The Sacramento Kings announced that they have completed the trade to acquire Tristan Thompson. The Kings are sending Delon Wright to the Atlanta Hawks as part of the three-team trade.
There had been some speculation and rumors that the deal might have fallen apart, or that the final deal could be different than the initial reports, but from the Kings perspective the deal is going through without any changes.
It remains to be seen if this trade is a predecessor to other moves.
The trade sends away Wright, who was a versatile guard who could do a little bit of everything. But with De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton as the backcourt of the future, and with the Kings adding guard depth when they drafted Davion Mitchell, Wright became the odd man out.
Thompson is a rebounding specialist. He has a reputation for defense as well but his play has fallen off in that area in recent years. Thompson is entering the final year of his contract.
Oh joy
.
I have no idea why we take on a useless player like Thompson for a good player like Wright which we just used two 2nd rounders to acquire and on top of that he ADDS OVER 3,000,000 TO OUR CAP SPACE…even Vlade wouldn’t make this trade…a certified Disaster!! We could have got good value for Wright from somebody…as Monty says he is a value added kind of guy…this guy is worthless. I was hoping before it completed it would be part of another trade but nope…another Kangz production!!
I’m at a total loss of why Monte made this trade. Even if Len’s contract is a partial guarantee and Monte intends to make TT the backup C, whey even sign Len? This TT trade was “announced” before the Len signing. Odd indeed.
Ham gave his explanation for it in the last podcast, and whether you agree with the reasoning or not, I thought it made sense and I do like the idea of too many big bodies around the basket. Also although you can argue Wright is the more impactful defender, and better overall player, TT is more physically imposing, and could end up being just as impactful on winning as Wright. Meh…
I agree. After listening to Ham’s thoughts, I think it makes sense.
Kings put themselves in a position to trade say Buddy/Barnes and TT (an expiring) for a decent starter (the numbers may work out better for solid additional, like many of the upper trade target rumors for example). Give more options that Bagley or someone we want to keep, perhaps more attractive to opposing team in a trade (or at least give versatility in trade options) and are ready for the trade either before the season/all star break. Also TT is realtively reliable to play out an entire season, where as Len not so much, so can offer depth options when shit hits the fan, or when we need additional muscle when opposing teams are playing bruisers.
Does it move the needle, probably not, is it a trade to assist with future moves, appears to be.
Obviously we have to see the final result, but potentially a longer term Asset Management strategy (shorter term doesn’t make sense because increase in cap).
I guess there is no need if you assume 80 plus games from both Holmes and TT. But that seems like a rather impractical assumption.
Also gives different look type of big than Len. I think both of these guys are better than Damian Jones too for those that just want to promote him to the 3rd center.
We have very different definitions of what this phrase means. Passing on Luka is a certified disaster…making the Philly salary cap relief trade is a regular disaster.
This registers in the “Meh, don’t love it but doesn’t prolly change trajectory of anything either way type of disaster” for me
Agreed. Bad deal, but not big deal.
Balances the roster and he’s an expiring contract. He isn’t great, but we really don’t have a true 4 (outside of Bagley who is always injured and may be traded.)
I’m surprised. Why not announce it official yesterday? More interested by the timing than anything else.
Same. Why has this taken so long when the moving parts seem pretty simple?
Coulda been priority. The NBA FO has the transactions they want to process first and this was much lower on the to do list than the others waiting to be processed. And if none of the teams care, it doesn’t matter really.
I’m okay with it! GO KINGS!
So the Kings got screwed over by the Hawks twice in a calendar year. First they get Bogi for nothing, when the Kings could have had at a minimum Snell and two future 2nds. Now they get the cheaper, younger, and better player in Wright for TT? What gives?
But they don’t think they got screwed, and that is the issue for me
As they shouldn’t because they didnt. I’m not sure who we think Wright is, I mean he is a nice 3th guard on a competitive team and thats about it. Career 7ppg Career 45%shooter Career 35% 3pt shooter. We got him with 2 seconds for a reason. We traded a dude 5th in our depth chart 5p a dude 2nd and btw fills a whole in rebounding and toughness and length. Holmes struggled with foul trouble in many games has missed many games due to injury although not as much with the Kings Knock on wood. He is def not tall enough to handle the bigger centers in the NBA. We added 2 legit 7 footers with TT and Len who actually rebound and we’ll be better for it.
Uhh… hate to break it to you but TT isn’t a 7 footer. He’s 6’9″ which is shorter than Holmes.
Thanks for the correction, he is a great rebounder for his size
Wright was tied with Fox for the highest VORP on the team and 2nd on the team on the LEBRON metric. He was hands away the best perimeter defender on the Kings and one of the best impact players on the roster. The trade is a joke and goes to show how little our office understands analytics.
Because they didn’t get screwed? I mean, other than doing a trade, what was the purpose of taking on Snell and 2 2nd rounders for? I don’t quite get it.
I know Snell isn’t a great player, but he is a wing they could have played. And the two 2nd rounders are at least something in return for Bogi.
Wright is better than TT. They took on more money for the worse player, which doesn’t seem to make much sense. I know they drafted Mitchell (which is a thing all in itself) and a guard needed to go.
Just doesn’t seem like the best they could have gotten for Wright.
Snell was an expiring that would have cost them little, but would have received two 2nd rounders to thank for it. No, they’ve traded two 2nd rounders (the cost of Wright) for basically the ghost of TT. That is a four pick swing and TT in a calendar year. There is no way to spin that into a positive.
Snell was a 12 million expiring. Unless you’re the one cutting the checks, you can’t say that costs you little. If you’re in the FO, why would you make that deal? Why would you take that to your ownership? I didn’t realize you were playing with Monopoly money here.
Yeah, but those are 4 2nd round picks some of which the Kings already had. 2nd round picks are traded in these amounts all the time. It’s no big deal.
And I’m not saying this is a positive deal, I’m just saying it’s not much of a needle mover at all.
What gets me Nate, is the Kings had the ability to spend AND STAY over the cap by completing a S&T for Snell. That extra $12M is trade fodder that allows you to operate above the cap, like good teams do. Instead the Kings chose to dog paddle at the cap level and remain irrelevant.
A good team looks at Snells $12M expiring and see an opportunity to package it with others to add talent that takes you not only towards the tax line, but also the playoffs.
In this league you have to spend to win.
We agree you have to spend money, and spend money wisely. I just disagree that spending on Snell in that instance, even acknowledging that he was an expiring, was a good way to spend money.
Not matching from day one has been mostly about optics, not necessarily about basketball. You don’t know what another team would have done in this instance, but if this was another FO with a track record of success this isn’t generating the level of furor that the Bogi non-match has IMO. Despite the fact that the McNair FO hadn’t put out a team that hadn’t even played a game yet.
This group makes decisions, like ’em or not. Outside of drafting Tyrese Haliburton, I haven’t seen any decision made by the FO that wasn’t at least somewhat controversial in some way or another by a contingent of fans. Which is pretty common, I’ve found.
They also didn’t improve the team in their first season at the helm. As it stands, I don’t see any meaningful improvement or future cap flexibility so far this offseason either. I expect more movement, but the controversy is an exhausted subset of the fanbase, combined with not much movement that has the promise of either short or long term improvement.
So…..where’s the failure exactly? Were you expecting immediate improvement with a new management in charge? What were you expecting Carl? I’m curious on that one, actually.
Yes. In two offseasons and a deadline, I expect moves that would either improve the team in the short term (over the next season) the long term, or to create cap flexibility or add draft assets. Outside of two draft picks, one of which we don’t know about yet, I don’t think we’ve seen that. I do think we will see it this offseason.
I think we’re gonna wait until the trade deadline, and maybe next off-season before they’re able to extract meaningful value for Buddy in a trade. He’s the big domino, the only contract they want to part with that’s large enough to balance a major deal.
According to Ham, the Kings will have a ton of space to open up for Monte’s all-important third year, and it does check-out.
Good work if you can get it. If I didn’t mow the fairways for two years, that might be a problem.
You are not kidding?
If nothing happens soon, then that’s gonna be the narrative now, isn’t it (and Ham planting the seeds)?
“Wait until next year (again), then Monte has the space to work his magic.”
And this beleagured fanbase has no choice but to swallow that tripe.
Where the hell does a GM get a free pass for standing pat for two year, making only minor deals in the margins?
Monte had a full season to “evaluate” his position. Expectations were for him to start reshaping this bad team this offseason. He still has time, so I will withold judgement untl we know the final roster.
But it’s interesting that when we had no deals at the trade deadline last season, peoiple were saying that there are better chances to make trades in the offseason. And now the story is that we can better offload a contract the next tradeline?
Hope springs eternal, I guess.
You think the Snell deal wouldn’t be a good way to spend money, so what did you think of the Wright deal?
A deal to get a quality NBA player? At a very low, minimal cost at that.
Snell isn’t a quality NBA player? The cost difference between the two is $3.6 million over one season, plus two seconds. I’m not sure I see how Snell misses the bar and Wright clears it.
It’s quite convenient to ignore context when it suites you. Like, Snell was coming in a S&T for Bogdan Bogdanovic. Like Cory Joseph and 2 2nd’s was traded for Delon Wright. In an attempt at a playoff push. A playoff push you disagreed with.
It seems pretty clear to me you need to see the plan in advance. And that’s not how this works.
OK, sure, but this justification applies equally to the Wright deal last season, which led to the Thompson deal this season. With the Snell deal, you’re getting second round picks to take on the player and the salary, and Snell is actually productive. With the Wright deal, you’re giving away second round picks to take on a young guy with some promise and his salary. The worst of the three seems like the Thompson deal. You’ve already sent out the seconds and now you’re getting the worst player of the three and taking on his salary for what?
Are we still pretending that Cory Joseph wasn’t a part of this equation?
Didn’t realize that 28 years old was young. That standard certainly doesn’t apply to Buddy Hield.
Except you never had Snell to begin with, and you would have gotten 2 2nd’s so you could have gotten another Delon Wright maybe? Yippee!
And Thompson, like Wright, is an expiring contract. Which you couldn’t say about Wright for Joseph (who had a partial guarantee for 2.4 million that Detroit already waived).
So, yeah, I don’t really see exactly how these are apples for apples comparisons.
Detroit resigned Cory for more than the 2.4 million ! You do remember him destroying the Kings as Piston !
I think your splitting hairs with the whole second round picks. The kings will recoup those lost picks in trades
As long as TT doesn’t spend his whole season on IR, the impact is negligible, and if he never plays, still not really significant.
But that is speaking from within a vacuum. If he were a free agent signing, then fine, but he basically cost the Kings 2nd rounders, the higher trade value of a multi-positional guard in Wright (who did play), and $9.7M in cap space.
I don’t want to come across as sarcastic, and I concede your point. That said, I can remember Queta, Woodard, Ramsey, Guy, James, Frank (I forget his name out of Kansas), that’s about it. And even two zeros added together still equal nothing. We let Justin James go for nothing because he isn’t worth anything in trade. Oh Yeah! IT! Sure even Mr. irrelevant can pay off, but all-in-all mostly a nothing burger. I’m thinking this is a lot like DQ for DJ. DaQuan may have been the better player, and we can argue if he would have been more impactful, but in the end we’re analyzing deck chair arrangement.
…discussing window dressing?
So are you minimizing the 2nd rounds picks? For one, just because stars aren’t often taken in the second round doesn’t mean they don’t have their value in trades or packages that get you something better. Two, Nikola Jokic says hi. You just shouldn’t give up future assets unless you are getting better or dumping salary. Which is it in this case?
Again, I get your point, and your not wrong. I see it like losing a couple lottery tickets. I’m not gonna cry over my lost fortune when really they were probably worth as much as all the other lottery tickets I ever bought.
Outside of the draft, McNair has added better personnel to the Hawks than he has to the Kings.
that’s like shooting yourself in the foot twice and saying you got screwed over by the gun
perplexing.
I think this was made to protect against losing Holmes but by a lucky squeak, that worked out.
I do believe that this is a Monte mistake. I liked Wright.
TT hopefully will be on the move.
and Kings have Damian Jones who I also like better than TT.
TT costs more, does not add any marginal value, clogs the 5 spot and while trading Wright frees time for the guards, He was not the right one ( pardon the pun) to trade.
I think this was happy feet, fear of no Holmes and I think they tried to modify, to make bigger but obviously that did not work out.
The thing is, even if you think you are losing Holmes, there are much better options for bigs and a far cheaper price. You could platoon the position with the likes of the Len, Metu, or Jones. Hell, Biyombo was released and is now a UFA and could also be had for the minimum. Instead they get a past his prime TT at over $9M.
TT is an expiring contract currently our back up center where he belongs. Starting for the Celtics he was underachieving, he is a solid back up who rebounds well and will put a body on opposing bigs. Wright was redundant while TT will help us rebound finally and fill in during injuries and foul trouble.
I believe this is mostly true, and while Wright may not have been totally redundant, TT may not be either. I had less faith in Harkless last year and he was pretty serviceable. Also we have gone into the last couple seasons looking deep in the front court, only to watch that depth drain away during the season like sand through our hands. I like the idea of an extra big body, and six more hard fouls to give. If he never plays, then the idea didn’t work out, but I get the it.
As for whether they could have gotten better value for Wright, maybe, but it isn’t a large gap in value and more to the point, they’re both expiring. Ham explained how it could have been about timing more than anything else, in ways that aren’t apparent from the outside, and I can believe timing key deals now could outweigh the value of a couple 2nds down the road when you feel you already have enough projects in the pipeline.
I feel like Harkless was flat out bad.
I don’t have numbers to compare him to the rest of the league, but I liked him at the 3 better than Buddy.
And if your right, then I think that’s what we should be discussing, because, although minor, his deal, at 2 yrs & $9 mil will have a much more significant impact on their roster and cap situation than the deal we’re currently discussing.
He had some bad moments but all players do. Mo showed up when he needed to. I think he’ll be serviceable due to our several lack of wings. Hopefully Lous King breaks out.
*severe
Specifically, Ham explained how sequencing deals according to the right timing allowed the Kings to retain the free agents they chose to, including Holmes, so if your glad they kept him, remember sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.
I still don’t understand what James Ham was talking about here. I don’t get it at all. Harkless was re-signed with non-Bird rights, Len bi-annual exception and Holmes with his early bird rights. All of those things were available to the Kings regardless of timing of any of those deals being announced publicly. There was no need to sequence any of them in the appropriate order.
This would have been true as long as the Kings were operating over the cap.
The difference in the respective salaries was necessary to use up the last of the cap, and it had to be done by the end of the fiscal year for them to operate over the cap and use those rights/exceptions. At least that’s what I got out of what he said. He also seemed to be at least half speculating. I think his point was that there are reasons, which aren’t apparent, as well as the well-known reasons, why deals do need to be sequenced in the right order and according to various deadlines.
What worries me is the Kings were at the cap this past season and didn’t use the MLE. They are at the same damn place this year and have yet to use the MLE. I’m not sure who is left that is even worth the MLE at this point.
They continue to tread water while the rest of the league is swimming freestyle.
They used the MLE to sign Woodard, Ramsey, Jones and Metu to their deals. Without that, they would have only been able to sign them to 2 year deals.
They still had half of it available but it loses value as the season moves along.
I agree- I think Monte got scared and happy feet and just pulled the first trigger.
I wouldn’t mind too much if they had just signed him to a 1 year contract. The kings don’t have any good rebounders for their positions. The problem is they traded away the better/more valuable player. I know delon Wright has more value than that. I feel like monte just decided we need toughness and rebounding and that’s all we’re going to do regardless or anything else.
I don’t really like this trade much, but the only thing I’d say in terms of Wright’s value and the question of if we could have gotten more for him in a deal is that, well, you know, he was traded to us for Cory Joseph (and two seconds, but I don’t see those as particularly valuable, either). So maybe there just isn’t really that much of a market for Wright out there in the basketball universe.
This trade is just odd to me. Wright is clearly a better player than TT. Hopefully this is a precursor to something else.
‘
There also wasn’t that heavy of a FA market for Richaun Holmes either. These things work both for and against you in the end. Nobody wins all of these transactions no matter how often the perception might argue otherwise.
I think there was a reason to make this deal quickly, and we can speculate on the many reasons. I think NBA FO’s knew the Kings had to make a move, and there was no urgency to give up anything of value in return for Wright. It’s quite possible the Kings could have gotten a worse deal by waiting.
Once the Kings took Davion Mitchell in the draft, they had a conundrum in terms of rotation and minutes to sort out. This was one of those solutions.
Going out on a limb here, but I’m guessing that it is a small list of lottery teams that improve by trading the cheaper, better player for the more expensive, worse player.
Happy for us to be in the minority! We were obviously undersized in many games last year and rebounding was clearly an issue we now have added 2 legit 7 footers with NBA experience in Len and TT and we gave up an undersized shooting guard that does nothing particularly well. BPA in draft, balance roster and fill in holes via free agency and trades. Yes we are better with TT in our roster then Wright regardless of who we assume is the better player today.
TT was no better than Whiteside last year. That is the level of player that we just added to the roster.
BS. Whiteside was horrible all year. TT showed up in the playoffs. Is TT a star? Hell no. But he is serviceable especially when Holmes gets into foul trouble…which is frequent.
Check the RPM and WAR for last year. The two were right in line with each other. Then check the Boston fan base. Dude was horrible last year by those metrics. He was nothing more than a raw stats guy that had a negative impact most of the time that he was on the floor. Sound familiar?
Hey, maybe he experiences a re-birth in Sacramento. But if we get last year’s TT, no one around here is going to be happy.
Well hopefully we get that rebirth. The team needs it especially if this is the team we are rolling with.
Btw…there is an interesting trade proposal. Buddy to the Detriot. Looks like we could get some serviceable guys in return. Outside of Mcgruder. They just waived him.
TT is listed at 6’9.
…when he’s not standing on LeBron’s shoulders.
So what about lottery teams that draft a younger, cheaper player that could out produce the older player? Even as early as year 1? That’s just as possible as the Thompson deal hurting the roster, isn’t it?
As much as I like Delon Wright, there’s a reason the Kings got him for Cory Joseph and those 2 2nd’s, just as there was a reason he was traded for Tristan Thompson. Some guys just don’t have as much value to a NBA FO in certain context, right or wrong.
These are not singular 1 for 1 transactions. They are being made in context, with other transactions in mind, and with other players in mind. The singular biggest factor in this team being a playoff team is A) De’Aaron Fox finishing the leap he was making at times the last two seasons into the offensive force he has the potential to be and B) the defense and defensive rebounding (both of which were atrocious last season; the historical levels is unimportant IMO) improving enough so that it’s not holding the Kings back from being able to utilize their supposed high level offense more effectively.
Does Tristan Thompson change anything for this team? Probably not. But if you are going to tell me that Wright is changing anything for this team dramatically, hoo buddy. I’d love to hear that.
This is a different group than what started last season. Delon Wright or Tristan Thompson doesn’t change that. Scream all you want about 1 v 1 asset value, but this roster improving overall helps improve the value of your assets overall. You’re going to have to take risks, and that includes trading for players that are perceived as less valuable than the one’s you give up.
At least this FO has an idea of what an asset is, and what value it should have. That’s a hell of a lot more than I could ever say about Vlade Divac and his joke of a FO.
Comparing the TT acquisition to drafting a player? Tell me all about TT’s upside & potential, please.
And the Vlade Divac FO is the new bar to get over? Oy gevalt!
I wasn’t comparing acquiring TT to drafting Mitchell. You are. I was saying, and will continue to say, that all of these moves are made in context and with an overall plan. What exactly that is, or ends up being, I’m not sure. I’m waiting like everyone else to find out.
The Vlade Divac FO was a joke and is no bar at all. It remains to be seen as to whether or not the Monte McNair FO is worth anything over the long haul, but they seem to at least understand how the NBA transaction wire works.
They aren’t having a slam dunk A+ offseason (I’d grade it a B-), but it isn’t finished yet either. A lot will depend on whether or not Bagley and Hield are still on the roster. And what they are moved for.
Deck chairs and Titanic ! Until top talent is acquired nothing can change ! Another 25 to 30 win season and talk of future great deals !
Your doing this all wrong…supposed to always claim the front office are morons with certainty even when we have no idea what market value of any of these guys are.
I just don’t see how there is that much to be fired up about with this trade. It’s just…whatever.
If it is just…whatever, then why do it? Neither player is going to move the needle in term of wins and losses, right? So why make the trade in terms of asset management?
Is TT worth two 2nd rounders and extra cash against the cap? Because that is what it cost the Kings. IMO, Wright has more value in the league with his style of play than an old school back to the basket big.
1) Things have changed since the deadline. They decided to draft Mitchell bc they think he was the best prospect. That created a log jam in the backcourt. So if he traded minor assets at the deadline to make the team better in Wright, assuming he could be back up point this year, but then the best prospect available (to them) is available at #9 and happens to be a guard, I sure as hell hope Monte isn’t not drafting who he thinks the best player is bc he gave up two 2nd round picks for Delon Wright and it might cause some positional redundancy among back ups
2) Pretty hard to say Wright definitely has more value. In the last 3 trades he was involved in just the past year the other “Assets” involved were with 2nd rounders, Justin Jackson, Trevor Ariza, Cory Joseph, James Johnson and Kris Dunn as other players involved. Apparently that’s the company Delon is in, like it or not.
3) How is the extra 1.5 mill against the cap hurting them? If they need that for some reason in the future, they can dump anyone of guys like Metu, Jones, Woodard, Ramsey etc. which at this point it would statistically unlikely for any one of those guys to be meaningful contributors on a good team. The extra 1.5 isn’t setting them up to sign someone this very moment it would seem.
Sure I might have preferred something else, but again I think the whole trade is just a nothing burger overall. Monte obviously feels differently and I think it’s hard pressed when evaluating back up players like this for any of us to really say different with any confidence.
Exactly.
Yep.
His impact on the basketball court is leaps and bounds better than his value in trades. The Kings have trouble finding players that impact the game in a positive way and they just gave one of the few good ones on the roster away for a bag of potato chips.
Except, he probably isn’t going to be on the court for this particular team. He’s behind Fox, Hali, Mitchell (like it or not) and Buddy. Personally I like the upside of Davis better too and would like to see if he can improve. So for me he is a 6th guard, but at best 5th in the rotation for the Kings.
Besides, everyone likes chips…
OT- have to ask about timorous_me…Ted Leo song reference??
Yes!
If you liked Hasan Whiteside, you’ll love Tristan Thompson at 6x the price!
Whiteside was a dumb signing even at the small number, puts into perspective how overpaid TT is.
I just get the feeling that TT will at least look like he gives a damn on the court. Might not be worth millions of dollars but it is something.
Do you actually think TT wants to be a King ?
Is this a Hassan Whiteside sized mistake? Or a DaQuan Jeffries sized? Certainly not Bagley sized. Although I don’t particularly like it either, I don’t think it will certainly turn out bad. I’d like your perspective since you are obviously not impressed. How bad is it? How will it rank in the pantheon of bad Kings deals?
It’s not a big deal, just a bad deal. I base it on this –
I think that Wright was a viable 6th-7th man. Not the best, not the worst, but viable. And whether the Kings wind up dealing Hield or not, there was certainly room for Wright in the rotation last year. Now, the Kings drafted Davion Mitchell, and apparently they think that this makes Wright expendable. I don’t think that Mitchell will be as good this year as Wright will be this year, and that does not bother me. But that seems to run counter to the Kings mindset of breaking the playoff drought this year by any means possible. But maybe I am severely underestimating Mitchell, who I do like a lot but project to be considerably south of rookie Tyrese Haliburton level as a rookie. So in this respect, I think that Kings took a step backward.
I think that Tristan Thompson is washed as a player. And I could be completely wrong about that, but he looked really bad on a Boston team last year that had a considerably better cast around him than what the Kings offer. He was Hasan Whiteside bad last year. He may not be as productive as Alex Len when it is all said and done.
So in my eyes, the Kings traded a core rotation player for a guy that may wind up being 3rd string center. And I am comfortable in predicting that I will enjoy watching TT a lot less this year than I did Wright last year.
Does this impact the W-L record. My guess is no. Does it impact future assets at all? No. So the question is, why make deals that don’t positively impact your W-L record or increase your future assets. More shuffling of deck chairs on the Titanic is what I see here.
Hey, I hope that I’m wrong about this and that TT re-discovers the game that he has not really shown since he and LeBron parted ways. But I’m sure not counting on it.
Thanks!
Well stated.
And I’ll add, for those who do think it’s a “meh” trade and where there is no harm, there’s no foul…that is exactly the problem.
A team that hasn’t sniffed the playoffs in 15 years shouldn’t be given a pass for a “meh” trade and re-signing it’s own free agents.
I get the impression that folks want to laud them for it and not just give them a pass. They’ve certainly been good at kicking the can down the road so far.
I don’t like the trade.
Ham justified it on the pulse pod by saying when the trade was made, the FO didn’t know if they would be able to retain Holmes and sign Len; so TT was essentially insurance against that and since there were a glut of guards, Wright was expendable.
I don’t agree with this sort of thinking, even if you weren’t able to resign Holmes and sign Len, there’d be a plethora of bigs you could sign that could replicate TT’s contributions at a fraction of the price.
McGenius or McDoofus? I guess time will tell.
To this…
A $9.7M insurance policy? I remember reading a quote years ago that went something like this: “Planning out steps 4 and 5 before you’ve planned out step 1 only takes you a step back.”
They’ve basically gone from having too many guards as problem to no having too many bigs as a problem. Even worse, those bigs have near zero trade value.
I’m gonna be upset if the Kings don’t guarantee the cheap deals of Metu or Jones, or even park Queta in Stockton, simply because they have Len and TT on the roster.
The “good” news is none of the guys you named are likely to have meaningful impact.
If there’s one thing I’m happy about the McNair FO, he doesn’t overpay for fringe talent. Jones, Metu, Whiteside and even Robinson IIi weren’t signed using a big contract or even a 2nd round pick.
If Metu pans out, I’ll be extremely happy about that. He’s a potential backup PF, and when you aren’t paying much more than the minimum for that that’s an understandable investment.
It’s important to not pay for the bottom of your roster which I felt Vlade Divac was constantly doing.
I don’t see any way Jones is on the roster now. Queta is a TWC guy all the way, it seems like.
One possible rationale i can think of is to see if Tristan will play harder to earn another contract. If he does, i think he can be flipped at the deadline (Playoff teams always look for toughness and i dont think there is any argument abt his toughness) .. Delon was also an expiring but i think he gets less chance to play anyway for his contract year !!!!
He’s no tougher than your average player.
well.. Then i will argue last years kings were all below average after the reaction after what happened to Metu and average brings the team average up..
p.s. I hate TT the player but IMHO the team could use somebody who brings in a stronger us vs them mentality.
i think they could use somebody who brings in a stronger “I’m good at basketball” mentality. And the skills to go with it. The team might be lacking in toughness. The team is definitely lacking in overall quality.
I agree that he’s average, but with 10 yrs and championship experience.
A lot of bad players have championship experience. And average is a strong over statement. Justin Jackson has championship experience. Thompson is replacement level.
You are difficult to argue with, but I think we’re discussing fine points now.
I’ve been trying to explain my opinion of this trade in the thread and why I don’t like it, but have just now settled on a simple explanation.
1) The Kings sucked at defense and toughness so they signed an older Cory Joseph, known for his toughness and defense. It didn’t pan out.
2) The Kings traded Cory Joseph and two 2nd rounders for Delon Wright, whom I can assume most of us considered an upgrade.
3) The Kings trade Delon Wright for a big man’s version of Cory Joseph in TT, known for his”toughness and defense.”
4) In the end, all the King have done is give away two 2nd rounders and they are right back where they started.
This is really the first I’m hearing about Thompson having a reputation for defense. He’s always been a pretty mediocre-at-best defender. Honestly, if he didn’t spend a few years playing a hilariously narrow role and being fed layups by LeBron, Thompson would probably be scraping for minimum deals.
Truth. I’m not sure what exactly separates him from someone like Jason Thompson. Slightly better rebounder?
Relative to last year’s Kings, almost everyone has a reputation for defense.
This is exactly my thinking. I grant that this move doesn’t really matter. The plus/minus on wins is little or nothing either way. But why burn the assets on Wright to turn around and deal him for a 6″ taller Corey Joseph?
How does an analytics-driven front office evaluate “toughness?” Is that a quantitative decision or a qualitative decision? And if you can’t quantify it, does it exist in a way that adds wins?
Hmm… I think quantitative refers to what you think you can get for him, qualitative refers to what you think he can do for you. How you turn that into statistical analysis? I have no clue.
What I mean is, can you run numbers on Tristan Thompson’s (or anyone’s) “toughness” adding wins to a team? If you can’t put numbers on it, does it exist?
Yeah, It sounds like a platitude. Numbers not withstanding, TT’s “toughness” is no less than Bagley’s.
Maybe it was a Joe Dumars influenced move?
I wouldn’t be shocked, but I hope not, and can’t really justify jumping to that conclusion without reporting supporting it.
Agree, and a bigger deck chair , nothing more !
I guess my alternative view with this especially point 4 is I don’t feel you can view it as they wasted the 2nd round picks or it’s the equivalent of traded two 2nds for TT. In vacuum , sure it is but
a. Did Monte make a good deal at the deadline to get Wright for two 2nds (plus ridding Josephs partial guarantee)?
I think majority of us feel yes, because Wright had an additional year at a reasonable contract. Good back up for 2021-22. Monte is moving on with that locked down.
b. Once that deal is done, next aspect of this is the draft. Monte identifies Mitchell as the best player and falls to him at #9. No real way to predict that at last deadline…should he consider Wright or the seconds he gave up when making this selection?
I think we universally would say no.
At that point he looks to rebalance the roster and get a big. I think Hield is better than Wright and a better asset even with the contract. Monte resigned Davis to a very reasonable deal for half as much as Wright. So Wright is odd man out. Should Monte just sit on Wright because he doesn’t want to have “wasted” the 2nd round picks given at the deadline? That doesn’t make sense to me personally, so he got what he thought was fair value. Disagree if you will. I think it makes sense if you break down each individual transaction, at least it does for me.
I don’t love Thompson, but he did start for a playoff team last year and was net neutral ON/OFF numbers. Playing against lots of other starters. I can’t say the same for Metu and Jones. In the end its a 9 mill expiring that can be useful when trying to match salary in a bigger deal. 4-5 million in cap space won’t do that if you are substituting by getting a cheaper 3-4 million dollar center.
I feel he should sit on Wright, whom I feel has more value than TT, until a net positive trade come along. As of today, he got the worst player of the two and is paying more for him. At worst, he doesn’t get minutes and walks in free agency or asks for a buyout. The Kings still end up paying less.
Call it a gut feeling, but I feel the Kings could have gotten more for Wright this upcoming season than they can for TT.
Maybe true. Recent history on trades involving Wright would indicate probably not much difference though. Probably just depends on who has injury at certain position and in position of bench desperation.
He doesn’t have to sit on Wright. Unless Buddy is traded, you know Walton is going to play Buddy at the 3. Wright is ten times the defender Hield is and would be a much better option at the spot. Not to mention the minutes that TD will most likely get at the 2. Another inferior player to Wright. The point is that there are guys that are the same size as Wright that are going to get minutes and none of them are as good as he is.
Wright a better option than Buddy at the 3? Cmon…
Yes he is a better defender than Buddy in a vacuum or against guards, but at that SF position he is giving up 30-40 lbs against most guys which Buddy isn’t, so that advantage is somewhat negated.
I guess we will throw out the fact Buddy is also one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of the last ten years as well too.
Contracts aside (even not contracts aside) acting like Delon Weight is better than Buddy is kinda ridiculous. If Buddy was making 8 mill on an expiring I know which one Monte could get more for in a trade. And it’s more than Tristan Thompson or second round picks.