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Report: Celtics want Harrison Barnes, Sixers interested in Buddy Hield, Nemanja Bjelica, Kings could be buyers

It's TRADE RUMOR SZN!

According to Sam Amick of the Athletic, a couple of NBA contenders have shown interest in a few of Sacramento's players, with neither the teams nor the players involved coming as any massive surprise. Harrison Barnes is "known to be on Boston's radar", while the Sixers may pursue one or both of starting shooting guard Buddy Hield and recently benched forward Nemnaja Bjelica.

The Celtics present an especially interesting prospective trade partner, as they have a unique ability to absorb a highly-paid player such as Harrison Barnes without sending much salary back. Boston's advantage comes from their sign-and-trade of Gordon Hayward to the Charlotte Hornets in the offseason. Because they received no salary back in the deal, they were granted a $28.5 million Traded Player Exception, a cap loophole that allows teams to take on contracts without sending back matching money. Traded Player Exceptions can be split into multiple parts, so the Celtics could take on three medium-range targets or one massive contract, but they cannot be combined with other TPEs, meaning Danny Ainge couldn't tack on more TPEs to the largest one in NBA history.

In addition to not being able to add to the TPE, Boston is facing another unique issue in that they're hard capped this season. Without going into too many arduous cap details, the Celtics sit about $19.5 million below the tax apron, so they can only take on that amount to stay under the hard cap, even though the exception is worth far more. In a theoretical trade with the Kings, the hard cap shouldn't be too much of an issue, as Harrison Barnes makes $22.2 million. The Celtics would only need to send around $2.7 million Sacramento's way to make the deal legal under the CBA. A few young prospects could meet or almost meet that requirement in Aaron Nesmith, Romeo Langford, and Robert Williams (who falls just short on his own), or Boston could even look to send a first round pick or two and expiring salary in a player like Jeff Teague or Daniel Theis.

From the Sixers point of view, trading for Buddy Hield and/or Nemanja Bjelica wouldn't present any great challenge either, at least from a salary-matching point of view, as Philadelphia possesses multiple expiring contracts in Danny Green ($15.3 million), Mike Scott ($5 million), Terrance Fergusen ($3.9 million), and Tony Bradley ($3.2 million). Of course, the Kings wouldn't be looking to dump Hield at this point, but Philly also possesses multiple, attractive young talents in Mattise Thybulle, Isaiah Joe, Furkan Korkmaz, and even the unlikely-to-be-traded Tyrese Maxey. The Sixers don't own their 2020 pick, which also restricts any activity for their 2021 first rounder, but they own all selections after 2020, another possible asset in any theoretical trade.

However, before the trade machine's Google Analytics start pumping out surges for the greater Sacramento area, Amick dropped some other interesting intel that may cool some excited, trade-happy jets. After describing the team's original intention to sell off veterans at the deadline, Amick dropped the mini-bomb that the Kings could actually reverse plans and look to become buyers at the deadline.  "If this trend continues, heading into the deadline, a source with knowledge of the Kings plans said the prospect of them being buyers would be very much in play. Yes, in other words, they're daring to dream a bit." Later on, Sacramento's number one national insider also shared that Barnes may not even be on the block for Monte McNair: "To this point, sources say teams have been given the impression that the Kings have no interest in moving Barnes."

Those two revelations seem to go hand-in-hand, and the thought process is understandable. If the Kings continue to play well and win a majority of their games, and that is a big if, they cannot simply toss away the season in the hopes of a high draft pick. De'Aaron Fox has been playing too well and Tyrese Haliburton has been far too polished to suddenly shift gears and tank as hard as possible. If the right high-level player who fits within Sacramento's view of the future (perhaps a disgruntled John Collins in Atlanta?) becomes available, Monte McNair could still cash out on a veteran or two, and maybe even part with some draft assets or young players, to consummate a deal that makes sense for both today and the future. A push for the playoffs that doesn't totally abandon the offseason priorities of getting younger and resetting around Fox's timeline feels like a sensible compromise.

This sort of information also could be coming from different places within the franchise. There are likely elements within the front office or ownership who desperately want to be known as a contender, and some of those elements may be more likely to speak with the media off of the record. Conversely, leaking that a player like Harrison Barnes is off of the table may also be nothing more than a ploy to boost the offers that Sacramento is currently receiving. Telling another team that you are not open for business, and in fact may look to acquire talent and push for wins, could drive up the price for a commodity like Barnes or Hield, especially if any sort of bidding war opens up. Trying to decipher the difference between legitimate intel and smokescreens is almost impossible at this point in the season, especially when considering Sacramento's roller coaster of a season.

Monte McNair has some very tough decisions ahead of him, as it's clear that despite the fan base's concerns in the preseason, both Buddy Hield and Harrison Barnes, the team's two largest salary concerns, have contenders ready to bid for their services. Barnes is playing the best ball of his career, and his value may never be higher, while Hield's tradeability is always in question with his lack of defense, massive contract, and historical clashes with different coaching staffs. Cashing out big on two potential wildcards has a nice ring for a GM who walked into the season preaching future flexibility and building around De'Aaron Fox. Unfortunately, sending out two important vets amdist the team's best play in literally more than a decade may do nothing more than piss off the guy that McNair and company are trying to build around. Fox wants to win, and Fox wants to win right now, and Fox is playing like a winner right now. Replacing Barnes or Buddy with non-starting level young players and future draft picks won't exactly boost Fox's development and in-game contributions, nor will it boost the team's winning percentage. That path may not be an option if the Kings want to keep their budding star happy.

The good news for Monte McNair is that no decision has to be made immediately. The trade deadline is 41 days away, a timeframe that will likely give the front office adequate time to figure out if this squad is for real, or if they simply enjoyed a recent hot streak and caught some injury luck from opposing teams. It's important to remember that just prior to winning seven of nine, this same group dropped nine of eleven games while playing some of the worst defense in NBA history. No one really knows who this team is, including the Kings. The best case scenario, as always, will probably come down to some sort of balance between outright tanking and irresonsibly pushing for the eighth seed. Sacramento doesn't have to send out guys like Barnes and Hield and Bjelica for non-contributing young players, nor do they have to reach for overpaid, ineffective veterans. As the next month-plus passes, competent, rookie-scale players are likely to become available, and those sorts of assets are exactly who the Kings should be targeting, whether they're looking to win now or build for the future.

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Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 9:06 am

comment image

Kosta
February 12, 2021 9:09 am

WE ARE NOT YOUR FARM, BILL SIMMONS.
comment image

Dub_TC
February 12, 2021 12:45 pm
Reply to  Kosta

I actually stopped listening to him and his network and I feel better for it.

mdeedublu
February 12, 2021 9:11 am

On 2/12/21, I’m just glad McNair is the one needing to make the difficult decisions and not Vlade.

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
February 12, 2021 1:39 pm
Reply to  mdeedublu

Amen.

AmateurNerd
February 12, 2021 2:04 pm
Reply to  mdeedublu

But but VlAdE dRaFtEd FoX!

CoreyBrewersD
February 13, 2021 9:18 am
Reply to  AmateurNerd

A related fact.
A stopped clock is right twice a day!

King4life
February 12, 2021 9:16 am

I’m not sure where I land on this. Trading Barnes and Buddy might be good for cap flexibility but then you’re going to have to replace those positions with young players or future prospects who likely won’t be as good as Buddy or Barnes and if they eventually are, it’ll take a few years. I don’t think this team is bad enough to be tanking and the lottery odds being flattened out don’t really support trying to tank anyways.

McNair has only spoken to the media a few times but when he has, he has mentioned developing a winning culture. As mentioned in the article above, I’m not sure how you develop that if you trade away two players who are contributing to your best season in a decade.

It’s a tough spot to be in for McNair and his front office but I feel more confident in him making a decision over Vlade so he has that going for him.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 9:20 am
Reply to  King4life

I feel time is on McNair’s side right now. A lot can happen to the Kings and the league a month from now. Another solid winning steak, a stumbling losing streak, or a significant injury to someone like Fox could make McNair’s decision process a lot easier.

Last edited 13 days ago by Adamsite
King4life
February 12, 2021 9:25 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Yep, another month of evaluation gives you a larger sample size to go off of and the urgency to get trades done usually doesn’t occur until the last week before the trade deadline anyways.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 9:31 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah, the only real danger in waiting is injury and Barnes coming back to Earth perhaps reducing his value a touch. But that should be offset by increasing desperation and a clearer view of the market.

Roaddog
February 12, 2021 11:51 am

another danger is the limited supply of buyers/sellers. Only so many teams are trying to make moves and if you sit on your hands too long, you won’t be one of them

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 12:07 pm
Reply to  Roaddog

This is true. If Ainge is impatient and uses that TPE one someone else, (*cough Otto Porter Jr. cough*) Barnes likely has no other suitors.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 12:20 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It’s interesting, this version of Barnes at this moment probably would have other suitors but how long does anybody believe Barnes will keep playing at this level? I certainly wouldn’t bet on it. I was just looking today and in 538’s catch-all WAR statistic that they created for the NBA, Barnes is tied for 14th in the whole league! I think it’s a pretty good bet that his current play is unsustainable even if his current level of play is helping the team win games.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 12:16 pm
Reply to  Roaddog

Though, as mentioned, they could also wait for opportunities over the offseason or any other time over the next couple seasons. Part of their good position is in not NEEDING to make a move immediately.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 12:21 pm

This is true. They might be better for it for waiting. I wonder if they’d still be hard capped if they were to use the TPE in the offseason?

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 12:44 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

No idea. That’s beyond my very shallow CBA knowledge.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 10:42 am
Reply to  Adamsite

100% agree. A playoff appearance could have a big impact on the narrative around our franchise and help inflate players values and help us attract FAs.

I don’t want to become aggressive buyers getting mediocre vets for material future assets. However, if we do stay close to the 8 seed, I understand not blowing everything up.

That said, if we do sink a bit, selling Barnes at his likely peak value is likely a smart move. Especially since the Celtics have an exemption and don’t need to send salary back, so we could get Nesmith, a draft pick(s), and open up ~$17M in immediate cap space. Would give us more flexibility to build around Fox, Hali, and friends.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:04 am
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

Of course, you may be able to do both!

https://tradenba.com/trades/pMgdCxot_

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:05 am

Here’s the screen shot:

Then you’re getting better this year (IF Porter can get/stay healthy) and adding young talent for the future.

Screen Shot 2021-02-12 at 11.04.33 AM.png
Last edited 13 days ago by BestHyperboleEver
ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 11:25 am

Mind blown…

PretendGhost
February 12, 2021 1:30 pm

That 1st would probably have to go to Chicago instead of Sacramento, which does make this an iffier trade. I could still be convinced.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 11:09 am

I can’t tell if you are drunk or just a visionary ahead of your time – but that’s certainly bold. I like it.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:15 am
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

comment image

The bigger point being that they would have just created cap space that they could use to replace Barnes’ production with a cheaper player or an expiring player. Enabling them to still go for the playoffs this year while freeing up space/acquiring assets for the future.

Last edited 13 days ago by BestHyperboleEver
Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 11:48 am

Why do the Bulls make that trade?

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 12:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Admittedly, it’s working under the assumption they don’t want to be forced into a “Pay him the max or watch him walk for basically nothing” situation. Which may not be the case.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 1:54 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Easy, Duke went 29-8 with Bagley and WCJ and made the 4th round of the playoffs. I imagine that must translate to the NBA 🙂

No, but you are right. I don’t think they would mind shedding Porter’s contract even for half a season. But not sure they prefer Bagley to Lauri.

Though, you could also do the deal without them. This really is two completely separate trades done in one transaction. But no one from Chicago goes to Boston.

Last edited 13 days ago by SPTSJUNKIE
BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 2:38 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

It is. It was really just meant to show how you could theoretically use the space created by trading Barnes for the TPE to acquire young/future assets without necessarily punting this season.

jwalker1395
February 13, 2021 3:24 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah didn’t wanna rain on the parade but the Bulls are getting thrashed in that trade

aplumley
February 12, 2021 9:22 am

Not one mention of Cash Considerations. Something ain’t right.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 10:42 am
Reply to  aplumley

He retired and is now part owner of the franchise.

Kosta
February 12, 2021 10:49 am
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

Renamed “Bitcoin Considerations”.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 10:57 am
Reply to  Kosta

We first got Cash Considerations in the 2nd round in the mid-2000s – if he really became Bitcoin Considerations, he might be the greatest pick in Kings’ history.

Want2win
February 12, 2021 1:51 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Janet Yellen won’t allow it…

AmateurNerd
February 12, 2021 12:20 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

NBA $3.00 !

JZiadeh
February 12, 2021 9:27 am

Buddy and Barnes for Jaylen Brown please!

Last edited 13 days ago by JZiadeh
BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 9:29 am
Reply to  JZiadeh

They aren’t giving up Jaylen Brown. Especially not in a deal where they’re paying more for two players that are older and worse than him.

JZiadeh
February 12, 2021 9:35 am

yeah, it was more wishful thinking on my part

Last edited 13 days ago by JZiadeh
BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 9:28 am

The last paragraph is really the gist. The Kings are in a good market position right now. They have players that are attractive that the CAN sell, but they don’t HAVE TO sell. What they can’t do is:

  1. Change course (whatever that course is) based on a 9 game sample. If they were planning on trying to move Barnes and/or Hield or anyone else, they absolutely shouldn’t change their minds just because the team managed to play 24 games of .500 basketball. I know we’re constantly grading on the Kangz scale, but the reality is this team is still going to need a relatively major talent infusion in order to become consistent competitors. So the question remains how they’re planning on acquiring that high-end talent.
  2. Make decisions they wouldn’t otherwise make just to appease Fox. IMO they should absolutely bring Fox in on their plan, whatever that plan is.
  3. Let average be the enemy of great and make short-sighted decisions based on breaking the playoff streak. IMO, I don’t think Monte will. I feel like his FA signings and what appears like patience to me so far suggest he won’t. But IMO the Kings are in very real danger of capping out as a 6-8 seed. It would be a TON of fun to watch a playoff series, but I’m a patient man and I’m looking for a parade.
Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 9:33 am

Excellent points, HBE.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 10:48 am

Let average be the enemy of great and make short-sighted decisions based on breaking the playoff streak. IMO, I don’t think Monte will. I feel like his FA signings and what appears like patience to me so far suggest he won’t. But IMO the Kings are in very real danger of capping out as a 6-8 seed. It would be a TON of fun to watch a playoff series, but I’m a patient man and I’m looking for a parade.

I agree with everything you are saying here, but I think it’s worth noting there is a middle path (maybe implicit in what you are saying) where we build upwards without selling out.

The Rockets that McNair came from never tanked or even bottomed out. They were always trying to build up and were flipping assets for better / younger assets in an effort to improve their overall talent. Teams like the Warriors, Celtics, Nuggets, and Raptors followed a similar path – though the Celtics did have top picks from the Nets.

So I can see a path where McNair makes a trade to upgrade talent and pushes for the playoffs, but without giving away material future assets for a mediocre vet. The path is no necessarily trading to deplete talent and secure a better draft pick. I said back in October and maintain, I think this is also one of the reasons Vivek chose McNair over Gupta – proven success based on building up and not tanking.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:10 am
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

I agree.

Though as I mentioned elsewhere, the Rockets were always doing that with top 10 level talent already in pocket.

But yes, I agree that the only options aren’t completely tanking or completely selling the future for this year.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:21 am

A great example is what OKC has been doing the past couple years. Acquiring good but overpaid players + future assets allowing them to play decent-to-good playoff basketball now AND set themselves up for the future.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 11:47 am

At the risk of (or explicitly) nitpicking – I don’t think they always had top 10 talent or even close to that. When Morey and McNair started they had Yao and McGrady, but a bit like Webber with us, injuries stopped them from potentially being able to trade them for value while they were still productive, high level players.

If you take a look at the gap between Yao / McGrady and Harden, they had a stretch where they played the asset upgrade game, but with some middling rosters:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2011.html

Here’s 2011 and you can look at the couple of years before and after, but their best player was Kevin Martin. And they had a young, still developing Lowry, but no one would have even considered him a top 30 player at that time.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 12:04 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

We also need to keep things in perspective. It may not look like so now but their trade for Harden was a gamble. The Rockets gave up their leading scorer in Kevin Martin, their rookie prospect in Lamb, a first round pick (that would become Steven Adams) and a 2nd rounder for Harden and change. At the time Harden was a 6th man who was averaging 16,4 and 3 who was about to be a RFA. I don’t think anyone had any clue of what he was to become.

For perspective, that would be like the Kings trading away Buddy, Hali, and a future 1st rounder for another team’s 3rd best player coming off their rookie deal…someone like John Collins.

MichaelMack
February 12, 2021 1:31 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Excellent perspective Adam.

I think this convo is probably closer to what the FO is thinking, how to capitalize on what is working right and keep the momentum. I think SPTSJUNKIE said above that a playoff berth might help our overall reputation as a FA destination. If we can maintain a competitive team, regardless if we end up making the playoffs, seeing what McNair can do with expiring veterans (GRIII, CoJo, Hassan, Bjelica), and head into the offseason with some momentum in the fan base, at least two building blocks in Fox and Tyrese, hopefully a more realized Bagley, some productive veterans in Buddy and Barnes, and still have some young prospects in Woodard, Ramsey, Jeffries, Guy, and Metu, as well as all of our own draft capital, it seems like we would be in position to really improve the team. Enough for some hope for an obvious path to being a better team.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 1:50 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

What is interesting is that you are 100% right – people definitely viewed it as a gamble and at the time there certainly wasn’t a consensus that Morey had made a great move, especially given the contract they were going to have to commit to Harden (which is why OKC traded him).

But looking back now, it’s almost absurd that this is how it was viewed. Harden did a ton of the ball handling for a finals team and both his individual advanced states and summary stats were absurd.

Harden’s last year in OKC at age 22, he had:

True Shooting: 66%
Usage: 22% (biggest question how this would scale)
Ast%: 19%
FT rate: 59%
3% & #: 39% on 4.7 per game
STL rate: 1.9%

VORP: 3.1 (#13 in NBA)
Win Shares: 9.3 (#6 in NBA)
BPM: 4.3 (#8 in NBA)
RPM: -1.35 (#374 in NBA)

Ok, his RPM might give reason for debate and his usage while now low, is obviously not at a superstar level, so fair to question how his efficiency might drop if that even increased to 26-28% – but those are phenomenal numbers for a 22 year old.

Professional pundits, NBA GMs, and us knew a lot less back then and these numbers were not widely available, but in hindsight, the trade should have been seen as a big win even at the time. In fact, Morey is lucky GMs were less savvy as in today’s NBA that type of player would probably go for a lot more.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 10:48 am

I started typing up a post and then read your post BHE and realized I couldn’t possibly state it any better than this. I think this is exactly the appropriate take. I must say, I feel a little uneasy because the Kings are actually in a decent position and it seems like maybe we finally have a front office that knows what to do. Fingers crossed.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:11 am

They’re in a good position for the team, but a very difficult one for the GM and PR.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 11:28 am

Difficult for the GM but if you’ve got a decent GM they could do a lot of good stuff from this position. If Vlade were still the GM… Well we sort of already saw how that played out right? There’s a reason we lost Bogi for nothing. We have very little to go on but I’ve got a tiny bit of faith that McNair has a plan (that isn’t stupid) and he’ll execute it.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 9:31 am

The only thing that gives me pause is that McNair comes from a culture in Houston under Morey that very willingly traded away future assets to win now. I really hope he doesn’t follow that philosophy here. I’d hate to trade a future pick for temporary talent to get the Kings sniffing the playoffs.

On the flip side of that, If Morey still has that philosophy in Philly, Monte should be calling him up to get Philly’s young talent and future assets to satisfy their win now mentality. Buddy makes a lot of sense for them and may push them over the edge in the East, so McNair had better demand a ransom.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 9:56 am
Reply to  Adamsite

To be fair (and I haven’t fact-checked myself on this) but they only did that after having stars in place. Like Philly does.

SPTSJUNKIE
February 12, 2021 10:55 am
Reply to  Adamsite

The only thing that gives me pause is that McNair comes from a culture in Houston under Morey that very willingly traded away future assets to win now.

I don’t think this is true if we look more holistically. If you are referring to trading assets for CP3 in particular – yes, they were close to a ring and probably win one if CP3 doesn’t injure his hamstring against the Warriors.

However, for years they refused to tank, but also made a habit of flipping assets for increased value. Houston’s transition from rebuilding after Yao’s and McGrady’s injuries derailed the Rockets and left them without virtually any trade value was all about asset efficiency and maximization. They never made a trade sacrificing material future assets to chase the 8 seed.

Worth looking at their moves from 2010 onward: https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/moreyda99x.html

Not all perfect, but they stayed middling for a bit and accumulated assets until they were able to acquire Harden.

Marty
February 12, 2021 9:34 am

You tried to bury it but we found it. 😎

…will probably come down to some sort of balance between outright tanking and irresonsibly pushing for the eighth seed.

nonstripedzebra
February 12, 2021 9:56 am

Personally I am hoping the talks of holding tight or being a buyer are simply smokescreens. A deal with Boston for very specific reasons in the exception actually seems potentially feasible. Phili, although less so does indeed have expirings that could surprisingly be worked into something if they are going all in. Those are two hypothetical partners with highly specific situations not seen very often. That fact, along with the unexpected increase in value and play on our players ends creates a massive opportunity. I am enjoying watching this team each game, and the individual improvements of Barnes and Hield are commendable and a big part of that, but this is a huge chance to actually set the ground for sustainable success.

Holding tight although i’m against it I would in part understand, as the play in doesn’t seem a pipe dream at all. And if a playoff birth came it likely means Hield and Barnes form is still above expectation and thus both become possibly moveable on a later date. I think thats a risky hypothetical but I get it. Buying on the other hand, with an expected increase in our cap i’m pretty adamantly opposed. Even with a player tied to Fox’s age. Obviously it would depend on a specific player/deal but I am just against raising or sustaining our level of cap commitment when this team is ascending. Money is hard to move, rosters can lock aspirations or necessary trades.

I thought the Kings were in that position with Barnes and Hield. Two teams with very specific dynamics not mirrored elsewhere or often are possibly affording us a major bone on that front. As well as their individual performances. To McNair I say construct around a core that is legitimate and has at least a 3 or 4 year runway with real contending potential.

Last edited 13 days ago by nonstripedzebra
1951
February 12, 2021 10:05 am

But the Kings are mediocre so you can’t trade any core rotational players to break up a .500 team!

It’s written in stone in the Kings fan manual!

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 10:08 am
Reply to  1951

This is a piece of constant entertainment to me.

Want-to-be-gm
February 12, 2021 10:31 am

To start Philadephia has nothing to offer us that they are will to give up so that’s a non starter. The Barnes to Boston is another story. I don’t think Barnes’ value will ever be higher than it is right now so I would try to do the deal now. I’m not sure how I feel about Langford or Williams but a couple of first round picks is really attractive. Look at it this way, we basically got Barnes for nothing and up until recently (a really small sample set) this teams performance hasn’t really improved with him. Also consider that realistically our absolute best case scenario this season would be a 7th seed and a first round exit. We can’t be striving to get from poor to mediocrity, we should instead be trying to build into a championship contender and a Barnes trade possibly gives us a better opportunity to do that.

I would take two first round picks and Thies for Barnes. I’d try to get either Langford, Williams or Nesmith along with the 2 first round picks but realistically Thies would have to come with the deal.. This would really put us in great position for the future with a bunch of cap space and a nice haul of draft picks and provide us with a lot of flexibility. With that cap space we can take on a bad contract in exchange for a good prospect or draft pick. We could use the draft picks as trade chips or with a collection of drafts picks you could package them for a nice draft position where you can really get an impact player. This is a great opportunity for the Kings to really position themselves to possibly build something special. With Buddy, Bagley, and the drafts picks we could really be a player in the trade market and possible get a special player to pair with Fox and Haliburton. How about packaging all those picks for KAT.

The worst thing we can do is get attached to a player who happens to be playing far above his typical performance level which is more likely to be an anomaly than a new normal. I like selling high and buying low and so should the Kings. The possibilities are really exciting.

9sac8
February 12, 2021 10:31 am

I had to take a sabbatical in my backyard after the Philly lost.

Ok, soooooooo, Barnes is off the table now. He provides stability and leadership. Although, I wouldnt mind if the Cs gave us Nesmith, Theis, or Robert Woods. I told Ainge the other day, if you want Barnes, send us Jaylen and we’ll send like a 2025 first rounder back.

The Philly trade is ridiculous. Give up Maxey if you want Buddy so bad.

It just seems like all proposed trades are never really in our favor. That shit has to stop. True to the article, we’re playing damn good ball right now even with somewhat average players. We need some upgrades.

MONTE, you better stand ten toes the fuck down and upgrade. See our weakness and find players that fit our mold, to hide those weakness or eliminate them. I feel like we’re becoming a more respectable organization. I don’t even think a rebuild is necessary. We’re like a 2nd alpha and a couple of true players that know their roles, away from like the 6th seed.

We can make the playoffs this year. AND we can beat anybody any night. I’ll STAMP that.

Don’t do it. Don’t say it. I know that sentence can be flipped in the opponent’s favor. I will STAMP the hell out of you.

Kosta
February 12, 2021 10:55 am
Reply to  9sac8

Not exactly stamps, but hey! Check out that sticker in the bottom right corner!
comment image

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:32 am
Reply to  9sac8

Man, a good 9 game stretch is a helluva drug.

PretendGhost
February 12, 2021 1:37 pm

I would say a superstar and bona-fied death lineup is a helluva drug, more than just a 9 game stretch. We wouldn’t be this excited if we weren’t seeing someone who could shoulder a load and a grouping that maximizes his ability to.

there’s a difference between getting hot and playing at a sustainably high level. As of now, stats and the eye test say it’s leaning towards the latter

EDIT: I hadn’t read the comment you were replying to, and now I agree with you lol

Last edited 13 days ago by PretendGhost
rc50cal
February 12, 2021 8:35 pm
Reply to  PretendGhost

You’re saying we have a “Death Lineup?” I’ll have what PretendGhost is having!

RobHessing
February 12, 2021 10:44 am

I don’t say this due to the team’s current run – that does not register with me at all as it pertains to trading Hield and Barnes. But I would not salary dump either one of them – there would have to be tangible assets in return.

Barnes: After this season, he makes $20m and $18m. Yes, he’s a bit of an overpay, even at his current output, and even factoring in his off-court contributions (which are huge both in the locker room and the community), but his contract is not an albatross by any means. Unless there is a solid prospect or top 20 draft pick coming back, I don’t think that you deal him. Remember, the Fox contract is inked – you can’t just go tank city without running the real risk of alienating Fox.

Hield: $22m, $21m, $19m. Again, a bit of an overpay, but he is a proven efficient deep shooter at volume. He is not as easily replaced as it may appear, and his presence is not eating into Haliburton’s minutes – hell, it could be argued that Hield’s presence has helped Haliburton as it has placed him in the position of only significant and consistent bench contributor. And Haliburton sure does log a lot of 4th quarter and game-ending minutes. Again, I think that you have to get a solid prospect or perhaps a top 25 pick back if you move Hield, though I do think that he is much more expendable at this point than Barnes.

Summing up, I wouldn’t let the team’s recent run factor into the decision, but I would set the bar a bit high when it comes to trade return yield.

My guess is that they are both on the roster at season’s end, and perhaps moved in the off-season. (Disclaimer – I know nothing.)

wilbur10
wilbur10
February 12, 2021 12:37 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I pretty much agree with all of this, but the Kings also have to figure out what the hell their plan for Holmes is. If you want to bring him back, don’t they pretty much HAVE to move one of Buddy or Barnes? Which like you said can be done in the off-season and I think that’s probably what will happen. In other words they can only afford to keep 2 of Holmes/Buddy/Barnes, right? (Assuming Holmes gets around 15M/year)

Last edited 13 days ago by wilbur10
RobHessing
February 12, 2021 1:12 pm
Reply to 

They don’t need to clear space to re-sign Holmes. CoJo has a $2.4m buyout. Justin James is not guaranteed. So they are at about $92m on 9 players.

MichaelMack
February 12, 2021 1:52 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I have long thought, barring a desperate offer from a contending team, that Barnes and Buddy might have more value in this offseason, especially now that the Free Agent class talent level has thinned considerably.

I wonder what Orlando is thinking with Fournier, if they really want him back. I wonder if there is a trade scenario where the key pieces are Buddy and Aaron Gordon.

RobHessing
February 12, 2021 1:57 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

Yep. Unless a team like Boston or Philly really produces a healthy offer, there will be more suitors with cap space this coming off season.

Want-to-be-gm
February 12, 2021 6:19 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

That is a great thought. I been thinking there is a deal to be made with Orlando. As bad as it looks for Orlando right now, I don’t think they are in rebuilding mode. They have Fornier’s 17 mil coming off the books and they got Issac and Fultz coming back so Buddy might be a good fit there in their minds.

wilbur10
wilbur10
February 12, 2021 1:53 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

So they’d have roughly 17 million in cap space after buying out Cojo? Yeah, I probably trade Buddy at the deadline or in the off-season as I think that money can be better spent elsewhere, but wouldn’t blame Monte for holding onto him.

This stuff with Buddy reminds me a lot of the Raiders whole debacle with Khalil Mack. Buddy and Mack are not on the same level by any means but the Raiders traded Mack and immediately started looking for pass rushing help- if the Kings move Buddy they’re probably going to look to add shooting somewhere on this roster.

Last edited 13 days ago by wilbur10
RobHessing
February 12, 2021 1:56 pm
Reply to 

The projected cap for 21-22 is $112m and the tax kicks in at $137m. So they have about $20m under the cap and $45m under the tax. And they can go over the cap to re-sign their own and fill out their roster.

Want-to-be-gm
February 12, 2021 6:15 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

For Barnes it’s not about salary dump it’s about the opportunity cost of keeping him. His market value will never be higher and if we can get a couple of nice drafts and/or a good young prospect and clear some salary space, that gives us a lot of options going forward. Who knows but this stretch he’s been having is more likely an anomaly than a permanent step up in play. I’d ride with Buddy for now because I think his value to the Kings is greater than his market value at the moment.

NinjaFetus
February 12, 2021 11:09 am

I had thought we’ve be moving both Barnes and Hield this season, but now I feel like we should keep Barnes. Unless an offer comes along that we really can’t refuse, I think he’s worth more to this team currently both on the court and in the locker room.

Hield I think, as much as I love his shooting, is expendable. Hali has proven he deserves to be in the starting lineup, sooner rather than later. So if that happens, our bench is just going to flat out suck if it’s just Buddy or he’s traded. I’d move either Buddy or Bjelly or both to get picks and improve the bench. I doubt anyone takes Joseph unless we pay them to, but that might help with Guy’s development if he is traded.

I was trying to think of 3 team trades, but I’m not sure what other teams could be included to make it worth Boston’s or Philly’s time.

Wilson
February 12, 2021 11:13 am

Trade Bjelica since he is just rotting on the bench. Trade Buddy and/or CoJo for whatever promising youth or picks that can be had. Give Guy more minutes.

Barnes is too good a teammate, professional, and mentor to trade during a career year.

CheekMagnet
February 12, 2021 3:09 pm
Reply to  Wilson

No picks but I’d try CoJo and Hassan for Dinwiddie. Dinwiddie is on IR and Nets need to be all in.

Last edited 13 days ago by CheekMagnet
Want-to-be-gm
February 12, 2021 6:25 pm
Reply to  Wilson

That’s a really good thought but I think it would take more to get Dinwiddie but he would be a nice addition. I agree that Barnes is a good professional and a class person but I just think given his recent performance his market value is better than his real value to the Kings.

Gregoryl
February 12, 2021 11:28 am

Full disclosure: I am looking at this from purely selfish reasons. Much of the joy I get from being a Kings fan is going to games, interacting with fans (via TKH and in-person), sitting in a packed bar with other Kings fans cheering on the team, etc..
Nothing would be more KANGZ than to sacrifice the future for a season where none of us could be together to watch the playoffs.
In a season where we are likely not going to be able to do any of this, I would rather sell and come back stronger when the fans can be more involved again.

Kosta
February 12, 2021 11:41 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

How many people can we fit on a Zoom watch party?

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:43 am
Reply to  Kosta

Free version? Or is someone splashing that sweet Professional version cash?

Kosta
February 12, 2021 11:47 am

I’ll chip in if we need to go pro!

I read it allows 100 participants for up to 40 minutes with a basic account.

That’s good enough to get us up to halftime I think. Don’t want to watch the third quarter anyway!

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 12:07 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Actually, during COVID they’ve been waving the 40 minute limit.

Kosta
February 12, 2021 12:16 pm

Oh!

Well, the Kings haven’t been so bad in 3rd quarters lately 😀

RORDOG
February 12, 2021 1:08 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Top comment: “RORDOG is passed out in the zoom again”

Kosta
February 12, 2021 11:42 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

Drive-in style Playoff viewing at the old Arco Arena lot?

Just need a massive screen/multiple screens.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 11:43 am
Reply to  Kosta

It’s a good idea.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 11:38 am

Can we revisit this post if we come out and lose to the Magic tonight?

RORDOG
February 12, 2021 12:59 pm

O ye of little faith

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 3:34 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Haha just a reminder that all it takes is one really awful loss for the “TRADE EVERYONE” posts to be back in full force in Kings land.

Last edited 13 days ago by ForKingsandCountry
RORDOG
February 12, 2021 6:04 pm

Yeah I actually changed my mind on tonight. This is the quintessential “kings blow a winnable game after giving fans hope” situation.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 9:31 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

I know Fox was out but that was so bad I think it still counts!

rc50cal
February 12, 2021 8:38 pm

I’ve got on locked and loaded!

alec26
February 12, 2021 11:52 am

Don’t see the point of trading either Harrison Barnes or Buddy Hield. Both players are still comparatively young, 28 and 27 and have several prime years ahead of them. If it’s 2025 and the Kings still can’t get past round two of the playoffs, maybe it’s time to move 31 year old Buddy or 32 year old Harrison while they still have value. Right now the Kings have a nice team. They’re not title contenders but a winning record and a playoff berth are both in sight. Either would break a bad streak covering three decades. The best way for the Kings to build a title contender is to build on this team. Find another mid first round steal in the draft, develop some 2nd rounders into solid rotation players, hey, sign some quality free agents. Free agents don’t want to go to Sacramento if it’s going to be basketball hell, but a basketball good place, why not? Trying to tank just throws away this season, and probably next season and for what end?

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 12:10 pm
Reply to  alec26

I think this is the problem with the way most fans think about how to value players as assets:

Both players are still comparatively young, 28 and 27 and have several prime years ahead of them. If it’s 2025 and the Kings still can’t get past round two of the playoffs, maybe it’s time to move 31 year old Buddy or 32 year old Harrison while they still have value.

The truth is that both Barnes and Hield are in their prime’s right now and will most likely be exiting their primes in the next year or two. Most players do not retain value in their age 31/32 seasons. We see outliers like Lebron or Curry or Durant and they are still playing at a high level into their 30’s or coming major injuries but this just isn’t how it works for the vast majority of players. The value for both Buddy and Barnes is that they are in their prime NOW and they’ve got a couple more years of team control. In a couple years they will be on expiring deals, they’ll be older, and you won’t be able to get anything for either of them. If you simply want to maximize the value of the asset, now is exactly when you trade them.

I understand that the Kings haven’t made the playoffs in a really long time which may be a reason to hang onto one of them (I really hope they don’t hang onto both of them) or trade for a vet that might be able to help a little bit but I think it’s important that the FO doesn’t lose sight of the goal: to win a championship. Topping out as a low seeded playoff team is going to make these years of futility feel even more pointless IMO.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 12:10 pm
Reply to  alec26

Because if you keep them both the Kings will have roughly $88M tied in in 5 players (Buddy, Barnes, Fox, Bagley, and Hali) next year that are not good enough to get you to the playoffs.

Where do you go from there?

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 12:13 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It’s basically a strategy based entirely on multiple big developmental leaps and pulling a Kawhi/Giannis out of the mid-1st hat.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
February 12, 2021 12:19 pm

In other words, a pipe dream.

The simple fact is, landing a top 5 pick this year would go a lot farther to making the playoffs long term then the hopes of keeping the current core rotation together (Buddy and Barnes specifically).

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 12:25 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah I think it’s all about the goal. If the goal is to win a championship then the best way to add the highest level talent on a cheap deal is through the draft. If the goal is to make the playoffs a couple times then maybe they sit tight. I wish I could say that the priority for all NBA franchises is winning a championship but we know that isn’t the case and I’m not sure that’s the case for the Kings. There could be a middle path if they can find another Tyrese Haliburton level player in the late lottery or get lucky with some ping pong balls but the farther back you go the harder it gets to find impact guys obviously.

Last edited 13 days ago by ForKingsandCountry
BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 12:30 pm

Of course, it they make the playoffs, there are no pingpong balls to get lucky with.

Ultimately, my goal (since I don’t think CHAMPIONSHIP OR BUST is a realistic goal for any building franchise) is to build a sustainable winner that can reasonably expect to reach the second round of the playoffs. If you reach the second round regularly, then you’re a “contender” in my book. And I think that’s all you can really ask. I’ll happily take Jazz level of success. Obviously, my tune will change once we get there though.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 12:35 pm

Oh I totally agree and I suppose I should clarify a bit. I think there are incremental steps that have to be taken on the path to championship contention. Not every franchise is competing for a championship all the time obviously. But the overall goal should be competing for a championship, and sadly, I don’t believe that is the overall goal for every franchise. I worry that Vivek would be perfectly happy just making the playoffs a couple times and doesn’t really care all that much long term about whether or not the Kings every win a championship.

Last edited 13 days ago by ForKingsandCountry
Want2win
February 12, 2021 2:28 pm

I would like to introduce you to Tyrese Haliburton! Kind of a middle 1st rounder

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 3:35 pm
Reply to  Want2win

Sometimes you just get lucky. I have no earthly idea what compelled teams like New York, Detroit or Phoenix to pass on Haliburton but I’m sure glad they did.

BestHyperboleEver
February 12, 2021 3:44 pm

Detroit I get. New York was weird but at least they took a guy rated roughly in that range. PHX is truly mind-bottling. I have no idea what the rationale was to reach for Smith when Halliburton was on the board.

Dub_TC
February 12, 2021 12:50 pm
Reply to  alec26

” maybe it’s time to move 31 year old Buddy”

FWIW, he’ll probably be 35 in two years.

rc50cal
February 12, 2021 8:40 pm
Reply to  alec26

I can see saying “I’d like to keep Hield and Barnes and make a run to the 8th seed.” I can’t see saying “I don’t see the point…”. You do it to try to maximize the value of current assets in exchange for future assets.

causalfan
February 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Didn’t read all the comments, but the Kings have a chance to make the playoffs. McNair should stand pat and give the current squad the opportunity. Making the playoffs would increase the visibility of the franchise and put the Kings on the map as a free agent destination.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 12:12 pm
Reply to  causalfan

I can assure you that making the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed one time will most definitely NOT make the Kings a free agent destination. Building a core that can contend for titles for multiple years is what will do that. We are so jaded as Kings fans that it can be easy to forget that the majority of NBA teams make the playoffs every year and most of them are not free agent destinations.

causalfan
February 12, 2021 12:23 pm

Sorry sir but I disagree. The core is already in place, the kings need another all-star to pair with Fox.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 12:27 pm
Reply to  causalfan

Aren’t these contradictory statements though:

The core is already in place, the kings need another all-star to pair with Fox.

The Kings absolutely need another star. There is precisely zero chance that player is coming via free agency. So how are we getting another star player?

BeTheBall
February 12, 2021 12:28 pm

the 2020 draft

causalfan
February 12, 2021 12:32 pm

Show them the money!!.

ForKingsandCountry
February 12, 2021 12:37 pm
Reply to  causalfan

In a league with a salary cap we can’t show them any more money than anybody else. If this were baseball, then sure you just offer them a 7 year 400 million dollar contract and maybe you snag a big star but we don’t have that option.

MidtownMike