Welcome back to Chainmail! We had some truly great questions this week, so let’s dive right in, shall we?
From SMF-PDXConnection:
The Ox and the Fox are now this team’s clear 1-2 punch, but we know it takes a third guy to make some noise. What players would be a good fit and reasonably gettable? No one thinks the Kings are going to pull off a trade for Bradley Beal or Jaylen Brown.
Tim: John Collins was my number one target pre and post-Sabonis, and he’ll remain my number one target throughout draft night and the summer. Collins can space the floor (40% three-point shooter on 3.3 attempts over the last three years), he’s a fantastic pick-and-roll target (94th percentile), a force in transition (72nd percentile), and while he’s not a great defender, he’s a solid rim protector for a four. The Kings wouldn’t necessarily be fixing their defensive issues, but at some point, talent trumps perfect fit, right?
If Collins isn’t in the cards for some reason, Monte McNair’s boy, Kyle Kuzma, could be a cheaper, more realistic option. He isn’t as much of a floor spacer as Collins, but Kuzma’s a more versatile defender and an incredibly strong rebounder. Sacramento wouldn’t be losing nightly battles on the glass with a frontcourt of Barnes, Kuzma, and Collins.
Will: I like either of Tim’s ideas and I totally agree that both of these guys sound gettable and right in the Kings wheelhouse, considering Collins has been rumored to be a Kings target for awhile and Kyle Kuzma was a Lebron moment of passion away from being a King. I’m going to absolutely not answer your question here with someone who I think kinda, sorta, maybe answers your question. Yeah, it flies in the face of Monte’s stated logic while also following the broader strokes of his actions and while I don’t think this is necessarily a good move, it does feel like a move this management would make if the opportunity arose.
Rudy Gobert. Rudy and the Jazz seem to have yearly drama over touches and his fit with Donovan Mitchell and every year they inch closer to an inevitable divorce. With his effectiveness seemingly diminished in the playoffs and reputation miffy amongst a lot of NBA players, I could very easily see the Kings surveying the landscape of available higher end NBA players and seeing him as a bargain buy to a top 10 defense. “Sabonis is a center”, “Gobert and Sabonis wouldn’t fit together”, “Monte says he wants the pace even higher” – yeah, I know, I’ve watched the same games and heard the same press conferences as you did. I also think that Monte and his team are flexible and aiming far more towards acquiring high end talent first and making them fit later. With Sabonis and his unique set of passing skills and ability to work out of just about anywhere on the court, I could squint and see how it could work between the two of the two bigs. The defense has it’s anchor at the rim which allows De’Aaron Fox, Davion Mitchell and DiVincenzo to hunt more on that end of the court. The pace would slow but having two of the Top 10 offensive rebounders in the game could certainly net Sacramento enough extra possessions to take that hit. Fox would also have two of the best in the league in screen assists per game to help him navigate Coach Question Marks offense and better use his speed to get to his spots to score. It’s wonky, it’s risky but it’s something I could see McNair and Co. going for if the price is right.
Oh and speaking of price: Harrison Barnes and Richaun Holmes swap pretty perfectly salary wise with Gobert. We know the Jazz had interest in Barnes and getting Holmes plus picks (maybe a draft day trade after the Kings select Jalen Duren for Utah? Hmmm???) might be enough for Utah to ship a perennial DPOY and low-grade headache out for a fresh start before that extension he’s got really starts to weigh on them. If that return isn’t enough, slotting Davion Mitchell into that previous trade adds a total of $73k to the Kings payroll overall. Again, not saying I’d be over the moon about the Kings killing every player you’ve loved these last few years… but they’ll do if it makes them a playoff team.
Reality dictates this would probably end up being three teams to get it done and that with Danny Ainge in Utah NOTHING will ever get done… but I think the Jazz could implode in the last bit of this season and look for some retooling around Donovan Mitchell and if that comes to pass, I’d bet Rudy is more attainable than we think.
From Daydreamer:
How far could the Kings move up in the draft by offering Holmes in a trade?
Tim: Probably not very far, unless we’re potentially looking at a three-team deal, and even that feels unlikely. Most high-lottery teams aren’t going to be looking to sacrifice percentage chances at their next star for an average starting center, and Holmes’ value is likely going to be depressed due to his upcoming 15 or 18 minutes per game, as opposed to the 30+ he was receiving before the Sabonis trade. A third team getting involved might offer a late, late first rounder or a solid young contributor for Richaun’s services, but neither of those assets is likely valuable enough to get a higher team to move backward.
Will: Unless a team like ’23 season playoff hopeful team like the Blazers or the Knicks jump ahead of the Kings, I don’t think Holmes moves the needle enough to even climb a single pick for most teams. It isn’t that he’s bad value or anything… just rebuilding teams can find cheap young centers to fill their roster that they can wait on developing. Richaun is good now and valuable to teams that are good now and those typically don’t land in the lotto.
From SexyNapear:
Do you truly believe the Kings have magically changed the course of their team or is this just a post-trade sugar high?
Tim: A little bit of both? Domantas Sabonis is the best player in a Kings uniform since DeMarcus Cousins, and he may very well be the best player in a Kings uniform since Chris Webber. He’s really, really, really freaking good, and he’s going to change the current trajectory of the Kings, assuming they can build around him correctly, which is maybe a big assumption. East, West, North, or South, two All-Star appearances are typically no joke, and he’s going to snag a few more in his career. It’s fun to have a truly talented player in Sacramento.
Conversely, the long-term outlook of the team hasn’t changed as much as some others may believe. Jeremy Lamb and Justin Holiday are okay role players, and they’re maybe better than what the Kings had before, but they’re also not difference-makers, and Holiday is also a free agent. Donte DiVincenzo may or may not recover fully from his injury, and if he continues to struggle shooting the ball, his effectiveness will be limited. Josh Jackson and Trey Lyles shouldn’t be in the rotation now or ever. The Kings may have gotten good to great value for their previous crappy role players, but role players haven’t necessarily been the huge issue in Sacramento for the last 15 years. It’s been star-level players, and right now, they still only have one…maybe two. Let’s see if they can build on that.
Will: There’s definitely a bit of a sugar rush in the value that the Kings got for Hali + Buddy + Bagley and that’s okay. I also think that it isn’t that the Kings have changed their course, they’ve just finally decided ON A COURSE AT ALL. Sure, it’s going to be a lot of paddling upstream but even that’s better than sitting their spinning in the eddy. The Kings have the bones of a playoff caliber team… not this b.s. team they hyped to be playoff worthy at the beginning of the year and also not a high caliber playoff team… but they’ve got two foundational pieces that can usher in playoff basketball sooner than later for Sacramento if management does their job.
I will always be a tank guy. I’ll maintain that it would have worked and probably brought more sustainable success, but I can also acknowledge that it’s just as risky for your job security and requires more patience than I think this ownership has. I’m glad they did something… I hope it works and this is the start of something far better to root for than what we’ve had to endure the last decade and a half. I don’t fault anyone who thinks this is immediately a playoff team or an unmitigated disaster because big moves like this are scary and exciting regardless of the chosen direction. If the Kings had a firesale and kept Hali and bounced Fox and everyone else, I’d expect the same amount of relief and exasperation – just from opposite sides. Feel what you feel, watch when you feel like it… don’t be a dick to anyone who has a reasonable opposing viewpoint of this team.
From Rob Hessing:
For next season, do you see Davion Mitchell as a starter next to Fox, a sixth man/situational close, traded for more pressing needs (if DDV is re-signed), or something else entirely?
Tim: I’m hoping he’s starting next to De’Aaron Fox, as his defensive attitude is sorely needed next to Fox and Sabonis. I also expect his shooting percentages to continue in the right direction, and hopefully, by the start of next season, he’s hitting at least an average number of three-pointers to space the floor. It seems as though the Kings have identified Fox and Mitchell as the future of Sacramento’s backcourt, so let’s give them as many minutes and as many possessions together as possible.
Will: I’ve already spoken on the slight possibility of him being traded for more pressing needs but I think that it’s probably most likely he starts as the sixth man and situational closer for the Kings in his sophomore year for Sacramento. I’ll offer the caveat that that’s probably the case if DDV resigns but I think his best use at this point is to have him run the offense with Fox resting and the lock down the lead ball handler late in games with Fox able to take the lesser assignments to stay fresher for the offense to close out. By the end of the year? It’s anyone’s guess but I’d bet the majority of the season is him being a really nice sixth man for the Kings.
From 1951:
We made some nice trades and upgraded the roster for now, so now what? And it’s a serious question. Obviously, the mission isn’t accomplished, so what’s next in the team-building process?
Tim: First and foremost, hire a real, quality, qualified head coach. Don’t retread Alvin Gentry because the Kings made trades to get better this season. Don’t hire Doug Christie because he’s a fan favorite. Nail that hire, and you’re going from a 9th or 10th seed to a 7th or 8th seed next season.
In addition to that, get some more talent. The Kings desperately need shooting. They have two above-average three-point marksmen scheduled to be on the roster next year. They need to find some rim protection. They need to find a good (not we hope this guy can start because we need a starter) fifth starter.
But please, more than anything else, hire a good coach.
Will: I am 100% in agreeance with Tim here. First and foremost, you have to absolutely nail your next coaching hire if you’re Monte McNair and Co. Doug is not going to be the guy. I’m sorry, he’s one of my favorite basketball people but he cannot be your head coach after assisting for one whole season. Grabbing yourself a talented coach has got to be priority one.
Get Fox and Sabonis in a gym together and have them work on the two man game all. summer. long. If these are the two that are going to bring the Kings back into the national spotlight than they need to be in-sync from moment one. Another slow start for Fox because he’s got to feel out his second best player will doom the Kings. It can’t happen. Rim protection and added shooting come third and fourth for me here.
From Corneroffense:
What do you really, really think of Fox? And bonus question, do you think the Kings kept him because there was no market?
Tim: I don’t know what I think of Fox, to be honest. He’s not a top-10 point guard in the league. He’s not a top-10 young talent in the league. That’s not the end of the world, but it’s also not where we hoped he would be in his fifth season on a max deal (which had to be done, but I won’t go down that rabbit hole this mailbag). Every year, we watch more young guards pass his level of play. He’s quite inconsistent from night to night, and his defense is genuinely bad, occasional fourth quarter efforts aside. He still can’t shoot from beyond the arc. I don’t think he makes an All-Star game in his career.
On the other hand, he’s pretty good, not great. With Domantas Sabonis in house, I imagine his play and effectiveness will improve, and there are many, many, many worse starting point guards in the league. I wouldn’t dump him for a mid-first rounder and a meh young player. I think he’ll be good, and that’s fine for now.
From a trade value standpoint, as Tony put so elegantly on Twitter the other day, the Kings didn’t choose De’Aaron Fox over Tyrese Haliburton; the Pacers chose Tyrese Haliburton over De’Aaron Fox. And there’s a good reason for that, as Tyrese has a higher ceiling and is the more valuable prospect. There wasn’t “no market” for Fox. The Kings just weren’t going to get the sort of return they wanted to surrender him.
Will: I like Fox. He remains a flawed but incredibly talented point guard. If he’s the Kings version of Mike Conley, so be it, the Kings just can’t build around him like he’s their Chris Paul. I still think there’s an All-Star level to his game and I hope Sabonis is someone who can help unlock that level to him. I’m certainly excited to see how he plays during the last bit of this season and if he can carry it over to a strong start in ’23. I would also say that, yes, there was certainly a market for him – just not one that the Kings would realistically be able to trade him for and explain to fans why their butts should still be in the seats.
From Kangzville18:
What is your updated projection for the Kings record with the new additions/subtractions?
Tim: The Kings are at 22-38 with 22 games remaining. According to tankathon, they have the ninth-hardest remaining strength of schedule, although I don’t put a lot of stock into that concept. After looking at the schedule for about 15 seconds, I project them to go 9-13 the rest of the way, and 11-15 since acquiring Domantas Sabonis, putting the Kings at an astounding record of 31-51, a significantly worse win pace than last season.
Yay!
Will: I predicted 35 to start the season, I’ll drop them a game or two with these new additions just because I don’t think they can play much better than .500 basketball right now without a full training camp. There’s always a chance something sparks and they can get to 35 wins but that’s about as likely as completing a trade for a two time all-star without a trade demand, attitude problems, another all-star or picks.
From SuperShaka:
If Holmes struggles in a backup role behind Sabonis the rest of the season, who do you see as a good fit for the position?
Tim: I don’t imagine that’s he’s going to struggle for the entirety of the season, but the skill/money/value invested in Holmes isn’t going to work for Sacramento long-term. The Kings need to cash out on whatever value he has this offseason, and Damian Jones is a perfectly fine 10 – 12 minute per game center. With Alex Len also locked up for next season, the Kings should be fine with their backup bigs, especially with Neemias Queta waiting in the wings as well. They have an abundance of options at center.
Will: I wonder if the Wizards would take something for a guy like Daniel Gafford? I wonder how much someone like Mo Bamba is going to end up signing for? I wonder what the progress of Neemias Queta will be this off-season? I wonder if the Kings would draft Jalen Duren and keep him over some other SF/PF prospects that might be down where the Kings pick……… I wonder.
The white van rolls casually down a flat road in Central California. It runs north/south, except when it doesn’t. It is not a freeway.
“I like curves.”
“I don’t.”
“Does it matter how sharp?”
“A curve is a curve.”
“Not until I make it so,” says Lyle, who is driving.
“So, perception is all.”
“Yes. Some curves seem better than others.”
Evan isn’t driving. He steps in and around.
“Some curves are linear and, um, others are acute.”
“So said Euclid.”
“In the criminal justice system there are two entities and two slopes.”
“Don’t start with me, Martha.”
“I could teach my cat to say ‘Ingres’ but he wouldn’t recognize a painting.”
“And my dog could ask me to take him to The Frick. But why would I take him?”
With that question, the van goes silent and continues down the flat road in Central California.
Euclid?
I was told there would be no math.
Euclidn’t add it up if you tried.
The Kings lack shooting and athleticism.
Guess what wins in the NBA.
This team has one hope. Getting extremely lucky with the lottery balls.
Indeed, I don’t see much of a change moving forward post trades. The team is still a bottom dweller in the west.
Dueling Napiers!
If you don’t like that, you don’t like NBA basketball, ohhh boyyy!
Been tossing around a trade in my head that works salary wise for John Collins. Because it’s clear he’s probably going to be the Kings top target. The only question is whether Collins is available and for what.
Assuming the Kings get the 9th pick….
Collins for Richaun Holmes (trade kicker included), Alex Len, Trey Lyles and the 9th pick. It’s something I think at least Atlanta thinks about for several reasons. One, that gets them under the projected luxury tax (145M) assuming A) they don’t pick up Lyles option and B) they want whoever is at the 9th pick. At some point, they’ll have to decide between Collins, Clint Capela, Onyeka Okowongu and DeAndre Hunter. Hunter might have the most upside of those 4, Capela is cheaper than Collins, Okowongu is interesting in his own right, and Collins is the worst defender of those 4 on a team that is 27th in DRtg.
Maybe it’s possible they move Galinari for peanuts to OKC or something. Maybe it’s possible they move on from Capela or someone else. But I think Collins is very gettable for a guy due about 100 million for the next 4 seasons (assuming the player option gets picked up) and averages 16.8 points, 7.9 boards, 1.1 blocks with more assists than turnovers and who shoots the just under a 39 percent clip on 3 attempts per game from 3.
The raw numbers might not impress, but I’m not sure either Atlanta or John Collins are benefitting as much as they would like. It would not surprise me whatsoever if Collins is moved as there’s been smoke about Collins moving for awhile. And I think at least that offer gets the Kings a strong shot at getting Collins.
I still think PJ Washington is the cheaper and easier get. Is he as good as Collins? No, but at what he may cost he’d potentially be a better value to contract.
I doubt the Hornets want to spend to keep him as a backup when Bridges is their priority. Holmes just makes so much sense for them, and Washington may be worth near or a bit more than Holmes. A S&T for Washington just might be my preference as it wouldn’t require the Kings to lose a pick.
Slot Washington in at the 4, keep Barnes at the 3, Fox and Mitchel as the guards and Sabonis as the cornerstone. Draft well at the #7 to #11ish range and go from there. Match on Donte and keep the other cheap bench pieces. Call it a summer without overspending anywhere else. Start the season with a new/solid head coach and see how things play out.
Are there alternatives? Of course there are. PJ Washigton is certainly one, and a reasonable one. There’s just one problem with your scenario: It’s tougher to pull off as strange as that may sound.
There are, IMO, 3 main value to contracts. Superstar max players, productive rookie scale contract players and high value less than what they could be making All-Star quality players. Sabonis is in the last category, Mitchell has a high chance of being in the 2nd category. PJ Washington happens to be in that range of rookie scale value players as well. Although more as a role player than star.
Washington happens to be in the last year of that deal next season at 5.8 million. Holmes makes 11.215 million next season, and if you factor in his 15% trade kicker raises that total to 12,897,549$$. So by itself you’re going to have to find extra salary to make that work from Charlotte’s end. James Bouknight or Mason Plumlee are the only two players, who might be available, currently on Charlotte’s roster that work to make the salary match. Perhaps Gordon Hayward is an option as well but that requires a different set of things going on.
That said, I think Washington is not as good a get. He’s averaging almost 12 points for his career, Collins is averaging closer to 17. Washington has never averaged 6 boards, he’s closer to 5. He averages less than a block.
This feels like a guy you are swinging for in hope because of, in theory, he’s a value to contract guy. But unless there’s something there untapped, which is possible, I don’t see it. Washington doesn’t help you improve much defensively, has worse rebounding, scoring, shot blocker and shooting percentages across the board than Collins.
If this comes down to wanting to keep the pick, fine. I get that. But hope and potential are just that: Hope and potential. Washington feels like a 6-7-8 role player and Collins feels more like a top 4 core player. You have to pay for that.
Does that mean I would give up a top 4 pick to get Collins? Of course not. There are degrees to these things.
Last but not least, remember that the Kings will not likely operate as if they have cap room. While they currently have space under the cap line at the moment (how much is whom you include and whom you don’t), that’s also not including cap holds for DiVicenzo (14.02M), Jones(1,766M), or Lamb (19.95M). It doesn’t include any potential rookie you bring in. And you have to renounce ALL exceptions in order to be able to get under the cap.
So, while I think Washington is worth thinking about, I think he’s worth thinking about as a rotational get because you think he’s better than Chimezie Metu, not because you think he’s a core player. And that’s not worth keeping the pick IMO.
Even taking contracts into consideration, Collins is a much better player and value than PJ IMO.
Monte decided to build around OX and so now he has to get the right player at the 4 to make this make sense long term.
My worry for going after Collins is that it may take Barnes to get him. I don’t think a pick and contracts gets it done, and the Kings don’t have the contracts to match up to Collins. I also don’t see why ATL would want Holmes.
IMO, Barnes is the perfect wing to pair with Fox and Sabonis, so you don’t move him for a guy like Collins.
There are other stretch 4s out there that many of us haven’t talked about. Bobby Portis comes to mind as he has PO that he’s likely to opt out of. How much he wants on the free market is the question, but he could potentially be a nice frontcourt pairing with Sabonis.
Portis would be a great get, assuming that his price is fair. When you consider Sabonis, Mitchell, DiVincenzo, and Holiday, the team begins to look like one that will knock your dick in the dirt.
Atl isn’t a perfect spot for Holmes and I could see them trading him for something else they want.
But I don’t see any way to improve the Kings without keeping Barnes and thus the main reason for Sac to do the deal is to add to Sabonis Fox and Barnes.
Will Atlanta do it? Maybe if a 3rd team is involved. And that’s much easier to do over the summer. Hell we saw a 4 team deal at the deadline.
Would you rather give up a lottery pick this year and salary for John Collins, or swing a trade for an overpaid similar player in Tobias Harris with two years left on his deal? I know Collins is better, but its just a thought because I don’t want to give up a pick. If we pick in the 7-10 range I really like Tari Eason and Keegan Murray.
Some under the radar free agents I like are Jalen Smith, Jae’sean Tate, and Malik Monk. I wonder of Mcnair would have interest in Tate since he was part of the group that drafted him.
the rockets would be stupid to let Tate walk but if that’s the case I’m in
I’d rather get Collins than keep the pick and get an overpaid but talented vet like Harris. Harris is good, and I get wanting to keep the pick. But do you think the pick is so valuable that it’s worth acquiring a player that’s making 37.6M and 39.2M the next 2 seasons? And how do you even make a trade for Harris without including one of Fox, Barnes or Sabonis? You would basically have to include a whole bunch of players just to get Harris.
Basically, this is your choices. PIck 5 (or 6 if you include Metu and Lyles) out of this group: Holmes, Holiday, Mitchell, Harkless, Len, Lyles and Metu.
The one that I think makes the most sense financially for Sac is Holmes, Holiday, Harkless, Len and Lyles for Tobias Harris. And I don’t really see the FO thinking that’s a good idea either. They’ve avoided guys like Harris and traded a really valuable young player to move out a negative asset in Buddy Hield. I don’t’ see how bringing in Harris improves anything outside of keeping the pick, and there are cheaper more reasonable options for that scenario to play out IMO.
Tobias = Buddy in many ways. We finally got rid of Buddy, don’t need another one.
I’m not advocating to acquire Tobias Harris, but I think Philly wants out from under that deal, and he could be had for less than fair value.
I don’t think Harris makes as much sense as he does in a shooting challenged place like OKC.
The Kings are pretty shooting challenged at this point.
True but I don’t think his salary makes sense. Shoulda said that instead. I can see ways Harris could be pretty good in Sac.
Oh, I don’t want Harris. Just pointing out that the Kings aren’t shooting rich these days.
You would possibly have to give up our pick to get Collins. With Collins you know exactly whatyour getting. With our pick you don’t have that.
I’d love to see Fox and Monk in the backcourt again.
Monk would be a nice addition. I read an article about how the Lakers will not be able to re-sign him due to their cap issues.
The Kings have had little to no culture or that player that has defined the culture of a team since Chris Webber.
Acquiring Sabonis was nice but won’t the outlook of the team dramatically until the Kings get their culture correct. Whether that’s organizationally or with a superstar.
The Kings might make the play-in but who cares.
A lot can change with a solid head coach hiring.
I care.It’s a start in the right direction. You have to start somewhere. If you want to begin a new culture as if we had one it starts with a new coach. Not a new coach but the right coach. Thats Monty’s job.
This also assumes that Monte McNair is allowed to hire his head coach. A point we’ve not seen to date.
A couple of things:
Ranadive clearly let VD pick his own coach. There wasn’t a single team in the league thinking about Luke Walton, but with Vlade, once a Laker, always a Laker. He couldn’t wait until his player contract ran out here so that he could go back on a minimum salary.
McNair has made Ranadive look pretty good in his eighteen months as GM. Despite endless claims of the opposite, Vivek is not a dumbass, and he may have begun to see that his acumen running an NBA team isn’t on par with many of his other enterprises. Should McNair find himself getting interference, he can easily make an airtight case for himself.
I am dead certain that trading Haliburton was done over the strenuous objections of Ranadive, among others. That transaction suggests that McNair is the one with final say as to what happens in basketball operations.
I’m inclined to agree with you Sims. And I don’t think Doug Christie would be a terrible hire regardless of Ranadive. Who did hire Malone, and did hire Joerger.
Vivek Ranadive’s biggest failure as managing partner, IMO, has been trusting the wrong people to run the team. If he lets the pros do the work, he will get better results. And as you point out, he probably did object to the Sabonis trade because he typically reacts badly to PR issues that trades like that cause.
In DC13’s case, I think a legit case can be made he belongs as a HC regardless of Ranadive. But that’s because Doug Christie does know and understands the league.
I’m a fan of DC, but an exhaustive search outside the organization has to happen. There are a lot of young coaches out there who I think would be great, and also a couple of older guys who could be a nice fit with the roster.
There should definitely be better options out there than an inexperienced assistant coach. I’d not be surprised if the new HC wanted to keep DC around.
I hope they do an exhaustive search, or really, just interview everyone Monte is intrigued by. If DC is in that group, and he gets hired, I would understand it. He seems to have a very interesting mix of charisma, knowledge, communication skills, and guile that might make a turbocharged path a worthy risk, and worth a bit of a roller coaster season as he learns on the job and Monte charts the next couple of steps he started with the trade for Sabonis and DDV.
I hope they do an exhaustive search as well, as you and Sims have noted. I’m just saying that I would understand Doug being hired if he emerged out of the pack with the FOs endorsement. Doug Christie knows alot. But that doesn’t mean he should have the job without a real interview process and other candidates being involved.
I’m curious what about Christie’s resume says he should even be in the conversation. What does he offer beyond a connection to the one good team in Sacramento history? Is it his 60 total games of coaching experience at any level? Maybe it’s the key role he’s played in turning a .431 team with the league’s worst defense into a .431 team with the league’s 2nd worst defense? Or does he get the benefit of the doubt because he’s part of the vaunted Walton/Gentry coaching tree?
I still think he needs two or three years under a really good kings coach then if it works out give him a chance.
He’ll need a not inconsiderable amount of time to unlearn any Walton habits he may have inadvertently picked up.
You’re absolutely right, with a few years of seasoning, DC could potentially have the tools to become a head coach.
Still, if you’re going to stick with players who were around that year that we were good, you may as well go with the smartest one.*
*Scot Pollard could make a case for being the brightest one. Plus, he’d be the greatest train-wreck head coach in history.
Great, now I want Pollard interviewed.
Jalen Duren or the Baylor forward are the guys in the Kings ball park I think we should take a swing on. A long, athletic defensive forward would be real great in between Barnes, Sabonis, and a Gobert or a Collins. That team would be dynamic – solid defensively and create offensively.
Last thing I’ll say is that Tim is too hard on Fox:
You wouldn’t have been saying this as recently as the end of last season. Fox was one of those promising young guards last season. The only difference is now he got paid and he has to put up and he hasn’t shown enough yet. Fair enough. But be more patient. He’s capable of an All-Star team, especially with Ox has his other half for a full training camp in the pick and roll.
People who keep saying that Fox really made a jump last season should really look at his advanced stats. His improvement was incremental.
That is countered with “Yeah, but the last xx games he was elite at the rim”.
Fox always has periods where he’s good and periods where he is bad. He’s the posterboy of an inconsistent motor. And this season, there were also periods where he was completely disengaged and apathetic.
It all looks fine now, but I wonder how he’ll be when this team gets kicked in the teeth repeatedly and won’t make that next jump.
Fox, instead of bulking up, should hire a good sport psychologist to help him develop to the next level. I don’t know about the US, but many European sports teams use sport psychologists nowadays.
This is America, we don’t do “mental health.” Drink a Budweiser, rub some dirt on it, get back to work.
Yeah, I figured, although I thought it had progressed to pale IPA territory by now.
And the way I hear it, many US psychologists are doubling as salesperson for anti-depression pharmaceuticals.
Don’t forget pain killers and strip clubs.
I think our mental health unfortunately is addressed by our addictions.
Make the pain disappear for a moment….never deal with reality.
Some people are wired to be insanely obsessed with winning the way guys like MJ and Kobe are. Most people aren’t, and it doesn’t seem like Fox is. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, even if it can be frustrating to watch sometimes as a fan. But I don’t think any sports psychologist could have made Fox care about giving maximum effort just to watch Buddy ruin another possession.
I agree to a point but that still lets fox off for mailing it in. These are professional athletes I can understand frustration with a situation or a teammate, I can’t understand or make excuses for quitting. Which is what fox did this year….repeatedly.
I did too. I don’t feel bad about it.
The team has new blood, let’s see how it flows going forward.
Not since the big trade. I see a dfferent Fox. He looksmhappy and engaged and playing better defense. Go Fox.
Yes, I’m sure it’s all on Buddy. He was the best scapegoat left, when we couldn’t put it on Monte or Walton anymore.
Now Fox is running out of excuses.
I’d love to read some quotes where Fox made excuses.
Of course you would.
Here you are, the great quote of setting the bar of reaching the play-in, or as Fox puts it “an entirely different situation” at going 3-6 or 2-7.
As Greg put it, he is not insanely obsessed with winning.
Keep the receipt.
De’Aaron Fox on Luke Walton: ‘People can say whatever they want, but we know how we feel about each other’ – The Kings Herald
Terriffic quote! Not remotely an excuse for anything.
If you don’t love it because you’re certain that it shows that Fox is soft and doesn’t care about winning, you run with that, and far.
Come on Andy do you want to hear it again? Or if we only had two 7 game losing streaks instead of 9 game streaks we would have made it. Or I’m a scorer and that’s what I do that’s where I best help the team. Which is true but that was in response to a question about actually trying on d. Fox is on record making tons of excuses just this year. The receipts are out there just use google.
As Hitch remarked, that which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Upvoted for the Hitch reference
I would be interested in that receipt as well. It is tax season…..
Why would Fox need to excuse anything he’s doing?
He is usually the best player on the floor every game he plays, he can’t win it by himself. If it were that simple, LeBron and KD wouldn’t always be trying to get on the next super team. The lack of respect he gets from some Kings fans is just ridiculous.
Even assuming you’re talking about “the best player on the floor FOR THE KINGS” that statement hasn’t really been true this year.
I’m not sure how much respect you would like him to get. He’s a good player. Solidly top 50 in the NBA. With perhaps the potential to crack the top 30.
You wait he will go higher than that when it allsaid and done.
I certainly hope so. I’m curious to see where a leap would come from for Fox. He’ll have to significantly improve in some areas that he hasn’t shown a ton of aptitude in yet. Again, I hope he does. I would love to be wrong about his ceiling.
I’m really not debating the idea that Fox is some rising superstar or anything like that. He’s an imperfect player. I just think it’s natural for fanbases to find a whipping post and now that Bagley, Buddy, and Walton are gone, Fox is up next. He’s overpaid, but pretty much everyone in this comments section was in agreement on paying him when the time came. He’s a 1b type player that was forced into 1a expectations simply because the Kings never have high-end talent. My argument is mostly that he’s a young, still-promising guard and we should appreciate that for what it is. Players don’t improve in a linear fashion, and Fox may have a rebound next season or the one after. Who knows? There’s still plenty of time in his career.
If you look at him through the lens of what everybody wants out of him, you’ll be disappointed. But just because his performance doesn’t meet the expectations that others have conjured in their minds, doesn’t mean he’s a bad player who’s deserving of immense criticism imo. Not everything is in his control, and I generally try not to direct my ire at individuals who are mostly products of their environments. And the Kings organization is one hellish environment.
Nobody in the NBA is a perfect player l like Fox and if I’m seeing what I see he is truly working on his defense, If you want him at the end of the game and not tired then you have to sub him out at some point during the game. He is only human and needs to be regarded as such.
Fox is certainly a good player. But if he’s your 1b (meaning you only have one player better than him and only slight so at that), you almost certainly aren’t a good team.
FWIW I think of 1b as more of a tier rather than sequential ranking
Pretty sure Fox’s tenure here includes at least one example of the team being repeatedly kicked in the teeth. I’d cite examples, but nothing before two weeks ago interests me anymore.
I’m curious what Fox’s 3pt% ends up post trade. If it stays anywhere near 40% on 5 attempts a game, we might be seeing a big change for the better.
It’s been a rough year for Fox in that regard, but there doesn’t seem to be anything glaringly problematic about his form. If he can hit at 35% or better (which I think he can), then he’s as dangerous as any scorer in the league.
There are issues with his form that are going to keep him from his shooting ceiling if not addressed.
I think the Head coach is correctly stressed above entering next year. I have not done a full scope of candidates but off the top of my head of names I would consider Raptors assistant Trevor Gleeson, Celtics assistant Will Hardy, Spurs assistant Becky Hammon, would be curious on Kenny Atkinson and maybe a phone call to Ettore Messina if interested.
Im sure I would think of more upon rsearch but all those coaches come from the best staffs in the league.
I agree on Becky Hammond. She knows basketball but I am concerned on the fit. I have a person in mind if he would be willing to leave the college ranks. My man is Jay Wright out of Villinova.
Jay Wright would be amazing, but Vivek would have give him a massive overpay to leave Villanova. If the Kings are to look within the league, Darvin Ham is currently the top of my list.
Sam Cassell, Kenny Atkinson, Darvin Ham. Any of the 3 would be a good get.. Also it may sound crazy right now but if the Jazz go out in the 1st round of the playoffs, I wouldn’t be shocked if Quin Snyder gets the boot. I wouldn’t mind getting him if that’s the case.
I think if Utah doesn’t make it out of the 2nd round, there are going to be changes there, possibly roster and coaching. They are built to be a contender right now, with the payroll to boot. They have their same core under contract for next season, so how many times are they just going to roll it back?
They’d be nuts to bounce Snyder.
yes, that’s a big debate among the fan base.
Some say Quin is the reason the team plays so well when they play well.
Others say he is too entrenched with his game plan to make changes.
I think there is a gray area too. He has definitely created a system that works. However, he was late in the game to give more time to Paschal and Forrest. Though not the best players in the league, they did provide more defense and energy than Ingles was giving the team. Had Ingles not been injured, I think they would not have had that short win streak before blowing the Lakers game before the all star break.
Quin needs to loosen up his rotation a bit otherwise the Jazz are doomed.
I remember hearing that crap about Adelman. Folks just want someone to blame and Snyder is an easy target.
I think there is some truth to the criticism.
His reliance on Ingles when Ingles was obviously gassed or had declined cost the team several games.
As I said, Paschal and Forest are not all stars, but they improve the team’s D and bring infectious energy to the court.
I love Ingles but his injury, sadly, helped the team this year.
I doubt that there’s an NBA team that wouldn’t have to shell out eight figures per year to lure Wright away from Villanova. I’ll take as many of his former players as I can get, they all seem to show up prepared from day one.
Have you read his book”Attitude”. I am readng it now. If the Kings want culture every player coach and administration should read his book. Outstanding! I agree on his players. We have one Donte.
I have not, but thanks for the recommendation!
Becky Hammon recently signed to be the highest paid coach in the WNBA.
Which would make her the eighty-third best paid coach in the NBA.
It also means the Spurs would not promise her the job after Pop ! Many think he plans to retire from coaching after passing Nelson this season in all time NBA wins ! They clearly are not sold on her ability !
I am!
That has to be true since they didn’t give Hammon the job after Pop retired.
The coach she replaced – Bill Laimbeer – won 2 WNBA titles and has several years assistant NBA coaching years ! Plus 2 NBA titles as a player ! Why is he not a far better candidate ?
Why are you so glaringly misogynistic?
Actually, giving more credit than due or earned due to sex is misogynistic ! Seriously, Harmon over Laimbeer !
Incorrect! That is definitively not what misogyny means. And yes, there are people with a better resume than her out there. There are also A LOT of people with significantly worse resumes getting consideration for NBA coaching gigs. Doug Christie, for example.
I’m really curious how Hammon has a better resume outside of the years she spent as an assistant under Pop. I’m even more curious why coaching experience is so important when it really wasn’t for a number of successful coaches in the league. Steve Kerr being the best recent example.
I’m even more curious what matters a successful head coach in the NBA. It seems to me that alot of people have their own idea on this topic.
Aside from 8 years as the Chef de Cuisine at The French Laundry, how is your resume any better than mine, a guy who bussed tables for a summer and has eaten at a lot of restaurants?
If all you’re going to say is that it’s a prerequisite to be a successful head coach is to having been an assistant for x amount of time, that’s your prerogrative. But I see no evidence that that is true. It’s really a lot more complicated than that, and the most important factor of being a successful head coach, IMO, is knowing the league. I believe Doug knows the league. You don’t agree, then, oh well, you don’t. But you haven’t offered a rebuttal to what I said either.
For the NBA nerds who follow the league closely, in a redraft is there any player you would take over Davion that was drafted after him?
Chris Duarte (13) has a good argument for going higher, though I am pretty high on Davion so I still like him at 9. Sengun (16) has shown plenty of potential. To me, it looks like Herb Jones (35) and Ayo Dosumo (38) are the two deep picks that in a redraft would go in the lottery. Cam Thomas is really scoring well for a deep pick (27) as well.
So it looks like the Davion pick was a good pick thus far. Monte has drafted well with his two picks, perhaps he can hit on another with this year’s pick.
Nope!
Quite a few. But the obvious ones that have put up significant minutes and done more with them than Mitchell are Sengun, Duarte, Jones, Domunsu.
Stay tuned. In a couple of days my comments will show Davion should be higher than the #10 people show. I”ll give you a hint. DEFENSE!
Your comments will show it? Not his play or development, but your comments?
I am happy with where they are at in so much as they made a move and a decision finally. Good bad or otherwise that is progress for this owner and this GM. That being said they have about 18months to make a change not only for an organization but also to show Sabonis real tangible actual change. If not he’s going for the exit.
Also for what it’s worth I get the whole yeah but the kings can offer more argument and all that but he’s an all star and doesn’t strike me as the type to take a small amount of money more to stay on a shit show vs take less and go to a winner and get the extra money that goes with that exposure.
Tim, I completely disagree with your comments about coaches. Hire Doug Christie, a defense first coach and a solid communicator. There are only coaching retreads out there now.
Good questions and interesting answers.
More than anything, it sure is fun to think about this team again.
I like the out-of-the-box idea of trading for Gobert.
As you said, that would translate into more pressure from the team’s perimeter defenders. I also like how you considered how more offensive rebounds would make up for a drop in pace. It’s a gamble and intriguing. Though I’d hate to lose Barnes. I think he’s really liking the new dynamic with Sabonis. I am.
I guess the next move depends on where the team drafts at.
I like the idea of getting Collins (and Portis).
I took my first foray into the mock drafts. Some players that appealed to me were Jabari Smith, Paolo Banchero, AJ Griffin and Jalen Duran.
The first two may be beyond the grasp of the Kings, but the other two could fit.
Whatever. It’s nice to see the Kings with some options. So glad they didn’t give up that pick at the deadline.
I think Chet would fit nicely on the current roster. They need someone with attitude and a willingness to play defense. He might be slight of frame, but that dude is as talented as they come and can stretch the floor.
Gobert is 29, but has never missed significant time. He’s a lock first-ballot Hall of Famer, and is in the conversation about the best defenders in the history of the game.
I’d expect Fox to be able to bring his 3P% much closer to league-average, but it still doesn’t do much when you factor in Sabonis’ & Gobert’s inability to spread the floor. Maybe you don’t have them together on the floor much, and have offensive and defensive-oriented players around them.
It’s a fairly insane idea, but if you put Fox & Mitchell with Holiday and Barnes around Sabonis, and Davis & DiVincenzo with Holmes and Mo around Gobert, you’ve got two very different looks, with one trying to outscore you, and the other trying to shut you down.
Of course, this is the current roster, and things may look substantially different by late summer, and you’d likely need to send out Barnes & Holmes, so in short, please disregard this entirely.
It would be cool if we could switch them out each time they ran down the floor.
I think I may have suggested this in a post, you just call timeouts every time possession changes. If they give the coach a technical for being out of timeouts, they still have to stop the game. We have something like two dozen coaches, we’ll bury the refs.
Basketball T point O.
I’d love to see that second team try to score. TD would LOVE that line-up…he get up a shot every other possession. Moe running the pick and roll, big ragu going iso with the paint clogged…it would make for interesting viewing which is way more than I can say for the kings generally lol
I really like Barnes. He is one of the constant wings in the NBA, but we have to also take in account his age. Doesn’t really fit with the core group.
I’m not into Duran. I don’t think he brings much to the Kings. Smith, Banchero and Holmgren are all great fits, but as you say I’m not going to count on a top 3 pick. After them I’d go with Sharpe. After that it gets really iffy. It’s hard to argue with Murray’s combination of measureables and production. But really, I think that 3rd tier (after the top 6) is pretty wide and uninspiring. Personally, if the top 3 and Sharpe are off the board, I’m probably trading back and targeting Jovic and one of the big athletic wings (Murray, Brown, Baldwin, Eason, Sochan, etc.)
What about Mathurin? And donyou think Sharpe will enter the draft this year?
Mathurin doesn’t look like a guy with much feel for the game to me. He’s a great glue guy for Arizona though, and he may be able to do that in the NBA.
I don’t really know what Sharpe will do. From the small amount I’ve seen, I like him more than the other small wings in that range (Ivey and Davis). He has a pretty complete game for his age, great measureables, and I like his demeanor.
Hiring another former GDK (Glory Day King) in any significant form is another Vivekian condemnation, aka S.O.S.
Record setting playoff futility should be proof enough that change is needed. Progress means moving away from Vivek, his family and Matina in any capacity other than signing checks and their laughable and odious legacy. Their presence as the faces of the franchise mark the Kings and by association Sacramento with a badge of shame.
DC13 may be the 2nd coming of Greg Popovich, Lenny Wilkins and Don Nelson – but not in Sacramento, please. GM MM has started to pick a strategy and he needs to continue to mold something bold. That means leaving the rearview mirror and showing he has both hands on the steering wheel moving forward. Otherwise, he’s just driving in circles. Patience can only die so many deaths.
I don’t see why Doug Christie should be written off so easily, unless he’s just not good, which I don’t think is the case. He knows the game well, was a very smart player. Lots of players try to go coaching. Steve Kerr, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncy Billups, the great Luke Walton, etc, etc ,tons get head coaching gig opportunities with little/ no experience.
I’m not saying hire him, I just think he should have the opportunity to pitch his vision of a program, if he’s got one.
What coaches are out there? What’s a great hire look like? There’s no sure fire successful NBA coaches roaming freely that I know of
Terry Scott’s? He took some bad Portland rosters that only had 2 good players and made them winners. Three 50 win seasons and a 49 win season.
I think DC would be fine if he fits in to what McNair vision is moving forward. Doug seems like he would get the players to play hard.
Don’t let Cristie go. Keep him here. I really like the guy but let him be an assistant under a really good coach for a year or two then I think he will have the credentials.
Stott’s?
Like Scott’s but breeds 150+ million dollars for CJ McCollum.
Doesn’t have to be an NBA coach.
Badge Legend