Welcome back to Chainmail!
Oh boy, what a couple of weeks it’s been in Sacramento. Let’s recap, for those who may have forgotten a few things.
- Draft time! The Kings selected 22-year old point guard Davion Mitchell 9th overall, as well as center Neemias Queta in the second round. Queta recently signed a two-way deal to take his spot alongside Louis King.
- Buddy Hield is a Laker! Oh, wait, no he’s not! The Kings and the Lakers were thiiiiiiiiiiis close to a deal which would have sent Hield to LA in exchange for Kyle Kuzma, Montrezl Harrell and a first round pick, but the Wizards swooped in and stole the package from Sacramento in the Russell Westbrook trade.
- RICHAUN HOLMES IS BACK IN SACRAMENTO! Even better? His contract is entirely reasonable. Hell, he’s getting paid less than Kelly Olynyk.
- The Kings also re-signed Moe Harkless and Terence Davis…which…yay?
- Aside from Holmes and Queta, Monte McNair added two additional centers to the Kings roster, singing former fan favorite Alex Len to a two-year deal, as well as trading Delon Wright for Tristan Thompson 39 weeks after the deal was first reported.
- The California Classic ended with the Kings at 0-2, but the record was less important than Davion Mitchell’s clear talent. The kid can score and defend at a high level. Emanuel Terry was also impressive, while Robert Woodard and Jahmi’us Ramsey were, uh, turrible. The Kings kick off their Vegas League Summer League run tonight at 7:00 pm.
- Ben Simmons and Pascal Siakam are both reportedly targets of Sacramento’s front office, which comes as no surprise to anyone who has paid attention to the Kings for the last year.
Now, get to asking, so we can get to answering!
Straight up: Starting at the trade deadline, what grade would you give the front office? You can do letter grades, stars, 1-10, 1-100, or create an entirely new metric that no one will understand, and will likely be the thing that takes you down.
1-100.
In other words, a -99 score.
Don’t make me post the Chevy Chase gif.
I was told there wouldn’t be any math.
meth, then?
I’m all about meth.
It does help with math………………………….initially
“I was told there would be no MOOOOON RIVERRRRRR”
Is this like Uber, where if you get 4 stars, you’re fired?
I’d settle for the team having two stars.
Michelin’d!
My Lyft driver (Portland, a few years ago) told me as the cops were pulling us over that he had a warrant for his arrest.
They made him do the sobriety test (walking, etc.) and he passed. Apparently he was drowsy and started swerving while we were driving. (I was drowsy too, so I didn’t notice until I heard the sirens.)
I think it’s kind of like that.
When I drove for Uber, I got my first one star review after about a couple months. Why were they upset?
They were ransacking the car looking for drugs and I told them to knock it off.
I also had a guy try to jump out on the freeway once. I had to tell that story every time a passenger asked why the child locks were on, which ended up being every single time.
Mailbag question:
What does Will think is the plot of Ladybird? He hasn’t seen it, but has seen several GIFs of it. I’d like to compare the plot that has formed in his mind with the actual movie plot.
(I’m guessing he imagines it as a cross between Terms of Endearment, and Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby…?)
I have no issues with double posting Lady Bird GIFs. 🙂
That’s insane man. I thought about starting Uber for the first time to make some side money, but the way the average human being is today, I figured it’s not worth the potential risk to my health and safety.
It’s not, and you’ll likely only make a marginal profit if any after you factor in increased gas, maintenance, and possibly even having to upgrade your insurance plan.
95% of people were perfectly fine, even pleasant. The other 5%, though, I don’t think I’ll ever forget.
40 – Would have been 50 before the TT trade, no big moves but no bad moves either.
Now that the FA dust has settled a bit, do you see see Buddy and/or Marv still on the roster by opening night?
Can anyone make a reasonable stab at trying to understand what Monte McNair is trying to do with this roster to date? I can’t seem to find any optimistic logic way to spin it.
Well, there’s your problem. There’s no such thing as “optimistic logic.” In order to have meaning, logic must remain as pure as possible, and not have arbitrary spin imposed upon it.
Coffee seems to have kicked in.
Ok let’s just run with logic then. I say optimistic logic because surely that’s how Monte is trying to operate. Just trying to see it through his eyes and how it makes sense for a better future.
Last year was indicative that Monte had a plan, but Vivek came in and smashed all that.
1st) Monte preached a “transition year” all year and I believe at the start of the season it very much was. Giving up Bogi for nothing was a dumb, but tank move. Replacing Len and Bazemore who had success and brought wins with Whiteside and GR3 seemed like tank moves.
2) Then when the 10th seed was in reach, Vivek trashed the transition year and told Monte to go for it, taking Buddy and Barnes off the market and using assets to acquire Delon and TD.
And now Vivek is back in full swing leveraging more we’ll have to give up to the Sixers or Raptors by leaking this info.
Eh, I’m mostly off the “VIvEk Is RuIniNG EvErYtHiNg” train of thought. Monte’s a big boy. Vlade was a big boy, too. And if Vivek truly is hoping for a big move, how does that make him any different than 95% of TKH, exactly?
Monte’s stated plan all along was flexibility in the purpose of making big moves when the time was right. Pretty much everything he has done in the last year has lined up with that. Wright was acquired on the cheap and then flipped for an expiring contract at a position of greater need. Whiteside and GR3 were minimum deals, easily discarded. TD was a low-risk, high-reward acquisition and just got re-signed to another team-friendly, easily moved/discarded contract. Buddy and Barnes were not traded because, if the rumblings were accurate, other teams were offering crappy deals for them and Monte didn’t want to sell too low.
From my point of view, Monte’s moves have all been in line with his publicly stated vision for how he wants to run things. I may not agree with all the moves (esp. TT), but they make sense given everything he’s said. The “ViVeK is MEdDliNg!” crowd is making a big assumption: That Monte would obviously have gone “full tank” were it not for his meddling owner. But Monte has never given any real indication he is pro-full-tank… at all. Whether we like it or not, he seems to want to build the team up without tearing it all down first. The Process, this is not. We’ll see if it works.
Right, it’s hard to imagine that tanking wouldn’t have come up during the interview process. So to believe the ‘Vivek’s constantly meddling narrative’ you’d have to believe that Monte discussed his pro-tanking plans during the interview, Vivek hired him based on that, then less than a year later, changed his mind and instructed him to abort his approach.
To me, the much more likely scenario (Occam’s razor) is that Vivek simply hired the guy who told him that we didn’t need an all-out tank. But I think folks wanted really badly for Monte to ride into town as the franchise-savior savant GM. Which, I understand, because I wanted it too. It’s easier to still believe that and just cast Vivek as the villain. Otherwise, it’s just depressing.
None of this is to defend Vivek, because if Monte was hired primarily because he sold Vivek on the notion of re-building on the fly, that implies that he may not have been hired based purely on qualifications alone. One of the other candidates may have been the better one, but was not hired due to being pro-tank. That’s not to say that Monte’s approach precludes him from also having been the best candidate, but it is something that concerns me now. For that matter, Vivek’s entire tenure on the basketball side of things is concerning.
A successful GM-ship (?) requires a basic level of agreement with ownership about how the team should be constructed and run–it is the owner’s money, after all. It’s pretty clear by now that Vivek doesn’t like the idea of a full-blown, Hinkie-esque tank. Therefore, hiring a GM who strongly believed a Hinkie-tank was called for would not have been a good move. There has to be some kind of synergy between ownership and the FO, as much as we’d like to just forget ownership exists. The jury is out on Monte’s build-not-break approach, but given that most of the good teams in the league did NOT employ a Process to reach their current level, it would be wrong to say that pure, unabashed tanking is an inherently superior way to build a winner than Monte’s way. Execution makes all the difference. Time will tell.
The Vivek is meddling crowd is assuming because credible reporters are reporting that he is meddling. Jason Anderson today and many reports during last year’s trade deadline. It’s not just assumptions.
Also, Monte is a big boy and Vlade was a bigger boy, and Petey D was a smaller boy, but when your employer wants something, you’re gonna do it… If you don’t think an owner has the final say then James Dolan from 2000-2020 says otherwise.
We know the kings are targeting Simmons and Siakam (with the floated Lillard rumor as well). Assuming the kings don’t trade Fox, Mitchell or Haliburton, what’s your nightmare trade scenario? Paying too much for Siakam? Going after a guy that has the optics of a big swing but misses the point target? Actually trading Fox for LIllard?
Siakam could turn into a nightmare. Late 20 something Eastern Conference All Stars have a been one hit wonders in the past.
Is Mitchell really the BPA at #9 ? (Based on his performance in summer league, and compare to other draftees picked later than him)
As picking Mitchell seriously affect the trade to be made (i.e. trading away Wright to create open space for Mitchell)
I’d like to hear Jerry Reynold’s reaction to the selection of Davion. He spoke glowingly of Davion’s abilities on at least two different podcast episodes.
He was definitely optimistic about Mitchell’s chances to become a solid NBA player, despite the physical limitations. If I recall correctly, it was about then that he said that “you can always trade talent.”
He wasn’t my ideal choice, but that was mainly out of positional need. I think that once the lineups start to take shape, and he can settle in as a featured bench guy, he’ll really begin to show that he belongs. He’ll be playing alongside guys that will allow him to better find his role in the offense. His defense, I suspect, will take care of itself, with the only issue being difficulty dealing with taller, longer players shooting over him. He definitely shows great instincts and effort in staying in front of his man, which is half the battle.
I feel the same. Am especially excited about his defense.
Though in the first game, even though he produced some nice stats it looked at times like some defenders gave him trouble and he found some difficulty dribbling around them or getting a shot off.
Agreed, but as the only lotto guy on the floor, he had a target on his back for defenders. He’ll always have the size issue, but I don’t think that he’ll ever be a featured part of an offense, and he seems adept at passing out of traps and double-teams.
I imagine him as a much shorter Doug Christie-type, in that he can defend like crazy, run the offense from time to time, and pile up points when the situation calls for it. He seems like a sharp young man, and I like his chances to learn and get better in all facets of the game.
Yeah, I think the deciding factor on Mitchell is going to be his shooting, and secondarily his playmaking. Doug was never a great shooter, but he was so rangy and a plus playmaker at his position, so he was adding on both ends of the floor. Mitchell might be as good or possibly even a better on ball defender, but his size is going to limit his defensive impact to mostly point guards. That being said, if he can be a reliably average shooter and a competent point guard, he’ll carve out a nice career. Right now, I see him as what Corey Joseph was supposed to be. Not to say that’s his ceiling at all, but I don’t think that’s unreasonable over his first season or two.
That was the thing about DC, he was such a superb athlete that he could have been, on a team that had fewer scorers, a 20 ppg guy, and that’s in context with 3PFG being much less of a factor than it is now. I don’t think that Mitchell is in his class athletically, but he is still very athletic. A ton of bounce and quickness that he seems to already have a handle on utilizing.
Mitchell seems to have excellent instincts on both ends, and if used properly, could be an important piece who can be plugged in for many situations.
So, probably not this year, but maybe next season? Or even sooner?
Agree on his athleticism being good. I think his size is going to limit him some, but I don’t think he’s going to take a huge amount of time to develop. He also appears to be a lot stronger now than Doug ever was, so a different type of defender, which is not a bad thing.
My rule with rookies is if you don’t see it by the end of their second season of playing time, you probably won’t. I expect that he’ll be productive and he’ll absolutely be given an opportunity, and we’ll know pretty quickly this season if he’s good, and almost certainly by next season. The question for me is will he shoot and make plays well enough to be difference maker? I’m hopeful, but we’ll see.
My extended timeframe had more to do with the, ah, guidance he’ll be getting from the head coach, but I agree, other than the typical adjustment period rookies need to adapt to NBA speed, he feels like a guy who’ll be able to contribute sooner rather than later.
Zero disagreement from me on the coach.
You remember Doug was on his 4th team as King ! Took awhile !
I think he can eventually become Bobby Jackson with better defense. Which, at #9, is a solid get. I mean, if you re-rack Bobby’s draft class, he’s a top 10 pick.
Remember him stating as much as he liked Mitchell he would draft Moody ! Since BPA was close and need more important !
He had nothing but mostly good, sometimes glowing observations about “the little bitch”
Right…I remember before the draft, Jerry kept bringing up Davion’s name, unlike everyone else. I don’t think I heard anyone else talking about Davion until Jerry brought him up.
Just wish I could’ve seen Jerry’s reaction when the Kings selected the guy he was talking up! 😀
With the new report that Vivek is publicly Vivek-ing now and with Fox and this middling team not allowing us a top 5 pick in the near future IMO, what is your outlook on mortgaging the future and finally trading multiple future 1st rounders for that difference maker?
which report?
Jason Anderson in a Sacramento Bee article. Stated Vivek was putting pressure on the FO to make a trade for simmons or siakam.
Oh, OK. thought there was another one. thanks.
Along with 95% of the fan base. Is it “putting pressure,” or is it “giving the green light”? Do we know, really?
Vivek needs to go vivek himself.
If it’s the article from today, it just says:
Yeah, I don’t put a lot of weight behind the opinions of outsiders and what they think is happening.
Could it be an issue? Of course. But there’s not enough in that report for me to feel any level of concern.
Outside of TKH, there is a perception that Greg is already “feeling the heat” from Aykis to get more clicks.
I think that’s a couple of sources hoping the historic ineptitude of the Vivek era continues, and probably realizing it’s not likely to continue if McNair remains in charge.
If we took a straw poll around here of people who thought it was possible to resign Holmes with his EBRs, I’d bet it’s somewhere in the 65-75% range that would have said it’s not possible or likely.
I’m not a fan of Vivek, but I’m not sure he really meddles. What he hasn’t done was hire a GM and have that GM and a head coach on the same page. Say whatever you want about Walton, but there isn’t constant sourcing about the job, or not doing more accurately, Walton is doing.
Teams have gotten accustomed to the idea the Kings aren’t run well. It’s a benefit because multiple teams have benefitted from that dysfunction. Take that away because there’s a professional sitting in that chair, and you’re going to get frustrated people (agents and teams alike) as a result who are used to otherwise. And I’ve gotten the sense there was frustration that public pressure not creating panic is another part of all this.
McNair hasn’t overpaid a FA from his own team or another team’s, and he’s gotten reasonable value in trade along the way. He has one successful pick from the draft (so far– but I doubt anyone is going to claim Haliburton was a mistake at this point), and could have another. What’s the worst thing he’s been involved in? Not resigning Bogi. This is not how the Kings behaved under Divac or D’Alessandro.
Since Monte McNair has gotten here, he’s been getting heat from fans and media alike. He’s upset the apple cart because he has the audacity to believe his job is to help the Kings win games. And that’s just not the way things are supposed to work!
I didn’t think that Holmes was going to be re-signed, maybe a 20% chance at best. I guess we’ll never know what he would’ve been offered in the open market, but this wasn’t an overpay by any means.
If he’ll add some extra value by extending his game to the arc, it’ll go a long way to clearing out space for Len & Thompson to beat people up down low. He’s got four years, but his mechanics seem more than good enough to make it happen sooner rather than later.
Let it fly, sir!
Monte probably told Holmes’ agent to “Get fucked!”
Will the Kings win an NBA title in my lifetime (currently 39)?
I used to always think well the Browns are solid now, the Bills are solid now, and even the Cubs won a word series so why not us? But Vivek did not own any of those teams so you might need to wait for a miracle when you are in your 70s
The Browns are “solid” now? Solid?
Truly one of the greatest deliveries of a line in television history, particularly with the hair flip.
Yeah, I remember feeling similar about the Raiders in 2016. I can’t really say “solid” about a team until a couple consecutive playoff appearances.
Trust me, the hype makes me nervous.
Life expectancy:
In 1960, it was 69.84 years. Currently it’s at 78.99 (2021)
So I guess the younger generation has a bigger window for a championship in their lifetime…?
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life-expectancy
We took a bit of a hit on that metric last year, and 2021 is showing strong signs of doing the same. American exceptionalism!
If the Kings win a championship when I’m 79, that’ll be . . .
2072.
So, I’m not going to worry, in light of today’s IPCC report and everything else.
“When hell freezes over.”
Sounds about right for a Kings championship.
(joking aside, this is really depressing)
I don’t think we have to worry about anything freezing over anytime soon.
It’s that damned Twilight Zone episode: The Midnight Sun, but she was right the first time.
Well I’m about 30 years older than you and I’ve made my peace that it won’t happen in mine. I’m hoping for at least two playoff appearances and that doesn’t include qualifying for the play in rounds. I’m doubtful…………..but hopeful.
If you live for 100 more years I’d put your chances at 1/16.
no
Realistically, how long is Luke’s leash this year? Is it playoffs or fire? I really need to never see him on the King’s sideline ever again.
Roster currently constructed without any trades, I bet the owner and FO is thinking play in tournament or fired.
If that’s the case, he should just be fired now. I suppose there is an outside chance they get to 10th worst, but even that seems a little unrealistic.
10th worst would be the 6 seed, and I’d take that.
They told us there would be meth!
Simmons or Siakam?
Are there any FA players left on the market worth Sacramento using the MLE on?
The Warriors, Clippers, and Kings (according to Jason Anderson) are shopping for Siakam and Simmons. Do the Kings have a better offer than those teams without including Fox or Haliburton? How likely is it that we see Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley on the kings to start the season?
This is a good question. I don’t see how the Kings even get close to the Warriors offer for either player without including Halliburton or Fox.
That, of course, depends on what the Warriors are willing to offer.
Accepting a first-rounder from Sacramento has generally been a pretty reliable way for a good team to power its way into a lottery pick. It’s basically money in the bank.
Offering first round picks and swaps usually is worth a lot to other teams. Take off any restrictions, even better.
I’d say the Warriors can offer a much better package if they want to but do they want to? Not sure they do. I think if it were between us and the Clippers, a couple lightly protected Kings first round picks are more valuable than anything the Clippers can offer. A Kings first is about the surest draft pick bet you can make.
Warriors package is a combination of picks, Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody. Steph, Klay and Dray aren’t on the table.
If I were the Sixers, I’d rather have Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley and multiple FRPs from Sac. I’d prefer Barnes for sure, but if I’m Sac I’m not giving up Barnes plus multiple FRPs.
Yeah I don’t know where Simmons is going to go but it seems like they are going to have to trade him and I don’t know that any team is actually offering anything better than what Sacramento can offer which is weird. In regards to a Warriors package, I think I’m just higher on Moody, Kuminga and Wiseman than others might be. I know they are young and really raw but there is a ton of talent there if they put it together. I might prefer that if I’m the Sixers even if it doesn’t totally fit their timeline.
Brodgon and a first is better than the Kings offer, in my opinion.
Eh I don’t know that I buy that with Brogdon’s injury issues. I would maintain that a first from the Kings is one of the most valuable assets in the league as long as the Kings aren’t the one making the pick.
If I’m the Warriors, I absolutely put Draymond on the table for Simmons.
And you’re not the Dubs any more than I am. LOL
We both know trading Dray from an optics and basketball standpoint are different things.
I don’t know how much Brogdon helps the Sixers either unless there’s more in that package. I think the Sixers are going to want a bigger wing to replace Simmons.
Cost is going to matter here also. I think the Kings can offer assets, and less cost to the Sixers in a way that the Dubs cant. And I don’t think Andrew Wiggins is better than Barnes but is alot more expensive.
We’ll see. It’s really about what the Sixers want at this point. And we’ll find that out when a deal gets done.
Agree that they’re comparable.
Yeah, I don’t follow Warriors fans enough to know how this would go, but plugging in a younger player, who is really better in multiple ways, into the exact same role seems like a big win on the floor. You also don’t need him to be the second best player on the floor, or really even know how to shoot the ball, to win with him.
Frankly, I don’t know if optics are much of a reason, just that it’s possible given Dray’s role on those 5 Finals teams. I think it’s a fundamental one: It’s a lateral move at best. Dubs were 4th in eFG% allowed last year. Dray had the best DRtg of anyone on that team.
The Sixers issues seem alot closer to being offensive than defensive. And I don’t see how Dray helps them that much more than Simmons if at all.
I don’t think this is as straight forward as you are presenting. The idea is to make this a Finals team again and win another ring or two. I don’t see how they accomplish that removing Dray out of the equation and swapping him for Ben Simmons.
If the Kings can’t acquire Simmons or Siakam, what other players might they be able to realistically acquire who might help the team? Salary dump for assets deals (like the Hield to Lakers deal) count too.
If things go decently for the Suns, Lakers, Clippers, and Warriors, and the Kings take this roster to the season, will the Kings even win a division game this year?
Absolutely.
The last game of the season will see the Lakers rest LeBron, AD, Melo, and Westbrook.
Yeah, they’ll need naps.
“That’s the wording I was looking for. ‘Naps’!”
I mean, Kawhi basically isn’t going to play this year until very late in the season so I would think the Kings would take a couple games off of the Clippers.
With the current roster, I’m already predicting the Kings will finish no better than 10 games behind all the teams in the Pacific Division, and might even say it’s closer to 20 than 10. I could easily see the other 4 teams hitting 50 wins while the Kings are closer to 30.
Recent reports say that Vivek is applying more pressure to win now on the front office. Realistically, what are the chances given their financial situation and public perception that they’d fire Luke, Monte, or both if the Kings don’t make the playoffs?
It would be amusing to fire the GM when they’re reportedly giving the GM very little actual control over personnel decisions.
A billionaire can do whatever they want, but I can’t imagine giving the GM the bum’s rush alongside the head coach that he didn’t hire makes sense to anyone.
McNair’s clock is certainly running, but his grade is inextricably tied to Luke Walton’s coaching abilities, and that is a Himalayan-sized hurdle.
I would be surprised if the bar was playoffs or he’s fired. I do think Monte’s seat’s going to get pretty warm if they don’t win any more games this season, especially if they don’t make any major moves in the offseason or at the deadline.
For shits and giggles, what moves would Vlade have made all this time that McNair has been working, had he not been let go? What trades would he have made and what draft selection would he have made?
Would the team be worse? Better? The same? Contraction’d?
I’d like to see this Q answered lol.
This is a 55-gallon drum of worms that you’re opening.
WWVD
This is a great question that I’m not sure I want to try and answer.
Put off your thinking cap!
I’d bet Sengun would have been the pick, because reasons.
Nah, Vlade’s primary kink were elite athletes from prestige schools. Probably Isaiah Jackson.
He never really showed any special insight on or preference for Euros.
Oh, yeah? Give one example! That’s right, you’ve got NOTHING!
Pretty sure Doncic is a Burmese name, so no funny business.
Another vote for answering that one. I think Vlade passes on Halliburton because he did the opposite of everything right.
That wouldn’t have been surprising. You’re talking about an average intellect that thinks it’s much sharper than it is, with the nagging doubt of knowing that it’s not true. He’d see Halliburton falling, and respond with, “do the smart guys know something that I don’t?”
Then he’d select Papagiannis’ cousin with one leg.
oh, the 5/5 guy?
What’s a fair trade for the following? Not what is most advantageous for the Kings or the other franchise, but what is a fair for both sides
:
Ben Simmons
Siakam
Ingram
I looked over at the Sixers fan site. Man, some of the trades they are suggesting. Halliburton, Barnes, Mitchell and three first round draft picks.
I mean, they’re Sixers fans and that’s basically what Morey is asking for in every reported deal so I’m not shocked. Plus, the Kings are dumb so them overpaying wouldn’t be that surprising.
I’m old enough to remember when the Kings weren’t resigning Holmes using his EBRs so…..I doubt the Kings would come anywhere near that package.
Here’s one for you FKC: Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley and the ’22 & ’24 FRPs for Simmons. Or, Harrison Barnes, Bagley and the ’22 FRP. Which is your preference?
Mine is definitely keeping Barnes.
Mine is too. He played really well last year and was an honest to goodness positive asset. At this point, with the Kings chosen direction at this moment, those FRP’s are probably in the 10-14 range and what exactly is that getting this franchise in the long run? I’d much rather move the picks and make them top-1 or top-3 protected just to avoid complete disaster.
I think the Kings are waiting for Morey’s price to come back to planet Earf and they think either offer is the best offer Morey gets. Frankly, I think that’s a good bet. I don’t think what the Dubs can realistically offer tops that.
I suppose if the Sixers really love Kuminga and believe in him then that probably tops the Kings offer just based on price. Butr that’s the only way I can see that.
Yeah I think you may be right in terms of the best offer Morey gets. I am curious what his tolerance is for just running it back with Simmons. It seems like that relationship is toast but he also seems like the kind of guy who will do literally anything to rebuild value from a distressed asset.
Simmons wants out, Rivers didn’t defend Simmons and Embiid threw him under the bus. Get the best deal you can and move on.
I’m old enough to remember when Morey had a deadline in December 2013 once to trade Omer Asik after the Rockets acquired Dwight Howard that summer. He ended up getting a FRP and Trevor Ariza in the offseason. Which was less than what he reportedly turned down at the deadline, and teams forced him to blink on his December deadline by offering him bubkus.
Morey isn’t fooling the league, he’s certainly not fooling McNair, Wilcox, Catanella, e.t.c etc. They know how these stories end. It’s more about whether Morey can keep his own house happy and I’m guessing he won’t be able to if the situation is that untenable. He can’t overpower Doc Rivers and Joel Embiid.
If you’re young enough to remember all this shit then you’re young enough that remembering this isn’t a big deal. For some of us though…….it’s not pretty.
I’d take what the Warriors have over what the Kings would offer.
I don’t doubt this. In fact, I’d be surprised if you didn’t think this.
For most of the last 15 years, I’d generally have been right!
2012 ain’t walking back in that door, Spackler!
Seriously?!?!?!?!?!
That’s hilarious. I’d hesitate on that package for 2008 Lebron James, and that’s only because of the sheer exodus of talent you’re losing in that scenario. Lebron is worth that, but is putting Lebton in a bad spot a good idea? No.
Ben Simmons is not a top 10 player to ever play the game.
We’d probably have to give up the entire roster and a bunch of picks in order to get all three of those guys.
What will it take for the downvote button to be reinstituted?
I kind of liked the aspect where someone was taking time out of their day to downvote everything. My presumption is that this wasted time likely prevented them doing something even dumber that may have had actual consequences.
It’s like giving an idiot a Chinese finger trap.
You never know what you’re missing until it’s gone. I want the downvote back!
It made the comment section more interesting for some reason.
Indeed.
because a comment’s ratio is its going ‘price’ in the marketplace of ideas, baby!!!!
But this is 2021. And the estrogen-fueled man-child need his “safe space”. It is a pathetic commentary on what has happened to men, whiny babies are offended and their feelings are justification for being wronged. It never used to be this way. God help us. I am old enough to remember when men were men. Men have become WEAK AF that a red arrow sends them into an emotional spiral and those that cater to this weakness are equally weak and estrogen fueled.
Bring back the downvote!
Lighten up, Francis.
No.
Warren Oates’d.
Loved that guy. Wild Bunch. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia. Oh, the days of the Showcase Cinema.
Well, LOL. I’m definitely not a fan of polite society (not that I’ve ever been a part of it), and even less of a fan of political correctness. But, I don’t think that’s the main issue here.
If the downvote is a hassle to keep with little actual utility, those responsible for running this place are going to take it away. I thought it was funny as Ive said, but I don’t care enough to worry about what it says about our society on the whole. I certainly don’t think it’s worth hassling those running this place over, especially.
Thats fair but the reason the downvote was done away with (as far as I can tell) is because a bunch of whiny babies around here said “muh feeliings are hurt”, and the site operators capitulated to a bunch of whiny babies, which makes them one in the same.
Feeling offended is NOT evidence of an offense. Maybe you need to toughen up and build up some emotional resilience and strength. Spirited debate is what makes a sites like this great, and spirited debate should include the ability to disagree with a downvote. It is a no-brainer.
I say this a someone who used to get downvoted all the time. I don’t mind, maybe I need to tailor my approach or accept I have an outlier opinion. All this is obvious to anyone who is MAN but I guess being a MAN is out of fashion in 2021.
Maybe I should eat more soy products and watch more soap operas, then I will. be like ” the red arrow is evil, please banish it forever!!!”
Does someone who complains for 4 paragraphs straight about the disappearance of a downvote button and how it indicates an emasculation of American society count as one of these whiny babies?
4 paragraphs? Are you familiar with my posts? Four paragraphs is just me warming up. I do not have ADD like 75-90% of society, the numbed and dulled masses, I can formulate thoughts and opinons and elaborate upon them for 500-1000 words or more.
I spit out content like water out of fire hose.
I am not trying to be verbose for the sake of it , but it is often what is required to conveyed the essence of my perspective.
Referring to “four paragraphs” as excessive reflects more on you than me, from my perspective I barely said anything, I was concise.
To answer your question I am not a whiny baby bc all I am doing is registering an opinion against those who I perceive as whiny babies, the forum members who felt offended their posts were downvoted and those site operators who capitulated to the whiny babies.
I am anti whiny babies. I am pro mature individuals.
I get downvoted all the time. I don’t mind it. I kind of like it because the conventional sentiment is almost always WRONG. It is the nature of sport and fandom to disagree. Why is disagreement, valid or not perceived, as intolerable as unacceptable?
It is only the WEAK and insecure person who takes issue with getting a red arrow. Weakness, pure weakness.
And this is why bringing back the red arrow is a good idea, because men need to be men, to build emotional resilience and strenght. I am pro men and what I am advocating for is for YOUR own good.
Here, here.
Write as much or little as you want. Do what it takes to get your point across.
Most importantly, keep in mind that we all need an editor from time to time.
I agree with the basic sentiment, although the ability to think for oneself, take positions contrary to prevailing views, and not be deterred by criticism are hardly the exclusive province of men.
We all have flaws, and I more than most. But I definitely don’t hate women or other non-male people, or assume that my own gender, over which I have no control, makes me superior or inferior to anyone else.
The women in my life are strong, smart, and not whiners in the least. I’m better for having them in my life precisely because they often think differently than I.
It could be said that I don’t lack for confidence in my own opinions, but so much credit for that is because I’ve had strong, opinionated women in my life, to challenge me, and force me to be smarter and better in those opinions.
Summarily dismissing the value of over half of the people on the planet because of perceived weakness which you ascribe to them is a mistake, and indicates more weakness than you could ever admit.
Keep posting, I like reading your thoughts, whether I agree or not. You’re only shorting yourself with your attitudes beyond basketball.
Ignoring the rest of Sims’ comment as those are his personal thoughts, I would gladly echo the sentiments of his first and last paragraphs.
Additionally, I would say that Trevor Noah said something that made alot of sense to me in a standup a few years ago. He said basically that ‘pussy’ is often used in a pejorative sense and shouldn’t be. That ‘the pussy’ is in fact powerful and should never be assumed as weak.
Feminization of men might be an issue in today’s world, or it might not be. But I don’t think downvoting has anything to do with that, and last I checked trolling (which I think that downvoting issue is) has little to do with gender and much to do with just simply screwing with people. Men and women alike troll.
I thought the downvoting thing was funny and I think it’s silly that it is no longer there. That is, unless it’s a big hassle to those administrating the site and then it’s not worth having. It isn’t worth arguing about whether men should be men, and so forth. That’s an useful discussion to have, I don’t think TKH is the place for that discussion.
Like Sims said, keep posting. I appreciate the passion and takes, regardless of whether I agree. Just don’t waste your time on gender roles here, please.
For God’s sake, please bring back the downvote button. I need to use it immediately.
And 9 “paragraphs” as to why they’re not whining.
What is wrong with 9 paragraphs, the ability to think and express ones thoughts? Why is that a negative?
All depends on the thoughts and who is thinking them.
Unfortunately, that’s the problem today in a nutshell, down votes or no down votes.
I’d argue it’s a problem that’s always existed, we just see it more frequently today because of ease of access.
Trust me on this: 9 paragraphs is much better than 1 paragraph that runs 5 pages.
I was under the impression that someone(s) was trolling…just downvoting every comment without even reading the comments they were downvoting.
I might even guess that some bitter person from StR was coming here and doing that.
So it possibly wasn’t giving a true indication of what was being downvoted based on the merits (demerits?) of what people were writing.
I know, they’re so weak these days, they sit on their flabby butts and spend time typing whiny replies on Internet comment boards to people they don’t even know. They really need to toughen up and be men again.
My butt is not flabby, speak for yourself. And my motivation to comment here is because I love the Kings. I have been a fan since forver. Most of my comments are not directed at other members. Look at my history, I do not reply to many other members. Most of my posts are just my perspective on the status of the team.
I am not here to be condescending to other Kings fans, but I do think the decision to do away with the downvote was pathetic and it reflects on the feminization of society, something that real men should resist and reject.
Are you absolutely sure you know that’s the reason the downvote was removed?
Absolutely?
Do MEN talk about their butts?
Oh, OK. It’s probably just that.
Thanks for highlighting the key excerpt of his entire series of posts.
You keep implying (actually directly stating) that toughness = man, and weakness = woman. This says a lot more about you than it does the people whose actions you are criticizing. I’ve upvoted your contributions before, but not this time.
It’s hilarious that Vivek is demanding some huge move from Monte like now it’s time for Kings to become a contender. Reminds me of my old boss who used to just demand we get new business like we could just snap our fingers and bring them in. Vivek has no awareness that his ineptitude and ego have crippled the team for a decade
my bosses:
(Makes us work a huge amount of overtime.)
….”Why are we way over budget??? FIX THIS!!!!”
While I agree, the “league sources” suggesting this are probably the Sixers and Raptors trying to drive up the price.
“The leads are weak!“
I wonder if Vivek is like Michael Scott in the work place.
I’d prefer Michael Scott as the owner.
You say that, but…
Do you believe the Kings will ever make the playoffs while Vivek is the controlling owner of this franchise? If so, what year would you guess that would happen?
I suppose there is a chance. But I dislike the dude so much part of me doesn’t want the team to make the playoffs until he is gone.
The schadenfreude of it all is strong in me I will admit. Vivek is so bad at this “managing a basketball organization” thing that I want him to win a medal for his failure. I also think at this point the organization (not the fans of course) deserves to have the longest playoff drought in the NBA history. I think we’re going to get there anyway but they’ve sure earned it.
Yes, new owners eff up. He certainly an NBA owner 1.0 in that regard. Screwed up, screwed up again, doubled down on the screw up and now trying to unbury his franchise. If he shows some patience here I’m going to say Yes he has learned.
no
Do you think Grant Napear EVER gets invited back for a “Thank You Grant” game?
My head just exploded.
RICE. Rest, ice, compression, elevation.
No no no
Relax and eat rice
I like rice
Can I please get some more rice?
Everybody loves rice!
If anyone has questions about other acronyms, I’ll be in the kitchen making rice.
I’m kind of surprised he hasn’t popped up as a guest commentator on Fox News yet.
https://twitter.com/WillofThaPeople/status/1424740448757719054?s=20
Does he have to divest because Wynn is a casino/gambling operation? It’s got to be something else, given how much air time is being allowed to talk about point spreads and prop bets. Those segments are fucking gross, and even if the NBA is making a pile from the partnership, highlighting the aspect of the game that appeals most to degenerates with impulse issues is an awful look.
Partnering with entities whose sole aim is to separate your customers from their money, frequently to the point of financial ruin? It ain’t working for me.
Ten-to-one odds that it gets even worse going forward.
Is it better to have people lose money gambling on un-rigged sports or gambling on rigged Wells Fargo/Exxon/Tesla stocks and hedge funds?
Bitcoin’d
Wall Street is the biggest casino on Earth, and makes no effort to disguise the fact that the game is completely rigged.
As Steve Martin put it:
“You.. can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You say.. “Steve.. how can I be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes?” First… get a million dollars.”
Based on the 12 episodes of the Whistleblower podcast series, I’m not comfortable with saying the NBA isn’t rigged.
Ask Evander Kane this question.
Question for kings herald staff:
now that shaq is no longer a minority owner will the curse be lifted and see the kings finally get better and win more that 35 games? How much better do you feel now that shaq isn’t associated with the sacramento Kings?
Would you rather…
Siakam for Buddy/Bagley OR Simmons for Fox? Why? Would you consider doing both deals at all and creating a major shakeup?
I’d do the first one because it immediately solves a couple of problems, assuming that Siakam can fully recover from his labrum surgery.
The second one, in my mind, creates a problem, because there is just too much potential for Simmons to remain stuck in his hole. And I honestly believe that when all is said and done, Fox will have had the better career. Fox still appears to be very much on the upswing with his potential, whereas Simmons, barring some kind of revelation with his shooting, may be as good as he’s ever going to be. That is, of course, a pretty good place, but shooting is just too damned fundamental to the game for it to be fully compensated by other aspects.
I’d do either as long as Simmons is happy with being in Sac. I like Fox but he ain’t exactly Swipin many wins.
Prefer first. Kings need Siakem more than Simmonds. Fox is rising, Simmonds has flattened. and BS simply cannot nor will not shoot the ball.
Who was your guy at #9, was Mitchell on your radar, and how do you feel about the pick?
How I feel about the pick:
Do you even listen to the Pod? Jerry wanted Davion all the way and never veered from that preference. The other guys were Wagner and Moody IIRC, Sengun too.
The mailbag guys are not necessarily the podcast guys.
Fair point, I know Tony and Jerry, but the other guys I have not differentiated as much. There is a Brendan and a Bryan (Kings Pulse), and a Tim Maxwell, the latter person I do not think I have not heard on any podcast.
That is not true ! He stated he liked Mitchell as BPA but would draft Moody since it was close and need for wing greater !
When did Jerry say he would draft Moody over Mitchell? Cite the episode if you can.
I think it was the last one right before the draft (might’ve been on Draft Eve..?)
Wright for Thompson: Great trade, or greatest trade?
“Ah, little lad, you’re starin’ at my fingers. Would you like me to tell you the little story of Right Hand-Left Hand – the story of good and evil? [He raises his left hand] T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N! It was with this left hand that old brother Cain struck the blow that laid his brother low. [He raises his right hand] W-R-I-G-H-T. You see these fingers, dear hearts? These fingers has veins that run straight to the soul of man. The right hand, friends! The hand of love! Now watch and I’ll show you the story of life. These fingers, dear hearts, is always a-warrin’ and a-tuggin’, one agin the other. Now, watch ’em. Ol’ brother Left Hand. Left hand, he’s a-fightin’. And it looks like WRIGHT’s a goner. But wait a minute, wait a minute! Hot dog! WRIGHT’s a winnin’? Yes, siree. It’s WRIGHT that won, and ol’ Left Hand THOMPSON is down for the count!”
(For Biegler)
Do nothing for Robby. He is far too busy retweeting anything he can find having to do with The Sopranos.
!!!!
Truth be told, I actually watched Do The Right Thing before I ever saw Night Of The Hunter. So it wasn’t until I saw both that I put two and two together.
Radio Raheem was a classic films cinephile, I guess!
Besides TKH, how would you rank the top three local Kings coverage options and the top three national sports/NBA coverage options for Kings topics?
Who has the cooler name: Chimezie Metu or Neemias Queta, and which one of them should be The Pizza Guy for 2021-2022?
Well, since it’s Pizza Guys, just get them both.
Brilliant, and also…yeah! Why not??
MAKE IT HAPPEN, PIZZA GUYS!
both
Ok, let’s say this is the team that starts the season. I don’t think it will be, but for now..
PG: Fox, Off Day
SG: Hali, Buddy, Davis
SF: Moe, Davis
PF: Barnes, Bagley
C: Holmes, TT, Len
EOB
Almost forces a 3 guard lineup most of the time. Someone has to take other teams SF. PF is a bad thing unless Bagley suddenly gets better.
Is that a western conference playoff team? I don’t think so, but at this point what can be done?
As of right now, I think it’s Fox, Hali, Buddy, Barnes and Holmes starting. Walton doesn’t have the balls to bring Buddy off the bench.
My guess is Fox, Buddy, Barnes, Bagley, Holmes….because Luke likes consistency (and has arguably been the worst coach in the NBA during his 5 year head coaching career).
This is my fear and what I think is most likely to happen.
I think you can run 3 guards and TT, Holmes out there. Holmes can guard most 4’s and TT can guard Centers.
Thompson is bad to awful in most aspects. His only strength is rebounding & that doesn’t make up for his flaws. I hope he doesn’t play a lot. The Wright-Thompson trade didn’t make sense to me b/c of Thompson’s flaws, Wright being a good player & the trade creating a glut of bigs.
In what year will the Kings begin a season with an adequate number of small forwards?
’22
.
.
.
*2122
Despite having one of the Top 10 PGs in the entire league, McNair has picked two point guards with the first round pick in two consecutive drafts. I understand this has something to do with picking BPA (and man, Mitchell looks GOOOOOD), and also that Tyrese was versatile enough to play the 1 or 2, but if you zoom out, you just might think that Davion Mitchell is the Darren Collison to Fox’s Chris Paul.
Fox isn’t a prototypical PG to build around given his lack of shooting and score first mentality. Mitchell and Tyrese, however, are exactly the kind of switchable two-way players that McNair seems to like and fit well into their respective roles. Are we building toward a future where McNair takes the team’s best asset (Fox), replaces him with more prototypical guards (Hali and Mitchell), so that he can ultimately make a trade to fill the team’s most glaring void (an All-Star caliber forward ala Simmons, Siakam, or Brown)?
I’m not sure I could offer a more concise description of a prototypical point guard than this. If these qualities aren’t those of a point guard, then Steve Nash and Chris Paul aren’t point guards, either.
I think it’s awkwardly worded. I believe he’s saying that Fox doesn’t shoot well and does have a score first mentality.
Game thread? Mitchell is making Bouknight cry on every possession. We got a mean, mean man in Sactown.
OT First Qtr Summer League Summary In A Sentence:
Bobby Jackson has the entire team playing aggressive defense, mixing up
coverages, led by Mr. Mitchell who has been inside the uniform of Bouknight and anyone else close to him.
Wish I could watch it!
Sounds delicious.
Mitchell always knows where to be. Incredible IQ and awareness at all times on the defensive end. And once he’s on you, that man is a DOGGGGG…
Literally every possession. Bouknight just wants to take his ball and go home now.
Is he having an Off-Night?
I think he’s crying.
What channel is it on? All four ESPNs that I’m stuck with are in commercial right now.
Andy,
I am at the game. I believe it is on the NBA channels on cable and Direct TV. You may be able to watch it by going to NBA.com and following the links to the Summer League. Good hunting!
I appreciate the info! Still, couldn’t you just post what’s going on every ten seconds or so? I like that personal touch.
Holy cow, the defense that’s going on in this game!
2Qtr Summary in a Sentence:
Metu and Cueta playing 4 and 5 both showing their fluid athleticism and out on the arc pressing the defense against the Hornets while Mitchell is very impressive with his passing.
Kings 31-27 at the half. Score looks like a high school game.
Mitchell only has 4 pts at the half but had the equivalent of like a 10-12 pt half. I counted at least 6-7 plays where he was the main cause of a turnover or directly stopped what would have been a two for Charlotte. If he can keep even half of this intensity and def level once the season starts it will pay big dividends.
Andy Sims In Play Update:
Four 24 second violations forced by the Kings at 4:41 left in the 3rd Qtr.
That’s pretty good! Both the update and the defensive effort!
This looks like the first season under Vivek that the team will operate over the cap. Does this mean anything and what do you think caused the shift in financial decision making? Did the change in minority ownership have a hand in this?
This is what it looks like. If Tyreke Hill was a CB…
https://twitter.com/James_HamNBCS/status/1424876859574132738
He’s like a tornado of fists and teeth.
You know you’ve played too much WoW when you hear Murkey and think “that was a good move for a Murloc”
3rd Quarter in a Sentence.
Kings 3rd Quarter defense changes uniforms to close out the quarter.
Metu should be the back up 4 this season. His style of play and effort should be nurtured by the Kings.
Spot on SuperS.
4th Qtr in a few Sentences:
Bouknight will have better nights, unfortunately for him so will Deveon Mitchell.
Kings force six 24 second violations in the game and Ramsey leads the Kings in scoring with 22 points.
Neemias show his athleticism chasing down a surging Bouknight and blocks his layup at the rim.
Bobby Jackson for Coach of the Year. D, D, and more D.
Kings win!! Everybody dance!
What are the chances the Kings use part of MLE on someone like Isaac Bonga?
Despite all the media talk, the Kings really did not make a big offseason move. Assuming the best case scenario, Davion Mitchell has a similar impact rookie season like Haliburton, where does that put the Kings in the standings?
Maybe 8th seed?
I don’t know if Thompson is going to be in Sacramento when the season starts, but if he is, he and Len provide actual interior defense, which hopefully will cut down on the layup drills opponents tend to run. The improvement down low should have a positive impact on the overall defense. Neither is a splashy acquisition, but they should provide the kind of presence that won’t be pushed around without consequences.
Haliburton already has great instincts, and I’ve got little doubt that he’ll be better and more consistent this season. Mitchell is going to absolutely wear people out when he’s in, and my hope is that having better defenders in the rotation will push Fox to consistently bear down on that end, and use his considerable powers for defensive evil. You throw Davis into that mix, and you have three absolute thoroughbreds with the athleticism to give offenses fits.
Barring any other substantial moves, I’d guess sixth seed is the ceiling here, but if the Kings manage that, Walton won’t still be the head coach. The man is a human speedbump. A lot of things would need to break Sacramento’s way, though, and I don’t know that I’d put any money on it.
Len should improve the defense, but Thompson isn’t a good defender. What Thompson could help is the rebounding. However, his weaknesses will likely make playing him detrimental to the Kings.
As for Mitchell, I’ll wait to judge him until the regular season. Even if he plays excellent defense, he probably won’t play enough to significantly improve the defense.
Bobby Marks said the Lakers deal would not have included the #22. Would you still have pulled the trigger on Hield for just Kuz and Harrell?
Yep. Clears out a guard, adds two 3/4s, and helps the cap. More flexibility, less Buddy being Buddy.
Can Davion Mitchell dunk a basketball/
I haven’t seen it…
What will be the kings starting line-up day 1 of the regular season?
Does Monte have the juice to tell Hali’s agent to “Get Fucked?”
Sorry stupid question.
Badge Legend