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The Sacramento Kings should call the Indiana Pacers about Myles Turner

The Pacers big man would be a perfect front-court partner for Marvin Bagley.

In a postmortem of the Boston Celtics season on Sunday afternoon, Jared Weiss of The Athletic dropped a bit of a bombshell regarding two of the Indiana Pacers core players.

"Indiana is still home for the Haywards, and with Victor Oladipo looking to move on this offseason, according to sources, and Myles Turner possibly in the same boat, there could be an opportunity for Ainge to move Hayward and the abundance of draft picks in his war chest in a mutually agreeable way."

That information was framed in the context of a possible Celtics trade, but the news of both Oladipo and Turner possibly wanting out of Indiana echoed throughout the league, and the Kings should certainly be one of the teams calling the Pacers about the veracity of that report.

While Victor Oladipo is the much better and more exciting player between the two contributors, he would also represent a poor investment for a team in Sacramento’s position. With only one year remaining on his deal, Oladipo would be able to walk away into unrestricted free agency after the 2020-2021 campaign, and with the significant assets that would likely be required to obtain his services, a one-year rental wouldn’t be of any help to the Kings long-term roster building. However, a much more realistic option was thrown alongside Oladipo’s bigger name: Myles Turner. If the Pacers big man also wants out of Indiana, his skill set, age, and two-way impact would pair perfectly with Sacramento’s needs and timeline.

Despite being just 24 years of age, Turner has been in the league for a half-decade, and he’s been productive in every one of those seasons. This past year, he averaged 12.1 points, 6.6 rebounds, and 2.1 rejections per game, but those low, raw rebounding numbers aren’t necessarily indicative of Tuner’s abilities, as he has been constantly paired with fellow center Domantas Sabonis in Indiana. When the two shared the court this season, Turner averaged just 7.2 rebounds per 36 minutes; however, those numbers jumped to 9.7 per-36 when he was the lone center on the hardwood. He may not be the second-coming of Wilt Chamberlain, but Turner can hold his own on the defensive glass. Rebounding also isn’t the aspect of Turner’s game that makes him such an incredibly attractive target for Sacramento; it’s his ability to supplement and shield two of Marvin Bagley’s major on-court weaknesses.

Even though he showed some signs of life as a weakside shot-blocker in his rookie year, Marvin Bagley has yet to show the instincts or the desire to anchor the paint for the Kings, and that’s okay. His bread and butter trend more towards rebounding and isolation scoring. Myles Turner, on the other hand, seems to take great pride in that sort of a role for his team. Over the last four years, he’s placed in the top-5 in rejections, including leading the NBA during the 2018-2019 campaign with an average of 2.7 blocks per game. Those aren’t empty numbers indicative of a selfish, stat-chasing center either. Turner placed in the 90th percentile among centers when defending shots within six feet of the rim this year, reducing his opponents’ average field goal percentage from 62% to 51.1%, a 10.9% decrease. For comparison’s sake, Richaun Holmes sat at -5.5% this year, while Marvin Bagley posted a defensive field goal percentage differential of -2.9% as a rookie. Turner would likely be the most effective starting caliber rim protector that the Kings have seen since the playoff drought began, and with Monte McNair wanting to establish a tougher, more defensive-minded culture in Sacramento, the acquisition of a true paint patroller could go a long way toward making that happen.

Unlike many of his fellow prolific shot-blockers, Turner also isn’t limited to only making an impact on the defensive end of the floor. Over the last three seasons, he’s nailed 36.2% of his 602 three point attempts. That kind of floor spacing is exactly what the Kings sought to acquire with their signing of Dewayne Dedmon last summer; however, both Turner and his three-point shooter are far more proven than a player of Dedmon’s caliber. Assuming that Luke Walton is able to develop a game plan that best highlights Turner’s strengths, he shouldn’t have any issue stretching the defense, allowing De’Aaron Fox and Marvin Bagley to get to work inside the paint.

Outside of his rim protection and floor spacing, Turner’s age and contract status should also attract Monte McNair’s interest. He’s locked up at an even $18 million per year over the next three years, with his contract running through the 2022-2023 season. Putting that in another context, at the end of this deal in 2023, Turner will still be younger than Buddy Hield, Bogdan Bogdanovic, and Harrison Barnes are right now. Picking up a starting caliber player whose career arc is much closer to that of De’Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, and the upcoming 12th pick in the draft would be a huge win for the Kings, especially if they are able to shed an older veteran with a large, long-term deal in the process.

If the Pacers are looking to move on from Myles Turner, or if Myles Turner is looking to move on from the Pacers, finding a deal between the two organizations should be simple, at least when it comes to salary matching. In the case that Indiana wants to find an off-guard, win-now replacement for Victor Oladipo, Buddy Hield or a signed-and-traded Bogdan Bogdanovic could headline the deal, while the Kings could also change things up and offer expiring the expiring contracts of Cory Joseph and Jabari Parker or Nemanja Bjelica, along with draft capital, such as the 12th overall pick, to satisfy the Pacers. Of course, it’s entirely possible that other teams offer more attractive packages than Sacramento, or that Indiana simply isn’t interested in what Monte McNair has to offer, but if both teams are looking to make something happen, suffice it to say that the salaries won’t be particularly difficult to match.

In Monte McNair’s introductory press conference, he highlighted the need for the Kings to stay flexible and patient in order to be ready to pounce when the right opportunity came along, and Myles Turner is an example of a right opportunity. While he may not ever develop into the second star that the Sacramento Kings so desperately need, he does represent an intelligent, forward-thinking acquisition for a team bereft of effective young players. Swapping out an older, highly-paid veteran for Turner would help reset the roster around De’Aaron Fox, while his skill set would complement and support Marvin Bagley’s growth, the player who has the best chance at becoming Sacramento’s sidekick extraordinaire for Fox. If Turner truly wants out of Indiana, the Kings should be at the front of the line to inquire about his services.

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BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 10:53 am

Turner was my pick in 2015 though he hasn’t blossomed at much as I thought, he’s definitely a reliably good starter on a decent contract who plays a key NBA role. And his age gives him hope for additional development.

He wouldn’t solve the Kings primary problem of lacking playmakers and passers, so hopefully this would only be one of multiple moves and wouldn’t necessitate using all of the Kings powder. It, theoretically, would enable them to move Holmes, who definitely has some trade value on his contract, in another deal.

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 11:30 am

I like Turner in a vacuum, but I resent the thought process of getting guys to build around /complement Marvin.

At this point, Marvin has to show that he can complement the team. Trying to build a team around a guy who hasn’t shown anything yet and might be huge injury liability is not what Monte should try to do.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 11:33 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Agreed. I was going to mention this in my post but forgot. Whether or not a player complements Bagley should have absolutely zero bearing on the Kings’ assessment of them.

Bryant
Member
September 29, 2020 11:34 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I disagree with this mainly because Turner is the kind of guy who can fit next to a wide range of bigs. It doesn’t NEED to be Bagley that he fits with – it’s just a extra benefit that he already does fit with the young big the Kings have.

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 11:38 am
Reply to  Bryant

Like I wrote, I like him in a vacuum.
But this is presented as if his fit next to Bagley is a big reason for getting him (it’s even the tagline under the title), and I don’t like that thought.

Last edited 3 months ago by RikSmits
andy_sims
September 29, 2020 11:45 am
Reply to  RikSmits

“I resent it.”

You might want to consider taking a couple of steps back from all of this. I’ve thought about it, and for the life of me, I can’t understand how resentment applies to anything sports-related, Lakers excepted.

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 11:58 am
Reply to  andy_sims

You might want to consider not giving life/emotional advice on a sports blog to people you never met. I resent that too.

andy_sims
September 29, 2020 12:02 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

A pattern emerges…

Sacto_J
September 29, 2020 12:25 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Nah, that was out of your lane, bro.
(replying to Andy. And not meant as a negative, just an observation.)

Last edited 3 months ago by Sacto_J
ArcoThunder
September 29, 2020 11:03 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I resent Vlade for not doing the obvious right thing. Select Luca

Last edited 3 months ago by ArcoThunder
Greg
Admin
September 29, 2020 12:42 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I agree to an extent. Players should first be evaluated on their abilities in a vacuum. Players should then be evaluated in the context of how they fit around current pieces. If they fit with those current pieces, that makes a player even more appealing. If they don’t fit, that doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t pursue them, but it does mean you need to decide if they are better than you current players or your current players’ potential. If so, you can acquire but then need to be planning how to move those other assets. It’s all just layers of evaluation.

Tim framed his evaluation around how Turner would fit with Bagley, but the new FO has no ties to Marvin and I doubt it would be the deciding factor on whether or not to pursue Turner.

ArcoThunder
September 30, 2020 4:02 am
Reply to  Greg

At the same time though, if you are McNair you look at this roster and you see Marvin as one of your biggest assets. Potentially!! Seeing him reach or even make significant steps towards reaching his ceiling would be optimal for McNair. Whether it’s with the hope that he’s so good you want to keep him or that he’s so good people want to trade for him. Either way, MBIII performing well next season should actually be one of the factors in the immediate roster building for our new GM. If a guy like Turner can help showcase and even help establish Marvins game by filling in his gaps precisely then thats even better. If Turner wasn’t a good compliment or fit next to MBII I’d still want them to do this trade BTW.

My preference would be Buddy and a second round pick for Turner.

ZillersCat
September 29, 2020 4:17 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Vacuum Turner.. how does that help the Kings?
comment image

Kosta
September 29, 2020 4:56 pm
Reply to  ZillersCat

We don’t need another hero-baller

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 5:13 pm
Reply to  ZillersCat

Wow, there really is an image, gif and uhh….a tweet for everything

September 29, 2020 8:26 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Firstly, I’d like to say, I agree with not counting Bagley as an egg in the basket. He hasn’t proven to be good at anything other than running baseline to baseline.

Secondly, I wanted to a-apologize for calling you out the other day. I was having a rough one, and decided to spill it your way. That was petty. I’m sorry, fella.

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 9:12 pm
Reply to  Gabriel_Bonito

I love it. With all the shit going on in the world, it’s good to see examples of how we can still be a community of sorts. It’s a community based on our willingness to subject ourselves to endless disappointment, but a community nonetheless.

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 9:28 pm
Reply to  Gabriel_Bonito

Thanks. We are good. I dish out so I should also be ready to absorb some pushback.

andy_sims
September 29, 2020 11:42 am

I like the possibilities inherent in a small-ish lineup with both Turner and Holmes. Myles complementary skill set to Bagley’s would also neatly apply to Holmes since he’s able to stretch the floor.

I wasn’t 100% clear as to whether you thought obtaining Turner would require Sacramento to also take Oladipo’s contract. I don’t think that’s what you were getting at, but thought I’d ask.

I do love Oladipo, and think he’d be a nice fit alongside Fox, but after such a serious injury, combined with the high likelihood that he’d bounce in a year, my enthusiasm is tempered. I guess if the goal is to unload Hield’s four years in order to acquire Oladipo’s expiring deal, I suppose you can justify that if you also get Turner.

ZillersCat
September 29, 2020 11:50 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Oladipo for Heild is the right idea. Then worry about finally finding a starting power forward would be cool. It has been a long time since Webber. Having backup centers and forwards fill in as starters for power forward, puts the Kings behind at that position for decades.

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 12:39 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

“I do love Oladipo”

You might want to consider taking a couple of steps back from all of this. I’ve thought about it, and for the life of me, I can’t understand how love applies to anyone sports-related who we’ve never met, Luka excepted.

SmallBallReject
September 29, 2020 2:13 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Is “prickly” a synonym for “dickish” 🙂 All in good fun.

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 10:47 pm

Nah. You ever heard about a dickish pear?

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I beg you to not google penile spines

Wonderchild
September 29, 2020 1:12 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Could be part of a 3 team deal though.

Kings get: Turner

Pacers get: Hayward

Celtics get: Oladipo, Holmes, Bjelica

9sac8
September 29, 2020 1:59 pm
Reply to  Wonderchild

Buddy, Barnes, or Bagley for Oladipo and Turner…ANY day.

Fox and Dipo in the backcourt is self-explanatory. Turner is our rim protector. I hate to say it, but he would compliment Bagley well, but Bagley needs to go…somewhere. We still can resign Bogi and fill in the gaps.

Last edited 3 months ago by 9sac8
BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 2:38 pm
Reply to  9sac8

Why would the Pacers make that trade?

9sac8
September 29, 2020 2:46 pm

Because we’re offering it.

9sac8
September 29, 2020 2:48 pm
Reply to  9sac8

We’re stuck in mediocrity. We got a REAL GM. It’s fucking go time.

SMF-PDXConnection
September 29, 2020 11:49 am

I like Turner. He seems like at the bare minimum a solid and flexible option for the frontcourt. What concerns me is what his thoughts will be after a half season or full season under Walton, who so spectacularly misplayed Dedmon that he got one of the relatively chillest guys in the league to become publicly disgruntled enough to demand trades in the media.

RobHessing
September 29, 2020 12:04 pm

At 3/$54m, he’s at least fair value, with some upside. If you can get him without giving up net assets, do it. I don’t really care how he fits with the current roster – it’s all about asset acquisition for me at this point. That said, I suppose it could be argued that if Turner was here and it benefited both him and Bagley, it would increase their value.

Sacto_J
September 29, 2020 12:05 pm

If Turner really is available the Pacers are going to have a number of suitors, which traditionally puts the Kings at an immediate disadvantage, so there’s that.
I’d be interested to see how he could be utilized in our “aggressive, uptempo” offense and I’d be excited if we could get him without getting fleeced but the probability is so low, IMO.

I realize S&T’s have become a bit of a rarity these days due to cap and salary matching complexities, but I would think some kind of S&T for Oladipo would make next season a hell of a lot more interesting than swapping Bogi for Turner.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 12:08 pm

I’d like to get Turner as well. I feel he more closely aligns with the modern NBA big than any other big man currently on the Kings roster. He can stretch the floor AND protect the rim. All that being said, I’m not sure the Kings have the right assets to get him. He is going to be a target by many teams that see his value and potential.

If Oladipo is out as well, the Pacers might want Buddy or Bogi. Buddy for Turner and Leaf works from a numbers stand point, but the Pacers may want more, and can likely get more from other teams. Maybe if the Kings tossed in a handful of 2nd rounders it gets it done?

Sacto_J
September 29, 2020 12:28 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

“Stretch the floor and protect the rim” reminds of another guy, and Walton didn’t know how to use him, either.

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 12:39 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

I think we should keep in mind that Dedmon has some responsibility for his poor play. It’s not like he returned to form once he was traded back to Atlanta.

Sacto_J
September 29, 2020 1:37 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Hard to say for certain, IMO, cuz after reviewing his BBReference page and looking at the raw numbers it appears he certainly improved and, based off minutes, was a whole lot closer to his expected performance of the previous season (with the exception of his 3s to be fair, though they did improve.)

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 2:10 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

I mean I don’t really see anything in his 10 games that screams returned to form. His TS% was actually higher in Sac than it was in ATL. It’s small sample sizes, but I think it’s safe to say he sucked last season regardless of the team he played for.

Also, I’m just not a big fan of assigning the blame to the coach when a player plays poorly. The coach, the player and the GM who constructed the unbalanced roster all share in the blame.

Otis
September 29, 2020 3:41 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

It’s all small sample size, so I’d probably consider it an aberration unless we’re talking about an injury or old age. I mean, he had five pretty solid seasons leading in.

The player should certainly get some blame, but the GM and coach get the lion’s share here,

September 29, 2020 12:19 pm

I love how we spend literally every pick aside from Fox on bigs and we still need to go out and get bigs because the ones we draft are either gone or have gaping holes in their game.

Thanks Vlade, have another cigarette

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
September 29, 2020 1:13 pm
Reply to  dhackett

comment image

RobHessing
September 29, 2020 2:10 pm
Reply to  Klam

Loseseeus Bawl.

Kosta
September 29, 2020 2:49 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Vlade’s unfavorite TV show: “I love Luka”

Gregoryl
September 29, 2020 3:05 pm
Reply to  dhackett

In fairness, when crappy big men are the only ones who would come to workout for Vlade…what did you expect him to do?!?!

September 29, 2020 4:04 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

i expected him to draft based on skill not “desire to be here”. But we all know how that went

eurostep
September 29, 2020 12:36 pm

I just don’t understand all of the Bagley hatred. The guy has been injured but when he has played he didn’t look half bad and like most young players has to lot to learn and can only learn by playing. You guy’s treat him like he’s the 13th man on a 12 man roster. His game is perfectly suited for today’s NBA. Luka he isn’t, but then again who is?

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 12:40 pm
Reply to  eurostep

When you say he didn’t look half bad, what parts looked half good? Also, how is he perfectly suited for today’s NBA? I’m not being snarky, I really want to know.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 12:50 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’m also curious. Today’s NBA is all about perimeter skills on offense. Ie. shooting, dribbling, playmaking. And versatility and/or rim protection on defense. None of that screams Bagley. He’s shown flashes of being an elite rim runner, interior finisher and offensive rebounder.

eurostep
September 29, 2020 1:12 pm

“He’s shown flashes of being an elite rim runner, interior finisher and offensive rebounder”

Those are skills that can be built upon. You guys comment like he’s a scrub that shouldn’t even be in the NBA, just because he’s not Luka. To get off of Bagley for a second, if today’s NBA is about dribbling and playmaking how was Walton wrong for expecting his starting 2 guard to be a dribbler and playmaker, like the other 2 guards in the league.

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 1:15 pm
Reply to  eurostep

We are not saying he does not have skills, but this is edging away rapidly from “perfectly suited to today’s NBA”.

eurostep
September 29, 2020 1:29 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Maybe it is but Bagley is no scrub and belongs in the league. If he can stay healthy (injures are not the fault of a player) he will only get better and have a very long and productive career.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 1:32 pm
Reply to  eurostep

Literally nobody has said or acted like this:

Maybe it is but Bagley is no scrub and belongs in the league. 

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 1:56 pm

yeah that’s thing. The whole “I’m measured in my assessment, and you all simply can’t properly evaluate Bagley due to wearing Doncic goggles” thing is just completely unnecessary. I’m probably lower on Bagley than most people, and I still think a Kenneth Faried type of career is his floor.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 2:41 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Yeah, I still think “Skinny Zach Randolph” is a pretty good description of his likely impact. Which says, sure, maybe he sneaks in a dubious All-Star appearance or two. He probably peaks at a 3rd or 4th option on a decent team assuming the right pieces around him.

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 9:53 pm

*Slim Zach Randolph

(I had to go back and double check)

My only hope is that the Kings will give Bagley the opportunity to expand his game, so he’s not ZBo reincarnate. This may be a bit too optimistic, but I hope that McNair can come in and say “here are the things we need you to work on to be a more complete player, we’re committed to providing the resources to help you succeed, and we’re going to give you the opportunity to work on those things this season.”

W/R/T this article, I don’t think they can do that if they bring in a guy like Turner. I don’t want them to mitigate Bagley’s flaws. I want him to work on mitigating them himself without worrying about wins and losses. Bringing in Turner just feels like telling Bagley “you do you.”

To be honest, I don’t think it’s that different from the Buddy situation (other than age) last season. I think teams should give their players legitimate opportunities to expand their game in ways that help the team win. If they fail, they fail. If they succeed, then they provide added value. Just look at Bam. He’s definitely an outlier, but what if the Heat never asked him to be a facilitator because passing wasn’t his strength ? Same with Giles. He had 9 total assists in his one year at Duke. Now he’s a top 5ish passing big man in the NBA.

Anyways, I’ll get off my soapbox. I just hope that this organization will commit the resources required to build an identity of fostering development. I want to get away from the image of a team that asks their players to do too much; dooming them to failure.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 1:33 pm
Reply to  eurostep

I don’t think anyone has called him a scrub. I think many just feel he’ll never live up to the #2 pick in a stacked draft. He may have a long and productive career, but right now I feel he won’t even make an all-nba or all-star team.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 1:19 pm
Reply to  eurostep

Expecting your players to do one thing when they clearly don’t have the skills to do is precisely the problem with Walton. Should he expect Holmes to camp on the perimeter and be a three shooter as well?

The point is, Walton didn’t put Buddy into a role where he could succeed. Buddy is an elite catch and shoot player. Having Buddy run the offense diminishes his elite skill.

eurostep
September 29, 2020 1:23 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

No, No, No. Buddy is and will always be an elite catch and shoot player but having him bring the ball up and make plays for others opens up the offense and gives the defense a different look. Teams are too good defensively, the Kings or any other teams can’t run the same offensive sets over and over.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 1:29 pm
Reply to  eurostep

I’m sorry, I don’t understand this logic. Good coaches put their players the best possible situation to win games. Having Buddy run the offense to give the defense “a different look” is not doing that.

Having Buddy be a catch and shoot player does not mean that it is the same offensive set over and over. The Warriors went to 5 straight Finals running plays for Klay to catch and shoot the ball, and they rarely, if ever had him run the offense.

Otis
September 29, 2020 3:42 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

You don’t understand Adam, we’re actually a developmental team, not a professional one.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 3:46 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Eh, I don’t think the Kings win any more games if Hield sticks to the Klay role. Klay can’t be Klay without Curry, Draymond, Durant, creating looks for him. It isn’t like the Kings have a bunch of great-but-underutilized playmakers being held back by Hield’s attempt to facilitate.

Sacto_J
September 29, 2020 1:45 pm
Reply to  eurostep

the only thing Buddy the ball handler opens up defensively is fast break opportunities for the other team after they’ve picked off his terrible passes or ripped the ball from him after he’s dribbled it off his ankle.

Are we being exposed to Walton’s “burner” account, here, or what?

andy_sims
September 29, 2020 2:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Somewhat off-topic, but given Holmes’ free throw percentage, I’d be surprised if he wasn’t shooting a respectable number from distance in the next few years. We know about his work ethic, so I’d take that bet.

Last edited 3 months ago by andy_sims
BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 2:28 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

He has nice touch, but his live shot has a major hitch, that has actually gotten worse over the years. He’d have to do some pretty decent rebuilding on that shot to become a meaningful threat from 3 IMO.

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 2:46 pm

One thing I’m curious about is if the Kings will add a dedicated shooting coach to their coaching staff. If I’m not mistaken Adam Filippi basically has a duel roll of Director of Pro Scouting and Shooting Coach. One would assume that a fully funded basketball operations dept. would hire two people to fill each of those roles.

The top tier guys can all afford to pay for their own shooting coach, but I would assume guys like Holmes are more reliant on the team for that type of thing.

Ialmostmissthemaloofs
September 29, 2020 9:46 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Agree with Adamsite. Referencing the Hield comment above – What’s wrong with expecting Buddy to do what other 2 guards in the league do – (paraphrasing) is that you don’t coach players that way. You coach to make use of their strengths as and cover their weaknesses. It’s fine to work on weaknesses to improve them – but Walton forces square pegs into round holes. He might have vision or a system in mind (not that I’ve seen any evidence of that… but he might), but but he has not coached to the team to take advantage of what the existing strengths are.
The system has to adapt to the personnel more than the other way around. Walton doesn’t seem to get that in my novice observation.

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 10:16 pm

I think we really need to look at Buddy’s output as a starter versus as a reserve. He went off doing the things people are saying he shouldn’t be doing as a reserve. I don’t think it’s that crazy to think that Buddy provides the most value as a super 6th man who can do a little more playmaking against lesser competition while having a more limited role in his minutes against starters.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 1:33 pm
Reply to  eurostep

That’s a totally different conversation and one that doesn’t have anything to do with Bagley.

Sacto_J
September 29, 2020 1:41 pm
Reply to  eurostep

He usually IS the 13th man on a 12 man roster, because he’s in street clothes more often than not.
When you’re gifted the #2 pick in a pretty talented draft and you pick the one guy made of glass who can’t contribute because his body keeps breaking, fans can become a little resentful (sorry, Rik.)

RikSmits
September 29, 2020 9:40 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

Don’t apologize to me. Sims resents this word.

September 30, 2020 6:37 am
Reply to  eurostep

Going to go out on a limb and say that I don’t think there’s a person here who “hates” Bagley or doesn’t want him to succeed. What we hate is the pick that Vlade made which will go down as one of the worst in NBA history. I would like nothing more than to see Bagley be the Giannis-type player that Luke and Vlade said he will be, I just don’t think it’s ever going to happen

AirmaxPG
September 29, 2020 12:41 pm

It just seems like it would be more re-arranging of the deck chairs. Hield and a pick for Turner (assuming the Pacers would even consider that) doesn’t address what I think is the most important issue here:

How are we going to get a star here? Like a real #1 on a good playoff team star?

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 12:47 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

I wouldn’t call it rearranging the deck chairs if you are moving a player (Buddy) who doesn’t want to stick around in Sac for a player that fills a need. Also, I’m not sure the Kings would need to add a pick, especially a first rounder, to trade for Turner. Couldn’t it be argued that Buddy is the better NBA player? I would say they are on par in terms of talent and an asset.

A move of Buddy for Hield would also ensure the Kings match any offer to Bogi and making him their starting SG. Buddy for Turner would better round out the roster, IMO.

AirmaxPG
September 29, 2020 1:14 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If we could land Turner straight up for Buddy, I’d be fine with it. But what I’m getting at is we’d be committing further to building around this team with a limited ceiling. We might add a couple wins this year, which means late lottery again.

I think the only way we’re getting that alpha player to build a contender around is the 2021 or 2022 draft. So barring some more miraculous lottery luck (again), we’d be arranging deck chairs on a team that MAYBE can make a couple cameo playoff appearances.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 1:24 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

I agree that getting a stud in future drafts is the Kings best option to relevancy, but that doesn’t mean they do nothing until the land that player. Turner is a fine young player that would fit any timeline the Kings might have. At 24, he’d be the 3rd youngest player of the Kings core going into next season AND he’d be locked up long term on a very fair value contract.

I don’t think Turner would move the needle in the wins/loss column anymore than Buddy would, but I’d prefer his age, contract, and style of play in the trade.

AirmaxPG
September 29, 2020 1:40 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I just don’t see the point. Knowing that it’s a lateral move (at least for the next couple years), it seems unproductive to use the few assets we have to remain a late lottery team. Especially with these incredible drafts coming up.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
September 29, 2020 2:47 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Again, it’s about moving a disgruntled player in exchange for a younger player at a position and skill of need. The move also gives the Kings the comfort and flexibility for other moves, like keeping Bogi or moving Holmes and Nemanja.

AirmaxPG
September 29, 2020 2:55 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I get what you are saying. In my opinion it’s just not accomplishing anything. Just keeping us mediocre. I’d rather trade Buddy for propects or picks.

And it seems like Turner is disgruntled in Indiana… why would that change here?

Ialmostmissthemaloofs
September 29, 2020 9:52 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

“seems like Turner is disgruntled in Indiana… why would that change here?”
That’s a very good question actually.
Guys who get disgruntled somewhere often seem to have that in their nature. This organization has been a mess for a long long time, and while Im hopeful that will improve, I’m not going to bet money on it just yet. This would as good a place as any to be disgruntled at.

andy_sims
September 30, 2020 8:14 am

Maybe we could gruntle him.

BestHyperboleEver
September 30, 2020 8:48 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Was he ever gruntled before? Do we need to regruntle him?

Sacto_J
September 30, 2020 10:42 am
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Off loading Buddy’s contract is what’s being accomplished. Along with offloading his ridiculous postgame commentary.

RAP87
September 30, 2020 12:01 am
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Agreed. I like Turner a LOT and if we were trying to compete for a playoff spot next year (which I think we shouldn’t) I would totally be on board with trading our asset to get him. But just like you I don’t think it is wise to trade for him since it might cost us a few more wins that could hurt our draft position in 2021.. I’d rather trade most of our players mainly Buddy, Bogi, Bjelly, Holmes and let our new draft picks get on the floor together with Fox and Bagley. Landing a top 5 pick in 2021 should be a PRIORITY for this team.

Last edited 3 months ago by RAP87
LandParkJimmer
September 29, 2020 12:43 pm

“The Pacers big man would be a perfect front-court partner for Marvin Bagley” – Seriously?? You want to build around the player who is constantly injured and has proved nothing? Why not pair him with Holmes who actually gets time on the court and produces?

Kosta
September 29, 2020 1:09 pm

I could see Vivek being on board with M(y)les.

He seems like a jazzy player.
comment image

But if things go Sideways with M(y)les, I will bust out the alcohol.
comment image

Last edited 3 months ago by Kosta
Gregoryl
September 29, 2020 3:07 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Covid makes this scene even more disgusting…

Kosta
September 29, 2020 5:13 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Right? Who drinks Merlot!!!

Bill2455
September 29, 2020 2:03 pm

Sacramento can not afford him. New state income taxes price him out of our ability to pay. He will go to one of the Texas teams, Florida teams, or elsewhere.

RobHessing
September 29, 2020 2:13 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Makes you wonder how the Dubs, Clips and Lakers sign these guys…

Bill2455
September 29, 2020 2:14 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Much bigger TV markets and wealthier fans for expensive seats.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 2:25 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Milwaukee!

Ultimately, winning or the promise of winning has much more to do with attracting FAs than market size or state income tax.

Wonderchild
September 29, 2020 2:27 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

and agents pushing players to those larger, more lucrative markets.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 2:35 pm
Reply to  Wonderchild

Agents don’t care as long as they get their cut. And with the type of ubiquitous access we have these days there’s no reason market limits income (salary or endorsement). Guys like Westbrook (in OKC), Lillard, and Giannis are among the players making the most endorsement money. As was Durant in OKC. Obviously, LeBron had no problem with exposure and endorsements in Cleveland. Meanwhile guys like, let’s say, Julius Randle isn’t making any more in endorsements in NY than he was in NO.

Ability, exposure (in terms of playing time and airtime) and success have a lot more to do with income than market size.

Wonderchild
September 29, 2020 3:14 pm

Oh ok, I get it. So all those people on major networks like ESPN putting pressure on Giannis to leave Milwaukee would be perfectly ok with him staying in a smaller market. Draymond Green pleading with Booker on live TV to get his ass out of Phoenix would be perfectly ok with him staying in a smaller market.

There are people out there that call Kyle Kuzma a star for crying out loud.

Last edited 3 months ago by Wonderchild
BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 3:41 pm
Reply to  Wonderchild

Draymond doesn’t have any power. And you notice nobody is telling Aldridge to get out of San Antonio. Or Lillard to get out of Portland. 7 of the 10 teams in markets smaller than the Kings were in the playoffs this year. Market size is a thing, but it’s a small thing. It’s mostly a useful cop out for shitty teams.

Wonderchild
September 29, 2020 4:42 pm

I disagree, at least in regards to free agent destinations.

RobHessing
September 29, 2020 2:36 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

But that does not change the tax liability for the player. It just lines the owner’s pockets more. LeBron, AD, Kawhi, PG, Curry, Thompson, Green, Durant (when he was here), etc., all pay the same state tax as Kings players.

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 2:46 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

It’s also worth pointing out that athletes don’t simply pay the tax rate of their home state. They fill for each state they play in and pay those state’s taxes. Tangentially, athletes (and other high earners that make money in multiple states) are paying more under current federal tax statutes.

Ialmostmissthemaloofs
September 29, 2020 9:59 pm

I never knew that. So they pay taxes per game and where that game is played? Seems odd. (Not doubting you… just saying that I don’t get it.)
So if I’m in sales (which I am), and I close a huge deal at a hospital in Texas… I don’t pay taxes in Texas. I have my primary residence in CA, so that’s where I pay taxes. You are saying that athletes don’t operate that way?

RORDOG
September 29, 2020 11:04 pm

State X hosts an event that creates costs for State X, and generates income for Player Y. Player Y resides in State Z. Why would State Z collect tax revenue from Player Y if the costs associated with the event are incurred by state X?

This is the RORDOG’s “examine your zipper” economic theorem FYI.

(Also, this shit is all dumb. States really shouldn’t be in a competition that’s essentially a tax revenue race to the bottom. It just ends up hurting the least among us. It would be really cool if we lived in a world in which we cared more about how tax policy can decrease poverty instead of worrying about how it will affect our favorite team’s ability to attract free agents)

Last edited 3 months ago by RORDOG
Sacto_J
September 30, 2020 10:48 am
Reply to  RORDOG

I heart this comment.

Gregoryl
September 29, 2020 3:08 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

And also, you know…the Kangz suck!

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 2:18 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Putting aside the obvious counter examples, it doesn’t really matter. He’s under contract for 3 more years.

TheEffortPolice
September 29, 2020 2:21 pm

Even though he showed some signs of life as a weakside shot-blocker in his rookie year, Marvin Bagley has yet to show the instincts or the desire to anchor the paint for the Kings, and that’s okay. His bread and butter trend more towards rebounding and isolation scoring.

I’m going to stop you right there. That is definitely NOT okay.

Why would we go out of our way to painstakingly find a frontcourt partner to build around rebounding and iso scoring? Building around face-up and post-up isos? Definitely what all the smart organizations are out there doing these days, amirite?

Frankly I’m half-tempted to just keep him and Walton on for a year to be co-tankmasters, let Walton take the blame for that, then jettison Bagley out to some suckass organization who buys into his counting stats.

SMF-PDXConnection
September 29, 2020 5:28 pm

then jettison Bagley out to some suckass organization who buys into his counting stats.

But how would we jettison him to ourselves?

BestHyperboleEver
September 29, 2020 5:39 pm

Just jettison him straight upward.

Sacto_J
September 30, 2020 10:50 am

He could finally get some appreciation for his otherworldly second jump around here…lol

ScottyPop
September 29, 2020 3:31 pm

This is how we ended up with Dedmon.

In my opinion, Marvin Bagley has not yet shown that he’s worth bringing in other players to complement his skill set.

SelecaoKOJ
September 29, 2020 5:47 pm

Not interested. Number one he can’t shoot the 3 ball. So, you’re going to have 2 guys in your frontcourt that can’t shoot. He really doesn’t spread the floor, Turner and Bagley are similar Players. I would surmise Bagley being the net negative when he’s on the floor. Turner is a middling starter who doesn’t really move the needle. Like Harrison Barnes 2.0. In the sense. He doesn’t really help you win many games and he won’t be the causation for a lot of losses. In addition, Myles plays the disappearing act, as well. Will show up in some games and be a ghost in others. Don’t want him and he really doesn’t improve the team one iota. He’s an eh and the team needs to move away from players like Turner. It’s a losers mentality. Now, if you’re taking a flyer on Oladipo, that’s different. Turner is a Vlade type pick up. Another big who is a mediocre rebounder, average shooter, zero playmaker. Monte will steer clear of this I hope.

NorCalKingsFan
September 29, 2020 10:12 pm

If somehow we can get Turner, he is immediately the 2nd best player on the team edging out Hield with his strong two-way play.

This is the only type of player I would be okay trading Buddy for…Hield is a valuable piece and if he has to be traded, a young player with fringe All-Star quality like Turner or guaranteed high picks are the only thing I believe are even returns.

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