fbpx

Trade breakdown: Analyzing the Tyrese Haliburton for Domantas Sabonis trade a day later

Taking a moment to fully evaluate the trade now that it's had time to sink in.
By | 156 Comments | Feb 9, 2022

Credit: Darren Yamashita-USA TODAY Sports

It’s been about 24 hours since the Sacramento Kings traded Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, and Tristan Thompson to the Indiana Pacers for Domantas Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb, and Justin Holiday. It was a surprising trade on many levels, and an emotional hit for Kings fans as we grappled with losing the most likable player on the team. But now that some time has passed, it feels worth taking a little extra time to explore the trade beyond my stream-of-conscious reaction at the time.

Losing Haliburton Sucks

There’s no other way to put it. Haliburton was my favorite King to watch this season, and I know I’m not alone in that sentiment. In a year where the team has fallen so far below expectations, Tyrese was the exception. He exceeded expectations and was showing us the promise of what he could become. On January 29th he set a new scoring career high against the 76ers, going off for 38 points. In his last game as a King he tallied a career-high 17 assists.

With Haliburton’s ability to score effectively and distribute the ball like a wizard, it’s easy to see what might have been. And it hurts to lose that.

But we as Kings fans, myself and the rest of the Kings Herald staff included, had a tendency to overlook or downplay Haliburton’s limitations. Specifically how passive Haliburton could be at times. It was frustrating watching long scoring droughts where Tyrese would pass up open shots. He made up for it in other dazzling ways, but there were flaws in Haliburton’s game in Sacramento. It’s entirely possible that he can overcome those issues with time and experience and will end up becoming the star he’s capable of being, but it’s also possible Haliburton never grows comfortable being the best player on a good team. He may never ascend to that next level. The future is not set in stone. Some of this could be written off as me simply rationalizing Sacramento’s decision, and that may be the case, but Haliburton had flaws that we didn’t focus on because we enjoyed him so much both on and off the court.

Despite those flaws, I’m sad Haliburton is gone. I’ll continue to be a fan of his wherever his career takes him.

Getting Sabonis is awesome

The other side of the trade is that the Kings gained an incredible player. Sabonis scores a high rate, but does so within the flow of an offense. He can be the guy that gets you a bucket late in a game or late in the shot clock. He’s a very good rebounder, and an exceptional passer. Sabonis’ screening ability is often overlooked, but Alvin Gentry mentioned in in his post-game presser last night, talking about how Sabonis can help free up De’Aaron Fox in pick and roll action.

And for all those questions of what Haliburton might be, we know exactly what Sabonis is. He’s just 25-years old, fitting perfectly with De’Aaron Fox’s timeline. He’s already accomplished enough that he’s made two All-Star teams, and he’s still very much in his prime. We can certainly question how much better Sabonis can get, perhaps he’s already at his ceiling, but if he maintains even his current level of play for several more years, that’s a fantastic player to have on your team.

I know most Kings fans may not be familiar with Sabonis. He’s not a highlight machine, and the Pacers certainly aren’t staples of the national TV slate. But I’m a League Pass junkie, and I enjoyed watching the Pacers because I enjoyed watching Sabonis. I have no doubt that Kings fans are going to love rooting for him.

There are issues to sort out with Sabonis. He’s not a backstop defender who can cover for bad perimeter defenders. That was a big issue in Indiana this season, and we know that De’Aaron Fox and the Kings as a whole have not been good defensively on the perimeter. But I’m going to wait until after the deadline to begin analyzing fit, as I assume there will be more moves to come.

Don’t let the door hit you, Buddy

Buddy Hield is gone. Finally.

After being on the trade block for what feels like two years, Buddy Hield is finally gone from the Sacramento Kings. It’s a bitter end to what should have been a fun ride.

There was a time when Buddy Hield was my favorite Kings player. I have his jersey hanging in my closet. Buddy would work his ass off every game, running around screens like he was possessed by Reggie Miller. He’d nail crucial threes and had a fun swagger.

And then came the extension.

Buddy’s very public negotiations over his new contract were the first stages of Buddy losing Kings fans. It was clear that Buddy considered himself better than what he was, deserving of more than he’d earned, and despite not getting as much money as he originally wanted, the new contract seemed to solidify those ideas in Buddy’s mind.

Buddy is truly one of the worst defenders I’ve ever watched. When Buddy stopped caring about shot quality and began launching ill-advised threes early in the shot clock, it destroyed what little basketball value he had remaining. Buddy leaves the Kings shooting 36.8% from 3, the lowest of his career.

Buddy obviously wanted out of Sacramento. His play screamed “trade me or else”. And I have little doubt that he’ll play better now that he’s elsewhere. It’s worth noting, though, that the Pacers are reportedly already shopping Buddy, hoping to flip him before the deadline. This tells me that the cost of the Kings including Haliburton was forcing Indiana to also take Hield.

Sometimes I wonder if things could have been different, if only Vlade Divac and Ken Catanella hadn’t tied Buddy’s contract incentives to made threes without any qualifiers for accuracy. I’m glad I don’t have to think about it, or Buddy Hield in general, anymore.

And the rest of them

I don’t have much to say about Tristan Thompson. The trade to acquire him was bad. His production on the court here wasn’t good. His expiring contract helped make the money work in this deal. His tenure as a King will end up being rather forgettable.

Justin Holiday is a nice piece for the Kings. He’s been a productive player and is on a good contract through next season. He’s already 32, so he’s unlikely to be a long-term piece for this team, but he can help them while he’s here.

Jeremy Lamb is an expiring contract. He’ll be a decent bench wing for the Kings for this year, but that’s probably all.

Overall

In the end, I don’t hate this trade. The Kings got the best player in the deal. The gave up the player with the most upside and with the best value-to-contract. It’s a risk, and it could end up looking terrible, and I understand why people are worried about that outcome. Until the Kings start winning more than they lose, that doubt will always remain in Sacramento. I’m just hopeful that Sabonis can help change the way we think about the Kings.

Patreon Membership
* indicates required


To prevent spam, our system flags comments that include too many hyperlinks. If you would like to share a comment with multiple links, make sure you email [email protected] for it to be approved.

156 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
aljout
Original Member
Original Member
February 9, 2022 10:41 am

Fox needs to step up, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You got paid, and the replacement we drafted just got traded, so start producing.

Last night was a decent start. Now continue.

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 11:37 am
Reply to  aljout

Yep. Time for the Fox to hunt. Lets get it.

Dub_TC
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 10:42 am

The thing I dislike about this whole trade is …. people seem to be forgetting that Sabonis is a damn good player. All the takes that I see are pretty much killing the Kings, because of Hali, but it seems that they’re forgetting how freaking good Sabonis is. Also, dumping Hield’s contract and creating cap space next year.

Is it the best move to go “all in” like this? Not sure. The actual deal is a fair one, and I don’t see how anyone can say the Kings got hosed here. Not even close, IMO.

Last edited 2 years ago by Dub_TC
1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 10:46 am

My non-emotional thoughts boil down to two things about a trade that is both fair and one I would not have made.

A. I wouldn’t have done it. My reasons are simple:

https://twitter.com/SactownAnthony/status/1491464935716667404

B. I don’t understand this logic: “The Kings got the best player in the deal.” My reasons again are fairly simple:

https://twitter.com/SactownAnthony/status/1491467128259629058

So, I am not freaking out but I am perplexed as to the strategy of building around a Fox/Sabonis core. Like Vlade, does Monte not have an analytics department? Or anyone who evaluates defense? Building around two stars that don’t spread the floor or defend well isn’t impossible, it’s just a very strange strategy in the modern NBA.

Last edited 2 years ago by 1951
ThisHotFireKevin
Original Member
Original Member
February 9, 2022 10:56 am
Reply to  1951

Agreed that it’s an odd strategy, but at least at this point we have a strategy, which is nice for once.

I’d like to say “ill wait and see what other moves Monte makes” but we’ve all been down that road, I don’t suspect more will happen this trade deadline.

Amonk81
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
February 9, 2022 11:02 am
Reply to  1951

Agree 100. This trade stinks of the Kings again going after the wrong thing -playin amd building around the wrong person-Fox.

its an unnecessary and I think rather stubborn/dumb way to go. You give up on a player who is the modern game in Tyrese. Look at his numbers and style. For 2 players who can’t shoot.

Bad idea. Like always. Maybe they do more and Fox becomes a shooter but I doubt it.

They passed on Doncic because of Fox amd then miracle of miracles they get Tyrese and get rid of him because of Fox.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:07 am
Reply to  Amonk81

Yaw.

I know Kings fans are largely emotionally attached to Hali because of his personality and likability.

But even among those fans who love him, I feel there is lack of appreciation for how objectively special Hali has been in his 1st two seasons.

The combination of elite level playmaking, passing and shooting is just something that doesn’t come around easily or often.

We may have just passed it up twice now in recent years.

https://twitter.com/SactownAnthony/status/1491215246022692865

Last edited 2 years ago by 1951
andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 11:28 am
Reply to  1951

Ahh, when a person called Tony goes with a version of “what the fans don’t understand is…” he’s a wise prophet, but if someone called Kayte does that, she is aloof, arrogant, and unpleasant.

But that’s probably just a coincidence, right dudes?

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:43 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Oh Andy.

At least you are consistent with your non sequitur comments.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 11:54 am
Reply to  1951

Perhaps it’s a formatting issue, but it appears that my comment is about the one directly above it.

I may need to update Alta Vista.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:58 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Perhaps it is a cognitive issue, but if can’t tell the difference between someone saying that fans don’t understand (insert your opinion such as “having a vet for mentorship is vital to teambuilding”) and someone else saying that fans may not be aware of (insert interesting objective statistics such as “in the history of NBA players’ first two years that only Hali and Steph have averaged over 13 pts/game, averaged over 5 assists per game, and shot above 40% from three) then I can’t help you.

Good luck though!

Last edited 2 years ago by 1951
Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:06 pm
Reply to  1951

Dude is mostly here to stir up shit. It’s tiresome, which I guess makes it effective.

AnybodyButBagley
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:28 pm
Reply to  1951

You have gone way above anything he comprehends.

Amonk81
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
February 9, 2022 11:59 am
Reply to  1951

The more I see this trade the more bummed I get.

its absurd to bail on Hali for Fox. And I have been a huge Hali proponent the moment he hit the league. Never bought into a low ceiling.

Fucking idiotic to give up on, essentially, mini Steve Nash and only getting better.

Sabonis is fine but this is all because these fucks somehow think Fox is their guy.

Lastly, this really is so irritating to me that I may just be a Pacer fan. Unless Fox somehow starts making shots. It’s the only way this works.

Onward towards middling and getting rid of or not picking the best player because of a Fox/playin mandate.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:21 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Back in the 80s and 90s, it might have been a great deal. A big man like Sabonis would have been considered more desirable, or at least as equally desirable as Hali.

But we are in the 2020s now, and the game has changed. Hali is going to thrive in Indy, he’s already amazing for having been in the league only 2 years, and he’s going to be dominant by years 5 and 6.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:32 pm
Reply to  oshima9

This, to me, is the craziest notion – that the game has somehow passed Domantas Sabonis by.

Today’s game is about at-rim twos and beyond the arc threes. There is a very short list of at the rim players that are more proficient than Sabonis, all while grabbing rebounds, facilitating the offense, and doing a representable job of defending his man.

Yeah, it would be nice if Sabonis could be a little more productive from the arc. But I always harken back to Jerry Reynolds and what he says about winning your position. Sabonis is going to win his position far more often than not. Get a few more players on the floor that can do that and you might be onto something.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:40 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Sabonis is a very good big.

But there are a lot of teams in the league that have won a lot of games without one. Look at the teams that have gone deep into the playoffs in the last 10 years: the Warriors, the Cavaliers, the Raptors, the Lakers, the Bucks. The Suns are an exception with Ayton, the Heat with Adebayo, but neither are really big men like Sabonis, they are more like bigger versions of the position less players that now dominate.

I guess the Kings comparison would be the Nuggets with Jokic, but Sabonis isn’t Jokic, and it still remains the be seen how far the Nuggets can go with Jokic.

For building a team in this era, I would invest my trade assets and money elsewhere, as a lot of other teams are doing.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:48 pm
Reply to  oshima9

Quick look at the teams playing .600 ball or better right now:
Ayton
Golden State
Memphis
Bam
Milwaukee
Vuc
Mobley/Allen
Gobert

The Sixers are at .593 if you want to count Embiid

Point is, there are still a lot of ways to build a winning team in the NBA. Cleveland is especially compelling with it combination of Mobley and Allen.

Threes are important, but the at-the-rim game is a huge part of the component. Yes, grabbing a Giannis or a KD would be the current industry top of the mountain. But there are other teams that do not have such players at their disposal, and they find another way.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:52 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

And let me add that I’m not saying that Ayton or Bam or Vuc or even Gobert are their team’s best players. What I am saying is that these teams have built winning programs with these players as vital, well-paid cogs in their machines.

The Bulls should be of interest to Kings fans, as they were as bad as the Kings as recently as last season. They had LaVine (>Fox), traded for Vuc at the deadline (<Sabs), added DeRozan in the off-season, and here you have a team still playing at over .600 despite a spate of injuries that makes the Kings look lucky by comparison.

Many ways to build the mousetrap. The key is to not have the mousetrap go off on you while you’re setting it. Therein lies the unanswered question of this trade.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:59 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I think that my problem is that I don’t recognize that Sabonis is more athletic than I give him credit for being.

I would actually prefer building around players like Ayton and Gobert because I value the defense over the offense, but then, no one is trading these kinds of players are they, and they aren’t easily found.

Looney at GS is instructive. Not much of a scorer, but a critical part of their defense, can defend the post and the perimeter. It would be a big problem for GS if he got hurt.

Oh well, I don’t hate Sabonis, I hope he plays well here. Maybe, we can get the defense elsewhere. But I really believe that Haliburton is going to be a star in 3-4 years.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 1:54 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Today’s game is about at-rim twos and beyond the arc threes.

True, but if your team is filled with guys who can only score on at-rim twos, you’re going to have to make some changes.

Yeah, it would be nice if Sabonis could be a little more productive from the arc.

Agreed, but it’s not required. The real issue is when you’re building around another player in Fox who also doesn’t score beyond the arc (though he’s decent from midrange as Andy pointed out), and then throw guys like Davion and Holmes into the mix. It would be great if Sabonis could give the team some shooting, but this isn’t Sabonis’s fault or problem to solve. The roster needs more change.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 1:59 pm
Reply to  Carl

You absolutely still have to make changes. A rim protecting stretch 4-5. Get better at shooting guard. A sniper wing. An end-of the-bench PG. And Fox still needs to move up another level with his game.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:37 pm
Reply to  oshima9

i’m not a fan of this trade but the timeline argument doesn’t fly with me,

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:59 pm
Reply to  oshima9

Are all-star players still desired by teams as they were in the eighties and nineties?

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 1:01 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It depends on the All-Star.

kgdobter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:38 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

I think the problem is nobody wanted Fox because of his contract, If Monte could have traded Fox instead Hali he would have. Actually Hali has more upside than Fox and is a hell of lot cheaper.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:18 pm
Reply to  1951

“The combination of elite level playmaking, passing and shooting is just something that doesn’t come around easily or often.
We may have just passed it up twice now in recent years.”

Exactly my thought. And, as shocking as it is to say, this may be worse than Doncic, because, unlike Doncic, Haliburton is not a ball dominant player, and blend in well with just about any mixture of talent and improve it.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:08 am
Reply to  Amonk81

I think that is a fallacy to state that Sabonis can’t shoot, or that his game is somehow obsolete in today’s NBA.

I respect anyone not liking this trade. But not liking it because Sabonis somehow lacks as an overall NBA player has no traction, in my opinion.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:10 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Here are Sabonis and Hali’s respective shot charts:

https://twitter.com/LuckysPipe/status/1491126824143040512

And to be clear, I am in no way saying that Sabonis is obsolete at all. I am questioning more the pairing of him with Fox as your two primary stars given the styles of play.

Pair Sabonis with Hali (I know it wasn’t an option) and … oh my!

Last edited 2 years ago by 1951
RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:13 am
Reply to  1951

And?

I will re-state, I think that it is a fallacy to state that Sabonis cannot shoot, or that his game is somehow obsolete in today’s NBA.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:14 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Okay.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:16 am
Reply to  1951

I think that a more apt comparison would be to compare Sabs’ overall game to Randle, Siakam, Jokic, Embiid, Towns and Vucevic. Those are players that are at least somewhat similar, many of them in the Al Horford mold. I don’t see any of these guys as being obsolete or being left behind by the NBA game.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:18 am
Reply to  RobHessing

I am confused as to who you think said Sabonis isn’t really, really good? Or obsolete?

I certainly did not!

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:21 am
Reply to  1951

My initial response was to amonk, who stated

For 2 players who can’t shoot.

You responded to my response.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:23 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Gotcha. “My bad.” – Buddy and 1951

But to add to the convo, I did say that he doesn’t spread the floor particularly well. And that is true.

Take your list for example. All those bigs shoot 3s at both a higher volume and higher percentage than Sabonis.

That’s not Sabonis’s game, which is fine. Doesn’t mean he isn’t an all star caliber player, just means he doesn’t pull defenders out to the perimeter the way other players do.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:27 am
Reply to  1951

Agreed 100%. And if Sabs (or Fox) are your best players at their current levels, you are probably struggling to be anything better than a .500 team.

As I’ve stated elsewhere, I’m fine with the trade as a standalone when looking at the what was given and what was taken. The concern is whether or not the organization has the dexterity and inventory to add that vital third piece. And I don’t begrudge anyone that harbors doubts over that one.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:32 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Right. That’s the rub.

Can you build around Fox/Sabonis? Of course, both are really good players.

But given the deficiencies in their games (namely perimeter shooting, playmaking and defense) it likely requires surrounding them with a team full of shooters/defenders and adding another high level playmaker, which everyone, everyone and everyone wants!

It’s a risky strategy and one that takes a whole lot more prudent decision making and execution!

Last edited 2 years ago by 1951
RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:44 am
Reply to  1951

I don’t think that Sabonis is deficient as a defender – he’s just not going to atone for another player’s sins…which leads us back to Fox.

Last edited 2 years ago by RobHessing
MichaelMack
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:48 am
Reply to  RobHessing

I think we are all going to appreciate having a guy his size and toughness and his Defensive Rebounding percentage of 28.1%-29.8% the last four years. Being able to close out a possession is something the Kings need to be a lot better at.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:52 am
Reply to  MichaelMack

I am very excited about Sabonis being a King. I have liked that dude’s game for a while now.

I also would have valued what Hali does at a high level over what Sabonis does at a high level with respect to the trade that was made.

Both opinions can exist at the same time.

We shall see how this all plays out!

MichaelMack
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:46 pm
Reply to  1951

Oh I just noticed you have vintage Reggie Theus as your avatar. I loved that guy, he was great on the Bulls and Kings. A bit underrated overall, I think.

I remember approaching him at Carlos Murphy’s on Exposition Blvd in 86 or 87, and telling him I didn’t want him to stop eating for an autograph, but that he was my Mom’s favorite King and she had a poster of him. After he finished eating he came over to our table and made a big deal of talking with my Mom. He was really charming.

My mom did not find it as amusing as I did.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:48 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I didn’t think of Sabonis as being part of this group, and I’m not seeing him as comparable to Randle and Siakam, but it is a fair analysis. But none of the teams constructed around these players, with the exception of Siakam, have gone far in the playoffs, and it could be because the overall talent is bad and/or possibly that building around more versatile forwards and guards is a better approach as it has been for other teams.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:00 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I will re-state, I think that it is a fallacy to state that Sabonis cannot shoot

FWIW, Career, Sabonis is .347 from 10-16 feet

comment image

And .407 from 16-ft to three

comment image

And .322 from three

comment image

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:24 pm
Reply to  Carl

And yet he has a true shooting percentage this year of .649, .590 lifetime.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 1:45 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Right, but we’re talking shooting, not efficiency. I wouldn’t argue Sabonis can’t shoot from within three feet of the basket.

The difference between the two is if a bunch of your guys can only score from within three feet, you have a problem to solve, even if they do it efficiently as individuals.

Last edited 2 years ago by Carl
RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 1:49 pm
Reply to  Carl

So it’s semantics. I’m just concerned with the efficiency of putting the biscuit in the basket.

Who’s the better shooter, Sabonis or 2022 Buddy Hield? Hield can chuck it from deeper, but Sabonis gets it into the net much more efficiently. Give me Sabs for the actual game and Buddy for the 3-point shooting contest.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:02 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Yeah I agree that’s it’s a fallacy about his shooting but it’s not a fallacy that he’s not an elite athlete and there’s nothing in his tool set indicating he will be a great defender. He is fundamentally sound and has great instincts but I wonder if he’ll ever participate in an all star game again. I like Haliburton’s chances to do that after this year better than Sabonis’.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:21 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

I don’t think that either Hali or Sabs knock it out of the park on the “elite athlete” scale when measured with an NBA yardstick, but I think that they are both really good basketball players when measured with that same yardstick.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:34 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Haliburton brings a different skill set so difficult to compare but he’s a better athlete and it’s not close. Sabonis is a bit stiff and doesn’t have nimble feet which is why he’s not a great defender. He is savy and fundamentally sound but he has concerning limitations.

BeTheBall
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:21 am
Reply to  1951

Oddly enough, Sabonis is now one of the best defenders on this the team. That said, regarding what Haliburton could be vs what Sabonis is….after his 2nd season we thought Fox was on pace to become a perennial all-star & sky’s the limit. Now here we are discussing what a disappointment he’s turned out to be, and the negative effects he has on the team when he’s on the floor.

I loved watching Haliburton, however I like (but don’t love) the trade. That could change in a few years if Haliburton becomes the next “top 3 guards in the league”. However, at this point in time, we’ve definitely improved the roster. Which is what I wanted the team to do. Of course, it still has a lot of trash on it to take out before it’s truly been cleaned up.

ThisHotFireKevin
Original Member
Original Member
February 9, 2022 10:52 am

As most have said Hali was hard to trade, but this team just flat sucks and the trade needed to happen. I also think most people would have been happier sending Fox out instead of Hali, but we don’t even know if that was possible, or what that trade would be. No way Pacers take Fox and Buddy w/o draft picks.

Fact is, this team wasn’t doing anything as constructed, Hali has a potential good upside, but potential alone isn’t getting us anywhere, now, or in the future.

I said it on Twitter, and i stand by it, We got the better player now, the question is will we have the better player in 2 years.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 10:56 am

Where have you been, shoe eater?!

ThisHotFireKevin
Original Member
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:01 pm
Reply to  1951

just munching away on some tough leather.

Ccc
Comments
Comments
Ccc
February 9, 2022 10:52 am

Some guy on ESPN was dumbfounded that the kings were willing to give up Hield in addition to haliburton since Hield is 3rd in the league in 3’s. That guy must not have watched any kings games, he’s just looking at the stat sheet.

I think this is a great trade and if Fox can figure out how to play pick and roll in the flow of the offense they will both be successful. Sabonis is great w screens.

If Fox can’t find the motivation or team spirit to make it work, it could be bad for both of them, but I don’t think that will be the case.

I also can’t believe portland didn’t make this trade w CJ. Lillard and Sabonis would have been good together.

AmateurNerd
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
February 9, 2022 10:56 am
Reply to  Ccc

Most of the national media takes have painted Hield as a great shooter and a big asset. We all know that’s false. He’s one of the fundamentally worst basketball players in the league who plays significant minutes–bad hands, bad court vision, bad BBIQ, horrific defense. And he grew a heck of an ego, too. He will not be missed.

Last edited 2 years ago by AmateurNerd
Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:37 am
Reply to  Ccc

Will be very interesting to see if IND can get any value for him before tomorrow or this off-season.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 2:46 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

What do you think the odds are of that? LOL

AmateurNerd
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
February 9, 2022 10:53 am

I am very 50/50 on this trade as far as Haliburton vs. Sabonis goes. What pushes me ever-so-slightly into the “I like it” camp is the inclusion of Hield. Buddy Hield sucks. He does one thing well, and everything else mediocre or worse. For every good play he makes, there are at least two bonehead mistakes or fundamental errors, whether a pass thrown into the stands or a dribble off his foot. Despite his shooting “prowess” (which wasn’t even there this year), he is one of the most overpaid players in the league. Getting rid of Hield gives the Kings a ton more cap freedom going forward. This was a gutsy, calculating, and heartless move by McNair. Love this particular trade or hate it, that heartlessness and calculation is exactly what you want from your GM. McNair’s job is to put together the best team possible, not pander to fans’ emotions. Time will tell if he can do the former, but at least he is clearly unencumbered by the latter.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 10:55 am

Fair trades hurt, and they always come with risk.

There are things about this trade that I like (Sabs!) and things that I don’t like (Hali???). Hali is on the very short list of best contract values in the league, and it is not impossible to see him as a future all-star. On top of that, he seems like an all around good guy, a fan favorite that is sooooooooo easy to root for. He will be sorely missed in Sacramento, regardless of how good the Sabonis era Kings become. That said…

Domantas Sabonis is really, really good. I get being against this trade, and I sure understand the national media penchant for dumping on the Kings – it is the lowest hanging of fruit (unless you confer with my proctologist). But Sabonis is a rare air guy when it comes to his combination of scoring, rebounding and passing. He is not a plus rim protector but he is not a sieve on defense, either – some of his Indy teams were among the league’s best defensively. He is definitely a player that can hold his own on defense, but he probably can’t carry anyone else’s water on that end of the floor.

Domantas Sabonis is under contract for another 2.3 years, for less money than Buddy Hield. While the Kings gave up insane value/contract in Hali, they did get some value/contract back with Sabs. His contract length is basically the same as Hali’s rookie contract. Sabonis becomes a FA the same year that Hali becomes an RFA.

He’s only 25 (on a trajectory with Fox), and he may not be done growing his game. His role in Indy was closer to the basket, as Myles Turner was the floor stretcher of the two. Would Sabonis be capable of hitting a couple of threes a game at around 35-37%? It’s a pure guess on my part, but my guess is yes.

This is not my preferred path – I would have blown this thing up and started over with Hali and maybe Davi. Another guess – the market helped the front office determine its path, or at least cement it. I don’t think that the offers for Fox were nearly as strong as the offer of Sabs for Hali. That is not because Hali is better than Fox, but his style of play and contract fits on all 30 NBA rosters, while there are at least ten teams that are already set at PG and several more that could not take on Fox’s contract. This front office has been outspoken about re-tooling instead a full blown rebuild, and Hali was the asset that allowed them to move forward and add a top 30 NBA player without spending a draft pick (I would have preferred sending the pick with top 3 protections instead of Hali, but I’m guessing Indy required Hali).

There is more work to be done – Fox and Sabonis won’t carry this team to a legit playoff seed by themselves. It will be interesting to see if anything else gets done before tomorrow’s deadline, or if it’s pushed to the off-season.

TL/DR – It’s a perfectly fair trade, one that comes with the sort of risk that inherently come with trades. The question is really less about the trade value than it is the path that the front office has chosen. And as is usually the case, time will tell.

And 1 – As it stands right now, I see an 11 team in the West for this season. I think that McCollum is an easier on-board in NO than Sabs is here, and NO has three games on the Kings right now for 10th. The “reeling” Lakers are too far away for the number of games that are left. This puts the Kings drafting probably around 8-9, whereas they probably would have been closer to 6-7 without this trade. For those that do not like this trade already, this is a little salt in the wound. For those that like the trade, it’s no biggie.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:10 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I agree with all of the below but I’ve watched Sabonis a lot and I think the all star status we are given him has its qualifiers. I’m also not comfortable with how he fits into the timeline. I certainly don’t see without a blockbuster move this team heavily competing next year and that then leaves one year left with Sabonis. That in comparison to the opportunity to lock Haliburton up for 7 years with a couple of those very team friendly.

this i agree with
This is not my preferred path – I would have blown this thing up and started over with Hali and maybe Davi. Another guess – the market helped the front office determine its path, or at least cement it. I don’t think that the offers for Fox were nearly as strong as the offer of Sabs for Hali. 

SexyNapear
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 10:56 am

I’d still trade Fox for picks and a young point guard and expirings

I’d still tank.

I’d start fresh next year with a high pick, more draft capital Sabonis, Davion and some value free agents.

But then again, I can actually think farther than tomorrow.

And I bet the fans would be on board.

ThisHotFireKevin
Original Member
Original Member
February 9, 2022 10:58 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

At this point, why? Shit i’d rather move Fox/Holmes plus 2 1st for Simmons at this point. At least put something on the court that’ll make me watch.

Throwing Fox away for picks right now doesn’t do anything for you.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:03 am

Simmons is going to the Nets. They are just hammering out the details at this point.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 11:58 am
Reply to  1951

I like that Philly can just wait out the Nets if they won’t play ball. Harden can go anywhere he wants after the season, but if he likes the idea of playing with Embiid (a rather large “if”), I’d not be surprised if he gave them something of a discount.

That’s another large “if.” Lotta ifs.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:05 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yeah. Another big “if” for me, is if this is true:

https://twitter.com/JDumasReports/status/1491465752804675584

Then what is Philly waiting for? They would get Harden and replace Curry with Patty Mills, all while keeping Maxey? Okay!

Last edited 2 years ago by 1951
andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:25 pm
Reply to  1951

The Nets look desperate to me, and are overplaying their hand. I don’t think they have any intention of re-signing Harden. He’s an all-timer for sure, and is still great when healthy, but he’s on the downslope, and I don’t blame Philly at not being enamored with having to throw in both Thybulle & Curry to (possibly only) rent him.

Time is running out for Morey to turn Simmons into something useful this season, and I’d be surprised if anything comes off by tomorrow. I get not wanting to waste one of Embiid’s prime years, but the next few years matter, too, and I think that Thybulle and, to a lesser degree, Curry will be important cogs to contend, on the court, or as assets.

There are fair questions about Harden’s preference in regard to playing with a center like Embiid, which I’m not qualified to answer, but which I suspect are too big to gloss over. I think time is on Philly’s side here, and not helping a division rival become a better team overall is part of the calculus.

(Full disclosure: I’m not great at calculus.)

AmateurNerd
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
February 9, 2022 11:12 am

Doubt that’ll happen, but I’m willing to bet they unload Barnes + Holmes + something else in exchange for another big-time player, a la John Collins or Jerami Grant (or someone of a similar level). The mission is clearly to win now.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:43 am
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Barnes plus anything for Jerami Grant is insanity. I don’t think even a straight up trade makes any sense. I hope you’re right about more moves coming though.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:46 am
Reply to  Carl

Barnes is really the floor spacer that you need if you could ever convince him to come out and shoot at least 8 threes a night.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:48 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Yes, but you need more than one, especially when so much of your rotation can’t shoot.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:49 am
Reply to  Carl

Agreed. Davi is a wonky fit with this group unless/until he learns how to shoot.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:01 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Gentry should just call a time out when the other team gets the ball, sub in Mitchell, and when the Kings get the ball, call another time out, and put someone in for Davion. Ideally, someone like Steph Curry.

It’s so simple, I can’t believe that no one has done it yet. The logic is irrefutable.

ThisHotFireKevin
Original Member
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:03 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

welcome to basketball 3.5!

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:26 pm

The decimal means it’s right!

AnybodyButBagley
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 3:29 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

The pace of the game would be slow.

Pace wins you know.

Jack
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 5:10 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

I would rather keep Barnes and Trade Holmes to the Hornets for PJ Washington and Bouknight You now play Barnes at small forward which takes a lot of pressure off and Washington is a really good stretch four. You also get a backup guard at 6’5”

Jack
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 5:01 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

I have been a Kings fan for a long time. I also posted a couple of days ago as a coach for 47 years I have never tried to lose a game.that breedes losers not winners. And about Fox how many of you had him as your favorite player when he came into this league. He scored 29 points the other night after being out for 8 games.He also showed some good defensive moves. Go back and look at the play he made in the corner steal. He has always wanted to be a King. Don’t compare him or anyone else to another player. Fox is a King and a really good one. I also hated to see Hali go. He was also my favorite player. I have also really liked Fox. About trades I believe their will be one or two more yet to be done. I also you don’t trade Barnes. He is one of the best forwards in the league He is also a winner. Lastly you people really give McNair a bad time. Some of you think he has no heart. He is the GM and his job is to do the trading. I think Sabonis was a good trade and Monty pulled the trigger. Maybe you would rather have Divac at the reins. I think Monty is working hard to push the Kings in the right direction. GO KINGS

JackassCentral916
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 11:10 am

We sucked before the trade. We’ll suck after the trade. We would have sucked if we hadn’t made the trade. Welcome to basketball hell Domantas.

Jack
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 5:14 pm

What a good and happy Kings fan. Maybe you should root for the Lakers

aplumley
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 11:11 am

If the Kings don’t start winning in the next two years, Sabonis is gone while Hali is a RFA and this trade is horrible. I’m a fan, so I’m rooting for it to work out but losing Hali is tough.

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:30 am
Reply to  aplumley

Yeah, that is the main thing that bothers me. I really like Sabonis, but all steps by the FO will now be based on building a team around him that can contribute straight away. So, same old – same old. We are not busy building a real contender; we are trying a shortcut towards a 5th or 6th seed team. And then hope that Sabonis is happy with that and stays once he hits UFA status.

Also, I have serious concerns about the Fox and Sabonis fit. They both are at their most effectfive near the rim, and don’t really seem to create space for each other. The p&r is the bread and butter for Sabonis, but Fox is not very effective in the p&r. Sabonis is a good passer who can find the cutter, Fox is pretty passive without the ball in his hands. Defensively, they don’t complement each other very well either.

So the FO will have to do a lot of work to put the players around them to cover for their weaknesses. We’ll see.

Jack
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 5:17 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Monty is doing what he was hired to do. It will take a little more time. You don’t do it all in one day.

MichaelMack
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:17 am

I am really excited to get Sabonis. It would be my bet that he is not at his ceiling yet. He has put up some tremendous numbers in the last couple of seasons, and that is with sharing the floor with another big he didnt really fit well with, and with a bit of a coaching carousel the last 2.5 seasons. If Monte can put him at the five and find some rim protection at the 4 and the bench, and with his elite rebounding, I think a good coach can maximize him, where I am not sure he was being maximized in Indiana. Obviously the coaching decision this summer is paramount, it has to be someone who can get the most out of Sabonis/Fox, but overall I am really pleased we have him, even with it costing the team so dearly. Davion might be the swing factor here, if he gets near his ceiling it provides a dynamic factor that the Kings lost in sending Haliburton out.

Drwdown
February 9, 2022 11:20 am

Does this trade remind anyone else of the Monta Ellis-Andrew Bogut trade?
Fans booed Mullin on the night they retired his Jersey cause they thought it was so bad..

Not saying the Kings are going to be the Warriors… Just that the key players of the trade Ellis/Haliburton Bogut/Sabonis are paralells. And (Warrior) fans hated the deal when it was made just as much, if not more, than Kings fans do this deal…

Let’s just hope the Kings made the right choice as well! Only time will tell

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:24 am
Reply to  Drwdown

No, because in that scenario Monte is Fox and Hali is Steph! 😉

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:29 am
Reply to  1951

I loved the postgame last night when Barnes was asked if he has ever played with an elite passing big, and he incredulously looked at the reporter and responded something along the lines of “Come on, man. Andrew Bogut, dimes all night!”

Drwdown
February 9, 2022 12:19 pm
Reply to  1951

No. In this scenario Fox is Steph cause he’s the one who stayed

Last edited 2 years ago by Drew Hall
oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:26 pm
Reply to  Drwdown

I think that the Oakland fans booed Mullin and Lacob that night because Lacob had recently announced that the Warriors would build a new arena in SF. I think that the story that they booed because of the Monta Ellis trade was a myth designed to hide this.

Gojira2021
Comments
Comments
February 9, 2022 11:24 am

Sure is funny how the tide has shifted on Fox. A season ago Fox was considered untradable and supposedly better than Ja Morant. Stories were circulating that Ja sat out games against the Kings so he wouldn’t have to face Fox. Look at where we are today. Ja is an all-star while Fox’s value is still enigmatic.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:30 am
Reply to  Gojira2021

It’s almost as though real-time results can affect someone’s opinion.

BeTheBall
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:42 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Impossible…Dwight Howard is still one of the most dominant bigs in the league, and I’ll fight anyone that says otherwise.

🙂

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 11:47 am
Reply to  BeTheBall

comment image

Klam
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
February 9, 2022 12:13 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

comment image

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:27 pm
Reply to  Klam

Flagged for indecency.

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 11:46 am
Reply to  Gojira2021

Man I remember those rumors about Ja sitting. I was like “Wait, someone is finally afraid of US?” Loved it. Was so much fun watching Fox fly. It still is.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:27 pm
Reply to  Gojira2021

I don’t think that there were very many people outside of Sacramento who thought that Fox was better than Morant last year. Morant’s upside was already obvious.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:34 pm
Reply to  oshima9

I remember being rebuffed when I suggested that Morant and Young had passed Fox as recently as this past off-season. I suggested that Fox was somewhere in the 10-12 range as a PG, and some agreed while others thought that he was top 8. but to your point, it was mostly Sac. speak.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:50 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I had the same experience.

HunterSThompson
February 9, 2022 12:43 pm
Reply to  Gojira2021

Long time listener…nearly first time caller. I love this site and was apoplectic when I couldn’t log on yesterday…started citing conspiracy theories to my wife who immediately phoned her divorce attorney. Don’t worry…it is just her way of nudging me away from the edge-which is different than nudging me off the edge.

First, my daughter just spent her own hard earned cash to buy a Haliburton jersey (granted, it was purchased from China and probably won’t be here for another 6-10 months) and was bummed that her “boyfriend” got traded-great, now I have that to deal with.

Second, you are correct on the 180 degree switch on Fox-and damn it if it isn’t mostly his making. There are hardly worse optics than the stud player who gets essentially a max deal, takes photos that he posts on IG wherein he appears to be sitting on a throne surrounded by all of the people who will benefit from his generational wealth, who then follows that up with a less than inspired season of okay basketball.

I hope that he can somehow get back to the player that was on an upward trajectory that made all of us feel that this franchise had some hope.

Third (and last), this team was not a work in progress…it was not working at all. At some point our GM has to make some decisions that we, as fans, may dislike. He has been put at the helm of this ship (the Titantic?) and has to be able to steer it in the best way he sees fit. If it sinks, he pays the price with his job. If it successfully gets this battleship heading in the right direction…we reap the rewards.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 1:02 pm

Welcome, and best of luck with your marriage!

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:36 am

I think it’s too soon to say how the deal turns out long term, but it’s not unreasonable in the moment. I love Tyrese’s IQ, attitude, demeanor, effectiveness and everything else. He’s also really young and barely has a toe in the NBA. If Tyrese actually improves his defense and assertiveness scoring the ball, this would be a bad long-term deal. I get why people are ripping the trade. I also get why people might think Tyrese will never have the physicality to be a good defender, or the assertiveness to be an A-level scorer.

This roster, with Tyrese on it, was never going anywhere and needed change to have any (short-term) chance of improvement. It’s reasonable to think the Kings should have changed everything else, but if your goal is short term, or you don’t believe Tyrese will ever be an all star, it’s reasonable in the moment. Sabonis is a really good player on a great deal, who has been the best player on playoff teams, but maybe isn’t a perfect fit for the modern NBA.

My issue at this point is that I don’t think you can build around Fox and Sabonis unless pretty much everyone else your team is a shooter and defender, and maybe not even then. This trade should be the first step and not the last. This roster is a mess of non-shooters and/or non-defenders, including your two main players. Maybe *this* roster is a #10 instead of a #12, but that’s actually worse and not better.

A lineup of Fox, Mitchell, Holmes, Sabonis, Barnes is a car crash of non-shooters. Maybe you plugin Holiday (or Terence Davis when he’s back) for Mitchell, but either way, it’s not a good team. There must be a lot more change and at a much faster pace.

I’ve said it since the trade and will keep saying it. I think Fox needs to go as soon as you can trade him for a good return. Fox can certainly get to the basket and score the ball there. But he can’t shoot, doesn’t defend, suffers tunnel vision, and his demeanor and leadership are in serious question after this season. He relies on elite athleticism, which is likely to fade before he’s 30, if that’s not happening already. I really like Fox as a person, but I think unless you build a really specific roster around him, he’s going to become harder and harder to trade over the next few years, where you’re basically going to have to salary dump him in 2 or 3 years after not getting to the playoffs, or squeaking in as the 8 seed if you make great moves.

I’m fine with the trade from a value standpoint right now. That doesn’t mean the front office has forever immunity on the deal. If Tyrese becomes Grant Hill, it’s a massive screwup. I also don’t yet trust the front office to get stuff done in terms of building a roster that wins. This is a good enough first step for now. Let’s see if they can take step two before 2024.

Last edited 2 years ago by Carl
Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 11:57 am
Reply to  Carl

I agree with some of this but perhaps there’s not a market for Fox with his contract. I don’t like the trade but certainly the verdict remains to be determined. It would have made sense to me if we moved Fox instead of Haliburton or if they follow this up now with a blockbuster win now trade and get let’s say Lillard for Fox and maybe a draft pick. That’s certain not where I would have gone but this trade alone will at best provide a short term improvement and I think our timeline is longer than two years.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:11 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

You’re right that there might not be a market for Fox. Chris Biderman from the Bee wrote as much, though I can’t tell if that’s speculation or not. (He’s traditionally been an NFL guy.)

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 3:10 pm
Reply to  Carl

It’s not the money, it’s the max slot he also occupies. Simple question: You have your choice of Julius Randle, Tyrese Haliburton and keeping Buddy Hield until the end of his contract.

Or you have what the Kings now have with Sabonis and Fox and company. Which do you choose? I choose Domas/Swipa option personally, but I know a lot of people will choose the former and say if worse comes to worse you can just buy out Buddy. Which is not something I see as very likely.

That’s the legitimate choices I think McNair was facing, and it’s no guarantee that Haliburton hits the promised land.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:06 pm
Reply to  Carl

I think you got a lot of things right here. I’d quibble with the notion that Fox can’t shoot, and would modify it to specify threes. He’s been awfully efficient in the midrange, and as you said, he can get to the hoop almost at will. I think his 2P percentage is pretty good, but I don’t honestly know.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 12:14 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

You’re right about Fox’s midrange shooting, which is at least decent. There’s a bit of midrange shooting in vogue for some playoff games and among specific teams (and maybe the Kings given the roster) though I’m not sure it’s ever going to be a real factor in the NBA again.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:31 pm
Reply to  Carl

Barring a rule change, you’re right, things are likely to continue moving toward more threes in NBA offenses. I still think if a guy can get you 19/6 with decent efficiency, the location of the shots taken isn’t terribly important, but there are likely factors that I’m not considering.

Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 1:41 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I still think if a guy can get you 19/6 with decent efficiency, the location of the shots taken isn’t terribly important

I agree if we’re talking about a big. But if your lead guard can’t shoot the three, it’s dragging down his efficiency everywhere, both from a numbers perspective and from an opposing defensive strategy perspective. It’s a pretty serious weakness, and I’m not sure that player can truly be efficient. Fox is in the bottom third of the league for guards in EFG% this season and he was around 89th out of 186 guards last season. His TS% ranks among guards are similar, but slightly better.

Fox has been able to thread that needle to some degree so far, though less this season. I don’t think at this point we’re ever going to see even average three point shooting from him for long periods, so what do you do? Westbrook made it work when he had better players around him, but he’s turned into (and maybe always was) a guy who piles up numbers in a way that isn’t necessarily adding wins. John Wall is in a similar category.

I think you deal Fox, but I could certainly be wrong. Anything is possible, including building a roster around Fox and Sabonis and including Davion. But it seems like the degree of difficulty is really high, and if something major has to change, Fox is the logical choice to me, and sooner rather than later.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 3:59 pm
Reply to  Carl

Definitely a high degree of difficulty, especially given some of the constraints about current roster talent. I still think that they’ve got to get someone better than Fox and Sabonis, and if that could be done, I don’t think Fox being moved would be a dealbreaker, depending on the details.

A Fox/Barnes package, possibly with picks included, seems like it ought to be good enough to bring an all-star-level talent, or a pretty good player and some picks. Time is getting short, but sending Barnes out to get picks, or with picks to get a player, ought to get you back something pretty good.

And it could all be done i the offseason, too. That would suit me, since I think the tank absolutely needs to continue, barring something revelatory in the next twenty hours.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:32 pm
Reply to  Carl

“I think Fox needs to go as soon as you can trade him for a good return. Fox can certainly get to the basket and score the ball there. But he can’t shoot, doesn’t defend, suffers tunnel vision, and his demeanor and leadership are in serious question after this season. He relies on elite athleticism, which is likely to fade before he’s 30, if that’s not happening already. I really like Fox as a person, but I think unless you build a really specific roster around him, he’s going to become harder and harder to trade over the next few years, where you’re basically going to have to salary dump him in 2 or 3 years after not getting to the playoffs, or squeaking in as the 8 seed if you make great moves.”

I agree with all of this, which is why I would have been pleased to see Fox traded, even if the return was poor, because you make up for lost value through the draft and, at some point, you have to move on from players you’ve decided aren’t going to work for you.

In this case, Hali, Davion and a high pick after the season would have been a good starting point, regardless of whether the return for Fox was great, good or bad. But, now, this is Fox’s team, most likely for the remainder of his contract.

Fox and Sabonis looks like a team built to keep it solvent. Don’t see a high ceiling with it, although a great draft selection could change things. The critical question is how good is Fox if the ball is taken out of his hands more. As already suggested here, the answer may be, not very.

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:36 am

Guys, we lost an elite shooter!!

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:49 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

Yeah, but we also got rid of Buddy.

Gojira2021
Comments
Comments
February 9, 2022 11:57 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

Along with our only connection to the Kardashians….

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 11:51 am

The comment was made
He’s just 25-years old, fitting perfectly with De’Aaron Fox’s timeline.

Let’s understand this. He has just two years left after this season on his contract and we could have locked up Haliburton for 7 years. I hope in this two year time frame we are able to acquire the players around him to compete for a title and create a sustainable winning model. If not, and that’s a big ask, good luck resigning him in two plus years.

We keep referring to him as a two year all star and that’s true but those selections have qualifiers. First there’s an element of subjectivity in those selections and he was playing in the east. I doubt he would be an all star in the west and he’s certainly at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to all star selections.

The trade wire has these Indiana players vastly overrated and are suggesting returns far in excess of their value. If these players were that good I’d suspect Indiana’s record to be much better. One could make the case that Sabonis’ supporting class of Turner, Brogden, Duarte, LaVert is much better than Haliburton’s and the team records are not much different. So I question if we got the better player, maybe now by a slim margin but I’m betting on Haliburton’s future over Sabonis’.

I will add, just what is the short term plan and long term plan with this trade. Was the purpose to make a better run this year and/or position ourselves better for the future. Are the short and long term plans congruent with each other. IDK but this appears to be a panic move by a management team with no clear direction. Does it make any sense to play a bunch of veterans the rest of the year in the hopes of obtaining a low playoff position that’s likely to end in one game even if they get that far. It looks to me that we have a pretty top heavy draft coming so why not try to position ourselves much better for that draft. If we did and got a little lucky we might grab a real franchise making player.

So I would not being playing anyone over 26 years old the rest of the way and do what OKC does when we threaten to win and go deeper into the bench. Of course, how does Sabonis feel about this. IDK but I hear no communication coming out of this front office that demonstrates any kind of cohesive plan. If nothing more happens between now and tomorrow’s deadline, this looks like confused and disastrous move.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:16 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

You have Hali locked up for the next 7 years in the same way that you had De’Aaron Fox locked up for the next 7 years when he was a 2nd year player. Or Buddy Hield. The truth is that you have a rookie “locked up” for four years on a pre-set rookie deal, after which you have market matching rights.

Sabonis is pretty widely regarded as a top 30-35 player in the league right now. He’s on a par with Fox, above (at least as of 2/9/22) Haliburton by more than a bit.

Who feeds the information for the “trade wire?” I think that it is within the realm of possibility that Hali may someday become a better player than Sabonis is today, but he’s not there yet, not close. And the rest of the players in this trade are pretty inconsequential, to be honest. Lamb is an expiring. Holiday is a nice bench piece on a good team.

I don’t see this trade as a panic move. I see it as adding an upper level talent in exchange for an upper level (maybe top level) value asset. And the motivation seems clear – that this team will be better with Fox/Sabs than Fox/Hali. Worrying about the summer of 2024 seems a bit silly to me at this point in time. The trade will probably take the Kings from a a 32-37% chance at a top four pick to a 20-26% chance. As a front office, if you believe in Sabonis giving up that small percentage is of little risk. Bottom line, this trade is solely about what Sabonis brings to this team vs. what Haliburton brought. The fringes of this trade are exactly that.

The front office has actually been rather transparent in its desire to “re-tool” instead of “rebuild.” I don’t agree with the approach, but they have picked a lane and picked up Sabonis along the way.

All of that said, if today’s roster is the opening night roster in the fall of 2022, I would agree that this is a confused and potentially disastrous move. There is still work to be done on this front office’s “re-tooling” path.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:28 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I don’t think Sabonis is a top 30 player and your regurgling of the contract debate is false. If you want to tap into what’s highly regarded, I can’t fine anyone respected in the world of regarding who thinks this is a good move for the Kings. I will however support your last paragraph but let’s see if the additional work gets done or the necessary re-tooling as you characterize it. It has to be done soon, and I don’t know if we have many chips left to play considering Fox may not have much of a market and we’ve already got a good indication of the limited market for Barnes,

I guess we agree that this was not the preferred path but not much else.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 12:33 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

STOP REGURGLING, ROB.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:40 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

your sniffing someplace for some reason.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 1:03 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

your what is sniffing someplace?

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:39 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Sam Vecenie did a deep dive on the Athletic deal today. He was not a fan of the deal, but he did cover it from all angles. I respected the perspective.

Honestly, I don’t respect the takes of most national talking heads or internet warriors. I respect the takes of the people in this thread 1m more times than those yayhoos. Your opinion means exponentially more to me than that of JJ Redick, for example. He could shoot a basketball. Yippee. Let him try being a Kings fan like you. My guess is that he does not have the stomach or the patience for it.

I can’t list out 30 players that are better than Sabonis right now, much less 35. Maybe you can. Opinions vary, and are respected.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:44 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I might give it a shot but when you get between 25 and 50 it becomes highly subjective and I suspect i’ll have him closer to the later number than you.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 1:10 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

I’ll add this – I think that we have to go back to Cousins to find a Kings player that commanded a double team. Sabonis will command such looks, and he is very proficient at passing out of the double team before it arrives. This could benefit a Harrison Barnes (for example) greatly, whether it is Sabonis hitting him cutting to the hoop or unguarded behind the arc.

My concern about Sabonis is whether or not the Kings can possess the talent around him to really accentuate his game. To wit, Bibby, Peja and Christie all benefited from Webber, and vice versa. The Kings are at least a player away from getting a full return on investment from Sabonis.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 1:14 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Your last paragraph I’m in total agreement but Sabonis is not the offensive force Cousins was. He has other preferred attributes for sure but doesn’t command the types of defenses Cousins did.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 1:28 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

I agree with that. In a vacuum, Cousins > Sabonis. And while I never intimated that Sabonis was the offensive force that Cousins was, Sabonis indeed commands double teams on almost a nightly basis. Sometimes it is very little and sometimes it is substantial – his assist numbers for the night usually reflect the amount of double team attention that he is getting. But to your point, I don’t think that Sabonis has ever been the be-all and end-all of an opponent’s defensive strategy, while Cousins faced that regularly. That was as much about Cousins’ “support” as it was his talent.

Jack
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 5:26 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Sabonis is a better playethan Cousins. Just with his attitude the other four players on the court I would think would’nt want to play with him. To me Cousins was not a winner but a sore loser

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 1:11 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Not considering age which otherwise would move Sabonis up a bit although a few young guys will likely surpass him soon. There’s 40 players better than him right now off the top of my head.
Lebron
KD
Joker
Giannis
Curry
Tatum
Harden
Butler
Klay Thompson
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Gobert
Morant
Embiid
Simmons
Ball
KAT
Murray
Chris Paul
Devin Booker
Green
Kawhi 
Jaylon Brown
kyrie Irving
Lillard
Donovan Mitchell
Bradley Beal
Luka
Trae Young
Vucevic
Middleton
Derozan
Siakam
LaVine
Adebayo
Ayeton

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 1:25 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Yeah, I find at least a few guys there that I disagree with. I’m comfortable placing him between 30-35. As I said, opinions vary.

At what point do you think you would place Hali in this group?

MichaelMack
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 9, 2022 2:53 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

He would be in my top 35 as well. I said in a post above, I have watched a lot of Indiana basketball, I was a big fan of his and Oladipo, and was excited when they were traded to Indiana. I think there is still a higher ceiling for Sabonis, even with as well as he has played the last couple of years.

The coaching search this off season is just so crucial. I like the potential of Sabonis/Fox and what can be built around them, but there is no room for a mediocre coach.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 3:54 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

That’s a really good question. Not now but it wouldn’t surprise me if we are considering that next season. I think it depends on Indiana’s roster next year. I like what they are doing and I wish the Kings would be following that model although the trade chips are a bit different. I just checked some publications on player rankings and the highest I saw was 29 and the lowest 47. I’m going with 40ish. The real question is where it will be in the middle of next season. I hope we don’t see regression with the Kings which is not out of the question.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 4:07 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

I too would prefer the Pacers model. I would have sold everything but Hali and hit the reset button, and I would have started at last year’s deadline. Alas, the Kings front office has ventured down a different path. As always, hoping for the best, anticipating the worst.

BradMillersDipCup
Original Member
Original Member
February 9, 2022 11:56 am

Does anyone know if Sabonis is open to chewing tobacco in live post game interviews and putting his hair in cornrows??

Storm
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:00 pm

Yesterday I was furious, today I’m somewhere between mad and miffed

Sabonis is a really good player and definitely the best player at present time involved in this deal

The key to whether this was a good move or not is how much potential you think Hali has.

If he can truly turn into a franchise star for the pacers and reach an extremely high ceiling then this is a major L for the Kings

If he can’t and he stays in the “really good but maybe a borderline all star” sort of guy then the Kings have a chance to come out on top.

I still hate this F.O and the fact that we are trying to win in another lost season.

I’ve come to hate that we traded boogie for buddy and really buddy’s slide from adoration to disdain.

I can’t stand the fact that in almost every decision, every deal, we HAVE to rationalize things to some extent. We don’t get just good moves we can celebrate.

We will see what happens. This has the potential for major, epic Kangz. On the level of passing on Luka. It also could be a sneaky under rated move.

It all depends on Tyreese Haliburton and how the Pacers develop him.

Last edited 2 years ago by Storm
MidtownMike
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 1:36 pm
Reply to  Storm

It has almost ZERO chance of being a major epic Kangz move and definitely not near the level of passing on Luka, what an absurd take.

They only way that happens is if Sabonis refuses to play for the Kings.

Storm
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 7:44 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

Saying that any move the kings could make has an “almost 0 chance of Kangz” is the absurd take here lmfao

Maybe use your imagination and think next time before commenting, clearly you didnt.

Swish41
February 9, 2022 12:12 pm

apparently the Pacers get calls regarding Buddy. Do you think Monte (or TKH) misjudged his value?

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 9, 2022 12:35 pm
Reply to  Swish41

If they are offered anything more than a protected 2nd and expiring I will be surprised. Eric Gordon is still out there, and he is more attractive than Buddy right now, as was Caris LaVert.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 1:05 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

When they moved Levert to Cleveland, I thought they might have interest in Fox as a scorer/playmaker in trade for Sabonis. Life comes at you fast.

KingOfTheMonsters
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 2:57 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

So does Fox.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 9, 2022 4:00 pm

HE REALLY DOES.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 3:56 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I think that is correct which I suggested earlier and I would hav taken a second and an expiring and not made the Haliburton deal. Now I have some cap space in the offseason and flexibility to do more thought provoking deals,

Dirkula
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
February 9, 2022 12:31 pm

Like Sabonis, liked his dad when he played for Portland (when healthy), but I LOVED Haliburton. This one truly hurts and I wish Hali the