Over the course of the last 48 hours, Marvin Bagley has made some interesting social media decisions, seemingly in an attempt to signal his desire to get out of Sacramento. After watching his father engage in a year-long Twitter campaign to get his son traded, Marvin followed in his dad’s footsteps on Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday evening.
Bagley’s first move was to like a tweet that begged for the former number two overall pick to be moved out of Sac after referencing the historical greatness of the 2018 NBA Draft Class.
We gotta get @MB3FIVE outta Sac man😭 https://t.co/bYMrC1fwbX
— Cane©️ (@NottCedd) June 22, 2021
In theory, if that had been the only activity from Bagley, the like could have been interpreted as either an accident or an attempt to promote the original tweet complimenting his draft class, but his actions on Wednesday removed any doubt about his intentions. Marvin deleted all references to both the City of Sacramento and the Kings from his Instagram and Twitter accounts, going as far as to change his location from Sac to Phoenix, the location of his offseason home.
Marvin Bagley’s Twitter and Instagram accounts have removed all references to the Kings and Sacramento.
These screenshots are about 20 minutes apart. pic.twitter.com/YZ9NfpVgu5
— SactownBabyGiraffe (@TimMaxwell22) June 24, 2021
Bagley’s behavior is a little immature, and frankly, unhelpful if he really wants to be dealt away as quickly as possible, but it’s also indicative of how sour the relationship has turned between Marvin and the Kings. By all rights, Bagley and his camp should want out of Sacramento (as should any sane player and their representation, but that’s a discussion for another day), but the ineptitude of the Kings also doesn’t absolve Marvin from his part in the failed marriage. He’s been anywhere from bad to average on the court, has never committed to a physical role in the pick-and-roll or on defense, and his inability to stay healthy over the course of three seasons has hampered any momentum from his excellent rookie season. Outside of improving his three-point shot to solid but not great for a big man, his game hasn’t substantially evolved in any measurable way in his time in a Kings uniform.
Similarly, the Kings are not without blame in this collapsed partnership. They took Marvin too early in a stacked draft and forced both the organization and the player to wilt in the shadows of superstars such as Trae Young and Luka Doncic. Sacramento has also fielded bad rosters and bad coaches over the course Marvin’s career, causing his flaws to shine even brighter amidst the growing frustration of an exhausted fan base. If the Kings were good by now, the Bagley conversation would be a hell of a lot quieter and less intense. And by not trading him at the deadline as so many hoped, including Bagley’s camp, General Manager Monte McNair has now caused the situation to grow from mildly uncomfortable to downright ugly, and the relationship is only going to break down further the longer that Bagley remains in Sacramento.
The worst kept secret in the NBA over the last six months has been the coming Bagley-Sacramento divorce. To put it frankly, a bad draft pick coming to a bad team with a bad owner was always going to equal a bad outcome, and that’s exactly what has happened. Marvin Bagley doesn’t want to be on the Kings. The Kings don’t want Marvin Bagley to be on the Kings, and it’s past time to make that happen, theoretical trade return and rehabbed value be damned. Sometimes relationships simply need to end, and that’s the case with Marvin Bagley and the Sacramento Kings.
I hope the Kings dont give up a draft pick to move on from Bagley, rather they just eat his contract this year ($11 million?). That is if he is not tradeable without giving up asset.
He’s a large expiring contract now. No reason to sweeten a deal with picks, unless the return is pretty impressive.
Put him on the bench for the year and tell his Daddy to wait. He and his Daddy can negotiate in the open market at the end of the season.
Haha username checks out.
Honestly, if more teams had the sac to do this (unless they really liked their trade return) it would nip a lot of this behaviors from players in the bud
Maybe let him play some junk minutes. Every time he does something stupid call a time out to take him out of the game. Highlight his stupidity for the world to see. He might start listening to someone other than Daddy.
Oh man, they’ve probably never thought of that!
No chance of that…
Counter point: Draft his brother and tell him too bad
Kinda hope we trade him for a late first/early second and take Marcus with that pick.
Trade Bagley for a late first rounder and draft his brother. That trade may be worth just seeing the tweets from his dad alone LOL
At this point, this team is only worth drama and comedy, so may as well. We’re not winning anyway.
Don’t trade him and send him to the G League where he can stack numbers which is all he really cares about.
No no no. Of course we won’t win with an attitude like that. I’m 15 years tired too my friend, but I still believe in these dudes. They’ll get it right soon. It won’t be without some major moves though.
I mean, his dad named one of his kids Marvin, so his judgement ain’t exactly solid.
If he named him after the legendary singer, it’s a great choice, IMO.
If after the marvelous boxer, it’s another great choice.
If after the hitchhiking robot, meh, not too shabby.
If after the Martian, I can understand…Space Jam and all.
If after Marv Albert, I’ve got questions.
You forgot the possibility of the Monopoly obsessive.
Narrator:
Marvin Bagley III was in fact named after his father, Marvin Bagley II.
Reason #2855 why I love this place.
Great, so there’s at least TWO generations of stupid preceding MB3.
No you don’t, I coached against him in HS, not going to be anything in the NBA
Was that from one of your inspirational speeches?
I want absolutely no part of any more Bagleys … they’re like the Ball family but without the talent.
Brutal
Here’s a plan.
= Buddy and Bagley to Okc for Kemba Walker
= Fox to Toronto for Siakam and Chris Boucher
= Kings #9 pick and second round pick to OKC for Roby, Maledon and # 16 pick
= #16 pick from Toronto and Wright, and two second round picks to Dallas for Porzinges
= sign Muscala and Harkless to a veteran minimum contracts
Starting Lineup
Kemba
Haliburton
Barnes
Siakam
Porzinges
bench – Boucher, Roby, Maledon, Davis, Woodard, Muscala, Harkless, Metu
Lol that’s horrible.
Putting aside other issues, I don’t think the money works in the TOR and DAL trades, does it?
Regardless, this isn’t likely the route I would take but I DO think Siakam and Roby are interesting targets. And I DO think the Kings need to take a cue from the Thunder and start looking at bad contracts as an avenue to acquire talented-but-overpaid-players + assets.
We both know that’s never gonna happen as it’s pretty clear that Vivek has no interest in going the asset accumulation route. We’ve been clamoring for this path for years and they’ve never even hinted at that being the plan.
Yet we still manage to accumulate bad assets. Vivek is always two seconds ahead.
you could trade down to 16 pick up Roby and Maledon and likely get a player like Duarte who’s just as serviceable as the 9 pick. I only know the players I’ve seen and Green is the best player of those and Duarte is better than some of the higher rated players I’ve see. We don’t have a lot of cap space to be acquiring an overpaid but serviceable player for assets. That’s something I’ve been advocating for a long time and it’s an effective and yet obvious strategy that has been used effectively by other teams. The Kemba deal gets us out of the Buddy contract and Kemba might be more moveable than Buddy. Siakam will take a significant asset to snatch and Boucher is a late blooming ex duck.
People rate Duarte really low because he’s 24. NBA team scouts only rate you amazing if you’re in that 17 to 19 range it seems like.
Could they take Kemba and then roll him to Toronto for Siakam? When Lowry is gone, will toronto need a point guard? I’m sure the contract would be hard for them to swallow, but maybe we add a pick. for the record, I hate adding picks.
I don’t want you to be the GM. No disrespect.
of course you fail to provide any rebuttal and I doubt you know these players your criticizing with the exception of Porzinges who yes is a gamble but the Kings have to take some shots.
Well I will provide rebuttal for Carl then…team player.
You mention that the Kemba deal gets us out of the Buddy deal and Kemba might be more moveable than Buddy. IF true, then why does OKC do that? For the pleasure of getting Bagley as the sweetener to taking on a worst contract (according to you)?
You insinuate not much difference between 16 and 9 in terms of “serviceable players”. Again if true, why is OKC giving Maledon and Roby for the opportunity to get the same tier of player? (according to you)
I don’t think some of these statements are accurate, but the reasoning given for why other teams would make the deal and be in the same situation the Kings are in for these scenarios, doesn’t make a ton of sense.
Wait, it matters what the other team wants?
I mean, it’s certainly more fun to pretend it doesn’t!
OK. $174 million in committed contract, including $68 million this season (60% of the salary cap), for two players who have missed 30% of games over the last two years and who have long term injury and effectiveness concerns.
Besides that though
Three thumbs up, 32 down in your last three posts
And that’s suppose to mean something. You’re record is pretty poor and I’ve got 2 high school state championships in my pocket.
And 4 touchdowns in a single game?
Polk High represent!
Do High Schools have GM’s? Lots of trades and draft pick swaps there.
The schools are in Canada, you wouldn’t know them!
LOL, wow ¦ high school. Cool story.
I am rubber you are glue¦¦ everything I say makes the kings suck longer for you!
You’re still wearing your letter jacket, aren’t you.
Pete D? Is that you?
Kemba and KP are both injury prone- have to get an orthopedic ward in the trade to make it work.
and build around Fox and his age.
Roby is ok but he was kok for a bad team. Same as E. Paschal with duds last year- made all rookie team.
LOL
Well, that’s certainly one way to get a top 4 pick in 2022.
Maybe that’s the plan?
15 down votes has to be a record.
No No not even close to a record. I got over 30 down votes when I criticized the George Hill signing, then about that many when I criticized the Dedmon signing, almost that many when I said we grossly overpaid for COJO. Then double digit down votes when I wanted Jeremy Grant when he was on OKC. I’ll stick by my record which many hate when I remind people. I’ll add somewhere close to this many when I said moving down to get Justin Jackson and Giles instead of drafting Adebayo was a huge mistake. I did get some thumbs up when I said Vlade was perhaps the worst NBA executive ever 2 years prior to his resignation. I think that’s a pretty good record.
Were we even on this platform when those first two events happened? Because I’m pretty sure StR didn’t have a “thumbs down” option.
Correct.
Incorrect
On str. Where I got hammered for criticizing the Hill signing as soon as it occurred. You remember all that mentoring talk and how I said how much that mentoring meant. I also hammered Hessing (section ) for his Dedmon recommendation. One of the few times someone actually proposes something that actually happens.
So you would never admit it of course. I’ll stick by my record.
Say hi to Joel for me.
Sorry, man.
Yeah, four obvious takes amidst hundreds of absurd trades that literally nobody wants ¦ congrats, I guess?
Is there any way you consider maybe finding another team or at least not posting in public?
It’s almost 30 now.
Pretty good thumbs up to thumbs down ratio here
I really tried to downvote you an additional 17 times.
I will you could have that would have brought me up to the rebuttal level I got on Str when I criticized the Hill signing as soon as it occurred. The pack mentality was all running wild with the mentoring term which I debunked. When’s the last time you heard that word.
Geez you like cap hell, players unable to stay healthy, and making sure we miss the playoffs at least 18 years straight minimum. Other than that maybe we can move up and get the 8th pick next year with that roster.
Hopefully he doesn’t lose any endorsements
The Walking Boot, by Bagley.
These Boots Are Made For Walkin’, by Sinatra.
This is amazing
Bravo.
I hope the FO takes a hard line stance on this. Don’t let DoucheBagley set a precedent where a player can immaturely pout their way out of town. Bagley is screwing over the Kings and their fans in more ways than one. His already low trade value is cratering with each douchebag move he makes which only makes it more difficult to trade him and makes him a King even longer which is obviously not what he or his infantile family want. You know behind the scenes the FO and Bagley have an agreement that they’ll do all they can to trade him this offseason, yet Bagley can’t maintain basic professionalism and stop with the infanitle social media antics. Dude needs to grow up.
I hope Monte and Vivek grow a pair and hold out for a fair trade and don’t just unload him for nothing. At the very least, he should be included as a piece in a trade (a sweetner) involving Buddy or Barnes or perhaps a bigger trade where we acquire an all star with a bunch of players go both ways.
Just my take, excuse me if I made it to personal, but I take Bagley’s behavior personal as a King’s fan.
What if nothing for Bagley IS a fair trade value?
I was told there was a bag of chips.
Bagley isn’t screwing over anyone.
His value has tanked because he’s a bad basketball player. All the drama doesn’t replace that simple fact. His father’s tweets don’t set market value, his play does. And right now he’s a backup big with lots of upside, a typical term used for any young, below average player.
Although to be fair, I should probably check in with AM Radio Board Op Guy to see if I’m fanning correctly this morning.
This.
He has absolutely no power. If his value has tanked to the point where we have to give something up for him then keep him, unless packaged on a Buddy trade
On the court, he’s should not be gifted the starting job again, he needs to accept a bench PF-C scoring-rebounding role where he will excel for 15-24 min, then his value will be acceptable again at the deadline.
Never forget that you were wrong once.
The fun thing about being a King fan, is this comes with the caveat that 2 of his 3 years have been under Luke Walton who ha seemingly minimized the talent / development of many player on the Lakers and Kings.
This isn’t to absolve Bagley. He’s been mediocre and he hasn’t done anything to show he deserve a bigger role or to justify his draft slot / salary. However, there are probably smarter ways to use him when he’ been healthy.
So any trade is going to come with 75% relief that this turbulent chapter is over and 25% dread that even if Bagley isn’t a star player, that another coach will unlock his potential and we’ll have downgraded our talent again in order to keep a meh coach.
Imagine how good Fox, Haliburton, and Holmes will be if we replace Walton!
i think The Running Joerger Offense was probably the best way to use Bagley.
Hate to give Walton credit and I am, while understanding that some don’t, but Fox, Holmes, and Hali all had awesome offensive seasons.
Just need a coach to put offense and defense together. That’s not Walton.
And somehow the team didn’t improve even one game. It’s sort of an amazing level of incompetence.
If anything, this season felt like a slight overperformance.
By the advanced numbers, they overperformed recordwise (by three wins if you believe BBRef, 4 if you believe ESPN).
The team went from 18th in NetRating under Joerger to 21st and 24th subsequently. This, with “career years” from a few players.
The trendlines are not encouraging.
Especially considering the defensive woes.
It’s kind of magical.
Fox made a big leap under Joerger. BPM is far from perfect, but he leaped from -4.2 to 1.5 under Joerger (part of that is just natural learning and us running a faster pace). In two years with Walton, he’s a been a 1.8 and 1.4 (though OBPM has improved and DBPM has gone down).
Holmes it is fair to give Walton credit, if we are going to ding him for other players.
Hali is tricky, just because he is a good basketball player. We don’t really have a contrast here.
Complete understand the advanced stats don’t look pretty for Fox and did not improve, but I’m trusting my eye test on this one. The biggest things Kings fans needed proven was “Is he a #1 option for this team? Can he shoot the 3 confidently?”
I think he answered those. The 1st question was answered by default because who else do we got, but he still did it. And it was all under Walton as head coach this year so I gotta give him some credit.
But I still agree with the advanced stays arguments yes.
On Hali, I agree his talent and IQ were already there, but again he had a great season with Walton as HC so I gotta give Walton some credit.
He shoots the three confidently, just not very successfully.
Even that makes a huge difference in his game in opening up the drive for him.
Unlike Simmons and Giannis.
Not against good defenses. If this team were in the playoffs, guys would absolutely play off Fox, go under screens, etc.
I don’t think we can assume anything about Fox in playoffs until it actually happens. While I agree, sagging off him is still a sound strategy tho he’s not a complete loss like Simmons or lesser losses like Giannis and Westbrook.
Hopefully Fox will be in the 35% range or higher by then to make them pay.
Seriously, four thumbs up for this? Giannis and Westbrook are likely Hall of Famers. Simmons is the best defensive player and one of the top playmakers in the league. All three have spent their entire careers in the playoffs. Fox is really good at running fast.
That’s the issue. Walton just let Fox and co. go all run-and-gun and play like their in an All Star game (and maybe that’s why the players like him so much because they aren’t getting yelled at and get to score points). And even with all that “improved offense” they literally had the same record as last.
Completely understand all the arguments about the results of the team and I for one knew I was walking a thin line giving Luke credit, but Fox did have a different mentality as THE guy at the end of games this year. Something he didn’t have under Joerger but showed towards the end of last year under Luke, so I’m just trying to connect dots.
That was really all I wanted to see from Fox along with a willingness to shoot 3s, so in my mind Luke deserves SOME not all credit for that.
i think The Running Joerger Offense was probably the best way to use Bagley.
But he wasn’t nice to the players! God, Vlade is so stupid.
I thought it was the feud w/Williams that supposedly led to Joerger’s firing?
TBF it was telling that none of the players said a damn thing when he was fired, no other team has offered him a HC job or even interviewed him this season, and there was a running complaint about him being a jerk to the media. It’s pretty clear he’s a very difficult person to work with, and he’s not a good enough coach to make it worth the effort.
I’d still take him on a billion-year Scientology-style contract over one more year of Walton, though.
Here is a harder one to swallow. Imagine how good fox, haliburton and Holmes would be on a team that can develop and knew wtf they were doing.
I don’t think it’s coincidental that about 90% of StR thought Bagley had a great rookie season under Joerger, and maybe 40% still held out hope Vlade was right (that he would turn out to be a better player than Luka).
Then Luke Walton happened.
I’ll still think that Bagley’s ceiling is probably a bench big on a good team, but there’s no point in just cutting him loose. Bagley’s using what little leverage he has, and McNair is under no obligation to even acknowledge it.
Fully agree. Even if we never fried Joerger, he was never going to be better than Doncic. But said at the time of the draft that the team that took him would need to use him as a unique, offensive weapon and focus on getting him into space and cutting, especially early on.
Joerger did a solid job of that, partially with our pace. Walton really has not, though to be fair, Bagley has been hurt. Thought Dallas would have been a good place for Bagley in 2018. Carlisle is very creative and thought he could have taken advantage of him at minimum the same way he does with Powell.
It amazes me how cool most fans are with player entitlement, I mean player empowerment.
I think it’s great. Run your franchise/business better.
Yep, workers at the pinnacle of their craft get more agency in dictating who they work for and how they’re compensated. It’s true in every industry.
Yep. When Bagley had a surprisingly good stretch of play earlier this season, I said he was a below-average player who looked to be approaching average. Then he got hurt, and sucked, and got hurt again, so yeah, he’s just a below-average player.
He’s following the Buddy Hield plan of whining to the point where the team finally gives you what you want.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease? Or gets replaced?
Buddy whines….Kings part with Bogi….Vivek celebrates a play-in near miss.
I understand this. But the objective is to get what little we can for him, and all decisions related to Bagley should be measured by one thing: does it help the Kings move him for the best possible return.
TheGrantNapear – not a fan of immarturity.
also TheGrantNapear – “DoucheBagley”
Sacto_J – stopped reading.
We’ll see. I think he needs to go, but I guarantee you Vivek is terrified he goes elsewhere and starts putting up numbers.
Him going elsewhere and putting up numbers is almost a certainty.
Bagley is good, he just gets injured and he comes with a lot of drama. If your fear is him producing elsewhere, then you don’t move him, but that’s not also why you’re considering moving him right now.
The relationship is shattered and I’m not entirely sure a head coaching change salvages it with Team Bagley. In which case, it’s time to move on.
Bagley is good? Since when has he been good? He actually pretty clearly isn’t good. If he was good but injured this would be a different conversation. If anything, him being injured has masked the fact that he isn’t good.
Yep.
He was the teams best rebounder and was some how efficient while playing with one hand. He started to fit in the offense and let the game come to him before he got hurt.
Statistically and productivity wise we will hate this trade in a few years. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t trade him though.
He was the teams best rebounder because, (little secret) you get credit for getting your own rebound. I with my own eyes sadly watched him double double his way into good paper stats because he went 8 for 21 and each of those misses he got his own rebound twice. Is that good? I mean I guess he got his miss?
I am quite sure I will not hate whatever trade ends up happening to ship Bagley out of town. I have believed that he would be bust since the pre-draft process in 2018. I remember Richie and I back on the old site saying on draft night that not only was taking Bagley a terrible pick because Doncic was so clearly a superior player (I also thought JJJ was a superior player and so far he is though he’s had injury issues as well) but Bagley would also be a bust making it look even worse.
My not liking Bagley has always had to do with his game. The injuries are hard to account for but the style of play, lack of BBIQ, lack of any type of ability to facilitate, lack of rim protection and basic lack of feel for the game are not. They were abundantly clear going into that draft and all of those things remain huge issues now.
Sure he’s improved his shooting and has made minor improvements in some areas but the larger issue in my eyes was the fact that he was framed as an elite talent when I simply do not believe that was ever the case.
Hard to say he’s been good, relative to other NBA players. He clearly improved as his minutes increased, and he’s still a 22 year old with only 3,000 NBA minutes under his belt. The second half of his third season looked a lot like his rookie season.
His ability to physically stay on the court is in question, but so is his ultimate upside.
Bagley isn’t good. And any numbers he puts up this season will not be in service of making his team better.
That could be said of anyone on a shitty team.
Fine. Bagley doesn’t make his teammates better, which can’t be said of everyone on a shitty team.
Neither did Fox, in his first 3,000 minutes in the league. Neither has Haliburton, to this point (statistically, anyway).
I thought Hali got his teammates involved pretty well when he was on the floor, maybe even a bit too much. Just the eye test.
I’m simply talking statistically. But would agree, the eye test seems positive for Hali’s future.
I just have to say Otis.
Kudos for sticking to statistics and advanced stats as your main guns.
Not a joke, not trying to be snarky, but I admire the commitment. You already know I’m all about the eye test with Fox and Hali so a little contrast is nice here.
I tend to believe that the eye test is going to be somewhat flawed, since the eyes are connected to a brain that processes that data in an inconsistent/biased manner.
Advanced stats aren’t the be-all, end-all, but they do help me question the common wisdom, or my personal eye test – especially as the sample sizes grow.
It’s why I was out on DeMarcus Cousins pretty early, because the advanced stats (as rough as they were at the time) showed some flaws for the Kings as a team with him as the centerpiece. But the eyeball test was excellent, he looked at times like a perennial all-NBA player.
It’s also why I argued so hard for the team to match Isaiah Thomas when he was an RFA, even though it was hard to fathom that a player of that stature could be an impact player in the NBA.
I suspect De’Aaron Fox is going to be a very good NBA player for a long time. I think Haliburton will be as well. But I’ll be checking the numbers, because one thing advanced stats show is that elite players don’t just put up solid personal stats – their teams do as well. And that trend usually starts showing up early in a career.
What do the advanced stats say about ben simmons? I’m ok at looking up basic box score counting stats, but the minutia of advanced stats goes over my head. With simmons a depressed asset, maybe the kings should he all in on getting him.
Your mileage may vary on advanced defensive stats (there’s a lot of argument about their efficacy), but he’s generally considered an elite guy at that end of the floor.
The arguments on the offensive end are obvious – he’s a pretty terrible shooter. Highly efficient as a scorer, but very low volume. His teams are significantly better offensively with him on the floor, probably due to his ability to penetrate and dish.
And that appears to be true with or without Embiid, apparently.
Honestly, we need RORDOG back – the advanced statistics I look at are pretty archaic now compared to some of the stuff he delves into. I’ve been interested to see his opinion on Simmons and how he might fit on the Kings.
Hey man, I’m all for advanced stats.
Walks and launch angle = another World Series for my Giants.
I’ve never had a handle on advanced metrics in MLB. This is some voodoo shit going on with the Giants.
I’m going to ignore these voices in my head telling me these old guys will melt in the heat of summer and just enjoy the present. 🙂
The pitchers are playing so good, and let’s hope buster and the two Brandon’s stay healthy. It’s not an even year, so I’m scared.
Brandon Belt last night:
The pitching finally caught up with the home runs this year. Normally home runs go dry in the playoffs, but the difference is this team still excels at timely hits.
If pitching and timely hits doesn’t scream 2010-2016 Giants then idk what does.
But it’s time to make a move. For a big consistent hitter or an Ace.
Pretty sure the Giants have a blog you guys can go find, so we can all resume bashing Pervis Bagley.
Yes, we need a starter and bullpen help. The more pitching we have the better.
Advance stats in baseball (& hockey) usually make more senses to me than advanced stats in basketball.
appreciate the insight. No pun intended.
What stat are you looking at?
The team’s performance with them on the floor, mostly. But it’s been a while since I looked up Fox’s early career numbers, just remember that he was a net negative early on
Hali was the 60th ranked PG in the league by RPM last season.
Fair. I see on/off as fairly biased toward the lineup and not the individual, but I have no suggestions for a better stat.
That’s what they said about Derrick Williams too.
Actually – Bagley sucks.
There’s going to be a trivia question someday (maybe 10 years from now) about that photo with Ayton, Trae, Doncic, and Adam Silver:
Q: who is the guy in the top left of the photo, what team drafted him, and at what pick?
“Ummm…let’s see…is that Thomas Robinson? Ben McLemore? Georgios Papagiannis? How about Jimmer Fredette?”
Nik Stauskas: “Hold my beer.”
in all those drafts a far superior talent was selected later.
There is a pattern here.
Q: Who is the odd one out?
A: Marvin Bagley III. Others can use their right hand.
Also A: Others are good basketball players and by all accounts not doosh bags
I don’t know, seems like Luka is kind of a douchebag.
Also Luka: Two-time All-NBA First Team selection who has led his team to the playoffs twice in three years ¦ at the exact same age as Bagley.
I keep thinking about this quote from this Bogi article: For us, basketball is the no. 1 option, our only option, Bogdanovic said. Serbian teams want you fully committed. ¦ There is no thinking about what you’re going to do with your money. You cannot be a basketball player and, let’s say, rapper or businessman over there. You’re only a basketball player. If you want to do something else, do something else, but don’t fuck with the game. I wonder if he was referencing someone specific? https://www.theringer.com/2021/6/8/22523435/bogdan-bogdanovic-atlanta-hawks-serbia-playoffs
All due respect, and this isn’t targeted at you, but I also fully disagree with the implication of this quote (or how it is being positioned here). And this type of thinking is only applied when there is a player like WCS or Bagley who doesn’t seem fully committed or who doesn’t develop how we would like.
The problem is their lack of commitment, but these players are humans with lives and with interests outside of basketball and that is 100% ok and has zero correlation with this success.
LeBron has a family, runs his global brand, and does TV and movies while still having several rings and being a top 5 all time player. Jordan loved to play golf. Steph Curry golfs and seems like a very involved parent. Lillard has recorded rap albums. Kobe Bryant played the piano. Donovan Mitchell and Trae Young are avid Fortnight and other video game players. Chris Paul and Mike Conley play golf.
WCS didn’t disappoint because he liked to paint. Bagley isn’t disappointing us because he likes to rap. There are plenty of hours in a day to focus at a Jorden/Kobe-level on basketball and to have extra-curricular activities you like to unwind and be a complete person outside of the sport. The best players are not these monotonous robots who literally play and practice basketball 24/7 and only take a break from playing to watch film while eating.
My apologies for ranting/riffing off of your post, but I think it’s wrong when people assume that NBA players are not people with interests or blame their having even a modicum of a life outside of basketball for their failures and then use that to crucify other players who show any healthy interests in outside pursuits. Players fail because they are not dedicated or just not good enough, not because they like video games, rap, parenting, or art.
This is excellent, and I feel bad for anyone that can’t wrap their head around such a simple concept.
The die was cast as soon as VD chose Bagley at #2, and ahead of Doncic. Short of becoming an all-star, he never had any chance of being accepted in Sacramento. All of the other shit, his dad, rapping, etc., are just snags that people like to get stuck on to try and justify their vitriol about Bagley as a basketball player.
Pretty much this
The gall.
Agree that criticizing the extracurricular stuff is dumb, and Bagley is plenty bad enough as a basketball player that no other criticism is necessary.
I actually don’t think he had to be an All Star to be accepted. He always had a tough road. No question. Where he was picked was not his fault. Being injured constantly is not his fault.
That being said, he wouldn’t have been loved but I think he could have been accepted, if he had kept his head down, played hard, figured out how to be positive publicly and actually improved over the last three years. His selfish, low IQ play, lack of meaningful improvement, leaving the team during his injury and the consistent negative and entitled talk from his camp (with nothing coming from him that improved it) has never been good and has worn people out. His camp thinks the team is holding him back by not gifting him even more unproductive minutes. That’s a sad joke, as Bagley will undoubtedly learn the hard way in his next stop.
At this point, it doesn’t matter anyway. He wants out and the Kings should accommodate him.
Your first sentence agrees that criticizing the extracurricular stuff is dumb, and then cite plenty of it among your other valid criticisms.
Criticizing his hobbies is dumb. Everything else I said is directly related to the basketball player or the team.
Reducing everything to pedanticism is a little old.
Wasn’t your story on this that just because Bagley’s team wanted him out that didn’t mean he wanted out?
Best thing for Bagley personally and professionally is to move on. Cannot blame him for recognizing that. Is he being smart about it? No….
If he gets to play somewhere else this season, he’s being smart about it.
I don’t think many NBA front offices are willing to pay him this season. The more drama he creates the more likely it is that the other teams wait for his free agency. Bagley and his Daddy are going to go cheap in free agency.
I agree with you on this. One aspect of kids sports is the idea that they have to pick ONE sport at age 5 and play or practice 7 days a week. It’s like parents are trying to create these Type-A personas to suit their own vision of who the kid is.
I had a buddy who played college basketball. He quit sometime in the middle of his time in college. I asked if he were disappointed. He said, Hell, no. He then described a life of nonstop basketball games, practices, “and then every weekend there was some sort of damn tournament.” Plus, he had to listen to parents, friends and coaches constantly telling him to keep keeping on. It was quite enlightening.
He’s since gone on to spend time biking, skiing, doing triathlons; so, he still has quite an athletic lifestyle, but at his own pace and direction. He’s much more content.
My only nuance to what Bogi said is, if he were making a shadow reference to Bagley, maybe he was saying that Bagley was lackadaisical in the basketball side of things. If you are a professional, you are going to need to put in the time for skill development and conditioning. Maybe he was saying he was doing other things at the expense of his basketball responsibilities, especially if the player is a starter and screwing up. Maybe that was the imbalance? You could read Bogi’s criticism as not everyone can do two jobs, rather than a basketball player cannot ever have hobbies. Maybe he is talking about putting more focus on the job that is paying the bills and supporting your colleagues. I think there is room for nuance in Bogi’s statement.
However, in general, I don’t like it when players cast shade like this (if Bogi was). Bogi is in Atlanta now, on a good team, leave the past behind.
Yeah, I’m no fan of Bagley, but the complaints about him rapping are ridiculous and nasty, even.
We’ve had a ton of white players drafted too high flame out with the Kings in recent years – Jimmer, Stauskas, Papagiannis. Pretty weird that we didn’t ask for an accounting of how they used their off-court time. We can just let those guys be not good enough for the NBA without presuming to know what does or doesn’t distract them.
Obviously Jimmer, Stauskas, and co. did other things with their free times besides practice basketball, but they also weren’t plastering those other things all over social media and publicly labeling themselves a “[other thing]er” and promoting their “[other thing]” abilities while ALSO promoting themselves as NBA MVP candidates. This is about self-presentation and knowing how to responsibly present yourself to an audience, which is part of being a professional in any industry. If you’re going to talk the talk, you need to walk the walk. Dame, LeBron, etc., all walk the walk. Bagley does not, and that is why he gets roasted for his outside interests. If Jimmer had put out a country album at the same time he was playing human turnstile on the court, I dare say he would have received some public criticism for his attempts at crooning.
Best quote from the story: You can’t just let that kind of player go for free, you know? Nemanja Bjelica, a former teammate of Bogdanovic’s on the Kings and current teammate on the Serbian national team, said in a phone call last week. But you know, he is now in a better place. It’s better there for him.
The Bogi contract expectation was high- 4/72. That would have tied up the cap. The Bucks trade, that never was, would have been ok- Divencenso+ junk + a pick. Then Atlanta wanted Kings to take on Tony Snell contract- high and 2 years.
Third option was “let him go for nothing”.
Hawks willing to pay that, go over cap to have a 5th guy. Bogi would have been third guy on Kings and tied up cap.
I hope same mess s not repeated with Holmes.
What’s the second worst team situation in the NBA after the Kings?
Send him there.
L*kers.
Send him to the L*kers.
Or the Warriors or Heat.
See how Green or Jimmy Butler like his attitude.
I want to see this. Butler vs. Bagley, training camp, day 1. Someone call HBO and get an NBA “Hard Knocks” spinoff going.
Dallas is a hot mess right now.
I think the universe wants Doncic and Bagley on the same team.
Dallas likely wants to move ZInger and his deal. Kings want to move Bagley. There is definitely a dimension out there where this happens.
But no dimension where KP’s anchor contract plays out better than Bagley’s expiring one.
OK, I got it … Bagley and Hield for Luka and Porzingis. Done!
love this- trade one injury for another.
*Willie and Bagley
Willie and Bagley just makes too much sense.
The Soft Towers
Two hands between the two of them. Imagine them both coming down with rebounds.
If there’s anyone that can unlock the amare stoudamire in bagley, it’s luka.
Amare is one of my all-time favorites … please don’t insult him by throwing Pervis’s name anywhere near his.
Cleveland or Minnesota.
Maybe New York because
A) If he ain’t playing D he ain’t getting time
B) Even if he cracked the rotation end of bench guys barely get more than 8 minutes with Thibs pushing his starters, especially if he’s behind Randle. DNP-CDs
I love the idea of sending him to the Knicks. I don’t care much for Thibs, but Bagley’s time would be based on learning and not whining, and that’s what he needs.
Send him to Philly, they have no time for posers who talk but don’t deliver
Is there a 2nd worse long term team situation than the kings? The divide seems so expansive at this point.
If somehow Evan Mobley falls to Cavs then we have to go for Jarrett Allen.
Buddy/Bagley/9th for D. Garland/Jarrett Allen (S&T). May have to be done on two separate deals?
Allen and Mobley would actually be a really nice front court fit together. I don’t see why drafting Mobley would necessitate moving Allen.
Tough call, two 7 footers rarely successful these days. You can probably look at Indiana but even there, that’s pretty much their ceiling. One of those guys would have to guard guys like Harrison and we all saw how Barnes ate that up.
Nah, both are able to defender both front court positions and are switchable on the perimeter. And one has the perimeter skills to play away from the basket more. I think wherever he goes, we’ll likely see Mobley play PF more early in his career anyway. A lot like how JJJ and Valanciunas play together. It’s isn’t about height, it’s about skill sets.
too costly
Garland is too small.
Holmes and Allen redundant
https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1408080007268900866
Sources: The Kings are sticking with Walton as head coach. His contract is for more money than his services are worth.
And Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
Geez, who could have seen this coming on draft night 2018? Oh everybody? Huh.
We had a better selection two days ago
I just knew when it was confirmed the Kings were taking Bagley in the draft that it was going to all go wrong…
Didn’t that news come out the day before the draft? And we all freaked out?
Yeah. Day before it was pretty much known. I felt sick to my stomach, hoping it was a trick of some sort to leak that info. Then when I actually heard the words while watching the draft… I think that’s when my fandom finally broke. Why should I care about this team if they don’t care enough about themselves to make good (and painfully obvious) basketball decisions?
You’re the one still here three years later, so you tell us.
Thats a question 8 years too late when Dame and CJ were in our gym killing workouts and we told them they were going to be drafted by us but then switched course when 2 busts fell in the draft right into our laps.
Don’t go with what you know but go with what you think you know. That is our draft strategy. Just like Vlade passing on his friend’s son and a EuroLeague MVP. It’s not like Vlade should have any extra expertise in that area.
I said after the pick that we just set ourselves back 10 years.
It’s a situation where even though there were plenty of voices saying Bagley to the Kings was a done deal, I actually couldn’t believe they could possibly be that stupid. Silly me right?
Is there any team out there that can actually use him or have the track record of developing a player with Bagley’s flaws? If not, he is destined to either ride out his contract here in Sac and leave via free agency or he is nothing more that trade filler to make numbers work. His value is that low, IMO.
Pop would kick his a$s.
I thought about S.A. but they prefer guys with high BBallIQ who can play within a system. I’m not sure Bagley fits that bill. That being said, they can fit his deal into their cap space.
I mean any of the usual good developmental teams can develop him (Miami, San Antonio, Toronto), he just needs to stay healthy.
Which is the worst thing about this situation. What if he leaves then actually stays healthy for the rest of his career? If he does that, anything can happen.
IMO, I don’t think other GMs are going to worry about his health as much as they will worry about his game. He is a matador on defense, can’t set a screen, is a black hole on the offensive end and can’t grasp the basics of team play.
I think a team would need a stellar coach and staff that not only has the time to develop Bagley quickly but also the need.
The other issue is his contract. Had the Kings moved him earlier any team would have had more time to work with him. Now, they have one guaranteed year and will then need to decide to extend him, off him the QO, or let him walk. A team would need to be confident about keeping him long term and invest in him.
All of those factors combined leaves me wondering where he could end up. OKC might be on option as they are on an extended timeline, but I don’t see any playoff team willing to take that chance.
I think some playoff teams would as there is the usual narrative “get him outta Sac and in a winning environment and we can fix him”.
While everything u said about his individual play is true, athleticism, tools, and draft status will buy a player about 3 or more extra chances than the normal scrub. Through all his flaws the narrative on him is still former top recruit, #2 pick with plus athleticism and an improved jumper.
Also, kudos on his contract being an issue, that certainly ties the Kings hands even more.
Agreed. He has some talent for scoring, and he’s so bad in the other areas that he almost couldn’t be worse.
So you think he’d follow the path of a Stromile Swift, Derrick WIlliams, or Darko Milicic? If that is the case, why would any team give up assets to acquire him?
I think Kangz Landing has a point to some degree. I mean Darko was traded for a 1st round pick after 2.5 years of showing way less than Marvin has. Just takes one…
Unfortunately the Kigns can’t trade him to themselves for 2 future firsts.
I think the difference is, Darko was on the bench and hardly playing on a very good Detroit team. Bagley on the other hand, has been given as many minutes he can handle (when healthy) and has shown he doesn’t understand the game.
You’re right, but I think there are teams that believe they can fix him. No one is giving up a significant asset, but a late first or early second isn’t crazy, or something like an overperforming, rotation-level recent second round pick.
I guess my thinking is a late first rounder is likely coming from a capped out contender. So why would they want an $11M project when they are competing for a title?
From that, I could see a non-competitive/low salaried team taking a flyer on him for a 2nd rounder or two. OKC fits that bill, I suppose.
I’m not sure who owns which picks, but I agree that a capped out contender wouldn’t want him if they’re taking on salary. If they’re sending back salary, especially salary beyond this season, I think there’s a possibility.
My thought would be more along the lines of a young or bad team who owns or acquires someone else’s pick.
Houston owns the #23 and #24. Maybe they’d be willing?
Could be. Bagley and our second for one of those picks?
Sounds great to me … but why would Houston do that? This draft is allegedly loaded.
An example of a contender taking a chance on his upside while shedding equal salary could be Brooklyn. They could use Bagley as a live body who just needs to finish easy buckets created by their 3 superstars and clean up some rebounds, while sending De’Andre Jordan and a 2nd round pick out. The upside for them is that Bagley for all his faults is more ready to contribute than an average 2nd rounder, plus it’s only a one year risk if he doesn’t fit. If he does work out, they have RFA to try to keep him, which helps them since they don’t have space to sign UFAs.
Another difference: Bagley has better hair than Darko.
Derrick Williams was traded for Luc Mbah a Moute, by the Kings but whatever.
Darko fetched Detroit A FIRST ROUNDER from Orlando.
And Stromile wasn’t traded but still signed a 4 year $22mill deal when he hit FA
While all were still disappointments, the main narrative remained that teams still valued them.
I think those would be Bagley’s ceiling.
They wouldn’t, and they aren’t.
Maybe utah with favors, but I’m certain they’re very happy with the minutes he already gives. Charlotte to take biyombo or zellers spot?
It’ not just about the team, it’s about Bagley. And, to date, he hasn’t shown the maturity necessary to do what he needs to do to become a serviceable NBA player.
To be fair to Bagley I think there are a lot of teams that could get way more out of him and develop some of his flaws out. I have never been a fan of the kid but I also think this is the worst possible place to go in the NBA if you need any work at all. We have never ever developed guys ever. Even players with a lot of talent that were good here always excel on teams that are run better as far as X’s and O’s.
Is he ever going to go to another team and be an all star? No I don’t think so. But I think another team will be able to get more out of him in a useful way than we ever have or ever we’re going to.
He’s a high usage ball dominant big that needs offense run thru him to succeed and doesn’t find his own shot very often. Bigs like that went extinct with Vlades contemporaries.
“He’s a high usage ball dominant big that needs offense run thru him to succeed and doesn’t find his own shot very often. Bigs like that went extinct with Vlades contemporaries.”
And doesn’t play defense, either. And believes that he is an All-Star being held back by a terrible organization.
Which is why I don’t see a team spending a lot of time developing him when there are better alternatives.
Oh I totally agree. I also think that this next step in his career is going to be amazingly humbling for him and his family. Basically you’ll see if he has any fight in him this next stop.
But I think he only gets one shot.
I’m glad we can finally dispense with the nonsense that it was just Bagley’s dad who wanted out. Put simply, Marvin has been bad, and certainly the noise coming from his camp has been that he’s somehow entitled to minutes. In reality, Bagley has little reason to complain any more than Fox, Halliburton or anyone else tied to the franchise against their will. I believe this is a guy who would be happiest playing a lot of minutes and hoisting a lot of shots on the worst team in the NBA. Make it happen.
Also, Bagley absolutely has value as a trade piece. He has been bad. But he’s young, and he has some talent for scoring, which matters in the NBA. He’s got a lot of holes in his game, extremely low BBIQ, probable attitude problem, etc., but it’s not like he’s done absolutely nothing well.
He may be a guy who never fixes his deficiencies (Hi Derrick Williams). I wouldn’t be shocked. But he’s so bad on defense, passing, etc., there’s almost nowhere to go but up. This is not an argument to keep him. But it is an argument that he will return something (late first, low second, young-ish rotation player with moderate upside, etc.)
If there is a GM out there that thinks they can reshape and develop Bagley, why give up anything for him when you could just wait until he hits free agency next summer and you will likely get him for longer and for less.
I highly doubt there are teams lining up to make a trade offer for him.
I don’t think they’re lining up either, but if you have two or three that are willing to take a chance, that’s enough.
The idea of not waiting is that the price won’t be high and you get to kick the tires now on the chance that some of his problem is Kangz related.
He’s a large expiring contract, which holds value here, and for other teams as they fall out of contention. Bagley will be movable, but if nothing of real value is in the offing, may as well just let him expire.
Yeah, most expirings are picked up because a contender thinks a guy can help them in the playoffs. With Bagley, I would guess most teams would rather kick the tires when he goes into free agency.
The exception may be if a team can add Bagley and send back longer term salary, like the Cojo for Wright deal.
That’s pretty much what I was getting at.
If interested you trade for him because if he does develop you own his restrictive rights¦which you can then match any offer. That matters to a non destination franchise. Or sign and trade for minor asset and recoup what you paid for him to begin with
I don’t think anyone thought it was just Marvin’s dad that wanted him out, the problem was everyone was laying his Dad’s social media presence at his feet.
Marvin never helped himself as far as that went. Fair or not, if you’re a public figure and refuse to denounce or even address it, you endorse it.
To me, the whole thing is so trivial in the grand scheme of thing. I’m old enough to remember when LaVar Ball was going to singlehandedly destroy his kid’s careers.
Bagley doesn’t talk about his Dad (as far as I can tell) in public interviews either way. This stuff is given way more weight than it should be.
Thankfully, we won’t have to talk about this in a few months, and we can move on to other dumb stuff the Kings are doing.
And there WILL be dumb stuff.
This.
Hell no, that’s absurd.
can we trade MB2 for LaVar Ball?
Gotta scour the Disappointments Bin for this one
Bagley and 2nds to Chicago for Troy Brown
Bagley for Knox and 2nds
Bagley and 2nds for Tristan Thompson
Bagley, Ramsey and 2nds for Juan Hernangomez and Jake Layman
Bagley, Ramsey and 2nds for Jarret Culver and Jake Layman
With our propensity to not tank, I don’t see us developing Ja’hmius anytime soon.
Bagley liked a “we need to get Bagley out of Sacramento” comment, then later deleted anything relating to Sacramento and moved his account location. Maybe he knows something we don’t.
I was wondering the same. It could be that McNair has promised to move him, but it’s rather childish of him to remove all Kings related info.
I’m actually happy in the sense that this puts McNair’s ass in gear to make a move. I’m certainly hoping this won’t be the only one.
Or maybe Vivek will call up his Silicon Valley buddy Jack Dorsey and tell him to change Marv’s Twitter account back.
This made me actually laugh out loud.
Maybe he’ll ban Bagley?
I definitely understand why it’s time to dump Bagley, but he’s not worth anything. He has zero value. Long-term, the smarter play may be to toss his ass on the bench next year. Make him a reserve energy big, an appropriate role for his limited defensive acumen. As a restricted free agent, few, if any teams will make him a sizeable offer. Force him to sign a measly second contract. At that point, he may have some value. Perhaps he even stays healthy.
This 100%
While understandably the expectations are high for a number 2 pick especially for this franchise, which has lost patience, trying to accelerate his development to build a winner quickly was a mistake, the best approach to him thus season should have just been to have him be that bench big, score and rebound, prove he can at least do something well, earn a minor 2nd contract, then use the offseasons to work on the rest of his game instead of shoving him in the starting 5.
However all that was moot because he couldn’t even stay healthy to do so, so a big part was his fault.
Can you elaborate as to how Bagley’s in-game injuries were his own fault?
Obviously it’s not like he’s banging his hand on the rim or breaking his own foot, but who can I blame but myself for my body not cooperating?
I’d imagine that people born with disabilities or who have had accidents impact their physical health might wonder what the fuck you’re talking about.
Idk what your situation is for connecting a basketball player’s physical injuries to birth disabilities and accidents and to use that kind of language with me for a basketball related comment. So if anything I said triggered anything, I apologize.
On basketball, Is Anthony Davis not getting hate right now and advice to change his offseason routine right now to better his body? Wouldn’t that imply they’re holding him at fault for not keeping his body right?
I’d harken it to Uber athletes like Blake Griffin and D-Rose working on their skills and finesse game to not rely so heavily on their knees and feet to prolong their careers.
Those guys had chronic physical issues, Bagley’s injuries, plentiful though they may be, have been one-offs. Apples and oranges.
From all appearances, it appears his dad is his personal trainer. If that’s actually the case, rather than it being a certified professional who has worked and trained with a catalog of high-level athletes, then yes, I’d say it’s his fault.
You’re suggesting that a better trainer would have taught Bagley how to not jam his thumb and break it while playing at full speed? What would that sort of training look like, and are you aware of anyone offering it?
Good post Les.
Financially, that makes perfect sense. Emotionally, not so much. I’m sure the Kings will find somewhere in the middle to flounder.
What a complete travesty of a bust pick. Watching Trae Young and Luka and all the other stars in these playoffs that were there for the Kings in various drafts¦ it’s so depressing. He’ll leave and also be bad wherever he goes. Good riddance. Anyone notice how Bogi is still the same mediocre inconsistent player in Atlanta? Keep Fox and Hali and Holmes and PURGE.
Purge? This was the best offense they’ve had in a decade. I don’t know if purging would be my first option.
I’m not understanding why folks want to debase Bogi. Bogi was the second best player on the Hawks once McMillian took over and helped that team make the playoffs. His early knee injury aside, he just had the best year of his career. It could also be argued that he had a better year than Buddy.
Bogi is solid with the ability to hit the big shot. He’s never gonna be an all star but you can rely on him when he’s healthy.
In each of Atlanta’s big comebacks, it happened after benching Bogdanovic. They have Huerter, who is younger, taller, more athletic, and actually plays defense. I doubt that these things haven’t been a topic of conversation in Atlanta.
I know that banging on Bogi is a thing for you, but he’s played basically the second most minutes on that roster in the playoffs (same number as Capela and Collins), and has the best NetRating out of any of those four (including Trae).
We’ll see if McMillan continues to prioritize Huerter as a better defensive matchup late against Milwaukee. But at this point, you’re running with anecdote, not data.
Give McMillan credit for making adjustments based on the game.
Very much so. McMillan has been a brilliant leader.
Do box scores count as data?
Anecdotal data. 🙂
Bogi has been terrific with great stats and a key reason for the Hawks great success ! Young, McMillian and GM are all on record saying so ! Sadly, he is hurt now but even detractors may notice he is trying to help !
Bogi should be here and not Buddy. Bottom line.
I’d take a Bogi on a gimpy knee over a Buddy any day.
The attitudes and swagger are different and the versatility on offense is night and day.
Bogi hasn’t earned half of that contract this year, you are looking through some wild glasses
Hawks- Trae, Collins, Capela, Hunter, then Bogi
Right now Huerter is better
So 4th at best-
did not start on Kings. a 4/72 is a lot for a non starter. Hawks went all in with Bogi + Gallo and then the Lou Williams trade – Kings not at all in same position
If Kings had Collins ( not MB3), Capela and others, then keep Bogi for that $
Well I think his next stop will be the story of Marvin Bagley. Someone will take him on under the impression that his development was hindered by a bad organizational culture and bad coaching. So I am curious what comes next.
I still think He’s going to be a player though. What can I say? I’m an optimist.
Definitely still think he can be at least a bench big. Scoring 4 or 5 man off the bench is his floor, anything else right now is a miracle though with his injuries.
Wonder if he throws a fit when his next team makes him come off the bench?
Plot twist:
Tim is actually Bagley’s agent, and wrote this article in a secret attempt to push Bagley out of Sacramento.
Third act plot twist:
Tim, knowing a thing or two about the Phoenix area, is actually a Suns fan in disguise, and is campaigning behind the scenes with Suns management to acquire him.
I just know McNair would have a lots of works to get done after the draft lottery.
Hopefully, he can find a new home for Bagley…it would be the BEST outcome for him, us (the fans), and the team (the team plays better without him)
Other may suggest he can be an energy big coming out of bench, but I would say, energy BIG out coming out of bench to play 15 mins is pretty easy to find and replace…why should we withstand Bagley, he is a cancer to this franchise.
One tries to be realistic and empathetic to a player who has had so many in-game injuries, but this kind of unprofessionalism makes it difficult. If he’s to be traded, send him to the worst organization in the league.
So, I guess he’s here for another year.
It’s social media not an interview. I hardly think this is all that insulting for the franchise. I mean is he even 22 yet? I’m willing to grant the guy some room to vent. His career has been stop start ever since he got to the NBA. He’s frustrated, everyone is frustrated.
I don’t think this means anything.
What other teams have a player and his Daddy asking to be traded?
Over the years I’m fairly certain there has been a few, not including the Balls.
I mean over involved fathers are something of a cliché.
Maybe Zion, if you believe espn reports?
Bagley for Zion. Call it in.
I kid, I kid. I can dream, can’t I?
Trade him. Poor court awareness normally limits a player (in basketball, soccer, rugby or other team sport) to the wing position.
Bagley <– Vlade <– Vivek Ranadumbe
I thought we should’ve traded him last offseason and others said it would be dumb to trade him with how low his trade value was at the time. Now it’ll be even lower. Get rid of the guy. At the rate he’s going, we’ll have to attach a 2nd round pick to get rid of him by next year’s trade deadline.
Also want to give a shout out to Vlade for drafting Bagley. Every other team in the top 5 of the 2018 draft made the playoffs this year, with 2 playing in the conference finals, and Luka carrying the Mavs to two straight playoff berths. It’s looking like a historic top 5 so of course Vlade made a historic and franchise crippling selection with the number 2 pick.
So glad he still gets love and invited back to Sacramento with open arms after his disastrous run. What a completely loser organization from top to bottom.
He’s an expiring. They could just tie him to the end of the bench, and wouldn’t have to give up any picks.
Yep, bring off the bench. He’ll step up this year b/c its a contract year. Trade him at the deadline or let him walk at the end of the year.
The Bagley pick by the Vlade/Vivek FO is 30 for 30 material.
They could show that one photo of Luka, Vlade and Vivek all together after dinner like a week before the draft, and the announcer could be like, “it was basically a done deal, and then …”
Don’t forget, even though Luka is out of the playoffs, he’s the only one of the four named All-NBA First Team this year (and, well, last year).
Come on, he’s not getting traded to a doe-eyed GM who thinks he can save him. He’s getting traded to a smart, likely big market GM who wants to clear 11m for the following year and acquire someone great. Thankfully, Marv at least has that value.
One of the first things that this reminded me of was a discussion from 2017 – “Which of the following young players will be on the next Kings playoff team?: Bogi, WCS, Fox, Hield, Justin Jackson, Skal, Mason, PapaG & Malachi Richardson.” We’re down to two (Fox and Hield). And the wheel goes ’round.
The following lacks a ton of context (for example, other teams passing on these players, players that sort of came out of nowhere, etc.), but here is the list of NBA all-stars that the Kings could have drafted just during the Ranadive era: Giannis, Gobert, LaVine, Jokic, Booker, Sabonis, Siakam, Mitchell, Abedayo, Doncic, Young.
The last Kings draft pick to make an all-star team as a King: DeMarcus Cousins, drafted 2010.
The last Kings draft pick to appear in the playoffs for the Kings: Francisco Garcia, 2006.
Brutal. I could add to the list of players we passed up, but I don’t to further depress the fan base.
the only hope I have right now is seeing what Phx and Atl is doing and hoping a miracle occurs for us. But in reality things are bleak as hell.
The drought will end soon
What’s going to end first: the Kings’ playoff drought, or the West’s actual drought?
Our new reservoir target completion date is 2029. I think they Kings can make a couple playoffs prior, fade away and back to the draft.
I’m honestly to the point where I don’t think the Kings will make the playoffs while Vivek is the owner. I just really don’t see it happening. If you mess up the Doncic pick then it’s actually impossible for you to do anything right.
If Monte wants to take a swing on someone who is currently on a max contract Bagley’s $11M expiring deal is extremely important for salary matching – adding it to either Barnes’ or Buddy’s contract puts the outgoing salary almost exactly equal to an incoming max.
For those wondering how he could possibly be traded, keep in mind that “Marvin Bagley the basketball player” is almost irrelevant compared to “Marvin Bagley the expiring $11M contract”
Bagley: “I hate it here, no one can thrive here, this organization sucks and no one can be good here”
Fox and Haliburton: “Sup.”
Bagley: …………………
Holmes: “Yo”
The relationship, like many of Marvin’s bones over the last few season, is broken
I’d trade him for Mo Bamba right now.
Cisco Garcia approves
Many Kings fans, day-in, day-out: “Man, this team is going to suck FOREVER. Why would anyone want to play here?”
Also many Kings fans, after Marvin Bagley tries to get out of Sacramento: “That spoiled, entitled sonofa…”
He gets paid $11M to be here, the rest of us don’t.
Seems more like our mistake than his
The only thing we have to go on is the noise from his dad, and that’s mostly whining about Bagley not playing fourth quarter minutes he didn’t earn, not about losing games or being a bad organization. Why Bagley is leaving matters.
If Fox demanded a trade at the end of the season because the organization is incompetent and he actually wants a chance to win, I wouldn’t blame him a bit. I have to think that’s part of the reason Bogi explored free agency, and here he is playing the East finals, where he almost certainly never would have seen the playoffs in a Kings uniform.
I wonder if we can trade him into space in Charlotte, maybe for a bad 2nd and a *wink-wink* handshake deal that they leave Holmes alone.
Yes, the worst thing Vivek and Dumars can do is trade him for some mediocre 11m player with a longer deal. If you can’t add Marv to another deal or trade him into space, then just send him home to “rehab” and collect the 11m cap space for next year. I’m genuinely afraid Vivek falls in love with an old, former all-star he can shoot selfies with, though.
Marvin does have one elite skill¦his PER for TKH comments per thread is off the charts. Who else could elicit 200 comments based on liking a tweet?
Take that Luka¦
Imagine the number of comments on a playoff game thread if we would have drafted Luka …
Let Marvin have his one shining moment!!! Besides 300+ now…Go Marv Go!!!
The problem with moving Bagley for anything of value is that the NBA has changed significantly in the last 5 years and he’s shown no ability to do the things required of an NBA roster player, much less a reserve or a starter. He can’t defend, he can’t switch, he can’t close out on shooters, he can’t pass the ball, he can’t set screens and demands the ball all the times.
Bagley is a petulant person who has only sporadically worked hard at improving his game, and after one of these minimal efforts, acts entitled to be one of the top 2 options on the floor. He has lacked the maturity to deal with adversity, and failed to develop the skills required to be an effective NBA player, although I admit that he may just lack the all around talent and skills to play in the league.
I was hopeful that he was finally understanding what he needed to do, but his injury and departure to Phoenix signaled that he remains the immature player with a limited future in the league. Other GMs compare him to incoming draftees, as well as players already in the league, so unless he shows something quickly, he’s not going to be in the league after about a couple of years. They aren’t going to put the time into trying to develop him and hope that something happens when they have alternatives.
Time for another rebuild!
I’d settle for one real rebuild. They haven’t done it yet.
To be frank, I think it’s time to trade Fox as well.
Yep, much as I like him, he doesn’t stretch defenses or play defense, and his value is high. Give Hali the reins, and trade Fox for Simmons.
Give the Kings another season of losing and Fox is gonna want out after next season. If we’re lucky, maybe Fox becomes an asset we can move for one of OKCs 500 1st rounders.
I dunno, he seems to be fine with the way things are progressing.
I think it’s mostly lip service. Good on Fox for being that way though.
He has to be watching these other young dudes in the playoffs and wishing he were getting that same kind of pub. It’ll never happen here. We know it, he knows it.
I’m not sure he does, but we’ll see.
Great. Marvin Bagley wants out. Whoopty fucking doo. Welcome to the off-season, and the abject stupidity of social media.
Im fine with ending the Bagley experiment
He will never be good because his problem is innate
BBIQ isn’t fixable
Especially when combined with stubbornness and a slight touch of megalomania.
Yeah, let’s make a hasty move because he liked a tweet, and listed his hometown as where he lives. I don’t care what Bagley says. The Kings have the leverage here, and should not be in a rush to unload unless it’s a good deal.
And that’s the bottom line, well-put.
There’s only so much deal you’re going to get for Marvin Bagley. I happen to think it’s more than some do, but just get it and move on.
I see it both ways, but I think I lean this direction. Marvin knows he is playing for 40,50,60 million bucks this season. If he came out, played 65+ games and averaged say 18 and 10 with even slightly below average defense (kinda big step), he is getting 10+ a year from someone. Maybe more.
He can’t afford to just pout or threaten to not play if not traded. If he didn’t play, he will get a min deal next year and if he doesn’t produce in that new situation he is then a super fringe NBA player, with no “we can fix him” magic dust on him.
If he has any desire or thoughts about getting a decent contract next year, he will come in and play the best he can and work his ass off this summer. He WANTS to force the Kings hand and make it uncomfortable, because he wants that better situation so he can show out for his next contract. Is this coincidence he did the social media stuff right after the draft order was set and in one month…get the rumors swirling? Feels unlikely.
Are the odds he improves to the above mentioned level say 25-30%. That’s my guess. I don’t think it’s impossible. To me that’s a better hit rate than getting some second round pick or even super late first. At that point you still control his restrictive rights and if things have been mended you might be able to keep him. Or if Kings still want to be done with him maybe sign and trade and get basically what you would get right now anyway.
Last I checked barring some crazy move, I don’t think most of us are projecting playoffs next year in that Western Conference. So he wouldn’t be costing the Kings playoff seeding if he sucked for say first 30-40 games. If he goes half the season and sucks, you sit him out, run other guys and get nothing for him in the end. I don’t think the lost marginal asset (being discussed on this board) is that significant.
Now if someone is giving a sub 20 pick this year or semi interesting young player, then I’d be more willing to listen.
Send him and another 2nd to the Rockets for either the 23rd or 24th this year. Maybe Silas can getting out of him and we get another dart at the board.
McNair fails as a GM again. He should have been ahead of this, communicating to Marvin so as to help retain his value. It would have also helped Marvin as well. A lose-lose for both parties; a good GM creates win-wins.
This is a patently stupid take.
If a young player has more value with 1.5 years of team control than 1 year of team control and you are going to trade them anyway, but you fail to do it earlier, then at minimum it’s not good.
We don’t know what McNair eventually gets for Bagley, so calling it a failure is a bit of a reach, but again, it’s not good to hold a guy who is going to force your hand and potentially lower his value.
There’s no hand to be forced. Marv is worth less than the 11m cap space he represents next year. If you don’t get a good deal, just send him home. Anyway, this is all likely Marv pouting because Monte turned down some shitty deal Marv’s agent came up with. Dig in, Monte.
I don’t disagree with the pouting, but not trading a malcontent just to spite them is not doing the rest of your team any favors. The guy has some value, so move him.
True. Not talking about spite. But if Marv wants to undermine team chemistry, that’s on him. He can just stay home, and the team can get some much needed cap space. If he truly has other value, something will materialize. I’d guess Monte has given his agent the green light to find something, but it’s all been crap.
Very likely. Bagley is redirecting his displeasure towards the Kings when it should be directed towards himself and his agent.
The thing is, Bagley staying home doesn’t free any cap space for the Kings.
He’s an expiring, so not until next year, no. But, at least so far, nobody seems to be lining up to give the Kings that space this year. And his value as a player is likely lower now than it was when he couldn’t fetch Bey, right? Team isn’t going anywhere with Luke and this roster this year anyway. If the deals for Marv only involve other crappy contracts, I say just wait and enjoy the 11m next year.
Go on a diet then get back to me,chubby.
OK, THIS is a terrible take.
Your opinion, so what?
I teach Junior high and even those kids think this is a lame and uncool comeback.
I don’t judge cool by the standards of adolescents. Clearly you do. Thanks for the clarity.
Yeah doesn’t seem like any type of judgement is your strong suit.
The point was maybe you should go by their standards because they aren’t as douchey as you. A relatively low bar to clear, but you smacked your face right against it anyway.
What is this nonsense? We got a 12 year old in here commenting now?
But there really wasn’t much value for a long time.
you want cool ranch or nacho cheese flavor?
This guy needs to go simply so the fan base can begin to heal, if there is anything left to heal. Bagley is bad at basketball and always injured. He’s not perfect, he’s not a bad dude either. I work downtown, I see a lot of Kings, he was genuinely excited to play in Sacramento.
Always told myself the Kings aren’t the worst franchise in sports, bad but not the worst. Been a debate in my head since the 90s’. This franchise currently owns the title. Could argue a few hockey teams in Canada hardly anyone can name or a football team in Washington but … after that draft it’s hard to argue they aren’t. Historically great draft and they picked the zero no one else would have.
Was an F grade drafting him. An infinity amount of Fs for not even trading back to draft him later. Fans hated the pick. I can’t think of a worse premium draft pick ever. Can think of examples like Thabeet but people literally mocked Thabeet to be a high pick, was never the case with Bagely, no one seriously suggested he should have been picked at #2.
His basketball worth, maybe a free drink after buying a meal at the BBQ place next to arena. He might need a job there in three years. His contract has worth. I’m sure they will trade it away for a few cheap party favors, another Kings M.O.
Do use a favor this time and get creative with your failures. Here’s an idea, trade for Cash Considerations again (my favorite Kings player the last 2 decades) but this time flip him to buy out Walton’s contract. Hold a big conference explaining how you pawned a bust draft pick’s contract to payoff a miserable coaching hire cause you didn’t want to pay it yourself. It will be embarrassing and mocked, zero return on talent and no coach, but at least it’s finally owning up to the mistakes and not doing awful job attempting to hide them. I know, I know … press conference are generally for showing fans your middle finger after a mistake but who knows, maybe this new approach might lead to better basketball results. At this pace 6 teams who don’t exist in the NBA (maybe one located in Mars) will have a relevant basketball teams before the Kings.
If you’re so broken as a Kings fan that you’d be unable to recover unless Marvin Bagley is off the roster, I’m reading that as your being too broken for pretty much everything.
I’m not broken, its a acknowledgment they are broken. What they never do is resolve their problems because it would admitting a mistake. Instead they will do what they have been doing. They will cling to Bagley and Walton, until it forces them into their next long term mistake … at that point Bagely and Walton will be shown the door.
Hurry the fuck up, Vlonty McDivac.
Let him rot at the end of the bench. He wants to kill his trade value? Cool! Let’s kill his market value while we’re at it. He’ll be lucky to get the minimum in free agency!
I don’t like to be petty but Marvin and his family are so annoying and immature that they deserve some of their own medicine
It looks like he also removed Hip Hop Artist, so there’s that.
Bags get your ass outta here.
SacTown 4Life
Don’t dump players for nothing. That’s the lesson the Kings haven’t learned in 20 years
I usually wish former Kings the best after they leave. But he’s going into the Spencer Hawes category for me. Good riddance and may your ass be sore from the amount of pine you’ll be riding in Shanghai and out of the NBA
Off topic: Anyone encountered the same problem with me ? i.e. cannot view all the comments in 2nd/3rd pages ?
(e.g. I could see there are 318 comments in this article, but once I goes to page 2, the number of comment dropped back to about 178 comments, I just cannot view other remaining comments even I have logged up…………)
Can somebody helps to fix this issue ?
Thanks
Same issue here. Thought the thread blew up, it’s almost the same. Think the comment count on the main page is inaccurate
At least someone else encountered the same issue..
But even I posted that message above…I still could not find it until now.
Maybe Greg ruined our messages….
Anyway, thanks for fixing, TKH………..
The time to trade Bags was before his rookie summer league and no one knew how many deficiencies Bags had. Soooo much wrong/to work on.
Bench big then, bench big now and most likely always. As I’ve been yellingget rid of him, even for nothing. He’s NEVER going to blossom.
He’s not Sam Bowie…but he’s Sam Bowie…
I can’t wait for when we trade the rights to swap draft pics to dump Bagley.
Is there an actual Clippers blog that is in use?
Yes I believe it’s 213 Hoops or something like that.
They got nothing out of him and they’ll get nothing for him.
No worse than passing on Curry or Dame or Klay. He is the Tony Mandarich of his class which makes it look worse.
kangzlife: please take it seriously, but not personally
It is worse. They went against consensus in the case of Bagley. People thought T-Rob was a steal at 5 and he turned out to be a falling knife. Hard to argue with not getting a guy that was an 11th pick in Klay and picking a guy whose college game resembled Curry a couple years after Curry turned out to be a steal. And Tyreke was ROY and went 20-5-5. Bagley was a #2 pick for a team that can’t afford to waste a #2 pick. It was a STRONG draft and they picked the dud who had OBVIOUS flaws. In the case of Jimmer, Tyreke, and T-Rob, there weren’t a lot of people scratching their heads and thinking it was an obvious failed opportunity. The 2018 draft had a clear top 2 with Doncic and Ayton and Vlade outsmarted himself.
I have NO emotional investment in Marvin. I wrote him off as a player with any future in SAC 6-8 weeks before the season ended while others were inanely entertaining the idea of giving him one more season.
And this “news” is non-news. What Marvin wants is irrelevant. What is relevant is what is in the best interest of the team. Although he is undermining his objectives by making the job of the GM more difficult.
It would be one thing if the Kings had communicated they have NO intention of trading him regardless of his discontent. But that is not the case. We wanted him gone for Sediq Bey and DET said “no thank you”!
So Marvin expressing his desire to be moved is consistent with our desire to move him, so he should shut his mouth and log off social media and let it play out instead of acting immature and impetuous. He will get his wish as soon as we can grant it to him. In fact, I suspect we want to be rid of him more than he wants to be rid of us.
And my assessment has nothing to do with the extracircular activity, Pops, or his social media posts. He is simply not good and he is in the way of what we are trying to achieve.
Just like Bogi would have gotten in the way of Ty fluorishing, Bagley will get in the way of Metu and the players McGenius brings in soon. The player I am becoming increasingly convinced that should be is Isiah Jackson, a unicorn type player.
With the 9th pick in the NBA draft, the Sacramento Kings select…..Unicorn Jackson!
Marvin has a bruised ego because he sees the success DeAndre Ayton is having with the Suns, two wins away from the NBA finals. In his mind he is equal to or better than Ayton. In other words he is delusional.
It is easier to shift the blame to look within. And before you can go from a negative to a positive force, you have to become a “neutral force”. If you are taking quick shots, settling for 3s because you cannot hold your post position or beat your man off the bounce, and you make slow reads, and cannot hold positive defensively, obviously you are a negative force.
By contrast before Ayton started to progress nicely, and was deemed a disappointment by many Suns fans, Ayton was a neutral force on the floor. He was not living up to his #1 pick status, but he was not a glaring drag on the collective effort.
Ayton was NOT taking bad shots. In fact, he was not shooting enough. And on defense he was serviceable. With superior size he would hold his ground and mix it up. You cannot even say that about Marvin. He does not fight enough defensively, his awareneess and reaction time is poor, and he has a quick trigger.
When he was healthy enough to play, Marvin was more often a negative force while Ayton was at least a neutral force. At one point Ayton and Marvin appeared to be on similar career arcs, forever in the shadow of Luka, but Ayton became average first while Marvin never even rose to this level.
I challenged Marvin to have 3 good games consecutively (after he had one vs IND), and he could not even put back-to-back good games together!
What is the likelihood Marvin becomes a positive force when he has not yet achieved neutral (i.e. average) status for any length of time? I don’t know, 10-20%, let another team make that (suckers) bet.
In 2018, his one college season, Marvin had a block rate of 2.6% and steal rate 1.4%. In his last season at Wake Forest, John Collins (ATL) had a block rate of 6.6% and steal rate of 1.3%.
The DPOY Gobert had a block rate this season of 7.0% (career 6.2%). In his one season at Kentucky, Unicorn Jackson, and future Sacramento King, had a block rate of 12.7% and steal rate of 2.1%.
Jackson had 2X the block rate of Collins, an outstanding emerging player for ATL, 4X the block rate of Marvin, and more steals than both players. And 2X the block rate the best shot blocker in the NBA.
What makes Jackson “a unicorn”? Because he does not project as a center. He can lead the NBA in shot blocks as a non-center, and defend on the perimeter (vs PF and SF), which makes him better than Kai Jones, along with more decisive and effecient offensive moves.
Jackson is an equal to better prospect than Collins, similar in that they are relatively light for a PF position while providing a lot of defensive versatiltiy and spot scoring.
Jackson has not shot the long ball like Colliins, but that was not his role for Kentucky, his shot looks pretty good in terms of mechanics.
So if Jackson is our pick, which I currently place at around 50-60% odds (maybe higher), there is NO place for Marvin. ALL the minutes are going to Metu and Jackson. And it is not even personal against Marvin, and it is not in deference to his preference to be traded, it is based on an objective assessment of his play, and cleaning up the mess that Vlade made.
There is no reason to make it personal or adhere to delusional prognosis for a flawed player, physically and mentally. Regardless it is true Marvin needs a fresh start, but that is not going to be a panacea. He may carve out a back-up role somewhere but he will never be a star. Out with old, in with new (and improved)! Future Sacramento King (star):
The guy is also a POS who I will actively root against
The fact is he is a bust, and his lack of BBIQ will always preclude him from being a solid player
But instead of being apologetic for not living up to expectations, he blames Sacramento and the Kings for a reason why he isn’t part of the great 2018 draft class
Pure POS
Badge Legend