Articles | Commentary | Injury News

Examining the impact of Marvin Bagley’s injury

This injury could impact the Kings in a multiple ways.

With the news that Marvin Bagley III has fractured his left hand, we're left to consider the impacts to both this season and beyond. We still haven't heard an official timeline from the Kings, but this type of injury generally comes with a 3-6 weeks timeframe.

Let's first discuss the impact of missing 3-6 weeks. A roughly three week absence would mean missing 11 or 12 games. Six weeks would mean missing about 23 games. A six week absence would mean returning at the end of April. The season itself concludes May 14th. Would the Kings even bother bringing Bagley back for 10 games at the end of the year?

Marvin's injury also impacts Monte McNair's trade options. There were reports that Bagley was up for discussion in trades. It always sounded unlikely that Bagley would be traded at this deadline. Between his current contract (which is higher thanks being the second overall pick), and his upcoming Qualifying Offer and Restricted Free Agency, teams were understandably reticent to acquire Bagley. But now, it's seems impossible that anyone would be trading for Bagley. Those contract concerns just compounded with injury concerns.

To be clear, there's nothing to suggest Bagley can't or won't recover from a hand fracture. These injuries happen and players recover just fine. But opposing teams, just like many Kings fans, probably saw this news and thought "Bagley is just injury prone". Through a series of unfortunate events, Bagley has missed extensive stretches of his young career to injuries. First a right thumb fracture, then a foot sprain, a nagging wrist injury, a sore calf, and now a left hand fracture. There's no pattern to these injuries, nothing to suggest any underlying cause, nothing to suggest these things will continue in his career, but an inescapable pattern of missing games with injuries.

Bagley had nearly shaken that injury-prone reputation this season. He played through obvious pain with his wrist injury, but never missed time and remained productive. He missed just two games with a sore calf, returned on a minutes restriction, but blew past that minutes restriction as soon as the coaching staff gave him the green light. Bagley clearly wants to play, wants to prove himself, and wants to get better, but his body keeps letting him down.

And that is really the worst impact of this injury. Bagley once again is unable to prove himself. Bagley's improvement on the offensive end this season was undeniable, even if some of his per game numbers were slightly lower. His defense was still a disaster, but his absence undoubtedly hurt a Kings team that was already lacking depth. Whatever flaws exist in Bagley's game, the Kings are still a better team with him than without.

Perhaps this is the shove that sends the Kings falling further down the standings and secures a top-level draft pick. Perhaps this encourages the Kings to become full-on sellers at the deadline. All of that could happen, but the Kings are going to be one year closer to making a decision on Marvin Bagley's future with the team, and once again won't have the benefit of a full season to evaluate him.

Here's hoping Marvin has a speedy recovery.

 

 

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Bbmuteman
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March 16, 2021 9:19 am

Hope he recovers soon and well.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
March 16, 2021 9:23 am

Random thought, if the Kings choose to sit Bagley the rest of the year, do they then try and extend him on the cheap, much like the Warriors did with Curry after his first 3 injury filled season?

I only say this because retaining Curry on the cheap was critical in the Warriors getting ancillary talent around their core for a title run.

Before anyone cries that Bagley is not the next Curry, I totally know that, but if the Kings think Bagley is worth investing in long term and see him as a core member going forward, then they have to be thinking about extending him this summer at a reduced rate. This also removes his RFA status for next year and may make him more marketable down the road, if the Kings do choose to move him.

Maybe the better question is, does Team Bagley think he is not worth a max extension and agree to a discounted deal?

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 9:30 am
Reply to  Adamsite

 …if the Kings think Bagley is worth investing in long term…

What would ever make the Kings think that? Seriously?

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 9:34 am
Reply to  aplumley

I suppose his per 36 of 19.4/10.4 would be a reason to think that he’s got a future in this league.

This is an answer to your question, not an opinion about whether or not to offer an extension.

RikSmits
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March 16, 2021 10:51 am
Reply to  andy_sims

He is definitely improving and is still young.

I’m just not a fan of taking a few raw stats as an indication of someone’s impact on the basketball court.

BTW, do you know who had a per 36 of 19.0/10.6 in his third season in the NBA?

Pervis Out of Service Ellison!

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 11:59 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Should I infer that all NBA players who’ve had similar third-year averages have gone on to be colossal busts? Because that definitely sounds right.

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:04 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

We could very well have found a poor man’s Pervis!!

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 11:29 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Almost to Jabari Parker levels. WOW!

ArcoThunder
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March 16, 2021 10:21 pm
Reply to  aplumley

Thank god we have good veteran leadership for our young studs to learn from.

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:05 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Indeed, though his per 24 would paint a clearer picture.

King4life
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March 16, 2021 9:33 am
Reply to  Adamsite

What’s the point in extending an injury prone backup PF? You’d be overpaying at that point.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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March 16, 2021 9:40 am
Reply to  King4life

I’m pretty sure Warrior fans thought the same thing about Curry after season 3. I think “glass ankles” was a common complaint. Remember they got Curry on a 4 year $44M deal after his ankle surgery.

rc50cal
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March 16, 2021 11:15 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Steph Curry played 180 games his first 3 seasons. Most of the games missed were in his third season. Marvin Bagley has played 112 games. That’s almost one full season fewer games. I’m not sure any of this comparison really makes sense.

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 11:26 am
Reply to  rc50cal

And Steph was playing at near all star levels

KangzofLeon
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March 16, 2021 11:28 am
Reply to  aplumley

I think Adamsite is just pointing out that this can make retaining Bagley a significantly cheaper endeavor than it (probably) would’ve already been, just proportionally speaking relative to Bagley’s own contract prospects if he hadn’t been injured

Last edited 1 year ago by KangzofLeon
Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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March 16, 2021 11:59 am
Reply to  aplumley

Near all star levels? He averaged 14, 5, and 3 while playing just 28 minutes per game in his 3rd year. He wasn’t an all star until his 5th year at age 25.

Otis
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March 16, 2021 1:16 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

To be fair, his third season was cut short – only 732 minutes. He shot 45.5% from three and his TS was over 60% that third season. I think he was pretty close to an All-Star caliber player at that point, and was a snub in season 4.

TheKingsGuard
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March 16, 2021 9:44 am
Reply to  Adamsite

It’s something to consider. I don’t think he’s a Curry (no one does except maybe his dad). Would you mind having a back up/fringe starter PF at $7/8 mil per year? I probably would. Would he take a 3 year, 24 mil contract to build his value and be UFA in a few? Seems like if I was his agent, I sure as heck would consider it. Now Kings management may feel it’s best to just cut bait. New regime, new coach, etc. But 3 @ 24 is ok. Now would I rather spend that limited cap room on Holmes if we don’t trade Barnes or Hield. 100%.

rc50cal
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March 16, 2021 11:17 am
Reply to  TheKingsGuard

My limit would be 3 years for $5M per. Last year could be mutual option. I would not be crestfallen if he left.

ArcoThunder
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March 16, 2021 10:29 pm
Reply to  rc50cal

your limit means you’re not keeping Bagley. just sayin. I’m not saying your # is wrong or stupid. I’m just saying that someone will definitely offer him more than 5 mil per year just off of potential alone

oshima9
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March 16, 2021 9:48 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I don’t see this happening because Team Bagley wouldn’t accept it. But it is also important to note that Curry had proven himself to be an established player in the league, just injury prone. Bagley has a lot more issues than that, there’s a lot more uncertainty there.

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 11:27 am
Reply to  oshima9

Team Bagley might not have a choice. Market value is market value.

Carl
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March 16, 2021 12:49 pm
Reply to  aplumley

The Bagley camp wouldn’t accept it preemptively. Zero chance. They would go into next season believing how great Bagley would be, and testing the open market at that point. If the market dictated his value at that point, fine. But they’re not going to take less now.

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 1:28 pm
Reply to  Carl

That’s the WCS approach. Probably work out about the same.

ArcoThunder
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March 16, 2021 10:38 pm
Reply to  aplumley

Can you imagine if you hired an agent to help you get a bigger contract and the result was you losing out on 15 million dollars? Surprised we haven’t heard a report with the headline “WCS agent found dead in apartment. cause of death – stabbed 15 million times.”

Amonk81
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March 16, 2021 1:18 pm
Reply to  oshima9

Exactly. Not close. Bags has shown nothing to make one think he’s going to be great. Steph showed elite shooting and ball handling.

The idea that Bagely is part of a future-building-is ridiculous and I hope beyond hope Sac isn’t thinking this way.

Who the hell needs a full season, or more time to evaluate Bags? A bad defender/d rebounder/post player in a modern game. Move the fuck on. This is how and why the Kings remain terrible.

MidtownMike
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March 16, 2021 9:52 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Absolutely if they can get him for a 4/44 mil type deal they should.

He has proven to be at worse a bench big that can score.

You touched on the issue, I doubt team Bagley would go for that.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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March 16, 2021 1:28 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

My thoughts as well. I’m not sure he would go for Curry type deal, since it was nearly a decade ago, but maybe something like 4/50M gets it done?

My thoughts are, even he even moderately improves in two years, to say John Collins levels who is 2 years older than him, he’d be right on par with him, only cheaper. Collins may end up getting $23M+ per year, so if Bagley could be had for $10M cheaper per year, that would be a steal.

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:11 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

That just seems like a pretty big overpay for somebody who isn’t much of a threat offensively, a pure liability on defense, and has major durability issues.

OmriOhMy
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March 16, 2021 10:02 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I’ve been (perhaps wishfully) thinking of this comparison since Bagley’s first injury… It’s the one scenario that I could see the kings not regretting drafting Luka! Lol.

The fact is, the Kings’ only real shot at contention is to win some risky bets. Locking up bagley at a discounted rate definitely qualifies. Could his injuries snowball and reduce his value even further? Sure, although they each seem to be isolated incidents which is encouraging on that front.

It’s not that I’m happy each new time Bagley gets dinged up and drives his stock down. But it’s not hard to think in these terms. Especially as a King’s fan rooting for ping pong balls each year, it’s a pretty familiar mental muscle to use….

Carl
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March 16, 2021 12:51 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Maybe the better question is, does Team Bagley think he is not worth a max extension and agree to a discounted deal?

Absolutely zero chance of a discounted deal this offseason.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 2:37 pm
Reply to  Carl

The Kings already exercised their option for next season, so there’s a zero chance of any deal in the offseason.

I’m content to let him test the market as an RFA next summer. Impossible to know what his stock will be like in a year, but it’s hard to envision another team throwing gargantuan money at him. There will be offers, and McNair probably already has a line in the sand for how high he’ll go to match.

kings4ever
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March 17, 2021 3:46 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

A neutral to bad player that does not help you win games is not good value at any price.

Just hypothetically, how much worse off would the Kings be if every minute played by Bagley went to Metu?

Bagley established NOTHING on either end of the floor. Nothing. Personally I think that he does the opponent a favor when he launches a three pointer.

It is not a weapon, it is just a point thirsty player looking to get his. Okay, the form and stroke looks improved, but it is not a reliable shot, it is just more along the lines of “black hole gonna black hole”

His skill is running the floor, changing ends, that is what he has shown he can do better than most. And he’s a quick jumper which enables putbacks.

Most of his points are off the beneficiary of his leg speed and set-ups from Ty and Fox. He is a lousy pick setter , weak hands, fairly terrible instincts.

Yes, he has improved defensively, but his incremental still amount to a bad defensive player.

So if you agree more or less with this profile of said player, why would you want him at any cost.

You could argue he is worth back-up PF money. But that is peanuts, a one position player, non-starter. And your BEST back-ups are capable of playing quality starter minutes in a pinch, due to injury or foul trouble of their teammates.

So when you add up all these variables, Bagley has yet to establish himself as desirable commodity at any price.

But like I said above, these 4-6 weeks can be a blessing in a disguise if he approaches this time with humility and determination.

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 9:27 am

Kings are still on the hook for one more year @ $11M. A wild overpay even if healthy. No one is taking him off our hands. Basically the injury means that we are sitting on $11M of basically dead salary that could be better used anywhere else. No ill will to Bagley, but the poor play, family drama, and injuries have made him a marginal NBA player at best. Worth a minimum contract at this point, not $11M. This may push the rebuild out another year unfortunately, as there was a slight chance someone would take him off our hands if he hadn’t gotten hurt. That timeline may cause the FO to move on from Barnes leaving the cupboard with just Fox, Hali, and Hield through 22-24. Plus whatever draft prospect(s) pan out. Full on rebuild it looks like.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 10:01 am
Reply to  aplumley

If you have a problem with Bagley’s deal, take it up with the league. If you have a problem with his being in Sacramento, take it up with Vlade fucking Divac.

RikSmits
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March 16, 2021 10:11 am
Reply to  andy_sims

So what are we allowed to discuss about him here without taking it up with someone externally, exactly?

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 10:35 am
Reply to  RikSmits

plumley has a problem with Bagley’s deal, which was automatic, and non-negotiable. It cannot, by definition, be an overpay. The insistence that it’s Bagley’s fault that he’s been paid more than his relative value is simply nonsensical.

RikSmits
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March 16, 2021 10:45 am
Reply to  andy_sims

True that the contract value was non-negotiable, but part of the fact that Marvin is not living up to his contract (yet) is because of Marvin’s play. Is it strange to discuss the return on investment of a contract?

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 11:19 am
Reply to  andy_sims

My issue is that the team is on the hook for it. Just stating current state of affairs. The amount of the contract combined with his lack of production and injury history make him an untradeable asset and a contract that the Kings will eat next year. It would be a wild overpay for any team considering taking him in a trade. Nothing can be done about it, I understand it’s a rookie deal for a #2 pick that should have been picked late lottery and that is the fault of the previous FO.
Looking ahead, the Kings have a player getting paid $11M that they will not get $11M of value out of. This is money that could have been used for other more valuable assets if they could have gotten a trade partner, the slim chances of which are now zero. That may push the rebuild out another year, causing the team to recalibrate their timeline and what trades they might entertain. Specifically with regards to Barnes. If the Kings thought 22-23 was the year they wanted to make a splash, then Barnes would have been in that mix. If the Bagley injury precludes them from acquiring assets for that timeline, then Barnes is on the table. That is all.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 12:11 pm
Reply to  aplumley

My issue is that the team is on the hook for it.

As I suggested earlier, your issue is with the team, and not Marvin Bagley. This need to pin all of the organization’s woes on a player who signed the contract that he was offered is simply misguided.

To then go on to say that the money he currently makes, and will make next year is what’s holding the Kings back from greatness? Come on.

And now the revisionist history of going from yesterday’s “Eh, no one wants Bagley in a trade, he’s worthless” to “Because of this injury, his trade value is zero and is keeping the Kings from better days” is giving me whiplash. It also implies that he allowed himself to be injured himself to lower his value, because…?

This is blaming the weatherman for bad weather.

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 1:26 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

This need to pin all of the organization’s woes on a player who signed the contract that he was offered is simply misguided.

Didn’t say this

To then go on to say that the money he currently makes, and will make next year is what’s holding the Kings back from greatness

Didn’t say this. Said it might push the rebuild timeline out a year.

€œEh, no one wants Bagley in a trade, he’s worthless€ to €œBecause of this injury, his trade value is zero and is keeping the Kings from better days€

Didn’t say this either…even though it’s in quotes. I said trading opportunities for this year went from “slim” to “zero”

This is blaming the weatherman for bad weather.

Not in my post. My post was simply about the reality of having a bad contract on the books that might change how the Kings think about a Harrison Barnes trade this year because of an inability to make transactions with a player that is tying up a significant amount of salary and could push the rebuild timeline out a year. It seems you do a lot of reading between the lines that isn’t there.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 2:59 pm
Reply to  aplumley

I wonder how different the answers would be from 24 hours ago and now if I’d asked: Will Marvin Bagley be the difference between the Kings being able to make a favorable deal, or no deal?

Looking ahead, the Kings have a player getting paid $11M that they will not get $11M of value out of. This is money that could have been used for other more valuable assets if they could have gotten a trade partner, the slim chances of which are now zero.

And if frogs had wings, they wouldn’t bump their asses when they hopped. The deal was made, and there’s no point in suggesting that something useful would have happened if MB’s salary had been spent differently. VD made him the second pick, and Marvin signed the deal or he wasn’t going to play basketball in the NBA. It’s a sunk cost, even with the option years, because no one is cutting a #2 pick unless he gets caught with a dead girl, or a live boy.

Or is Meyers Leonard.

Back in the day, it was said of Chris Webber that he got too much credit for wins, and too much blame for the losses, which was probably true. Assigning any blame to Bagley about his contract is just so entirely misdirected. If he had broken his hand riding an ATV, I’d have burned him in effigy. I’m not going to shit on a player who got injured trying to win an NBA game, just because it’s happened before.

If Walton had played Bjelica instead of Bagley, everyone would be up in arms that he was getting $11 million to sit on the bench. The man was competing when he was injured. He was hurt on the job. So I’m left to ask, aside from “be much better,” what was it that you’d have liked Bagley to have done to earn his salary?

Bagley was chosen by an unqualified and incompetent general manager. If you’re going to insist that his contract has caused a cascade of problems for the organization, take it up with the guy who made it possible.

aplumley
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March 16, 2021 5:36 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Never blamed Bagley for anything and I don’t even know how you’re reading that into my post on this thread. I even said “No ill will to Bagley”. I thought he was overvalued when he was drafted as I had him as a late lottery pick. He has lived up to those expectations. His defense has always been terrible. He gives effort though and seems like a good guy so there’s nothing to be angry about. I mean team Bagley seems like a bunch of malcontents, but MBIII himself hasn’t done anything to warrant any sort of anger or blame. You’re right that it’s not his fault that he was overvalued. It’s VD.

My ONLY point was that the injury diminishes whatever trade value he had coming into the trade deadline. And he had some. I saw posts outside of kings Herald that were suggesting significant return for Bagley and there were rumors that he was on the block. The injury presumably ends all of that and in doing so will cause the front office to evaluate other trades differently.

Carl
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March 16, 2021 12:53 pm
Reply to  aplumley

Don’t agree that Bagley is untradeable. Every team in the league would give you a second rounder for a flyer on Bagley. That’s probably not enough, but he’s not untradeable.

ArcoThunder
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March 16, 2021 10:56 pm
Reply to  Carl

I dont think he is un tradable either. No team looking to make a playoff push was trying to trade for bagley. Bad teams are looking at bagley as a potential piece to make them better next year. Anyone interested is still interested and just knows they don’t get to see his fit until 2022 when they’ve added new rookies and free agents.

HongKongKingsFan
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March 16, 2021 9:47 am

Every team has some “Bad contract”…and we got Hield, and Bagley as the “bad contract” for this team, if we still able to move Hield for some future assets, then it would just left Bagley as the only bad contract on this team…

All around the league, no team will give Bagley any big contract….and keeping him with the team until his rookies contract end would be the most possible outcome……

keith_kar
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March 16, 2021 6:47 pm

You can throw Barnes in as a bad contract, and a terrible signing, but we can chalk that up to the previous incompetent regime.

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:19 pm
Reply to  keith_kar

I’d say so far it’s been a meh contract in terms of his production vs pay.

However, you could make the case that it’s bad in the sense that it’s a luxury the Kings have no business paying for because they’re one of the worst teams in the league, regardless of who is playing the wing. Let alone paying a guy at his career peak 22M to do so.

RORDOG
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March 16, 2021 9:55 am

I continue to believe the only solution at this point is just to cut bait. They don’t have to do it now, but they need to find him a new team prior to next season. I honestly don’t think Bagley is a bust, but a firmly believe he will never reach his potential with the Kings.

Klam
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March 16, 2021 10:14 am
Reply to  RORDOG

Yeah, I think it’s time to just move on. He may end up being a great player, but I really just don’t see it happening with this team.

RikSmits
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March 16, 2021 10:28 am
Reply to  Klam

Agreed with you both. Too much baggage on both sides for this to be a good situation going forward.

I really think it is in the interest of both sides to say goodbye and have a fresh start.

RORDOG
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March 16, 2021 11:27 am
Reply to  RikSmits

The problem really is who would actually want to trade for Bagley at this point? There isn’t really an optimal situation for him to go to. Houston is really the only team that I can think of that could be a good trade partner. If you squint hard enough, a Wood/Bagley frontcourt partnership could work. Plus Houston needs to hit some home runs to make up for their future draft pick situation.

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:24 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

We need to find a team willing to take a chance on a dud of a big drafted #2 and willing to offer up Luc Mbah a Moute.

KangzofLeon
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March 16, 2021 11:39 am
Reply to  Klam

I personally doubt he ever becomes a great player. Young, I know, but I see him becoming a pretty good player at best. I don’t know, anything is possible but I just see his utter lack of defensive instincts as preventing him from reaching his potential, whatever that is

Amonk81
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March 16, 2021 1:24 pm
Reply to  Klam

i do think the odds of Bagley becoming great, or even good-impacting winning -is slim to none.

oshima9
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March 16, 2021 11:15 am
Reply to  RORDOG

I think Bagley made an effort to improve and play within the team before his injury, but it is hard for the Kings to plan their future with him, and I agree that it would be best for all if he was sent somewhere, to a team that has actively traded for him in expectation that he will fulfill a certain role.

Brown.says.Good.or.Bad
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March 17, 2021 12:04 am
Reply to  oshima9

This is good

furious.d
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March 16, 2021 12:46 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

I don’t really know what cutting bait would accomplish. We only have 5 decent NBA players (starters minus Bags and plus Hali), leaving 2/3 of our roster filled by 2nd rounders, G League filler, and scrap heap vets who will be out of the league before we can rebuild. The bench has been devastatingly bad this year.

Obviously anyone who wants to give us a proven, quality young player or lottery pick can have him, but that’s not realistic until he can put together at least one fully healthy season that shows growth. In the mean time I consider him a lower risk lottery ticket than Guy, Jeffries, Metu, Ramsey, etc.

It’s not that he’s an immovable part of the long-term core, it’s that we suck way too badly to dump him until we have 4-5 higher quality young pieces to add to the Hali / Fox future. Maybe we grab one of those guys in the draft this year, but that still leaves a long way to go.

Amonk81
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March 16, 2021 1:22 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Ding ding ding. Yes.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 9:58 am

The bad luck this guy has had is unbelievable. And this isn’t chronic back soreness or some other thing that comes and goes unpredictably, these are injuries sustained while playing. It’s quite easy to suggest that, well, this is who Marvin is. He’s not had the kind of injuries that you see when a player’s body is worn down to the point where he can’t function. Lots of players play for a decade without sustaining a fracture; they’re relatively uncommon, but they happen.

Bagley has basically been struck by lightning multiple times. I don’t think it makes any sense to suggest that there’s something about him that makes him more likely to be struck by lightning. However improbable these injuries have been, there is certainly more than a non-zero chance that they could occur to one player, and so they have.

Conversations about whether or not Bagley is part of Sacramento’s future can certainly be had, but responding to injuries sustained during games with an insistence that they keep happening because of some inherent character flaw?

Marvin is here because of extremely poor decision-making by a guy whose number has been retired by the organization. His progress has obviously been limited by this series of injuries, but he’s been healthy this season, and his improvement is apparent. There are still a number of things that Bagley is still bad at, primarily on the defensive end, and are fair game when discussing his value. I don’t think that the kind of injuries that he’s had are indicative of a larger, irreparable problem.

This is not to compare their value as players at all, but Steph Curry could barely keep himself on the court his first few seasons. Shit happens, and unless you can name a specific course of action that Bagley might have taken to prevent any of these freak injuries, I don’t really see the point in trying to assign blame as part of some larger issue.

RikSmits
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March 16, 2021 10:13 am
Reply to  andy_sims

but responding to injuries sustained during games with an insistence that they keep happening because of some inherent character flaw?

Has that happened here?
I have seen people discuss his injuries, I have seen people discuss perceived character flaws and his family, but I have not seen anyone insist that his injuries happened because of his character.

Last edited 1 year ago by RikSmits
andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 10:16 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Do a search/find for “toxic” or “fragile” in any articles about Bagley’s injury.

RikSmits
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March 16, 2021 10:41 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Don’t see it. “toxic” is in reference to his family, and “fragile”is in reference to his physique/injuries. I don’t see any post were these are connected.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 12:14 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

But why does his family come into it at all? None of what his asshole dad has said has been repeated by III. If your issue is that he hasn’t refuted his father’s bullshit, let me ask, how old were you when you first told your father to fuck off?

RikSmits
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March 16, 2021 12:45 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Uhm, I was 15, but that’s neither here nor there.

Team Bagley is part of the package, and it is not hard to believe that they have at least some influence on how Bagley views his talent, his role on the team and how he’s being treated by the team. The fact that he avoids these issues and does not stamp them out strengthens that suspicion. And it is not strange to be annoyed with how Team Bagley is apparently doing their best to piss off Fox and his dad.

Is that Marvin’s fault? Probably not. Is he doing stuff to defuse it? Not visibly. Can it be one of the reasons for wishing to move on from Marvin? I think it can be.

Is it linking character flaws of Marvin with his injuries? Absolutely not.
So nice try to shift the goalposts but that comment looks more and more like fake news.

Otis
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March 16, 2021 1:20 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I think the family stuff is silly to even bring up. I remember when LaVar Ball was going to bring ruin onto the league, and it turns out his kids are pretty solid team guys.

By all accounts, Marvin has been a hard worker and solid teammate. The other side of this is business, and I have no issue with Team Bagley feeling however they feel – I mean, I’m not sure they have much more disdain for the franchise currently than many of us.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 3:03 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Marvin Bagley III’s father is not his responsibility. If VD failed to perform due diligence about the family, that, as with where MB was selected, is entirely on the unqualified GM’s head.

RORDOG
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March 16, 2021 10:36 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Do you believe that it’s possible that Bagley could just be injury prone similar to how Danilo Gallinari tends to get injured most years?

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 10:38 am
Reply to  RORDOG

I’m not very familiar with Gallinari’s injuries, but my recollection is that they seem to be recurring issues, and a not a series of freak injuries. I may have that completely wrong, but if not, then it’s apples and oranges.

RORDOG
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March 16, 2021 10:55 am
Reply to  andy_sims

He’s had ankle problems in both ankles. He tore his ACL. He’s broken his hand multiple times. He’s been out with a sore wrist, a partially torn glute, a sore foot, etc. etc. I think the right ankle seems to be a consistent issue, but his injury history is pretty diverse.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 12:15 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Three cheers for diversity.

Carl
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March 16, 2021 12:57 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Sprained eyelash, ingrown hair, poked by a cactus, toejam infection…

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:30 pm
Reply to  Carl

Burned his neck ironing a shirt, sliced open his tongue while shaving, dislocated hip loading the dishwasher.

Amonk81
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March 16, 2021 1:29 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Bagely gets hurt every year. Just like Anthony Davis. That’s the definition of injury prone. I, amd many, predicted he’d get injured again because……he’s injury prone.

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:33 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

That’s how I see it. Whether it’s the same torn ACL over and over again, or 27 different body parts, if you find yourself frequently injured, you’re injury prone. I don’t think it’s out of bounds to say that Marvin is injury prone, at this point.

furious.d
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March 16, 2021 12:58 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Gallo has had a 12 year career and been to the playoffs 4 times (zero trips for the Kings in that same span). Would I want Gallo to be my franchise centerpiece? No. Same for Bagley.

But I’d be happy to have a 22 year old Gallo competing to play 4th fiddle to Fox, Cade, and Hali if the roster spot is otherwise going to be filled by Daquan Jeffries.

RORDOG
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March 16, 2021 1:07 pm
Reply to  furious.d

I’m not comparing their talent though. I asked Andy if he believes that it’s possible that some players are more likely to sustain seemingly random injuries than others, and used Gallo as an example.

Amonk81
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March 16, 2021 1:30 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

I do believe some athletes, due to their body makeup, get injured more than others. You see it in all sports.

furious.d
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March 16, 2021 2:20 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

And my response isn’t to compare their talents either, but to point out that, random or not, injury issues aren’t a reason by themselves to cut bait on a player. Choose your own perspective on where Gallo belongs on the continuum from injury prone to unlucky, but either way he was a better asset over the course of a career than our iron man Jason Thompson. The same may be true of Bagley when compared to our other options to fill the roster spot.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 3:11 pm
Reply to  furious.d

Solid point about Thompson. Durable and steady, but Gallo has had the better career.

RORDOG
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March 16, 2021 3:44 pm
Reply to  furious.d

I mean yeah, I don’t disagree. I think his injuries, contract situation, awkward fit, on court production and off court drama with his family all play a part in why I think it’s time to move on.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 3:10 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

I mean, it stands to reason that one person is going to be more or less injury-prone than the next.

I don’t know why it’s only now just occurred to me how much love the constantly-injured Harry Giles got/gets, as opposed to Bagley, who has outperformed Giles in nearly every aspect as an NBA player. But Giles was selected twentieth, not second.

It’s simply unfair to assign blame to a player for where he was drafted. I get having higher expectations, for a two than a twenty, but getting injured playing games that count doesn’t seem like it deserves the kind of vitriol that’s been generated. Or the schaudenfreude.

BeTheBall
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March 16, 2021 10:39 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

For what it’s worth, the “constantly injured” Giles has played more games than Bagley in the same amount of seasons.

That said, I don’t get the love for Giles either (outside of his enthusiasm). Much like Marvin, every once in a while he does something that is fun to see, but is mostly a non-factor.

kings4ever
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March 17, 2021 3:50 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

A player (person) makes their own luck. Part of the reason for his string of injuries in my opinion is he doesn’t train hard enough. You can see it in his lack of muscle definition.
I would contend that playing at a strength disadvantage makes you more susceptible to injury.

AmateurNerd
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March 16, 2021 10:04 am

You have to feel horrible for Bagley. He’s trying, he’s slowly getting better, and it’s not his fault… but he’s a walking injury report. It’s the way he is built. You can see it in his movements on the court. He doesn’t change direction easily, stumbles a lot, reaches a lot, bends at the waist a lot. Top-heavy. He moves like someone who’s going to get hurt.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 10:17 am
Reply to  AmateurNerd

My apologies, but I can’t seem to understand in what way Bagley is “top-heavy.” I never considered that he was heavy in any sense of the word. And how would this top-heaviness make him more prone to a hand injury?

AmateurNerd
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March 16, 2021 11:29 am
Reply to  andy_sims

By top-heavy, I meant to say he seems to have a high center of gravity when he moves on the court. It isn’t a remark on his physical condition/weight/appearance, but on his movement. When I watch Bagley, it often seems to me that he bends at the waist and reaches/lunges with his arms and upper body before shuffling/moving his feet. As a result, he can get off-balance and seem on the verge of falling. DeMarcus Cousins did the same thing, and I lost count of how many times I saw DMC stumble, trip, and slide across the paint when he played in Sac. Shockingly, he eventually suffered multiple serious injuries. Again, this is all just my own personal eye test. As for Bagley’s hand injury–my original comment was about Bagley’s overall style of movement and how it makes him injury-prone. Because he often reaches and swipes with his hands, perhaps he is more prone to hand and arm injuries. Look, I’m obviously not a medical expert, and whatever I say on this issue should be taken with a tanker-truck’s worth of salt, but that said, there’s some smoke here, at least in my eyes.

andy_sims
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March 16, 2021 12:26 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

I appreciate the clarification. I can’t make a cogent argument against it because of my ignorance as to the nature of body mechanics.

I would say, though, Cousins was built like an oak tree, and didn’t seem to me to be the kind of player who gets knocked over that often. He went after balls on the floor and took a lot of charges, but he didn’t hit the ground against his will that frequently.

Truly a shame about his injuries, he was incredible to watch, and damned near unstoppable at times. I don’t think that his injuries were necessarily related to his build, as players of all body types also have hamstring & Achilles issues, but will again qualify that by stating my ignorance in that regard.

HongKongKingsFan
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March 16, 2021 10:09 am

If we are going to trade BJelly, and maybe Whiteside before the trade deadline, and we would be extremely short-handed on our BIGs, leaving us only Holmes, Parker and Metu (still injured) as the only BIGs………..

If we are then going to sign some BIGs from G-League, hope we can find some GEMs…..

Falconsfury
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March 16, 2021 10:19 am

Bagley for cash considerations

vladefather
March 16, 2021 10:51 am

Offensively Bagley has improved each month that he’s been on the floor. Even though his defense is pretty terrible, I think you can say it has improved as well. Hopefully, the Kings organization utilize this downtime with Marvin to work on his defensive reads. If that happens, he will be a very serviceable player. Here’s to hoping that he recovers quickly and continues to grow.

keith_kar
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March 16, 2021 7:00 pm
Reply to  vladefather

There’s no doubt that Bagley’s trajectory of improvement is moving upward. I would like to see Bags work on his conditioning this off season, and then evaluate the finished product end of next season. Take a look at Fox’s broad shoulders this season. Let’s give Marv a year in the gym and see what happens.

TheGrantNapear
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March 16, 2021 11:20 am
Reply to  Peja

Blow it up

RORDOG
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March 16, 2021 11:33 am
Reply to  Peja

I agree with Tjarks on a lot of this, but I wonder if there’s a way to replicate the small ball lineup while still trading Barnes. If the Kings were to bring in an OPJ or Taurean Prince, then they could step into the Barnes role pretty easily.

Peja
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March 16, 2021 12:54 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

I was thinking this same thing. The more rumors continue to swirl and it continues to sound like Monte wants a strong offer if Barnes is moved.

Maximus
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March 16, 2021 1:34 pm