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Remain Calm, All Is Well

Why I'm not upset even though the Kings didn't match the deal for Bogdan Bogdanovic.

It's official. The Sacramento Kings have declined to match the Atlanta Hawks' offer sheet and will lose Bogdan Bogdanovic for nothing.

I've spent the last several days of the opinion that the Sacramento Kings should match the Hawks offer. It was my belief that the Kings should match and the explore trade options for Bogi. Sure, there would be a no-trade clause for the first year, so the Kings would need to find a deal Bogi liked. Sure, there would be a trade kicker so the Kings would need to either convince Bogi to waive it (giving up money he would rightfully be owed) or convince the receiving team to provide (Kings All-Star) Cash Considerations to offset the extra cap cost. But my belief was that the Kings should not allow a player of Bogdanovic's caliber to leave for nothing. Get something in return, for gosh sake.

So why am I not mad that the Kings did the exact opposite?

I think the Kings should have matched and sought a deal, but I also understand why the Kings didn't do that. It's not what I would have done, and based on an informal reading of Twitter over the last few days it isn't the choice that most cap experts, analysts, or fans would have made. There's wisdom in the masses, but does that automatically mean the Kings got this wrong? Maybe, maybe not.

The reason I'm not angry is that I believe this was Monte McNair's decision. I believe he's smart enough to consider the various paths forward and that he made the decision he felt best aligned with his vision for the Kings.

I know we Kings fans have been through a lot. We've been told to be patient so many times before that I don't fault anyone who is tired of being patient. Hell, I'm tired of being patient. But I'm willing to be patient if there appears to be a clear path forward. And I believe McNair has a plan.

In fact, I think it's the plan many of us argued for, myself included. The Kings need to reset around De'Aaron Fox's timeline. Hopefully that includes Marvin Bagley as well. It includes Tyrese Haliburton.

You know who isn't on Fox's timeline? Bogdan Bogdanovic.

Again, the Kings could have kept Bogi and then tried to trade him, but trading him in the first year would have required Bogi's approval and maneuvering around a trade kicker. Impossible? Absolutely not. Easy? Absolutely not.

What has Monte McNair talked about since he got here? From his introductory press conference to his unofficial statements via Woj tonight, McNair has talked about flexibility. The flexibility to make moves swiftly when the opportunity arises.

The roster we see now isn't going to be the roster after the trade deadline. I've never felt more confident about a Kings prediction. I think McNair will aggressively seek to trade Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, Cory Joseph, and Nemanja Bjelica. He might not be able to trade all of them. It would be incredible if he did. Bjelica and Joseph will be gone next offseason either way. Bjelica is an expiring contract and CoJo has only a small guarantee next season, both could be appealing for contenders at the deadline. Barnes and Hield will be harder to move, and I don't think McNair will move either for anything less than what he considers a fair value.

Which brings me around to Buddy Hield. In the justification for not matching, Woj said the Kings wanted to focus on the "young core of Fox, Bagley and Hield". I've seen Kings fans getting upset at Hield's inclusion as part of the "young" core. But this inclusion seems calculated and smart to me. That's McNair putting it out publicly that Buddy Hield is a key part of the Kings core. That's going to make Buddy feel valued. Buddy is back in the starting lineup. Buddy will have an opportunity to thrive again. And that should rebuild his value, to the point where the Kings could trade him for value.

Could all of this blow up in McNair's face? 100%. We're Kings fans, we know that rebuilds can fail. But it seems like McNair has a clear plan to re-center this roster around De'Aaron Fox for the long term. The Kings will probably lose a lot of games this season. But wait until you start reading Bryant's draft previews for this upcoming class. It's a class full of true superstar potential. The exact type of class you want to have a high pick for.

I don't know if this rebuild will be any different from the last 5 tries. But I see a plan, and I think the plan makes sense. I'm willing to give McNair a little longer, even if I disagree with some of the moves in the meantime. This isn't to say anyone needs to agree with me, to each Kings fan their own opinion. But I see experienced professionals executing a plan, and I'm willing to see how it plays out*.

 

*Unless we sign Hassan Whiteside, in which case we march on Golden 1 Center with pitchforks and torches

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mdeedublu
November 24, 2020 8:56 pm

Well, I’m still wondering when the Kings are going to get involved with free agency…….

Whiteside rumors aside.

mdeedublu
November 24, 2020 9:12 pm
Reply to  Greg

Whiteside is #15. I think that’s full tank mode though if those rookies are going to be legitimately on the roster and not in Stockton. If next year’s draft is as good as it sounds, tank, save the money and come out ahead next season.

mdeedublu
November 24, 2020 9:13 pm
Reply to  mdeedublu

Or maybe McNair is going to go all Money Ball and put together a cheap winning team. That would be something.

BeTheBall
November 25, 2020 8:09 am
Reply to  mdeedublu

That’s near impossible in the NBA though.

TitleChaser
November 24, 2020 9:22 pm
Reply to  Greg

Who’s the 14th? I can think of: De’Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, Marvin Bagley, Richaun Holmes, Cory Joseph, Tyrese Halliburton, DaQuan Jeffries, Jabari Parker, Nemanja Bjelica, Jah’mius Ramsey, Justin James, and Robert Woodard. Is the 14th Kyle Guy? We’re gonna give a regular roster spot to Kyle Guy, aren’t we?

jdwhit
November 24, 2020 10:01 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

Vanja Marinkovic, duh.

BeTheBall
November 25, 2020 8:10 am
Reply to  jdwhit

Duje Dukan is available too.

G-naps
November 25, 2020 8:20 am
Reply to  BeTheBall

Ugh……between this and the PappaG signing, two seriously STUPID signings.

BeTheBall
November 25, 2020 8:47 am
Reply to  G-naps

Signature Vlade moves.

eddie41
November 25, 2020 7:03 am
Reply to  TitleChaser

Quinton Rose

IvanowskiNBA
Member
November 25, 2020 12:11 am
Reply to  Greg

I thought Jeffries puts them at 13. But yeah Whiteside def number 14

Yakshi
November 24, 2020 9:11 pm

I agree with the logic of McNair’s plan. Aside from that, as a fan I am looking forward to watching these young Kings try to run other teams off the floor again.

Kosta
November 24, 2020 11:00 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

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Kosta
November 24, 2020 11:08 pm
Reply to  Kosta

.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kosta
ZillersCat
November 25, 2020 6:58 am
Reply to  Kosta

Nice work!

Jman1949
November 25, 2020 8:00 am
Reply to  Kosta

Shouldn’t it be NOT SO YOUNG SUBPAR TEAM

Marty
November 24, 2020 9:11 pm

I’m sensing that tanking is going to be difficult for some to accept.

ForKingsandCountry
November 24, 2020 9:26 pm
Reply to  Marty

I think it’s because so many people think we’ve been tanking for 14 straight years. It’s hard to spot tanking when what you’ve really been watching is incompetence.
Personally, I’m ready. Tear this thing down to the studs and actually give yourself a chance.

Last edited 1 month ago by ForKingsandCountry
Otis
November 24, 2020 9:34 pm

I don’t think tanking means signing Fox to a max deal, unless they are going to figure out how to creatively keep him off the floor – or don’t really believe he’s a franchise level talent.

ForKingsandCountry
November 24, 2020 9:41 pm
Reply to  Otis

I think that Fox is a very good player but in the Western Conference, I don’t think Fox alone is leading us to too many wins.

Otis
November 24, 2020 9:43 pm

Seems odd to give him a max deal then – but I’m talking about a conceptual thing here. I don’t think McNair’s plan is to tank at all.

Marty
November 24, 2020 9:49 pm
Reply to  Otis

Doesn’t he have more trade value now, say, couple a firsts?

Last edited 1 month ago by Marty
RORDOG
November 24, 2020 10:37 pm
Reply to  Otis

This may just be a bit of confirmation bias, but I’ve felt from the beginning that they’d essentially bring Fox in on the plan. They tell him he gets the full max, but be upfront with him that they won’t try to win until his deal kicks in. The goal is to have two stars, plus a complimentary third banana. The hope is that they have 2/3rds of that now (or at least once Fox and Haliburton are in their prime). If they can luck into the second star in the upcoming draft, then they can start to really build something.

Otis
November 25, 2020 6:05 am
Reply to  RORDOG

So in this scenario…Fox is doing what on the floor? Not trying?

Fox, Hield, Barnes, Holmes, Bjelica and a head coach who’s fighting to keep his job doesn’t sound like a real tank effort.

Marty
November 25, 2020 7:40 am
Reply to  Otis

Otis in my dream scenario he’s dealt at the deadline for future picks. Continuing to dream and I hope RORDOG’s scenario has some truth to it.

My own bias reveals I’m not high on Fox, and I’d like to see 5 or 6 firsts in the Kings cupboard before the trade deadline this year. 9 wins would be great IMHO. I’m not going to games obviously so what the fuck do I care?

RORDOG
November 25, 2020 8:01 am
Reply to  Otis

teams are allowed to continue to make transaction up until the trade deadline. Even if nothing happens, that’s still bottom 8 team in the league. I can’t really think of a compelling argument for them being better than any team in the Western Conference this season.

Otis
November 25, 2020 9:53 am
Reply to  RORDOG

teams are allowed to continue to make transaction up until the trade deadline.

I’ve been hearing this – so they could have matched Bogi AND had until the trade deadline to trade him? Weird nobody else brought that up!

RORDOG
November 25, 2020 10:03 am
Reply to  Otis

That’s still 2/3rd of games this season with Bogi playing. Weird how that works!

andy_sims
November 25, 2020 8:00 am

I doubt that the plan includes any hope that De’Arron Fox, on his own, is going to lead to more wins. That’s probably why they’re finally attempting to build a team around him.

IvanowskiNBA
Member
November 25, 2020 12:12 am
Reply to  Otis

The Kings don’t know how to tank and they don’t know how to win. They’ll pick in the back half of the lottery for another decade.

Otis
November 25, 2020 6:08 am
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

I’m frankly stunned that anyone sees what is happening as a tank job. If McNair were tanking, he’d have been much more active in a VERY active NBA offseason (for the rest of the league).

Marty
November 25, 2020 7:41 am
Reply to  Otis

Otis I don’t believe the deals are done. But I’m hoping here obviously.

andy_sims
November 25, 2020 8:19 am
Reply to  Otis

Are you suggesting that the roster isn’t capable of being a bottom three team on its own, and needs key players to manage it?

If McNair can’t get what he deems to be fair value for guys like Hield, Barnes, Bjelica, and CoJo, should he jettison them to meet whatever your minimum deal requirement is for the free agency period? Would it be better if McNair determined his course of action based on what level of activity that other teams were displaying?

For me, the ability to disregard this, I don’t know, peer pressure, seems like a good trait to have when you’re in charge. There are still players available who will make sense in regard to the time line, but they aren’t going to make anyone run out and buy a jersey. We’ll likely sign at least one of them.

As to Whiteside, for a one-year deal, I don’t think that would be a bad thing, mainly because at present, we don’t have a legit center on the squad. It’s not ideal, but a signing of this type would strike me as pragmatic, rather than indicative of any larger philosophy.

When you’re a bad team, and there looks to be real NBA talent in the draft, standing pat shouldn’t necessarily be an indictment of poor decision-making.

Sometimes nothing is a real cool hand.

Otis
November 25, 2020 9:54 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I think this team, as built, is going to do what they did last season – 30 wins, maybe more if Fox finally makes the jump. That ain’t tanking, IMHO.

rockbottom
November 25, 2020 10:24 am
Reply to  andy_sims

No guarantee that it will b e a great draft or that the Kings would benefit ! Hope you are correct but playing the waiting game means you get to wait ! No interest in a five year plan !

November 25, 2020 2:13 am

This is the first official tank job. The previous ones are Dumpster fire mode.

BabalooMagoo
November 25, 2020 6:34 am

Hmmm, I wonder what Fox thinks about all of this.

Last edited 1 month ago by BabalooMagoo
andy_sims
November 25, 2020 8:21 am
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

“Here’s $200 mil, kid. We want you to be a Kings player forever. What’s that? Our plan going forward? NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS..”

And then he signed the contract.

ForKingsandCountry
November 25, 2020 10:45 am
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

I hope they told him he’s the centerpiece of this team and that this year is going to stink but that’ll take a year or two to build a competent team around him. And then they probably told him to go out and win as many games as possible which I have no doubt he will try to do.

BeTheBall
November 25, 2020 8:11 am

I don’t really see them as ever having tanked before. In the past they were either not caring (Maloofs), or actually thinking they were making roster improvements to try and compete (Pete, Vlade).

Otis
November 24, 2020 9:27 pm
Reply to  Marty

This isn’t necessarily a sign of tanking IMO. Could simply be a sign of financial issues.

ForKingsandCountry
November 24, 2020 9:28 pm
Reply to  Otis

You definitely could be right and I hope that you are not.

G-naps
November 25, 2020 7:19 am
Reply to  Otis

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markdog333
November 25, 2020 8:59 am
Reply to  Otis

For what it is worth, I believe the reporting suggested that McNair did not want to match, but ownership did.

RORDOG
November 25, 2020 10:04 am
Reply to  Otis

It appears as though McNair had to convince ownership not to match though.

Gregoryl
November 24, 2020 9:27 pm
Reply to  Marty

We haven’t been tanking the last 10 years?

richie88
November 24, 2020 11:47 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

It seemed like the Kings tanked in the 2017-18 season, but I think that’s the only season where they were tanking for most or all of the season. Usually they’ve only tanked at the tail end of the season.

Marty
November 25, 2020 7:41 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

No we’ve been sucking at the Eight Seed Cycle.

Last edited 1 month ago by Marty
Otis
November 25, 2020 9:56 am
Reply to  Marty

McNair could certainly be doing additional transactions to get out of that eighth seed cycle, but I’m not seeing it yet. It feels like he’s hitting the garage sale Sunday around 2.

BeTheBall
November 25, 2020 8:14 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

No, we’ve just sucked.

Gregoryl
November 24, 2020 9:31 pm
Reply to  Marty

I hope we do a full, all-american tank job this year. That does not involve Hassan Whiteside.

ForKingsandCountry
November 24, 2020 9:35 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Just to play devil’s advocate because I can’t stand Whiteside, but isn’t he the perfect guy to tank with? Because I can’t stand him and he would definitely make us worse. Boy, would he make me really dislike watching Kings game though. And just to be clear, I DO NOT WANT THEM TO SIGN WHITESIDE.

Gregoryl
November 24, 2020 10:07 pm

Imagine Buddy and Hassan in that locker room after this team loses 8 straight? Our “young” core does not need malcontents stirring things up.

richie88
November 24, 2020 11:41 pm
Reply to  Marty

I’m fine w/tanking, but I think re-signing BB8 & trading him good assets should’ve been part of the plan. Buddy should also be traded for good assets, but his trade value will probably need to be built back up.

G-naps
November 25, 2020 7:17 am
Reply to  Marty

Again….how come I can only like this comment once?

Fans have been asking to tank for years but the asset/cap management during those years was not “tanking”. It was roll the dice on a draft pick and sign free agents to get the 8th seed so ownership can get that playoff money.

Its going to be a tough couple years but Ill trust the guy who actually has front office experience.

OG_Aggie
November 24, 2020 9:15 pm

They have five open roster spots, are around 6 million under the cap and have the two exceptions, one around 9 and the other about 3. If they keep both second rounders on the roster, that’s 3 open.

If Whiteside signs for the MLE for one year plus TO, I’m fine with it. Another trade chip. Give the other one to RHJ and call it a day.

As for Bogi, I’m blaming Vlade and moving on. Kings fans have to have short memories.

Last edited 1 month ago by OG_Aggie
BuffaloDiaspora
November 25, 2020 9:57 am
Reply to  OG_Aggie

That’s about where I am – Whiteside for the MLE on a 1 + 1 is fine. I’m not suggesting he should be the starting center but situationally he’s a better post defender than anyone currently on the roster and if he doesn’t work out that would be a very tradeable contract at the deadline. If he does work out, even better, keep him for another year.

Fill the rest of the roster with interesting young players, whether from the 2nd rounders, Stockton or FA and see what they have got. Most likely just a bunch of nothing but you never know.

al_lives
November 24, 2020 9:18 pm

SURPRISE!!!

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Last edited 1 month ago by al_lives
GreekKings
November 24, 2020 9:28 pm

Even though I thought they should match for several reasons (including being a fan of Bogi), I can see the logic in being flexible and seeing Bogi as someone that does not line up with Fox’s timeline (though I guess the Hawks believe he does with Trae). I also believe that matching Bogi would have put more pressure to trade Buddy and there is some logic to see if Buddy can get back on track with the Kings. While Bogi and Buddy are close to the same age, I think Buddy with his elite 3 point shooting has a solid 5-6 years of potentially high productivity left (particularly if Fox and Haliburton are setting him up) which would be on Fox’s and the young trio’s timeline. I guess at this stage one had to go.

richie88
November 24, 2020 11:51 pm
Reply to  GreekKings

I would’ve re-signed BB8, but I would’ve traded him as soon as a good deal was available. Buddy should be traded as soon as a good deal is available.

Gregoryl
November 24, 2020 9:30 pm

I’ll steal this from the KHTK guys this am: if we don’t match Bogi, and then go sign a load like Hassan Whiteside, that means the Ranadivé boys are more involved than they should be.

The_Kings_Whine
November 24, 2020 9:30 pm

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning’s end. -Loyal Kings fans’ mantra since 1985.

November 25, 2020 2:16 am

I thought our mantra’s “We didn’t start the fire, it was always burning since the world’s been turning.”

markdog333
November 25, 2020 4:45 am

I am pretty sure it is “Thank you sir, may I have another”

Otis
November 24, 2020 9:31 pm

I don’t think it’s too complicated. We are a franchise with limited assets, and we just let one go without compensation. And I had no overwhelming love for Bogi.

But it’s certainly not a franchise killing mistake. We’ll see what’s next.

markdog333
November 25, 2020 5:00 am
Reply to  Otis

I think someone mentioned it yesterday, but matching him at that price is the higher risk/higher reward option. If BB8 has ongoing knee issues or something like that, his market could dry up completely. I would not have matched, but it was a very close call to me.

Last edited 1 month ago by markdog333
Ccc
Ccc
November 24, 2020 9:38 pm

”a player of bogdonovic’s caliber.” Meh. The kings aren’t letting Michael Jordan go, it’s bogdan bogdonovic. If he stays on a shitty kings team they just risk his trade value sinking, then have to choose to keep him with a 70 million dollar contract or trade him for expirings or another mediocre player.

I love bogi but let’s not over value him. Happy he is with a better team where he can be a meaningful role player.

Otis
November 25, 2020 6:10 am
Reply to  Ccc

I think you could talk yourself into letting any asset walk without compensation if this is your criteria:

The kings aren’t letting Michael Jordan go,

This is one of my least favorite arguments on sports message boards. Again, it was used back in the day to defend Pete D when he didn’t match IT’s offer.

Last edited 1 month ago by Otis
deepshot22
November 24, 2020 9:45 pm

Not getting a return on Bogi stinks, admittedly. But I still feel cautious excitement for what could be if this thing is actually done right. I wish they could find a way to trade for one more first round pick in next year’s loaded class. Maybe they can take on a real garbage contract for Barnes or Buddy to get it?

I hope Bjeli, Holmes, Parker, and one of Buddy/Barnes are all gone by the deadline for young assets and draft capital in the next two years.

Last edited 1 month ago by deepshot22
TitleChaser
November 24, 2020 9:46 pm

So Basketball Reference has us at $96, 484, 325 for nine salaries. Add Halliburton at $3,831,840 (12th pick at 120%). Let’s call the two second rounders at 1.6 mill (Justin James plus 100k). Presume Jeffries at maybe 2 million or so. Maybe another guy or two at 1.5 each or so. That very rough estimate puts us at $108,515,525 for 15 guys, or about 624k under the salary. If the team is aggressive with the second rounders and/or Jeffries and/or runs on with 13 guys, we can get closer to 4 million under. Either way, we’re not far enough under to absorb a lot of salary, but do have a little flexibility for now and the future, so that’s something I suppose.

MitchRichmondThree
November 24, 2020 9:49 pm

There has been a lot of talk well before the draft of the team going super young. I would prefer that as opposed to making a couple of random free-agent signings for veterans beyond a minimum to fill the roster. Keep everyone up with the big team this year and see what happens. The Kings need to develop an identity, and that identity has to be speed.

Kingsguru21
November 24, 2020 9:56 pm

Could all of this blow up in McNair’s face? 100%. We’re Kings fans, we know that rebuilds can fail. But it seems like McNair has a clear plan to re-center this roster around De’Aaron Fox for the long term. The Kings will probably lose a lot of games this season. But wait until you start reading Bryant’s draft previews for this upcoming class. It’s a class full of true superstar potential. The exact type of class you want to have a high pick for.

I don’t know if this rebuild will be any different from the last 5 tries. But I see a plan, and I think the plan makes sense. I’m willing to give McNair a little longer, even if I disagree with some of the moves in the meantime. This isn’t to say anyone needs to agree with me, to each Kings fan their own opinion. But I see experienced professionals executing a plan, and I’m willing to see how it plays out*.

Well said Greg. I’ve been trying to basically say much of what your post has aimed at the last few days. None of this is about ideal, not from the very start. But at least I feel like there’s a plan that COULD actually work. I never felt like that in the Pete or Vlade era at the beginning.

About the only thing I disagree with is automatically trading Barnes and Hield. I think because both not only play, but play lots of minutes, there’s value in that. It’s easy to point out what they don’t do so I’ll just post a few numbers instead.

Player A career: 56.6 TS%, 24.6 USG%, 107 ORtg, 113 DRtg, 14.1 DRB%, 12.7 AST%, 10.8 TOV%, 0.71 WS/48

Player B career: 55 TS%, 21.4 USG%, 108 ORtg, 113 DRtg, 11.1 DRB%, 18.5 AST%, 11.8 TOV%, 0.71 WS/48

Player C career: 54.4 TS%, 19.6 USG%, 108 ORtg, 110 DRtg, 13.8 DRB%, 7.9 AST%, 8.5 TOV%, 0.86 WS/48

Player A is Buddy Hield, Player B is Bogdan Bogdanovich and Player C is Harrison Barnes.

I think that proves much of my point. Maybe Bogi’s positionality provides context and nuance beyond numbers, but what does playing every game and more minutes add to that argument? Also, over the last 3 seasons, Buddy Hield has played 6,855 total minutes. Harrison Barnes has played 7,643 minutes. Bogdan Bogdanovich has played 5,888 minutes. That’s substantially different no matter how you wanna slice it.

Certainly I think this is the biggest issue. You have 3 similar players in terms of overall value, and two are signed and one wasn’t. I don’t really see what much more anybody could have done in all reality other than lock yourself into a roster with 3 similar value players in which all do different things in theory and playing together bring it’s own special problems in actuality.

Could the Kings have done better in trade if they matched? Yeah, been there, argued that. Would moving Buddy Hield, in particular, been better all things being equal? Maybe. Maybe not. But those weren’t viable options for the Kings, and unfortunately they were left with two different but very undesirable options. And it is what it is.

My biggest takeaway from all this is that Monte McNair has no lack of confidence in his vision of how to build the roster. Hate it, don’t hate it, doesn’t matter. If the Kings end up getting a star level player in the ’21 draft, will people be that upset over Bogi’s offer sheet not being matched? Probably not, that’s the bottom line here. If the cap space gets utilized reasonably well, will it matter that Bogi walked? Probably not.

Will it work? Eh, who knows. But I sure as hell like Monte McNair’s process more than any other GM in the Vivek era, and that’s saying something in of itself. It’s small progress even if unwelcome progress in the interim. I’ll take it.

IvanowskiNBA
Member
November 25, 2020 12:16 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

He lets a good player walk for nothing and suddenly he has such vision! Such process! Five days of doing literally nothing! Inspired!

Kingsguru21
November 25, 2020 12:48 am
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

I feel like if I rubbed a bunch of potatoes on you right now, they would taste quite good. Salt and taters, mmm mmmmm.

andy_sims
November 25, 2020 8:29 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Nicely broken down, Pook.

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
November 24, 2020 9:57 pm

So what you’re saying is…..
comment image

😉

Kosta
November 24, 2020 11:16 pm
Reply to  Klam

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Mike120
November 24, 2020 10:07 pm

Again, I was in the match Bogi camp, but I agree with Greg here. We were a 31-41 team with him. He’s a nice complementary player. It’s sad that he was arguably our second best player, but that is on Vlade. Would’ve preferred to get something rather than nothing, but the 4/$72M not being on the hook is something. Let’s just run all the young kids. Give them real time to see what they got as bona-fide NBA players. I think Fox is a lock to be an All-Star in the near future. Haliburton too in 3-4 years. Get a stud in the next draft and you have a real core. If Bagley comes close to the production we expected when he was drafted and even one of the new rookies/sophomores can be solid rotation players, then you got hope for the future. The Garrett Temple, Aaron Afflalo, George Hill, Marco Bellinelli, Anthony Tolliver, Vince Carter days are over. For that I’m thankful. Now let’s continue the clean up and move on from Yogi and CoJo.

P.S. Why do I think Ramsey reminds me of both Ben McLemore and Donovan Mitchell? Which one will he end up closer to being?

Chef
November 25, 2020 12:21 am
Reply to  Mike120

Lol so I’m not the only one who thought Ramsey reminded me of Ben Mclemore. Ben had all the tools in the shed to be a great player, unfortunatley he didnt have the game sense and IQ to put it all together….just like the draft process had predicted. Hopefully Ramsey has that.

RikSmits
November 24, 2020 10:10 pm

There were arguments for both decisions, and Monte picked this one.

It helps clear the logjam at SG, may help to keep Buddy calm, aids the tank and allows for cap flexibility. It remains to be seen what that cap flexibility brings us, because in itself cap flexibility is nothing more than glorified cash considerations.

Too early in Monte;s tenure to be mad about him, we have to see how the rookies and this step plays out.

I also agree that much of that is out the window if we bring Whiteside.

November 24, 2020 10:13 pm

As someone not following it closely, I was surprised Bogi wasn’t kept just to retain assets, but I also felt retaining assets like Allen Crabbe for my Blazers was the right call and that didn’t help us at all. It just lead to overpaying him and then overpaying someone else when we finally got rid of Crabbe in a trade. So I dunno the right call!

Bogi is also older than I thought; I assume that might be a common mistake people make if they’re not following it closely enuff (like me), since I have him filed away as “young new decent player on the way up” but he’s already a grandpa.

IF YOU GET HASSAN, I do apologize, but at the very least he produces! I felt like he did all he could do for us last year, and it’s not necessarily his fault that he’s so big and can’t cover the pick and roll well. He can lose focus, but he can lose focus while also putting up insane stat lines and if ya get him and he’s starting I heartily recommend picking him up in Fantasy leagues. He was my secret weapon last year.

I hope a trade can come through to pair Fox up with someone for the longterm!

RikSmits
November 24, 2020 10:15 pm
Reply to  Mortimer

With all due respect, I have zero interest in having guys on my team for their fantasy value.

Now you guys take care of Harry Giles, okay? He’s a treasure.

November 24, 2020 10:20 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

That’s another one I don’t get but I didn’t wanna bug you guys for info… why was Giles let go?

I watch Kings games through the season, not every game of course but regularly, and he looked like a legit player to me. I know he has injury issues, but I don’t get why he was let go and had to take a min deal with the Blazers.

I like him a lot, he seems great! And seems like a good kid to boot. I’m hoping he can get minutes right away, and he might since Zach Collins is still rehabbing.

RikSmits
November 24, 2020 10:24 pm
Reply to  Mortimer

In short: Vlade doing Vlade things.
Don’t look for a rational reasoning here.

He is a great kid, and his passing from the high post and energy is exciting. Still a work in progress, though.

richie88
November 24, 2020 11:57 pm
Reply to  Mortimer

Vlade made Giles an UFA b/c he was upset that Giles was allegedly out of shape last season (though he didn’t look out of shape).

BuffaloDiaspora
November 25, 2020 10:11 am
Reply to  richie88

he didn’t look out of shape

I don’t think they meant “fat” – I suspect there were specific strength, conditioning and/or (minimum) weight goals that he missed. And given how clearly pissed the team was about it, they were likely missed by a mile

RORDOG
November 24, 2020 10:22 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Whiteside’s advanced stats last season were good, and the team performed well when he was on the floor.

There’s price point that makes him a positive asset. I’m willing to withhold judgement until we see the contract figures.

As a side note it would be fun to be in a fantasy league that utilized advanced statistics.

RikSmits
November 24, 2020 10:42 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Yeah, I am still not sold on him. He still looks like a guy who is mainly focused on getting his stats and not about working hard to help the team. Between him and Jabari Parker, they are not the kind of players who I want as the veterans surrounding Bagley.

Also, we do not have a coach or a veteran leader (Dame) to keep him properly in check.

This IMO is one of the examples why advanced stats are an important tool, but not the only deciding factor.

Otis
November 25, 2020 6:13 am
Reply to  RORDOG

The important thing though – signing Whiteside would give ammo to both the “we’re tanking” and “we’re not tanking” sides!

ForKingsandCountry
November 25, 2020 10:48 am
Reply to  Otis

At this point, signing Whiteside placates the entire fanbase!! Make it happen!

Kingsguru21
November 25, 2020 12:13 am
Reply to  Mortimer

Hey Morty, could you tell Rick to get rid of COVID for us? Much obliged!

Jokes aside, just read through a few of these threads from the last few days if you have a few hundred hours to kill. You’ll have those who believe in retaining an asset at what’s fair value. Others will believe flexibility with the roster, cap and the like combined with the 2021 draft is where this franchise should focus it’s resources. Your Allen Crabbe point (I had totally forgotten about that!) has been mine anout potential trades: Getting value in trade in those scenarios is tough. Tougher than normal IMO. Thus, I’m not banking on trading Bogi for a quality return.

As far as Harry Giles, love him, love his potential, and Vlade Divac screwed up not picking up his option. But, there’s a reason he got a minimum deal, too. He’s got a bit of shitbird in him (love that phrase Jerry Reynolds used about Harry the other day) in that he’s physical and has attitude. Great passer. Rebounds well enough.

But he fouls. Alot. And isn’t a reliable scorer let alone a dangerous one. For every gift he possesses comes with a real drawback. He connects well with fans via social media, and he’s fun to watch if he’s going well. That could be Portland. I wouldn’t bet against it. But the reason he got a minimum deal is based on what’s he accomplished so far, he’s a 4th big man.

Where most think Vlade screwed up was that he gave up on Harry after believing he could be a star early on. And that Vlade pulled the plug too soon after being disappointed in the summer Harry had in 2019. Vlade was quoted as saying ‘Go earn it.’

So I don’t think Harry is a future star, but I think he’s got a chance at sticking in a rotation with the right ingredients. Maybe Portland is it!

November 25, 2020 1:03 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Thank you for all the info!

After thinking about it some more, I’d say that Bogi is quite a bit better than Crabbe (or Evan Turner or Harkless or Meyers Leonard, our other recent-ish bad signings) so I think he’d have more value in a trade (even if he doesn’t improve at all) than most examples where retaining the dude was the wrong move… BUT he’s also such a grey zone player…

I think I’d still lean towards “retain him and figure it out later cuz we’re not gonna lure a big name free agent with cap space anyway”, but I’m not convinced at all that this is the correct approach.

Even though my Blazers messed up on all of our “retain just in case” guys in recent years, I find myself still preferring retention over losing them for nothing, but I think this might be just because I’m dumb.

I’m definitely not optimistic about teams in markets like ours getting a good deal for anyone in free agency, but if losing Bogi makes it easier to swing a big trade by not needing to match salaries then it could be a pretty smart idea to let him go (I haven’t checked your team’s cap sheet to know if this is something that could happen; maybe you don’t have cap space anyway).

Mike120
November 24, 2020 10:16 pm

Got 11+ months to memorize tankathon. They have us picking Evan Mobley at #6. I do think our backcourt is fairly set for the future. Bagley has to come thru as an athletic PF. Is Woodard our SF of the future? Not sure. I like the idea of an athletic C who can protect the rim. Really hoping for a meaningful NCAA season this year so we can see the college kids play.

richie88
November 25, 2020 12:18 am
Reply to  Mike120

Oof. The Athletic released a 2021 mock draft today. If it’s an accurate description of the prospects, there are 6 prospects (Cunningham, Green, Boston, Kuminga, Keon Johnson & Williams) that sound much better than Mobley IMO & 3 other prospects (Barnes, Suggs & Love) that I might prefer to Mobley.

1951
November 24, 2020 10:17 pm

Everyone good?

IvanowskiNBA
Member
November 24, 2020 10:20 pm
Reply to  1951

No

Hobby916
November 25, 2020 5:16 am
Reply to  1951

Yup

G-naps
November 25, 2020 7:25 am
Reply to  1951

So another season without making the playoffs? Sure why not we’ve been here for 14 seasons whats 1-2 more before I start getting annoyed.

The old FO is out….next up new coach. What better season to let the coach go at the midway/end of season than this one?

andy_sims
November 25, 2020 8:36 am
Reply to  G-naps

Serious question: Did you feel that by making a particular move or moves this offseason that the Kings had a shot at the playoffs? If so, what moves would you have made? Certainly not matching Bobo can’t be the sole thing that will keep Sacramento in the lottery.

G-naps
November 25, 2020 8:59 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Nope…I have no expectations of making the playoffs this year or next. Im not happy with the lack of moves but Im also not upset by the lack of moves so far.

Its a new FO and its early enough that I trust that they know what theyre doing. As you mentioned below the guy has been on the job for 2 months in a shortened offseason during a pandemic.

Bbmuteman
November 25, 2020 9:06 am
Reply to  1951

I’m eating breakfast. I’m great.

anan1234
November 24, 2020 10:20 pm

I’m not into this timeline narrative. Since we are maxing out De’ Aaron and building around him shouldn’t we want the best talent around him regardless of the age? I guess they don’t think there’s enough talent at the moment to warrant keeping a guy like Bogi. I would have matched since I am much more a Bogi guy then a Buddy guy but that’s my opinion. Still bullish that the front office can build a solid team in the future my confidence in them hasn’t waned as of yet.

1951
November 24, 2020 10:40 pm

Imagine trying to build a team and paying $75m per for BogBarnBudCoJo.

IvanowskiNBA
Member
November 25, 2020 12:18 am
Reply to  1951

Honestly though, the Kings can’t do better in FA. Try to imagine building a team like that period.

BeTheBall
November 25, 2020 8:28 am
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

Assembling awful teams by handing out bad contracts year after year can rub prospective free agents the wrong way if they have multiple destinations to chose from. That’s how you wind up with RondoBelliKK, CoJoBarnBud, ZacGeoVince, etc

Otis
November 25, 2020 6:18 am
Reply to  1951

One of those things was really not like the others though – Barnes, Buddy and Joseph are marginal to significant overpays.

I guess I don’t really get what McNair is attempting to do here, but then again – I didn’t really listen to his recent interviews so I may have missed his bigger-picture philosophy for this roster.

If he’s trying to tank, it seems he missed a window of opportunity when there was a ridiculous amount of trade/FA activity happening in the league. If he’s trying to win, he just let one of his best rostered players go.

Dunno, we’ll see what’s next. It feels like another 30 to 35 win team though, and a mid-lottery first rounder. Hope I’m wrong.

furious.d
November 25, 2020 9:37 am
Reply to  Otis

Well we were on a 35 win pace last year with Bogi, so if we’re going to have the same kind of season either way I guess I’ll try to find a better use for $72 million.

Otis
November 25, 2020 10:08 am
Reply to  furious.d

So many non sequiturs, so little time.

Losing him costs us wins. That’s a fact. I expect that a jump from Fox, and Buddy getting back to form a bit (i.e, Coach Walton getting his ears pinned back) will get us more wins.

1951
November 25, 2020 9:40 am
Reply to  Otis

Bogi is likely the most useful of the bunch, but that is still the turd sandwich that Monty inherited from Vlade. You can’t win crap or build well with those four on the roster at that salary.

Monty is tasked with shedding them all, Bogi being the 1st casualty. We shall see how and when he is able to shed the rest.

Otis
November 25, 2020 10:09 am
Reply to  1951

So…if he were to shed them all without gaining any assets back, that would be a successful start?

1951
November 25, 2020 10:14 am
Reply to  Otis

No, but that hasn’t happened. He tried to get assets back for Bogi and it didn’t work out.

Not ideal, but neither would be getting strapped with another larger contract for a player who isn’t really part of the future. Bogi could get hurt and then you are stuck. He is 28, has more basketball mileage than most players his age, and has nagging injuries all the time.

Getting nothing back for him was not ideal and neither was keeping him. One is an unknown risk and the other is a known loss. He chose the later.

We shall see what he can conjure from Buddy/Barnes/CoJo.

RAP87
November 24, 2020 11:23 pm

100% agree on this. What makes me not hate this decision by Mcnair is the fact that we are going into a true rebuild and there is no perfect time to do it but now. Next years draft class is LOADED and I can argue its as loaded as the 2018 draft class or even more.

Financial wise there is no reason for us to be over or near the cap since this is a developmental year for the team. Mcnair is doing a solid to ownership on this one with the pandemic and all.

If you pair Fox, Haliburton, Bagley and 1 of Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green, Brandon Boston or Jonathan Kuminga then we truly have a foundation to build upon. Plus without tying too much money on role players Mcnair can easily target complimentary pieces to our core and that is something I can get behind 100%!

furious.d
November 24, 2020 11:24 pm

I don’t buy the formulation that choosing not to re-sign a free agent means losing them for nothing. There is always an opportunity cost to how an nba team uses its cap space. Unless you believe signing Carmelo Anthony to a supermax would be acquiring a veteran “for nothing” because the only outgoing asset is long term cap space, you can’t really make the inverse argument about losing a free agent “for nothing.”

$72mil is 7 Richaun Holmes deals. We can argue whether Bogi has 7x the value of Holmes, but the point is just that we didn’t lose Bogi for nothing, we lost him for crucial financial flexibility. Let’s say we use that space to absorb Gary Harris and a late first next offseason. That’d be about as good of a return as we’d expect in a S&T with $50m+ in savings still to play with.

IvanowskiNBA
Member
November 25, 2020 12:20 am
Reply to  furious.d

You can make that argument when the Kings have zero record of ever using cap space effectively. In Sacramento, cap space is worthless.

RORDOG
November 25, 2020 7:42 am
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

I’m not really a big fan lumping multiple GMs and owners together by just saying “Sacramento.” It’s like a woman saying you’ll be bad at sex because all her previous boyfriends were.

G-naps
November 25, 2020 7:49 am
Reply to  RORDOG

And in this case “GM’s” is a term used loosely. We only have a 1 week window into how McNair handles the cap. We had 7+ years of multiple “GM’s” poorly managing the cap; i.e. over paying, bidding against themselves, horrible signs to bad fits

andy_sims
November 25, 2020 8:40 am
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

I don’t think that strapping the organization’s decades of incompetence onto the back of a guy who’s been here about two months is a good way to see things objectively.

furious.d
November 25, 2020 10:07 am
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

So why not max Carmelo next offseason? He’s better than Daquan Jeffries. If cap space is worthless we might as well grab him.

Otis
November 25, 2020 10:10 am
Reply to  furious.d

Would that be a fair value deal for Carmelo?

furious.d
November 25, 2020 10:31 am
Reply to  Otis

That’s a different question than whether “In Sacramento, cap space is worthless” is a true claim that we should used to inform our decision making.

Analyzing whether Bogi is worth $72mil is reasonable and constructive. All the reporting indicates the front office took that question seriously, but only time will tell. Lord knows he wouldn’t be the first overpaid player in the NBA if it breaks the wrong way.

Pretending that $72mil of future cap space can’t possibly be an asset is silly, which is why I made that argument rather than saying Bogi is definitely a good or bad value at the price.

ForKingsandCountry
November 25, 2020 10:54 am
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

There are legitimate reasons why not matching Bogi’s deal may be the wrong decision but this isn’t one of them. “Cap space is always worthless in Sacramento” assumes this FO is just as incompetent as all the other for the last decade plus. Given the way they handled the draft, I am not sure that’s the case. Time will tell but I’m not there yet.

Otis
November 25, 2020 6:20 am
Reply to  furious.d

Losing Bogi didn’t really give us much additional financial flexibility though. And if Bogi performed to his potential, you’d have a nice trade asset later in the season.

G-naps