fbpx

Monte McNair has a plan, will Vivek let him execute it?

Monte McNair has been on the job just a few short months and there are already reports of Vivek meddling again.
By | 221 Comments | Nov 22, 2020

Photo courtesy of Sacramento Kings

Sunday was a tough day for Kings fans. Bogdan Bogdanovic signed an offer sheet with the Atlanta Hawks, and it’s unclear if the Kings will match or lose Bogi for nothing. Harry Giles signed with the Trail Blazers. Kent Bazemore signed with the Warriors. In one day the Kings may have lost three players that had endeared themselves to fans, particularly Harry and Bogi.

The cherry on top of the turd sundae is a new report from The Athletic’s Sam Amick that Vivek Ranadive may be up to his old meddling way. Sam is as in tune with the Kings as anyone, so where he says something is happening, there’s reason to believe him.

There’s a lot there, so before we get to Vivek, let’s talk about everything else.

McNair has a plan

Amick says that part of what McNair will weigh when deciding whether or not to match Bogi is the market for Buddy Hield. The logic is that it doesn’t make sense to run it back with Bogi and Buddy fighting over the starting role. It’s maximizes neither player, and buries Tyrese Haliburton in the rotation.

Amick adds that part of McNair’s pitch to earn his job was building the Kings around De’Aaron Fox, and surrounding Fox with players who fit his timeline. Haliburton is two years younger. Bagley fits that timeline. And in the failed sign-and-trade with Milwaukee the Kings would have gotten Donte DiVincenzo who would have also fit the timeline.

This framework also aligns with other things we’ve seen. HoopsHype’s Michael Scotto reported earlier Sunday that the Kings didn’t seek to retain Bazemore, specifically because they want to get younger.

It seems clear that McNair has a goal for the type of players he wants to add, and the primary factor is how they fit with Fox. However, if McNair wants to build young around Fox, one has to wonder where rumors of Sacramento’s interest in Hassan Whiteside are coming from. Whiteside is 31 years old and wouldn’t fit it all with Fox’s style of play.

Vivek’s meddling

It’s absolutely insane to be hearing that Vivek is meddling in basketball ops so early in Monte McNair’s tenure. Vivek was too involved when Pete D’Alessandro was in charge, and it ended badly. There were constant reports of Vivek’s involvement in Vlade’s reign, including an attempt to insert Joe Dumars above Vlade at the end of last season, and it ended badly.

We had also heard that Aneel Ranadive had been involved in GM interviews, which I actually didn’t have a problem with. But if he’s now exerting influence over basketball decisions then it does nothing but compound the Vivek problem. Too many cooks in the kitchen is a problem even if all the cooks are qualified. When it comes to basketball decisions, Vivek and Aneel are not.

Vivek seems like a smart guy outside of basketball, but he can’t seem to recognize the obvious pattern that he has been chairman of the Kings for seven and a half years and his meddling has never once helped the Kings be successful on the court.

The Kings hired an experienced, intelligent executive to run their basketball team. It’s time to stop making the same mistake over and over, and instead get the hell out of the way and let McNair do his job.

Patreon Membership
* indicates required


To prevent spam, our system flags comments that include too many hyperlinks. If you would like to share a comment with multiple links, make sure you email [email protected] for it to be approved.

221 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
MikeGarza
Original Member
Original Member
November 22, 2020 9:11 pm

No. Greg, the answer is no.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 9:19 pm

I’m tired.

RLuket
November 22, 2020 9:20 pm

Vivek is the slowest learning smart guy I’ve ever met.

02kingsfan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 11:01 pm
Reply to  RLuket

That’s if he’s even learning…..i think for a man like him who came from nothing and worked his way into becoming a billionaire there are some level of arrogances that comes with it.

Lukarehab
November 23, 2020 5:58 am
Reply to  02kingsfan

This a thousand times over. Rich guys think they’re smarter than everyone else about everything.

aljout
Original Member
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:09 pm
Reply to  RLuket

LOL that you think Vivek is learning.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
November 22, 2020 9:21 pm

The answer to this is obvious: No. And just when I thought the Kings might act like a professional franchise, this same crap keeps surfacing.

All things being equal….oh shit it’s the real world where there’s no such thing. You don’t get your cake and eat it too.

I really fucking hate this franchise right now (and I wish I didn’t), and I really hate Vivek Ranadive’s stewardship of this franchise. Sucking donkey balls would be a dramatic improvement for him.

Un. Fucking. Believable.

Dirkula
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 9:25 pm

This news is literally the cherry on top a shit Sund(ae)y

AirmaxPG
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 9:23 am
Reply to  Dirkula

Yep, same as it ever was in the Kangdom. One step forward (the draft), followed by a step back. End result: We go nowhere.

I think these tidbits by Amick are just preparing us for what is to come. His sources are likely inside the org, and they carry water for Vivek. Basically, Vivek wants Buddy. Monte probably wants Bogi. I’m sure there are suitors for Buddy, but no offers that meet Vivek’s lofty standards for his prized 2 guard. So Monte’s hands are tied, and now we are likely to lose Bogi (the better, more valuable all around player between the two) … for nothing.

Interesting they say Bogi wants out. Bogi is a professional basketball player. He wants to get paid fairly. ATL gave him a fair offer. We would be wise to match. If Bogi does want out, it is because he sees how this Mickey Mouse operation runs here under Vivek.

So in summary, Bogi’s gone. The org is in damage control feeding their sources bullshit about why that’s OK. Just look at our shiny new draft pick.

Maybe we get REAL close to that 9th seed this year. Or likely another draft pick 8-12. Never contending. Never relevant. Kangz.

NotMe
November 22, 2020 9:28 pm

I suspect that in a few years we may learn that it was Vivek whispering €œMarvin€ in Vlade’s ear in 2018. Would fit a long pattern.

Amonk81
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:18 pm
Reply to  NotMe

Yes. And 1 thing, Vivek… F*** You.
Seriously, it takes a huge ego and an asshole to not see HE is the problem. And now he’s bringing his son in? Really gross behavior.

We may need another billboard.

SMF-PDXConnection
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:28 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

What good will a billboard do? It’s not like people would see it since we’re all (or most of us) staying home.

Amonk81
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
November 23, 2020 1:23 am

i meant eventually. Obviously, not now.

I was trying to say a measure like billboard/etc may be needed in order to try to do something to stop the next 20 years of Vivek’s ineptitude and ego.

Hard to fathom an ego so big you’d screw an entire city and fan base. He is an unbelievably selfish human being.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
November 24, 2020 2:36 pm
Reply to  Greg

I think part of the reason it was leaked that Bagley was the pick to keep Vivek from taking Doncic. The FO had a vision, and strangely Vivek later changed his mind that it was a good idea.

You can never trust Vivek Ranadive is the moral of this story.

SierraSpartan
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 9:29 pm

It doesn’t make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” — Steve Jobs

 “I hire people brighter than me and get out of their way.” — Lee Iacocca

“Work like a jazz band.” — Vivek Ranadive

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:04 pm
Reply to  SierraSpartan

€œStupid is as stupid does€ €” Forrest Gump

Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:55 am
Reply to  SierraSpartan

Vivek’s mantra from the tech world was to “fail quickly and move on”. It’s time to move on from owning this basketball team.

The_Kings_Whine
November 22, 2020 9:37 pm

Technically neither Bogi nor Buddy meet the timeline if that’s what Vivek or McNair want-they are both a few years older than Fox/Bagley. Keep them both to start the season. One or both can be traded later. I think Vivek is still learning about patience and I suspect McNair already understands the concept based on what he saw in Houston. I’m optimistic. And patient given my commitment to this team since the 1980s. It doesn’t hurt to have too many good players. Well, I’m not the one paying the bills for this team during a pandemic so maybe it does hurt. But this season is gonna hurt anyways. This is my first post on this site but I’ve been lurking for awhile. Kudos to the amazing and committed writers here at the Herald.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 4:34 am

It’s interesting to hear that the market is tepid for Buddy. So it does make you wonder how movable he is. Because he or Bogi would need to be moved at some point.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
November 23, 2020 8:08 am
Reply to  Otis

Truth be told, I highly doubt either one is on the next Kings playoff team.

SMF-PDXConnection
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 8:49 am
Reply to  Adamsite

At this point, I’m not sure there IS a next Kings playoff team.

ForKingsandCountry
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 10:30 am

Yeah we have reached the point that the idea of the Kings making the playoffs at some point is purely theoretical.

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 9:40 pm

The proof is in the pudding. If McNair finds a way to trade Buddy in order to match Bogi, we are OK and making the best out of a bad situation. Hopefully, McNair knows how to manage Vivek’s ego while making good decisions. I mean, it’s not like he didn’t know what he was getting into when he took the job, so I assume he has some idea on how to deal with it.

ElRonToro
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 9:53 pm

I’m getting too old for this shit

ForeverKANGZ
November 22, 2020 10:12 pm
Reply to  ElRonToro

//:0

ForeverKANGZ
November 22, 2020 10:14 pm
Reply to  ForeverKANGZ

Aging Lethal Weapon GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

Kings_Life_Sentence_86
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 3:12 pm
Reply to  ElRonToro

This one hits the feels.

CaliforniaJag
November 22, 2020 9:56 pm

If it comes to it: have any other franchises ever had success with fans protesting ownership in some way? I’m assuming there’s nothing we can do and we’re stuck with Vivek but curious if there’s ever been an instance of some sort of fan intervention. We’d love a winner but at the end of the day what we really want is a legitimate attempt at competence, and that seems highly unlikely if he keeps Jerry Jonesing it up.

Last edited 3 years ago by Brad Hill
Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:59 am
Reply to  CaliforniaJag

My guess (for whatever that is worth) is that there is a way for the ownership group/minority owners to supplant Vivek due to incompetence during his 7-8 years of being the person in charge. Maybe if there is enough rumblings from fans, and the team keeps losing money, then something will happen.

Peja
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 9:59 pm

Free agency news today was sad and frustrating, but we would have moved on and figured it out.

Vivek meddling news is just devastating

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 10:02 pm

I can’t f’n take this anymore from this jock-sniffing a-hole and his offspring. No more of this.

MitchRichmondThree
November 22, 2020 10:08 pm

It is really tough to be a Kings’ fan. Wednesday night we were feeling great about the draft despite the collapse of the sign and trade. Now everything has changed in less than 100 hours.

Earlier tonight, I was all for matching the offer for Bogi and running a line-up of Fox, Buddy, Bogi at the 1-3 with Haliburton as the super-sub, Barnes at the 4 and hopefully Bagley at the 5. Now, since Bogi really wants out, I think it may be just best to not match and move on. Of all the key players, Bogi seems least comfortable in a fast-paced environment. The one hope I still have is that the Kings play fast again as they keep talking about. They need an identity, and that is their identity. As the designated shooter who runs and runs, Buddy should do great in the fast-paced environment.

If Vivek is meddling again, all bets are off. We don’t know if McNair will be successful, but Vivek needs to give him a chance at least.

4on5
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:08 pm

The Sacramento learned their lesson last time and has a strong lease. Vivek has, by NBA standards, shallow pockets. Vivek seems to have thin skin.

If lots of people keep giving him their money, die hards take the €œhe’s not so bad spin€ as gospel, and he’s not James Dolan level unpopular in town … then no, he’s never going to change and he won’t sell for a long time.

If fans vote with their wallets, then for a time he will touch the stove less. At some point, if he swimming in equity, cash flow is often an issue and it no longer fun for him … maybe the 5th time is the charm for owners.

Sadly, McNair may need to fail to advance the Vivek timeline(s).

NotAlwaysLogic
Comments
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:13 pm

C’mon Sam Amick come up with a new story line. He has zero factual information, evidence, or proof that Vivek is meddling. These so-called beat writers come up with this BS for attention. Ham did it earlier today with the Miles Turner S&T story which was obvious BS. When these guys speculate for click-bait you can likely be assured the opposite is happening. Now Monte just wait the 47 hours and 59 minutes and then match!

BabyGiraffe
Admin
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:20 pm
Reply to  NotAlwaysLogic

Amick is the most trusted name in the Kingdom for a reason. If a writer of his caliber was looking for clickbait, he sure as hell wouldn’t waste his time with an unimportant, shit organization like the Sacramento Kings. No one cares about us, but us.

You may not enjoy the message, but questioning the messenger isn’t going to change reality.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:36 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

I mean that’s the thing, what’s the message man?

that it would be a bummer if Vivek and his son are meddling? That maybe this conundrum with Bogi and Buddy is associated with to many cooks in the kitchen?

that’s what he’s insinuating. Am I wrong?

hes insinuating that. He’s not backing up by even saying that he heard people rumbling about they’re meddling.

it’s true, I don’t want what he is speculating to be true but it’s pure speculation so I don’t see how one can rationally get mad about someone’s speculation about someone else.

maybe it wasn’t intended for clickbait. That’s my bad if that offends you. Sorry. It’s one of the big name things happening in free agency right now and people do care about outside of Sacramento, that’s why he’s writing about it. The Bogi signing wherever has turned in to theatre. He’s writing about because people are interested. He just speculated and many seem to be taking it as fact. That’s all I’m saying.

BabyGiraffe
Admin
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:44 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I think he’s insinuating that McNair has a vision for what he wants to do, and Vivek and his crew are already interfering with that plan.

Now, I for sure don’t know exactly how that relates to the Bogi situation. Does Vivek want to keep Bogi and McNair wants to let him walk? Or did McNair make one suggestion and Aneel said something else should happen? I wish we had more information about the specificity or severity of the €œmeddling€. I’m with you there.

In the end, I’m gonna look at the reputation of two individuals. Amick has proven himself as an upright and reliable reporter, while Vivek has proven himself to be a meddling owner who can’t get out of his own way and will make snap decisions without any hesitation, and I’m going to assume that both of those individuals haven’t suddenly switched their entire personalities around.

Could Amick be flat out misinformed? It’s possible (but unlikely), but I don’t think he’s the kind of journalist to report things just because they’re inflammatory. You’ve gotta imagine there’s a treasure trove of stories he’s heard that have never, ever seen the light of day because they can’t be fully corroborated.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:51 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

I agree with everything you say here basically except that I didn’t read what he wrote as €œreporting€ as in relaying factual information or piecing together reputable rumors and whispers in the hall. I read it as him simply speculating a situation and the challenges that are there. Just laying out for people what the Kings front office is facing and some of the issues in the past that could still be lingering.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:36 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Yeah, I have to agree with AT.

I don’t see much new information here. Vivek is a meddling owner, the Kings are no better off or worse off than they were before Amick’s report/tweet. If Amick heard something new, he didn’t do a great job saying what it was.

kings4ever
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 5:36 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

Name me an instance where Vivek mandated a particular player adding or subtracting. Is there any evidence of that?

Even going back to “Stauskas , Stauskas, Stauskas” I think he was just the most excited guy in the room when the GM at the time had targeted said player.

I do not think anyone ever reported that Vivek overrode the decision of the GM to take Stauskas.

I am not defending Vivek, I just want to know the nature of the meddling, he’s truly acting as the GM or is he perhaps just an overbearing intrusive personality ?

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 6:03 am
Reply to  kings4ever

I mean, we’re debating at this point whether Vivek has meddled at all…ever?

Come on now.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
November 23, 2020 8:16 am
Reply to  kings4ever

He literally told New Orleans Pelicans Buddy from the sidelines that, “We are going to get you” months before they traded for him.

Kosta
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 12:35 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

+1

…insert “STAUSKUS!” video

TrojanCBB
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 8:49 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

So if McNair’s vision is to let Bogi walk for nothing (because he is too old), but Vivek is saying we should match and try to get something for him later, why is that a bad thing? The owner is saying he will spend a shitload of money to not lose the asset for nothing.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 8:54 am
Reply to  TrojanCBB

That would definitely be a bad thing. Even if it turns out to be the right decision, it’s terrible process (and terrible precedent).

TrojanCBB
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 9:08 am
Reply to  Otis

I still believe that the final decision is McNair’s, not matter what “meddling” is going on.

I am just saying if part of the process is your owner telling the GM not to worry about the money, that seems like a good thing. Much better than the owner saying he can’t afford it.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 9:11 am
Reply to  TrojanCBB

I didn’t think we were talking about simply approving money to be spent.

TrojanCBB
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 9:21 am
Reply to  Otis

I guess I just dont understand on this Bogi issue, given how Amick framed it, what the “meddling” could be other than Vivek wanting to spend money.

Either way though, I think the decision is going to end up being McNair’s, as it should be.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 9:24 am
Reply to  TrojanCBB

I don’t see that in Sam’s tweets, but it’s certainly possible.

However, it’s pretty hard to imagine the financials haven’t been discussed between these guys already – I mean, there have always been a limited number of scenarios on the Bogdan front.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 9:28 am
Reply to  Otis

Adding – in my opinion, the owner (who isn’t qualified to understand team building) gives the person running his operations (and making those decisions) an idea of his budgeted salaries for the next few years.

If McNair and Ranadive agreed to those parameters, then McNair should get Ranadive’s input/approval if he’s breaching them for an unexpected occurrence or opportunity.

In my world, that’s not meddling, and I doubt it would be in McNair’s view (or Amick’s, for that matter).

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 9:54 am
Reply to  TrojanCBB

We are blaming the Bucks for a Woj victory lap. Maybe it was Vivek?

oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 10:42 am
Reply to  TrojanCBB

Bogi isn’t an asset for this team unless Buddy is traded. And if I remember correctly, if the Kings match, the team can’t trade him to any team other than the Hawks until mid-season and have to wait a year to trade him to the Hawks if they are still interested. Matching with the belief that the player can be traded down the road doesn’t always work out

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:48 pm
Reply to  oshima9

While I understand your point, an asset is an asset. It may gain or lose value dependent on other factors, but Bogi for $18M/yr is reasonable and tradeable.

In this current market where Joe Harris got 4/$75M ($18.75M/yr) and Bertans for 5/$80M ($16M/yr), I’d feel comfortable slotting Bogi between those players as I think Joe Harris is a little better than Bogi and Bogi is a much better player than Bertans but Bertans being elite at the most coveted of NBA skills, it makes sense why he was paid handsomely for it.

I don’t know what’s with all the hand-wringing about keeping a player of Bogi’s caliber for nothing more than his salary. Other than Bogi’s age, he is the exact type of player McNair is looking to acquire (versatile, high BBIQ, good shooter).

Last edited 3 years ago by NorCalKingsFan
Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 4:37 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

You need to reread that – he’s not speculating on Vivek’s involvement.

kings4ever
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 5:30 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

Yes but what form did the alleged meddling take? That is what I want to know.

If Vivek is rejecting trades and player signings and pushing for others, that is egregious meddling. But if he is inquiring as to the reasoning and basis for particular decisions, pending or completed, that is just being a overbearing nuisance.

Is Vivek just not getting out of the way and allowing full autonomy? This is a distinction that Amick does not delineate, as far as I can see. If you have a GM complaining about owner oversight, that is one thing, being overbearing and intrusively inquisitive.

But that is different than dictating or mandating particular moves. Meddling is draft this player, trade for this player, or this trade idea you submit to me I am rejecting because I don’t like it. Is there evidence of that or is there not?

If Sam Amick is so “respected and trusted” where is he to get down to the granularity of the issue, the heart of the story?

Lets not play games, here, stir up drama, and that is what he is doing without the complete context.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:29 pm
Reply to  NotAlwaysLogic

Happy to see I’m not the only one seeing this as a hit job. This seems like pure click bate stuff to me guys. Just sayin.

there’s no facts or even evidence to anything he said there except that his son helped hire Monte. And…? He was there for the process, he’s learning the business and will eventually be more involved maybe even take over 20 years from now.

insinuating that Vivek and his son are getting in the way of what Monte wants to do is bull shit in my book. Show me some evidence of that, don’t just say it. Look how everyone is reacting to your speculation because you’re supposedly reputable. Kinda disappointing by him I gotta say.

show me something real and I’ll very quickly be piling on to the frustration and anger that seems miss guided at this point. No offense to anyone. I get the gut reaction feel anger towards Vivek when someone like this puts a speculative report out like this. Bummer.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
SMF-PDXConnection
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:33 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I can understand this attitude. At the same time, it’s really a matter of credibility, and whether it’s deserved or not, the overwhelming majority of people in this fanbase and probably in the league at large give Amick more credibility than Vivek.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:44 pm

I give Amick WAAAAAAY more credibility then Vivek. 100%. If I didn’t hate when people say 110% I would say 110%.

Vivek has basically zero credibility when it comes to basketball related stuff.

that said, what my point comes down to is when I read all that from Amick I was ready to be very angry, my blood was boiling. Then I read it and was like €œwell there not much there, he’s just kinda thinking out loud, laying out the challenges the new GM might be facing and need to be cautious of.€ No biggie.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 4:39 am

LOL, this. A guy with Amick’s reputation doing clickbait…on the Kings? GTFO. Arco might need to step away for a bit.

NotAlwaysLogic
Comments
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:36 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Yea agree just seems like an unnecessary jab with zero credibility behind it.

BabyGiraffe
Admin
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:36 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Two questions I think you should contemplate using when looking at this situation:

In his dozens of years of insider information regarding the Kings, how many times has Sam Amick been completely, dead wrong, Amico-style?

What kind of €œevidence€ would you like to see? A reporter would never give up his sources, whether they’re minor ones like we sometimes have here at TKH or major ones like Sam does. If he talked to 3 or 5 or 8 people involved in the situation, and they all shared the same reliable info, how should he €œprove€ those conversations took place?

When looking at these kinds of reports, the only real way we have to determine the veracity is to look at the relatability and consistency of the one sharing the info. If this was Skip Bayless saying this stuff, it would be an entirely different conversation.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:39 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

But he didn’t. Not in my reading of his comments. Seemed like he was just speculating. Did t really reference talking to multiple sources close to the organization or anything like that.

i seem to be getting turned in to a Vivek apologist here and that is Sooooooooooo far from the case when it comes to me. Just so you know.

NotAlwaysLogic
Comments
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:47 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

I just re-read the statement from Sam and honestly all he is giving is his opinion. If you want to believe Sam’s opinion based on his past credibility that’s fine. But I guess I don’t agree with a reporter dropping an opinion that he knows will create overreactions. But then again I wouldn’t be reading his statements and debating on this great platform if he wouldn’t have dropped his opinion. So there you go. It’s working for him.

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:15 pm
Reply to  NotAlwaysLogic

Amick lives in Sacramento (I don’t know his actual address so metro area). He is a member of this community. He went from local beat writer to national NBA reporter based on being good at what he does. If you think he would jeopardize his job by pretending his speculation is sourced reporting then you haven’t been paying attention to who he is, and what he’s about.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 12:50 am
Reply to  RORDOG

I dont think anyone is insinuating that Amick is making shit up.

I can only speak for myself and interpret what Not always Logic said. What I gather, Amick is only stating his opinion or just explaining a situation to his followers. He’s explaining what he thinks the challenges are and some other things that have caused issues in the past. Amick even introduces the tweet comments he posted with “Heres some thoughts”, thats all it is, just some thoughts not anything that is necessarily facts he’s relaying to us. I dont think any one is questioning Amicks integrity here. I certainly am not doing that.

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 23, 2020 1:31 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

he wouldn’t put that out there if his thoughts were not fact-based. I just think you probably haven’t read his articles or heard his interviews, so you don’t understand how careful he is to always separate his opinion from intel.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 4:41 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

His statement of Vivek’s involvement isn’t written as speculation.

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:18 pm
Reply to  Otis

I may be misinterpreting others posts, but it seems to me the “opposition” take is that this is not new.

Is it really news that Vivek is still Vivek and Kings GMs will have to deal with a meddling owner?

I don’t think Amick is lying, I just don’t think this is anything other than what Vivek has always done, its just a new post about the owner doing the same thing he’s always done, this time to a new GM. I too wish he wouldn’t do it, but its who he is; I would argue that anyone who thought he would change was being a little naive.

I was fairly relieved that this was the only thing Amick reported, my initial concern when seeing the headline was that Vivek said something publicly that harmed negotiations of some sort.

154-98
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:39 pm
Reply to  NotAlwaysLogic

User name checks out.

BeTheBall
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 10:51 pm
Reply to  NotAlwaysLogic

Username checks out.

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:37 pm
Reply to  NotAlwaysLogic

Us ername checks out.

SMF-PDXConnection
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:16 pm

And this is why, as I sit in my apartment as the rain falls in Portland, I instead choose to give my emotional energy to the positive moves the Blazers made this weekend.

Sacramento, I love you, I miss you, but damn, we need better basketball owners.

Marty
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 7:54 am

Kudos to the front office exec who felt obligated to alert Sam.

Sounds like this insider wants what we want.

BabyGiraffe
Admin
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:21 pm

This team is exhausting. That’s all I’ve really got for analysis.

BabyGiraffe
Admin
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 10:48 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

…proceeds to analyze the messages in the comments and debate with people as to the reliability of the report.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:59 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

Just to re address what you and I are €œdebating€ here.

I don’t think the messenger is unreliable. I just think the message is a sharing of information on situation that has some challenges that not all fans are likely aware of. In addition to the money challenges and tradability challenges are the possibility of to many cooks in the kitchen which in the past was a problem. He doesn’t know if that’s happening now, he’s just saying that maybe it could be considering how hectic and discombobulated the whirlwind of Bogis free agency has been.

I will stop now.

love discussing all this tuff with you guys and getting al worked up over a game we love. 🙂

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
BabyGiraffe
Admin
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
November 22, 2020 11:35 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Well I hate you and you’re wrong and you’re stupid and you’re banned for life.

Just kidding – Greg lost the ban hammer in the move.

Klam
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
November 23, 2020 10:29 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

So Greg DOES secretly wish he was still part of the website-that-shall-not-be-named! 😉

dreadpiratened
November 22, 2020 10:23 pm

When Vivek bought the team to keep it here, did anyone look around to see if a monkey paw curled its finger?

AmphibiousHandle
November 22, 2020 10:23 pm

The fact that Hield is untradeable is a major problem too.

ForKingsandCountry
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 10:24 pm

I mean… here we are again. I don’t know. Every time one of these articles comes out it gets a little bit easier not to care. The apathy will be real at some point and I think we’re getting there.

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 10:38 pm

Spoiler alert: this will be a negative post, and from someone who has never been to Sacramento, no less.

Is anyone surprised?

People do not change easily. People beyond a certain age do change even less easily. Dismissive little people who are full of themselves change the least of them all.

Being a minority owner of a franchise – who solely by agreement has the majority owner tag – and using the franchiser as his own personal toy and giving his unqualified son an important role is a huge red flag.

Having such an owner make a new GM accept the existing coach keeping the current (bad) coach, for whatever reason, is a red flag.

Creating a new management structure with two people (Monte and Dumars) reporting individually to the owner on basketball matters, no matter how you spin it, is a red flag.

When some guys started the #HereWeBillboard action, our initial message was that Vivek had to go (and take Vlade/Matina with him). Vlade was seen as a symptom, not the disease. Ultimately we got convinced that it was an unattainable goal and we shifted our sights to Vlade, but as is becoming clear now, it was not really about Vlade.

Maybe Monte was too convinced of his own ability to navigate the political waters here, maybe he thought it wouldn’t be so bad. Maybe he jumped ship from Houston, reading the situation and ownership there, and thinking it could not be worse. i don’t know. He has a tall task ahead of him, but he stepped into it with eyes wide open.

Is Monte the one pursuing Hassan Whiteside, or is Vivek pushing for him? Does Monte have free hand to either match Bogi, or are financials constricting him and/or is Vivek unwilling to entertain the thought of trading his favorite, Buddy? We don’tr know, and we go back to second-guessing every FO move.

But I am sure we will convince ourselves that things will be better. This is a perfect year for a tanking shit-show, right?

Last edited 3 years ago by RikSmits
Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
November 22, 2020 10:52 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Your negativity is fine with me. Certainly warranted.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 11:07 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I get your initial anger. When I started reading my mood was boiling and I was ready to explode. However I think it’s more speculation then fact. So maybe we shouldn’t be getting so pissed off? I mean I get it, there’s reason to be super pissed if in fact vivek and now his son are meddling. However I don’t see where Amick said he knows this is happening or that other people are whispering about this possibly happening.

not telling you to not be mad, you do you. I mean, if you read any of my comments earlier I’m still super pissed off about Monte not going out of his way to bring back Giles. I need someone to talk me down from that stupid decision.

i think you just made a very good point (room for Vivek meddling speculation) about Buddy here. Will Vivek allow Monte to trade Buddy? It’s what seems to be the smart play that most pundits around the league agree with but yet we hear about a disgruntled buddy staying and a happy more talented Bogi leaving.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
MillersCornrows
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 11:46 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Curious what you thought about the dealings with Harry Giles ArcoThunder. Could he have been a legitimate starter with the Kings this season?

Last edited 3 years ago by MillersCornrows
RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:51 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I doubt that it is speculation.

  1. like written by others above; Amick is well connected and is usually spot on;
  2. given how Vivek acted in the past, it is par for the course. And as I noted here above, it is par for the course;
  3. the Whiteside interest appears to run completely counter with what Monte seems to seek, it looks like evidence of the Ranadive clan meddling.

I am curious if Jerry would be able or willing to lift a bit of the veil during the next podcast. I was pleasantly surprised that he didn’t shy from some critical comments about the former FO and some players in the first two podcasts. All stated in the polite, friendly Jerry-manner, but still.

I am not even angry; just despondent and moving towards apathetic. Which is worse than anger.

Last edited 3 years ago by RikSmits
RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:58 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I have to admit, I think I was wrong about the Whiteside thing. I assumed it was a thing that a savvy GM would come up with. If you can get a guy at a discount due to his reputation, then you might be able to flip him at the deadline if he exceeds the artificially low expectations. Now it just seems like Aneel had Whiteside on his full MLE wishlist.

markdog333
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 7:17 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Yeah, I think it already broadly known that Vivek and now Aneel are heavily involved. The hope is that McNair has the gravitas and judgement to weight the opinions of those around him appropriately . He has to understand that as the GM, he is the one who will held accountable for the end result.

Last edited 3 years ago by markdog333
oshima9
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 10:46 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Insightful analysis

Kings_Life_Sentence_86
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 3:23 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Hey RikSmits, I heard your RikSmits question to Jerry on the podcast. Welp, see ya later.

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 10:17 pm

Hah, yeah, that was great.

BeTheBall
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 10:47 pm

It was bad enough that we we’re a team run by a guy who thought he was an expert because he coached his daughter’s rec-league team and won games. Now we have his trust fund baby sticking his nose in, too.

Kangz as usual.

02kingsfan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Vivek’s presence is like the ex lover of yours who wouldn’t and couldn’t let you move on with your life. I am actually okay with Aneel being involved since he advocated for picking Doncic. I am actually okay with letting Bogi walk and chuck it up as the damages from the previous regime. But if Vivek is again in the center of the issues I think that would be a more serious problem.

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
November 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Welcome to Sacramento, Tyrese!

Kosta
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:42 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

comment image

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
November 23, 2020 9:56 am
Reply to  Kosta

Perfection.

ManilaBayCleanerCrew
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 22, 2020 11:01 pm

F*ck this org, can’t get its act together with their previous meddling and now this. God f*cking dammit Vivek, let the man do his damn job!!!

NotAlwaysLogic
Comments
Comments
November 22, 2020 11:02 pm

The problem is that Vivek has a challenging financial situation here that Monty has to also work within.

Last edited 3 years ago by Bobert Horstpower
aljout
Original Member
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:08 pm

Y’all know what the worst part is? Nowadays the fan base is so broken and apathetic that we probably couldn’t rise up and try to oust Vivek. Back during the relocation controversy, everyone banded together because we were passionate and proud about our team. Can anyone say that now? Cause I can’t.

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:56 pm
Reply to  aljout

Yup. I can only see it happening if people with a large following like Carmichael Dave start to lead the charge in that respect.

Kosta
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:58 pm
Reply to  aljout

I understand the apathy. It makes perfect sense and I feel bad for Kings fans. We all deserve so much better than this for all of the years we paid money to watch games and supported the team. Sacramento fans deserve a competently-run, competitive team to root for.

That being said, I will help if anyone wants to make something like The Billboard.

Though like SMF-PDX pointed out maybe a billboard won’t be so effective at this time, with no normal daily commutes like before, and lots of people staying home.

So social media might be a possible option.

Or how about an Op-ed in the Sacramento Bee for the TKH folks who are also part of that circle?

What if we all wrote letters to The Bee? Overwhelm them with our letters so that they might feel compelled to write about how unhappy the fanbase is?

I know it’s not likely to oust Vivek, but maybe there is some way that it does help? Maybe it gives the other owners some kind of proof to show that the fans are not happy with his stewardship so that maybe they can put more pressure on him to stop meddling?

At the very least, it gives fans a voice to speak their minds and let Vivek know. Maybe he doesn’t know? Maybe he’s surrounded by sycophants who keep all the negative opinions out?

If nothing else, you can feel like you tried something, rather than just felt helpless.

Just thinking out loud right now…

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 12:22 am
Reply to  Kosta

Yeah, a billboard won’t work now.
Not going to games is already happening.
Picketing in crowds is a bad idea.

It has to be social media, IMO.
Something like: “Vivek was NOT voted as representative for life of Kings ownership. We demand a recount!” ?

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:32 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I heard its not that hard to overturn others’ decisions:

I hereby declare that Vivek is no longer the representative owner for the Sacramento Kings.

Last edited 3 years ago by NorCalKingsFan
RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:26 pm

It’s an odd situation. One would think that the broke owner (by NBA owner standards) would be happy to not shell out millions of dollars for players that won’t impact the win total in any meaningful way. It seems like Kings fans understand, better than the owners, that McNair is trying to build this team the right way.

At least we’re all debating the asset value of various free agents. Vivek seems to just be upset that McNair is dismantling the shitty team Vivek helped build.

Want2win
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
November 23, 2020 11:27 am
Reply to  RORDOG

How do we know he is trying to build it the right way? What is the right way? Is his idea of the right way going to make the Fans happy?

Kosta
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:45 pm

comment image

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 22, 2020 11:50 pm
Reply to  Kosta

comment image?itemid=18210872

richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 12:35 am
Reply to  Kosta

What does Anthony Davis have to do w/this situation?

ZillersCat
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:59 am
Reply to  Kosta

We are getting Unibrow .. I’m listening!

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 9:31 am
Reply to  ZillersCat

Only if LeBron tells him he can

RAP87
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 12:15 am

Oh for F’s sake! Does this dismissive little chap haven’t learned anything yet??!!

VIVEK, STOP MEDDLING AROUND YOU FOOL! Let Mcnair and his staff do their jobs and get the heck out of the way! Pretty sure he might also be influencing Mcnair on what to do with the Bogi situation. We all know how Vivek likes Buddy so much that he might want Mcnair to get rid of Bogi and keep Buddy no matter what.

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 23, 2020 12:26 am

This may be the most important part:
€Haliburton pushed his way to Sac, partly because he thought he could fit with Fox€

This isn’t about wanting players who want to be here, so don’t twist my words. it appears to me that Tyrese believes in McNair’s vision for the future of this team. Maybe I’m drinking the kool aid here, but I think McNair believes he now has a promising backcourt combination built for the modern NBA.

Every move made moving forward should be based on how it will impact the Fox/Haliburton tandem’s ability to flourish.

I don’t want to act like this is a mulligan on the Doncic thing, but it at least gives them a chance to reset the timeline around two playmakers with complimentary skillsets. If Bogi’s presence will inhibit their ability to thrive, then Bogi’s got to go. Or to put it another way, if they can’t trade Buddy, then Bogi’s gone based on a process of elimination.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 1:08 am
Reply to  RORDOG

Really this all hinges on this possibility that Amick is presenting, that Buddy has no trade value. If this is being relayed to him then you have to believe theres some real truth to that. Theres nothing wrong with Monte taking 48 hours to try and find a buddy Hield trade partner before letting Bogi walk for nothing. I definitely see the challenge and extremely difficult decision in keeping Bogi if Buddy is un tradable. That means you have two SG’s making basically 40 million between the two of them and you literally can’t trade either of them for at least one full season. Meanwhile you drafted a guy that you think is a big part of your future and possibly better than both. It’s a shit sammy for Monte.

If buddy is un tradable then so be it. It just sucks and thats that, not Monte’s fault. Wish the bucks and or Bogi didnt F up that DD sign and trade.

That said, we see crazy contracts being traded all the time. How buddy the contract + player has zero value doesnt compute. It’s not like he is grossly over paid for what he does and he is really good at what he does. Do you have to give up a little extra to move him like Justin James or Parker or Holmes? Maybe, and I’m ok with that if it means we lock up the better player in Bogi for less money. Plus, you gotta account for the decent return for buddy which you’d think that at worst would net you some expiring contracts and a late first round pick. I’m good with that and I’d bet Monte could find something better. I would think anyways.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 23, 2020 1:40 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I just think if it were that easy to trade Buddy for future cap space and young assets, then Buddy would already be gone. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen. It just means it’s not as easy as we’ve collectively felt it would be.

I also think we’re all probably underestimating the possibility that going into the season with both Bogi and Buddy could turn into a bit of a shitshow. We already know Buddy is more than willing to rock the boat. Now we also know Bogi has done everything in his power to force his way out of here. Is anybody sure how they’ll react if McNair and Walton prioritize Halliburton’s development over what’s in the best interests of two disgruntled shooting guards?

jswilliams37
November 23, 2020 3:14 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Now we also know Bogi has done everything in his power to force his way out of here.

How has he done this? All he’s done is pushed the Kings to pay him more money.

AmphibiousHandle
November 23, 2020 6:26 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Did you see the part of the report where it said Hield has no market?

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 1:42 am
Reply to  RORDOG

Actually, this part is my sole reason for possibly doubting Amick’s report.

That whole “Haliburton pushed his way to Sac” story sounds moronic, just stuff that his agent may have floated to cover for his fall. No one in his right mind would give up millions of dollars for being a higher pick for the “privilege”to play for the lowly Kings. The difference between being picked sixth or 12th is about $ 5.5 million in the first 3 years alone.

If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

For what it is worth (a lot to me), Jerry also scoffed as this story in the podcast.

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 23, 2020 2:03 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Jerry also said Kobe successfully scared teams away from drafting him in order to push his way to the Lakers.

At this point there have been multiple insiders who have all said the same thing: Sacramento was one of Halliburton’s preferred destinations, and he did what he could to help ensure he landed in one of his preferred destinations. Everybody saying it’s too good to be true just sounds like people claiming every news story they disagree with is fake news.

RikSmits
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 2:16 am
Reply to  RORDOG

And Jerry also suggested that no GM worth his salt would have been scared off by an unwilling Haliburton.

I gave arguments for why the story is unbelievable, I did not just say it is too good to be true. And you come back with is the Kobe example from 25 years ago?

I suppose there are also people claiming every news story they agree with is absolutely true.

Last edited 3 years ago by RikSmits
Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 4:47 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I think that’s the piece that’s being ignored here:

And Jerry also suggested that no GM worth his salt would have been scared off by an unwilling Haliburton.

GMs aren’t just going to say “uh, ok”. You’d think someone would have picked him just based on asset valuation and forced the Kings to trade up into a draft slot.

So while Tyrese may have been trying to maneuver himself, he was likely a bit of a falling knife anyway.

RORDOG
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
November 23, 2020 7:24 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Haliburton received a promise from the Kings that they would pick him if he was available at #12, or even move up to get him if needed. Haliburton said as much. That gave Haliburton the ability to pick and choose who he worked out with, and send his medical to, in the top 10. We know this because he only worked out for 4 total teams even though there were additional teams that had interest in him.

We don’t know if his efforts ultimately mattered, but multiple experts seem to think that his plan was successful steering him to one of his preferred destinations.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 7:36 am
Reply to  RORDOG

Did he work out for the Kings?

jswilliams37
November 23, 2020 3:16 pm
Reply to  Otis

No

Sir_tajj
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 9:45 am
Reply to  RORDOG

I agree with you guys. If it is infact true, I don’t think Haliburton or his agent would’ve sacrificed that kind of money to play behind buddy/Bogi. They must’ve told him about getting younger around fox. Which makes sense since they already had a deal in place for Bogi. I think by keeping Bogi and not trading buddy we might actually upset his camp as well.

AmphibiousHandle
November 23, 2020 6:29 am
Reply to  RORDOG

We may be reading a little too much into that report. I got the sense that there were a couple teams in the top 10 he wanted to stay away from (hypothetically, a Cleveland or similar). I’m less convinced he was trying to get to a particular team, much less that the Kings were a top choice.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 4:45 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Actually, Sam reporting it now makes me think it could be true, unless he’s just working off Givony’s reporting (and I can’t imagine Sam doing that).

It’s still illogical in many ways. But Sam doesn’t appear to be speculating.

Brown.says.Good.or.Bad
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 12:32 am

This is bad

reydarly
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 1:17 am

Isn’t it funny how all the perpetually bad teams in the league have bad/meddling owners. Seriously if this type of ownership doesn’t work for MICHAEL JORDAN it definitely won’t work for Vivek. Yes the Hornets are better, but they are forever a middling team that cant get over the hump which is just as disappointing in my opinion especially in the eastern conference. This situation is just sickening. This franchise has no business being an after thought subject to half-a**ed takes from the greater national media (see the whole Fox doesn’t want to be here rumors that were just debunked). All due to poor ownership. That is the most frustrating thing to me. As soon as we hear the doorknob jingling and see light breaking through the door it gets slammed shut by inept ownership. Why hire people if you are gonna do their job for them?

Last edited 3 years ago by Daryl Adams
SuperShaka
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 1:40 am

There are no reports of Vivek meddling. There’s only speculation within Amick’s tweet. I think we’ve all had questions whether Vivek would empower the GM without getting too involved before we even knew it would be McNair.

So someone, while in conversation with a journalist, asks if it’s possible Vivek tries to make McNair match Bogi so they don’t lose him for nothing? I’ll give McNair a chance to do something before I try to decipher if he made the decision on his own it not.

Why chase rain clouds if you don’t like getting wet?

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 4:50 am
Reply to  SuperShaka

That part of Sam’s tweet isn’t speculation IMO.

Some of that certainly is his opinion of the situation, but the comments on Vivek and his son, Tyrese moving himself to Sacramento and Buddy’s trade value are the factual underpinnings of his opinions.

SuperShaka
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:54 am
Reply to  Otis

There are questions already arising about whether Ranadive is truly empowering McNair.

That seems speculative to me.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 7:38 am
Reply to  SuperShaka

It was literally the sentence right before that in the same tweet:

With Kings owner Vivek Randive known to be extremely involved as always, and with the increasing influence of his son, Aneel, McNair finds himself facing similar forces of past Kings GMs.

That ain’t speculative.

SuperShaka
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 10:40 am
Reply to  Otis

I agree. But that’s stating how Ranadive had run poorly the organization thus far and referencing Aneel’s increased involvement are both things we’ve known for months.

There is no new information on that front except the active questioning on IF McNair is free to make his own decisions. I would argue that those doubts have rightfully been present since day one and I’m not going to get worked up because someone else expressed that Vivek could find a way to ruin even a competent front office.

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 10:43 am
Reply to  SuperShaka

But that’s stating how Ranadive had run poorly the organization thus far and referencing Aneel’s increased involvement are both things we’ve known for months.comment image

SuperShaka
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 10:54 am
Reply to  Otis

Aneel was involved in the GM interview process in September, months ago. Vivek has been Viveking since he got the team.
Where do you disagree?

Otis
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 11:06 am
Reply to  SuperShaka

I disagree about Sam’s intent here…I don’t agree he’s referring exclusively to the past. That’s not at all how it reads to me.

SuperShaka
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 11:35 am
Reply to  Otis

Okay. I think it’s unclear the writing is referring new instances but maybe that’s intentional. I won’t be surprised if there comes a time when Vivek makes a mess of things but I’m going to wait until there is something specific before I wish further.

I mean Vivek has gotten better throughout the years if only slightly.
After Petey he learned to stay out of the press, after Vlade he learned he should hire someone who has a clue as to how the job works. Who’s to say he can’t figure out how to let BB Ops do their jobs without his constant input? Maybe he won’t have to fire McNair before the lesson is learned! I’m feeling optimistic… For now

SuperShaka
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 10:50 am
Reply to  SuperShaka

I don’t know if Vivek can stay out of his own way this time around but I’m going to wait until he does to get pissed. Mainly because I can’t do anything about it since he owns the team.
My only option is to give up on the Kings and I’m not ready to take that action yet. If he does get in McNair’s way by a meaningful measure, then I may find myself at a crossroads. But until someone can tell me what Vivek has done to hinder the current FO, I’ll call it speculation.

Marty
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 11:30 am
Reply to  SuperShaka

Here’s a tip.

We have a shitty owner. A-list free agents aren’t coming here. Drafting a superstar remains difficult. Enjoy the games as best you can, but don’t lose any sleep over it.

As a fan of this team I’m not expecting a parade.

G-naps
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 11:37 am
Reply to  Marty

As a fan of this team I’m not expecting a parade.

Ugghh thats a painful one to read. To think there was a time when we were really close to a championship team. Unfortunately in todays NBA super team landscape the Kings would need to bat 1.000 on every move for the next 3-4 years and that still wouldnt guarantee a championship.

ForKingsandCountry
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 11:37 am
Reply to  Marty

I have to say, I really reset my expectations after they passed on Luka and it does make being a fan much easier. I just don’t get as worked up about them screwing up as I used to.

Marty
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 12:04 pm

Exactly.

I like following the team, and I like going to games. I’m able to do both of these things while completely understanding that WC seeds 1-4 are highly unlikely.

For me, watching Demarcus play was WAY more difficult. Within one quarter I would say €œWhy are you here again you dumbass.€

ForKingsandCountry
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
November 23, 2020 1:04 pm
Reply to  Marty

The Cousins experience was just exhausting. My wife and I were at his 56 point game double OT game against Charlotte and even while having a career game he managed to get himself thrown out in OT and the Kings lost. Even when he was at the peak of his basketball playing powers he couldn’t help but be a catalyst for losing.

Last edited 3 years ago by ForKingsandCountry
SuperShaka
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 11:38 am
Reply to  Marty

My hope is we’ve stopped the parade of dunces running the basketball side!

Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 11:41 am
Reply to  SuperShaka

With Vivek leading the way, the Kings could bring in Jerry West, Sam Presti, Pat Riley, etc. and Vivek would still be doubting them and trying to influence basketball moves. It is just who he is at this point. He will never change.

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 6:56 pm
Reply to  Marty

This is where I am at as well.

J-Fresh
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 2:23 am

I think I have Viveks priorities figured out right now:

$$$ > Buddy > Good Basketball

If he likes Buddy that much, then I can’t think of another reason why Walton is still here.

If that list is reversed, he would be about the Benjamins, all day long and I wouldn’t care abut his Ego

J-Fresh
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 2:24 am

What’s Viveks daughter’s name again? She has actually played some form of winning basketball, might as well give her a go. Seems more qualified than the rest of the fam.

Inthestarz
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
November 23, 2020 2:30 am

What’s the point of this now?

vivek forcing a retaining of Bogdan?

NotAlwaysLogic
Comments
Comments
November 23, 2020 8:09 am
Reply to  Inthestarz

Good question, what is the point of Sam’s speculation, other than to stir up the KH faithful? If he thinks Vivek is not giving Monty full control does that mean a Bogi match or not?

SirPatricio
November 23, 2020 2:41 am