Welcome back to Chainmail!
It has certainly been a week here in the insanity that is our Kings fandom.
- The Kings have won five of their six games since Tyrese Haliburton joined the starting lineup, and De’Aaron Fox is LEADING THE NBA IN SCORING during that stretch
- And speaking of future top-10 guards in the NBA, Tyrese Haliburton hasn’t been bad himself during this stretch, averaging 16.3 points, 2.3 rebounds, and 4 assists on 52/52/93 shooting splits
- Outside of the on-court play, Monte McNair participated in the trade deadline for the first time since taking over as Sacramento’s GM
- Harrison Barnes, Richaun Holmes, and Marvin Bagley III were mentioned in multiple trade rumors, but all three contributors stuck around through the deadline
- The Kings traded Cory Joseph and two future second round picks for Delon Wright, adding about $6.2 million to their offseason cap sheet
- The Kings traded a future second round pick for Terence Davis
- The Kings traded Nemanja Bjelica for Moe Harkless and Chris Silva
- The Kings cut Jabari Parker and Mfiondu Kabengele to make room for their new additions
- And finally, it’s been made clear through media sources that Sacramento is all-in on pushing for the 10th seed in the Western Conference. Play-in tournament, here we (maybe) come!
Now get to asking, so we can get to answering!
Honestly thought that Mcnair was hopefully something new. But I should’ve expected that whoever Vivek hires will always have his ear. I was too naive to think that Mcnair and Vivek were on different paths, and that Monte would do the smart thing and sell high. I was wrong once again.
The wheels on the bus…
Hi Timmy,
Would you mind providing links to the details of the equitable trade offers involving either Barnes, Hield, or Holmes, that were presented to McNair, and which he presumably walked away from?
I would like to see them, so that I can make sure that my level of anger is appropriate, and not completely misplaced. Thanks, buddy!
I appreciate your dedication to these ð Bc I agree.
Exactly. I will pass judgement on the moves that were made, not the ones I wanted made but may not have been materialized possibilities. Of the moves made, I don’t see any clear stinkers. We didn’t get “had,” and, for us, that’s probably a win in and of itself. If the choice is make a bad move or make none at all, I’ll take the latter.
Did we add talent? Well, Wright is clearly an upgrade over Joseph, so yes. Will it be enough to move the needle in any meaningful way? Probably not, but we’ll see I guess.
Did I want the team to fully commit to the tank because I blindly see the top of every draft class containing our franchise savior? Absolutely. It’s fun to theorize about potential, because “you never know, this guy could be an all-timer!” (No Doncic comments here please.)
Regardless, will I root for this team to win now (rather than tank) since I now know that that is what they’re shooting for? Yes. The schedule is easier now, and with Fox and Tyrese playing like they are, who knows, maybe we’ll have something to actually, realistically hope for.
You don’t think there was a market for at least 2 out of the 3? Let me get my man Woj and my backup dealer Shams so I can get the full details and behind the scenes stuff that no one can.
The problem with this trade deadline is not what we sent and we got in return in a vacuum. It’s the signaling of the path we are taking. We don’t have the talent to compete in this league and I’m in the opinion that we should get as much draft capital as we can since no other major superstar will sign here.
All we did was reshuffle the deck chairs and add fake win potential. For me, if we’re pining for the playoffs, I’d rather not be that team that comes in and have a ceiling of a 2nd rd. exit. 15 years now, what’s a couple years more of drafting high level talent?
The ceiling of a second round exit would be a dream. Right now our ceiling is the play-in game. I would like it to be higher but at the moment that seems like the goal.
For this season? Absolutely. But overall with Fox as the guy? That’s what it looks to be.
Yeah you could be right. I do think with even semi-competent (Ha!) leadership this team will probably make the playoffs with Fox and Haliburton in the next few years.
What Orlando did was what I wished the Kings did. We’re bad anyway, might as well be bad for a couple years and go for Cade.
Would you have traded Fox? I mean, he’s basically the Kings’ Vuc. Tough call.
You’re right, hard to say. But knowing the talent in the next 2-3 year draft, a good offer would’ve probably enticed me. I think it would’ve taken more than Vuc’s haul. Because of talent + age + contract/control.
A Fox in the hand is worth two in the draft.
sneaky little fox, i see what you did there.
Draft talent is mostly speculation based on potential ! Jabari a great example with many other so- called sure things ! Fox and Hali are proven wins to date !
I wouldn’t trade Fox now for any other PG in the league. All the good ones are north of 30.
Well, if he can sustain what he has been doing lately, he’s in-his-prime Westbrook with less defense but better offensive efficiency. That will be the next step for him – playing at a high level consistently.
That said, there are a lot of good young PGs. Doncic, Simmons, Jamal Murray, Young, Morant, LaMelo looks a lot better than I thought he would. For Fox to join the ranks of Doncic, Simmons and Murray, consistent high level play will be a must.
I think that Haliburton helps him a lot with his style of play, and Haliburton’s new stepback three is an eye opener. They could become a dynamic backcourt for years to come.
I’m with you. He has a chance to be the best player that we have seen in Sac. in a long, long time. You’re not going to get better by trading him right now.
I feel like Murray and Fox are actually in the same tier. They both give us glimpses of superstardom, but lack consistency. Mitchell probably fits in that group as well. Fox just hasn’t been paired with a Jokic/Gobert level big man.
We all know only one team can win each year right? And probably 4-5 teams have real shots at winning in any given year? Has Portland had any real hopes besides 2nd round exit over the past ten years or so (Yes they made WCF once)? Not really, they are never mentioned as title contenders really.
But damn if they aren’t entertaining and consistently good. Could the Kings get to that level with some decent moves? I don’t see why not with the trajectory of this backcourt.
You get lucky draft wise or make some genius bold trade who knows what develops in terms of championship contender. But let’s get bounced in the first or second round multiple years before we start fixing the roster for that championship run. With a few exceptions almost all teams go through that process and then adjust their team accordingly.
We don’t know what deals were offered, but the Magic got Hampton, a 2025 protected first and no salary relief for the coming year for Gordon. If that was the offer for Barnes, I say no thanks too. That might make sense if you were totally stripping it down and getting the additional assets they got with the Vuc deal, but Kings weren’t getting those type of assets without offering Fox or Hali, which would make no sense right now.
It’s disappointing because we all geared up for yesterday and wanted to see something change, but that doesn’t mean the right moves weren’t made based on what was presented to the FO.
They are definitely fun, no denying that as I turn the TV on for our backcourt. But the problem is we lack talent and all I’m saying is that I’d rather go all in with accumulating high level talent through draft picks and get an OKC level boom where we just go out and destroy teams.
I think playoff experience is valuable especially for our young guys but I don’t want us to be stuck in that 6th-11th team range of competitive but not enough.
Fair enough. I’ve been all aboard the tank train for years…I mean Tankthon has popped up in my most frequented websites sadly. Feel though this year, without blowing it up totally and trading Fox/Hali (which I wouldn’t be willing to do) I think it would be hard to get inside that top 5. Probably not a ton of difference between 7-14 but none of us really know.
Early OKC hit Hall of Famers on 3 straight top 4 picks…it looked great obviously. I don’t think that is a repeatable very often though based on draft histories. But if you do nail it, it looks genius.
Probably just goes to one’s general level of risk taking.
Lol tankathon has been my most frequented ever since it’s conception, right next to Bryant’s draft analysis (Really miss SPTSJUNKIE’s as well). But I think you catch my drift.
OKC was a playoff team prior to reset. Meaning they had higher level assets that other teams were willing to trade higher level assets (good picks, good youth) for. Sacramento did not have any proven commodity to sell. I try to look at it that we aren’t any worse off. Like Bags and Holmes for Love, or some other Vlade albatross. Wait and see, it is your only choice anyway.
So, you’re saying that there’s really nothing upon which you can legitimately lay your anger.
And of course there was a market for each of those players, in tandem or separately. That isn’t even remotely the same thing as saying that there were any actual opportunities to move them that would have returned a good or even fair result for the Kings.
I think that when the dust settles, the roster will be stronger 1-15 than before the deadline, but I can’t get myself to believe that any of the trades were done with the goal of reaching the playoffs this year. Over the remaining 20+ games, I don’t think the improvements will ultimately make the difference.
Frankly, I have no interest in staggering in at the ten-seed to the potential detriment of draft position. I’m all about the tank, but I also feel that what Fox & Haliburton are creating together right now might be worth the slippage.
As ever, I’m conflicted.
Yea I’m not upset or angry at all as I’ve become very apathetic about the state of Kangz basketball. I just have a different approach as to what I consider success.
And I’ve been very happy with the Monte hire and the Hali pick as he clearly is knowledgeable and talented. But I wish his ideology isn’t as aligned as Vivek’s win at all costs approach. And it was wishful thinking on my part that we are having a soft Hinkie rebuild.
I don’t think any of us really knows what his ideology is, and I wouldn’t simply guess that his strategies are the same as Ranadive. I also don’t believe that McNair takes a job where he’s hamstrung by the owner, when he had other opportunities, including remaining in Houston.
When McNair was interviewed, he was also interviewing Ranadive. I can’t imagine that they don’t cover the specifics of McNair’s autonomy as the man in charge. General Manager of the Sacramento Kings isn’t the most plum gig out there, and no one would accept the job if it came with the kinds of theoretical controls that some have insisted are impacting McNair’s ability to do the job.
Of course, it would be best of ownership stayed out of management’s way, but at the very least, he shouldn’t be commenting about things that relate to the GM’s job duties, including trades, free agents, the draft, lineups, none of it.
I agree with that. Vivek should stay as far away as possible. But my argument is that he wouldn’t be hired if they weren’t of the same mindset at least on some cases (like building around Fox). I disagree with that approach.
I just really think that their view on things as it stands looks like win-now. For example, I loved the Whiteside deal not because I’m being a contrarian or anything. Rather because I think he has value and we can flip him at the deadline eventually, even for a 2nd rounder. And like you said, it could be a matter of no one wants _x_ player. But surely there should be a market for these types of players, especially for a positive impact big man and the mounting injuries as the season goes on. The competing for the playoffs PR this year isn’t really swaying my mind.
Also not saying that the Hinkie approach is the be-all end-all of all roster construction but rather that is one of the most effective ways to build a team.
I never said that no one wants these players. There was a lot of interest expressed, particularly regarding Barnes and Holmes. Plenty of people get excited when the new Ferarris hit the showroom, but most of us aren’t willing to meet the asking price. Yelling at the salesperson because he won’t take your Hyundai and ten grand cash in exchange is a misinterpretation of the commodity’s value.
I also don’t think that it’s crazy or bad if McNair and Ranadive are on the same page in attempting to build around Fox, even if their plans for doing so are very different. It’s certainly possible that there are other, better plans, but like-mindedness about this shouldn’t be an indictment of McNair.
Broken clocks, and all of that.
Ferrari’s are boring.
I like this analogy, except that you’re the buyer, not the salesperson.
The Hyundai is broken and you need a new car, and after shopping around you stomp home complaining about not being able to get a Ferrari, so you’re just going to sit on your hands instead. And then when your partner and kids are pissed, your position is “Prove to me that someone offered me a Ferrari!”
The problem is that your broke ass Hyundai isn’t worth shit. So quit bitching about the Ferrari and trade the Hyundai for whatever you can, because no one is going anywhere in a broken car.
I’d say as far as Barnes/Hield/Holmes were concerned, and as I understand it, none of them being moved is the source of contention, Monte McNair was absolutely the salesman. I can’t seem to see it as you’ve suggested, that McNair was the buyer.
In order to have made drastic changes with the future in mind, it was always going to take at least one of our guys being moved.
It is a myopic argument we don’t have talent when Marvin and CoJoSlo and Bjelica and their many flaws have been interfering with the talent that we do have along with a coach not maximizing the resources available to him.
Fox is emerging as unstoppable. He went from 20 PPG to 28 PPG in the last 25 games. The league has NO answer for him. He is discovering how easy it is for him to score and takeover games. His talent is emerging with Ty, another guy who can have his way to an All-Star level. Ty is way ahead of Fox as a rookie.
So the Kings record of 5 games under .500 does not account for the growth curve of these two players, a mistake the Doomers make in their doomer assessment.
And with our trades and Marvin sidelined, more talent in the form of Guy, Metu, Jefferies, Wright can step forward and add to the mix unabated by “fly in the ointment” type players.
If you fail to see this nuance or development, you are not a sophisticated or nuanced observer of the Kings. No offense, that is fine if you just want to analyze the team casually and arrive at ill-informed opinions, but don’t be surprised when your perceptions prove incorrect, as reflected in last nights 140 point trouncing on the second of a back-to-back with a second unit who had never seen time together.
It is only the jaded and cynical and Kings fans “traumatized” by the years of incompetence that fail to see these very positive encouraging developments.
Guess what my friends, basketball is a game and a diversion and there is nothing to be traumatized about!
It is a new day and a new dawn, we have a superstar and McGenius at the helm!
Now that does not mean we have all the talent we need. What we do need is WINGS. Maybe one will be Metu. Metu is more promising than Bagley. I do not think it is Woodward. I do not think it is Harkless. Maybe Silva can step up from the Heat trade? And maybe DaQuan Jefferies establishes himself more as a 3 and D guy….
This team needs 1-2 more quality wings with size and length and speed to complement Barnes. There is not enough depth or versatilty there and this hurts us on the boards, rotations and our passing game.
There is a 70-85% chance McGenius will get us a 6’7″ to 6’9″ skilled wing no matter where we are drafting.
A trouncing of a Dubs team missing their best defender and the best shooter ever? The team they fielded last night was like a middling G-league team. They still managed to score 119 lol.
I mean, I’m just being realistic. Obviously I want Fox to be a superstar and prove me wrong. I’m in that side. But he has to show me consistency for a full season for me to be wholly in superstar camp.
a lot of people have been confusing doomer theory with realism. And that’s fine because there’s really not much to say about a franchise that hasn’t seen the playoffs since the Bibby era.
I’m feeling this hard core right now too. But its helpful to remember the new draft lottery odds. Minnesota, with the WORST overall record, has a 52% change of picking in the top 4. That is, they have a 48% chance of picking 5. With the WORST record…
While I completely agree that we should have gotten draft capital. The new lottery odds walk me off the edge a little bit. We are still going to be a lottery team with a 15-25% chance of top 4. Almost certainly CHI is going to finish with a better record than us with Vuc. AND we’re going to get Fox and Hali meaningful games down the stretch to try for the play-in. Slightly less depressed than yesterday when viewing it from that lens.
A look at the market and at what Orlando was fetching in trading Aaron Gordon and Evan Fournier might give us a glimpse of the market value of Barnes and Hield, though Fournier’s expiring is certainly more palatable than Hield’s longer deal. One could reasonably assume that Holmes’ small expiring contract and his current level of play would be attractive to teams.
We have seen what Orlando and OKC have done over the past few months, unloading players and contracts and amassing players and picks. It may not be the right way for the Kings, but if it was an option for those teams, one can again reasonably assume that it was an option for the Kings.
I think what removes that option is De’Aaron Fox. He begins his big contract next year, and I don’t think that the Kings can afford a Bradley Beal scenario with Fox, which is why McNair and Co. are trying to thread this narrower needle of re-tooling instead of blowing the whole thing up.
I write this as a person that is not terribly upset with the trade deadline inactivity. I think that Barnes is very malleable, and if the Kings add talent he can adjust to whatever his revised role would be. And he is the rare locker room voice that is important enough to the team to be listened to. Hield is frustrating to watch in Walton’s system, and I am a bit concerned about the Kings overpaying to retain Holmes. I would have traded Whiteside for a ham sandwich, but to your point, maybe a ham sandwich was never offered.
So my arse-pulled guess is that the Kings were offered some level of prospects and/or picks for Barnes and Holmes, and perhaps Hield came up in the conversations as well. And management determined that the compensation did not justify making the deals. The result of those decisions, like the decision to not match on Bogi or the decision to draft Haliburton, rests on their shoulders.
In other words, it really doesn’t matter what we do and don’t know about what the Kings were and were not offered at the trade deadline. All that matters is the results. It will be interesting to see how the Kings, Thunder and Magic all look in one, two, three, four and five years.
Just for me, and our opinions may differ with this, is that if we’re competing for playoffs in this day and age, it takes 2-3 superstars to win the chip. Deaaron is nice as is Hali. But it looking more like Blazers 2.0 where Dame is the lone superstar (I’m being extremely generous with Fox’s ceiling) with borderline-backup all stars CJ (Hali) and Nurk (no one).
Basically we need more talent. FWIW I’m not saying Monte can’t draft a good player with a lower draft pick rather I’d rather pick at the Top 5 knowing that Monte has shown he can pick the right player and a Top 5 gives him a higher chance. (SSSI approved)
The Trailblazers certainly are the likely blueprint to build a respectable team out of a smaller franchise like the Kings. Nice that we have the backcourt set, but I’m totally in agreement with you that we need more talent. Barnes, Holmes, and Hield are nice players, but they aren’t gonna take your team to the next level. Honestly, Barnes is the only one of those three that is a starter on a title contending team, and a 4th-5th option at that. And since players aren’t gonna sign with Sacramento, I am aligned with your thinking that the best way to get that talent is via the draft/player development. I think Fox and Hali need a go-to scorer to maximize their potential. With the offensive burden off of Fox’s shoulders, and another threat for both him and Hali to pass to, I can see the team becoming extremely dynamic and moving the ball well for open looks on offense. Then you need some defensive support. Put a high-volume scoring wing, a tough as nails 3 and D big man, and a versatile complementary forward (Barnes works) into the mix with these guys and I think you’re really getting somewhere. To my mind, that puts us exactly one All-Star wing and starting caliber big man away from being the 4-6 seed in the West year in, year out. I was hoping to get the wing in this draft and the big man via trade (Myles Turner </3), but…I guess we’ll just have to see!
So we are already almost capped out with Hali on a rookie contract, but we still need an All Star wing, a 3/D big man (Turner at 18 mill apparently) and keep Barnes around…just to get into the middle of the playoff race?
Assuming this All Star wing was drafted and on a rookie contract, as soon as he gets good and to that All Star level, Hali will be up for an extension. And then that wing up for an extension. And now DeAaron is exiting his extension and looking for even bigger extension because he made a couple All Star games. But we are still managing to keep our Barnes/Turner type role players at 15+ mill a piece?
There is a reason OKC did trade Harden…even if you do a great job at nailing your picks, it’s hard to keep a team like that together.
There are few examples of teams over the last 20 years that keep a core of 3-4 guys together and that is what sustains their long run of success. More often the teams that are consistently successful have 1-2 dudes and then the pieces change around them. Having a stable coach, GM and ownership obviously plays a factor in that. We can hope for 2 out of the 3.
Hope Vivek likes the luxury tax under this scenario.
My plan gets us a solid 3-6 years of fun competitive basketball ala the Trailblazers or Jazz but it sounds like you’ve figured out how to get us all the way to the Finals so let’s hear it! 🙂
Huh…I repeated your plan back and played out likely scenario. I think your plan created a championship contender and you insinuated A LOT was needed to try and get into that 4-6 seed. An All Star scoring wing, 3/D big man ala Myles Turner and keep Barnes.
I think just getting another quality wing (not all star) and a couple decent bench pieces makes this a fun competitive team in the thick of playoff race
You blame Walton for Hields issues. Are you going to blame Walton for global warming next. Not to say Walton is Popavich but that’s a ridiculous assertion.
The real issue with the trade deadline is not the moves the Kings didn’t make but the conflicting nature of the moves they did make.
I’m of the idea in that not one person is to blame but the org as a whole.
That seems like a reasonable assessment. I don’t think Walton has helped but Buddy himself surely shoulders some of the blame as well. And why is Walton the coach? Terrible front office decision making. Plenty of blame to go around.
Plenty of blame to go around, no debate about that. Do you want to elaborate how Walton’s system is Buddy’s problem. That guy doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about.
The system has nothing to do with it. Buddy shooting splits for March (45% FGs 42% from 3s) are aligned to his career average. Did Walton change the system in March?
Buddy is playing a little too heavy, muscle and body fat, though I think he may be leaning out a little. He looks more fit than he did 4-6 weeks ago.
Look back in 2018-19, his best season, he was moving better then, getting to his spots quicker and changing ends better.
He cannot afford to be suboptimal in terms of his fitness when he was already operating at an athletic disadvantage against most opponents.
I don’t know if playing SF is the solution, but I dont think it has hurt him. And playing with Guy and Wright if this coach enables that will further enable him to get clean looks.
Between Guy, Wright, Fox and Ty, Buddy should be feasting on open threes and has NO reason to try to get overly creative trying to create on his own.
I think that Buddy has a bit too much muscle for his own good, but questioning his fitness is ridiculous. He practices and works out as hard as anyone out there.
I think being open on every transition play tremendously upped his play. (Joerger years).
If you look at his physique from 2-3 years ago, he had more muscle definition. But he has not lost muscle I do no believe, so the reason he is less defined (sculpted) is because of extra body fat. That is fitness in my book.
Sure Buddy works hard. That does not mean he is not also having an extra slice of desert.
He looks good physically and he is putting together his best month in March. He is still not moving like he was though. I would like to see him drop another 10 pounds even if he does stay at the 3. He needs all the quickness he can muster.
I have speculated before that Buddy may have been impacted more than people realize from COVID. A 5% decrease in respiratory capacity may not land an elite athlete on home oxygen but may be the difference between good and mediocre, in his case. Hopefully I’m wrong, but we are seeing long COVID effects in more younger people than we would wish.
Are you going to give Walton credit for Fox’s performance and Holmes’ improvement?
100% agree. Walton being there isn’t helping as almost everyone had a record year with Joerger.
Perhaps the quid pro quo Monte extracted from Viveck in return for making a run at the playoffs was the replacement of Walton this offseason, even if the team rallies to .500 by seasons end. Perhaps. No evidence of that to present, just a thought as to why what appears to be a shift from what we have read was the blueprint to acquire talent via the draft.
I think that’s correct.
Hield was a lot better and fun to watch when he was playing for Joerger.
Walton probably does contribute to global warming due to his inability to keep his mask over his face, but that is really not germane to the conversation.
You seem fun.
Absolutely agree on Joerger Buddy vs. Walton Buddy. When Hield runs to the corner on fastbreaks and runs for spots ups in the halfcourt, it’s a beautiful thing. When he tries to create, a turnover is inevitable. Most recent example: last night, when he threw the ball behind his man, and out of bounds.
The comments are getting even more ridiculous now. Buddy threw the ball behind his man, Walton’s fault? Are you kidding me.
Buddy being put into a position to create offense off the dribble, because Walton does not run a system utilizing his strengths is the point.
I think what people are trying to say is that Buddy definitely has bone headed plays but the way Walton is using him is head scratching especially trying to make him a playmaker when he is best used as a Klay type player.
The way he was used under Joerger is the best example of this difference.
I had Tacos El Carbon last night watching the game, heavy on the black frijoles. Walton should not be blamed for my gas today. I am the culprit via a vis global warming. Upon these broad shoulders….you did make me laugh Rob.
I agree that Joeger’s run, run, run system played to Buddy’s strength’s, I think he was the most exciting player to watch that year, a perpetual motion machine. I don’t pound the table for Walton to be replaced, however, I respect the opinions of those who do, but I do think it is time to see what a top flight young talented coach could do with this team, someone that Monte hired, as opposed to the previous GM.
I am. I had a lot of fun as a Lady Brave playing with Kayte and subsequently a lot of fun playing for UC Davis and your comments about Kayte I find distasteful and I doubt you’ve ever dribbled a basketball. So keep at little man you seem to a small following of sheep.
You have to remember little man Bo Peep has his sheep and he plays to them and his childish comments about Kayte Hunter are his way of playing to the sheep. He’s never played, coached or accomplished anything in basketball.
100% agree with you. Don’t worry he’ll get a bunch of thumbs up for that comment about Buddy in Walton’s system as ill informed as it is. He doesn’t know the difference between a flex pick and a flex capacitor.
1.21 gigawatts!!
So, we can infer nothing from the fact that Hield was making a case for all-star inclusion under Joerger, but has become an erratic turnover machine under Walton?
Shooters do not just forget how to shoot.
Exactly, and obviously. It’s absurd to argue Walton has nothing to do with Hield’s issues.
sometimes..
Ultimately it is about results, but results don’t always accurately portray the work and effort that went into the attempt.
There just seems to be a lot of equating desired goals with actual results, and it’s hardly uncommon for them to be wildly divergent.
I don’t know that it matters when we are talking about the NBA and its decision makers. Their environment is pretty much 100% results driven.
Some folks began questioning Vlade sooner than later. While they were going largely off of gut or feeling, turns out they were right. After 14 consecutive years of shitnanigans and the worst on-court run of any Sacramento Kings ownership, I sure understand why some fans might be reticent to give this organization credit for its non-moves.
Ultimately the results are all that matter, but the implication that McNair botched trade opportunities lack all substance. If, for example, Ainge offered Langford and a middling pick for Barnes, then I guess Barnes is going to remain.
As has been said my persons far more elegant than myself, you can’t put ten pounds of shit into a five-pound bag. All Ainge did yesterday was get himself a couple more five-pound bags. I’m sure McNair would have liked to accomplish more, but in this case, nothing beats the hell out of Boston’s something.
Using that logic – and it is quite logical – we can no longer have conversations that put forth opinion about anything until after the results are in. That is, we can now have conversations about the Divac era, but to have that conversation in real time was capricious, as we did not have the final result while the conversation was going on. We cannot, for example, have an opinion about whether or not the Kings will make the playoffs this year. All we can do is have a factual conversation that they did not make the playoffs last year.
I posit that the opinion that McNair botched trade opportunities lack exactly as much substance as the opinion that he did not botch trade opportunities. And the fact that none of us were behind those closed doors cuts both ways, does it not?
Opinions about the results, and implying incompetence or stupidity as the reason for those results are very different things. The latter is pervasive here.
I’m not so much asserting that McNair didn’t necessarily botch a trade deal, as I am putting things that we do know onto the scale.
The market for Barnes appeared to have been cooling, with talk of Ainge not offering much, and being disinclined to bend. There was an article saying that McNair had asked about Marcus Smart, which seems to me to be fair, and also shrewd. Opinions vary about Smart, but it seems as though most people agree that he’s a good presence to have around. There was some mostly vague talk about Denver, but the discussed return for Sacramento didn’t seem to make it a compelling move.
The talk about Holmes had been primarily focused on Toronto and Charlotte. If it occurred to us that receiving Bridges from the Hornets would be solid return, then I think we have to concede that it also occurred to McNair. (Feel free to make arguments that this couldn’t possibly have happened. I love batting practice.) And speaking of Toronto, one of the best General Managers in sports failed in his attempt to trade away an expiring Kyle Lowry, with the likely result that they end up with empty hands. I’m too lazy to see what Raptors fans are saying. I mean, they’re Canadian, who cares? I’d not be surprised if some fans were blasting Ujiri for not making a trade, but it would not surprise me if that sentiment was much more muted than here. Admittedly, the Kings are a unique situation, but that doesn’t mean we get to throw logic out the window.
To my knowledge, no one was willing to give up much for Hield, but that hasn’t slowed down any of the outrage that revolves around him still playing in Sacramento. Would trading Hield have helped us re-sign Holmes? That would be my guess. Does that mean he should have been dealt for a couple of second-round picks? I think Orlando got ripped off in trading Fournier, but his contract expires this year, and not two years from now, so they were under the gun to get anything.
This constitutes a portion of my reasoning behind the assertion that McNair probably played things correctly. I’ve not heard a single thing to back up the claim the he completely fucked the dog on this, but I’m certainly willing to listen.
This kind of makes my point while re-enforcing your earlier point:
We don’t know, either way. And that’s fine. I respect your opinion and take. I also respect the take that McNair spit the bit. And as it pertains to each of these opinions, we weren’t in the room, so we just don’t know. All we have is our reasoning, gut, biases, etc. Vive(k) la difference!
That last sentence should get you banned for reasons I’m unable to articulate.
And of course, we don’t know either way, but I’d still love a counterargument based on things that are known. I’m incredibly open-minded to evidence, and willing to listen to even hints of it.
You’re misrepresenting the argument. I certainly don’t argue that McNair botched trade opportunities. How would I know? I argue that his job is to make meaningful improvements to the team and not only did he not accomplish that, he didn’t make any real movement in that direction.
I don’t expect it to happen overnight. And it’s certainly possible it could happen all at once, with the right trade. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect movement in the direction of improvement, and to question why when that doesn’t happen.
I think it’s very important to ask questions, and I apply that to almost everything in life. I haven’t seen questions. I’ve seen statements again and again that because Barnes/Hield/Holmes all remain on the roster, that McNair must have fucked up.
I supplied the information that I had about all of those players, and shared it, even though we all had access to the same info. Based on the knowns, the logic sends me toward the opinion that McNair didn’t make a move with any or all of them, because fair return was never on the table. And while it is merely an opinion, I have supplied the reasoning used to build it, and still, no one has bothered to say that those factors are false.
I’m still waiting for someone to do the same work in order to help me understand that, no, McNair did have viable offers on the table for one or all, and because he’s stupid/incompetent/VD in disguise, he walked away.
I don’t mind the questions at all, but I will invariably ask for the reasons the questions are being asked. No one has bothered to supply any answers. All that has been offered are statements with nothing to back them. I just want so see the cards that are being used to hold them up, because all I see is statements floating in the air with no visible means of support.
I don’t think anyone is implying that Mcnair is stupid or incompetent, nor do I think that he shit the bed. I’m arguing that this shouldn’t be the proper way to go about things because I am afraid that the ceiling for this roster with Fox as the main guy is not championship.
This may be the thing where we’ll never agree on, Andy.
I mean, those are two very different things.
Also, there have been no shortage of opinions that McNair is incompetent, and blew the trade deadline. They’re everywhere.
Nuance?! How dare you!
(nice write-up)
Would you mind providing links to evidence that it was impossible for McNair to meaningfully improve the team at the trade deadline this season?
I would like to see them, so that I can make sure that my level of anger is appropriate, and not completely misplaced. Thanks, buddy!
The Kings added a player that has a higher VORP this season than Fox. I guess we can quibble on the definition of meaningful, but Wright is absolutely capable of having a significant impact on winning. He’s also on a very affordable deal, so his WS/$ is Holmes-esque.
I never said that it was impossible. The information that I shared about the possibilities surrounding the exits of Barnes/Holmes/Hield indicate that it was going to be a rough ride to obtain fair or usable value in return. That’s where my my opinions are rooted, in what’s known. Persons asserting the opposite have provided nothing other than tiny-fisted rage.
Well Buddy is overpaid. Barnes is overpaid. Holmes we need for that playoff push. I could see why other GMs don’t want Buddy or Barnes. For Holmes, His contract coupled with Buddy or Barnes in a trade would be a player making $27-$30 mil a year. No one is trading their star for Buddy or Barnes+ Holmes. Maybe if he included a 1st round pick but seems like he thinks he’ll pick another Haliburton with the 12th pick. lol
If Evan Fournier(basically the same player as buddy except a free agent after this year) got traded for 2, 2nd rounders, only way a buddy trade would happen is if they traded him with a 1st round pick.
There will be another opportunity to trade players for draft picks right before the draft. Maybe we can have the best of both worlds? Make the play-ins. Presumably Buddy and Barnes would’ve raised their profiles a bit. Then trade our pick and players for a higher pick?
Lol That was a fun thread to read, had to get my popcorn for that one ðð¿
I love having differing opinions on comment threads. I learned a lot more on these threads than I did reading ESPN articles. The amount of knowledge Kings fans have is underrated.
I love the optimism and I hope we do. Though no one in their right mind will let go of a top 5 pick especially this year. It will take multiple firsts and a positive asset (Hali) for them to even consider it. We need these teams to hire Vlade for it to work.
Let’s dream big folks, the Kings are only 3.5 games out of the 8th seed:
I believe they will be aiming for that 8th seed. Play-in at minimum.
Kings don’t control their destiny. They have to hope teams like the Spurs, Dallas, and Portland fall apart. Which, I don’t see happening.
Catching Memphis or an injured Dubs are possible for a 9-10 seed. sure.
Kings schedule is not that easy, as falsely reported.
Utah Jazz 3x
Spurs 3x
Lakers 2x (If Davis or Lebron is back)
Memphis 3x
Dallas 3x
Dubs again
Suns
Bucks
All those teams are playoff teams currently.
Well the Spurs have lost 4 in a row and have the second hardest schedule remaining, so if you are going to use that as your justification for the Kings doing poorly down the stretch then same should apply to Spurs but even more so.
Kings remaining schedule is in the middle. Kings will probably Kangz, but there is reason to think the Spurs could flounder here.
Yeah I think the Spurs are very likely to drop out while the Pelicans are probably more likely to jump up if they can ever get it together. Both the Spurs and Grizzlies are playing a ton of games in the second half of the season because of Covid protocols.
I still don’t think any of what happened yesterday was done with the expectation of increasing the odds of making the play-in. It may happen, but it also may have happened without the moves.
If Wright plays well, then that would help. I don’t think everyone has fully conceptualized how much of an upgrade Wright is over Joseph yet. Most of the catch all stats have Wright in the top ~75 in terms of impact this season. His role and MPG will be different now, but he’s replacing one of the worst rotation players in the NBA this season. That type of swap can help a team win an extra game or two down the stretch.
But I agree, the Kings didn’t make that move based solely on his contribution this season. I think it will be fun to see how they look next season when they can always have multiple playmakers on the floor.
I don’t think they’ll make it because the defense is still abysmal BUT the Warriors are probably going to lose a few games here, the Spurs and Grizzlies are playing a million games in the second half and have difficult schedules because of Covid stuff and the Kings have a really easy schedule aided by teams like the Lakers being without their best players. This is usually right when they Kangz it up but it’s not hard to see the road map to them getting in the play-in game.
All that said, do I think that’s what they should be doing? Of course not! I want them to tank even more so now because it’s pretty clear that Fox and Haliburton are already good and will probably be really good sooner rather than later. Adding Cade or Mobley or Kuminga to those two guys would really give us a foundation that could possible contend for a lot more than a playoff game in a couple years. But this is what the Kings chose and it is what it is and now that the deadline has passed, at this moment there really isn’t a reason not to hope they make the play-in game because that’s what they’re going to try and do anyway.
Yeah it does feel like they’re trying to hit an inside straight. To me, if you’re not going to tank for a top 5 pick, then you may as well fight for the playoffs. It doesn’t feel like a draft in which the 7th pick has a lot more value than the 15th pick. I also believe there’s some value in showing a player like Holmes that the plan is to compete. That can matter if he’s weighing multiple offers of similar $$.
I agree about the inside straight. I think that is what they’re trying to do which is really damn hard to pull off. I also think your point about the 7th pick not being much different than the 15th pick could be spot on. I just wonder if they looked at the board and thought they weren’t getting a top-5 pick without serious lottery luck anyway and decided they might as well just go for the play-in without really hampering their long term flexibility much. As I mentioned yesterday, they basically just improved the bench. There’s no question the bench is better than it was a couple days ago. Wright/Davis/Harkless is orders of magnitude better than whatever they were running out there before.
It is a lottery and their are teams that move up almost every year and teams that lose spots ! I always remember the 17 win season a league worst that netted the 4th pick !
The most depressing part of this “push for the play-in” is that the Kings are currently ahead of only 4 teams in the Western Conference, and 3 of those 4 are actively tanking.
yeah they haven’t really shown much to make people believe they should be fighting for the playoffs. They have 25 games to theoretically change that perception. IMO they’d be in an okay spot if they finished .500 or better. That would feel like a successful season, and would help to start changing the narrative around the team. That sort of thing can help in free agency. Also, one thing I noticed in McNair’s presser is that he mentioned the possibility of trading their FRP this offseason. If they were to do that, I’d assume it would be for a player that is either on the verge of free agency, or extension eligible. I think it’s an easier sell convincing those types of players to commit long-term when they feel like they are there to take a playoff team to the next level versus turning a lottery team into a fringe playoff team.
I should watch that presser when I get home. I’m interested in what Monte said.
He never says much, so everyone will probably hear something different. To me, a couple things stuck out. First, is his definition of value. It feels like we should view each transaction in isolation versus figuring out how each transaction fits into an overarching strategy based on a specific timeline. It feels a lot like dickering. Like I may not need a couch, but my counterpart is willing trade me a couch that’s worth more than the rims they want.
The other part was his thought process going into the draft. It really does seem like he’s willing to move the pick if he believes he can obtain player that can create more value than what he believes is available at their draft slot.
Just listened to him on the Doug and Jason KHTK show. By the positivity busting out of those 3, you would think the Kings are on to great things.
Isn’t it possible that there is something positive happening?
The most interesting thing I thought was the mentioning of Fox, Haliburton and Bagley as the young core. Maybe that’s because he thinks of Hield as an older player, not a young one, or whatever. Doesn’t matter. Just thought it was interesting Bagley was included, mainly.
He’s a measured guy who knows what he wants to say, or more accurately not reveal anything. Honestly I’m surprised he mentioned that his wife had their 3rd child.
Another thing that stuck out to me as we “wanted to be value buyers”. Which means he’s not thinking about timeline in terms of when to trade Barnes, Hield or Holmes, or the draft itself. But rather as an individual transaction as you said that may or may not fit into an overarching theme.
Last but not least I think most people will hear what they want to hear out of him, I suspect. So I 100% agree there.
Sounds like CD just did a big interview with Monte and it’ll be on his show next Wednesday. I will be very interested to hear what he has to say.
Sounds like McNair got the memo that he needs to be a bit more available to the media from a PR perspective. He probably won’t be doing weekly interviews, but hopefully he starts to at least give the flagship a few more of these. He should sit and take questions regarding his performance on a semi-regular basis since the coach and players are required to do it.
At least the 9ers are making real moves
Niners being bold and I like it!
It’s almost like being mediocre isn’t good enough for them. Strange concept I know.
If they make the play-in or playoffs, do you think they will let some fans in the stands?
sure hope so. I think the governor orders take effect in april to resume in person sports.
This is my first time commenting, so I apologize in advance for any errors in decorum I’m about to make. I love Kings Herald. I just tend to lurk..so far! I’m curious if anyone else feels like Kyle Guy may be more of a Seth Curry than a David Stockton (as CD recently referred to him). Walton (and presumable Monte, too) clearly doesn’t have much confidence in Guy, so I’m guessing the Kings will move on from him once the season is over. I think that’s a mistake.
I realize that he is slight (small!), but Guy seems to have a good BBIQ, gets his share of rebounds and assists, and rarely turns the ball over. I loved watching him take charge at Virginia. He can shoot, and he doesn’t fade in the spotlight. His size will always hurt him on defense, but Guy seems to at least know where to go and what to (try to) do.
I often wondered if Walton would have been wiser to give CoJo’s minutes to Guy. And–here’s where I know I will get a lot of downvotes–is Buddy Hield right now really that much more effective than Kyle Guy is?
OK, I’m ready to get punched and kicked for my stupidity! (I’m wearing a sumo suit.)
It was fun to see Guy go for a career high in scoring last night, but the thought in the back of my mind was, “Once these new guards they traded for get here, he’ll be stuck on the end of the bench again.”
Also the Warriors were running a G-League lineup last night
in fairness, Guy has been playing against G leaguers all last year, and he did better last night still.
I’m totally on the Kyle Guy train. He’s a super fun PG3 who could one day be a fun PG2 and I think he should get the chance to prove it. I’m just saying he didn’t hang up last night’s box score against the Bucks or anything.
So Wiseman, Oubre, Bazemore, Looney and Wiggins are G Leaguers !
To your point, Guy had success in an NBA game. The worst NBA game is a few levels above the best G League game.
Exactly. And that pisses me off a bit. I’ve always felt like Kings management does a poor job at recognizing and developing roster resources. “He’s a 2nd round draft pick, so of course he can’t be that good.” It’s sort of automatic with the Kings. Other teams seem to find nuggets there. We tend to assume that a 2nd round pick has to be “filler” at best, so they don’t really get much of a shot to develop. I remember when Seth Curry was here, shooting great, yet there was no chance that they wanted to resign him. Obviously, we saw real stupidity with how Isaiah Thomas was let go, and there have been others.
First of all, welcome, and your name is going to make you very popular in the Kings organization.
I do think that Guy has the heart of a serious player, but that he’s just not big/fast/strong enough to not be a liability on the defensive end. His instincts will help him get deflections and steals, but 75% of the guards in the league only need to stop and rise up in front of him to get clean looks. The only thing holding him back is his size, and there’s just no solution to that problem. I hope he sticks somewhere, he’s fun to watch.
Jimmer is still dropping 70 point games in China …
AMEN
It really is a shame that most NBA players aren’t Chinese nationals.
I agree that he’s just a major defensive liability.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but short point guards can work. J.J. Barea, Jalen Brunson from the mavs are clear examples. We’ll never know though because walton won’t play him outside of garbage minutes. Let’s hope that changes in the second half.
I’m in my 60s. If I had a dollar for every guy who was “just not big/fast/strong enough” yet somehow excelled in the NBA, I could buy a few John Stockton,
Steph Curry, and Steve Nash jerseys.
Welcome! Hope to see you around and posting more often.
Thank you! I’m grateful to be able to participate.
Props for the very Kangz-appropriate username. Welcome!
I remember Jerry Reynolds mentioning Guy as a potential Seth Curry on his podcast ! Mentioned it may take a few years and teams to find the right spot ! Seemed logical and why it won’t happen here !
Do you think any of the players we traded for are with the Kings to start next season?
Just my two cents but I think Delon Wright definitely will be. It sure seems like they are going to do everything possible to move Bagley as soon as possible.
Yes,
Next question.
If I were to guess, Wright will definitely be on the roster next season. Silva and Davis seem to be on an extended tryout, with the added bonus of being RFAs this offseason. Harkless, is probably the one player they brought in specifically for wing depth this season. He’s kind of a weird one to figure out though. His play has really fallen off these last couple seasons. I guess they might consider him a reclamation project of sorts. He’s only 28, and was a fringe starter a couple of seasons ago. They might be able to use one of the smaller exceptions to re-sign him if he’s able to turn things around a bit over the next 25 games.
(sorry Silva has a team option next season)
I’m really quite interested in seeing Silva get some serious burn. He’s an intriguing prospect. Of course, Walton is trying to save his job, so…
Was anyone else incredulous during the Atlanta game that the Kings were well-ahead and pulling away, that Walton left all of the starters in til the buzzer? And during the first game of a back-to-back? God, he sucks.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if McNair is grading Walton based on how many wins this team has by the end of the season. I assume McNair believes Silva can help increase the Kings win total. Otherwise, why would he trade for him?
What should he judge him on. Should he judge him on Fox’s performance or what Holmes is doing or maybe he should judge him on your opinion. Which one of that criteria should he use?
I’m afraid to hear his answer.
Would you please explain what looks like an undertone of hostility? Or am I misunderstanding what’s happening here? Genuinely interested.
Oh it’s not a big deal. I didn’t appreciate the cackling about Kayte Hunter (friend) but it’s just an anonymous blog so we should expect some bantering. Believe me, I don’t worry about it. I’m actually amused by some of the comments.
Well, I think you do a very good job, Kayte.
I’m willing to believe there’s a chance that there’s some larger plan that’s going to come into place to take this team out of the basement (and not settle for just APPEARING in the playoffs, no matter how pitifully, as our top goal), and that maybe these deals are another piece in that plan. None are terrible as is, but it’s now put all us fans into a position where we have to, once again, offer the Kings the benefit of the doubt. The problem is simply that we’ve all given the Kings the benefit of the doubt for 15 years now. I understand some may be resistant to letting Lucy hold the football again. However, Monte will be in position to make his mark this summer. But if this summer comes and goes as quietly as the last, and the proceeding trade deadline goes as quietly as this one, I really don’t know what we’re all holding our breath for. So imo, McNair better have some clarity for us come this offseason or we’re probably just treading water again for another decade or so. I’m disappointed that nothing happened yesterday, but willing to understand the context that maybe the deals weren’t there, maybe McNair doesn’t have the same vision as the media has been trying to force upon the Kings, maybe there’s a plan and it’s just about being a LITTLE more patient. But man…my patience is wearing thin. Anyway, Lucy, here I come!!!!
I agree. And it is perfectly reasonable to think the Kings are closer than many give credit. The starting unit, led by two young guards, is one of the best units in the NBA by the numbers and the team has played stretches of basketball where they looked really good and were beating contending teams. The bench is at the other end of the spectrum and there have been stretches of horrid basketball this season. McNair and company may be banking on growth from the kids and shoring up the bench through offseason trades and free agency to start contending. I hope they are correct. And the moves they just made are in that direction. The bench just got a little bit better at the trade deadline.
When the Kings last started to contend, it started with a Mitch Richmond led playoff birth as the 8 seed in 95′ – 96. There was a subsequent trade of Richmond for Webber and an infusion of talent via Jason Williams (draft #7), Peja (draft #14), and Vlade (FA). The point is that there are a lot of ways to build a team and “the process” that the 76rs popularized is just one and it may not even be the best route. Blowing it up and tanking is not always the best approach. Consistent and incremental improvement can get you there too.
I, for one, will have a lot more fun rooting for wins rather than losses over the next couple of months/years.
To the Kings, thanks for not intentionally tanking. Tanking sucks. In my opinion, the best thing for the Kings as an organization and for the further development of the core players is to make the playoffs, even if they get beat in the first round.
Even IF they get beat in the first round lol
I’m with you. Have a rec.
Q: why was this trade deadline a larger dumpster fire than seasons past?
Follow up: please explain in the form of a song and dance number.
Has Marvin Bagley started his last game for the Sacramento Kings?
I would guess no.
One can dream.
In his presser, Monte says he expects Marvin back this season. Since no surgery was needed.
So what was the objective going into the trade deadline. It seems to me the trades were in direct conflict from one another. The COJO trade was an obvious move to improve the team down the stretch, but the Bjelica move seemed like a longer term play with a flyer on a young player.
Bjelica I’m pretty sure was moved simply as a courtesy. He was otherwise going to walk for nothing so you might as well move him, whether you retain the pieces in return or not. Idk how stoked I am on Moe Harkless so I’m pretty indifferent personally.
I low-key like Moe Harkless…
I think he’s much more interesting in theory than in practice
McGenius did a courtesy to the fanbase by getting rid of two bums who were painful to watch and past their expiration date 12-18 months ago.
Bjelica refused to play for the Kings, allegedly, when Marvin was moved ahead of him on the depth chart. A guy getting paid 7 million dollars refuses to work???
What kind of courtesy do you think was due to him? I don’t think he was due any, we were acting out of our own self-interest.
Getting rid of deadweight and two guys who suck are not conflicting moves. You have seen these guys play basketball, right? They are terrible. We scored 140 points without them on the second of a back-to-back with a 2nd unit that had never been on the floor together for more than garbage time.
McGenius was simply trying to maximize the value for two guys with no future with us or any other team and got the best talent he could get. Simple.
If there was any remaining doubt, the more the Kings win without Bagley, the more likely he will be traded. I don’t see any patience with his development in this scenario. Keeping him around in the final year of his contract, risking arguments with Team Bagley over playing time and usage doesn’t strike me as a good idea. But, maybe, I’m two weeks behind the curve and don’t recognize that it is already obvious that Bagley will be traded. For Bagley to say, I think that Buddy would have to go, and that seems nearly impossible.
“Patience with his development” Maybe that’s an argument 2 years ago.. but at this point there is no more development. the guy can’t stay on the court long enough to even be evaluated.
Bagley has zero trade value.
Bagley should be cut this offseason, he provides nothing but a distraction to this team.
I think part of the problem concerns the predictable physics of pogo sticks.
The implication that anyone in the organization is arguing with Marvin Bagley the Second is ludicrous. He talks, executives roll their eyes. There isn’t even a conversation, let alone an argument.
They might not have hit a home run with these moves, but they can at least put a team on the floor that’s worth watching, that is competitive, and has players I can get behind. I think it’s a better environment for budding stars like Fox and Haliburton.
I think many fans were hoping/expecting to see some combination of Barnes, Buddy, Bagley and Walton gone. Obviously Walton’s situation is a little different. Do you think all four will be here by the start of next season?
Is a Buddy/Bagley package enough for a 1st rounder? They both seem to continue to drive their value down….
My question is, in worst case scenario, if nobody wants Bagley, can the kings buy him out and use the money to resign Holmes or would there still be cap impact of his final year? I guess they can stretch it too. Hopefully someone would be willing to take flyer.
1000% another front office will take our players away for free. If you offered bagley for future seconds, someone would do it. Future firsts, maybe not. Honestly, there’s no need to buy him out.
I can’t see anyone taking Bagley and his $11 mil into their cap for future seconds. It would have to be for some crappy contract in return. But maybe there’s a crappy contract that fits the Kings better. Of course, that doesn’t help with Holmes.
In the offseason someone might take Bagley for free. There’s going to be a lot of cap space out there, I’m sure the Kings can dump him for free.
100% agree. Bagley’s offensive numbers and age mean someone would take him.
I hope you’re right, believe me. But why in anyone’s mind would they take Bagley at 11m, when they could supposedly have guys like Holmes for 15m? It takes about five seconds to see Bagley can’t move well enough to play D on his man, let alone switch on another position player. And he’s had three years to turn his bag of skin, injury prone body into something, but he isn’t interested. Look at Fox’s body in that time, and look at his declining injuries. And you know who else had those meaningless offensive numbers? Jabari on his way to China Parker. Again, I hope you’re right, but I can’t see anyone giving up 11m in cap space for him. I’d be seething if the Kings did.
Are the Kings cursed?
No, they just have a horrible owner.
I recently heard from a reliable source that the Kings are cursed.
How do we remove the curse?
Does anyone own a marble altar?
A live chicken?
Do you see Delon Wright being part of the roster next year? If so, can he be the backup point guard the Kings desperately need?
Now with the trade deadline over and the bench presumably bolstered, what is a reasonable expectation for this Kings roster to finish the season? It’s been a roller coaster this entire season.
Luke Walton is fired and you have to take over. With the new lineup, what adjustments do you make right now that forces us to tank, and what adjustments do you take to make a true push towards the playoffs?
I realize playoffs are essentially a pipe dream, but humor me.
I for one believe with a good coach, there’s enough talent on this team to compete for a playoff spot this year, and I’m not talking about the play in. Hell, on the offensive side of the ball, I’d almost squint my eyes and say Walton is actually doing a great job there. Defense is simply not professional grade.
I wouldn’t let Bagley play another game for this team if I was coach. First thing I’d do is make sure he’s gone in the offseason and wish him luck.
Prime example is Nate McMillan subbing in for lloyd pierce or billy d coaching the bulls.
It’s fine that you believe this team should be competing for a playoff spot. Going into the season not one prognosticator or one betting line had the Kings making the playoffs. The betting lines had the Kings winning 28 games and they are on pace to win 32. The defense has underperformed as you mentioned but overall this team has slightly over performed so far. As far as squinting your eyes on offense, the Kings are 11th in the league in assists per game and performing quite well on offense.
My 31-36 win prediction is still solidly in play.
Agreed.
We have a top 10 offense so his staff is doing something right. Fox/Haliburton/Holmes especially are playing out of their minds in this scheme. Speaking of Holmes, the Warriors commentators mentioned how he is our barometer guy. If he has a good game we as a team are usually having a good game. It was also funny to hear them freaking out whenever Fox had the ball lol.
Has a Sacramento Kings GM ever gone on to a bigger and better NBA front office position?
Petrie went on to retire wealthy as all-get-out, which is also my dream job, because it’s only possible when I’m asleep.
Hahahahahaha
It’s a serious question.
I mean if I’m Monte, I’m like…
If I can get these knuckleheads to the seven seed, my road is PAVED.
i doubt that’s his main motivation.
Right he probably cares more about the Sacramento Kings than his own career path.
My guess is he wanted a chance to run his own team. Now whether he’s actually getting that here with our owner(meddling)ship is anyone’s guess.
If he was winning meaningful games here, it’s possible he would enjoy that enough to stay, possible he would use it as leverage to gtfo to greener pastures. hard to say what he would enjoy more.
Scott Perry is the closest thing I can think of. Pete D’allesandro is now Assistant GM for the magic, it’s not bigger, but it might be better?
For all those saying that the Kings should have traded our top players for high draft pics, let me just remind everyone that high draft picks don’t guarantee success. For all the high draft picks the Kangz have had over the last 12 years, none (outside of Cousins) has been an all-star. Since Reke-Roy, we’ve whiffed on Jimmer (not in the league), Thomas Robinson (not in the league), Ben McLemore, Sauce Castillo (not in the league), Willie Trill, Georgios Papagiannis (not in the league), and Bagley III. Shipping out what little talent we have now to build through the draft is a recipe for disaster, especially when every single one of our GMs is Vivek’s puppet
If you’re not playing to win now, why play?
There’s something to be said about that. Good comment
Could not disagree more. The only way this team will improve is through the draft and trades.
So set up Fox and Hali to fail? Stunt their growths? For a shot at a bingo game, that more often than not ends in a bust player? It’s a slippery slope to me. I say let Fox and Hali go nuts and hopefully become the next Dame and CJ. Support them with pieces that fit as they go along and hope for the best.
Imagine if we had traded buddy before the season started, clearing the path for Ty to start. would that have been setting Ty up to fail and stunt his growth? I would say no, it would be giving your backcourt time to gel and learn to play together. Even the amazing ceiling that is dame and CJ, will never win a chip. They need a good to great third player, like one you would get in a loaded draft.
Yes, I believe surrounding Fox and Hali with 13 G Leaguers, taking away their veteran mentors, and asking them to go out and try to win games that the organization quietly wants them to lose would stunt their growth. Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t even want to go to work under those conditions.
The Kings improved via trade this week!
Buddy, HB, and Holmes are very good serviceable vets. Unless the Kings were offered equal or superior value in a trade, I see no reason to let them go just so the fans get a sugar rush from a trade.
Across the new acquisitions & the players we kept, what’s your order for the bench? (6-15)
I like what MM did. The Kings weren’t going to get A. a star or B. high draft picks with what they had to offer. Kings are many steps from being really good. I think they got better, not a lot but some. No more CoJo or Bjelly on the court. Thank you, Monte. Parker was obviously not part of anything going forward. I going to root for wins and further development of Fox and TH. Hopefully Mets or Guy can become solid rotational players for us. Buddy can return to catch and shoot, Barnes can keep turning in consistent, boring 16/8 games and Rashaun continues as he has been. If Harkless can be a defensive stopper and DW can be a solid #4 guard, then the kings have done well. Most importantly, MM didn’t make a bad move.
However any of us feel about the trade deadline and the moves made (and not made), Monte McNair should be holding a press conference. He owes the fans at least a discussion on what the franchise thinking is and where Holmes fits for the future (beyond the blah, blah that GMs usually say about assets…)
I don’t disagree that a press conference might be suggested PR, but if you think you are getting anything past regular GM talk then that seems unlikely, especially with this front office.
What’s the competitive advantage for him to do that really? Notifying the league exactly what his plans are and sacrificing potential leverage? Letting league know that Holmes has indicated he will sign using Early Bird rights, how he plans to clear cap space for him or how he doesn’t care to keep Holmes at all. Let the league know he turned down the Denver deal for Gordon, so everyone knows exactly what his price is?
It’s just not great business for him to do so.
Check out the latest on TKH:
Question: Is there any way to see the Terence Davis acquisition as anything less than rank hypocrisy from an organization that so often tries to portray itself as progressive on social issues? The man quite clearly hit a woman in the face, and got charged for it. The fact the charges were disappeared doesn’t mean he did not hit a woman in the face. He’s not exactly an All-Star, either. Why does this organization insist on continuing to acquire and employ known woman-abusers, haters, violence-perpetrators, and all-around assholes? Davis just the latest in a line that includes DMC, Matt Barnes, Rajon Rondo, Darren Collison, Ty Lawson… when does this stop? I lost some respect for Monte McNair at this trade deadline, not because he failed to acquire picks or trade away a big contract, but because he willingly brought aboard a publicly known abuser. How can Kings fans of conscience root for such a player, or the team that employs him? We shouldn’t be OK with this, and the Kings sycophants in the media should remember their conscience and call out the organization for putting wins (assuming a fringe player like Davis actually helps the team win) over human decency. Right?
Do you want to lynch him? Seriously, though, there are criminal courts, NBPA, and if he does something while a King, the team to punish that. After that do you pile on? Keep an eye on them, zero-tolerance, sure, but how can someone rehabilitate if never given a second chance, a chance to work their job (ever again)? And do you think a habitual abuser more likely stop while under the scrutiny of the NBA or out of the league?
Men hurting women is endemic. I see your point, but Davis had a job in Toronto. There was no really need to bring him, Kings are not saving him from social ostracism.
What always happens is that men hurt women and move on normally. Something has to change. First of all, the NBA should investigate and suspend for a season without payment. Let’s be clear, players make enough money to endure this period. If this guy does this again, he should be banned from the league.
About McNair, he has persued Davis only to add value for the team. It’s marely pragmatic and ignores an important issue. Davis has at least been subjected to a program that targets this kind of social problem?
Yes, there are criminal courts and the NBPA. They don’t appear to be doing much to stop him from hitting women in the face and continuing to play professional basketball. And to your point about habitual abusers being more likely to stop in the NBA vs. out of the league, it is not the Kings’ job to “rehabilitate” woman-beaters. It is the Kings’ job, as a collection of (hopefully) decent human beings, to not condone, excuse, or apologize for indecent human behavior for the sake of winning basketball games–especially when the organization has branded itself as a paragon of social virtue. There plenty of bench-level guards available that do not have a history of hitting women in the face. Trade for one of those guys instead.
Can you make a poll or something to get board consensus on if people wanted the team to load up and make a run at the playoffs/playins or offload talent and make a run at the tankathon percentages?
Is there a scenario here where Buddy is moved to a 6th man role?
I understand they have been playing well with the 3-guard lineup, but I still think Buddy would be strongest off the bench.
My question is: how hypocritical does the organization look after the Davis’ aquisition?
Juts to point the irony, Davis may debut in a game with broadcast of only female and non-binary professionals
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