Just when we thought the Bogdan Bogdanovic saga was finally over, The Athletic’s Sam Amick dropped several more details about it in a column Friday morning. Amick gave us some new information, but all I have after reading it is more questions.
We have a pretty good idea of how the Milwaukee Bucks trade fell apart at this point, but Amick added that Bogdanovic’s close relationship with former Kings guard George Hill also had an impact. Hill, along with Giannis, was responsible for recruiting Bogi, but once Hill was included in the Jrue Holiday trade, that connection vanished. It’s hard to determine the primary reason why the Bucks trade fell apart, and how it was leaked, but there are so many small questionable details about it that we do know that it’s easy to see why it never happened.
The real bomb Amick dropped in this story, though, is the revelation that Atlanta actually offered the Kings a heavily protected first round for Bogdanovic before he signed the offer sheet with the Hawks in restricted free agency.
One final note on this front: During those two days where the Kings pondered the decision of whether to match Bogdanovic’s deal, the Hawks were concerned they might not land him, in large part, because of what had taken place before the offer sheet had been signed. Sources say Atlanta offered Sacramento its 2022 first-round pick (via Oklahoma City) in a previous sign-and-trade scenario and was rebuffed. And while that pick wasn’t an asset to write home about it’s protected top 14 in 2022 and becomes two second-rounders (2024 and 2025) if it’s not conveyed it was better than nothing.
There’s no clarity on why Sacramento would hold onto him at one point only to let him go at the later juncture. But the Hawks who had a tremendous offseason by adding Danilo Gallinari, Rajon Rondo, Kris Dunn and Bogdanovic, among others were more than happy to benefit from the change of heart.
I have so many questions.
Amick doesn’t get too specific about the timeline here, but one has to assume that the Hawks offer came in during the Bucks trade negotiations, and Monte McNair just preferred Donte DiVincenzo over the pick, right? And after the Bucks deal fell apart, Atlanta knew there wouldn’t be a lot of competition for Bogi, and decided to roll the dice with an offer sheet instead of offering up the pick again, right? The Kings didn’t just pass on a protected first round pick and let Bogdanovic walk away for nothing, right? Common sense, etc.
Due to the protections on the pick Atlanta was offering (OKC’s top 14 protected 2022 first round pick that becomes two second-rounders if it’s not conveyed) this isn’t a massive asset loss for the Kings. Oklahoma City is overtly tanking this season. They will finish with a top-14 pick, so we’re talking about two second rounders here, but still, they would have been nice to have.
Despite the fact that there is still a lot we don’t know, I feel safe in saying the Kings took an unfortunate loss here. It wasn’t entirely their fault, either – it sure sounds like the Bucks deserve some blame for how that trade leaked out and fell apart, but at the end of the day the Kings had an asset at least two teams where trying to acquire in trade negotiations, and ended up losing that player for nothing.
Cue the “better trade two days ago” jokes.
UPDATE: 1:00 PM PT
Sam Amick provided a little more context to the report here. I still have plenty of questions regarding the timeline of events, but there’s a little more of the Bogdanovic story to chew on.
This is hard to believe…I want to hear it directly from McNair himself.
Why would McNair reveal anything about it?
Because Sam Amick just wrote an article titled
Kings GM Monty McNair is an idiot
Right, but you’re assuming what he would say about it would be the whole truth? There aren’t a lot of people that would say, “yep, I could have had a pick but instead decided for nothing.”
Without knowing the timeline, it’s hard to really come to any solid conclusion here. This is probably nothing but a blip for an organization like Toronto or Miami, but given the shitshow that has been the Kings under Ranadive’s ownership, it is almost impossible not to be concerned.
Not matching on Bogdanovic and/or not having the pick mentioned in the article does not make or break the Kings. The concern is whether this is simply an unfortunate circumstance or what will become a pattern under the new front office, a redux of past Ranadive front office shitnanigans.
I’m not upset by Bogdanovic going (I would have matched), and not getting anything in return could have been a function of agent tomfuckery and double dealing. That said, it does nibble away at at least some of the goodwill that the new front office had with the overall fan base.
All this does is reaffirm that the Kings should have slammed Atlanta’s you know what in the door and matched the offer.
It would appear that both offers were being made at the same time (like Tony mentioned) and McNair chose the Bucks deal. That deal then blew apart and the Hawks knew they did not have to offer anything in return, they could simply sign Bogi outright. This does not make me change my mind about the front office. It actually increases my confidence in McNair, as he had chosen the better deal in the first place.
(assuming that is the order of events that took place)
I want you to be right but that’s not what Sam Ammick just wrote. He specifically references those two days we had to match.
During those two days where the Kings pondered the decision of whether to match Bogdanovic’s deal, the Hawks were concerned they might not land him, in large part, because of what had taken place before the offer sheet had been signed.
This is technically impossible though. I see how you’re taking that away from how Amick wrote it, but after the offer sheet is signed and the two days to match commence, you can’t negotiate a sign and trade. The contract is signed. The only thing the Kings could have done at that point was match or not match, so the negotiations *had* to take place before that.
The only question is did the Kings have the opportunity to make this trade after the Bucks deal fell apart? That’s where the Kings look bad on this.
Ok this answers my question
I would think that too.
however Amick wrote that the Hawks offered the 2 future 2nds because they were concerned the Kings were going to match.
it’s written as though the hawks offered it.
that’s how I’m interpreting it anyways.
the offer sheet could very well have been signed. Then an additional offer to make sure the kings didn’t match was presented as the deadline to match was approaching? Is that possible? Is that legal? What’s stopping the hawks from offering two 2nd round picks to help seal the deal?
You’re misinterpreting the 2 2nd’s AT. That’s what the Kings would get if they didn’t get the 1st rounder. That’s standard practice in those kinds of deals. The NBA requires the other team gets SOMETHING in trade hence the 2 2nd rounders.
i actually got that part. I was just fast forwarding to what the deal actually would be, 2 second round picks.
That’s not at all what Amick wrote.
Once the offer is signed (this is the part that actually screwed the Kings a bit), it’s either match or let him walk.
the hawks were concerned
Sources say Atlanta offered Sacramento its 2022 first-round pick (via Oklahoma City) in a previous sign-and-trade scenario and was rebuffed. And while that pick wasn’t an asset to write home about it’s protected top 14 in 2022 and becomes two second-rounders (2024 and 2025) if it’s not conveyed it was better than nothing.
Amick
There’s plenty more to that sentence that, in my mind, clarifies the situation.
Maybe that’s it, that it was already signed.
but why would Atlanta offer something if it was already signed?
all of this makes no sense. I see a lot of attempts being made to rationalize it. You have to dismiss much of this reporting to do so. I’m having a hard time Otis.
And unless I’m misunderstanding your argument, this is how I read Sam’s info:
1) Atlanta speaks to McNair, offers a sign-and-trade scenario for Bogi, the Kings getting back a protected 2022 first rounder.
2) McNair declines this offer.
3) Atlanta decides to go the route of just offering Bogi a contract, which he signs and puts Sacramento on the clock.
4) During that 48 hour period the Kings have to match, Atlanta is concerned the Kings will indeed match, since they didn’t previously have an interest in the protected first rounder.
Everyone in the comments:
via GIPHY
GIF HELP PLZZZZZZZ. Longtime lurker–want in the GIF game.
From Giphy, you can just copy the “Direct Link” and paste it directly into your comment. So posting this (without the exclamation points):
“https://media.giphy.com/media/l0IylOPCNkiqOgMyA/giphy.gif”
Gets you this:
Thanks Otis!
Exactly. So wouldn’t this be a (minor) waste of assets on the Kings part? Much more so if OKC somehow squeaks into the playoffs in 2022.
Placing the Atlanta thing in a vacuum without factoring in the Milwaukee thing is kind of a fingers-in-the-ears approach.
Certainly important, and has nothing to do with my post. But thanks!
Hmm..Im not sure how S&Ts work, but can you offer a pick after a deal has been signed?
The piece you leave out here is that McNair may have some fault for the Bucks deal blowing up, or for not seeing that it was pretty tenuous. Many people here, including Adamsite, had questions on Bogi’s salary in this scenario and the feasibility of this thing getting done.
Now, I still don’t think we know exactly why that deal blew up, but should McNair have been able to see that it was pretty rickety from the start?
That’s all part of the GM game, I’m thinking.
I don’t really understand what was tenuous about the deal from McNair’s perspective. He made an in-principle deal with the Bucks, and although no one has reported it, with the approval of Bogdan. The fact that he had held conversations with Hill and Giannis about possibly joining them indicates that the Kings were aware of it, and tried to do right by Bobo, while securing adequate compensation. I have zero doubt that both player and agent verbally agreed to the proposition. There was nothing to indicate that the deal wouldn’t come to pass, other than Bobo’s agent is a snake, with history of reneging on deals. Still, until it can be put on paper, you take a person at their word.
If Milwaukee hadn’t shit the bed by leaking the trade, it’s possible that the two teams could have resurrected the deal while Atlanta’s weak offer was still on the table.
If you consider any verbal agreement as tenuous, I get that. I like things on paper and notarized when large things are at stake. Obviously, that wasn’t an option ahead of the moratorium. This is a relationship business, and when people go back on their word, that gets around, and could put any future dealings on the wrong foot from the first steps.
No one gets asked to choose between something and nothing, and chooses nothing. The very idea is nonsensical.
That first paragraph includes a lot of details nobody is privy to, outside the parties involved.
Which further highlights the incompleteness of Amick’s reporting.
I want a bare knuckles boxing match between you two. Just saying.
But I think we’d all miss Otis if that happened.
No doubt! Always bet on the crazier person.
FACTS
I think betting against Dayton is always the ways to go.
Unless I’m misinterpreting this (I do that frequently), while the Bucks deal was still in play, Atlanta offered a S&T that included the pick. McNair rightly concluded that the Milwaukee deal was a better one for Sacramento (and it was), and so didn’t accept the Atlanta offer.
Once the trade was blown up, Atlanta lost any incentive to include a draft pick, because no one else was angling for Bobo, so they did a straight offer sheet. There was no reason for the Hawks to do a S&T, because they could obtain Bobo without needing to.
It doesn’t seem to me like the two things have anything to do with one another, other than both trade deals were in play at the same time. This reads as though Atlanta gave us the option of trading Bobo to them for a pick and other assets, and McNair consciously chose to instead let him go for nothing. That doesn’t seem the least bit credible.
This report paints our new GM as a complete idiot.
Your logic is a hopeful take painting our GM as NOT a complete idiot.
i want your logic to be right. I really really really want that.
This might be a bit of an overreaction. Is this situation a bit worrisome? Sure. Will McNair be a succesful GM? Who knows. Is the guy who got a computer science degree from Princeton, before becoming Daryl Morey’s righthand man, a complete idiot? Probably not.
I’m not calling McNair an idiot.
Sam Ammick just reported that our GM is an idiot.
Isn’t in Amick?
My bad Mmurf
The Amick post didn’t exactly say McNair is an idiot. The way you are reading it says he is an idiot. For the Princeton reason alone I don’t see it that way, but without being able to get more clarity I couldn’t say 99% anything. I suppose inference is what we all have to go on here anyway.
How? How is he calling him an idiot? So Is he an idiot for letting Bogi walk for nothing even though bucks offered DD?
I don’t think you have to be Princeton grad to know that something might be better than nothing. And if that something was on the table, I highly doubt ANYONE, even Vlade would be like Naaa bro, keep your pick, I’ll give it you for free. That’s why I think they took two full days to not match. They were probably trying to make hawks sweat into offering that same deal again and probably eat the trade kicker they offered. S&T don’t give the home team much leverage to begin with.
I will say this tho, Amick is too good of a writer to not realize, the way he wrote that will end up being misinterpreted. And honestly, this is kinda click baitish. That’s twice now with him. That doesn’t make him less plugged or inaccurate or a bad person. It just means that he’s in the business of getting clicks and sometimes you need to bump up those clicks.
Complete idiot? Please stop overreacting to everything.
He was a computer science major at Princeton. I think it’s pretty safe to say he’s not a complete idiot (if he is, the vast majority of us most certainly are as well then).
too late, the RORdog beat me to it
I’m not overreacting.
the article paints him as a complete idiot.
I didn’t write it.
Lol.
thumbs down for this?
That’s fine, but serial attempted murderers disagree.
No wonder Robin Lopez doesn’t want to come here.
Anyone who downvotes Bob Ross needs the devil beaten out of them.
Everyone loves Bob Ross… but can he play small forward?
Who gives a damn? It’s Bob Ross.
Touché
I don’t think that you do…
Vlade.
The part I don’t get is that it’s not like McNair actually had the power to choose which team to do a trade with. He could threaten to match any off, but that’s not the same as saying I’m going to pick one of two offers.
one small caveat to this: the only way the Bucks deal would work is if the Kings agreed to a S&T. If Milwaukee was Bogi’s original 1a, and Atlanta was his 1b, then McNair would’ve had more leverage than I originally thought. The Hawks were essentially bribing McNair to not engage with the Bucks.
You were here during all of that. Certain parties insisted that McNair could have forced a trade on any team in the league and received better than fair value, simply through sheer force of will, or something.
That’s the only timeline that makes sense. The only thing that bothers me is that it seems the Bucks deal was only ‘in play’ before free agency opened. So, if the Atlanta offer was simultaneous, that means there were two instances of tampering instead of one?
That’s entirely possible, although we all know that ideas are being exchanged before anyone is officially allowed to do so.
I tend to agree with the way you are interpreting it..heck Monte should have countered Atlanta with a give us you 2021 1st round pick, assuming they have one..if not we will match an offer sheet. I think we knew what Atlanta’s cap space was then Atlanta would have to call our bluff or acquiesce to a trade
You are assuming that he didn’t
This is all becoming so confusing.
There is obviously some information missing because you do not deny a sign and trade for an asset (even if it is minor) over someone walking.
Once the offer sheet was signed (during the two days referenced) the ATL trade had already become IMPOSSIBLE (once the sheet is signed its match or bail, there’s no more S&T).
So it literally MUST have been before the offer sheet was signed, which is much less damning than OMG our GM turned down a first round pick for nothing, he’s a moron.
I’d have picked DD too over likely 2 2nds. We just got screwed by the Bucks timing of the Jrue trade.
This makes the most sense of anything I have heard so far.
is it just me or is this very questionable reporting by Ammick?
why wouldn’t you get a comment from the kings or back up your source before reporting this the way he did.
It paints Monty in a really bad light. We can argue about trades and value of players and who got the better end of the deal. We can’t argue about nothing being better than 2 second round picks. Ammick just reported that that’s what Monty thinks.
somethings not right here. Who do I believe? What is real?
Literally this.
I’ve grown to really hate Twitter in the last year. RealGM’s tweet of this, for example, does not take any of Amick’s vague piece on this event into proper context.
Twitter is literally ruining society by letting false narratives run wild with retweets as truths.
Key word is “previous scenario”. I really hope Amick provides more clarity on this before our boards get real toxic again lol.
Yep. There is no reason to rush for judgment, other than our own insatiable need to declare “first!” As a society we have seemingly yet to learn to completely vet information before moving on to formulating conclusions.
Every day we see stuff like this across the Twittersphere, and every day it re-affirms my decision (for me) to never join Twitter (or Facebook, for that matter).
I think that Amick is very credible. His current reporting on this lacks the context of time and timing, and I think that is a crucial component in determining what took place here. Absent of that, it’s just a bunch of conjecture. Certainly worth discussing, but empty calories at this point.
I would say we see it pretty much on any electronic or news media.. you have to read and watch several articles and stations and then figure where the truth lies..
i do agree that Twitter seems to be the worse.. every time I start to look at Twitter I realize it is a cesspool of super stupid wannabe hot takes..
Yes, this! I don’t think we could find a solution to this fast enough. Text often gets misinterpreted and people love being right. So there is no incentive to fact checking. Just retweet away on things that fit one’s narrative. I’ve done that, we’ve all done that while trying to make a point. But social media adds a whole new layer. Since now we have two people, who probably never would’ve met each other in real life, spending hours debating something they both might be wrong about. Of course when that debate is sports, it’s probably great and healthy but it spills into other aspects of life where it’s not healthy. Like for example, my dad, 67 year old man refuses to drink water 30 minutes before and after his meals. Because some doctors post went viral in his friend circle on his WhatsApp. I’ve tried a million times but he will not believe me over that post.it’s getting out of hand and I think it’s accelerating the divide in this country to levels that will soon become hard to come back from.
Whoever leaked the Bucks deal is getting a lump of coal for Christmas.
“What did you get for Bogdan?”
Mitch Richmond is coming back?!?
I’m going with something lighter in shade, and softer.
This is either poorly worded by Amick, or it’s an intentional and deliberate attempt on his part to slam the new Kings GM. (Angry at the lack of leaks in the new regime?)
He references the “two days” at the beginning, making it seem like McNair intentionally walked away from compensation for Bogi, and chose getting nothing instead, but buried in that report is this line (emphasis mine):
Sources say Atlanta offered Sacramento its 2022 first-round pick (via Oklahoma City) in a previous sign-and-trade scenario and was rebuffed.
So this CLEARLY happened before the offer sheet was signed – likely, as others have speculated, during the same or similar window of time that the Milwaukee S&T was happening.
Yet later in the report, he again tries to alter the timeline with some pretty creative (i.e., manipulative) wording:
There’s no clarity on why Sacramento would hold onto him at one point only to let him go at the later juncture.
Y’all seem to know Amick pretty well. Which do you think it is?
I don’t think there’s any reason to believe Amick would make “an intentional and deliberate attempt … to slam the new Kings GM.”
But shooting the messenger is much more comfortable than considering the new GM may have messed up a bit.
As mentioned, I’ll gladly defer to those who know Amick’s writing and reporting better, but what I’ve seen from him over the years is consistently clear and concise.
The above report is anything but that.
The actual, factual timeline is in there, but it’s sandwiched around a completely different narrative.
Again, it’s either incredibly sloppy writing, or it’s an agenda. As much as I loathe working in absolutes, it’s hard for me to see any conclusions beyond those two. As to which one it is, that’s for everyone to determine on their own, I suppose.
So is the conclusion that after the Bucks deal fell apart, the ATL came to the table with a S&T and Kings said no, then ATL came the next day to sign Bogi straight up? I’m sorry, but I believe we should chalk this up to the internet doing its thing to a vaguely written overview.
I’d chalk it to both the internet doing its thing and fans doing their thing. To me, it’s an interesting bit of information that I’d like to know more about but likely never will.
Was this info leaked by Vivek to Amick as a response to the meddling thing?
Why, after making the huge decision to fire VD and bring in a new GM, then leak to a reporter that his guy had done something galactically stupid? Particularly when what Amick is implying comes off as pure bullplop?
“The Kings didn’t just pass on a protected first round pick and let Bogdanovic walk away for nothing, right? Common sense, etc.”
Ask yourselves the question: Would I be giving the benefit of the doubt if Vlade Divac had done this?
Vlade was given the benefit of a lot of doubts for the first few years of his tenure. Amazingly, had he simply drafted Luka Doncic he’d very likely still be here.
Trying to draw a line between this and the Vlade Divac era is the ultimate apples to road apples comparison.
I don’t recall Vlade ever getting the benefit of the doubt on anything. Infact, there was a large amount of folks that hated him being hired from day one. Some tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but the majority gave strong and deserved criticism.
I think the what if this were Vlade? is a very fair question to ask ourselves considering the amount of criticism he took for all the (in my opinion) shitty moves he made
If your powers of recall are limited to less than three years back, I don’t know what to tell you. Vivek hired him specifically because the fan base would give loveable, cuddly Vlade the benefit of the doubt. The glue guy! He’ll fix this!!! And it worked for a period of time that extended well beyond the bad decisions that were made under his watch.
This one’s a layup. A point that is so simple and nakedly obvious that I can’t believe that you can find objection to it.
I take that back – I can absolutely believe that you can find objection to it.
Gee, usually what-about-ism is applied to political issues, but it’s nice to see that mentality bulldogging its way into the sports realm. It should really improve the level of discourse.
You’re being pretty rude to me here. I don’t know why.
as I said, I recall some people giving Vlade the benefit of the doubt. I recall some people hating that he was hired from day one. Yes, the kings media gave Vlade every benefit of every doubt. The fans however did not. We are the fans, my comment was about the fans.
comparing our current GM to our old GM is only natural. Comparing how we judge them or when we judge them is interesting.
I gave Vlade the benefit several times..far longer than most, so did many others.
So did I.
not everyone did.
not everyone is giving Monty the benefit of the doubt.
not a hot take
Believe it or not, I was actually one of the people who HATED the dissection of Vlade because of his deal with the Sixers. I hated how people talked about how Vlade was bad etc. because I was in the position to give him leeway — being a new GM and all. As it turns out a few years later, I was wrong and he is truly an idiot.
How does George Hill manage to f*ck the kings three years after his disgraceful exit is my burning question
Once we get past arguing about timing issues, we still have to deal with McNair refusing to match the offer and keep Bogi, despite there being multiple teams interested in trading for him. When you add this information to what we already knew, it’s pretty hard to fathom that Bogi wouldn’t have had trade value towards the deadline.
Maybe these other pieces that McNair has picked up with that cap space will prove valuable in a trade in place of Bogi’s actual on-court value (and contract). But McNair has definitely put himself under the microscope on this one.
Agreed, along with the component of 2 bigger contracts being easier to move than 3. That is, does the flexibility of not having Bogi’s deal on the payroll make it easier to move Barnes and/or Hield moving forward? Being someone that would have matched on Bogi, I can see why the Kings did not match. The burning question is, of course, will the decision turn out to be the right one?
Yep, exactly where I’m at – and even though I would have matched, I wouldn’t say it was an easy decision.
And we don’t have the behind-the-scenes knowledge of the market from McNair’s perspective (for Bogi or the other guys on the roster).
Yeap, as it is, my only main gripe towards Mcnair (which isn’t much really) is that he didn’t match Bogi’s offer sheet. But I’m willing to give him the BOTD for now.
Agreed. While I find all the context we’re getting interesting, I still believe not matching Bogi was a mistake. The severity of the mistake is to be determined.
It does appear that at least one team in the NBA thinks the pleasure of paying Bogdan $18MM/year is worth at least moderately protected 1st. Obviously, markets change, but that’s one small piece of evidence against idea that Bogdan wouldn’t have been a trade asset later if the Kings had matched.
Technically I believe the Kings are still operating as a team over the cap. They haven’t actually used the cap space they created by not matching the Hawks offer.
And what’s really important is the space they have in 2021 anyway. With Parker and Bjelica they used up much of their space this offseason.
I was looking through the players who will be RFAs next offseason earlier, and there’s some interesting names. It would be a pretty ballsy move to offer a near max contract to Jonathan Isaac if he doesn’t agree to an extension this offseason.
Huh. Not sure how I feel about that one. Haven’t watched Isaac much. But isn’t he out with a major injury?
he’s been out for a while, but for like 20 games before his injury he was a one-man defense.
I’m a Buddy fan. But…If the King’s ever made the playoffs he would never get a shot off against the opposing S.G, because he’s so short. Anyone remember Peja S. Struggle big time, in the playoffs to get a clean shot off. SMH
That’s all good and well, but why is no one talking about Wilt Chamberlain?!?
This is a great analogy…other than Peja is 5-6 inches taller than Buddy and Peja shot within 3% of career averages in playoffs in both FG and 3.
It’s almost as if defenses and better players play in the playoffs instead of scrub teams…or do playoff teams just grow during the year making Buddy’s height a big deal?
People rarely say height is a big deal with Dame, McCollum, Steph etc in the playoffs. There’s a million reasons Buddy may not be able to get playoff shots off like those guys…his height isn’t particularly among them.
I’d also not noticed a guy dropping bombs at a 41.3% clip over his career having any difficulty getting shots away.
Can you even trade 2 seconds for 18mil? Isn’t there also the possibility the Hawks were attaching some undesirable salary, and Monte said no? Sam’s got some clarifying to do for sure.
The Hawks had space to take Bogi’s deal, I believe. But I was curious as well if there were other pieces to this potential deal.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought all trades had to be within a certain percentage of each other.
The rules are complicated, but a team under the cap doesn’t necessarily need to match salaries.
The tougher part would be from the Kings end, not the Hawks. Cap room makes everything possible.
See my comment below. We *never* get the full story. Overreacting is silly.
Turns out the offer including taking back Tony Snell and his 12 mil contract. And McNair had an hour to respond.
who’s the idiot?
Hard to tell. Snell is an expiring, and shot 40% from three the last four seasons. He could have been a decent trade chip.
Was that in Sam’s update at the Athletic? I let my subscription expire, so can’t see the details.
Yeah. He since learned more, and since he’s a better writer than most he updated his story.
it still might not have been the best move. But I’m sure there aspects we will never know. I’m giving our new GM chance before assuming he’s awful.
I’m not going to assume he’s awful. I’m not going to assume he’s great, either.
Fair
Or maybe don’t run with it, until you have the whole story. He knew what he was suggesting.
btw, not sure it’s still available, but the athletic was on sale for 12 bucks a year
Thanks OG, I definitely need to catch the next sale if this one is gone. Think that’s about what I got it for the last time.
The sale is still happening. I got the athletic for 99 cents a month recently.
Sam Amick?
A $12MM expiring for a lottery protected 1st for a team that could very well make that playoffs in the East next season? I’m just sure that tips the scales the way you’re suggesting.
As a sidenote reminder, 2022 can easily be a generational draft. 2022 has a lot of good looking prospects (Bates, Holmgren, Wembanyama, Griffin, Dieng, Banchero, Baldwin, etc) AND it may be combined with the 2023 class. So even a non-lottery 1st or early 2nd would have good value.
I thought the first was via OKC?
Ah, right right. In which case, I’m pretty comfortable in betting on Presti building a playoff team two seasons from now with all the assets in his pocket. I certainly can’t see him actually sitting on all those pick to use them. I suspect they’ll pull a one-year tank to get a high 2021 pick, then attack the 2021 FA and trade market like a mad man. They literally only have 2 players and $30MM under contract for 2021 (Horford & Poku). Everything else is club options and unguaranteed contracts. Now, clearly they’re going to pick up the options/guarantees on guys like SGA, Dort, Bazley, but I don’t see anyone else that would be a lock. They could easily walk into next offseason with 3 1sts in a loaded draft, a boat load of future 1sts to trade, a boatload of unguaranteed contracts to trade, and upwards of $70MM in cap space.
Yeah, that would be an interesting scenario – if McNair had just pulled off a deal using cap space to take on expiring contract dollars, along with a first round draft pick (even protected), I think that would be received pretty favorably by most Kings fans.
I’m just imagining McNair thinking “worse case scenario we’ll end up with Bogi, DD, or a future first,” then ending up with none of the above.
With this added context, it appears that the deal on the table was a $12m (in expiring Snell contract) for what could be a non-lottery 1st rounder or a pair of 2nd rounders. That seems a little pricy. I’m not considering Snell the player, as that is really inconsequential for where the Kings are right now as a team. He would not have been a tradeable asset, and what he would bring to the 20-21 team means nothing. Add to that the lack of information that the Kings had at their fingertips as it pertains to the actual Bogi contract offer, and the Kings determination to prefer nothing to the deal and information offered makes more sense.
It makes more sense, but as Sam notes:
This particular sentence gives me the impression Sam’s getting some of this directly from the Hawks FO.
I don’t know how the Kings can even consider the deal without knowing the details of the offer to Bogi. I mean, you match 3/$45m without batting an eye, right. Maybe even 3/$51m. Knowing that the contract is a full four years and not three is a huge component when determining whether or not you would consider a heavily protected 1st round pick.
Also, San Antonio’s front office got played by Bogi’s agent when he baited and switched them on Morris, and he did to Philly with Bjelica. So given that scumbucket’s involvement, I’m not putting a lot of stock in the Kings getting “bullied” here.
I didn’t realize the Morris take backsies signing was from the same agent. That makes a difference. Worst part was San Antonio lost bertans.
They consider matching because they are about to lose a very good player for nothing.
i personally don’t think it’s that hard. Do you want to keep Bogi or not. If yes then decline the offer. If no, accept the offer and take something valuable back.
easy, breezy, covergirl
How can you consider matching when you don’t know the offer? You’d match 4/$80m for Bogi? 4/$85m? 4/$90m?
bevause you know the market and you know what you want or don’t want.
Monty doesn’t want Bogi? Fine. The reason why he doesn’t want him is because it doesn’t fit his vision, that’s cool.
Monty knew Bogi was worth between 16- 20 million per year. Monty knew what his agent was looking for in a new contract. At least he should have. Armed with that knowledge I think it’s pretty easy to decide on Snell and a future first for a player that no longer fits on your roster.
waiting fir a better deal isn’t a possibility here. You’re lucky you’re even getting this one considering what just happened with the Bucks. You take it and run!!!!
ð = Should have been Monty.
Really? McNair knew all this. Well, okie dokie then.
Yes, really.
Me: “Monty knew Bogi was worth between 16- 20 million per year. Monty knew what his agent was looking for in a new contract,”
So you are saying Monty didnt know this stuff? That would be more concerning than any of this Bogi stuff thats for sure.
I’m saying that there is a pretty big difference between $48m (3x$16m) and $80m (4x$20m). So when you say between $16m-$20m, you’re really not saying that much at all.
Rate and term. They matter.
Glib works better when the other stuff contains facts.
“Strong reason?” From where, Sam? You? Easy to say after the trade is long gone. And they were supposed to land on that with one hour of negotiation? Reads deliberately vague to me – as in I’m saving face or I’m full of BS.
Okey dokey.
That’s just so odd. If they were willing to do the deal without Snell then why didn’t they willingly offer to do the deal without Snell? “We would’ve done it had you asked” doesn’t really make any sense if the goal is to have 100% certainty that the Kings wouldn’t match before the offer was officially made. It seems like instead they had to do an overpay plus put a bunch of unneeded stuff in the contract that makes it less tradeable for them down the line.
“a strong reason to believe” doesn’t appear to be supported by anything at all. That’s editorializing, not reporting.
“Doesn’t appear”. I’d say it does, because of who wrote it.
They gave the kings an hour to make a decision before making the offer to bogi. Playing hard ball with the kings front office. I don’t know how to feel about this. It’s like teams can just bully our front office.
It oozes of indecisiveness.
if you made a decision as a front office to move on from Bogi and you’re ultimately willing to take back nothing in his departure then you 100% do that trade with Atlanta. Who cares what their offer to him will be, you already made the decision to move on from him. So take the expiring contract and future draft pick and call it a win.
I can’t get over that you and I are both commenting on the same set of facts. I mean, any two people will have varying outlooks, but the house of cards that you’re shouting from doesn’t even have any cards.
Yet, he keeps shouting, incessantly.
If people don’t agree with you, keep yelling and yell louder right?
People who know their shit never have to raise their voices. I mean, this is the internet and all, so fire away, I guess. Nobody needs to hear you admit to being wrong, but if nothing else, just stop digging.
If McNair turns out to be even one-tenth the dimwit that VD is, I’ll buy you a Coke.
Based on early returns, it’s hard to imagine Monte McNair not thinking. He might be guilty of over thinking a decision if anything.
This would be my guess – on the other hand, it was a tough decision, so probably needed some overthinking.
Regardless of all that, it does feel like McNair is getting a bit of “sacred cow” status here early one – that new coaches/players/GMs have always gotten to some extent with the Kings. I can’t blame anyone that’s skeptical, especially if they’ve been a fan of the team for more than ten minutes.
I’m okay with how things have gone so far. But I take no issue with the criticisms or those who want to see more.
But I’m willing to give Monte McNair time. My favorite thing isn’t that he’s willing to do the hard thing if he thinks it will improve the team. Plenty of GMs don’t do that.
But what’s been proven? Nothing yet. I’ve also said that several times. My concern was Vivek meddling, if that’s not the case there’s not much w/r/t Bogi IMO.
We’ll find out where all of this stuff lands as time passes. We always do!
Wow. I thought Vivek had something to do with it and at least he probably didn’t if you believe this. But this proves the Kings were in a very difficult spot no matter what here.
Still think not matching is the right call.
At least now we have a measuring stick to determine if the moves McNair makes with his newfound flexibility make the team better off than had they traded Bogi.
Yep, as always, proof will be in the pudding.
So when a restricted free agent signs an offer sheet with another team, the team that can match the offer does not see the details of the offer? In this case, how can the Kings responsibly match an offer or not without knowing what they are committing to? On top of that, there were media accounts floating around for 48 hours on what was in the offer. I’m confused…
Oh they wanted to add Snell? No thanks. Glad he passed on that. Would rather have the flexibility.
snell Is an expiring contract.
the future flexibility is the same. Flexibility for this season is slightly more complicated but not in a way that affects any trades you want to do over the next 12 months.
$12 million for two 2nd round picks? Glad I am not paying those bills.
do you not see that we are spending 12 million for zero 2nd round picks instead?
there’s a salary cap. There’s also a league minimum that teams HAVE TO spend. The Kings are under the cap now and would have been with Snell. And what’s to say you can’t trade Snell’s expiring contract and a protected 2022 OKC first round pick or 2 future 2nds if not conveyed at the trade deadline for something better?
I’m going to need to see your math on this one.
I see it’s now “officially” two 2nd round picks. Amazing!
Think we’d need to know the 2023 conveyance options before we assume it would be two second rounders.
2022 1st, protected 1-14.
if not conveyed it becomes 2024 OKC 2nd + 2025 OKC 2nd.
That said, considering his assets and cap situation, I fully expected Presti to build a team that can make the playoffs in 21-22.
Yeah, think I’m looking at it wrong – that there should have been a 2023 scenario, since the 2nd round picks were pushed off to 2024 & 2025.
Seems like an odd setup, but guess it makes sense.
We need to do our best and give our new GM a little bit of leeway in his new Job.
i’m admittedly having a hard time with that.
Why? Because I’m exhausted by Kangs.
My hopes and dreams were that the Kangs stuff would die once Monty took over. That has not happened yet and that hurts.
Maybe he’ll do better in his next eighty days.
Yeah, maybe change the title of this article to:
Report: The Hawks offered Tony Snell and two second round picks for Bogdon Bogdonovic.
Seems that would be pretty inaccurate, as well. But I guess it’s ok if it makes the Kings look good.
Write me back when OKC finishes top 18. Also, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Will do, if I remember you.
The bridge is in Brooklyn. I prefer cash, but can offer low rate financing as well.
I’m going to go ahead and blame 2020, in that you’re attempting to extend an “I’ve got a bridge to sell you” metaphor to multiple posts.
Switch it up a bit, maybe drop a “pot and kettle” reference.
It’s not the same thing. I’d have moved on to swampland or magic beans.
If you insist OKC is going to finish top 18, when they fully intend to finish 32, then you’ve probably heard that phrase a lot in life. Maybe you’re tired of hearing it?
There’s only one of us here insisting on what will happen in the future, no?
So you take it back then? Great! Snell and 2 seconds for Bogi it is. Thanks!
Does Sam Amick’s report throw Atlanta into the tampering investigation?
That’s a solid question.
1.) monty gets hired
2.) Monty decides to move on from Bogi
3.) Bucks deal gets offered.
4.) Bucks deal gets worked out.
5.)hawks deal gets turned down
6.) bucks deal falls apart
7.)*** what should have happened next?
In my opinion: Monty calls the Hawks and says, The Bucks F’d that up, you still want Bogi? If I can’t find a sign and trade deal before the draft then I’m content with matching his offer sheet from whatever team and capitalizing on his value or Buddy’s down the road. Let me know soon.
The Hawks then offer Snell and future draft pick with a one hour timeline adding what they hope is some pressure to the situation. 60 seconds later you call them back and try to negotiate something better. If they are tough and refuse to negotiate then you wait 50 minutes making them sweat and then call back and say you got a deal.
I’m having a really hard time seeing any positive spin on this subject. Which sucks.
Of course, you’re omitting a huge component. Once Atl learned that Mil was out, they had zero reason to negotiate with the Kings, other than to offload $12m in dead contract.
At $6m per 2nd round pick, I can see why the Kings weren’t enticed to take a gun-to-your-head deal. And not knowing the rate & term of the offer to Bogi? I’d prefer to know the offer & go from there, even at the risk of losing overpriced 2nd round picks.
Curious, why would they not know the rate and term of the deal for Bogi in this scenario?
I don’t see how they wouldnt know. If fans know the general value for Bogi’s market then Monty did too.
Theres no way his agent would allow a 15 million per year offer. We should assume Monty knew that.
Theres was no way Atlanta could offer more than 20. We should assue Monty knew that.
Yeah, but you don’t see a lot of things.
I’m going off of Amick’s report. According to him, the trade offer was made to the Kings, but no details of what was being offered to Bogi were included.
Geez, I skimmed right over that part. Yeah, that definitely puts another knot in the rope.
On the other hand, this is all part of leveraging power in negotiations, right? Maybe McNair felt he could be getting his pocket picked the first time around.
“Of course, you’re ” ?
I’m confused why you are seemingly argumentative in all your responses to anything I type.
They had plenty of reasons to negotiate. Fist and foremost being they want Bogi. I said try to negotiate something better. If they are tough then take the Snell and draft pick and Run.
Ya get what ya give, boss.
Wen did give any argumentative response to Rob or anyone else?
Slow down. Use your words.
I get what I give?
So you think I have been rude in my comments? I’ve re read all of them. I don’t get it.
I do.
And your schtick is super tired. You’re ruining the comments section in these threads.
Maybe try giving yourself a posts per article limit. We get it, you wear Bogdan Bogdanovich PJs to bed and Monte Mcnair is the devil. Can we move on now and not have 20 comments from you in each thread repeating the same thing over and over?
I apologize for sharing so many thoughts on the Bogi situation in a comments thread connected to an article about the Bogi situation.
Stop playing dumb (unless you’re not playing). You took a passive agressive shot at people that had the audacity to disagree with you a few days ago, and threw in the good old “goal post moving” comment as a cherry on top. You lack respect for alternative opinion, so you get it in return.
You want respect? Give it.
This is your reasoning for being rude to me?
A comment from 9 days ago that you over reacted too then is still dictating your rude behavior to me now?
Since you went there I guess I have to set the record straight. Several days ago you asked me to answer a question about some trade ideas I could come up with to back up my point about Monty and Bogi.
I thought it was a friendly challenge and I went along with it. I think I presented you with 4 or 5 possibilities. You clearly have it out for me Rob and I don’t know why.
Since you are trying to paint me as the bad guy here lets actually look at what I wrote that you are saying was disrespectful or rude or argumentative.
Your response to the trade proposal ideas that you asked me to come up with:
ROB – “I have seen no legitimate reports (or reasonably resourced rumors) that any of these deals were even available. This is like saying we should have gotten something back from Atlanta for Bogi, you know, just because.”
Your last line there was a little rude but whatever I didn’t take it personally I reponded with this
Arco Thunder: “So you present me with this challenge and then move the goal posts?
You didn’t say to present deals that were reported to be available. Were any deals ever reported to be available?”
how was this offensive or argumentative or disrespectful to you or anyone in any way.
Not close to accurate, but to save everyone else here time and misery, I declare you winner of the internet. Happy?
No, I’m not.
I have been very respectful to your rude comments and have not been rude back to you.
An apology for being rude for no reason would be more appropriate, not more immature rude behavior to pile on top.
You can keep being a bully if thats how you want to represent yourself.
Seriously – while I agree with you on some things, I think your approach has been fairly antagonistic the last few weeks.
Thank you Otis. Truly.
I appreciate the constructive criticism on the tone of my comments since it’s apparently rubbed a couple people the wrong way. my anger and frustration was targeted at Monty, no one else. If anyone took it as though I was insulting them personalIy I apologize, that was notthe intention at all.
Seriously — I will keep this in mind for the future in how I am structuring my thoughts in here.
If this was STR, this thread would be too far to the right.
There’d be 975 comments too.
Ya know Marty I was just thinking the same thing.
Peace guys!
Badge Legend