Welcome to 30Q, our annual September series where we ask a question a day to preview the upcoming season for the Sacramento Kings.
For years now, it seems, we have been waiting for the Kings to make a big move, one that will propel them back into the upper echelon of the NBA. We have toiled through rebuild after rebuild and the most we have had to show for it has been a 39 win season back in 2019. Should the Kings fail to make the playoffs this year, they’ll stand alone in the NBA annals with the longest playoff drought in history, in a league where more than half the teams make the postseason every year.
Kings GM Monte McNair has only been at the helm for a little more than a year, but he’s made his modus operandi clear from his introductory press conference:
“My goal is to keep that flexibility and be aggressive whenever the time comes to improve the team.”
Sacramento’s two offseasons under McNair have been relatively quiet, but it does not seem to be for a lack of trying. A potential sign-and-trade of Bogdan Bogdanovic to Milwaukee for Donte DiVincenzo was derailed in a very confusing situation last summer. This summer that the Kings were seemingly set to trade Buddy Hield to the Los Angeles Lakers for a package that would have included Montrezl Harrell and Kyle Kuzma, but that deal fell apart after the Lakers switched gears at the last minute and went after Russell Westbrook instead.
Now the rumor mill is heating up once again, as reports indicate that the relationship between Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers is irreparable. Oddsmakers even have the Kings as the most likely destination, which has perked up the ears of Kings fans everywhere. Simmons is exactly the type of young talent that the Kings should pursue, and a trade for him would rank up there with the biggest in Kings history. The only All-Stars the Kings have ever traded for were Chris Webber and Ron Artest. Both drastically improved the team (although in Ron’s case, it was short lived). Simmons has already made three All-Star teams, two All-Defensive teams and an All-NBA team, all before the age of 25. Players of his caliber almost never become available to a team like the Kings.
Yet there’s still skepticism from many that a deal could be made. For starters, Philadelphia’s asking price appears to remain very high. According to the Bee’s Jason Anderson, the 76ers only appear willing to consider deals involving De’Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton, two players the Kings have so far been reticent to part with, and for good reason. Fox has blossomed into a star in his own right, and Haliburton was one of the best rookies in the NBA last season.
The Kings have other assets they could offer up, including Buddy Hield, the recently drafted Davion Mitchell and multiple first round picks and pick swaps. But if Simmons is truly on the market, there are other interested parties that could seemingly put together a better package than that. The Warriors have quite a few intriguing young pieces that might interest Philadelphia, and Portland could offer a package centered around C.J. McCollum.
If push came to shove would the Kings put all their cards on the table and offer up one of Fox or Haliburton in the pursuit of Simmons? It’s not a move that would be particularly popular, but it might be what it takes to get a deal done. For now though, it seems to be a war of words through the media as all sides fight for leverage. It remains to be seen if the Kings finally get their man or if it’ll just be another near-miss to add to the ledger.
30Q is baaaaaaaaaaaaack!! Which means the season is just around the corner.
Joel Embiid is trying to derail the Kings!
Stop the love-fest! Fight! Fight!
Your only sayin’ that cuz they removed the other thumb!
Yahoo Sports suggests that GSW is currently the favorite to get Simmons. I’m not really clear on what’s changed from yesterday afternoon. They do have Moody & Kuminga, and could include Wiggins to get the numbers to match. They also have Wiseman, and first-rounders. I’m forced to admit that he could be pretty amazing on a team where there’s nearly no need fro him to score.
I’m good with Hield & Bagley/Barnes and a couple of first-rounders, but when Mitchell is included, I flinch, and when Fox or Haliburton are mentioned, I become very ambivalent. If Simmons can be had, that’s going to be a tough one, depending on the price.
And that’s based on Bet MGM’s odds, that Yahoo article is. Yesterday’s article by Greg was based off Sports Betting Dime.
I don’t know what’s more reputable or better, etc etc, but Embiid just said he doesn’t have a beef with Simmons (per The Athletic). That people are including his name to make stories up. He then pointed out that Philly fans have boo’d him. And so on. Clearly he’s trying to reinvent the narrative some on behalf of the team that just signed him to the supermax.
Clearly, there’s alot at stake from alot of vantages. But we knew that. That’s always the case.
I think the Kings have a real shot at Simmons, but unless GSW or Minny (don’t see San Antonio doing it) do a stupid lopsided deal in favor of Philly, I don’t know they have more than what Sac can offer.
First of all. I would like to know what kind of offer are you implying ?
(If Fox is on the table, we definitely can get Simmons)
If Fox was on the table, that deal is already done.
Or not.
Your logic being that De’Aaron Fox isn’t enough to acquire Ben Simmons is? Especially when there’s been sources saying that’s what Philly is asking for?
Why would Philly hold up a deal if they are getting their asking price?
A lots of things; discussion about extra assets Philly may demand, or Sac demanding an extra asset back, or protection on assets.
Or these sources could be wrong.
Rich Paul shoving Maxey into the equation is unfortunate, both for Maxey, and for the math involved in creating such a trade. I don’t think that Philly is happy about losing Simmons, but may be resigned to the reality of it.
With Maxey, to my knowledge, he’s been happy there, and has certainly gotten the opportunity to shine, which he’s definitely done. If a deal with Maxey has to be done, I’d think that barring some really great return, it makes more sense to make that a separate transaction.
Paul is doing his client a real disservice in attempting to push Maxey out of a great situation with a contender. I fully support players having more determination as to where they play, and under what terms, but an agent unnecessarily disrupting a roster is a real problem for me.
Fox is the better player and will continue to be the better player as long as he stays in the gym. Simmons can’t do what Fox does, but Fox CAN do everything Simmons does when he really exerts effort. They are basically the same person except Ben can’t shoot. Many will say Fox can’t shoot either, but he shoots better than Simmons. Only comparisons between these two.
On this team, we don’t need Simmons to score. We need his playing abilities and his defense. We need him at PF.
Morey has his head stuck up his ass. Buddy, Bagley, and two 1st round picks. Maybe 3.
Monte….GET IT DONE.
Swing for fences .. sounds fun
So Morey’s on the mound, right?
…and when we’re pitching…
But those were tears of joy that day!
Ben Simmons mentioned 3 California teams he’d like to go play for.
Well, since Miami is not in California, that leaves the Warriors, L*kers, and Kings:
We definitely need to find a way to land Simmons……..without giving up Fox, Tyrese, Barnes, Mitchell, Len, Metu, Davis, Harkless, King, Ramsey, Holmes.
A good old fashioned kidnaping it is, then.
We just need to push him toward a Patty Hearst-style case of Stockholm Syndrome, and we can have everything that we want.
We are the Sacramentioese Liberation Army.
Man, you’re old.
My brain just makes the most random connections to shit, meanwhile, I can’t remember why I walked from one room into another.
But yes, old af.
Yet you can still use a computer and say things like “af.” NIce!
It’s important for me to maintain my Indie Street Cred®, which I value above life itself.
On that list, Fox and Tyrese are the only players I’d be hesitant in parting ways. The others on the list, I’d easily include them in a Simmons deal.
Let’s give them Walton. Make him a player/coach.
The anticipation is melting Kings groups on FB at a never seen before pace. I’ve had to snooze all of them for 30 days just to stop seeing Simmons’ face all day, every day (and the opinions, some of them are just… wow.)
I’ll say it again – I wouldn’t mind an All NBA Defensive 1st Team, multiple all-star on the Kings. Which means it probably isn’t going to happen.
Can’t trade Fox for Simmons because he’s more valuable, can’t trade Hali for Simmons because their skillsets are better being paired rather than exchanged….can’t I just give you Bagley and a 2nd Rder pleeeaaaaaseee?
Sixers already said they would only trade Simmons to the Kings if they get Fox in return.
Sixers are losing time and leverage. They’ll likely have to bend a little on their demands.
Definitely. With Simmons leveraging his way out, and the season approaching, everyone knows that Morey’s wants are on ground that gets shakier with each passing day.
Swing-Swing?
Do it.
Mitchell
Hali
Simmons
Barnes
Holmes
Maybe the most switchable D in the league. Emphasis on ball movement. Clear identity. Then just move Luke.
Honestly, seeing that lineup gets me ecstatic for the defensive potential. Offensively, it makes me a little nervous. Still, it might be worth it.
Points off TO’s would be crazy. After that, it comes down to whether you believe Mitchell will be a better shooter than Fox. I believe yes.
Which wont be a hard thing to do. I love Fox. BUT the fact that his shooting is so inconsistent is a major concern to me. Throw in the inconsistent defense as well.
Exactly, Fox isn’t perfect, either.
This exactly. It’s not like the Kings need Fox, who also has his own FT issues. This would actually be a good defensive team!
70% isn’t ideal, but an issue, particularly as it pertains to acquiring Ben Simmons?
Nah.
And then Buddy coming off the bench to provide elite three point shooting when needed. With Mitchell, Hali, Simmons, the amount of high IQ passing would be contagious.
Hell, that defense is so good, we might even be able to forego Bagley’s defensive deficiencies and he would be a useful rotation big. As much as we all love Fox, we should pull the trigger on that.
I just don’t see Philly doing a deal without getting Hield. He instantly lessens one of their biggest weaknesses.
I think Philly can remedy their shooting woes in a far cheaper way than paying Buddy $20M, plus they also went out and got Niang this past summer. Niang and Curry kind of negate Buddy and is costing the 76ers half the price.
Philly doesn’t really have shooting woes. They shot 37.4% from 3 as a team (11th in the league). The issue isn’t not having shooters. It’s that they have a heliocentric post player and neither he nor their other high usage player (Harris) really creates many 3s for others. They have shooters, they just don’t generate enough shots for them because neither Embiid nor Harris are especially good passers for the USG/touches.
Solid points.
This. And there’s zero reason to think Seth Curry couldn’t handle more volume. And he’s no worse than Buddy defensively.
I respectfully disagree, about the defense. At least Buddy has some size even if he’s no ball hawk. As for overall value, I think the point is still valid. I think Buddy is more of a star in his role.
IF they were to make that trade and keep Buddy, I would expect Buddy to start next to Hali.
But, really, I just don’t expect them to trade Fox for at least the next year.
That team can’t shoot.
Trade Fox? Fine. But only if some combination of Thybulle, Korkmaz, Maxey and/or picks come back too. Simmons for Fox straight up is a steal for Morey.
They aren’t gonna trade Simmons for Buddy. They already have Curry, Green, Harris, Embiid, Furk all as 38% 3pt shooters. Buddy is a better 3pt shooter than all those guys, but they’ll need a lead ballhandler way more than a floor stretcher when they trade Ben.
Buddy+Fox+1sts
I think Tony and Jerry made some good points about a potential Simmons trade involving Fox and Haliburton. I feel like the Kings would be better of with Simmons instead of Fox OR Haliburton. Having said that, it all depends on what Philly wants next to Fox/Hali. If you lose Barnes and Buddy, or Barnes and a couple of firsts, I wouldn’t do it, because I don’t think we would improve. If it’s Fox or Hali, a player like Marvin (who shouldn’t be getting a lot of PT here) and at most two picks for Simmons, I’d say yes.
I tried. I certainly failed.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhk5kqmk
Draymond isn’t going anywhere. He is the dubs franchise. The real MVP
You might not be wrong, but that’s crazy talk. Simmons steps in as plugin and is younger and better than Green in almost every way.
Simmons would be able to fill Green’s role pretty nicely, in regard to defense and facilitation, but Draymond, while not a great shooter, is however, a shooter. Dray is also a leader, which I think Simmons could be, but definitely isn’t right now at this low point in his career.
This is an interesting take on Simmons from Liberty Ballers.
https://www.libertyballers.com/2021/9/1/22652118/ben-simmons-trade-demand-tyrese-maxey-nerlens-noel
If you have time, read through the comments on how the fans feel.
Some say the Sixers don’t play Simmons correctly.
Others say he is the type of player that will get you to the playoffs, but lessen the team’s chances of succeeding in the playoffs.
He is called petulant and undisciplined, but talented.
And his agent is described as poisonous.
Here is an excerpt from the story:
“Ben Simmons wanted to be a point guard, so the Sixers made him a point guard — never mind the fact that it’s typically useful to have your point guard be willing to shoot jump shots. They wanted him to get together with their own hand-picked shooting coach to work on his shot — he went off with his brother instead. After Simmons made his second career 3-pointer against Cleveland, former head coach Brett Brown publicly stated he wanted Ben to attempt at least one 3 per game — instead, Simmons went back to not shooting without a care in the world. Current head coach Doc Rivers went out of his way all last season to act as if media members who asked about Ben’s shooting didn’t know basketball because they weren’t only acknowledging the positive things he brought to the table. The fans were down on Ben? Anytime he simply made both free throws, they cheered him on like he had just hit a game-winning shot.”
Okay. You sold me!
He sounds like the exact type of top-end-talent that the Sacramento Kings have any shot of acquiring!
Never mind he’s been in the playoffs and an all star every year he’s been in the league. Never mind 15 years of dogshit here.
A perfectly sensible take, given that Sacramento has had the caliber of players like Embiid and Harris, but still hasn’t made the playoffs.
I’m hoping this is top shelf Andy Sims sarcasm.
Or coaches, GMs, owners, the city, or anything else you want to blame it on. As if Embiid and Harris aren’t better because of Simmons. I’ll hang with facts here.
I would disagree with that. A guy who can facilitate and defend like Simmons invariably makes his teammates better. He doesn’t spread the floor, which hinders the inside games of Embiid and Harris, but with both of those guys competent from distance, and with Joel, in particular, being so dominant, it’s less of an issue there.
I guess we’ll find out this season. But until then, wins, playoffs, accolades, awards, etc, speak louder to me.
I can’t separate them from the context.
Luke Walton has rings.
Back to Earth, please.
All of this is exactly why Philly isn’t getting their exorbitant asking price. Is GSW goiing to do a stupid deal to get Simmons? They were 5th in DRtg last season, Philly 3rd. Is Simmons really moving the needle for them defensively? Philly was 13th in ORtg, GSW 20th. Are they going to trade all their assets to get Simmons? I’m not seeing it. If you’re going to do that type of deal, do it for Joel Embiid. Who isn’t available. I feel like Minnesota and San Antonio can’t even top a stupid Golden State offer were one to even present itself.
It’s an interesting thread, I rather enjoyed reading it. There are some funny sidebars that made it worth reading.
Grab yourself a cup of coffee and read this..
https://www.phillyvoice.com/nba-trade-rumors-ben-simmons-trade-request-klutch-sports-rich-paul-daryl-morey-doc-rivers/
I already had two cups of coffee this morning so DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, MARTY!
Amateur. I’m on 4 cups.
I can understand the rationale from the Kings perspective as they can be a suitor considering the context when otherwise they wouldnt be in the conversation. Still even me who watches passing highlights more than dunks, cross ups or shotmakers have trouble justifying this.
Remove being the #1 pick in a poor draft, inflated All Star selections in a poor conference, a defensive reputation that has the safety net of likely the leagues best defender when healthy, an albatross contract and a complete avoidance of shooting and or contextualizing that fact in other facets and I fail to see why I would give up assets for the opportunity.
I admit that those perceptions are informed by a general disagreement of the Kings pushing for wins oppose to the tank. But if you are willing to give some combination of firsts, Mitchell along with Hield and Barnes who do have some trade value currently chasing up an inflated market rate for possibly the biggest question mark in the league wouldnt be my move.
Again you judge by the options available. Maybe two plus starters or the likes of Siakam arent on the table. And Simmons has aspects worth intrigue so I could abstractly come to terms if a trade is done for a first Mitchell and say the one of Barnes Hield. But its an overpay informed by the Kings desperateness and something personally I wouldn’t consider and view as a mistake. Anything more isnt even worth discussion IMO.
Fox for Simmons. I’m here for it
*Supposing Ben is amenable to being here long term
Any term is long term here.
terminal
Here is my final offer if I’m McNair: Fox and a 2022 lottery protected first rounder (if not conveyed it turns into two future 2nd rounders). Before folks loose their shit, this is based on a these factors:
1) Simmons is a better basketball player than Fox, so it will take more than Fox to land Simmons.
2) Adding Simmons to the Kings roster in place of Fox does not make the Kings a playoff team…this season. Kings still have Walton.
3) Things are going to take time to gel and the youngsters in Hali and Mitchell need more time, hopefully with a new head coach this time next year.
4) You make this trade thinking more about the 2022-23 season and beyond.
5) Simmons and Fox do not make a good on the court pairing. Simmons and the players like Hali, Buddy, Barnes, Holmes etc. are much better than Simmons, Fox, Holmes and only one of Buddy, Barnes or Hali. Kings aren’t getting Simmons for Buddy and Bagley.
In the end, the Kings reshape the roster by giving up Fox and a likely pair of future 2nds. They become a defensive minded team relies on IQ rather than athleticism. I love Fox. He’s my second favorite King behind Hali, but I fear for his high usage and diminishing athleticism over the next few years as injuries pile up. He’s more John Wall than Russell Westbrook in that regard. For me, Simmons is the better cornerstone going forward.
Swing away, Monte.
Adding one more thing..
Could Bagley be playable, and more importantly, salvageable if he were to share the court with the likes of Simmons and Mitchell? Basically if the team took a defense first approach, with the help of those two and someone like Christie on the bench, could Bagley turn it around?
It could potentially be a nice unrealized bonus of acquiring Simmons.
Thank god you aren’t the GM of the Kings.
Bet he would’ve taken Doncic. Bet he wouldn’t have hired Luke. Bet we’d be looking at our third straight year of playoffs. I’d take that.
99% of this board would’ve made those two moves.
We need to find a deal to get Buddy out of here too. We do not need a bitter Buddy in the locker room.
I think Buddy would excel with Simmons and Hali running the offensive sets.
I don’t want to know what bitter-Buddy face looks like.
I don’t know. For a guy with Simmons deficiencies, if there’s no improvement in wins, and we’re expecting yet another lost season, is that a trade we should be making?
I mostly agree except, I’m still not convinced we can’t make it happen w/o Fox. The Warriors have a better offer, but Morey wants a championship, and if that’s the plan for this season, then he can’t send ANY help to the Ws. I think Morey would love to ship Simmons to Sac. Maybe Buddy/Barnes + ? Now Oddsmakers know this is the preferred destination if Monte can just find a way to help Morey help Kings fans…
BREAKING:
IT’S DONE.
WELCOME TO THE KINGS, BEN!
(Er, welcome back back… the “III” stands for third tour of duty)
Ben K false excitement
Dude averaged 14.9 ppg and makes over 30 mil a year. I don’t understand how folks want to gut our team and draft picks for this prima dona. Typical TKH diarrhea of the mouth.
You mean the worst defensive team in NBA history? The team with the longest playoff drought in NBA history? That team?
Oh I’m sure he will be the savior. SMH, dude is soft just like Bagley. Sure gut the team and give up all of our draft capital for a mental marshmallow that can’t shoot. Sounds perfectly logical.
How is a guy who is all-nba and DPOY of the candidate soft?
A guy that passes up an open dunk in a critical playoff game? I don’t really care for the word “soft” for an issue like this, but his mindset (as generally perceived) is a problem, assuming that he’s not able to overcome it.
If we’re looking at 2021 playoff stats, going from the Washington series to Atlanta, his ppg dropped by about a third, and his rebounds nearly forty percent. He averaged thirty-four percent from the line in the postseason after averaging about sixty-one percent for the season.
Even so, there are trades for him that I’m sure that I could live with, but his shooting problems, both in general, and from the line, aren’t non-factors. His demeanor in the playoffs suggests that his self-confidence is in the crapper, and I hope that wherever he plays, he can re-attain it, even if he’s never able to become an adequate shooter.
If he hasn’t already gotten help in rebuilding himself, I have zero confidence in Luke Walton putting Simmons in situations designed to help him succeed.
Sometimes all it takes is a change of scenery. Playing for Philly is like living under a microscope and the press and fans can be unrelenting. Playing for a place like Sacramento may actually be a benefit to him.
Heh, because we don’t overexamine the absolute shit out of everything here in Sacramento.
We don’t Boo Santa!
Maybe we should. He hasn’t brought us shit in fifteen years.
Prep your voice, I’m headed out to buy a shitload of batteries.
Doc Rivers can’t cure Ben either. Or Popovich. I’m sure he’s got sports psychologists but, if Ben can’t get over the Yips or whatever he’s got, it’s on him. Luke’s bad enough already w/o the unrealistic expectations. Coaches rebuild teams, players are their own responsibility.
Soft as Kleenex.
He still can’t get over getting dumped for Booker.
When Ron Artest came to the Kings he averaged 17, 5, and 4. Shot 39% from the field, 30% from 3. He also lead the Kings to their last playoff series.
Simmons just averaged 14, 7, and 7, also shot 30% from 3 (albeit on 10 attempts), but 55% from the field.
Just saying sometimes it’s not all about PPG.
I get that, but he is not Ron Artest. Everyone feared him.
I have always, and will always root for Ron-Ron.
He’s nearly the same w/o all the Psychopathologies.
“Gut our team”.
Oh boy. Let’s be clear on something. No player on this team is off limits. If you have a chance to get a top 20 player in the League that can instantly bring an identity and premier attribute, including one we were abysmal at last year, you do it.
You can argue Fox is special. I agree. Incredible speed, competitive, good court vision. But you are not getting Simmons without wincing a bit when you read the deal. That’s the way this works.
We’re 15 years into a playoff drought that has turned into a national punchline. If you can significantly rattle the team’s DNA to possibly take a mammoth leap forward and change the style of the team’s game, top to bottom, you do it.
Objectively, can a guy that can’t, and what’s worse, won’t shoot, possibly be a top twenty player in the NBA?
Rec’d
Objectively? Well, there are a number of all-around style stats (VORP, RAPM, RAPTOR Wins) that say he’s either been in top 20 or close to it multiple times. And he’s been an All-NBA 3rd team selection. So there’s a good handle of voters that thought he was somewhere around the top 10-25-ish player (depend on how you see the positional balance) that season. So, yeah, if we want to talk about “objectively,” I’d say a guy like that can. Since a guy exactly like that was by objective criteria.
The numbers are the numbers, and I’m not one to argue with them, but they serve a more static quantitative analysis, and in this case, a qualitative one may provide a clearer answer.
I guess the question comes down to whether, in a fictional scenario, two ten-man squads were being chosen for a winner-take-all death match, would Ben Simmons be on one of those rosters?
For me, the answer is no. Clock running down, the ball swings back to Simmons who is eighteen feet from the hoop. I’m not sure I’d bet anything on him coming through, and certainly not my life.
He doesn’t even need to become a prolific scorer to be a top twenty player, just an average one. I wouldn’t bet my life on that, either.
Ben Wallace?
Top 20 player? Pass the dutchie to the left hand side.
It’s Kutchie
Simmons and Fox on the same team helps bring in free agents too. Not that any will be amazing but people will want to play with them.
According to Amick (paywall), Fox and Hali are off the table in talks with Simmons and the Kings core are likely going into camp together.
Good luck Doc!
We’ll see how things look in a couple of weeks, or a month.
Morey can’t acknowledge it, but Philly is over a barrel, barring some great change in their relationship with Simmons. I hope that the league remains firm in not giving in to Morey’s demand for an overpay.
Ultimately, I believe this is the right move by Monte. I think the Fox/Hali pairing can be really special if everything goes right even though Simmons in sac would be enticing (as a playmaking/defensive 4, not my lead guard).
This is good news. Glad Monte is staying firm. He doesn’t want to be seen as getting fleeced by his old boss. I really do think we have some solid, young players. Another year of seasoning and they will be better than last year. A potentially unhappy Buddy and Bagley are a concern, but let’s see what happens as the season starts. Wins make things a lot better.
Kings can’t get this done without a third team, or trading Fox (don’t even consider it!). Sixers are in win now mode, so they need shooting, and someone to run the point. Kings can only provide that if Hali runs the point for them, and he’s not ready for a championship run. So kings need to find a PG out there on a team that’s young and rebuilding who they will trade for our draft picks or young players plus Maxey. Dragic, Sexton, or Beverly are the only ones who get that done that I can think of. Sadly Beverly is on a team that wants to trade for Simmons too…
I love the debate and points of view here. Oftentimes it seems a lot of folks are beating the same way drum though. No offense meant. Appreciate all of you.
No Fox. Fox is already a closer. Who would you rather have on the court in the last 2 minutes, Fox or Ben? I think Fox is better than Ben now and will be so going forward. No Tyrese. I want to see what he can become. Smart, high character, can play both guard positions. Will continue to improve and still on his rookie deal for a while. Now some combination of Bagley, Buddy, TD, plus one pick and a pick swap, OK. Really prefer to keep Mitchell, Holmes, and Barnes, too. I don’t think the Kings should be desperate to make this trade.
Putting Simmons aside, can a guy that has never played a single high stakes NBA game, a playoff game or even put up a winning season be a “closer.” I mean, “closing” by definition means you’re closing out a win.
And, of course, there’s the fact that a bucket in the middle of the 2nd quarter is worth just as much as one at the end of the 4th. Great players play complete games. Great teams win games by executing throughout the game. Not by waking up in the 4th.
I’m surprised you came with this take BHE.
Fox is a “closer”, but also he tries to get his teammates involved and going early before he goes for his own. I don’t want to bash Simmons to make Fox seem better, but Ben can ONLY pass, he is not a threat to score like Fox. Fox was what, 3rd in the league in 4Q scoring AND he scored 25 a game. Don’t act like he didn’t score throughout the game (cuz he wasn’t averaging 25 per 4Q), he just takes over in the 4th. The problem is that the Kings don’t have the other players necessary to close out a game with defense.
You don’t have to be in the playoffs to make clutch shots. Let’s not pretend that the other players on the team don’t make a difference. I know I don’t need to put up the rosters for you as a comparison. Has Fox ever played with anyone like Embiid, Harris, or Butler? No, the best player he’s ever had next to him is Hali.
I can’t believe people keep bringing up TEAM achievements and pointing to Ben as if he was the leader of those teams or was the reason they won, its ridiculous. He was the 3rd best player most years and he might be the 3rd best player on a team with Fox and Hali.
I hope we get Ben as I think he could work on a team with Fox and Hali, but if Philly won’t take what we have to offer, then I can’t wait to watch them implode. I just hope no one caves into Morey’s lunacy.
Fox can’t be a closer if this team hasn’t sniffed .500 basketball since before the i-phone was invented. I think hanging our hopes on Fox, whom I love, as the best player on th eteam will give us more of the same for the next decade.
Damn near every team has a 20+point scorer, but that doesn’t mean they would be one a good playoff team. Simply put, if Fox is going to be the alpha I don’t have a whole lot of hope for the playoffs in the near future.
You could have said the exact same thing about Devin Booker last year. He gets another decent player with him and has a good playoff run, suddenly people are talking about him top 20 player in the league.
One may not think Fox is alpha and maybe that’s fair, but surrounding talent matters a lot when discussing wins and losses and whether a guy has that capability to “be the man”. Unless your a flat top 10 guy like Luka, Harden, Lebron etc., who is with you matters a lot if going to make the playoffs.
Could not agree more. Context is king.
Serious question – are we hell bent on keeping Barnes as well? Doesn’t he seem expendable if we were able to get Simmons?
The problem is that Barnes is the only true Wing we have on the roster (besides Louis the King), we need more Wings and if we swapped Barnes for Simmons, then we are still light on Wings, even if the overall talent is upgraded.
Got it, makes sense. Thanks!
I don’t know.
Badge Legend