Sunday was a tough day for Kings fans. Bogdan Bogdanovic signed an offer sheet with the Atlanta Hawks, and it’s unclear if the Kings will match or lose Bogi for nothing. Harry Giles signed with the Trail Blazers. Kent Bazemore signed with the Warriors. In one day the Kings may have lost three players that had endeared themselves to fans, particularly Harry and Bogi.
The cherry on top of the turd sundae is a new report from The Athletic’s Sam Amick that Vivek Ranadive may be up to his old meddling way. Sam is as in tune with the Kings as anyone, so where he says something is happening, there’s reason to believe him.
A few Sunday night thoughts on the Bogdanovic situation, via our “Real-Time” feature in the @TheAthletic app (all of our folks are constantly adding tidbits/perspective there that’s available to non-subscribers, FYI) pic.twitter.com/eeD1qwknrG
— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) November 23, 2020
There’s a lot there, so before we get to Vivek, let’s talk about everything else.
McNair has a plan
Amick says that part of what McNair will weigh when deciding whether or not to match Bogi is the market for Buddy Hield. The logic is that it doesn’t make sense to run it back with Bogi and Buddy fighting over the starting role. It’s maximizes neither player, and buries Tyrese Haliburton in the rotation.
Amick adds that part of McNair’s pitch to earn his job was building the Kings around De’Aaron Fox, and surrounding Fox with players who fit his timeline. Haliburton is two years younger. Bagley fits that timeline. And in the failed sign-and-trade with Milwaukee the Kings would have gotten Donte DiVincenzo who would have also fit the timeline.
This framework also aligns with other things we’ve seen. HoopsHype’s Michael Scotto reported earlier Sunday that the Kings didn’t seek to retain Bazemore, specifically because they want to get younger.
It seems clear that McNair has a goal for the type of players he wants to add, and the primary factor is how they fit with Fox. However, if McNair wants to build young around Fox, one has to wonder where rumors of Sacramento’s interest in Hassan Whiteside are coming from. Whiteside is 31 years old and wouldn’t fit it all with Fox’s style of play.
Vivek’s meddling
It’s absolutely insane to be hearing that Vivek is meddling in basketball ops so early in Monte McNair’s tenure. Vivek was too involved when Pete D’Alessandro was in charge, and it ended badly. There were constant reports of Vivek’s involvement in Vlade’s reign, including an attempt to insert Joe Dumars above Vlade at the end of last season, and it ended badly.
We had also heard that Aneel Ranadive had been involved in GM interviews, which I actually didn’t have a problem with. But if he’s now exerting influence over basketball decisions then it does nothing but compound the Vivek problem. Too many cooks in the kitchen is a problem even if all the cooks are qualified. When it comes to basketball decisions, Vivek and Aneel are not.
Vivek seems like a smart guy outside of basketball, but he can’t seem to recognize the obvious pattern that he has been chairman of the Kings for seven and a half years and his meddling has never once helped the Kings be successful on the court.
The Kings hired an experienced, intelligent executive to run their basketball team. It’s time to stop making the same mistake over and over, and instead get the hell out of the way and let McNair do his job.
No. Greg, the answer is no.
I’m tired.
Vivek is the slowest learning smart guy I’ve ever met.
That’s if he’s even learning…..i think for a man like him who came from nothing and worked his way into becoming a billionaire there are some level of arrogances that comes with it.
This a thousand times over. Rich guys think they’re smarter than everyone else about everything.
LOL that you think Vivek is learning.
The answer to this is obvious: No. And just when I thought the Kings might act like a professional franchise, this same crap keeps surfacing.
All things being equal….oh shit it’s the real world where there’s no such thing. You don’t get your cake and eat it too.
I really fucking hate this franchise right now (and I wish I didn’t), and I really hate Vivek Ranadive’s stewardship of this franchise. Sucking donkey balls would be a dramatic improvement for him.
Un. Fucking. Believable.
This news is literally the cherry on top a shit Sund(ae)y
Yep, same as it ever was in the Kangdom. One step forward (the draft), followed by a step back. End result: We go nowhere.
I think these tidbits by Amick are just preparing us for what is to come. His sources are likely inside the org, and they carry water for Vivek. Basically, Vivek wants Buddy. Monte probably wants Bogi. I’m sure there are suitors for Buddy, but no offers that meet Vivek’s lofty standards for his prized 2 guard. So Monte’s hands are tied, and now we are likely to lose Bogi (the better, more valuable all around player between the two) … for nothing.
Interesting they say Bogi wants out. Bogi is a professional basketball player. He wants to get paid fairly. ATL gave him a fair offer. We would be wise to match. If Bogi does want out, it is because he sees how this Mickey Mouse operation runs here under Vivek.
So in summary, Bogi’s gone. The org is in damage control feeding their sources bullshit about why that’s OK. Just look at our shiny new draft pick.
Maybe we get REAL close to that 9th seed this year. Or likely another draft pick 8-12. Never contending. Never relevant. Kangz.
I suspect that in a few years we may learn that it was Vivek whispering Marvin in Vlade’s ear in 2018. Would fit a long pattern.
Yes. And 1 thing, Vivek… F*** You.
Seriously, it takes a huge ego and an asshole to not see HE is the problem. And now he’s bringing his son in? Really gross behavior.
We may need another billboard.
What good will a billboard do? It’s not like people would see it since we’re all (or most of us) staying home.
i meant eventually. Obviously, not now.
I was trying to say a measure like billboard/etc may be needed in order to try to do something to stop the next 20 years of Vivek’s ineptitude and ego.
Hard to fathom an ego so big you’d screw an entire city and fan base. He is an unbelievably selfish human being.
A billboard isn’t going to do anything to change Vivek operating the team.
For what it’s worth, I don’t believe this to be true. Vlade never wavered from standing by that decision as his own, and acknowledged that while he thought Doncic would be good, he didn’t think he’d be this good, and he thought Bagley was a better fit.
I think part of the reason it was leaked that Bagley was the pick to keep Vivek from taking Doncic. The FO had a vision, and strangely Vivek later changed his mind that it was a good idea.
You can never trust Vivek Ranadive is the moral of this story.
“It doesn’t make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” — Steve Jobs
“I hire people brighter than me and get out of their way.” — Lee Iacocca
“Work like a jazz band.” — Vivek Ranadive
Stupid is as stupid does Forrest Gump
Vivek’s mantra from the tech world was to “fail quickly and move on”. It’s time to move on from owning this basketball team.
Technically neither Bogi nor Buddy meet the timeline if that’s what Vivek or McNair want-they are both a few years older than Fox/Bagley. Keep them both to start the season. One or both can be traded later. I think Vivek is still learning about patience and I suspect McNair already understands the concept based on what he saw in Houston. I’m optimistic. And patient given my commitment to this team since the 1980s. It doesn’t hurt to have too many good players. Well, I’m not the one paying the bills for this team during a pandemic so maybe it does hurt. But this season is gonna hurt anyways. This is my first post on this site but I’ve been lurking for awhile. Kudos to the amazing and committed writers here at the Herald.
It’s interesting to hear that the market is tepid for Buddy. So it does make you wonder how movable he is. Because he or Bogi would need to be moved at some point.
Truth be told, I highly doubt either one is on the next Kings playoff team.
At this point, I’m not sure there IS a next Kings playoff team.
Yeah we have reached the point that the idea of the Kings making the playoffs at some point is purely theoretical.
The proof is in the pudding. If McNair finds a way to trade Buddy in order to match Bogi, we are OK and making the best out of a bad situation. Hopefully, McNair knows how to manage Vivek’s ego while making good decisions. I mean, it’s not like he didn’t know what he was getting into when he took the job, so I assume he has some idea on how to deal with it.
I’m getting too old for this shit
//:0
This one hits the feels.
If it comes to it: have any other franchises ever had success with fans protesting ownership in some way? I’m assuming there’s nothing we can do and we’re stuck with Vivek but curious if there’s ever been an instance of some sort of fan intervention. We’d love a winner but at the end of the day what we really want is a legitimate attempt at competence, and that seems highly unlikely if he keeps Jerry Jonesing it up.
My guess (for whatever that is worth) is that there is a way for the ownership group/minority owners to supplant Vivek due to incompetence during his 7-8 years of being the person in charge. Maybe if there is enough rumblings from fans, and the team keeps losing money, then something will happen.
Free agency news today was sad and frustrating, but we would have moved on and figured it out.
Vivek meddling news is just devastating
I can’t f’n take this anymore from this jock-sniffing a-hole and his offspring. No more of this.
It is really tough to be a Kings’ fan. Wednesday night we were feeling great about the draft despite the collapse of the sign and trade. Now everything has changed in less than 100 hours.
Earlier tonight, I was all for matching the offer for Bogi and running a line-up of Fox, Buddy, Bogi at the 1-3 with Haliburton as the super-sub, Barnes at the 4 and hopefully Bagley at the 5. Now, since Bogi really wants out, I think it may be just best to not match and move on. Of all the key players, Bogi seems least comfortable in a fast-paced environment. The one hope I still have is that the Kings play fast again as they keep talking about. They need an identity, and that is their identity. As the designated shooter who runs and runs, Buddy should do great in the fast-paced environment.
If Vivek is meddling again, all bets are off. We don’t know if McNair will be successful, but Vivek needs to give him a chance at least.
The Sacramento learned their lesson last time and has a strong lease. Vivek has, by NBA standards, shallow pockets. Vivek seems to have thin skin.
If lots of people keep giving him their money, die hards take the he’s not so bad spin as gospel, and he’s not James Dolan level unpopular in town … then no, he’s never going to change and he won’t sell for a long time.
If fans vote with their wallets, then for a time he will touch the stove less. At some point, if he swimming in equity, cash flow is often an issue and it no longer fun for him … maybe the 5th time is the charm for owners.
Sadly, McNair may need to fail to advance the Vivek timeline(s).
C’mon Sam Amick come up with a new story line. He has zero factual information, evidence, or proof that Vivek is meddling. These so-called beat writers come up with this BS for attention. Ham did it earlier today with the Miles Turner S&T story which was obvious BS. When these guys speculate for click-bait you can likely be assured the opposite is happening. Now Monte just wait the 47 hours and 59 minutes and then match!
Amick is the most trusted name in the Kingdom for a reason. If a writer of his caliber was looking for clickbait, he sure as hell wouldn’t waste his time with an unimportant, shit organization like the Sacramento Kings. No one cares about us, but us.
You may not enjoy the message, but questioning the messenger isn’t going to change reality.
I mean that’s the thing, what’s the message man?
that it would be a bummer if Vivek and his son are meddling? That maybe this conundrum with Bogi and Buddy is associated with to many cooks in the kitchen?
that’s what he’s insinuating. Am I wrong?
hes insinuating that. He’s not backing up by even saying that he heard people rumbling about they’re meddling.
it’s true, I don’t want what he is speculating to be true but it’s pure speculation so I don’t see how one can rationally get mad about someone’s speculation about someone else.
maybe it wasn’t intended for clickbait. That’s my bad if that offends you. Sorry. It’s one of the big name things happening in free agency right now and people do care about outside of Sacramento, that’s why he’s writing about it. The Bogi signing wherever has turned in to theatre. He’s writing about because people are interested. He just speculated and many seem to be taking it as fact. That’s all I’m saying.
I think he’s insinuating that McNair has a vision for what he wants to do, and Vivek and his crew are already interfering with that plan.
Now, I for sure don’t know exactly how that relates to the Bogi situation. Does Vivek want to keep Bogi and McNair wants to let him walk? Or did McNair make one suggestion and Aneel said something else should happen? I wish we had more information about the specificity or severity of the meddling. I’m with you there.
In the end, I’m gonna look at the reputation of two individuals. Amick has proven himself as an upright and reliable reporter, while Vivek has proven himself to be a meddling owner who can’t get out of his own way and will make snap decisions without any hesitation, and I’m going to assume that both of those individuals haven’t suddenly switched their entire personalities around.
Could Amick be flat out misinformed? It’s possible (but unlikely), but I don’t think he’s the kind of journalist to report things just because they’re inflammatory. You’ve gotta imagine there’s a treasure trove of stories he’s heard that have never, ever seen the light of day because they can’t be fully corroborated.
I agree with everything you say here basically except that I didn’t read what he wrote as reporting as in relaying factual information or piecing together reputable rumors and whispers in the hall. I read it as him simply speculating a situation and the challenges that are there. Just laying out for people what the Kings front office is facing and some of the issues in the past that could still be lingering.
Yeah, I have to agree with AT.
I don’t see much new information here. Vivek is a meddling owner, the Kings are no better off or worse off than they were before Amick’s report/tweet. If Amick heard something new, he didn’t do a great job saying what it was.
Name me an instance where Vivek mandated a particular player adding or subtracting. Is there any evidence of that?
Even going back to “Stauskas , Stauskas, Stauskas” I think he was just the most excited guy in the room when the GM at the time had targeted said player.
I do not think anyone ever reported that Vivek overrode the decision of the GM to take Stauskas.
I am not defending Vivek, I just want to know the nature of the meddling, he’s truly acting as the GM or is he perhaps just an overbearing intrusive personality ?
I mean, we’re debating at this point whether Vivek has meddled at all…ever?
Come on now.
He literally told New Orleans Pelicans Buddy from the sidelines that, “We are going to get you” months before they traded for him.
+1
…insert “STAUSKUS!” video
So if McNair’s vision is to let Bogi walk for nothing (because he is too old), but Vivek is saying we should match and try to get something for him later, why is that a bad thing? The owner is saying he will spend a shitload of money to not lose the asset for nothing.
That would definitely be a bad thing. Even if it turns out to be the right decision, it’s terrible process (and terrible precedent).
I still believe that the final decision is McNair’s, not matter what “meddling” is going on.
I am just saying if part of the process is your owner telling the GM not to worry about the money, that seems like a good thing. Much better than the owner saying he can’t afford it.
I didn’t think we were talking about simply approving money to be spent.
I guess I just dont understand on this Bogi issue, given how Amick framed it, what the “meddling” could be other than Vivek wanting to spend money.
Either way though, I think the decision is going to end up being McNair’s, as it should be.
I don’t see that in Sam’s tweets, but it’s certainly possible.
However, it’s pretty hard to imagine the financials haven’t been discussed between these guys already – I mean, there have always been a limited number of scenarios on the Bogdan front.
Adding – in my opinion, the owner (who isn’t qualified to understand team building) gives the person running his operations (and making those decisions) an idea of his budgeted salaries for the next few years.
If McNair and Ranadive agreed to those parameters, then McNair should get Ranadive’s input/approval if he’s breaching them for an unexpected occurrence or opportunity.
In my world, that’s not meddling, and I doubt it would be in McNair’s view (or Amick’s, for that matter).
We are blaming the Bucks for a Woj victory lap. Maybe it was Vivek?
Bogi isn’t an asset for this team unless Buddy is traded. And if I remember correctly, if the Kings match, the team can’t trade him to any team other than the Hawks until mid-season and have to wait a year to trade him to the Hawks if they are still interested. Matching with the belief that the player can be traded down the road doesn’t always work out
While I understand your point, an asset is an asset. It may gain or lose value dependent on other factors, but Bogi for $18M/yr is reasonable and tradeable.
In this current market where Joe Harris got 4/$75M ($18.75M/yr) and Bertans for 5/$80M ($16M/yr), I’d feel comfortable slotting Bogi between those players as I think Joe Harris is a little better than Bogi and Bogi is a much better player than Bertans but Bertans being elite at the most coveted of NBA skills, it makes sense why he was paid handsomely for it.
I don’t know what’s with all the hand-wringing about keeping a player of Bogi’s caliber for nothing more than his salary. Other than Bogi’s age, he is the exact type of player McNair is looking to acquire (versatile, high BBIQ, good shooter).
You need to reread that – he’s not speculating on Vivek’s involvement.
Yes but what form did the alleged meddling take? That is what I want to know.
If Vivek is rejecting trades and player signings and pushing for others, that is egregious meddling. But if he is inquiring as to the reasoning and basis for particular decisions, pending or completed, that is just being a overbearing nuisance.
Is Vivek just not getting out of the way and allowing full autonomy? This is a distinction that Amick does not delineate, as far as I can see. If you have a GM complaining about owner oversight, that is one thing, being overbearing and intrusively inquisitive.
But that is different than dictating or mandating particular moves. Meddling is draft this player, trade for this player, or this trade idea you submit to me I am rejecting because I don’t like it. Is there evidence of that or is there not?
If Sam Amick is so “respected and trusted” where is he to get down to the granularity of the issue, the heart of the story?
Lets not play games, here, stir up drama, and that is what he is doing without the complete context.
Happy to see I’m not the only one seeing this as a hit job. This seems like pure click bate stuff to me guys. Just sayin.
there’s no facts or even evidence to anything he said there except that his son helped hire Monte. And…? He was there for the process, he’s learning the business and will eventually be more involved maybe even take over 20 years from now.
insinuating that Vivek and his son are getting in the way of what Monte wants to do is bull shit in my book. Show me some evidence of that, don’t just say it. Look how everyone is reacting to your speculation because you’re supposedly reputable. Kinda disappointing by him I gotta say.
show me something real and I’ll very quickly be piling on to the frustration and anger that seems miss guided at this point. No offense to anyone. I get the gut reaction feel anger towards Vivek when someone like this puts a speculative report out like this. Bummer.
I can understand this attitude. At the same time, it’s really a matter of credibility, and whether it’s deserved or not, the overwhelming majority of people in this fanbase and probably in the league at large give Amick more credibility than Vivek.
I give Amick WAAAAAAY more credibility then Vivek. 100%. If I didn’t hate when people say 110% I would say 110%.
Vivek has basically zero credibility when it comes to basketball related stuff.
that said, what my point comes down to is when I read all that from Amick I was ready to be very angry, my blood was boiling. Then I read it and was like well there not much there, he’s just kinda thinking out loud, laying out the challenges the new GM might be facing and need to be cautious of. No biggie.
LOL, this. A guy with Amick’s reputation doing clickbait…on the Kings? GTFO. Arco might need to step away for a bit.
Yea agree just seems like an unnecessary jab with zero credibility behind it.
Two questions I think you should contemplate using when looking at this situation:
In his dozens of years of insider information regarding the Kings, how many times has Sam Amick been completely, dead wrong, Amico-style?
What kind of evidence would you like to see? A reporter would never give up his sources, whether they’re minor ones like we sometimes have here at TKH or major ones like Sam does. If he talked to 3 or 5 or 8 people involved in the situation, and they all shared the same reliable info, how should he prove those conversations took place?
When looking at these kinds of reports, the only real way we have to determine the veracity is to look at the relatability and consistency of the one sharing the info. If this was Skip Bayless saying this stuff, it would be an entirely different conversation.
But he didn’t. Not in my reading of his comments. Seemed like he was just speculating. Did t really reference talking to multiple sources close to the organization or anything like that.
i seem to be getting turned in to a Vivek apologist here and that is Sooooooooooo far from the case when it comes to me. Just so you know.
I just re-read the statement from Sam and honestly all he is giving is his opinion. If you want to believe Sam’s opinion based on his past credibility that’s fine. But I guess I don’t agree with a reporter dropping an opinion that he knows will create overreactions. But then again I wouldn’t be reading his statements and debating on this great platform if he wouldn’t have dropped his opinion. So there you go. It’s working for him.
Amick lives in Sacramento (I don’t know his actual address so metro area). He is a member of this community. He went from local beat writer to national NBA reporter based on being good at what he does. If you think he would jeopardize his job by pretending his speculation is sourced reporting then you haven’t been paying attention to who he is, and what he’s about.
I dont think anyone is insinuating that Amick is making shit up.
I can only speak for myself and interpret what Not always Logic said. What I gather, Amick is only stating his opinion or just explaining a situation to his followers. He’s explaining what he thinks the challenges are and some other things that have caused issues in the past. Amick even introduces the tweet comments he posted with “Heres some thoughts”, thats all it is, just some thoughts not anything that is necessarily facts he’s relaying to us. I dont think any one is questioning Amicks integrity here. I certainly am not doing that.
he wouldn’t put that out there if his thoughts were not fact-based. I just think you probably haven’t read his articles or heard his interviews, so you don’t understand how careful he is to always separate his opinion from intel.
His statement of Vivek’s involvement isn’t written as speculation.
I may be misinterpreting others posts, but it seems to me the “opposition” take is that this is not new.
Is it really news that Vivek is still Vivek and Kings GMs will have to deal with a meddling owner?
I don’t think Amick is lying, I just don’t think this is anything other than what Vivek has always done, its just a new post about the owner doing the same thing he’s always done, this time to a new GM. I too wish he wouldn’t do it, but its who he is; I would argue that anyone who thought he would change was being a little naive.
I was fairly relieved that this was the only thing Amick reported, my initial concern when seeing the headline was that Vivek said something publicly that harmed negotiations of some sort.
User name checks out.
Username checks out.
Us ername checks out.
And this is why, as I sit in my apartment as the rain falls in Portland, I instead choose to give my emotional energy to the positive moves the Blazers made this weekend.
Sacramento, I love you, I miss you, but damn, we need better basketball owners.
Kudos to the front office exec who felt obligated to alert Sam.
Sounds like this insider wants what we want.
This team is exhausting. That’s all I’ve really got for analysis.
…proceeds to analyze the messages in the comments and debate with people as to the reliability of the report.
Just to re address what you and I are debating here.
I don’t think the messenger is unreliable. I just think the message is a sharing of information on situation that has some challenges that not all fans are likely aware of. In addition to the money challenges and tradability challenges are the possibility of to many cooks in the kitchen which in the past was a problem. He doesn’t know if that’s happening now, he’s just saying that maybe it could be considering how hectic and discombobulated the whirlwind of Bogis free agency has been.
I will stop now.
love discussing all this tuff with you guys and getting al worked up over a game we love. 🙂
Well I hate you and you’re wrong and you’re stupid and you’re banned for life.
Just kidding – Greg lost the ban hammer in the move.
So Greg DOES secretly wish he was still part of the website-that-shall-not-be-named! 😉
When Vivek bought the team to keep it here, did anyone look around to see if a monkey paw curled its finger?
The fact that Hield is untradeable is a major problem too.
I mean… here we are again. I don’t know. Every time one of these articles comes out it gets a little bit easier not to care. The apathy will be real at some point and I think we’re getting there.
Spoiler alert: this will be a negative post, and from someone who has never been to Sacramento, no less.
Is anyone surprised?
People do not change easily. People beyond a certain age do change even less easily. Dismissive little people who are full of themselves change the least of them all.
Being a minority owner of a franchise – who solely by agreement has the majority owner tag – and using the franchiser as his own personal toy and giving his unqualified son an important role is a huge red flag.
Having such an owner make a new GM accept the existing coach keeping the current (bad) coach, for whatever reason, is a red flag.
Creating a new management structure with two people (Monte and Dumars) reporting individually to the owner on basketball matters, no matter how you spin it, is a red flag.
When some guys started the #HereWeBillboard action, our initial message was that Vivek had to go (and take Vlade/Matina with him). Vlade was seen as a symptom, not the disease. Ultimately we got convinced that it was an unattainable goal and we shifted our sights to Vlade, but as is becoming clear now, it was not really about Vlade.
Maybe Monte was too convinced of his own ability to navigate the political waters here, maybe he thought it wouldn’t be so bad. Maybe he jumped ship from Houston, reading the situation and ownership there, and thinking it could not be worse. i don’t know. He has a tall task ahead of him, but he stepped into it with eyes wide open.
Is Monte the one pursuing Hassan Whiteside, or is Vivek pushing for him? Does Monte have free hand to either match Bogi, or are financials constricting him and/or is Vivek unwilling to entertain the thought of trading his favorite, Buddy? We don’tr know, and we go back to second-guessing every FO move.
But I am sure we will convince ourselves that things will be better. This is a perfect year for a tanking shit-show, right?
Your negativity is fine with me. Certainly warranted.
I get your initial anger. When I started reading my mood was boiling and I was ready to explode. However I think it’s more speculation then fact. So maybe we shouldn’t be getting so pissed off? I mean I get it, there’s reason to be super pissed if in fact vivek and now his son are meddling. However I don’t see where Amick said he knows this is happening or that other people are whispering about this possibly happening.
not telling you to not be mad, you do you. I mean, if you read any of my comments earlier I’m still super pissed off about Monte not going out of his way to bring back Giles. I need someone to talk me down from that stupid decision.
i think you just made a very good point (room for Vivek meddling speculation) about Buddy here. Will Vivek allow Monte to trade Buddy? It’s what seems to be the smart play that most pundits around the league agree with but yet we hear about a disgruntled buddy staying and a happy more talented Bogi leaving.
Curious what you thought about the dealings with Harry Giles ArcoThunder. Could he have been a legitimate starter with the Kings this season?
I doubt that it is speculation.
I am curious if Jerry would be able or willing to lift a bit of the veil during the next podcast. I was pleasantly surprised that he didn’t shy from some critical comments about the former FO and some players in the first two podcasts. All stated in the polite, friendly Jerry-manner, but still.
I am not even angry; just despondent and moving towards apathetic. Which is worse than anger.
I have to admit, I think I was wrong about the Whiteside thing. I assumed it was a thing that a savvy GM would come up with. If you can get a guy at a discount due to his reputation, then you might be able to flip him at the deadline if he exceeds the artificially low expectations. Now it just seems like Aneel had Whiteside on his full MLE wishlist.
Yeah, I think it already broadly known that Vivek and now Aneel are heavily involved. The hope is that McNair has the gravitas and judgement to weight the opinions of those around him appropriately . He has to understand that as the GM, he is the one who will held accountable for the end result.
Insightful analysis
Hey RikSmits, I heard your RikSmits question to Jerry on the podcast. Welp, see ya later.
Hah, yeah, that was great.
It was bad enough that we we’re a team run by a guy who thought he was an expert because he coached his daughter’s rec-league team and won games. Now we have his trust fund baby sticking his nose in, too.
Kangz as usual.
Vivek’s presence is like the ex lover of yours who wouldn’t and couldn’t let you move on with your life. I am actually okay with Aneel being involved since he advocated for picking Doncic. I am actually okay with letting Bogi walk and chuck it up as the damages from the previous regime. But if Vivek is again in the center of the issues I think that would be a more serious problem.
Welcome to Sacramento, Tyrese!
Perfection.
F*ck this org, can’t get its act together with their previous meddling and now this. God f*cking dammit Vivek, let the man do his damn job!!!
The problem is that Vivek has a challenging financial situation here that Monty has to also work within.
Y’all know what the worst part is? Nowadays the fan base is so broken and apathetic that we probably couldn’t rise up and try to oust Vivek. Back during the relocation controversy, everyone banded together because we were passionate and proud about our team. Can anyone say that now? Cause I can’t.
Yup. I can only see it happening if people with a large following like Carmichael Dave start to lead the charge in that respect.
I understand the apathy. It makes perfect sense and I feel bad for Kings fans. We all deserve so much better than this for all of the years we paid money to watch games and supported the team. Sacramento fans deserve a competently-run, competitive team to root for.
That being said, I will help if anyone wants to make something like The Billboard.
Though like SMF-PDX pointed out maybe a billboard won’t be so effective at this time, with no normal daily commutes like before, and lots of people staying home.
So social media might be a possible option.
Or how about an Op-ed in the Sacramento Bee for the TKH folks who are also part of that circle?
What if we all wrote letters to The Bee? Overwhelm them with our letters so that they might feel compelled to write about how unhappy the fanbase is?
I know it’s not likely to oust Vivek, but maybe there is some way that it does help? Maybe it gives the other owners some kind of proof to show that the fans are not happy with his stewardship so that maybe they can put more pressure on him to stop meddling?
At the very least, it gives fans a voice to speak their minds and let Vivek know. Maybe he doesn’t know? Maybe he’s surrounded by sycophants who keep all the negative opinions out?
If nothing else, you can feel like you tried something, rather than just felt helpless.
Just thinking out loud right now…
Yeah, a billboard won’t work now.
Not going to games is already happening.
Picketing in crowds is a bad idea.
It has to be social media, IMO.
Something like: “Vivek was NOT voted as representative for life of Kings ownership. We demand a recount!” ?
I heard its not that hard to overturn others’ decisions:
I hereby declare that Vivek is no longer the representative owner for the Sacramento Kings.
It’s an odd situation. One would think that the broke owner (by NBA owner standards) would be happy to not shell out millions of dollars for players that won’t impact the win total in any meaningful way. It seems like Kings fans understand, better than the owners, that McNair is trying to build this team the right way.
At least we’re all debating the asset value of various free agents. Vivek seems to just be upset that McNair is dismantling the shitty team Vivek helped build.
How do we know he is trying to build it the right way? What is the right way? Is his idea of the right way going to make the Fans happy?
What does Anthony Davis have to do w/this situation?
We are getting Unibrow .. I’m listening!
Only if LeBron tells him he can
Oh for F’s sake! Does this dismissive little chap haven’t learned anything yet??!!
VIVEK, STOP MEDDLING AROUND YOU FOOL! Let Mcnair and his staff do their jobs and get the heck out of the way! Pretty sure he might also be influencing Mcnair on what to do with the Bogi situation. We all know how Vivek likes Buddy so much that he might want Mcnair to get rid of Bogi and keep Buddy no matter what.
This may be the most important part:
Haliburton pushed his way to Sac, partly because he thought he could fit with Fox
This isn’t about wanting players who want to be here, so don’t twist my words. it appears to me that Tyrese believes in McNair’s vision for the future of this team. Maybe I’m drinking the kool aid here, but I think McNair believes he now has a promising backcourt combination built for the modern NBA.
Every move made moving forward should be based on how it will impact the Fox/Haliburton tandem’s ability to flourish.
I don’t want to act like this is a mulligan on the Doncic thing, but it at least gives them a chance to reset the timeline around two playmakers with complimentary skillsets. If Bogi’s presence will inhibit their ability to thrive, then Bogi’s got to go. Or to put it another way, if they can’t trade Buddy, then Bogi’s gone based on a process of elimination.
Really this all hinges on this possibility that Amick is presenting, that Buddy has no trade value. If this is being relayed to him then you have to believe theres some real truth to that. Theres nothing wrong with Monte taking 48 hours to try and find a buddy Hield trade partner before letting Bogi walk for nothing. I definitely see the challenge and extremely difficult decision in keeping Bogi if Buddy is un tradable. That means you have two SG’s making basically 40 million between the two of them and you literally can’t trade either of them for at least one full season. Meanwhile you drafted a guy that you think is a big part of your future and possibly better than both. It’s a shit sammy for Monte.
If buddy is un tradable then so be it. It just sucks and thats that, not Monte’s fault. Wish the bucks and or Bogi didnt F up that DD sign and trade.
That said, we see crazy contracts being traded all the time. How buddy the contract + player has zero value doesnt compute. It’s not like he is grossly over paid for what he does and he is really good at what he does. Do you have to give up a little extra to move him like Justin James or Parker or Holmes? Maybe, and I’m ok with that if it means we lock up the better player in Bogi for less money. Plus, you gotta account for the decent return for buddy which you’d think that at worst would net you some expiring contracts and a late first round pick. I’m good with that and I’d bet Monte could find something better. I would think anyways.
I just think if it were that easy to trade Buddy for future cap space and young assets, then Buddy would already be gone. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen. It just means it’s not as easy as we’ve collectively felt it would be.
I also think we’re all probably underestimating the possibility that going into the season with both Bogi and Buddy could turn into a bit of a shitshow. We already know Buddy is more than willing to rock the boat. Now we also know Bogi has done everything in his power to force his way out of here. Is anybody sure how they’ll react if McNair and Walton prioritize Halliburton’s development over what’s in the best interests of two disgruntled shooting guards?
How has he done this? All he’s done is pushed the Kings to pay him more money.
Did you see the part of the report where it said Hield has no market?
Actually, this part is my sole reason for possibly doubting Amick’s report.
That whole “Haliburton pushed his way to Sac” story sounds moronic, just stuff that his agent may have floated to cover for his fall. No one in his right mind would give up millions of dollars for being a higher pick for the “privilege”to play for the lowly Kings. The difference between being picked sixth or 12th is about $ 5.5 million in the first 3 years alone.
If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.
For what it is worth (a lot to me), Jerry also scoffed as this story in the podcast.
Jerry also said Kobe successfully scared teams away from drafting him in order to push his way to the Lakers.
At this point there have been multiple insiders who have all said the same thing: Sacramento was one of Halliburton’s preferred destinations, and he did what he could to help ensure he landed in one of his preferred destinations. Everybody saying it’s too good to be true just sounds like people claiming every news story they disagree with is fake news.
And Jerry also suggested that no GM worth his salt would have been scared off by an unwilling Haliburton.
I gave arguments for why the story is unbelievable, I did not just say it is too good to be true. And you come back with is the Kobe example from 25 years ago?
I suppose there are also people claiming every news story they agree with is absolutely true.
I think that’s the piece that’s being ignored here:
GMs aren’t just going to say “uh, ok”. You’d think someone would have picked him just based on asset valuation and forced the Kings to trade up into a draft slot.
So while Tyrese may have been trying to maneuver himself, he was likely a bit of a falling knife anyway.
Haliburton received a promise from the Kings that they would pick him if he was available at #12, or even move up to get him if needed. Haliburton said as much. That gave Haliburton the ability to pick and choose who he worked out with, and send his medical to, in the top 10. We know this because he only worked out for 4 total teams even though there were additional teams that had interest in him.
We don’t know if his efforts ultimately mattered, but multiple experts seem to think that his plan was successful steering him to one of his preferred destinations.
Did he work out for the Kings?
No
I agree with you guys. If it is infact true, I don’t think Haliburton or his agent would’ve sacrificed that kind of money to play behind buddy/Bogi. They must’ve told him about getting younger around fox. Which makes sense since they already had a deal in place for Bogi. I think by keeping Bogi and not trading buddy we might actually upset his camp as well.
We may be reading a little too much into that report. I got the sense that there were a couple teams in the top 10 he wanted to stay away from (hypothetically, a Cleveland or similar). I’m less convinced he was trying to get to a particular team, much less that the Kings were a top choice.
Actually, Sam reporting it now makes me think it could be true, unless he’s just working off Givony’s reporting (and I can’t imagine Sam doing that).
It’s still illogical in many ways. But Sam doesn’t appear to be speculating.
This is bad
Isn’t it funny how all the perpetually bad teams in the league have bad/meddling owners. Seriously if this type of ownership doesn’t work for MICHAEL JORDAN it definitely won’t work for Vivek. Yes the Hornets are better, but they are forever a middling team that cant get over the hump which is just as disappointing in my opinion especially in the eastern conference. This situation is just sickening. This franchise has no business being an after thought subject to half-a**ed takes from the greater national media (see the whole Fox doesn’t want to be here rumors that were just debunked). All due to poor ownership. That is the most frustrating thing to me. As soon as we hear the doorknob jingling and see light breaking through the door it gets slammed shut by inept ownership. Why hire people if you are gonna do their job for them?
There are no reports of Vivek meddling. There’s only speculation within Amick’s tweet. I think we’ve all had questions whether Vivek would empower the GM without getting too involved before we even knew it would be McNair.
So someone, while in conversation with a journalist, asks if it’s possible Vivek tries to make McNair match Bogi so they don’t lose him for nothing? I’ll give McNair a chance to do something before I try to decipher if he made the decision on his own it not.
Why chase rain clouds if you don’t like getting wet?
That part of Sam’s tweet isn’t speculation IMO.
Some of that certainly is his opinion of the situation, but the comments on Vivek and his son, Tyrese moving himself to Sacramento and Buddy’s trade value are the factual underpinnings of his opinions.
There are questions already arising about whether Ranadive is truly empowering McNair.
That seems speculative to me.
It was literally the sentence right before that in the same tweet:
That ain’t speculative.
I agree. But that’s stating how Ranadive had run poorly the organization thus far and referencing Aneel’s increased involvement are both things we’ve known for months.
There is no new information on that front except the active questioning on IF McNair is free to make his own decisions. I would argue that those doubts have rightfully been present since day one and I’m not going to get worked up because someone else expressed that Vivek could find a way to ruin even a competent front office.
Aneel was involved in the GM interview process in September, months ago. Vivek has been Viveking since he got the team.
Where do you disagree?
I disagree about Sam’s intent here…I don’t agree he’s referring exclusively to the past. That’s not at all how it reads to me.
Okay. I think it’s unclear the writing is referring new instances but maybe that’s intentional. I won’t be surprised if there comes a time when Vivek makes a mess of things but I’m going to wait until there is something specific before I wish further.
I mean Vivek has gotten better throughout the years if only slightly.
After Petey he learned to stay out of the press, after Vlade he learned he should hire someone who has a clue as to how the job works. Who’s to say he can’t figure out how to let BB Ops do their jobs without his constant input? Maybe he won’t have to fire McNair before the lesson is learned! I’m feeling optimistic… For now
I don’t know if Vivek can stay out of his own way this time around but I’m going to wait until he does to get pissed. Mainly because I can’t do anything about it since he owns the team.
My only option is to give up on the Kings and I’m not ready to take that action yet. If he does get in McNair’s way by a meaningful measure, then I may find myself at a crossroads. But until someone can tell me what Vivek has done to hinder the current FO, I’ll call it speculation.
Here’s a tip.
We have a shitty owner. A-list free agents aren’t coming here. Drafting a superstar remains difficult. Enjoy the games as best you can, but don’t lose any sleep over it.
As a fan of this team I’m not expecting a parade.
Ugghh thats a painful one to read. To think there was a time when we were really close to a championship team. Unfortunately in todays NBA super team landscape the Kings would need to bat 1.000 on every move for the next 3-4 years and that still wouldnt guarantee a championship.
I have to say, I really reset my expectations after they passed on Luka and it does make being a fan much easier. I just don’t get as worked up about them screwing up as I used to.
Exactly.
I like following the team, and I like going to games. I’m able to do both of these things while completely understanding that WC seeds 1-4 are highly unlikely.
For me, watching Demarcus play was WAY more difficult. Within one quarter I would say Why are you here again you dumbass.
The Cousins experience was just exhausting. My wife and I were at his 56 point game double OT game against Charlotte and even while having a career game he managed to get himself thrown out in OT and the Kings lost. Even when he was at the peak of his basketball playing powers he couldn’t help but be a catalyst for losing.
My hope is we’ve stopped the parade of dunces running the basketball side!
With Vivek leading the way, the Kings could bring in Jerry West, Sam Presti, Pat Riley, etc. and Vivek would still be doubting them and trying to influence basketball moves. It is just who he is at this point. He will never change.
This is where I am at as well.
I think I have Viveks priorities figured out right now:
$$$ > Buddy > Good Basketball
If he likes Buddy that much, then I can’t think of another reason why Walton is still here.
If that list is reversed, he would be about the Benjamins, all day long and I wouldn’t care abut his Ego
What’s Viveks daughter’s name again? She has actually played some form of winning basketball, might as well give her a go. Seems more qualified than the rest of the fam.
What’s the point of this now?
vivek forcing a retaining of Bogdan?
Good question, what is the point of Sam’s speculation, other than to stir up the KH faithful? If he thinks Vivek is not giving Monty full control does that mean a Bogi match or not?
tsk
McNair did not have a large window to extract value from Bogi. He did a decent job, and someone (likely Bogi’s agent) took a shit in the soup. Buddy and Bogi are finished sharing playing time. Kings want a reset, the SGs want a reset. The window of opportunity to extract value from both Buddy and Bogi has closed. McNair tried with Bogi, somebody called the cops, that is not his fault. At this point, I think you let Bogi walk. Buddy gets his opportunity to shine and convince teams he is worth a young player(s) and a pick(s). There is zero chance this front office wants to run it back with both Buddy and Bogi. If they do, now we know the Ranadives stepped in.
(Heavy sigh)
My guess is it is either Buddy or Bogi (for reasons stated above) and Vivek prefers Buddy. This could get real ugly real quick and we already lost the best General Manager this franchise ever had real early in Vivek’s tenure.
If this is true it really sucks because it obviously is just going to get worse over time. I do not pretend to know if Mcnair is a good gm but he should have a legitimate chance to prove that he is.
If this is true it also likely means that whomever the GM is they are going to get micro-managed.
Vivek hires people that have never run a franchise for the express purpose of being the behind the scenes GM !
Time to move on and stop the narrative of ownership meddling. I am confident that McNair can deal with that if it is actually occurring. Also confident he can deal with any issues that may supposedly develop in the locker room should we match Bogi.
On the Whiteside rumors, certainly floated by his agent to generate interest for any team to sign him.
No one has precisely defined “meddling” to my satisfaction. There is a difference between being an overbearing inquisitive owner or owner’s son and outright vetoeing trades or mandating a particular player be traded for or acquired.
An owner who sends a lot of text messages to the GM, however annoying it may be, is different than an owner telling the GM he needs to draft Player A.
Any meaningful discussion about Vivek needs to define the precise nature of the meddling and no one has done that.
Since Vivek is one of the few owners that has consistently been pegged as a “meddler”, I think we can safely assume he’s not just inquiring.
If you need a smoking gun to believe something, you’re rarely going to get it in the NBA.
Can the site designers make it so the newest comments appear first? Or take a vote to see what the users would prefer. I like to see the newest comments first, reverse the current time stamps. Thanks.
Agreed! (regarding newest comments first)
I would think another more pressing desire would be to get all the comments on 1 page so you don’t have to click the link to multiple pages of comments.
I like the multiple pages. One huge page tends to break my phone.
I want a Z key dammit!
Not sure if this is true or not but this sounds a bit better. But the fact that the FO has to do this tells me that Vivek has to go.
If this is true, then I’m starting to like this Wilcox guy! Good job Wes! Keep the Ranadives in their lane!
https://tenor.com/view/lavar-ball-stay-in-yo-gif-9192312
Are we really to believe that the Front Office communicates with Ownership through the media? I’m just not buying into that. I’m sure Monty has the ability to tell Vivek to his face to stay out of his decision making. But of course if there are large implications such as luxury taxes, the ownership has to be involved in the decision making from a financial standpoint. Btw twitter is nothing more than a fantasy land of not only the general public but also journalists simply spewing out their hot takes.
Yes, people message all the time, I’d suspect that management knows ownership meddles, they know that fanbase is aware of such meddling. Its just a reminder that they know what’s up
Dude. That’s exactly what happens. If you don’t believe participants in the world of professional sports don’t use the media to deliver their message, I just don’t know what to say.
McNair has all the leverage. He can walk away from this job tomorrow and shrug, same old Vivek to the media, all while on his way to multiple job offers.
Vlade had no leverage. Nobody wants him and he has no experience. He delivered Vivek’s messages to Grant and Sam to the detriment of his own reputation and legacy.
If true, this is good news! Since Vivek can go unless he chooses, it’s important that this FO do whatever they can to mitigate Vivek’s previously unchecked interloping
It’s quiet today, almost too quiet…
One more little tidbit I want to add is Amick is the only local media person who’s known McNair for years. Houston actually let Sam sit in on their meetings with the coaching staff back for a pretty in depth article at USA Today back in the day. If you just type USA Today Amick Houston into google you can see he broke a ton a stories on them over the years. If he was hearing rumors about friction between Vivek/McNair, then he absolutely would have the ability to reach out to McNair directly for comments off the record.
This is good intel and makes sense. I could buy into this for sure.
This may not pertain to your comment directly Rordog but Ill reply to you because I dont want to post a separate reply.
Im wondering who here in the KH commenters are Kings employees. Seems to be some pretty adamant supporters of the Kings ownership/Vivek.
The former STR/current KH commenters have historically been wary of trusting anything ownership has said.
If only Aneel would have commented on why he gave me the thumbs down.
Just in case Slamson reads these posts:
“I LOVE YOU SLAMSON! YOU’RE THE BEST MASCOT! ROBIN LOPEZ CAN GO SCREW IN A LIGHTBULB!”
See Aneel this is how its done.
I down voted you Kosta because I believe Krazy George was the best mascot/cheeerleader
You know, as I sit here reading this endless debate, the thing I keep thinking about is the fact that free agency has been going on for a bit now… and we have lost 3 players so far and gained zero.
That’s not a very good way to build a winning team (in my non expert opinion.)
Tanking this season is fine; I have no issues with that. Give the young guys some playing time and collect lotto balls.
TONS of minutes for Jabari Parker this season!
not gonna lie, I’m mildly intrigued with Parker getting minutes as a small ball 5. If you look at his stats last season he was actually good enough on offense to offset his defensive limitations. He can pretty easily be an upgrade to Giles.
I think because of the mistakes of front offices past, this season has to be a rebuild/reset for the franchise. Vlade sort of went all in last year and it failed spectacularly so now we need to move out most of these veterans out so I’m not worried about them bringing needless veterans. If they want to take short term low cost flier’s on a couple young guys that’s fine but other than that I’d rather they hold whatever cap space they’ve got and try to take on bad contracts for picks.
I think its pretty clear that this upcoming season is not about getting into the playoffs. It’s about undoing most of Vlade’s work and it starts with purging most of this roster which I am totally fine with. Signing mediocre free agents does not move the needle for the Kings since they won’t make the playoffs with or without them. Might as well have a clean cap moving forward. Play our rookies (Tyrese, Ramsey and Woodard) and 2nd year players (James, Guy, Jeffries) and see what they got.
This team is gonna suck but at the very least it assures us a top 5 pick in a loaded draft + a clean cap for Monte to work with. Maintaining flexibility is the key.
I’m not going to freak out over every little media report or who we lose. Going to give Monte 2 or 3 years to do his thing and not worry about Vivek. If it still looks bad and these reports keep coming out then I will begin to freak out again. The next few years might suck but if it looks like we are finally headed in right direction I’m not going to worry about all this drama, fixing a franchise is not easy.
I still think it is possible to flip buddy and Barnes for Tobias Harris, Thybulle, and a first round pick. We would take on one of the worst contracts in the NBA, but we get a young player and a pick and we get to keep bogi. I think that is fair. I think Philly would do that deal too.
Barnes would replicate Tobias’s role for the Sixers for less money, and Buddy is pretty much a perfect fit next to Simmons and Embiid. He would probably be their second leading scorer.
With the Knicks taking Toppin, and likely prioritizing Robinson, I wonder if they’d be willing to move Randle. They don’t have any shooters so I wonder of a Buddy for Randle trade could be something.
Knicks get shooting, Kings get a big (which they need) and Randle fits the timeline. Monte could simply trade away Buddy, let Bogi walk and free up the backcourt for Fox and and Hali. I also think a Randle, Bagley, Holmes and Nemanja front court could work.
Does anybody have a workable trade for Buddy that isn’t him and Bjelica for Wiggins ( still owed 100 million)? I can’t find one.
I like the idea of trading buddy and Barnes For Harris Thybulle and a 1st.
I like the idea of trading buddy and Barnes
For Harris Thybulle and a 1st.FTFY
I am really disappointed with MM so far would give him a D, only because he didn’t pass on an oblivious choice in Haliburton…grade will change if we get something for Bogi or keep Bogi and get value for Buddy.. #NotAnUpgrade
What are you disappointed in? I mean he receives an incomplete IMO because he hasn’t really had a chance to do anything yet except run a draft and I thought he did that very well. There is certainly quite a bit of irony in bringing up making an obvious choice in the context of having a hashtag that says “NotAnUpgrade”.
He hasn’t done anything but draft and anyone could have chosen Haliburton..nothing with free agency..so he gets a D.
Not doing anything in free agency is positive IMO. And the “anyone would have drafted…” doesn’t hold any water because “Anyone would have drafted Luka” and we have the guy who decided not to. Just having someone who picks the obvious best player is an immediate massive upgrade. Don’t underestimate basic competence.
I will actually give him an “A” if he does not spend any meaningful money in free agency. The worst thing this organization could have done is overpay for free agents right now.
As it pertains to Bogi (and Buddy), that is an inherited situation. The old front office should have gone value hunting at the trade deadline last year, but my guess is that Vlade was all-in on Bogi while Vivek was all-in on Buddy, and as a result nothing happened. And with Walton’s system effectively devaluing Buddy, McNair inherited zero leverage for either player.
Giles? Gone thanks to Vlade – that bridge was burned the moment they told Giles that he was not worth the $3.9m QO. Bazemore? No way he was coming back on anything less than a multi-year overpay here – why play for the Kings when you can play for a much better team down just down I-80?
The old adage is that you can’t sell out of an empty wagon, and that is what we are witnessing right now. It’s nice to believe in miracles but the more sobering reality is that McNair inherited a team with few tangible assets. It is the reason that re-tooling > rebuilding for this team. OKC had tangible assets, and they turned them into an incredible number of future draft picks. The Kings lack tangible assets. And here we are.
Nailed it Rob.
Everybody has opinions..but unless he can find some talent we are in a worse place then before. At least keep a guy like Len for big body at back up center, and upgrade something.. he is trending towards an F at this point, he was hired to improve the team and I have not seen a move that improves the team. Haliburton is a good pick but at this point he does not add more than the loss of Bogi, assuming Bogi leaves.. don’t mind losing Giles, but we have one undersized center on the roster..
Len was a UFA. If you’re Len, would you rather play for Toronto or Sac. right now? The answer is obviously Toronto, unless Sac. is willing to overpay. And there is no reason for Sac. to overpay.
You’re giving McNair an F for cleaning up after Vlade, basically. You’re certainly entitled to do that, but I can’t find a shred there to agree with.
as far as Len goes, I believe Toronto will be playing in Tampa this year…so maybe I would enjoy the tax break of having over 50 of my games not be taxed At the state level.. As far as cleaning up Vlade’s mess, he was brought in to do that and I haven’t seen a move that improves or cleans up the mess. Everything he has done, or not done hasn’t moved the needle. It could change if I see some attempt to put a better product on the floor… as I mentioned below, I will change my grade If I see something positive..
Interested in knowing what you specifically would do / have done differently, given that you’re not going to get any decent FAs to sign here right now without overpaying them.
As with any of these things it is made with assumptions.. I am assuming that he didn’t try and keep Len and at this time I don’t see a better alternative that is available as a back up so yes I would have paid a little more or offered a 2 year because we will need a back up big body. I think Len does some good things. I am assuming that he failed the Milwaukee deal because he should have known what Bogi was expecting and should have a good feel on what is going to be offered. I know everyone on this site seems to think Milwaukee blew it and leaked it…
we are still short in the SF market, would have looked at Mo Harkless for 3.8-4.00 as a player to replace Baze.. heck if we were going to play fast take a flyer on josh Jackson.. what about Batum..
again I wil change my grade if he does something with Bogi or Buddy that gets us flexibility
I’m happier not offering a multi-year deal to a 3rd string center. /Shrugs
And free agency is not over yet – just most of the contract chasing stuff. Now that the music is stopping there will be players left without contracts. Players looking for a roster spot and willing to accept a small, one year deal. Perfect for where this team is in the here and now.
I have no interest in winning that 28th or 29th game next year if it comes at the expense of a multi-year contract or an overpay. And it appears that McNair is the same way. In that regard he is far different than Vlade. Viva la difference!
I disagree with 3rd string center..he was 30th in PER last year.. he is not a starter but doubt we will get a better second string center..maybe Whiteside for the low cost.
I want us to be worse than before so we get the highest pick possible next year. I guarantee you he will bring in a center on a small short term deal and that player will be fine. Centers are a dime a dozen. Last year we didn’t sign Holmes until a little ways into free agency and he has worked out just fine. Let the dust settle and see what happens.
Well maybe that is where we differ, I don’t want to be worse than last year.. I’d have to look but I can’t think of a better back up that was available than Len.. of course if he does something positive and can navigate the current issue with Bogi then the grade rises… I would prefer keeping Bogi and trading buddy so we still have flexibility. Then if tanking is the plan trade Bogi at deadline..
I think this team has no clear avenue to get better this year. We have players that have limited value on large contracts that won’t bring anything useful back in trades, there isn’t one impact free agent who wants to be here, and this draft didn’t have anybody who will be making a major impact in year one like Zion, Duncan, Lebron etc. I think McNair is doing the best he can while being dealt a terrible hand. Sometimes the best play is to fold, cut your losses and hope for better luck with the next hand.
I would be all for them keeping Bogi if they could move Buddy but Amick reported there is no trade market for Buddy. If that’s the case then you’ve got a massive log jam at the guard spots and you’re lowering the value of everyone involved. Do you believe Luke Walton will be able to effectively manage all those pieces? I do not.
I don’t hate Walton as much as others, but not extremely confident either so I would agree with you there.
I guess we could see some improvement if Bagley stays healthy and plays decent and Haliburton exceeds expectations as a rookie. I do think Jeffries plays the role Bazemore did. If Bagley plays to his expectations and fox improves, and Haliburton exceeds expectations then we might be lamenting not have signed a mid tier player, as that means we are Drafting 10-13 again. Whereas a small decent signing might have had us drafting 16-17 with a first round blow out. Of course that is a lot of ifs
Getting worse next year is likely the best path toward getting better, like really better, not like 37 wins next year, better.
Sometimes improvement takes more than a few weeks. Geesh.
What a shock. Rob gets something right.
Anyone agree that all this speculation that retaining Bogi will upset the development of Halliburton, will impact chemistry and is the wrong fit sounds eerily familiar with the rationale that led to the Kings passing on drafting Donic? McNair knows that good franchises retain valuable assets and figure out fit and additional moves later.
Longer the 48 hour clock runs the more likely he is retained, which is the smart thing to do.
Len to the Raptors
Without Bogi, Kings have about 8 legit NBA players on their roster right now, with Yogi likely leaving and then there is 7. And don’t try to say Kyle Guy nor our 2nd round draft picks can be considered legit NBA players. This could become very very very ugly.
TANK TIME BABY. I’m here for it. It’s about time this franchise embraced suckitude instead of incompetently trying to avoid it and tripping into it anyway. Let the Process commence!
I think that is the point. The roster was going nowhere as constructed, so let the young guys play and see if they are worthy of keeping and moving forward with the future in sight. Len, Baze, and Harry are nothing special and players like them can be found all around the league.
If you aren’t going to make the playoffs, you might as well have the #2 pick instead of the #12 pick.
Absolutely.
IMO, use the 1st half the season for showcasing trade assets like Buddy or Bogi and the 2nd half of the season for on-court development of young players like Hali/James/Woodard/DQJ.
I love this blog, especially the comments. You guys are on a roll yesterday and today!!
Vivek gives me Michael Scott vibes sometimes.
I’d say match, mainly because you have to consider the alternative. If we don’t sign him, next year we’ll be over the cap anyway with Fox’s extension kicking in. Without the cap space to sign a FA/absorb a contract, you’re not only losing Bogi for nothing but you effectively can’t replace him either.
The big Harris and Bertans contracts that just got inked are an example of this. Sure they’re really good shooters and you have to pay for that, but it’s also the fact that the Nets and Wizards just couldn’t replace them give their respective cap situations.
Buddy, Barnes, and Bogi aren’t a part of the future. The Kings will need to remove at least 2 of the three before the team can move forward–the team will effectively be stuck with over-the-cap options until then. If you don’t view Bogi’s contract as the worst of the three, then you should match. (Personally I think Barnes’ contract has the least value).
Unless McNair really impresses, I can’t see both Buddy and Barnes moved this year without taking cents on the dollar. since we have to wait anyways, just retain Bogi and wait until a year or two have gone by on his contract. We’re going to be waiting that long anyways.
Even if you only get cents on the dollar for a Buddy trade, keeping Bogi allows you to do that trade.
Keeping Bogi and trading Buddy for almost anything reasonable at some point (even if disappointing) is better than keeping Buddy and losing Bogi for nothing.
Badge Legend