The word ‘tweener’ in the NBA was once used to refer to players that were too slow laterally to keep up with athletic small forwards, but too weak to battle with burly power forwards.
In the modern game, a ‘tweener’ sways between a wing (or power forward) and the center role due to the aforementioned defensive complications. Some players are never able to solidify into either one and remain a negative on the defensive end as they float in the upside-down of ‘tweeners’.
Marvin Bagley III currently resides in an uncharted residence amongst John Collins, Julius Randle, Lauri Markannnen, and Christian Wood among others on land owned by Kevin Love and Jabari Parker.
Defensively, they are all negative outcasts in essentially every scenario. Yet for some of them, including Bagley, a glimmer of hope remains built around youth and development optimism. There is one path toward discovering if Sacramento’s big man can become a positive player on the defensive end of the floor.
Experimentation.
Monte McNair’s debut offseason as Kings’ general manager included the polarizing signing of Hassan Whiteside and a less impactful non-guaranteed deal given to Frank Kaminsky. Adding Richaun Holmes into the equation, the roster featured three players that were undeniable centers and worries surfaced about Bagley’s opportunity in that role.
Kaminsky did not make it past training camp, and Whiteside was given limited playing time before suffering a left hip flexor strain early in the season that sidelined him for a short stretch. This led to Marvin Bagley seeing action as the five-man on the floor, which was a welcome sight no matter the lackluster results.
Since returning from his absence, Whiteside’s presence has eliminated Bagley’s opportunity to progress and discover the intricacies of weakside help, pick-and-roll coverage, protecting the rim, etc.
Outside of a few short-lived outliers, all of Bagley’s minutes have come alongside one of Holmes or Whiteside from that point on. There is no denying this has been a factor in the slightly improved defense, but Whiteside is not the savior some make him out to be.
The truth is that Hassan Whiteside is an extremely flawed defensive player in his own right who is likely gone after this season’s conclusion.
What’s more important? Winning three more games (if even) because Hassan Whiteside is on the floor, or discovering if the 21-year-old Marvin Bagley can potentially work his way from a crippling negative on defense to neutral by playing the center?
There are sparse flashes of verticality to hold onto from the Duke product. 6’11” with a 7’1″ wingspan and an infamously spectacular second jump is an ideal prototype for a rim protector.
Is he usually a half-step late to rotate? Absolutely. Does he understand the proper methods of pick-and-roll defense? Negative. Is he foul prone due to a habit of jumping at everything? Undoubtedly.
Can he grow out of these flaws? Only if he is given an opportunity to experience these in-game and reflect on his mistakes during film sessions.
He is never going to be a perfect defender by any stretch of the meaning, but progressing towards neutral would be outstanding while most of his impact will come on the offensive end of the floor.
This is not to take away from the developments shown on the perimeter, even though he often finds himself with his feet crossed and blown by. It simply should not be decided that Marvin Bagley is a four, no questions asked.
Marvin Bagley has shown encouraging progress this season, primarily on offense, likely due to a more defined and limited role. The progression shown in his three-point shooting allows a possibility of him alongside a center who can’t space the floor.
But in the NBA, you are what you can guard and on the other side of the ball, Bagley’s ideal position remains undefined. He may be most competent as a power-forward who is not the primary player responsible for protecting the rim. He may be able to develop into a rim protector himself and enable lineups with five shooters to unlock De’Aaron Fox’s driving ability. He might be both.
But we will never know if Bagley is not given the opportunity to learn both positions. Hassan Whiteside should not be the reason that Marvin Bagley is not given that chance.
Vlade said he could play the three and lately I am being told that we need to reevaluate Vlade the GM and give him credit because the Kings managed to play “break even” basketball – don’t look at the third worst point differential in the West, but I digress – through 23 games.
So, I am thinking that we should defer to our fallen genius and conclude that Bagley is a SF!
Haven’t you seen go end to end at least 3 times a game and take it all the way into the paint? Sure he turns it over 95% of the time, but he’s only in his 3rd year!
He’s clearly a PG.
Magic Johnson, only taller.
Giannis, only better second jump.
Muhammad Ali, only Greatest-er.
Luka Doncic, only Daddy-er.
Michael Jordan, only takes it more personally.
LeBron, only Kangzier.
Tom Brady, only MAGAier.
Wait …
Pervis Bagley, only Pervisier.
Finally you get it! It was considered joke at the time, but he is small forward. only problem is he is a really bad small forward.
People are telling you this?
I would suggest you don’t take those people very seriously. What a hilarious idea.
https://twitter.com/CarmichaelDave/status/1358214034240065537
A brief conversation.
“No!”
Because this team would look exactly the same had we drafted Poku or Precious, and you just know Vlade would have had those two in his wheelhouse.
Bogi match would have been a guarantee which doesn’t leave much playing time for Tyrese, if he is selected at all!
What a dark alternate reality!
I can’t imagine (Kings) life without Tyrese.
We are already experiencing the alternate reality of drafting Bagley, not Luka
The morning after the draft was very sobering. 🙁
I think about Luka in my basketball dreams. Then I wake up and stare into the dark abyss of reality. But there, waiting in a halo and wings, is the angel Tyrese to pull me out of it.
Yeah I was fine with letting Bogi walk and at this point 1/3 or so of the way through the season, that seems like it was the right call. Bogi has been really bad for Atlanta thus far and he’s been injured most of the year.
Yeah, and imagine if Vlade was still the GM he probably would’ve overpaid to keep Bogi.
Yeah Vlade definitely would have given him like a 4/92 deal or something like that.
And would have traded the #12 overall for Frank Kaminsky.
Well, maybe we can get some fans of other teams to clamor for Vlade the way some fans did/do for Sam Hinkie.
We just need to come up with a slogan like “Trust The Process” that fans from other teams can get behind.
Hmmmm…… “Trust The Process”…………………………….”In Vlade We Trust”
…….how about “TRUST THE VLADE!”
***********
Once another franchise hires Vlade, we can then proceed to do some lopsided trading with him for the benefit of the Kings.
VD, now as ever, has far more invested in improving the Lakers than the Kings.
If you thought the Pau Gasol trade was lopsided, just wait til you see what Divac offers the Lakers for a return of squat.
Trust the Abscess.
TRUST VD!
Reminds me–I need to go buy some flowers and chocolates or something!
“Wow – Avoid the playoffs, Vlade Divac!”
“That’s good advice!”
Here’s hoping that McNair can treat symptoms of VD!
We had VD, now you can too!
Um…. no. There will not be any readjusting in any way shape or form. Vlade’s failure was total and absolute. This article about Bagley is proof enough of that.
Except Vlade would have passed on Haliburton and made an obscure, currently undrafted player very happy.
Yeah, maybe hang out with different people who aren’t morons.
Basketball is becoming more positionless with switching defenses and all the bigs spending time behind the arc. But assuming you have to pick positions and as much as I know I’m asking for ridicule for this opinion, Bagley is playing more like a 3 than anything else. He can’t guard anyone. 5s and 4s have overpowered him and his footwork is so bad that 3s blow by him like he’s standing still. On offense, he’s been most productive shooting 3s and cutting, a traditional SF role. He completely lacks the ability to finish strong in traffic, something you need from 4s and 5s. I think he’s closer to having enough speed and athleticism to guard 3s than he is to having the strength/will to guard 4s or 5s. At the end of the day, he’s not a starting caliber NBA player at any position right now and barely deserves bench minutes. Maybe that’ll change, but I see a faster path for him to being a serviceable SF than a 4 or 5 unless he puts on some serious bulk quickly.
I agree. I think Walton only trusts him on the floor right now when Holmes or Whiteside can be out there with him and help cover his deficiencies.
I was actually wondering this as well the last few weeks, a defensively horrible 3, at least until he improves his stance and footwork, learns to jump passing lanes, but closer to defensively tolerable than playing the 4 or 5.
He is the right fielder in Little League.
“Fallen Genius” hahaha
Isn’t he supposed to be the ideal running-mate for Fox? I mean, that’s why we drafted him over one of the best players to ever play basketball
Let the boy play, he’s improving a bit lets see if he can build on it through the season
The funny thing is, it may be Tyrese Haliburton that is limiting Bagley’s minutes. Simply stated, Fox, Barnes, Holmes, Hield and Haliburton are the roster’s best five, and there is a pretty big gulf between 5th and 6th. Bagley brings nothing to the defensive end that Holmes and Barnes don’t provide up front, and Haliburton is the better and more versatile offensive player.
Yup. At this point I think Walton is only starting Bagley in order to get him minutes that he otherwise can’t afford to in critical moments.
Truth be told, I feel Bagley would learn and perhaps be more successful coming off the bench against second units.
Bagley is an amalgam of the guys that started in front of Manu Ginobli. Tyrese is Manu.
Pretty much. He’s like all the guys on those good Spurs teams that started in the froncout alongside Duncan, but for some reason we can’t remember who they were.
Nazr Mohammed? Thiago Splitter? Boris Diaw? The Red Mamba?
Some guys I remembered. Diaw was pretty dece.
I guess Robert Horry is in there too, but If Bagley is to those guys as Tyrese is to Manu, then MB3 is largely replaceable and forgettable.
David Robinson!
FRANCISCO ELSON IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS!!
Francisco
Francisco! that’s fun to say!
Francisscooooo
Tyrese reminds me a little of Tony Parker with that teardrop shot.
Tyrese reminds me a little of Michael Jordan with that greatest player of all time thingy.
My two least favorite NBA players ever are the Boring Brothers, Manu and Parker. You guys are making me throw up a little bit.
And add this truth to be told as well. If we plan on winning against Philly tomorrow, then we need to combat their lineup with our own.
Simmons
Curry
Green
Harris
Embiid…with Maxey and Melton off the bench.
Tomorrow’s starting line up for us should be…
Fox
Hali
Buddy
Barnes
Holmes
We need Whiteside, Bagley, and Metu ready because Embiid smells blood. That’s 24 fouls. We should wear his ass out at some point. I am concerned with Buddy guarding Curry or Green. I’m concerned with Buddy guarding a toilet. They will probably torch him if he doesn’t torch them first. I believe we will win tomorrow. Not sure who matches up with Simmons, but if it’s Fox, he better deny the post or have amazing back side help. We don’t necessarily match up with Philly well either. It’ll be game of chess, so tell Walton to put down the legos.
*Premature STAMP IT
Yum, Green Curry .. but I digress.
The defensive matchups are concerning. I would love to see Hali guarding Simmons during 4th quarter. And I hope that is Curry the one to guard Fox but at some point I think it’s going to be Thybulle
Curry has been playing reduced minutes for some time.
We gonna eat ’em up
(Mike) Bratz?
hello
It’s pretty much that simple. I’ve been saying all year that I just look at Bagley almost like a 2nd round pick at this point. If he does something positive it’s like, “Hey, good for him!” but other than that I think it’s pretty obvious at this point he isn’t a part of the core or the future here. We are fully in Ben Mclemore territory at this point.
That really is a good way to put it… “Ben McLemore territory.”
Yeah I remember coming to this realization with Mclemore. I was so high on him coming out of the draft because the shooting stroke with the athleticism but at was about midway through year 3 where I just realized it wasn’t going to happen. I know Bagley has played a lot less minutes than Mclemore did early in his career but while there are flashes, you can just tell the BBIQ isn’t there to ever be anything more than a very limited player.
That is a bit of an over exaggeration. McLemore wasn’t good at anything… Bagley can indeed score. He just doesn’t score well enough to justify more minutes because of how bad his defense is.
He has scored in double digits in only 2 of his last 6 games, and one of those was at exactly 10 points.
Now, minutes are a big factor in this tiny sample size, but not the only one!
In sum, while much of his game is as I anticipated from the get-go, I really thought he would be a more accomplished scorer at this point in his career, even looking at the larger statistical picture.
3-10 when he plays more than 24 min.
9 -1 when he plays less than 24 min.
This needs to be purpled.
I’m sure a lot of people are experts at making things go purple.
Your condescending attitude when it pertains to your intelligence along with the horrible takes you’ve had on Bagley over the years make me puke
Don’t sugar coat it, man, say how you feel.
For comparison:
Kings + Kyle Guy:
0-0 when he plays more than 24 min.
12-11 when he plays less than 24 min.
Very good response showing how ridiculous that Bagley stat was that got so much unnecessary attention.
This. I was a total advocate of Bagley and giving him minutes to develop when the season started. 30+ and let’s see how it shakes out. The results are what they are through 23 games though…the Kings are clearly better with him in the reduced role. I don’t see how you just gift him minutes at this point for “development” sake. I think it sends a terrible message to the rest of the team about your desire to win and respecting the efforts and progress they have shown recently. Doesn’t mean I , the front office or actual players dislike or think Marvin has no potential…it’s just plainly obvious what gives the team the best chance to win. And for the next stretch of games, these players have earned the right to try and win.
Now if we get to mid March and this team is 18-25 or something, then sure develop away the last third of the season. But until then you still have to make sure you are providing a proper environment (ideally winning culture) to develop Fox and Hali, your two most important assets at this point.
I’m surprised at the response to this post because it’s when of those vacuum stats that are very misleading. The starting lineup with Bagley is performing well and if not Bagley where else are you going to get those 20 minutes. Walton is using Bagley really well. That 3-10 record in part is because Walton will use Bagley in garbage time on the few blowouts we’ve had so he got minutes in those situations which skews the stat. I’m not saying we shouldn’t expect more from a number 2 pick but he’s at least 6 or 7 on this roster so his minutes are appropriate.
Agreed as it pertains to the dynamic of Bagley getting more burn in big losses via garbage time. But I’m not sure that it changes the dynamic of him playing less in close games. It is proving difficult to have him on the floor during crunch time. And let’s be honest – this roster is not deep, and with Bjelica on ice it’s really no accomplishment that Bagley is getting his current allotment of minutes.
It just comes across as one of those trash Bagley posts supported by a questionable/meaningless stat. There is no doubt he is improving and working harder recognizing that even the most ardent Bagley supporters would like to see him farther along. With that said, you partially agreed with my response by acknowledging the weakness of the bench. Because of that, Bagley is an important piece right now because the significant part of the roster extends to at least 8 players and MB is certainly one of our top 8 players.
I’ve been screaming from the mountain top since game 3 to abandon traditional positioning and play our best lineup more. That lineup Fox, Buddy, Hali, Barnes, Holmes has certainly proven to be our best and most effective lineup. Give credit to Walton for strategically getting Bagley 20 minutes and recognizing that during crunch he’s not our best option.
Totally agree. This was my recent breakdown on Bagley:
Bagley is playing more team ball than I have ever seen him. He is rebounding well. He is not forcing nearly as many shots. He is getting better as a team defender and is making an effort as an individual defender. He is still well below average at both but I can see he is at least trying to improve. Watch as he is coming off the court for a timeout or sub, there is ALWAYS an assistant in his ear. I guarantee you this is defensive advice. I think he is on info-overload a bit. He has to think about it a little too much right now. I think we all need to remember he is learning on the fly against the best players in the world. He is listening and putting in the effort. He is still super young so I expect if he continues putting in the effort, he will progress.
Marvin and Luka = born two weeks apart
He’s plenty old enough to be way better than he is.
Really good post!!
Exactly correct. Oh my god, enough with Bagely and he needs time to improve. He’s had more than enough time. Time to move on. He is who he is. Get rid of him.
This is like some other athletic #2 picks. The Coke Machine. Beasley. Year after year people thought they just needed a chance. Bullshit.
And I do think Kings can make playoffs and are building because of Tyrese and Gentry actually installing an O.
Honstly, I think anyone is still holding out hope that Bagley “needs time to drastically improve” are wishful thinking at this point. I never rooted for Bagley to be a bust, but I haven’t seen significant improvement in 2.5 seasons to see him taking that next step. Could it still happen? Sure. But I’m more confident betting the under over the over at this point from what I’ve seen.
Yes. Chances are incredibly slim to none.
My ultimate point is….let somebody else invest in that dream.
I came at you a little snarky yesterday in regards to Bagley, but I’m genuinely curious what you’d like the Kings to do with him? He can’t have a whole lot of trade value at the moment and although he doesn’t offer a ton to this team (and even with that said, he’s still the 2nd best “big” on the roster) wouldn’t it just be best to let him ride out his rookie deal and evaluate him at next year’s deadline as to whether or not he’ll be in the long term plans?
if you’re asking me what I’d do…
I’ve already evaluated him. right now he’s taking up a valuable roster spot so I’d trade him and just say..
It took some time for us to create the flexibility we need, and to get out from under the previous front office’s moves. We like the trade and we will continue to seek ways to improve.
I’d cut my losses and blame Vlade as passive aggressively as I could say it.
Fair enough. I think he’s shown enough to keep his roster spot on this team (which is an incredibly low bar) and since I don’t think you’re getting anything more than a flier on another young underperforming player, I’d rather just ride his contract out. But agree to disagree.
Trade Buddy and for a package deal. We need an over Hali takes over at PG, let Fox attack all game. We need a solid starting PF that can shoot, provide space , and rebound. Barnes is tearing shit up. Keep him.
Bags an Buddy should move on wth their careers. A few other bench players to ride that pine unselfishly, show support, and be ready when your name is called.
Monte has to see this, we need another 2 guard and PF. ..Like deadas before we fucked out of another trade
*Buddy and Bags
I am worried that you (and others) are correct. One reason I hold out some hope is that he really hasn’t played much in 2.5 years.
My feeling is he could still improve and become a more complete player. I think as long as we are seeing some improvement he is at least on the right track and he might be worth the effort to develop but if he starts to flatline or stop working to get better….see ya.
There’s no doubt he can be a decent player. But I think many put high expectations and hold out hope only because he was drafted at “number 2.” If he was showing drastic improvement, I might think he could have a chance to be a very good player, maybe All-Star at some point, but I’m just not seeing it happening. And it also isn’t helping that statically the team just plays better and more as a team when he isn’t on the floor.
Sad but true. True but sad.
Was gonna reply to your early post that Hali is the one keeping Marvin from playing 4th quarter minutes, but I just gave you a rec – cause its spot on. I think Ben McLemore territory (while funny) is a little too premature. He came to the league with that AAU / lack of Defense / entitled mentality. He played in a zone at Duke (bad on Coach K for not forcing him to play man, but I digress). Coupled with that, he missed huge chunks of time in year 1, damn near all of season 2, all of training came this year (COVID), and full scrimmage practice this year with the wrist injury. Is he going to be Bam Adebayo? Probably not, but lets give him some slack and see what we have. I would not mind playing him over Hassan in early 4th quarter minutes. He just isn’t better than Holmes or Hali at this point to keep him on the floor at crunch time.
This is it, so much so that developing Bagley at all could become less and less important.
I’m starting to think Bagley won’t be on this team by the end of the season. I actually hope he is as I don’t think any of us think Whiteside is part of this team long term and unless Bagley can be traded for a long term replacement (which is probably unlikely), the Kings need to invest more time in to Bagley. He still has a lot of upside.
you could say that about any bad player in the NBA. What compels you to want to continue to invest in this one?
Hey, if GameStop can run, why not a GameStopper?
Is it too late to buy Haliburton stocks? I know they’re sky high right now.
On that note, probably should go find a Haliburton rookie card somewhere….
Sorry, I’ll clarify. Being that he’s actually healthy, I think they should ride out the rest of this season and then decide his fate in the offseason. I’m not a Bagley advocate but he’s shown good improvements on offense and he is a really good athlete. I think we can say that his value as an asset is probably the highest it’s been since his first season in the league and injuries aside, it’s probably not going down from where it’s at now.
This is a very good and balanced post. Certainly we should want more from the number 2 player in a draft but Bagley is improving and we need to at least give him this season. Also, something not said, the 20 minutes Bagley is giving the team right now are important given the weakness of the bench. The starting lineup with Bagley has a decent net rating and the lineup of Fox, Hali, Buddy, Barnes, Holmes has a plus 20 net rating. Beyond that, when you go to that bench, things get really bad. So right now Bagley’s minutes are really significant to the teams success. He’s certainly a better option than Robinson or Metu and really the only playable guys after our best lineup are Bagley and Whiteside and maybe short stints of Joseph.
No. This is not baseball. There is no minor league adjustment time. There is no learning to use a wood bat or hit a slider.
This is basketball, the one sport where one player can transform a team overnight.
Tyrese Haliburton is a good example of this.
Marvin Bagley is not.
Still relevant…
Kings fan: It takes three years to develop.
Tyrese Haliburton: Hold my beer.
Bagley has never played center in his life.
And I doubt that his father would be very happy about it.
There are simply too many lineups where Bagley is obviously guarding the other team’s center for people to keep insisting that he isn’t a center. I would guess that he’ll spend most of his career playing as and guarding power forwards, but the way people dig in their heels that he doesn’t play center just seems like a strange hill on which to die.
When Bagley is in, and neither Holmes or Whiteside is on the floor, who are you suggesting is playing center if not Marvin Bagley?
I agree with you, Marvin does need more time at the five, but Walton is still trying to win games now at the expense of the team’s long-term goals. The clown needs to go.
Does anyone remember when the last time Bagley played in the 4th quarter, and what the team’s record is when he does? Just genuinely curious.
Bagley ideal position is off the team. He has not improved, and still does not seem to conceive of any basketball set in which he is not focal point. hoping that we can move him for another high lottery pick that has trouble fitting in with their team, or vet on bad contract who is good compliment for holmes. kevin love?
“Yes, that’s right. We’d like to trade you our high lottery pick, who hasn’t panned out so far, for your future high lottery pick, who might become a key asset going forward. Hello? Hello?”
I read it as high lottery pick that hasn’t worked out. not a future high lottery pick. I could have read it wrong?
You read it correctly, Andy Sims didn’t
Why not just play him more? Giving his minutes away to Robinson and Whiteside just don’t make sense. He’s a 20/12 player per 40 minutes and, while he’s a negative on defense, so is just about every other player on the team. There is plenty of hate on this site for Whiteside and the hate on Bagley seems to be who he isn’t rather than who he is. Playing him less than 20 minutes per game makes no sense in getting the most out of an asset. If he’s a bust, better to know that with him playing 30-35 minutes per game rather than giving the extra minutes away to players who don’t figure long for this team.
You do know that if we’re using counting stats as a justification, Whiteside > Bagley, right?
I really think Walton and McNair are coming to a crossroads with Bagley. It’s clear that the team plays better basketball when he is not on the court, but he will also not improve unless he gets significant minutes.
Do the Kings play to win games, as the have recently done by giving Bagley reduced minutes, or do they give Bagley more minutes with an increased chance of losing?
You play to win the game – herm edwards
I would pay multiple dollars to hear McNair’s unvarnished opinion on this stuff. For all we know, McNair and Walton may be in 100% agreement on Bagley’s role and the overall minutes distribution. It’s not implausible that McNair’s plan is to slowly build around this core, and not risk their development in an attempt to secure a high draft pick. A lot of people talk about the relative importance of “culture.” What if they believe nothing will substantively change until this team prioritizes having a winning mentality? Like they’ll play Bagley enough minutes to continue is development, but his development will not come at the expense of winning winnable games.
Good point. I’m down with approach.
Exactly
Totally butt pulled but I think this is very plausible. I’m guessing Mcnair looked at the roster when he got here and decided to draft Hali and then just see where they’re at as the season moves forward. If they end up being a lot better than they expected, then maybe they are at a different phase of development than they thought. And not to ruin the good vibes or be that guy but I suspect Monte will still look to move some guys because this team will still be out of the playoffs.
I’d like to know who the Kings thought would be there for them at #12 had Hali not amazingly fallen to them. That might give us a better tell to McNair’s goals because I believe the Hali pick was 100% BPA and they had him ranked in the top 5 of the draft.
The bizarre thing is that every mock I saw had Haliburton going in the top 7. I was positive the Spurs were going to take him at 11, and when they didn’t, I was like, please, Vlonty McDivac, don’t fuck this up.
Winning. I go with winning.
Bagley should have stayed at Duke if he wanted to learn how to play basketball.
He isn’t just a negative on D. He has been neutral to negative on offense. ” passed up a bad shot for a good shot” Is a thought Marvin has never had, let alone “pass up a good shot for a great shot”. Also you really need a team player who knows their role with Hali and fox out there, otherwise they don’t improve.
I just don’t think he has NBA level read-and-react skills. He has a harder time taking what the defense is giving.
Now, because he is athletically talented he can still score enough to fool you simply by deciding what he wants to do and doing it come hell or highwater. However, his decide-and-do regardless has allowed defenses to make him inefficient offensively. He is predictable.
As I am writing it I know it sounds all “know when you see it,” immeasurable, BBIQ style analysis but that’s what I see when I watch him. And I don’t know that it is teachable. This isn’t to say he won’t improve through experience at some team BB aspects, just that he may not be wired to read and react at a high end NBA level. He is more Jeff George than Aaron Rogers. Nice spiral but can’t read and anticipate for shit.
Compare that to Fox and Haliburton who can simply react to where defenders move. Fox generally doesn’t decide to spin away from the defender ahead of time, he just responds to the defense as it develops. They generally don’t decide “I am shooting this move” in advance, they just take the floater if the help defense hangs back but pass when the defender cuts them off. Bagley, on the other hand, chooses to do a spin move and then does it, regardless of whether the defender anticipates the move or not.
Anywho, just an observation that has been rattling around in my dome for a while now. Don’t know how well I explained it …
What you said makes perfect sense. I’ll add on to your point about Fox and Haliburton. They tend to seem a step ahead because they understand how to get people out of position and exploit the defense’s mistake. Marvin is more deliberate and premeditated. I think Fox said in an interview how he planned what he wanted to TRY and do, but took what the defense gave him. I think that was the play he almost fell and then drove/juked on Zion when he saw the right side of the lane open up. That is the BBIQ/Read n React Marvin lacks.
Up vote for Jeff George reference. We used to describe him as “million dollar arm, and a 10 cent head” I won’t go that far with Marvin, He is a victim of his own hype, not required to learn the game at any level, too much athletic talent, an extremely poor footwork/balance, and maybe those things are what makes your observations true. at 11 mil a year and an NBA roster spot might be too much cost to continue evaluate/train him much longer.
I prefer winning instead. Yeah, think I’ll go with winning on this one.
The Bagley Dilemma, I think his nickname should be the big dilemma… I have seen glimpses of his improvement when he is in the 4 role..but he cannot hang with big bodies as a 5. Heck Holmes struggles with big bodies. I want this team to win as many games as possible and if that means having Bagley develop slower because minutes are restricted then so be it.. because this winning shit is a lot of fun, especially when I turn off the sound to the broadcast..
The Kings winning is a lot of fun, and I second the mute option for the broadcast.
I’m enjoying the broadcast crew, though I understand why some people don’t. (I am ok with goofiness, and laugh when Doug Christie says things like “THAT’S WHAT HE DO!”)
Recently I’ve gone through the usual League Pass blackouts due to an NBATV game or LA blackout, so I’ve listened to Gary Gerould again and still get a lot of joy listening to him call games.
I really hope the Kings become really good again soon so that Gary Gerould can be a part of it…plus for all the old-timer Kings fans who can’t wait around another decade……for Jerry Reynolds……for all of the young Kings fans, too, because having a winning team as a kid is pretty darned………ah heck, what do I know? They were never good when I was a kid.
The last game had the best broadcast of the year, IMO. DC was notably more quiet than usual. DC also discussed the other teams players in positive terms when they made a good play, you know…just being a color commentator giving his BB opinion on a play, it was nice to hear without all the forced laughter and other silly stuff he does. DC even knew to shut his mouth when Fox was jawing with the Clippers bench and the mics were picking some of it up.
I don’t know how many of you watch non-Kings games, but most team-based broadcasters are just downright awful and they can go an entire game without acknowledging a single play from the opposing team. As much as DC drives me crazy sometimes, I firmly believe our announcing duo is one of the best team-based duos in the NBA.
Summary: The Kings and Whiteside are responsible for Marvin Bagley being one of the worst players in the entire NBA. Probably for the better not to analyze his offensive game at this point.
A portion of our fans (IMHO) seem to have been brainwashed into thinking it takes an entire rookie contract to see what you have in a player. I’m guessing it was a critical narrative for previous front offices to deploy in order to remain employed, and boy has it stuck! I don’t get it, at all. Vlade will fix this, trust me. That was an eye opener for me.
The bigger question might be, are the Kings wasting their time hoping for transformations?
I am still waiting for Skal to transform. IT WILL HAPPEN!
Papagiannis is only 23 years old!
And he’s a starter!!
.
.
.
.
in Greece.
Rese Lightning!
I’m still waiting for Walt Williams to ascend to All-Star status. LOVED me some Wizard.
Short answer, yes.
To back this up just look at the two clips Brenden posted in this article. I know he put them in there to show Marvin’s possible potential as a C with his straight up vertical to contest shots, but I saw something worse in those clips.
In the first Bagley doesn’t bother to chase down Batum and block that shot from behind. With his leaping ability he should have pinned that one to the glass. One might argue he’s was simply positioning himself of a miss and rebound…but he didn’t even get that! Batum got his own rebound.
In the second, Bagley is positioned horribly for the rebound, he’s practically behind the glass. His man, in Tucker comes in for the easy offensive rebound because Bagley didn’t even attempt to box out.
I deleted this from my long post because I’m always in pursuit of brevity, it is what it is…
Just watch Bagley off ball sometime for long periods of time. It’s really something, especially on offense.
Oh I know. Comparing him to Tyrese off ball is like night and day.
Was hoping someone would point this out. Two defensive rebounds missed on the “highlights” above. The following defensive plays wouldn’t have even been necessary if he just cleared the boards.
Shows how important positioning is. I’m not sure how teachable a skill it is, but contrasting with Hali who always seems to be in the right spot, or anticipate the right spot, it seems like Bagley’s path to development will be a long one.
This isn’t always a problem for him, but it often is.
Just remember, we are currently debating which position can get our third-year player to stay on the court for more than 20 minutes a game WHO WAS SELECTED WITH THE HIGHEST PICK THE KINGS HAD IN ABOUT 30 YEARS!
That sure sums up the return on that investment!
(I am not bitter … I am not bitter at all … no really, not bitter … not one bit! 😉 )
I often go back very once and a while and look a the 2018 draft and think where players would be lined up in a re-draft…you know, because I like to get kicked in the balls.
IMO, Bagley is now out of the top 20. There are a number of second round picks that I’d currently take over him.
Yeah, just go to that draft class on BBref and rank it by clicking on stats VORP, BPM, WS, WS48.
Good times!
20?
Check out Chimezie!
This is good
Top 20 would be overrating him at this point. He’s gone through stretches where he is borderline unplayable (though lately he seems ok enough). And what’s really annoying to me is that his rookie season was pretty encouraging!
Overall, maybe this worked out though? If the Kings had taken Luka, they probably trade Fox for Zinger and then they’re basically Dallas and I’m not sure that is actually better than what we’ve got right now. Minus, I guess, having a generational talent to build around (even if people are starting to realize that he is actually Euro-Harden)
No, only morons are comparing Luka to Harden.
There’s about a 10-year age gap between the two.
Harden is what he is at this point.
Luka will own this league once LeBron is gone.
There is a small group of dumbasses still shlubbing around on the old site that are all in agreement that Bagley is our future, and that he is still the correct pick over Luka because he’s not taking the ball out of Fox’s hands.
Warning: Eye Test Data used here
Bagley will have trouble fitting into ANY position in the NBA long-term. Has anybody else observed his center of gravity? Just going off the dreaded Eye Test, he seems to have a very high center of gravity when he runs, plays defense, etc. He bends at the waist before the knees, and looks almost top-heavy much of the time, despite his slim frame. He can’t get low enough to guard 3’s and 2’s on the perimeter, and he can’t brace himself to guard strong 4’s and 5’s in the post. This could also explain his injury history, since he always seems to bend/land/reach/move in an awkward position, especially on defense and in the post.
At least Cartman has a low center of gravity
Good insights.
Completely agree, nice observations. He looks like he is on skates when on defense.
I’ll add that his even his running stride looks off. It’s a very long, gazelle-ish run that doesn’t lend itself to quick changes of direction. He can go pretty fast in a straight line, but I doubt a great Euro-step move is anywhere in his future.
Bagley is not worthy of the 2nd overall pick and we all know what was missed by not taking Doncic.
BUT Bagley has quietly improved in a few areas and worthy of role player/development spot on this team. Is he a star? NO. Can he be a quality role player? YES. His outside shot has improved (to the point where he is taking it too much). His on the ball defense(vs. smaller players) has improved. His rebounding and athleticism are still there. He still needs to work on his help defense, on ball defense vs. bigger players, communication, and passing.
I think we all get stuck in this area where we either keep Bagley or trade him. My thoughts are keep, develop, and give him a warranted (but not bloated) extension of around 10-14 million per year. If he takes it great…if he wants more, let him leave similar to Bogi.
He isn’t a max player and he isn’t a star, but there is definitely a role for a young player with his skill set and abilities. Right now, we are seeing that role play out fairly well. Lots of early minutes at Stretch 4…limited late minutes when it matters. So to answer the question…his best role is as a Stretch 4/limited small ball 5 depending on the situation.
I see a lot of comparisons to Mclemore…and Ben has grown into a competent NBA role player on a winning team. If Bagley does that, it’s worth seeing how it plays out.
Kevin Durant is about the only #2 pick in the draft in recent years to be on a HOF track. Look at Darrell Williams and Jabari Parker, to name two Kings players. Julius Randle (7th in the draft, two picks ahead of Nick Stauskis) is coming into his own with the Knicks this year, in his 6th season. It might take Bagley that long to reach his full potential.
Who, pray tell, is Darrell Williams?
But he isn’t.
Or give that same money to someone who has already developed into a known commodity.
“But he isn’t.”
BUT he could be when the team actually hits its stride in a couple years. As a role player that isn’t too much of a stretch for a 21 year old with the talent that he has shown. [To me] It’s no risk to keep him on the team and give him minutes that would otherwise go to Jabari Parker or Nemanja Bjelica. I honestly believe his role right now is perfect for the team and his development.
“Or give that same money to someone who has already developed into a known commodity.”
Unfortunately, we’ve have seen that play out (albeit with previous regimes). We could mention all the guys from Dedmon, Rondo, Joseph, Hill, etc. I agree in principal with what you’re saying but 10-14 million isn’t that much. If the money is needed to keep Holmes, I’m for it. If that money is used for a “known commodity,” my question would be which known commodities would you prefer at that price, for this team, and why?
If you look at the guys potentially at 10-14 million and put them side by side to Bagley, I think you may see that statement looking differently. You may get Robert Covington but you may also get Jamychal Green, Jeff Green, or Bobby Portis. With Bagley being only 21, more athletic, and already in the system, you might rather have Bagley.
At this point-might as well hold on to Bagley, give him meaningless minutes, and see if he grows into a quality role player. If he doesn’t, 10-14 is easily movable and doesn’t drastically change the franchise.
FWIW-I am not arguing about overpaying Marvin Bagley or if he is actually a starter. If Marvin wants more than role player money, then I think you have to let him walk.
Being total honest, I just don’t see this at all:
I see very brief flashes of competence from Bagley but that’s it. If I’m watching a player and I get excited when he just doesn’t screw up basic plays, then I know I’m grading on a curve. Watching Bagley is grading on a curve. I wish it wasn’t so but if you just watch only him on every possession there is a lack of awareness about what’s happening on the court that I don’t think he’s ever going to learn. It’s an innate skill. So sadly, I haven’t seen much upside and I don’t see a whole that he does or will do that will make him an asset to a winning team.
Also, even if that realizes you pay him $11m next year simply because of his draft spot.
I think its clear that Metu is a superior player to Bagley in the limited minutes I’ve seen him play. If we need to play a big not named Barnes next to Holmes, it should be Metu.
Role player.
With the #2 pick in an absolutely loaded draft that already includes a Top 5 NBA player.
Role player.
Wow.
“He isn’t a max player and he isn’t a star, but there is definitely a role for a young player with his skill set and abilities.”
Does anyone think that Bagley intends to sign an extension for the salary that this kind of player gets?
Pretty good article but disagree with the premise that the Kings need to lose more games to “develop” Bagley at the center position to “see what they have.” Unless your team absolutely sucks you play to win. Even if it, maybe, worked for Philadelphia, losing games to improve your team’s draft position is a fool’s errand. The NBA draft is just too unpredictable. Right now, the Kings would be in first place in the Eastern Conference Southeast Division. In the much tougher west they’re in the play in zone, not a bad place to be for a team that hasn’t been in the playoffs for four presidents. Let Bagley play the 4 this year, let him learn how to defend that position. His 3 point shot is improving. If he comes back stronger next year, he can divide minutes between the 4 and 5. Nothing lost if the team continues to win.
Disagree. Bagley is getting minutes.. he just isn’t doing anything with them other than being a defensive turnstile. At some point the player has to demonstrate he can handle the minutes he is getting and earn more of them. That isn’t happening.
Yep, 6th in both total minutes and minutes per game. The issue is less about getting burn and more about getting burned.
Bagley looking at social media comments on him:
He’s living rent free in all of our heads!
TIME TO PAY RENT, MARVIN!
(hey, this landlord thing is kind of fun. I could get used to this.)
I’m okay with Bagley’s role this year. I think they’ve realized that his development curve is pretty unique. The more defined approach seems to be paying some dividends. I don’t know if teaching him a bunch of different roles at the same time would be all that beneficial to Bagley or the team. It’s important to remember, this stuff is all interconnected. They made it clear during the offseason that they wanted to experiment with 3 guard lineups. Having Whiteside available to patrol the paint theoretically helps those guards be more disruptive. The results have been mixed, but I think it’s important to point out that the Kings are trying to develop 2 young guards in addition to Bagley. Sometimes the various development plans can conflict with one another.
Congrats, De’Aaron!!!
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1358875909898526725
De’Aaron Fox!
*oh, and also Giannis Antetokounmpo
Giannis AntetoWHO?mpo amiright?
If the Bogi trade had gone through, and the Kings had gotten Devincenzo in return, Bagley would be becoming more and more of an afterthought. The team would be even better, and the emphasis would be upon improving the team’s great small ball unit with more depth and interior defense. Investing minutes in a development project like him would be a digression not worth the effort.
one thing I think we as a community could do is try to understand how/why things are going right. It seems clear to me that this team is building something. It may not be a linear trajection, but the line is going up. I don’t think it’s useful to propose trades that reverse their momentum. Imagine if you are a player on this team that has sucked for so long, and you find out Barnes has been traded for future cap space and a fringe asset that may improve the team down the road? Like what’s the point of trying hard if the team doesn’t reward you for your efforts?
There are ways to improve this team in the short and long term. I would really like to see this site explore that. It just always seems, to me, that we get in a rut of talking about what they’re doing wrong (understandable based on their track record) and here’s what we believe will fix things. And the fix is ensuring the team sucks ass in the near-term. I get that sucking ass can lead to obtaining the rights to really good players, but you have to realize the downside of perpetuating a loser mentality over multiple decades.
Isn’t it technically possible to make decisions that help to win now, while also putting this team on a path for sustained success?
I want to make sure my point is clear on this stuff: the writing quality here is top notch, but TKH has failed to embrace the Kings zeitgeist IMO (Fox’s player of the week article notwithstanding). An article about how the coaching staff has bungled Bagley’s development, after the Kings just won 8 of their last 9 games, just kinda seems a bit misplaced. The discussion should be, in my opinion, about what has gone right during this winning streak.
“TKH has failed.”
-RORDOG
“-Wayne Gretzky
-RORDOG”
Eat Shit, TKH!
Rordog
Lol, no I like the articles. I just feel like I’m disagreeing with the premise more now. I don’t want to tell people how to craft a narrative, but I do believe it’s important to consider the possibility that the kings are good (or, slightly better than average) That opens up different avenues of discussion. The most obvious, is what player on a longer term contract could the Kings trade for using Bjelly + Parker’s expiring contracts?
“I’m disagreeing with the premise more now.”
-RORDOG
I don’t know. It seems like there is plenty of gushing over Tyrese this year and now more with Holmes and Fox.
Seems to me that if you perform well and produce, TKH talks about it. If you don’t, TKH talks about it.
That our No. 2 pick’s decline in play is coinciding with a recent uptick in team success seems particularly noteworthy to me, but different strokes I guess!
Also, I take no issue with your interest in more analysis of what is driving the recent success, as that would be welcomed by me too!
50% agree with this sentiment. I do believe we’re bungling Bagley’s development as an organization but also believe TKH and the general fan base may be spending too much time on him specifically. There was a whole write up on him after a WIN in which Randle went off for 26pts, 15rebs, 4 assists (none of them season highs) but nothing after the WIN in which Jokic went for 50pts, 8 rebs, 12 assists on players primarily not Bagley.
I actually think winning now – as in, making the playoffs this year or next – would be extremely helpful for building a long term championship contender.
When my other team that was in a multidecade losing streak – the Buffalo Bills – squeaked into the playoffs in 2017 by dint of unreal luck it sated the fans and the owners and gave the FO some room to maneuver and build for the future without having the pressure of “please just make the damn playoffs for once” driving short-term decisions (like signing Kyle Orton or trading for Shady). No championship yet but it’s looking like things will be good for quite some time.
The sport and circumstances with the Kings are different but getting a playoff berth this year while Monte is still in the honeymoon phase with the fans and ownership would generate the same sort of goodwill without immediate expectations of a repeat the following year. This window doesn’t last forever – getting the 8th seed in 2023 and then missing the playoffs in 2024 probably gets Monte fired – so I say go for that 8th seed now and then start looking to build a contender in the offseason even if that means taking a step back next year.
Grab some Sixers employees tomorrow and ask them how things worked out.
Most of those employees aren’t around anymore though
Um, getting traded is the reward!
100% agree with this sentiment.
Guess I’ll be the lone guy who’s still on bagley island. On another note, kings should take a flyer on mo bamba.
my god, what year is this
Funnily enough, I ask this same question whenever someone suggested drafting, building around, or otherwise doing anything with Marvin Bagley.
You should check out the smoldering embers of STR sometime … a merry band of dipshits who get together after every game and talk about The Future, Marvin Bagley.
I’m crapping you negative, one guy actually said for some reason Bagley is only playing 22 minutes because management is holding him back.
I mean … ?
It’s 2021.
Do I get a Nostradumbass point for the correct answer, Aykis?
Yeah, no … Bagley sucks.
Maybe Hasheem Thabeet is still available?
Thabeet. Really? What an absurd comment. I haven’t checked but I bet Jimmers stats are closer in correlation to Doncic’s than Thabeets to Bagley’s.
Bagley will suck forever? Bagley’s played less than one year of nba ball based on his minutes. Thabeet has played enough that we know what he is. Bagley is still a lotto ticket at this point. Kings fans just want to wash their hands of this guy because the mavs scratched their ticket and won the jackpot. Can we wait and see if we won 10 or 20 bucks at least instead of trashing the ticket?
Is Bagley worse than Christian Wood at 21? I know he’s more expensive.
Is he? I only remember Woods as the dude that killed us this year.
To answer your question. NO. Christian Wood was averaging 2.7 pts, and 2.2 rebounds when he was 21. And that is exactly why it’s absurd to make sweeping judgments on players (specifically post players) when they’re that young and lean.
Reply fail. that was supposed to be to Hamlet.
Yes and no. I didn’t watch Wood when he was 21 but it is entirely possible that even though he was getting limited minutes, he was showing the ability to play team offense and team defense, with a decent BBIQ, things Bagley has yet to demonstrate.
If you compare the #s, they aren’t really comparable. Bagley has been far superior through his first seasons, and he’s younger. Hard to know where he’ll go from here, and they are gonna be in a tough spot deciding on an extension for him next year if he doesn’t make a leap, but there’s still potential there. He’s developing as a shooter and passer. If he can make progress on defense, and continue cutting down on his turn-overs, then what? It’s gonna come down to the money.
Um, yeah … Christian Wood is (was before the ankle) averaging 20-10. I wouldn’t blink if Houston wanted to trade.
I like where the Kings have been going with Bagley–less is more. If he works hard and sheds the I’m a star mind set, he can be worth keeping around, despite the high cost. I still think there is time for patience (the Ben McClemore comp is way too harsh.)
The irony is he will never be any good until he limits his focus to just becoming a good role player first. (He should be begging to come off the bench so he can face weaker players and make a bigger impact.)
I don’t get the four or five talk. I think eventually he can be a valuable small ball five for limited minutes, but he has a few years of hard work before that. Right now he can’t even handle the four.
Why are you so caught up on a positional label which means nothing. There’s been a ton of mistakes made by teams because of the in between characterization which is irrelevant. I was pulling my hair out when Donovan Mitchell was in the draft and analyst kept saying he didn’t have a position. There’s many many more examples of this archaic thinking. Worry about Bagley improving his defense, shooting, basketball IQ and if those things happen, the Kings will have a nice player who can simply play and contribute to winning.
Agree with what RORDOG said regarding the timing of this article. Having just worked our way into playoff position, beating a few good teams on the way, now is the time for experimentation?? Because it seems to me that the coaching staff has finally found a rotation that can be competitive for more than two weeks in a row and win several games. I’d say now is the time to see if there is real substance to this or if it’s just some hot streak that will cool off. Experimentation is what you do when nothing else works.
Late in the preseason, while most people here seemed intent on tanking for an entire season, I speculated about whether last season was the anomaly (even though we were tied for 9th in the conference with 8 games to play and a real chance at the playoffs heading into the bubble). There were several injuries and bad luck, bad timing, a new coach, and Dedmon turned out to be an awful signing. Perhaps expectations for this year’s team should be set closer to the 39-win team of 2018-19?
As nice as it could be to add Cade Cunningham to this squad, losing is no guarantee, it’s still a gamble. I think you need to let the players and coaches compete as best as they can for wins. If you are 100% certain that team has no chance of even competing after you’ve played 60-70% of the season, then sure, throw in the towel, start experimenting, emphasize development, stretch players to see if they can excel in different roles, aim for a better draft position, and see if Bagley can figure out how to defend the middle.
The 98-99 Kings team didn’t have high expectations from what I can remember. They gave up the most points in the league, they couldn’t shoot FTs or the 3, and they were one game below .500 with five to play. But letting that team compete for a playoff spot ushered in the greatest era of Kings basketball. That’s what we should do with this team.
Marvin Bagley is the only one holding Marvin Bagley back.
What position does Kevin Durant play?
Come on, man … it’s time for the team, the media and the fans to stop making excuses for this guy.
Why do you think they signed Whiteside in the first place?
Marvin will become great when Marvin decides to become great … but not one second before then.
Deciding to become great will have nothing to do w/MB3 becoming great. MB3’s offense & defense will actually have to be great for him to become great. He’ll need significant defensive improvement & plenty of offensive improvement to become great. Truthfully, I think he’ll be good at best.
I would hope that putting in the necessary work to become great on offense and defense was implied, but … OK.
You win the Semantics Award of the Night!
Durant? He’s been a SF parameter player his whole career. Only recently has he been dabbled in as a PF. And guess what? The Sonics made a concerted effort to get him minutes, and opportunity. They traded away Ray Allen, AND gave 2100 minutes in his rookie season (2884 mins his 2nd season). Bagley has 2474 to date. This is all despite Durant having a 43% FG shooting and 28% 3pt his first year. The player needs to put in the effort for development but so does the team.
I appreciate the lukewarm commitment to developing Bagley from the article. The hate, yes, the hate and bitterness, and general trolling from the comment section here, on FB, twitter, etc, is why I hope we move on from Bagley, and give him a chance to realize his potential somewhere else. It’s not a healthy environment to groom a 21 year old big man.
These criticisms make you look like a complete idiot that’s never played a meaningful minute of competitive basketball in your life: “Bagley doesn’t know how to play basketball, Bagley doesn’t have any BBIQ Bagley doesn’t have skills.” Complete ignorant nonsense from a basketball perspective. It’s very similar to High School Joe who thinks he knows the best way to respond to COVID. The similarity is uncanny.
These are just bittery bitchey takes with nothing of substance to those who truly know basketball. You may THINK you know basketball by watching it, but you’ll never know it like someone whose played it or coached it at a high level. Never. That doesn’t mean you can’t find valid deficiencies in his game, as a non-playing, non-coaching observer, but it does mean you don’t know what the F#@% you’re talking about when lobbying that trolling garbage.
“Bagley mixes and crosses his feet” a completely valid criticism. I feel like I’m seeing improvement in this area but I’m still seeing it time to time…if less often.
“Bagley doesn’t understand the proper methods of pick and roll defense” from the article. It’s at least a constructive criticism. I’d disagree with the sentiment as there’s really only 2 ways to play it: Jam the ball handler, and then retreat to rolling player(a tactic you may imploy against a top notch outside shooter and someone you want to get the ball AWAY from) OR as the screen is set, Bagley can drop and get depth allowing the teammate guard the space to fight through the screen whilst also offering help support in case the guard drives. This last one seems to be the tactic that the coaches are teaching Bagley, and he’s actually quite competent at it.
“Bagley is selfish and kills the offense” This one is outdated, and I thought was a bit overblown from the beginning but he’s shown great strides in finding shots within the offense. Passing when needed attacking when needed.
“Bagley is bad at defense” While general, this one is fairly true, but there have been improvements. There’s been improvements in his stance, there’ve been improvements in his grit, taking some pounding to the chest against some bigger guys, holding, and then contesting the shot. There’ve been improvements in off ball awareness. There’ve been improvements on defending the pick and roll and sliding feet. I am seeing some occasional relapses to poor habits but also seeing growth.
It’s just crazy to me to see the toxic negative sludge tossed at a 21 year old big man, with plenty of opportunity to grow and improve if given the chance…
I’ve watched basketball since the early 1970s. With all due respect, you can recognize whether a player demonstrates the ability to play at an NBA level. So far, Bagley hasn’t, and many of the criticisms of his play that you ridicule here are valid.
I’m with you on the take that bagley needs to go somewhere else to develop. Maybe he’ll have the whiteside route and do the g league and come back to the nba. I still want the kings to get a first for him or a young and equally miscast guy on another team.
I don’t think you needed to go so far as to say people have ignorant and bitchy takes though. Remember, we’re all fans of the same team. Not trying to single you out or anything, but the comment section in the last several articles have me wanting to just read the article and skip out on the comments.
In any case, have a great day.
Marvin Bagley is a poor mans James Wiseman. The special thing about wiseman though is his wingspan and height. Other than that they look like the same players and both look soft
In my opinion, I just hope he bulks up and improve shooting 3s. He may end up like a Raef LaFrentz type of player. A stretch 4 or 5 that can rebound with less D but more athletic. For comparison is LaFrentz is a top 3 pick. Having a stretch big may become handy if Fox continues to play at this level since defenses may soon collapse harder on him.
Luke Walton, ensuring the Kings just miss the playoffs and end up with the #14 pick. Pure genius as always Kings. We’re approaching a dangerous point of no return…here’s to praying for playoffs I guess.
Badge Legend