It seems as if each day we get a new round of reports suggesting Harrison Barnes may or may not get traded by the NBA's March 25th Trade Deadline. Today's reports say...*spins giant wheel*...no!
While he says it could change at any moment, Amick doesn’t think Harrison Barnes will be traded to Boston. https://t.co/g43VZy4jd0
— Brett Huff (@bretthuff22) March 16, 2021
Amick isn't the only one suggesting the Kings could keep Barnes. ESPN's Tim Bontemps quoted anonymous executives and scouts regarding the likelihood of a Barnes trade.
"If I had to guess on Barnes, I would say [he doesn't get traded]," said an East scout.
...
"My sense is they'll keep him," said a West executive. "But if someone throws a [Robert Covington]-style package at them (meaning multiple first-round picks), you have to think about it."
Meanwhile, Sports Illustrated's Chris Mannix suggested that the Celtics are likely to continue chasing Barnes right up to the deadline:
The Celtics have been focused on Kings forward Harrison Barnes in recent weeks, with Detroit sending signals that it has no interest in trading rising forwardand GM Troy Weaver free agent signingJerami Grant. Boston won't force a deal, with team officials seeing value in holding on to the exception into free agency. But expect the Celtics to pursue Barnes right up until the deadline.
There's an awful lot of smoke around Harrison Barnes. How much is misdirection and how much of it is real is anybody's guess, but two things seem quite clear:
- The Celtics want Harrison Barnes
- The Kings won't trade Barnes for a cheap return
The deadline is 9 days away. Stay tuned.
Ainge’s stingy arse is welcome to throw us two first round picks and a young player if he really wants Barnes.
A poopoo platter of Nesmith and just one first won’t cut it.
I said before, I think the market is hot for Barnes and less so for Buddy. Monte can take his time up until the deadline when teams will get more desperate.
first round picks will be late first round picks so they really arent worth much.
I’d take Nesmith and 2 first round picks
or Nesmith, Williams, and 1 first round pick
picks in that range can help sweeten the deal on subsequent trades though. Plus the team would be in a much better position to do deals if they could free up ~$20 million in cap space. Personally, I think the sweet spot is probably something like one of Nesmith/R Williams/Pritchard, plus one of G Williams/Langford/Edwards, and Boston’s 2021 FRP.
Hard pass on Edwards, but I agree with everything else
You make a good point about the first round picks but have you really seen Nesmith play or just repeating the name like everyone else. I watch a lot of basketball and I can’t tell you a thing about Nesmith other than he can’t seem to earn any minutes with the Celtics.
He can shoot…I’ve only seen him play in one game this year and he went 3-5 all from 3 and he grabbed a few boards in like 15mins of play.
Is Boston willing to forgo future for a chance at top 4 in East? Doubtful but Kings need young guy ( Nesmith- who can’t get minutes, Pritchard who does get minutes or Williams who is back up to Holmes but not Langford or Edwards ) and 1-2 first round picks. Picks are around 20- only luck gets value there- luck and good scouting. One young guy + 2 picks or two young guys + one pick. Trading above average SF for below average young guys and hope.
Wit this trade, Kings head to bottom. Is that the point?
the cap space is great if you can use it- like let’s sign the Greek !! nope but if used for journeymen worse than Barnes, what is the point. ?
Boston will lose interest because Kings simply have to get value. That would leave them with 2 keepers and one barely above average 3 point guy.
In the meantime, the Kings are not desperate.
They are just numb, resigned and broke.
Two years ago, Barnes was traded for an expiring and a mid-first round player with a low ceiling. If you can get that much in a deal, you take it.
Barnes is worth more now than he was two years ago. He’s actually on a favorable contract now which is decreasing in value. He’s a plug and play, malleable player. He’s coveted.
he’s only 28.
Covington went for two firsts, I think they are comparable players.
The Covington trade is looking like a pretty large mistake, in hindsight. And his contract was significantly smaller than Barnes’. That might be a cautionary tale for other GMs.
Yup. Anything above that deal with Dallas is interest earned. Also, again, we can’t underestimate the value of the large TPE that would be created if Barnes is moved for a pick and player like Nesmith. That in itself is another asset.
I see gets: A first round pick, a prospect, and a very large TPE. All that for trading away the ghost of ZBo and Justin Jackson. It’s a win.
If Boston is content to get bounced in the first round, so be it. They can get up-close and personal with him Friday night at the Garden.
I guess its possible that Barnes and Buddy are still on the roster after the deadline, but man that really would suck. This seems like the perfect time to be the team that’s most aggressive sellers at the deadline.
Really, it is possible? No it is all but guaranteed. There is no consensus of value to be had when you are dealing with a swindler like Ainge, who thinks everyone on his roster is destined for the HOF.
And it is fans who have been engaged in delusional fantasyland for months with hypothetical trades with NO chance of occuring involving HB and Buddy when the real candidate to be moved before last night was Bagley, and it may still happen.
And who is Aaron Nesmith, why is he so coveted? Nesmith may or may not be better than DaQuan Jefferies. Unless you were touting him before the draft and project him in the same draft tier as Haliburton, let’s not pretend like he is so covetous now.
Especially when we could easily land future All-Star Jonathon Kuminga in next few months making a guy like Nesmith spoiled milk!
Do you want to know what would really suck? (1) Giving in to a swindler like Ainge for a poo poo platter of fringe rotational players for HB or (2) trading Buddy at the nadir of his trade value.
It is fans like you who justify “blowing it up” because you are emotionally exhausted and exasperated with the perpetual losing. But you do not think or act prudently when your decisions are emotionally rooted. I am an emotional fan, highly emotional at times, but I can always step back and see the forest for the trees.
Buddy is having a terrible year. He’s better than this. He’s potentially a keeper for a high performing team. Barnes is too. So what would suck is allowing your clouded judgement to act in haste and lead to a regrettable decision.
By contrast, I have little to NO allegiance to Marvin. There’s the guy you likely want to move on from, that is simple as the nose on your face, and you seem not to see that, thank goodness you are not our GM, you would probably give away the best wing we’ve add in a decade (Barnes) for the next Justin Jackson.
“He’s potentially a keeper for a high performing team. Barnes is too.”
But they just don’t help the winning HERE right?!?! Right?
Exactly.
It’s weird how that always happens. But only Ainge overvalues his own talent, apparently.
I feel like there’s enough heat on Ainge at this point to get him to negotiate in good faith. Fans want Barnes. The team is under performing due to a lack of depth, based in part on Ainge’s draft strategy the last few years. It seems like Ainge’s reputation has taken a hit based on the constant rumors that he almost made various impact trades. If I’m McNair, I smell blood in the water. Maybe Ainge just is who he is, but this seems like the perfect time to test that theory.
I think it’s hilarious that we think Ainge is going to continuously pass on acquiring real high end talent, then give up the goods for an average small forward with long term dollars attached.
If this happens, it would tell me Ainge is actually on the hot seat from above, not necessarily that he’s given in to fan pressure.
The fans pressure has more of an impact on the people above Ainge IMO. And, again, all I’m saying is that the environment might be ripe for him to negotiate in good faith. That just means being okay with a trade that makes realistically sense for both sides.
Perhaps. But a “realistic” trade seems like it would send a decent amount of salary back. Unless there are GMs around that think this Barnes is significantly better than career Barnes.
TT is the only player that they could include as trade ballast, and he only owed $9 million past this season. That shouldn’t prevent them from getting a deal done. He’s still relatively productive, and could conceivably be flipped to a playoff team at some point over the next year.
That being the case, I suppose this would either need to be a three-teamer, or the quality of the draft assets/young talent we get back in a Barnes deal would be mitigated.
If Ainge were to want the Kings to eat TT’s deal to go along with a pick and Nesmith for Barnes, I’d hope Monte at least asks for more.
It would also mean that the Kings would need to cut someone. Add Cory Joseph in for Prichard then cut Justin James, and you have a deal.
Personally, I don’t see that as “eating” a deal, since it’s less than half of Barnes’ salary next season, and you have a third year of Barnes after that.
I think we’d be lucky to only take that much back and still get youth/draft assets in return.
I know they can absorb these dollars in the TPE, but they still affect Boston’s cap – and looking at their cap situation for the next two seasons, adding a net of $11 million for a marginal upgrade feels improbable to me.
I think it is less than $11M. They give up $15.4M in those deals to get Barnes’ guaranteed $20M next year and Joseph unguaranteed…which is what, $2M?
I see it as basically the Celtics are paying an additional $7M for Barnes next year and a late first round pick.
I was really speaking to your first paragraph, but that deal would seem more in the realm of possibility to me (from a $ standpoint, I have my doubts he’d include Pritchard in that type of deal).
I doubt he includes Prichard as well, but that’s the kind of dealing I’d hope McNair is doing if Ainge wants to dump off TT in a Barnes deal.
So are you thinking Ainge is going to just absorb all of Barnes’ contract in his TPE, AND give us assets back?
I guess I’m misunderstanding the word “dump” in relation to Thompson’s deal – it seems like that’s the bare minimum inclusion in a Barnes deal, not something additional Ainge is trying to pawn off.
Because he is not needed to make the deal work. Ainge would only be including him to “dump” his deal on the Kings.
IMO, acquiring Barnes is worth a 1st, a prospect, and a hit to your cap if you are trying to go deep into the playoffs.
Including TT in the deal would just be a favor to Ainge as he’d clearly be winning the trade in terms of added talet and wins without him.
Yeah, I completely disagree with you. That wouldn’t be a favor to Ainge, it would be a starting point for discussions IMO.
Just because a guy isn’t needed to technically make a deal work doesn’t mean the deal is fair, from a value standpoint.
Either you all are overvaluing Barnes, or I’m undervaluing him. Be interesting to see how it ends up.
Like much of the world, HB lives in the grey area between over- and under-valued.
I feel like we have enough corroborating evidence to safely assume Barnes is Ainge’s #1 realistic trade target at this point.
Sure, but we are the one making assumptions on how he’s willing to go about it. If we think he’s going to throw asset valuation and salary cap ramifications out the window, that’s fine I suppose – I’ll agree to disagree for now.
If that does occur, I’ll certainly praise McNair thoroughly for making it happen.
who is saying to throw asset valuation and salary cap ramifications out the window? As I understand it, the goal of using the TPE is to either get a Beal/Grant/Vuc type player, or use it on a player that fills a position of need on a big, non-expiring contact.
Those are two hugely different things, IMO. Especially in relation to Harrison Barnes. But maybe this simply boils down to a difference of opinion on his value.
I’d prefer a trade with Miami that nets Precious Achiewa and a pick (wouldn’t be this year’s pick).
But that might be just because I can’t stand Boston or Ainge.
his contract allows them to extend the life of the TPE into next season. His value is related, obviously, but the point is that they get another bit of the apple for those types of players after the TPE expires.
This is my whole thing with Barnes. Everyone has decided he’s worth way more (long-term?) now, and he just isn’t. If they don’t move him now, they will at best get equal value later, and likely will get less. And he’s not doing anything to meaningfully move the long-term win total on this team. Sell high.
In my mind, the “blow it up” scenario actually involves trading Barnes/Bagley and keeping Buddy. If I was GM, then my plan would be to go into next season with Fox/Haliburton/Top 5 pick/Holmes as the 4 for sure starters and Buddy as the super sixth man. I call it the “allowing my clouded judgement to act in haste and lead to a regrettable decision” plan.
I dont see how we get a top 5 without luck. those bottom teams are tanking like ive never seen before. Its beautiful!
You asked the right question to this site. Who is Nesmith and why is he so coveted. It’s kind of like when one of the high volume posters saying we need Dedmon and then everyone following like sheep. He’s tall and he could shoot a little but most new nothing about him. If they had, they might have seen the myriad of holes in his game and there was several years of play to see his warts. But one guy kept pushing this guy at the same time saying how big of mistake it would be to sign Levine. When you start hearing a name over and over and you haven’t seen much of that player, it’s a good chance those throwing around his name don’t really know any more than you.
I watch a lot of Boston game’s especially this year because I like to follow Pritchard having had daughtered who graduated from Oregon. I can’t tell you a thing about Nesmith but apparently there are some who have privilege to the Celtic workouts and practices. It’s late in the 4th, the Celtics have gone 10 deep on the roster tonight and Nesmith still has yet to remove his warmups. Beware!
Nesmith is a baller. You’re trippin. He just needs the same opportunity Bagley “had” which is playing time. This kid can go off for 30 or more any night. He’s Devin Booker-ish.
Being an aggressive seller is an excellent strategy if you enjoy being fleeced. Taking and making phone calls about possible deals without being desperate is how you help ensure good return. McNair has no incentive to hang on to either Barnes or Hield, but even less incentive to give them away for something that won’t help the team going forward.
Boston hasn’t been to the finals or won a championship in over a decade. Ainge is the one who’s seat is getting warm, not McNair’s.
I’m pretty skeptical that deals for any of the Kings players will be better in the offseason.
I think if Barnes continues a solid campaign the two more years of declining pay will be of more value than 2.5 years, but it’s marginal. Just depends on the offers that get made to get him. I trust McNair to execute a vision. Hasn’t burned me yet.
do I really need to add a clause to my comment that the plan should not include getting fleeced? I already said in a separate comment what I felt was a fair trade for Barnes. I also said in a separate comment that I don’t think trading Barnes and Buddy makes a lot of sense based on Buddy’s current value.
Buddy is an underwater asset and Barnes is probably close to it. Ditching those deals to take shorter term money back would help the team going forward, IMO.
I can’t believe you actually think Barnes is near an underwater asset…seems so absurd haha
This is a “career year” for Barnes, and he currently ranks…25th in the league in RPM among small forwards (between Kent Bazemore and Andrew Wiggins).
This career year has also resulted in…not much for the Kings in the win/loss column.
No doubt, he’s played solid basketball, and if he were making 12 to 14 million per year, I’d be more inclined to see him as a guy who could bring back some tangible assets.
If I were an opposing GM, I’d be concerned that this season is fool’s gold, and that would be an expensive mistake to make.
He has the 34th highest WAR in the NBA according to fivethirtyeigth’s RAPTOR stat. We can all find a stat that fits our respective narrative. Realistically, he’s probably a top 75ish player in terms of impact this season. Not a gamechanger, but good enough to be the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.
I’ll remember this statement down the road:
🙂
Adding, he was 169th in the NBA in RAPTOR last season, 162nd the season prior, 190th in 17-18, and so on.
So we get back to something you and I have discussed before (at least, I think it was you and I) – how much weight would you, as a GM, put on Barnes’ 1,200 minutes this season versus the 19,000 or so that came before it?
Again, I’d be worried about fool’s gold, and expensive fool’s gold, at that.
I agree with you about the concern rival GMs would have about fool’s gold, but you have to balance the diminished value created by that risk against the increased value created by his declining contract over time (not just AAV, but years remaining). As you say, $60m is an expensive mistake if his play regresses to mean, but 1 year / $18m is a relatively cheap risk as a last piece for a contender.
I think Barnes is at a stage in his career in which it’s important to understand who he is as a player, and be willing to accept a role that’s different than when he first came into the league. I think he realizes that, and has made the required tweaks to his game. He’s become a more willing passer, and uses his strength/size to get to the rim more often. I don’t know why that can’t be sustainable over the next two seasons.
It is likely sustainable. Barnes has a diverse offensive skill set that he can do every thing on offense. But the key is probably his usage rate and shot selection.
He drastically reduces the long mid range shots (the superstars’ shots) and increases the 3s and the short mid range shots (the role players shots).
We can all see it. The guy is excellent in the post and excellent spot up shooters. Once in a while, he can also handle the ball or be a roll man in p&r situations.
Paolo Uggetti from the Ringer just did an interview with Barnes. He goes discusses why he believes he’s been able to improve as a scorer/distributor:
The whole article is interesting though. It’s definitely worth a read.
Bagley at 225th of 250, and Joseph at 237th.
I see no lies
The team is going nowhere with this set of players. McNair’s whole job is to make the team better. If he can’t make that happen by moving some of the existing players, that’s not a good look, in my opinion. Sure, you can’t act desperate, but the fact is this team desperately needs changes.
He should trade Barnes and Hield for New Coke.
Change is always great!
You missed the ‘make the team better’ part. If McNair can’t consummate a deal, that’s bad.
I fail to see how moving Barnes for a mid 1st and a TPE does much in the way of making the team better.
But, maybe McNair could make that work.
The RODOG dream is a team that’s like 12 deep with quality rotation players built around the RORCORE (Fox/Haliburton/Holmes/2021 FRP). That’s hard to do with Barnes and Buddy on the books plus Fox’s extension once that kicks in. Trading Barnes into space or an exception helps get them closer to the dream.
I think you’ve misspelled your own name.
i got too excited once I coined the term RORCORE.
Better than feeding your dog coke and then expecting him to be the next Bullet.
It’s solid, but have you considered RORSHOCK?
I won’t speak for anyone else, but I liked New Coke.
Barnes needs to play better than the last few games going into the deadline
Do the Kings just want to dump Barnes, a bone fide NBA starter who can play two positions and is in his prime and will be for a few more years? Dumping DeMarcus Cousins kind of paid off as, over the last three years, Buddy Hield has been the better player (i.e. is actually playing), not to mention a #1 pick (that lead to acquiring Barnes) and the Kings keeping their own #1, which became DeAaron Fox. Harrison Barnes situation is totally different,. It’s getting rid of a good player for some “assets” that, best case scenario, end up being worth as much as the asset the team gave up. It will be sad if the Kings dump Harrison Barnes.
Issue is that while he’s in his prime the team might be picking in the lottery
see the dichotomy?
And keeping both Buddy and Barnes makes if pretty damn difficult to bring Holmes back, especially when you take into consideration another lottery pick’s salary. Vlade painted the cap sheet into a corner a bit.
In his defense, he thought he was working a soduku puzzle.
THIS! This right here covers why I want to get rid of Buddy. Open up cap room for a Holmes resigning. I could care less whether HB goes or stays. Pros and cons to trading him now, or trading later (offseason).
Player’s family members fighting with each other. Veteran player is checked out. Beat writer is done and doesn’t want to hear it. AM radio board op fights with the zombie-blog-owner turned make-believe-media-member. Carmichael Dave looking for an exorcist and sage to burn. Damien and KC fighting today over whether it’s the players or the coach. Shadow GM being influenced by dysfunctional ownership.
We have officially become the Sixers fanbase prior to Hinkie.
Executives one week telling the media that the kings are working on something significant; Sam reporting the kings are leaning towards selling after the 9 game losing streak; and now we keep hearing that Barnes might be kept from executives.
Here are my questions that I would love answers to.
1) Are the Kings using the media to create a bidding war for Barnes?
2) If Barnes is kept, what does significant mean?
3) Just like how Monte has given little information to fans and media, is he also really good at keeping info away from other executives?
The trade deadline anxiety is building up. When Vlade was around, I knew draft prospects from white boards and leaked information was accurate. I have more questions than answers now.
It doesn’t mean anything necessarily. Most people agree that if a good deal comes for Barnes we should take take it (mileage will vary on what “good means”).
But if he doesn’t get a good offer should be trade him? Unfortunately as fans we don’t know what the actual offers received were so we can’t draw conclusions from things that didn’t happen.
So does Danny Ainge. Transparency ain’t always the way to go.
I think the answer is we should all take up smoking cigarettes, preferably Balkan imports.
My recollection was that the source was unnamed, and there was no mention of the source being a Kings executive, at least in the excerpt posted here. I also recall that I said that Anderson seemed to have nothing of value, informationally, and that he was generating clicks.
The fact that nothing significant has happened in two weeks isn’t a definite indicator that the source knew squat, but the odds of a “significant” deal having been in place for 10+ days without executing it seems unlikely.
I love that McNair isn’t even offering hints. Half of a GM’s job is keeping his fool mouth shut when it needs to be.
Good.
Ainge’s latest offer is a late first, Nesmith, and these guys! A thumbs up to whoever can name the group!!
The musical version of The Kings Herald!
Yes, just another day as a Kings fan…
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/16/22334148/sacramento-kings-marvin-bagley-injury-tyrese-haliburton-monte-mcnair
This link was posted in the Marvin Bagley’s injury thread by Peja. Posted it here because I think it is more suited for discussion.
It’s a great read/watch. Tjarks has been eerily prescient with regard to Haliburton.
Barnes is one of the most malleable players in the league, and a pro’s pro on and off the court. His contract is not untenable, and the Kings have absolutely no one else that can play where and how he plays on the floor. In these respects, I have no issue with him playing out his contract here, as he is a guy that will adjust his game as Fox and Haliburton mature and the ’21 draft pick establishes himself. That said…
The Kings are going nowhere this year or next year. It would be shocking and against the odds for the Kings to pull a player out of the ’21 draft that exceeds that of a 5-6 WAR player. The payroll and geography limits a big free agency move. The assets are not there to move up exponentially via a trade. For all of these reasons, it might be a good idea for the Kings to strike while the iron is hot as it pertains to Barnes. Fill up on picks and prospects, and target 22-23 for upward trajectory and playoff relevance, with 21-22 being about what this year should be about: player development and asset acquisition.
I won’t be mad if Barnes is not traded, but I think retaining him really narrows the needle that the Kings will need to thread moving forward on their (hopeful) path out of the bottom half of the league.
But you know nothing, Rob.
Truer words have never been written.
Barnes’ value will never be higher so I don’t blame Monte for holding out for a good deal, but this team is dead in the water and needs to tank hard. So farewell, Harrison.