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The Kings are reportedly interested in Ben Simmons, but it won’t be cheap

If the Kings are going to land Ben Simmons, they're going to have to pay a massive price.

The Athletic's Shams Charania sparked a string of Ben Simmons trade rumors following his Inside Pass column on Tuesday. According to Charania's sources, the 76ers are looking for an "All-Star-caliber player" if they're going to move on from Simmons, and as an asking price, that makes a lot of sense. Despite his obvious warts, Simmons is a three-time All-Star and the 76ers are NBA Finals contenders. They can't afford to take a step-back in the middle of Joel Embiid's prime. But just because the 76ers are asking for an All-Star-caliber player in return doesn't mean they are going to get one.

Independent (via Substack) veteran NBA reporter Marc Stein followed up Charania's Ben Simmons news with a list of teams that have expressed interest in acquiring the Australian guard/forward, and the Kings were on that list.

Our pal Jason Anderson from the Sacramento Bee did a little digging of his own and dropped a column on Wednesday morning detailing what the Kings would need to do to satisfy Philadelphia's demands:

Sacramento would probably be willing to offer a package that includes Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley III and one or more future first-round draft picks. One league source recently told The Sacramento Bee the Kings would have to send a minimum of three first-round picks to the 76ers in a trade constructed around Hield and Bagley. Another source said the 76ers wouldn’t be interested unless Fox or Haliburton were included in the trade, but Hield’s elite 3-point shooting and Bagley’s unrealized potential could be appealing if a better deal doesn’t materialize.

Anderson put to paper what we probably could have speculated: If the Kings aren't trading Fox or Haliburton, and they really shouldn't, the 76ers are going to need a ton of draft compensation to fill the talent gap.

There is still a long way to go before any Ben Simmons trade materializes, but it's encouraging to see the Kings in the mix, and as Anderson notes, the 76ers are aiming high early, as they should. Daryl Morey is doing his job in trying to maximize the return for a former franchise player, but if he doesn't get it, I'm sure he'll continue the dialogue with his former protégé and Sacramento Kings General Manager, Monte McNair.

It's also worth noting that while "three first-round picks" sounds like a high asking price, various pick protections, pick swaps, and other draft compensation tricks can be utilized to make the reality of losing those "three first-round picks" less damaging than it sounds.

If Anderson is right when he says that the Kings "would probably be willing to offer a package that includes Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley III and one or more future first-round draft picks" than the two sides might not be as far off as it appears. The problem is that draft compensation doesn't do much for the 76ers' title dreams, so a deal in this mold is likely contingent on Philadelphia lining up a second trade where they could use those draft picks to acquire more win-now talent.

If Anderson's second source is more accurate, and the Kings cannot land Ben Simmons without dealing De'Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton, that probably marks the end of Morey and McNair's trade negotiations.

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LandParkJimmer
July 14, 2021 9:48 am

3 first round picks is absolutely insane. Sounds like a Vlade move…

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 10:18 am
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

Have to give up something to change. We can run it back and keep the streak alive.

LandParkJimmer
July 14, 2021 10:43 am

Ya things have to change but most teams do this through the draft. If we give up 3 first round picks, we should riot.

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 10:51 am
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

Draft is not going to do it. Especially with the Kings draft history.

02kingsfan
July 14, 2021 11:38 am

Especially with this gunning for meaningless play in philosophy Vivek so desperately desired

TheGrantNapear
July 14, 2021 11:49 am
Reply to  02kingsfan

I’m guessing Vivek’s proclivity for the 8th seed / play in will lead us to trading the 9th pick.

richie88
July 14, 2021 11:52 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Depending on who’s available & what it’s traded for, that wouldn’t necessarily be bad.

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 12:31 pm
Reply to  02kingsfan

Desired is past tense. He is probably setting the same goal for the next decade.

richie88
July 14, 2021 1:10 pm

The Kings got Fox & Hali thru the draft.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:21 pm
Reply to  richie88

4 years apart and neither, as of yet, are tentpoles. You have to do significantly better than that if you’re going to focus on building entirely through the draft.

Last edited 21 days ago by BestHyperboleEver
richie88
July 14, 2021 1:28 pm

I wasn’t advocating building entirely thru the draft. I don’t think that’s doable for the Kings. I was just pointing out the Kings got some nice players thru the draft.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:36 pm
Reply to  richie88

The biggest challenge with building through the draft is that you have to hit on multiple picks to some degree (and on a couple to great degree) in relatively quick succession.

LaBradfordsCreditCard
July 16, 2021 8:59 pm

Like, for example, Luka Doncic in 2018.

SacTownYeti
July 14, 2021 7:12 pm
Reply to  richie88

Not Monte’s fault, but the Kings have a truly horrific draft record. Whether it be Marvin, JJ and Giles, Etc we’ve managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with some amazing regularity.

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 7:17 pm
Reply to  richie88

Two good players out of their last 200 hundred opportunities.

WINNING!!!!!

AmateurNerd
July 14, 2021 2:00 pm

TBF the history doesn’t matter bc those decision-makers are gone. The person making the picks is 1-0 so far. But I agree that draft picks are often overrated, especially in the Kangz’s typical 7-10 range.

Roaddog
July 14, 2021 5:41 pm

how is the pre-McNair draft history relevant?

LaBradfordsCreditCard
July 16, 2021 9:20 pm

Who is the ass hat who downvoted this? OK, go ahead and defend any Kings pick in the last decade not named Cousins, Fox or Haliburton … plus bonus points for explaining why it was a good idea to pass up Luka for Bagley. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

cloudyeyes
July 14, 2021 2:56 pm
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

Here’s the gamble: This year’s #9 + 2 mid first rounders.

I believe the Kings do make the playoffs with Simmons, so those other two aren’t going to be lottery picks.

Buddy + Bagley + #9 + 2 ~16-20 picks sounds pretty fair in my opinion.

9sac8
July 14, 2021 7:02 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

Buddy, Bags and our 2022 1st for Ben Simmons. Who says no???

SacTownYeti
July 14, 2021 7:13 pm
Reply to  9sac8

Philadelphia it appears.

9sac8
July 15, 2021 10:09 am
Reply to  SacTownYeti

Touche!

murraytant
July 15, 2021 5:16 pm
Reply to  9sac8

Philly says no. They want an all star- Buddy or MB3 is an all star????

BasketballHella
July 15, 2021 1:19 pm
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

Most teams yes… this team is a paradox wrapped in an enigma. Here is a Schrödinger’s cat scenario for you.

If we pick, based on history, we aren’t going to get true value of those picks. So are those picks even worth as much here as they are in philly?

I for one would much rather have the known value bruises and all. Rather than another spin of the lotto wheel of draft picks in sac.

andy_sims
July 14, 2021 9:48 am

If a deal includes Fox, barring something entirely one-sided in Sacramento’s favor, I pass. And I agree that three first-rounders is just too much for a guy who has completely soured on he aspect of the game that involves making baskets. He’s a great player, and even great players have flaws, but his is not one that can be hidden.

I’d be interested in something like Bagley/Hield and up to two first-rounders, but the fine print would need to be read.

Otis
July 14, 2021 10:28 am
Reply to  andy_sims

It would already be a bit one-sided, since Simmons is the better player. But if you could get Simmons plus a little something, I’m not sure what would stop McNair from pulling the trigger.

RikSmits
July 14, 2021 10:35 am
Reply to  Otis

Agreed. I would trade Fox for Ben straight up. Add filler to get one of Maxey/Thybulle/Milton.

Fox is the kind of PG the Sixers are craving.

I would give Tyrese the reigns of the team and give Ben the Bam/Draymond role.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
July 14, 2021 1:45 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Same. Make Hali your Curry, Buddy your Klay, Simmons your Green, and Barnes your Barnes. Swing for the fences with the #9 pick and hope for the best.

oshima9
July 14, 2021 2:32 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Agree 100%

9sac8
July 14, 2021 7:07 pm
Reply to  oshima9

Hell no. If anything we move Fox off the ball. Fox is giving these dudes hell this year. Coming off a 25 point season. I fully expect him to become an unstoppable 2 guard. And find a way to get Lonzo.

Hali
Fox
Barnes
Simmons
Holmes

itsjabby
July 15, 2021 11:58 am
Reply to  9sac8

Now this i can get down with! I want to wear my Fox jersey at a playoff game!

jwalker1395
July 14, 2021 6:34 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Make Hali your Curry, Buddy your Klay,

What kinda Walmart brand Avengers is this?

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
July 14, 2021 7:58 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

It’s about roles and team makeup not necessarily the comparison to future hall of famers.

itsjabby
July 15, 2021 11:59 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

The Vivengers!

keith_kar
July 15, 2021 12:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Agree almost 100%, but I’d like to make Barnes someone else’s team’s Barnes.

oshima9
July 14, 2021 2:31 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I would, too. It is the type of aggressive move that would radically transform the franchise, with a team built around Haliburton, Simmons and the #9 pick. A team that can be developed into one that meets the demands of today’s NBA.

LandParkJimmer
July 14, 2021 10:44 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Fox and Bagley for Simmons would not upset me one bit.

TheGrantNapear
July 14, 2021 11:49 am
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

I’m not a fan of Fox, but I wouldn’t include him in a Simmons trade. If you’re willing to trade Fox, I think you can do better than Simmons.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:08 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

For example?

satdawg
July 14, 2021 3:32 pm

Someone who can shoot

Otis
July 14, 2021 3:34 pm
Reply to  satdawg

Yes, clearly the weakness on this team is offense.

satdawg
July 14, 2021 8:56 pm
Reply to  Otis

I just wouldn’t trade fox or Halliburton for him

richie88
July 14, 2021 5:17 pm

I’d say that Siakam would be the most obvious example right now.

Kingsguru21
July 14, 2021 5:50 pm
Reply to  richie88

Can’t agree on this one.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 9:24 pm
Reply to  richie88

I like Siakam, but Simmons is a more impactful player overall.

King4life
July 14, 2021 9:48 am

I don’t think the Kings have enough assets to land Simmons without a third team being involved. What good are picks and Bagley to the Sixers?

I also wanted to give a shout out to Jason Anderson for the work he’s been putting in. He’s put out a lot more tidbits than any of the other beat-writers and has constantly been breaking the various players coming into workout for the draft.

aplumley
July 14, 2021 10:02 am

Simmons makes a lot of sense for the Kings. He’s a flawed, but still elite player.

richie88
July 14, 2021 11:31 am
Reply to  aplumley

He’s very good, but I wouldn’t call him elite due to his flaws.

Kosta
July 14, 2021 12:16 pm
Reply to  richie88

How about some term like “E-lite”?

(pronounced “eee-LIGHT”)

aplumley
July 14, 2021 12:21 pm
Reply to  richie88

If he’s in a situation where he’s asked to be a primary or secondary scorer, not elite. If he’s in the right situation, then he’s elite. He certainly has some elite skills that are not that hard to maximize.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:08 pm
Reply to  richie88

He would be the closest thing to an elite player the Kings have.

richie88
July 14, 2021 1:25 pm

That’s true right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Fox is better than him long-term (& I think there’s a chance that Hali could be better long-term).

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:35 pm
Reply to  richie88

Maybe. But Simmons is better now and is only 1 year older than Fox. I don’t think there is much reason to think Fox’s growth curve has more potential than Simmons’.

Last edited 21 days ago by BestHyperboleEver
Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
July 14, 2021 1:47 pm

Plus one, the thing that worries me about Fox long term is is speed and explosiveness. It is elite right now and gives him a excellent advantage off the dribble, but he is a John Wall/Derrick Rose injury away from being mediocre.

Otis
July 14, 2021 1:51 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

And there was a lot of talk this season about how he was worn down from carrying the load.

That style of charging into the defense all game long can’t be a long term strategy, no matter how good he is at it.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
July 14, 2021 1:58 pm
Reply to  Otis

Agreed, that type of play also wore down DWade until he got help from LBJ and Bosh. The only guy I can think of that still seems to excel with that kind of play is Westbrook, but he’s built like a brick shithouse.

I seriously worry about Fox being that type of player and having his career cut short because the Kings forced him into that type of alpha role.

richie88
July 14, 2021 4:38 pm
Reply to  Otis

I think that’s a legit concern.

richie88
July 14, 2021 4:37 pm

I think it’s more likely Fox will improve his defense & shooting than Simmons will improve his shooting.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 9:25 pm
Reply to  richie88

Maybe, but that’s highly speculative and Simmons currently has the lead.

SacTownYeti
July 14, 2021 7:16 pm
Reply to  richie88

He’s an elite defender. Elite rebounder (from his position). Elite passer. Very good scorer in the regular season. Awful shooter.

He may not be elite, but you can see elite from where he is.

KangzAteMyFamily
July 14, 2021 10:03 am

I think the only way the Kings are involved in a Simmons trade is as a third team. Buddy and Bagley don’t help them win now by that much. McCollum is a better player than Buddy and the Trail Blazers should have already asked about a Simmons for CJ trade. The Kings could get in there as a team who acquires picks and sheds one of those aforementioned guys anyway.

jwalker1395
July 14, 2021 12:08 pm

I agree we’re probably not the top offer. But if for some reason the price comes down that a couple of defensive liabilities and picks get us a 24 year old All-Star to pair next Fox and Hali I am all for it. I’d go so far as to trade Hali in a package for Simmons, but not Fox (unless they threw in extras on top)

NorCalKingsFan
July 14, 2021 6:45 pm

If we aren’t getting Simmons, we shouldn’t be part of the trade.

SierraSpartan
July 14, 2021 10:24 am

various pick protections, pick swaps, and other draft compensation tricks can be utilized to make the reality of losing those “three first-round picks” less damaging than it sounds.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I never want to see the words “pick swaps” in the discussion of any deal involving Philadelphia ever again.

richie88
July 14, 2021 11:25 am
Reply to  SierraSpartan

Since the Kings got Fox in that draft & Philly got Fultz, the pick swap didn’t hurt the Kings too badly.

Last edited 21 days ago by richie88
Otis
July 14, 2021 10:27 am

De’Aaron Fox would probably fit that description, but sources have maintained the Kings are highly unlikely to trade their dynamic 23-year-old point guard.

Pretty interesting – “highly unlikely” is a bit of a move from “untouchable”.

RikSmits
July 14, 2021 10:36 am
Reply to  Otis

Nobody is untouchable!

1951
July 14, 2021 10:49 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Nobody!
comment image

Gregoryl
July 14, 2021 10:57 am
Reply to  1951

Thank god he was touchable…wait, that didn’t sound right…

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 11:08 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

Too bad he was able to stick around so long.

Carl
July 14, 2021 11:42 am

Which one?

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 12:33 pm
Reply to  Carl

Both…but Karl did not spend a career ruining this team. Boogey for the win.

Wilson
July 14, 2021 12:45 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

he was touchable…
Buddy agrees.

Kosta
July 14, 2021 1:11 pm
Reply to  Wilson

“Technical, Cousins!”
comment image

LandParkJimmer
July 14, 2021 10:45 am
Reply to  Otis

Fox is overrated.

9sac8
July 14, 2021 7:12 pm
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

You need several seats sir.

1951
July 14, 2021 10:46 am

(a) I would happily acquire Ben Simmons.

(b) the price matters, a lot.

Gregoryl
July 14, 2021 10:49 am

While Simmons would be a nice get for Buddy/Bagley/2 firsts, this team does not improve until they get a pitbull who doesn’t allow them to lose 9 games in a row (twice), doesn’t allow them to stand around after their teammate gets punked, doesn’t allow them to be content padding their stats, etc..

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 10:53 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

What you are saying is correct and requires trading or releasing everyone except for Haliburton and Holmes. Holmes is likely leaving so you need to find another center too.

Gregoryl
July 14, 2021 10:56 am

I think 1 guy can come in and change the culture, it wouldn’t have to involve releasing the soft guys. A Chris Paul/Marcus Smart type wouldn’t allow the soft guys to continue being soft.

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 11:08 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

That one guy is not going to change the entire culture in my opinion. The leadership coddles the soft guys. The soft guys are unfortunately untouchable.

My opinion….

Gregoryl
July 14, 2021 11:33 am

You’re right, it would take a FO culture shift as well.

rockbottom
July 14, 2021 5:16 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

I think getting Crowder as well as Paul changed the soft culture ! Kings likely need two as well !

02kingsfan
July 14, 2021 4:11 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Won’t happen until Walton is canned

keith_kar
July 15, 2021 12:57 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

It’s definitely those long losing streaks that are killing the Kings. Year after year.

Kosta
July 14, 2021 10:55 am

but it won’t be cheap

Howzabout a little…..CASH CONSIDERATIONS, Philly?

Eh? Eh?
comment image

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
July 14, 2021 11:32 am
Reply to  Kosta

I can haz money?

Bbmuteman
July 14, 2021 11:05 am

I had it all planned out in my head, and a trade of hield, bagley, this year’s pick and an unprotected future first and a sign and trade of Holmes for Simmons and Danny green works out. Sixers really really need a good backup for embiid, and Holmes is perfect.

Trade Barnes to the celts for smart and Tristan Thompson so they can get out of his bad contract, and we have a new center. Trade fox to Toronto straight up for siakam, and we now have a new starting five. They get Lowry’s successor in fox, and they can pickup kuminga to be siakam of the future but cheap.

WizsSox
July 14, 2021 11:43 am
Reply to  Bbmuteman

So in my head, this proposed line up looks like

Hali, Smart, Siakam, Simmons and Thompson as your starting/crunchtime 5.

Congratulations,,,that’s the worst shooting team in the league. Grit and Grind here we come!!!

Gregoryl
July 14, 2021 11:50 am
Reply to  WizsSox

I would much prefer grit and grind to the current high-scoring/zero defense team.

WizsSox
July 14, 2021 11:55 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

Grit and Grind has it’s limits if you can only score 80 points a game. Which that team would frequently in today’s league. If it was 1984, that might be decent squad.

Last edited 21 days ago by WizsSox
RikSmits
July 14, 2021 12:02 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

I think that a team could potentially be ahead of the curve by starting to build a grit and grind game. After zigging towards protecting offensive players with their rules, the NBA may zag back again because the foul-hunting is becoming too annoying and hurting the product.

It was fun seeing Team USA players waiting for touch fouls and FIBA refs saying “Nah. just keep playing”.

WizsSox
July 14, 2021 12:13 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

That doesn’t account for the terrible spacing that team would have with only one 3 pt threat. That team would actually need to get to the line a ton. And one of the guys that theoretically could shoots 60% from the line.

I don’t mind some grit and grind…would be good for Kings to have some guys like that. Just not all of them.

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 12:36 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Do the Kangz even understand the concept of spacing right now?

WizsSox
July 14, 2021 12:46 pm

Considering the team was in the top half of the league in scoring last year, hard to argue that they are clueless on this particular topic.

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 7:42 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

When Fox, Holmes, and Halliburton are in the line up yes. Bagley in the mix is laughable in regards to spacing. He does not even really know where he is on the floor so he just sticks with offense. Occasionally he copies Hield and hovers around the three point hoping he can catch and shoot to avoid any contact and having to dribble. Hield is fine with spacing as long as he does not have to move with the ball or go towards the basket.

Glad they made it to the top half in scoring to avoid any hope of a decent draft pick.

WizsSox
July 14, 2021 7:59 pm

So you note that you are fine with the spacing of 4 of 5 players named, not including Barnes, who not sure how you wouldn’t include him. So 5/6’s of the players who played the most minutes you think have good spacing. But you still think they have poor spacing…Seems like an easy problem to fix.

Your last sentence makes zero sense in relation to this discussion. It would be better if all their players weren’t good at anything?
comment image

AnybodyButBagley
July 14, 2021 9:21 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Are you contending that the Kings are a well coached team that can properly execute an offensive game plan?

I am saying that Holmes, Fox, and Haliburton understand spacing in general terms. Hield’s idea of spacing is running to the three point line and stopping. That is three not four. Barnes is too smart to be on this team.

The spacing goes to crap every other play because half of the roster does not know what to do. Find anyone associated with the NBA that will declare the Kings an intelligent team that utilizes spacing well. Remember watching isolation basketball with the wrong guy dribbling the ball because they are so great?

Good ball movement and spacing is not what the Kings are known for, they suck at it actually.

WizsSox
July 15, 2021 11:41 am

I think almost anyone including yourself would contend spacing is very important in current NBA offense…The Kings had a top half ranked offense in the league. Ipso facto, they must be spacing at least at a decent level. There’s 72 games of data that indicate they are at least average to slightly above offensively. What is your support that they are so terrible, other than your personal eye test?

I never contended the Kings were known for spacing, just that they weren’t clueless as you indicated. Saying they suck at it, is apparently fun to say for you it’s just not born out by any data. But it seems that’s not really what you are going after, so have at it.

Last edited 20 days ago by WizsSox
AnybodyButBagley
July 15, 2021 9:57 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

The top half of the league in scoring…wow. Great accomplishment. Still cannot reach the play in tournament which is the top half of the league that matters.

They suck at spacing it is a fact. They do not have a consistent offense. Find anyone associated with the NBA that thinks the Kings spacing is any good. That person does not exist. It is not fun to say that the Kings suck at spacing. It is a frustrating fact as a Kings fan who enjoys watching decent basketball.

You keep hoping that they bring it all back for the next decade and that they will win with current strategy and abilities.

AmateurNerd
July 14, 2021 8:35 pm

You’d think a worldwide emphasis on social distancing for the past 16 months would have helped them get the hint, but noooo

Kosta
July 14, 2021 12:21 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I wish the pickup games I’ve played in had FIBA refs, to counteract the dudes who call a foul anytime they miss a bucket.

Bbmuteman
July 14, 2021 12:45 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Yeah, that was very apparent against the Aussies.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:10 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

The NBA has zero motivation to do that.

Kosta
July 14, 2021 1:27 pm

Oh yeah, NBA?

How about…..meow?
comment image

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:10 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

If only there were more options!

Bbmuteman
July 14, 2021 12:36 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Yes, it is a bad shooting team, but they can all defend. I liked those grit and grind grizzly teams. Is it bad that I could see that team as like a spurs’esque team from their heyday?

WizsSox
July 14, 2021 1:13 pm
Reply to  Bbmuteman

Fine to like grit and grind style…it’s just means something different from even 7-8 years ago and if that can be effective still. Philly, Miami, New York all had top 8 defenses this year, but middle of the pack offenses or worse. They all struggled come playoff time to get buckets.

I think the idea of holding teams down to below 100 pts is pretty difficult consistently, even with a great defense in today’s game. Just have to defend too much space. You have to be able to put the ball in the bucket and spacing is a huge component of that in today’s game. All 4 conference finalists had a top 8 offensive rating this year.

And depending on which Spurs era you are talking about, I don’t see it. The early 2010s teams shot a decent number of 3’s and led the league in percentage a couple years. And the early 2000s teams had a dude named Tim Duncan.

I see those things missing from being a fair comparison to the line up in question.

Last edited 21 days ago by WizsSox
TheGrantNapear
July 14, 2021 11:51 am
Reply to  Bbmuteman

You had me until Fox for Siakam, that’s a laughable trade.

jwalker1395
July 14, 2021 12:12 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

The eagerness some around here have to trade Fox is truly bizarre to me. We literally overvalue every single role player whose ever shown a little hustle from Shumpert to Giles to Davis to whoever, but the one guy that’s legitimately a franchise player can’t get moved fast enough for some. Keep the streak, baby!!!

Otis
July 14, 2021 12:14 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Are people eager to trade Fox, or only eager if a better player is coming back?

jwalker1395
July 14, 2021 12:21 pm
Reply to  Otis

The better player argument is so wildly subjective when you’re comparing apples to oranges like this. There is no one-to-one way to compare the value of Simmons and Fox. I know you’re gonna throw the 3x All-Star thing at me, but Fox would be too if he played in the East rather than being buried on a small market team and competing with the Stephs, Lillards and CP3s of the world. Simmons is a better defender and rebounder, but Fox is the go-to guy on offense. I would say in terms of win share on this team, this trade would be a wash. And given the fact that Fox is highly-valued and fits well into the team, whereas Simmons is clearly odd-man out on his team/franchise and is selling at a low, I think a straight Fox for Simmons trade would be a relative steal for Morey imho.

Otis
July 14, 2021 1:03 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Small market players make the All-Star team in the West all the time. Their teams even make the playoffs occasionally (actually, almost every season).

Being in a small market, in and of itself, isn’t a backbreaker for Fox. The lack of team success is – he’s just not the type of player (yet) that can carry a team in the w/l column.

This team would be far more balanced on the floor with Simmons, and that would translate into wins IMO.

Last edited 21 days ago by Otis
richie88
July 14, 2021 1:07 pm
Reply to  Otis

Simmons would probably help the Kings more right now, but I think Fox a has higher ceiling. I think it’ll be easier for Fox to improve his defense & shooting than it’ll be for Simmons to improve his shooting.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 1:16 pm
Reply to  richie88

I disagree. Fox is might be more likely to reach his ceiling, but his ceiling is lower. IF Fox becomes a decent defender and average shooter, he’s can become a top 20-ish player. IF Simmons becomes even a below average, but willing shooter he’s a fringe MVP candidate.

oshima9
July 14, 2021 2:36 pm

A good assessment, which argues for trading Fox to get Simmons.

ForKingsandCountry
July 14, 2021 3:56 pm

I think Simmons has a higher ceiling theoretically but he looked mentally cooked at the end of the playoffs. If he can’t dunk the ball when he’s wide open then I have zero hope of him developing any kind of a jump shot. Is it possible? Sure I guess. But I think Fox becoming an average three point shooter on decent volume is much more likely to happen.

Otis
July 14, 2021 4:03 pm

Fox has to improve defensively as well. It’s not just about three point shooting. Simmons has been on the All-NBA defensive first team TWICE in his four seasons in the league.

He did have a rough go in the playoffs this season. But for his career, his playoff numbers are pretty similar to his regular season numbers.

I’d be fine sweating his free throw shooting in the second or third round of the playoffs.

ForKingsandCountry
July 15, 2021 8:02 am
Reply to  Otis

No argument about Fox’s defense. It needs to get a lot better. I just get really worried when guys get the yips in any sport. If he were merely a bad shooter like Giannis I would t be worried. It’s the total unwillingness to even look to score that’s worrisome. I hope for Simmons sake he’s spending his off season with a sports psychologist because that’s what I think it’ll take to get past whatever he’s dealing with IMO.

richie88
July 14, 2021 4:45 pm

I agree w/this, but I’d add that Fox also has to improve his defense.

BasketballHella
July 15, 2021 3:37 pm

Also Simmons plays for team in a market that isn’t softer than 10 ply charmin. I think he was in his head because philly is ruthless in the media and the fan base. If he came here I think it would be a good rest.

Zero stress from the media and ownership won’t push too hard ever for fear of making the talent angry.

That being said he’s not coming here.

BestHyperboleEver
July 15, 2021 10:10 pm

The interesting thing is that even in that game where his flaws were on full display, he still put up 8 rebounds & 13 assists, played strong defense and was the only 76er to play over 20 minutes and have a positive +/-.

Otis
July 14, 2021 1:41 pm
Reply to  richie88

I think Fox’s ceiling is lower, he’s got plenty of ifs still as well.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 2:05 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Of course, that’s all situational. Fox is highly-valued by his team and fits into it well because he’s on a shitty team where he’s clearly the player the team is built for. If Fox were on a team with Embiid and Harris, he clearly would not be the go-to guy on offense and could very easily be seen as the odd-man out.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
July 14, 2021 2:08 pm

Or the perfect third fiddle on a championship team.

BestHyperboleEver
July 14, 2021 2:12 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It’s possible. Or not, and they decide they need more shooting and perimeter defense, so they “sell low” on him. Either way, the point is comparing Simmons and Fox based on their team context is comparing apples to orangutans.

jwalker1395
July 14, 2021 7:41 pm

Sure, but that context shapes the market for him. Perceived value drives supply and demand.

And in this market, Fox > Simmons imo. If you’re gonna trade him, at least get proper value is all I’m saying.

Last edited 21 days ago by Jacob Walker
BestHyperboleEver