The Kings will trade Buddy Hield this offseason, or at least that seems to be the accepted assumption among Kigns fans. Buddy was unhappy with his role this past season, Buddy’s production slipped, and his new contract kicks in for the upcoming season. Fans are frustrated with Buddy, and Buddy is frustrated with the Kings. It seems only natural that Buddy could be moved, especially if the Kings begin to rebuild under a new GM.
But it would be a huge mistake to sell low on Hield this summer.
It’s easy to forget that a year ago there was a contingent of fans saying Vlade should just cave and give Buddy Hield the $100 million contract he was seeking. At the time of Buddy’s extension (at a number under $100 million), it was praised as a pretty good deal. That praise wasn’t just from local media, either.
One down season, and suddenly that same contract is viewed like some sort of albatross. Don’t get me wrong, it isn’t a great contract, especially if the cap goes down as a result of COVID impacting league revenues. But Buddy’s contract declines year over year, and pays a premium salary for one of the league’s premier shooters.
And that brings us to the biggest reason not to trade Buddy Hield for pennies on the dollar: he remains one of the league’s premier three point shooters. It’s easy to forget this when watching Buddy turn the ball over and when watching Luke Walton run an offense that has Buddy trying to create off the dribble, but Buddy is a great shooter.
In what we all agree was a down year for Hield, he still shot 39.4% from 3 on 9.6 attempts per game. On a per game basis, Buddy is third in the league in made threes. If we look at totals, Buddy made more three pointers this season than anyone other than James Harden. And this is in a down year for Buddy.
Buddy’s game has serious flaws, no doubt about it. But Buddy Hield is one of the league’s best three point shooters. We shouldn’t let our evaluation of him be clouded simply because Luke Walton used him poorly all year. Buddy is elite at one of the most sought-after skills in the NBA.
If the right deal comes along, Buddy is hardly an untouchable player. I’m not suggesting that the Kings can’t trade Buddy under any circumstances. And there is naturally a risk to keeping Buddy another year considering the Kings seem hellbent on keeping Luke Walton.
All I’m saying is that if the Kings trade Buddy Hield, they better make sure they get something decent in return. Because if Buddy lands with a competent coach he’s going to bounce right back and remind everyone how good he can be when used correctly.
Maybe sell low on the coach that misused the player rather than on the player misused by the coach.
But Luke’s job is safe for … reasons.
I agree in principle.
But Hield has shown in the past to be outspoken and complain loudly about lack of respect and such. There could be a situation where it might be better to get rid of him soon, before he forcibly lessens his trade value.
I really don’t blame Buddy for being outspoken regarding the coaching change. I mean, he’s no worse than what we do on a daily basis.
He’s being paid to be a professional by the organization he complains about. We are not.
Professionals are known to call out points of failure in their profession. And if the immediate supervisor isn’t listening they will definitely go above the supervisor. Especially when they are elite professionals in their field. And if they aren’t listening to the professional at the above level, I guarantee there are plenty of professionals who will bend the ear of any co-worker willing to listen. Some of Buddy’s co-workers happen to be media members.
Do I like when he does it? Not really.
Do I understand it? This season, definitely.
you can be outspoken and not make it disrespectful. It’s definitely possible.
It’s possible. But Hield showed that he can’t:
It’s not frustrated, I’m just speaking to my heart, Hield said. I feel like people get mixed up with being frustrated. I’m just speaking what I believe and what I think. Like I said, there are 30 teams out there. If they don’t want to give me what I think I deserve, some team will give it to me. They’ll have the ability to match, or they’ll have the ability to let me go.
Name one big free agent that came to Sacramento, Hield said in the scrum. I’ve been here three years trying to grow the program, grow the organization, and I feel like I could be rewarded close to that. But that’s just me. That’s my gut feeling.
I see it like an insult, Hield said. I feel like I’m worth more than that. If you say I’m your guy and you want to build around me, I just need you to show it. Actions speak louder than words. If you’re just talking and not showing nothing, I’m not going to respect it. I love playing here. I want to be here. This is my home. I’m trying to buy a house here, but everything is on stall mode because I don’t know if they’ll really commit to me.
We’re gonna sit here and bitch about how Vivek runs this team from a fantasy basketball, armchair GM standpoint, then criticize a player when they speak “their mind” when they feel the need to speak from a place of honesty (not frustration, allegedly) when asked by media about their contract negotiations?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding but you’re telling me he’s being disloyal or whatever and needs to be quiet, rather than reflecting the environment he’s currently a part of?
I’ll reiterate, I wasn’t a big fan of it then and still would prefer he take the high road (and learn how to dribble / pass if his coach is going to MAKE him do it) but professionals come in all shapes and sizes and my opinion is the best ones demand accountability out of themselves and the people around them. In the quote above Buddy hasn’t said anything that’s not accurate.
For me, Buddy’s behavior is an indication that he’s not holding himself accountable. I’m almost getting tired of the narrative that Buddy is this innocent bystander who’s simply being misused. He’s a walking brain fart that thinks he’s an all star. His attitude, in my opinion. stems from not wanting to be the guy that just runs around trying to get open for three, while also failing at being something more than that.
Possibly.
I believe Buddy overvalues himself. He should, to a point. I also believe Buddy has to look out for himself, just like every other player in the league. When dealing with bonehead management I can’t fault a player for speaking out. Do I want to have to hear this kind of shit every other week? Obviously not. But considering who he has to deal with for a boss (which I don’t think can be overstated at this point,) I’m not going to judge him too harshly considering there’s plenty other stars in the league who are as bad or worse, whether deservedly so or not.
What I will say is the Kings had a nice thing going 2 seasons ago with Fox and Hield and I’d like to see that develop into something. Unfortunately that’s not going to happen with Walton, he’s just not smart enough. At the end of the day I’d just like to see the Kings make intelligent basketball decisions, and I don’t believe selling low on Buddy Hield is a smart move in any way.
He’s an employee. Employees have frustrations and misgivings all the time. There are ways to express them. The way Hield did is not a good way and is indicative of matters that RORDOG laid it very clearly here above.
His trade value could hardly be lower than now, no matter what he might say.
I don’t think his trade value is any lower now than it was before the season. Pre-extension it was higher because he was cheaper and the team would have control over that extension decision. But everybody in the league knows what Buddy is. I don’t think this season changed any perceptions of Hield outside the world of Kings fans. He’s still a reliable elite shooting specialist with a high motor.
I don’t believe for a second that there isn’t a team that wouldn’t have been thrilled to have Hield for four years under his current contract in July of 2019.
You remember, before legacy hire got his hooks into him.
I don’t think the people that would have been thrilled in July of 2019 would be any less thrilled today.
Let’s see what happens if he becomes very vocal about his discontent, and perhaps states that he deserves to be a starter. You won’t convince me that it will not influence his trade value.
I think we’d have to try to define what selling low would mean. I think everybody in the league knows that Hield is an elite shooter (though that’s not as rare as we tend to think these days. This season 18 players shot at least as well as Buddy on 5 or more 3s per game.). The question is what is that worth. The Heat got it in a UDFA. The Wizards paid 2/14. The Jazz paid 4/70-something. The Kings 4/86. The Pels paid 2/26.
I think it is worth Victor Oladipo.
And Shirley I’m serious.
And don’t call me Shirley!
This is why I don’t necessarily begrudge Walton for at least attempting to find out if Buddy could add to his game his season. “Premier three point shooter” just doesn’t have the value people think it does if the player doesn’t bring other valuable skills to the table.
So Vlade signs the bad contract. And Luke tries to justify the bad contract. Sounds like a plan!
Uh I’m pretty sure developing a player so they provide excess value to contract is every team’s goal.
Yeah I just think it was an overpay to begin with. And they failed at that goal miserably by making it even more of an overpay. Adding skills is fine, but it seemed to take away from what made Buddy almost worth that contract in the first place.
He still made nearly 4 3s a game (good for 3rd in the NBA and more than he made in 2018-19) on over 39% a game. He got his contract because of his shooting. He was still an elite shooter in 2019-20. I think Kings fans are a little too close to this. Buddy’s 3pt shooting wasn’t meaningfully worse this season, and in some ways it was better. I really don’t think Buddy’s perception around the league changed at all this season.
Yeah I don’t think his perception changed much either. But I don’t think another year under Walton will help.
I’d like to get rid of Walton and would be fine keeping Buddy. Again he is just another player I think has value around the league to accumulate prospects/draft picks. Which I don’t think we have a lot of.
Yeah, I’m all for moving Buddy in a good deal.
okay? I said I don’t begrudge the coach for trying. There’s nothing in my original statement about the decision to sign Buddy to that contract. Also, everybody seems to forget that the plan actually worked once Walton made the decision to move Buddy to the bench. Buddy’s USG%, AST% and TS% all went up, and his TOV% went down as a reserve.
I don’t begrudge the coach for trying. I begrudge him for continuing to make it a focal point once it was clear to everyone it just wasn’t working.
It did work better once he went to the bench, which again somewhat shows the value to contract to be negative.
It would be pretty Kangzy for them to back a horrible coach over a player like Hield.
I think they should make preliminary calls to move Buddy, but like you say it can’t be for just anyone. It would be nice to get another creator to help Fox and Bogdanovic out.
I’d love someone like LeVert, but the Nets would have to send salary with him. We’d most likely have to take on DAJ, though I’d rather have Prince or Temple.
What’s selling low? Trading Buddy for Al Horford?
If that comes with other assets, and I mean something/someone valuable, you have to weigh everything.
When you’re going head-first into the tank, you have to consider everything, even if only to dismiss it.
Do not trade for Horford. That contract is Philly’s problem, not ours.
Not. We have plenty of other problems. The solutions to some of those may theoretically include trading for Horford.
Yup. Horford SHOULD come with some very nice collection of assets. Kings could pull a Hinkie and twists Philly’s arm into a nice asset grab for eating Horford’s deal.
The Kings already entered the “Trust the Process” story once and it wasn’t good for us. That book is still being written. If Philly can pull out of their financial mess, good for them, but I don’t want to enter that book again to bail them out. Sorry.
I disagree with your #1. Some of the key players from Hinkie’s tenure are still on the team and they are still trying to win a championship with that core. One of them is even nicknamed “the process”. The fans and the organization are still living that book. As for your point #3, I doubt the Kings would pull off your ideal trade. The more likely result would be a trade that benefits the 76ers by giving ridding themselves of the Horford contract and receiving a really good shooter in his prime. All of the sudden that closing window for the 76ers would be fully reopened and we would be looking at a 76ers Celtics rivalry, #1 and #2 in the eastern conference, for the next 3 years. No thank you. Hang up of the phone.
IMO you’re WAY too concerned about what the deal does for the 76ers and not nearly concerned enough about what it does for the Kings.
And they certainly aren’t “The Process” anymore. The process died with Hinkie. They haven’t be doing anything that reflects the strategies that characterized The Process. If anything, they’re in the shitty unauthorized, ill-conceived spin-off to The Process written and produced by entirely different people using some of the same characters because the studio owned the rights. These Sixers are the Scarlett of the NBA. It’s fanfic without the imagination.
IMO you are not concerned enough about how bad that Horford contact is. No respectable NBA franchise would trade for Horford’s contract. Sorry.
The Warriors traded for Wiggins contract. The Thunder traded for Paul’s and the Rockets for Westbrook’s. The Thunder also traded for Gallinari’s. The Jazz traded for Conley’s. The Raptor’s traded for Gasol’s. The Clippers traded for Gallinari and the Nuggets traded for Millsap. All of these contracts are comparable or worst than Horford’s and those are pretty respectable NBA franchises in my opinion.
*Worse.
I’m just kind of meh on Horford. I just think his production could fall off a cliff at any moment, and it showed signs last season.
It depends what we could get back with him obviously, but anything less than two of: #21 pick this year, Thybulle, 2021 PHI 1st, 2022 PHI 1st… and I’m not really excited about it.
It ties up a lot of money for the next 2 seasons and then $14M in the third year is guaranteed. I just think we could maybe get a little more for a bad contract.
So basically Buddy for Horford, #21, and 2022 Philly 1st… I’m listening. Less than that, I’m exploring other bad contracts to take on.
Agreed. As with all ideas, it’s all about the return.
That said, while as you say he’s at a point where he could fall off a cliff at any moment, as of today he makes the Kings better.
Well, yeah. Low bar approved 😉
Wiggins was 25 when they made that trade. Gasol had a year and a half left on his contract. Conley had two. Gallinari and Milsap were signed as free agents at three years, not four. None of these are at all anywhere as bad as signing 34 year old Al Horford at 4 years/109.
Agree 100%.
Give Hield time to get his legs back under him, stop pretending that he’s a combo guard, and if the time comes where he’s his old self, decisions can be made as to whether he fits into the long-term plan, assuming that such a thing ever comes to be.
Will this happen under Lose Walton?
By the time that legacy-shit-for-brains is done with him, we’ll trade Hield to a team that agrees to stock the soda machine in the locker room.
I’ll just post my favorite trade again here:
Fox+Buddy+Parker to NYK for Robinson+Portis+Ntilikina+Gibson+Pick #8 2020+2021 NYK unprotected 1st.
This team has a limited ceiling. We’re not getting a 2nd or 3rd star anytime soon (thanks Vlade!) So we’re wasting prime years of good players like De’Aaron and Buddy. If we want to contend sometime this decade (likely really contend)… get a good GM in here (Hinkie!) and let him stockpile high-end draft assets in 2021 and 2022. That’s where we get our alpha star to take us to the promised land.
I’d argue we haven’t wasted anything of Fox’s prime because he’s 2-3 years from it.
The only thing about Fox is we’re going to have to pay him ~$30M starting in 2021. Are we comfortable with that? I think he’s really good, and he will get better. I just don’t know if he’s the type of guy you give that much money to as a #1 option on a contending team.
And by the time we get around to getting him supporting star players (which will have to come in the draft), they might not be peaking together and our window to compete is smaller.
Players with extreme athleticism like Fox don’t tend to last very long. I keep fearing his career arc might be similar to John Wall. Which isn’t terrible. But where are we getting Beal and Otto Porter from?
From the fairy dust in Neverland. It’s a magical mystical place that never grows old!
We’ll need some of that fairy dust for Fox. By the time we put a good roster around him he’ll be on his 3rd max extension and on the tail end of an all-star career.
Kinda why I think it would best to reset this thing. Vlade caused us to miss our window with this group.
Are you, by chance, a Knicks fan?
Nope. I think there’s an excellent chance that Robinson plus that (possibly top 5) Knicks pick in 2021 will outperform Fox from this point on. Plus another pick this year (Halliburton please!) Portis and Gibson are expiring salary than can be flipped at deadline or just use that money currently applied to Hield to take on other assets for more picks.
Actually, yes. You caught me. I just get so excited thinking about all the championships we are going to win with the core pieces of Fox, Hield, and Randle. Once Knox and Barrett develop into the beasts that they are, whoo boy! Watch out Bucks and Warriors!
Confirmed! AirmaxPG is actually Scott Perry!
Shhh… don’t tell Vivek I’m actually lobbying for the Kings job just so I can ship off Fox and Buddy to my beloved Knicks. We’ll have the best 40-win backcourt duo in the league!
Haha, an unpopular trade apparently…
Just curious. Does anyone think we can get more for Fox? Or do we just not want to consider trading him?
I don’t think it’s that crazy. If NY was willing to part with the #8, next year’s pick and Robinson in a Fox package, the Kings should give it consideration. I think it would come down to who is there at #8.
As I’ve mentioned, I’d be more interested in this years 27 plus another future pick (in addition to the 2021 pick) than this year’s #8.
Though maybe you take the #8 then move the #12 for additional assets.
It would depend on who was there at #8 and if the new GM has enough desire for that player, but yes, you could possible package the #8 and #12 into something greater. The real value is that 2021 pick.
I think I’ve beaten this horse enough, but many of my favorite options in this draft are projected to be late-1st, early-2nd types.
You could probably target those guys with the treasure trove of 2nds Vlade acquired. It wonder if it’s possible to trade into the late 1st round by offering up a couple of 2nds from this year or next. Those late first rounders are going to capped out contenders. They may prefer the unguaranteed 2nds in exchange.
Maybe, there are always different ways to get there. Just like in 2017, I wanted Giles late in the round (which happened), but I wanted to get there by taking on some Blazer salary rather than trading down (because I thought the #10 was towards the end of a talent tier and, thus, they should hold onto it.
Well judging by some people’s evaluation of Fox, we should be able to get the #27, the #8, and the unprotected 1st next year plus Mitchell Robinson no problem.
I think they have to consider it. They’re a sub.-500 team that’s a lot more than a #12 pick and some development away from contention, and he’s bearing down on a 30MM per year pay day.
I do not want to consider trading him.
Fair enough. I’m just coming around to the idea because I think we may have missed a window to contend by adding a 2nd star in 2018. I’m skeptical of the ceiling on a Fox+Bagley core. (Even with peripheral players like Buddy and Barnes). I think in today’s NBA the two most important skills I want out of my point guard are shooting and playmaking. And I’m not convinced that Fox is the type of player that will be worth $30M/year. I think we can tear this thing down while we have young talent that doesn’t mesh all that well… and really hit the 2021 draft hard with hopefully multiple high lottery picks.
But we can agree to disagree.
I don’t think they necessarily NEED to trade Fox. I think there are other potential routes to success. I’m just open to the idea, assuming the return is something staggering.
Agreed.
But I will add that I consider a likely top 5 pick in next years draft to be very valuable. And no other player on our roster will fetch that return. Two picks in the top 5 for us that year would be staggering in my opinion. That’s the type of foundation that could contend for a decade.
Add in a player like Mitchell Robinson and I think I would define that as a pretty staggering return for a player that will fetch the type of money Fox will after just one more season of rookie scale.
Yup, Robinson and two top 5 picks in 2021 is a quick way to rebuild. Not to mention Bagley may still turn into a solid NBA player.
I do not envision Bagley being part of a core either. He has too much to prove in too little time. Based on what we’ve seen, I think he’ll get his 25 and 10, but with zero assists, no defense, bad defensive rebounding, black hole on offense. All that would be good for Bagley, earning him a lucrative 2nd contract but it would be bad for the team that resigns him, and maybe also bad for the team that develops him.
IF the Kings were to go for a full one-year rebuild, the best path for Bagley is probably to play him 36 minutes a game next year, let him get his 18/9 stats on a bad team, then move him next offseason. Unlike Hield, I imagine trying to trade Bagley now wouldn’t be worth the return we’d get.
As for point guards, I think the Kings can get where you want by having two point guards on the floor at all times. (ie., Fox and Bogdan, backed up by Joseph and an interesting rookie pg). Hield rotates with the forwards. Barnes can slide to the 4 at times. If you are concerned about the luxury tax, everything looks better when you do not see Bagley as part of the core.
I see where you are coming from. I still just think even if everyone is used correctly this is still a 40 win team. We may just disagree on that fundamental point.
I agree. Buddy also has a high motor which makes me believe he will be good all 4 years of his contract. Financially, either his contract or the Barnes’ contract can be moved later if necessary, partly because there are slim chances the Kings will resign Bagley. Everyone will remember the better version of Buddy Hield when he is used correctly, as a forward and/or with a facilitating big man like Giles.
I am legitimately puzzled by this entire paragraph.
That’s because you are two steps behind.
I think the Kings should trade Buddy and blame you, Greg. That way you can add Buddy’s trade value to your list of ruination.
I imagine this as you (as Chris Walken) talking to Greg (as Vince Vaughn) in Wedding Crashers saying “Buddy isn’t just another notch on your belt.”
“Ruination” is a word I can hear, and see, Mr. Walken using.
In the interest of figuring out what “selling low” would look like, what do people think Hield is worth in the simplest trade terms. Like, what 2020 pick do you think is fair value in a straight Hield-for-pick trade? Or what one player, not considering team context, would Hield on his contract be equal in value to on their contract?
Mid to late teens. Better than Belinelli but more expensive.
Myles Turner, give or take a 2nd rounder or two?
I’d do a Myles Turner trade, but I don’t think the Pacers want another guard. They’d only want him if they move Oladipo. Maybe there is a three team deal out there?
Buddy to Indy, Turner to Kings, Oladipo to….
On a side note, I’d happily take Goga off their hands.
Just wait until next year Luke makes Buddy the starting PG or SF. NBA 3.0!
The new GM has a tough decision to make, and I think it all comes down to Bogi. If they intend to re-sign him at all costs, then move Buddy. If Bogi is is not the priority then I think you have to hang onto Buddy, and be prepared to let Bogi walk for nothing or get pennies on the dollar in a sign and trade.
I don’t think any reasonable GM is going to want to tie up big money to two players in their prime who excel at the same position. Tying up in what will be close to $40M per year in two shooting guards approaching 30 is a non-starter in my mind.
Now, in terms of asset and roster management, I think you pay for a cheaper Bogi (who in my mind is the better all around player) and you move Buddy. Bogi is also likely to be under market value due to Covid.
IMO, the next GM should only keep one of either Bogi or Buddy.
But given that BoBo will need to be re-signed or lost for no return, and Hield’s value is rock-bottom, in order to create your best opportunity to move one of them, you’ll have to give Buddy the opportunity to play himself back to having better value. The team, assuming it signs BoBo, is going to have to carry both of them until one can be moved for someone of use.
But wouldn’t they then still have depressed value because any team you are trading with would have leverage knowing you might need to move one of them.
The other problem there is giving Buddy the opportunity to play himself into better value. Walton is still coaching the team, which may mean we see Buddy used the same way next year.
You’re never at a disadvantage in a negotiation when you’re the one holding high-value assets. They don’t have to trade either of them. There are worse things than having strong backups, and in a small-ball lineup, it’s very easy to have them on the floor at the same time.
Long-term, it makes sense to move one of them, but whether that happens in the next twelve months, or 12-30 months, assuming that Hield plays back to high-value, the Kings don’t have to settle for being taken in a trade. Ownership can well afford to carry both until that time comes.
I think it is fine to currently have both of them on the roster, but that is also because of their contracts. The Kings just paid them a combined $15M but keeping both is gonna be in the ballpark of $40M.
I do agree that you can move one down the road, maybe even a year from now, but not to sure about your idea that ownership can well afford to carry both until that comes.
If they keep Buddy, Bogi, and extend Fox, they are capped out. There would be room for an MLE and minimums, and that’s about it. That would mean not Bazemore, Len, and/or Giles returning. Do you think a new GM would be willing to do that?
This is my issue Adam: How we can expect them to compete if they can’t financially keep Buddy, Bogi and De’Aaron?
They CAN afford them. The question is if they want to. Or if they can afford them AND improve the team.
This is way too sophisticated to assume the Kings could actually pull this off, BHE.
I’m going to hold out hope until I know who the new FO is.
Hope and the Sacramento Kings is a very bad mixture. Like nitroglycerin, but actually dangerous.
That’s the thing, I don’t think they can afford them AND improve the team. The Kings would basically be going into a 3rd season with the same core, only a lot more expensive. That core, right now is looking like a basement dweller in the stacked west.
They’d be capped out with a core of Fox, Buddy, Bogi, Barnes, Bagley, Holmes, Joseph, Nemanja. That’s basically the same rotation as this past season, plus a possible 4 draft picks.
So the question is, do the Kings pay these guys more and expect their game to improve as currently constructed, or pay only one of your SGs and look to improve the roster elsewhere.
Or neither and acquire some one to fill that position somewhere in the process.
As I’ve mentioned, if I were really going all out, assuming I could get fair value, I’d probably trade Hield this offseason. Match Bogie’s offers, then see where we are with Bogdan’s value next deadline/offseason. I think there’s a decent chance Bogdan’s potentially COVID-depressed deal starts to look like a REAL value next offseason when the Cap likely jumps back up and the FA market is packed with elite players.
I agree. Move Buddy, match for Bogi’s depressed deal, assess the roster from there. That provides the most flexibility going forward for a new GM.
The team is in teardown mode, so you nurture the few assets you have, move them when the right offer eventually comes, and if the rest of the roster consists of guys that can fog a mirror, how is that bad for your tank season?
Further, I have no concerns about people worth between 8-11 figures getting stuck with a luxury tax bill. You wanted a piece of this thing, this is the cost.
You know there’s another furlough? They will do anything to avoid the luxury tax.
Bye Buddy, welcome Cash Considerations!
The team is not in teardown mode. It’s just something you are advocating.
I’m curious what you believe the plan should be? What’s the ceiling for the current core?
Okay Rordog. To answer your question, personally, I think the plan should be to stay competitive. No tanking. I think the Kings should surround Fox with good basketball players. I think the Kings should resign Bogi, try to resign Giles, and keep Bjelica on the last year of his contract. I think the Kings should always have two PGs on the court and have Hield come off the bench, rotating with the forwards, which works because Barnes can slide to the 4 at times. I think the Kings should not envision Bagley as part of its core and should consider trading him for one or two players who fit a new team identity: skilled, team players who compete on both ends of the floor. Draft players this year who will help the team now and might have a little more upside to them. If a player who fits that description is a projected 2nd rounder (like Xavier Tillman IMO), don’t flinch at drafting him at #12. Just get him. Don’t make trades for the sake of making trades. Don’t get desperate. Be a respectable franchise. Keep improving. Be a team that no-one wants to play against. The ceiling for a team with that plan (or core) would be a team that makes the playoffs every year for the next decade like the Atlanta Hawks from 2008 to 2017, which is not bad for a small market team. Their 2021 draft pick should also be a contributor.
It’s a decent plan. It just looks like a plan to spend the next decade in the 10th-12th seed range to me. IMO, the only way that plan works out is if the Kings find a Giannis/Kahwi style mid-round gem in the draft. And I’m not sure hoping for an outlier is a smart strategy.
The west is old. A lot of the main players on a lot of teams are already slowing down. I mean, top to bottom, the west is good, but any team that gets their s*&# together can make the playoffs. It’s not as insurmountable as you think.
Any GM that would make a decision about Hield/Bogdan based on whether they can keep Bazemore and Len (they aren’t going to have much control over keeping Giles) shouldn’t have a job.
I feel like I stepped away for a couple of days and came back to Bizarro Kangz land. Buddy Hield SHOULD be frustrated. Fans SHOULD be frustrated, but not with Buddy. They should be frustrated with an ownership who insists on keeping a coach who has no idea how to use his players, no idea how to game plan, draw up plays or strategize in game-time situations. Kenny Natt (hell, Kenny Gnat) with a hangover could out coach Walton. There’s really no redeemable quality to Walton’s coaching, whatsoever.
The Kings would do themselves a favor by retaining Buddy and trading Walton for a washing machine, a pair of socks, a used tire, or a handful of used toilet paper.
Like the “Hire Hinkie” stuff, why in the hell are we even having these discussions. Just….Ugh.
Wouldn’t there be playoffs and harmony in Bizzaro Kangz land?
Congrats! You’ve fired Walton. You’re back to being a 35-40 win team instead of a 30-35 win team. What would you like to do next?
Who’s to
say how many wins when we have no idea who the coach may be? Conjecture and all, why not a 50 win team? You know, cuz in Bizarro Kangz world we hired Hinkie.
I guess since Vivek has yet to do anything right from a basketball ops standpoint I can basically assume Hinkie is the next GM. Bizarro world, here we come…
Because they don’t have the talent to be a 50 win team. A coach can only do so much. Pop would struggle to get this roster to .500.
So let’s keep Walton and build a solid roster for him. We could start by getting LeBron James or Anthony D…. oh, wait….
I never said they should keep Walton. Just that Walton is only one of their limiting factors.
So you’re saying if we fire Walton “we’re back to a 35-40 win team.”
So we should keep him, got it.
But he’s “one of the limiting factors.” So we should fire him, got it. Its all so clear to me now…
Under Joerger, we were a 35-40 win team. Under Walton, we are a 30-35 win team. Thus removing Walton (assuming he’s replaced by a competent coach) gets us “back to a 35-40 win team.” 35-40 wins would be an improvement from where we are now.
If Walton is going to continue to be coach, I think it’s clear that he’s going to keep misusing Buddy, thus lowering any trade value and leading to Buddy to vent his (understandable) frustration. I do think there is a way to keep Fox, Buddy and Boggie but only if they have the right coach that actually utilizes them to their advantages as well as fully explains the plan at the beginning of the year with “we are going to do A, the players roles with be B, and we are working towards C”. If either of these two things aren’t met, we will continue to be as we were this last season.
With that said, the most likely thing to happen is Boggie will be resigned and either he or Buddy will be traded later this off-season or before the trade deadline. I don’t really have a package or preference of who or where, but as long as it’s worthwhile players or value coming back I think that’s the best we can do.
Are we certain these are the same people?
Wasn’t Buddy the only Kings player that truly had a problem with Joerger? I’ve been watching the playoff. All of the 2 guards dribble the ball, make plays for others, and play defense as well as shoot 3’s. Shouldn’t Walton expect the same from Buddy if Buddy wants to be the starter, and if Buddy is not capable of giving the team that, he should be coming off the bench strictly to shoot the ball.
I think he should coming off the bench as a forward. That would ensure there are at least two guards (i.e., two players with guard skills) on the floor all game.
What about Klay Thompson? There are games where he barely dribbles at all and he’s super effective. GSW offense plays to Klay strength which is run around catch and shoot which requires minimal dribbling. If only we played Buddy like that this year and developed his ball handling along slowly.
Buddy has ball handling ability but it’s only effective in getting his own shot off. Ball handling to move to the ball and run the offense and ball handling to draw the double and find the open man he’s been bad. Mainly due to his poor awareness. He has no feel for where his teammates are. He can get better at that but I think Luke put way too much on his plate. Luke diagnosed Buddy’s skill set wrong and geared his development in a non optimal path for Buddy.
Now all we need are 2-3 high level facilitators/playmakers like Curry, Dray, Iggy, & Durant. The reason Klay is able to play like that is because he has the players around him that excel at creating space for him and finding him when he’s open. If Klay were on a different team with less playmaking, he’d play a very different role. Whether he’d be as successful at that other role is an open question. Klay is also a positive on defense, of course, so he offers value beyond his shooting in a way Hield doesn’t.
I disagree that Klay would play a different role on another team. I think every team will play him in that JJ Redick/Kyle Korver role. It’s just a natural fit to his game and he so happens to be the best ever at it.
Agree that Klay brings way more besides shooting. His defense is top level and unfortunately for us Hield even if he works hard doesn’t have attributes to be a defender like Klay is.
The point is that roster construction can dictate a player’s role out of necessity. One of the greatest passers at his position, who played in one of the most dynamic offenses of all time, failed to understand Buddy’s shortcomings when constructing the roster this season. Who exactly is capable of finding Buddy open as he’s running around on this team? Can that player or players also compensate for his limitations on defense?
I think De’Aaron can and Bogie as well. I also think sets can be run for him to catch and shoot. Buddy in Joerger’s last year did well and the personnel of the team has not changed drastically.
As for as who on this team can compensate for his defense limitations we probably don’t have that guy. There is some promise with Jeffries but unlikely. So the team will have to gameplan within the limitations of our team. Make the best out of what you have until you find better players.
Joerger’s offense was 16th in the NBA with a 110.4 ORtg. (Which would have ranked 18th this year.)
Walton’s offense was 18th in the NBA with a 110.2 ORtg.
The point being, having Buddy stick to his more narrowly-defined, Klay-type role may make Hield’s numbers look marginally better, but without more playmakers it isn’t going to lead to a meaningfully better team offense.
I disagree I think it can lead to a more better maybe more efficient offense but I get your point.
That’s what I was trying and you said it so much better. I believe every coach has a system, it’s the system he was taught and/or believes in. Walton wants his 2 guard to be well rounded. Buddy isn’t that but Bogi is. I would much rather re-sign Bogi and if Buddy (who has a limited game) isn’t content in his bench role trade him.
I registered to add my 2 cents on this article. The King’s core of Buddy, Fox, and Bogie isn’t a playoff team. They are good players that are going to get max or near max and ruin the cap.
The AirmaxPG trade isn’t too crazy. Robinson is going to be a star and 2 unprotected 1st could strengthen a core. The other players would be trade bait or waived. It would be Robinson and 2 lottery picks this year with a huge cap. Then, a veteran with playoff experience could be taken as FA. Maybe, a Paul Milsap and Lou Williams would work out.
And, while you have the Knicks on the phone, trade Barnes for Randle. Barnes’ contract is too big and Randle will be gone next year. Or, just trade him somewhere. I see him as a rotation player with a starter contract.
Give Luke Walton a chance. He is a proven coach. He doesn’t have enough talent to win.
Welcome.
And thanks man, I don’t think it’s crazy either 😉
I’d be cool with Randle (since he’s only $4m guaranteed next off-season). I don’t know if Barnes get it done. I’ve mentioned in the past maybe Barnes for someone like Fournier (expires next year). And maybe expand that deal a little and try to get an Orlando 1st in 2021 or 2022 (should be low 20’s but still decent value).
Disagree on Walton though. I’ve seen enough with him. But I’d be fine hiring a top-notch GM (Webster, Zarren, Hinkie) and letting them make the call.
What has he “proven” to you? I need to check the tape.
Walton did very well with GSW. You may say, “Yeah, with Klay, Steph, and KD,” but aren’t all great coaches have great talent? The first year of LeBron Lakers was a roster mess; I’m not blaming Luke.
I believe Luke wants a Warriors scheme. You know, that championship culture and defined roles with high IQ scorers that played defense. That didn’t happen is Sacto. Maybe, blowing up the Vlad team and give him another shot.
Miami Heat wasn’t scaring anyone for years. They were just a OK team, good defense, but couldn’t get it together. Jimmy Butler got them together and now they are getting ready to sweep the Bucks. Similarly, the Kings need an alpha dog leader that changes the team. You know, the guy that wakes up angry everyday to win every game.
Anyhow, I wouldn’t say to Hinkle the team, just make a trade to improve the core. Coaches can’t put the ball in the basket or get stops on defense. He has to have a team with more talent and chemistry.
I agree with most of this except I don’t see how Walton is a proven coach. His only success has been in half a season with arguably the best lineup in NBA history playing an established system. In 4 seasons as a full-time head coach he has a .406 winning percentage. Even if you include his 39-4 as the Warriors interim coach he’s still only 168-193. And, in there he had, as noted, arguably the greatest starting 5 ever and 55 games of LeBron.
Agreed. LeBron James has missed the playoffs once in the last fourteen seasons, and that was under Walton’s leadership. Maybe he’ll turn into a good coach down the road, but I wouldn’t gamble my next few seasons on it.
Life’s a gamble, Otis. If Luke was fired, who will take his place? Nate McMillan, Kenny Atkinson, Alvin Gentry, and Brett Brown have issues, too. I’m not saying Luke is Phil Jackson, he should have a reasonably normal season without bickering, injuries, and front office issues.
That’s true. However, the Lakers had LBJ, Lonzo, Michael Beasley, Lance Stephenson, and Rondo. Phew! that was a major Magic screw up!
I’m not saying that Luke is Popovich, I’m saying that I like his philosophy and he isn’t able to do what he wants for this team. I like the King’s when they are healthy and playing aggressively, but they are thin in the roster and the cap is too high.
What’s his philosophy? What is it he wants to do that he isn’t able to? Besides win, of course.
Well…he was on a championship winning Phil Jackson team and a Steve Kerr championship team. Luke talked about developing “culture.” Culture is a weird word that means something different to every person, but you can see what it is when a team has “it.” It is a solid plan with players that fit in the scheme. Spurs have a Pop culture, as does Jackson, Kerr, and Riley.
Look at Pat Riley. He is still the same guy since the 80’s. He has been a mediocre Heat team for a long time. They make the playoffs, but he believes in the plan. Spoelstra isn’t getting fired every year, he understands the philosophy, teaches it, and players no what to expect and how to train. When, you add a core like LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, you can win a championship. It’s a rarity to have LeBron getting together with his buddies to join a team, but worked the same Riley system.
The Kings have a problem with changing systems, goofy Vlade, and firing coaches. I think Luke is trying to do a Warrior system from development, training, defensive, and having defined roles in the system. It has to come from the top.
Any way that you look at it, the Kings have to figure out their culture and start with front office and consistency. I like the Warriors system, I think that Luke could use some support and a few drafts and trades.
No teams want to Buddy’s contract with revenues going down.
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