The Kings started their four-game road trip with their easiest matchup that they will see in weeks. The Utah Jazz entered in full tank mode: last in the Western Conference, just 14 wins on their card, and sitting three of their best players in tonight’s game. After a slow start that resulted in a tie of 22 points after the first quarter, the Kings ultimately took care of business down the stretch. It took them about 40 minutes to do it, which left a lot of room for some bizarre and bad basketball, but the Kings lit the beam for their 30th win of the season.
Quick Stats
Sacramento Kings: 52.9% fg, 41.7% 3pt 91.7% ft, 29 ast, 47 reb, 16 to
Utah Jazz: 45.2% fg, 36.4% 3 pt, 52.9% ft, 32 ast, 34 reb, 10 to
The Good, The Bittersweet, The Bad, & The Ugly
The Good:
- Shooting: The Kings had an efficient shooting night, converting well from both the 3-point line (15-36) and the free throw line (11-12). Keegan Murray led with five made 3s, with Zach LaVine close behind with four of his own. Both shot 50% from deep, often hitting one to stop a Jazz run.
- Jonas Valanciunas: Off the bench, Jonas Valanciunas thoroughly enjoyed his matchup against a young Kyle Filipowski. It almost felt wrong to enjoy watching Valanciunas bully Filipowski as much as I did. It was like rooting for the big bully to keep shoving that little freshmen back into his locker again and again. With Domantas Sabonis having a rare off night, Valanciunas made sure to use every ounce of his 20 pound advantage during his minutes on the floor. On the boards, in the paint, and on both sides of the ball, he was dominant. Valanciunas finished with 15 points and seven rebounds in an efficient 6-7 from the field.
The Bittersweet:
- Individual Scoring: This special added section felt fitting for this one. I want to preface by saying that I never want to take for granted the scoring abilities of anyone on this team. Tonight, Zach LaVine (22 points) and DeMar DeRozan (19 points) showed why they are masters of their craft and are able to do what few people walking this planet can – get a bucket whenever they feel like it. As a fan, it is easy to love having one, let alone two, guys who can put your team on their back and score when it’s needed most. And I do love having that luxury. I just can’t help but recognize the subtle bitterness in the aftertaste of this style of basketball. With memories of ball movement, few dribbles, and multiple hands on the ball in a possession, this new style of basketball in Sacramento is going to take some getting used to for me.
The Bad:
- Blue Moon for Domas: What is rarer than a blue moon? That’s what tonight was for Domantas Sabonis. Finishing one rebound shy of his signature double double, Sabonis found himself in a bizarre rut for most of the game. While Sabonis ended with 12 points and nine rebounds, Walker Kessler outperformed him tonight, finishing with 25 points and 14 rebounds. In a word, it was… weird. Sabonis’ night started off with a turnover on the very first possession, missed layup in transition, and a careless turnover after a defensive rebound on the other end. It was all very anti-Domas and hopefully a blue moon we won’t see again anytime soon.
The Ugly:
- Forgetting the Fundamentals: The Jazz converted on just 16 of their 44 3-point attempts tonight and thank the basketball gods that’s all they were able to connect on. Of those 44 attempts, it felt like 45 of them were wide open. Yes, it defies all logic and mathematics how open they were. In too many instances to count, the Kings lost track of their man while helping in the paint. On the recovery, instead of a fundamental close out and box out, the Kings did a running fly by that allowed the shooter a runway to any missed shots. It was frustrating to watch, relieving to see so many missed open shots by Utah, and frightening to think what better teams are going to do against this kind of defense in the weeks to come.
The King of Kings
Keegan Murray has some feelings about Utah. With memories of his 47-point career-high against the Jazz, Murray was the most consistent player in a Sacramento jersey tonight, scoring a season-high of 26 points on 9-16 from the field. When things were getting sloppy out there, Keegan brought things back under control by playing within himself and finding efficient ways to contribute.
Up Next
Saturday, March 1st @ Houston Rockets – 5:00 P.M. (PT)
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Keegan (-Michael Key)!Dance!
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With Jazz Hands! Kings Win!
Ugly win deserves an ugly dance
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Oh, and it’s also a “sweep dance”!
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The Jazz are tanking. The Kings are 0.500 team. The Kings should beat the Jazz by twenty and they did. This is progress. This not something that is normal for the Kings. I like hearing an actual game plan and intentional style of play from Christie. Going through Sabonis is smart and it is working. On an off night Sabonis can still lead on the floor with this roster. Even scoring spread and Keegan getting some mojo back. I like what I am seeing.
More progress is this team playing the same basic game plan against the next opponent. This team needs to have an identity and a style of play. Houston is not the Jazz but the Kings at a minimum need to play their game against Houston instead of forgetting their identity every few games.
Nothing about tonight looked or felt much like progress to me. If they had played Houston tonight, they lose by 20.
If they come out, play well, and beat Houston on Saturday, that would show some progress.
I want the team to show they can build a sustainable winning culture. If they do that over the next month, I’ll be impressed and would change my opinion about the potential of this group.
This team should lose against Houston just as it should beat the Jazz by 20. Beating Houston and losing the Jazz is the stupidity of the last decade.
Haha well you’ve got me there though this year they’ve generally beaten the they were supposed to. My larger point is that they aren’t making the playoffs unless they beat teams like Houston because that’s all they’re playing in the month of March.
This team making the playoffs is stupid.
Not sure why I needed to be called stupid but ok.
Who called you stupid?
My bad I misread your comment.
All good.
The pre-break Kings beat the Rockets twice earlier this season, and the Rockets lost to the Jazz just a few days ago. Do we dare have any hope?
So it can be done?!
If we beat them playing good basketball I like it even more.
We are 2-0 against them so it’s certainly possible! My point is, beat the Rockets and I’ll be impressed. I’m just deeply concerned about the style of play.
Sort of. But you are also pointing out the fundamental problem.
The first year our FO took over, the Rockets were 17-55 and had a 31 year old James Harden, last legs John Wall, 20 games of last legs Oladipo, Kevin Porter Jr. and Christian Wood.
A couple of years later when we had the beam team, the Rockets had started rebuilding, but were 22-60 with Jalen Green, 2nd year Alperen Sengun, and Jabari Smith Jr., Tari Eason, and Ty Washington as rookies.
Now, you are saying we SHOULD lose to the Rockets by 20. We were supposed to be building up and getting better. Our core is older, more expensive, and we have fewer future first round picks; but somehow we are a .500 team and they are a .627 team and it’s considered a reasonable outcome that we lose to them by 20 despite us being fully healthy?
This is pretty unacceptable and shows a bit of the strategic issues and lack of direction that is concerning to a number of the fans here.
Our fundamental problem is definitely real and very present. I understand the past and the “Beam Team”. I understand this team long before the “Before Team”. In the present we need a foundation. We need progress moving out of the fundamental problems.
In the last few games I am looking for that foundation that has escaped this organization for decades. A losing, I will even say a FAILED organization, is unacceptable.
Progress out of failure is good. I am looking for and have seen some signs of progress out of that failure.
The current roster in February of 2025 is what we have and is what we can see and watch for signs of progress or failure. So far I am seeing some progress and some signs of progress towards a complete roster.
Wild to think how many seasons this has been a relevant take.
It really is. I think 2022/23 was the only season I thought they had a chance to build something sustainable since Vivek has taken over. Which is crazy! That’s like the baseline of competency!
Sabonis was tied for lowest attempts by all Kings starters and he shot 29%.
They won the game. That is the overall result.
The plan has been to go through Sabonis. That is a good idea because it creates open shots for others and he is a high IQ player. Sabonis is basically the point guard many times. He knows the game and can lead a team.
I’ll endure it, but I won’t get used to it.
Winning is horrible. Beating a team you should beat is even worse. Playing a rough game without real cohesiveness or flow and still winning is the worst.
NCKF to the Kings: Look, we will stay married and raise the kids until they’re out of the house, but I will not respect you, and I’ll make sure the kids don’t either.
Hate is and always will be the status quo. Please don’t ever expect anything better.
The Kings are 3-1 in their last 4 games…against competition that is currently a combined 43-130.
These games were must-haves so it was nice to get at least three wins but the team does not look very good right now and will need to play much better going forward if they really plan to sneak into the back-end of the playoffs/play-in.
I don’t think this team has a chance at getting out of the play in. They are at least doing what they should be doing in terms of beating the bad teams. Lets see if they compete and play a consistent style of play with intentionality.
It’s entirely possible as SAC (30-28) are only 2 games behind LAC (32-26) for the 6th spot.
I think its strange that I do not like this roster (my issues are mostly with LaVine and DDR, but also with Monk being the long term starting PG) but I recognize that they have a chance to take the 6th spot. I think the ceiling for this team is a 1st round series win at best, if they get a decent matchup.
While you on the other hand seem to like this roster and the direction they’re going but you don’t think they have a shot at the playoffs; I don’t get it.
If this is the roster they have for the next few years and if the idea of this squad making the playoffs outright is stupid (as you said below), then what are you so positive about?
This is not a roster that wins playoff series. This is a roster that we have. This team is actually better now than it was three weeks ago. That is not saying much. We have a back up center that could start on many teams. We have a power forward in Laravia that plays aggressive defense and will score.
This team is showing progress. This roster is more balanced than it has been in years. We now have the ability to be consistent and determine a style of play that fits the NBA. We have flexibility to pick up a point guard. Fultz might be decent in the interim.
Let’s hope LaRavia “will score” more than the 3 pts he’s scored in his last five games.
He has done it through his career. The guy has a three point shot.
He seems to have left that three point shot in Memphis. He’s now down to .182 on 1.6 attempts per game as a King. His last few attempts were way off. Maybe he needs a few longer stretches on the floor to get his rhythm?
Five games does not define his career. Pick a player and look only at their last few attempts and the all of the basketball hall of fame changes.
Career defining? No, he was a much better contributor on offense in Memphis than he has been here. That player needs to find his way here, or perhaps our coaching staff needs to put him in better position to contribute. They didn’t seem able to help Huerter find his way back, so I’ll wait to see some positive signs.
You said it yourself. Five games in. He is not the focus of the offense or the defense. He plays hard and will give us some good opportunities to score. We can like the guy. It is ok. His last few attempts don’t define him.
Your poems are cool. That last letter though….you should have typed it with your pinky. It was rough looking.
Glad to hear again that you like my poems though I’m not sure why you’re bringing them up here.
Overall good but that last letter….does it define the entire poem?
Prior to Monday, LaVine left his 3-point shot in Chicago. Missing it for 3 weeks isn’t Huerter level. He left his 3-point shot in the 2022-2023 season.
nah, I love his +20 box score nights because he does dirty work. That will ensure we can resign him
He makes an impact. Like Keon.
Wild that 5 of our last 6 games have come against teams with 14 wins or fewer!
Suffice it to say, we haven’t learned a lot. Happy the team got some time to gel, but the next month will be a critical litmus test.
They took care of business, so I guess that’s a positive.
But you’re up by about 17-20 points and you keep playing your starters until the final horn?
All starters played over 30 minutes, Lavine 37, Monk 35 and Sabonis 34. Why?
To me, maybe just to get some extra time playing together on the floor that you can’t replicate in practice against another team. This team was basically rebuilt a couple weeks ago and it’s looked like it
Ok, that makes some sense, I guess.
At least they don’t play again until Saturday, so they get two days off.
Experimenting with plays with a big lead in an actual game i guess. That horns set with Domas, DDR, and Lavine, that ended with a Lavine cut and an overhead pass fron Domas was sweet. Or the left-side screen for a DDR drive and kick to an open Keon for an open three. Then the Monk and Domas pick and roll that ended up with a Monk pass to Keon at the top of the key for a 3 (similar to the Luka no-look pass to Reaves). Hope they can replicate this at HOU.
Allright, allright, you guys convinced me.
Because the Jazz kept making little runs to cut in to the lead throughout the game.
Keon off the bench with the catch and shoot threes held it together.
I was a bit surprised about playing the starters into the 4th quarter until I thought about how much time off they’ve had the last couple weeks. They had the all-star break, two days between the Dubs game and the Hornets game, and now will have two days before the Rockets game. That’s not a heavy workload.
Much better than desperately needing the entire 48 minutes.
The next 14 games will reveal everything we need to know. I’m expecting 4-10 at best. Maybe they’ll surprise me? I’m leaning not.
They’ll probably get walloped by the Cavs twice and Thunder (who wouldn’t?) but the rest of the schedule looks pretty reasonable. I’d expect something within a game of a .500 finish and a play-in berth that probably turns into an 8 seed and a getting swept unless SGA’s leg falls off.
Nove win!
Beat the team we are supposed to beat, so i will call that a good win. There was a semblance of plays being run on offense, so i am happy with that. It is not the kind of basketball we romantacize about, but we will have to forge a stomach of steel to prevent any peptic ulcer from forming LOL.
On defense though? Every time a Jazz player took an open 3, I’d wince because it could start a rain of 3s. It is weird feeling how other fanbases felt when we were bricking 3 after 3 early in the season. There were so many instances where there were 2 Kings players stuck on a Jazz player who would swing it to an open player for a 3 (Laravia often got caught in this) or they over rotate and poor Keegan had to sprint from the top of the key to close out on a corner 3. Baffling.
But the 6 and the 8 year old kids loved yelling Keeeggaannn….Murray tonight and they didn’t give any shit about Horn sets or close outs. The children were happy and that’s what matters most.
Kfan, i am still waiting for the K-pop dance gifs to make a resurgence.
This old fart’s day is complete! Keep em coming in future dance threads sir!
The Kings are playing very ugly basketball right now. There´s way too little movement and passing and way too much dribbling and 1 on 1 for my taste. Win or not, this sucks to watch.
I guess I should have read the article before posting
Mirann Tsumura is an absolute gem.
The only thing enjoyable was Keegs 2-way plays. The TOs are from the rest are still fking horrible to watch.
Think it was 9 Tos in the first quarter? Ended with 12 so at least they cleaned that up a bit.
Maybe that was 1st half
They won the game. Did you see that?
We cannot accept in victory what we would not accept in defeat
Was that Winston Churchill or Mike Brown? Come to think of it, I never have seen the two of them together…
Mike Brown definitely got victory in defeat. He is getting PAID!
If winning is not the goal what is the goal?
It’s the thing with the net at the end of the field.
Imagine being so happy about a win that you have to spam every comment that doesn’t express pure happiness.
I am talking about basketball not soccer so we differ there.
For every comment I make that is positive there are many negative replies to that positive comment. Consider your statement from that perspective.
Winning more. Which is why it’s a good idea to evaluate even in victory and continuously look for improvement. /TEDtalk
Winning being the goal and winning more is solid. So a win that adds to the total number of wins is successful progress towards the goal of winning more.
So what’s your problem with evaluating and discussing areas that need improvement?
No problem with evaluating and discussing areas that need improvement. I welcome it actually. We should also see the improvement in order to measure it and acknowledge it as progress to continue to build on it.
This team is winning games it should win. That is better than this team was doing. This team has a better bench and filled some much needed roles. That improvement needs to be considered to not accept regression.
So you’re just trolling. Got it.
I take you don’t like my response to your question. Oh well.
2024-25 W/L% 0.517
2023-24 W/L% 0.561
2022-23 W/L% 0.585
lol Um, what?
Is this too “distant past” for you?
You aren’t here to have a real discussion. You are here to cherry pick small sample sizes to spam everyone who isn’t thrilled after one win against a 14 win team.
Those records suck. Consistently beating weak teams is a needed improvement. That is a good thing and a major improvement for this team.
In the three years you referenced I would guess they would have won ten more games each year if they consistently beat weak teams. This team has had a problem of playing down to the competition for many years. The majority of the last two decades actually. Winning teams beat bad teams.
That’s not what you are arguing.
You are arguing that we are all failing to see and/or acknowledge the “progress” of the team, according to you as evidenced by last night’s win.
Do you want me to show you the changes in Off/Def ratings and such for the past couple of years? And more specifically since the trade deadline? I’ll give you the cliff notes: it ain’t progress.
Given your evidence of this “progress” is that they beat Utah and Charlotte in the last couple of games, you aren’t likely convincing anyone in here.
Even by said small sample size and limited data set criteria, how do explain losing to the Pelicans, Blazers and Magic all within the last nine games? Is that part of the progress too since “Winning teams beat bad teams”?
You should read my comments. I have consistently said that the last game was progress. Progress from the games we lost, you listed those games in detail for me.
We played with a clear game plan. We intentionally followed that game plan. Our roster is more balanced and our bench was a plus in the game. We beat a bad team instead of losing to the bad teams you mentioned.
Progress is being better than we were in those games.
JV is dominant!
I love seeing this team have him as an option to go to. He can relieve Sabonis and he can build on a lead or shut down a run. Great player to have and far better than our entire bench was a month ago.
That game was like watching tee-ball baseball. Plays were made and runs were scored, but in the end it was just silly. I turned it off at halftime.
The Jazz should send out thank you cards to Vivtina for keeping their tank right where they want it.
Hate watching is something I have never imagined.
Welcome.
I have not hate watched anything. No need to welcome me. All the negativity is not worth it in life. If I hate it or don’t like it I choose something that is positive. We can choose to move on.
Oops I hit return too soon.
I meant to type, “Welcome troll.”
Good morning! Hope you find something good in your day!
Assuming the Kings stumble into just enough wins to lose the 1st round pick – who at pick 38 is anyone excited about?
JT Toppin, Bogo Markovic, Michael Ruzic
I’m prepping myself for the 38th pick being used to move a contract(DeMar?) or our old friend cash considerations.
I was under the impression that Sacramento has no picks in this season’s NBA Draft, should the Kevin Huerter Top 12 protected pick convey to Atlanta. I am also of the belief that Chicago and Sac have exchanged second round picks for 2025.
The first round pick of Charlotte is Top 14 protected and if not conveyed (it won’t be, the Kings have a better chance of being the Western Conference champ this season) it is changed to Charlotte’s second round picks in both 2026 and 2027.
They have the Bulls 2025 second rounder that come over in the Fox trade.
It’s a bit hard to follow, but the Kings traded their own 2nd round to the Bulls as part of the DDT S&T, but then got the Bulls 2nd rounder from San Antonio in the LaVine deal.
Yes – the other round about:
IF Sacramento does not convey the Red Velvet FRP this season, nor next season (Top 10 protected, Oy Vey!) then Atlanta receives Sacramento’s 2026 and 2027 second round picks.
As mentioned above – Sacramento will have the second round picks of Charlotte in 2026 and 2027.
The expected:
2025: Sacramento FRP to Atlanta (Top 12 protected), Chicago 2nd round pick
2026: Sacramento keeps FRP, has 2 second round picks: Hornets, Kings
2027: Sacramento has 2 FRP: Sacramento, San Antonio, 2 Second rounders: Charlotte, Sacramento
2028: Sacramento has own FRP, 2RP
2029: Sacramento has own FRP, Second rounder goes to Washington
2030: Sacramento has own FRP, Second rounder goes to Indiana
2031: Sacramento has 2 FRP: Minnesota’s pick and a pick swap owned by San Antonio. No second pick – it is going to San Antonio
That’s what my research has currently. (I am trying really hard not to ask you how many of those picks will be for Kyle Kuzma and Bradley Beal – because Kangz).
can cash considerations play SF?
Not a big chance that Danny Wolf makes it to the second round, I guess?
I would happily take Wolf, Goldin, or Tschetter for the Kings. After a quick review it looks like Wolf isn’t projected til 27th, which is absolutely wild to me.
Sweep!
All road wins are good wins, but dang that 1st quarter and first half the 3rd quarter were putrid. Gotta clean that stuff up against better teams.
Thing we should have seen both Baltics Bros in together when Kessler was giving Domas troubles.
Jonasaurus is a beast. More minutes please.
That Keegan block, rebound, push up and pass to Domas was very nice.
Good game for LaVine. Liked the 8 boards and he seemed to be more focused on D.
Big test Saturday. Need to win that one.
What is the common denominator to the beginning of the 1st and 3rd….Our coaching staff can’t figure it out??
Just for fun, I’m looking at lineups data since Zach got here:
Starters: DDR-Monk-Zach-Keegan-Domas – Net Rtg: -7.9 – 157 Mins
Swap in Ellis for Zach – Net Rtg: -2.8 – 34 Mins
Swap in Ellis for DDR – Net Rtg: +27.3 – 15 Mins
Swap in Ellis for Monk – Net Rtg: +17.5 – 49 Mins
Swap in Ellis for Murray – Net Rtg: -22.2 – 10 Mins
Exactly, it’s super obvious keon should be in for either monk or demar from analytics or the eye test. Hamlet said it perfectly, all our HC are just vivek yes men
This is great. Seems to support the general thought that two defenders is helpful. Swapping defender for defender? Not so helpful. Looks like Zach isn’t a turnstile, so that’s nice.
Some thoughts from this game:
This post-Fox team is not enjoyable to watch. It was fun watching Zach go off for a bit, and I always like it when Keegan is balling. But the spark of the original Beam Team is gone.
We really need a point guard. Malik is trying hard, but he needs a point guard so he gets his mojo back too.
Zach Lavine is not the problem. DeRozan is the problem. The team dies on offense when he catches the ball.
The Domas slump is because we’ve stopped using him properly. more DHO action with Monk, post ups with a deep seal and the occasional top of the circle 3… Saw very little of that in this game. His assist numbers seem to be way down this year too – again, thanks to DeRozan.
Jonas might be my new favourite King.
It’s nice to string together some wins, but we beat the Hornets and the Jazz. We are supposed to beat the Hornets and the Jazz.
I thought the Mo-Ke,-Za-Ke-Do lineup worked pretty well.
I’d like to see that be our base lineup going into next year with hopefully moving Monk to 6th man for a better point guard and a solid 3-D PF off the bench.
It actually seems to me like there have been more DHOs since the roster moves.
I’ve had a man-crush on Jonas for a couple of years now. Did you know he fought a bear hand-to-hand? He put part of its pelt on his chin.
He is a true beast with a name I cannot spell. Probably the best pick up for this team in recent history.
The Kings are now 8-1 in the Christie era when Keon get 30+ minutes. It ain’t rocket surgery, Doug.
It ain’t Brain Science either.
I’m not the sharpest knife in the crayon box, but when you’re right, you’re right!
I guess Adam is saying that DC continues to forget that Keon is his ace up his pants?
I may not be the brightest bulb in the deck but I don’t what to know what’s up Adam’s pants or is he just happy to see me?
That’s what’s so frustrating. There’s a path to this team being competitive but it requires telling one of your highly paid shooting guards that they’re going to come off the bench and Doug seems totally unwilling to do that.
I’m not sure he has the choice.
Which highly paid shooting guard do you think should come off the bench and who should replace them in the starting line up?
Highly paid should not factor into it. Unfortunately, it does.
This is the unfortunate byproduct of square pegs in round holes. You have a 6th man starting at point guard. You have a shooting guard at small forward and a small forward at power forward. You traded a point guard for yet another 2 guard, the only position in which you had true depth before the trade merry-go-round started up.
The starting guard rotation should be Fox and Ellis, with Monk being your super 6th man capable of playing alongside either Fox or Ellis. But that ship has sailed.
Your Sacramento Kings: Pounding square pegs into round holes since 2006.
The starting guard rotation should be keon/lavine with monk being the super 6th off the bench.
Fixed that for ya
–Monte McNair
This is your way of seeing things. Monk is the starter not the sixth man. Has been for a while now. Keegan is definitely forced into the wrong spot at the four. We have plenty of threes or twos so I don’t see that being an issue. Lavine and Derozan can easily be a three or a two. The point guard we traded is now playing as the starting shooting guard. He was probably not ever a true point guard and is going to be good at the two spot. So we traded a two that was playing the one. We never had a true one and only have Fultz now.
Starting Ellis is only an emotional issue for many. He played thirty plus minutes so that is the same as starting. The lack of a point guard is likely going to take minutes from Ellis. Ellis should play thirty plus minutes when he is shooting well.
Fox is gone. He chose his home and it is not here.
Pounding square pegs into round holes since 1970 something except for about six or seven years total. If you are going to live in the past go all in.
Jason Thompson was a starter for a long time, too. So saying that Monk is a starter because he’s the starter is…something. I don’t see Monk as even a top 15 PG in the league, but he is a top 6th man. He is a wasted asset as a starter, but absent of a better alternative, he is the default starter (default of the front office, hi-yooo!)
Ellis is averaging 22 mpg for the season, with a pair of DNPs (non-injury). Since the Fox injury he has averaged a little under 27 mpg. If you want to back out the game that LaVine was not here and the game that Ellis left injured, the average is 28 mpg. The team has been much better with him on the floor than off. It seems to me that more minutes on the floor would benefit the team
Intimating that Fox is the reason that Fox is gone is buying into the organization narrative, in my opinion. No biggie. We elect Presidents based on what we want to believe, so why should rooting for an NBA team be any different? What I see is an organization that is too cheap to want to pay Fox his next contract, so they threw him under the bus via the Brown firing and then cut bait and forced the narrative at their first opportunity.
Maybe I’m wrong, but this is an organization that habitually sells picks for cash or to get out of contract, and it is an organization that is currently carrying less player contracts (13) than is mandated by the league for as long as they possibly can. So in this regard, the prior actions of this organization shapes my view of the future. It is a view that can be altered through actual results and positive success.
I am focused on the current roster and the last game they won. You are focused on the distant past and the organization as a whole which is valid in every way, but a different discussion.
Monk is a starter here and definitely a starter on the majority of other NBA teams. The desire to see Ellis start does not change that. It is a result of only being able to play five players at a time. Ellis should clearly be playing more than he does. I think he should play thirty plus minutes a game. The coaching staff and front office think differently than you and I do. I understand the passion for the past and the connection to that long gone era. The past and the long gone era have nothing to do with today. Jason Thompson and Ellis are not at all connected. Thompson was not playing with four other centers that were better than him. I expect the standard Ellis statistics in response to this. Keeping that in mind you must accept that Derozan, Lavine, and Monk are far better players than Ellis.
Fox is gone. The great debate about how or why he left is entertaining but not relevant to the current performance or future of this team. The past behaviors of this team are the past. Some of those behaviors clearly persist but many have changed as well.
I understand and appreciate the past actions and ethos of this failed organization. As a fan of this team I don’t hate watch them. If it gets to that point I will no longer pay attention to them.
Fox and Monk are very similar players, which many people don’t see — they’re both hybrid 1/2 who can handle, but primarily looking to score, just like K Irving. If we want a 2, Lavine is better in iso, better in transition, a better shooter, and a more efficient scorer.
If Fox was a better defender, that would be something, but he’s really not. Paying him $50-60 million to be a slightly better version of Monk would just be stupid.
End result, team might not improve, but it won’t be worse than a team built around Fox playing the 1.
Agree. Fox is in the right role in San Antonio and I think he knows it. Fox was the point guard here because he needed the ball in his hands to score. I do find it interesting that Monk being a pure two in my opinion is actually changing his game in many ways to be try to be a true one.
Recapping what I have gleaned from this thread, five games is too small of a sample size to judge LaRavia, but one game is the perfect sample size to judge the Kings. Got it.
And the use of “distant past” is adorable.
Shai, Maxey, Brunson, Cade, Dame, Kyrie, Fox, Herro, Trae, Steph, Garland, Jamal Murray, Hali, Van Vleet, Ja, Harden, . Those are the 16 lead guards that I place clearly above Monk. Choose any one of Jrue Holiday, LaMelo, Derrick White, or consider Luka a lead guard and he drops even further. So no, he is not the starting lead guard on a majority of NBA teams. He is, however, on a very short list of top 6th men, and playing for a team that has been woefully short on bench contributions this season.
I don’t think that I have ever offered that I “hate watch” this team, so if we are talking relevance here, that is far less pertinent than that Fox-related convo. /Shrugs
One game is not at all a good measure. In the last two games the game plan has actually been obvious instead of purely unknown. The bench, which is almost all new players gathered in the last few weeks, is much better than it has been.
Is Jason Thompson starting applicable to anything recent in terms of the roster?
We have Monk. Not the sixteen guards you place above him.
You did not at all offer “hate watch”. I made the point that I do not “hate watch” the team and if I ever did I will simply choose to pay attention to something else.
Yes. He was a starter for years, absent of a better alternative. That is applicable as it pertains to Monk being the starting PG. Monk is a fine player, and a spectacular 6th man. But he is not a top half of the league starting lead guard.
Yes, we have Monk. You stated that he would start for the majority of the teams in the league. I listed why I feel that is incorrect.
This is the where the conversation begins to bore the ever living shit out of the other members (if we have not passed that point already), so I’ll leave the last word to you.
Cold world…
Wait, I was told Jason Thompson has nothing to do with this!
Wow!
That’s all-time leader in Sacramento Kings games played to you!
Even further from Monk.
Can you explain how Jason Thompson correlates to Malik Monk?
I agree Jason Thompson has nothing to do with anything.
What did you catch?
I disagree. Monk can throw a pass over anyone’s head.
Or where nobody is to catch it. Seen it.
Yup. I’d only add he’s not even the top half of off guards in the league. The simple reality is he doesn’t start for any contending team, and likely not on any team currently ahead of the Kings in the standings. He’s a great 6th man, but unfortunately the Kings have been forced to start him because they have no one else.
Monk is s starter by default, not skill.
One says he does not start on any team and lists sixteen other guards that are better. Another says he does not start on a contender. I just watched him start for the Kings many times this year. He is a starting player for the Sacramento Kings and most recently the starting point guard for the Sacramento Kings.
We can all debate how good he is or where else he could or could not start. The reality is he starts here in Sacramento.
Jason Thompson to Monk is a leap I do not at all see. I don’t understand that. You see Monk differently than I do. I appreciate your perspective but do not agree. You went down a rabbit hole of the past in response to my comment about the game last night. Awkward conversation.
Good ending point.
BUT, BUT, THEY BEAT THE WORST TEAM IN THE WEST LAST NIGHT!
Why do you like the Sacramento Kings?
For the same reason you’re a troll; it makes no sense whatsoever.
You have the most useful and insightful contributions to the conversation and community.
Why do I laugh when I read this? All that pounding must have caused me brain damage. You’d think those round holes would have been chiseled square by now.
Heartily agree with this analysis.
Can’t figure out why I still watch.
Yet team couldn’t find an acceptable 2 for 7-8 years before landing Huerter, while drafting Fox, Ty and Mitchell to play the 1.
The 9-man rotation has more talent than any Kings team since 2004, but they have 3 new starters and 3 of the first 5 guys off the bench are brand new.
I’m not stupid enough to bet that MM makes the right roster tweaks in off season to move team to 50-win territory, but the success of 22-23 was a mirage given that the only guys ready for playoff intensity were Fox, Monk and Lyles.
FO gave Fox and Sabonis last year and 45 games this year to show that they’re good enough to build around….. and they are if the objective is to win 42-45 games every year. On to Plan D or G, or whatever…..
Especially after having been way off base with my Davion comments last season, (mea culpa) I don’t want to make the mistake of arguing with you again. That said, why is Keegan not a PF? How many NBA PFs have him out-matched physically? Sometimes he avoids contact, fades away from the basket from 3 ft. against a smaller guy. That’s frustrating, but he’s capable of playing through guys, and we’ve seen him do it. He’s listed at 6’8″, 225. Jason Tatum 6’8″ 210. I don’t think Celtics fans are complaining about JT playing out of position, and he’s not terribly physical either.
I’m still hearing this idea from a lot of commenters, it’s not just you, but your among the most perspicacious on this forum. I don’t mean to split hairs, and I’ve made the same comment in the past, but Murray has stepped up his defense and rebounding. Is it time to reconsider Keegan’s true position?
The rest is spot-on, but Fox/Ellis should have been the starting backcourt to begin this season, and they didn’t have the guts to send even Kevin Huerter to the bench. Is it realistic to expect DC to bench a star talent like LaVine? And would the FO (Vivek) allow it even if he made that choice? Money shouldn’t factor in, but we all know it does, always has, always will.
Anyway Zach is the one player in the starting unit who is definitely not playing out of position. I think we agree DeRozan is also best at the 2. I would say DeMar should come off the bench, and maybe Monk, as well.
I’m beginning to think Fultz should start at PG. I realize at his best, he’s likely below average as a starter, but this starting unit needs all of what he brings, and little of what Monk does,. Size, defense, and the ability/ willingness to get others involved are uniquely lacking on this squad. I didn’t mean to write so much but it just kept coming- your thoughts please.
I’m with you on Keegan. I think he can play either forward position.
The problem is we have no rim protection and while Keegan has stepped up, he’s not scaring people off taking it all the way to the hoop.
So, for me, it’s not Keegan can’t play the 4, it’s we’d be better if we had a 4 so Keegan could play the 3.
A lineup with 3&D PG-Zach-Keegan-3&D PF-Sabonis can get home court IMO.
I think this is right. Keegan could go to the 3 for a PF who provides better rim protection and vertical spacing.
Every player in the starting 5 isn’t going to hit 3’s — we need a 4 that can rebound, D up and protect the rim + a PG that passes first and can defend the other team’s top scoring guard.
Then let Zach, Domas and Murray at 3 lead the offense. Monk, Ellis and JV off the bench. DDR is the trade bait.
Obviously needed a good quality starting four for a very long time now. Forced Barnes into the four. Did not work well. Forcing Keegan into the four. Has ruined him offensively until last night. Keegan was scoring last night because JV and LaRavia freed up his game having some size to balance out the roster.
In fairness, he usually isn’t around the rim to protect it. He’s guarding a smaller ball-handler. It’s a very unusual usage of a 4.
Keegan is not at all four. Barnes was not a four either. All we did was switch the problem to a different player.
I agree that Keegan could play the four – if you get a three that has length and can provide at least a little weak side lane defense. I guess what I’m trying to say is that you need some depth and flexibility at the 3-4, and we know who Keegan is, so build from there. I think that John Collins would have worked well up front with Domas and Keegan. Cam Johnson is less of a pristine fit but still viable. Jerami Grant might work (contract notwithstanding). OG would help any defense (he is not available). Siakam would have worked. Not available but perfect would be JJJ or Amen Thompson, but Jabari Smith or Tari Eason would be nice adds as well.
To be clear, I’m not saying that any of these guys are easily available. But to your point, you could flip Keegan to either the 3 or 4 depending on who you plug in alongside him.
Thanks for answering Rob.
We need a true four badly.
Your comment seems badly over-stated. Again, I like your enthusiasm, but it’s not infectious. I’m assuming (hoping) your young, and your analytical skills will improve. We have the benefit/privilege of some knowledgeable, and insightful commenters who have been doing this for quite a while. Do yourself, and us all, a favor: watch and learn. Realize you aren’t the Master of Ceremony here. These guys can be sharks. You can save yourself the heckling just asking questions. You are not now the guy we are seeking answers from.
You got all of that from me saying we need a true four badly?
Did you analyze that? How old is young? How long does one have to do this?
Have not seen any sharks. The vast majority of people here have been interesting and have points of view that are fun to discuss.
Nobody is the master and nobody has been heckling. Nobody has sought answers from me or you.
Yeah…ok…
That is it?
No questions for me? Am I too old? Too young? No analysis help?
I am looking for a mentor.
I feel lost in life now.
Did you just explain to DannyG the meaning of “condescending” or “patronizing”? BTW “grossly overstated”, “highly overstated”, … but wouldn’t “badly overstated” be understated overstatement? Now that’s pedantic of me! 🙂
Can you explain it?
Wow! pretzel locution for pretzel logic.
I am glad Carl googled a new word and you guys are grasping on to it. Change is hard around here.
Hey Lil’ chief runnin’ tail, go try to sell your tale to someone else.
What?
If this is an insult please explain.
Your refusal to disengage is a running insult. If you don’t like the response, you can always Run-n-Tell, Lil’ chief.
Politically, they didn’t have the guts to take him out of the starting lineup. Intellectually, they knew there were better options on the bench and they put those options in after 4 minutes unless Huerter was on a heater. They sent him to the bench slightly after the start of the game. He consistently played the fewest minutes of any starter. So… maybe do the same thing with Keon?
30 minutes is 30 minutes. The same argument for putting Monk back on the bench but it is not acceptable for Keon because of the emotional attachment.
yeah maybe
Rec’d for “perspicacious”
Keon Ellis and honestly, any of them. It’d probably be easiest for Monk but that leaves you lacking in the playmaking department. Personally, I’d bring DeRozan off the bench but that seems impossible given his stature around the league. Doubt Doug has the chops to make that work.
Keon Ellis and any of them?
So which one of “honestly any of them” should start?
Derozan is a starter for many reasons. He is different and many Kings fans refuse to see that for the reality that it is. Keon playing over Derozan is not going to happen. We can debate the reasons but agree that it is not happening.
I personally do not see any reason not to start Derozan with this roster. Debating which players should start or come off of the bench is awesome for this franchise. It means this franchise finally has enough depth to considering starting a bench player. That is a win.
See KFan’s NetRTG stats from above.
The Kings have been downright bad in the 157 minutes Monk, DDR, and LaVine are sharing the floor with Keegan and Sabonis. n the 15 minutes Keon is in place of DDR with the starters, the team is humming.
the Kings are simply better when Keon in place of either Monk or DDR with the starters.
Yep. It goes beyond talent. It’s also about fit.
When you have Monk, LaVine and DDR all on the floor together, it means less touches for Sabonis and even Murray than when Ellis is in for one of the three aforementioned scorers.
LaVine, DDR & Monk all take more than 22 shots per 100 possessions. Sabonis is under 18, Murray under 15, Ellis is at 12. It simply balances the offense better (by the way, Sabonis and Ellis have the best effective FG% on the team by a wide margin), and Ellis is a big defensive plus over any of those guys.
Last night was also a clear example of Monk trying to force way too much in his new role.
Heck, in February, his 3pt% has dropped to 27%, his FG% has dropped to 41% and his TOS have ballooned to 3.5 per game.
I love Monk but he is being asked to be something that he has never been before and do more that he is best suited to do.
And we all know that works every time …
The Alley-oops were fun to watch though.With the trade deadline long gone who do you think the Kings should use as the starting point guard?
They are stuck with a roster without a true starting PG for the rest of the season. Insert your favorite SG/Combo guard from the list [Monk/Ellis/Lavine], as it doesn’t really matter at this point to me. None of them would be playing to their strengths in that role.
I am at a loss, however, as to why that Hobson’s choice seems like “progress” to anyone, but around and around we go.
There is a choice. Fultz, Carter, or Monk. Further on the fringe…Ellis, Derozan. That is five to choose from.
Nobody ever said starting Monk at point guard is progress. The roster is more balanced and they are beating teams they should beat. They are using a clear and intentional game plan. That is progress.
Carter? Lol You might not even make a play in game!
Fultz is the only true PG of the bunch, but you are asking a dude who hasn’t played all year and hasn’t been a regular starting PG in two seasons to be the PG savior? Dude has never averaged 30 minutes a game in his entire career! I like the Fultz pick up as a spot minutes back up PG, but okie dokie.
Choose whoever you want. This team is likely losing over 50% of its remaining games any way you go, and getting bounced in the play in games. It doesn’t matter, last night’s “progress” notwithstanding. It’s not a meaningful choice.
This team is definitely getting bounced in the play in if it makes it to the play in. That is obvious.
So Carter is not a point guard all of a sudden? Is he a shooting guard battling for minutes with Keon now?
You are clearly bothered by Monk being the starting point guard so it is meaningful to you. I was just curious and hoping to hear who you preferred but you just stated that Monk is the obvious and only choice.
It’s not all of a sudden. Just watch him play. He is giving off big time undersized combo guard vibes.
I hope he proves me wrong. We shall see.
I agree. Bust before he was even able to be a bust.
All the more reason Monk is the current choice.
This. Keon is one of my favorite Kings right now, with two honest to goodness, in-demand, good to elite basketball skills. That being said, these small sample size net ratings and records don’t mean anything. Keon plays defense well and shoots at an elite level. He does a lot of other guard things not well. That’s fine!
Not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, but this team is not a starting lineup change from anything. I hope they try it for no other reason than to satisfy everyone who is convinced that the team will turn around.
Turn around means what?
I think a stable base is what is needed. That is much better than the death spiral we have been in.
You’re clearly a smart person, but every argument you’ve gotten into today is about pedantry and not basketball. Not interested.
Agree. It’s really killing the thread. Not fun
I have been talking about basketball, not history. I appreciate your comments and their relevance.
So I ask again…what does a “turn around” mean to you?
I think a “turn around” is establishing a base of normal functional outcomes. Like winning games we are supposed to win. Building a roster in which every spot has depth. Having back up bigs instead of six guards. I see the beginning of the turn happening.
Do you?
I’m seeing your opinion here, but I have to disagree with your conclusion. The HC is, and has always been the problem with this team. This roster is, (IMO) more talented than the one who pushed the Dubs to 7 games a couple season ago. There are countless examples of teams out-performing their talent throughout league history. Look at Jordi in Brooklyn. Sac under-performed their talent 16 years straight! I would also blame the owner and the FO for dangling the coach on puppet strings, but a HC who is willing to be dangled is still the problem.
MB had to know Huerter needed to be benched, everyone knew! MB isn’t stupid but, being the company man he has always been, he buckled under the pressure from above. If Pop had spent the last 20 years coaching in Sac, the drought would never have happened, despite the talent level. He would coach his team as it needed to be coached, and offer his resignation at the first hint of the FO even “offering suggestions.” A chef can only do so much with inferior ingredients, but it only takes one extra pinch of salt to completely ruin the whole recipe. And that has been going on in Sac since Adelman was let go.
Move DeMar and Monk to the bench for Fultz and LaRavia and watch this team flourish with a very competent starting 5, and one of the best benches in the league. Fultz to compliment LaVine, LaRavia and Murray to compliment Sabonis= BALANCE in the starting 5.
Keon, Lyles and JV to compliment Monk, and DeRozan= BALANCE off the bench.
I don’t think I’m seeing anything others don’t. I just think others aren’t willing to hope for, or believe in the difference proper coaching can make, even after we just saw it with the recent change. Now we’re seeing the pressure from above starting to kneecap another good coach. DC needs to make a power move by telling his boss to do his own job, or find another interim. tf he finds the guts he may soon be the one holding the strings, much like Pop always did in SA.
Bbbbbingo!!! My god man, preach brother preach
Thanks Mike. I was really on one there. I truly believe a coach like Pop would have had the Kings in the post-season close to every other year during the drought, despite the talent level.
Beyond fantasizing about changing coaches in the past. What do you think about now? Could Pop get our current roster into the playoffs?
Reading this standard recitation of the Ellis stat line and reason to start is great to see.
He is damn good. Having a damn good player fighting for a starting spot is a sign of success. We have multiple players capable of starting. That is great.
It’s wild to me that some folks struggle with this concept. Just because a guy can get you a bucket doesn’t mean he should be starting and getting 30+ minutes every night. If that were the case Aaron Wiggins would be starting over Lu Dort and Payton Pritchard would be starting over Jrue Holiday. From what I hear the teams that those dudes play for aren’t any good anyway.
Just to bring it closer to home, there was a reason Doug Christie started and got more minutes over Bobby Jackson.
I love that there is a struggle and a valid argument about who should start.
The Kings are finally building a roster!
They really are. When Lyles is healthy (I think?) and has a DNP, it means there are some quality options. Deep bench, but need a person to bolster the starting 5.
An All Star level power forward next to Sabonis and with JV for some support would be awesome.
I do love seeing a real back up center. Lyles and LaRavia competing for time.
Building the right 5 and the correct bench rotation is how we go from .500 to 50+ wins.
Could go get a pass first 1 and/or move DDR for a true 4 who rebounds & defends, move Keegan to the 3.
Do you trade Monk and make Ellis the 6th man?
in a batter position now than a month ago to build a winner. Seeing the impact of JV might convince FO to finally add more size at the 4.
With the right 1 and 4 in the lineup, an O led by Domas, Lavine and Murray with Ellis and Monk off the bench (and JV) …. That might be something.
We now have redundancy in Monk, Derozan, Lavine, and Ellis. Any of these could be used in a deal to get us a four a one or both. This is opportunity. Hoping they use the opportunity.
DDR or Monk would have to be moved. If you get a true 1 and you have Lavine and Ellis, we won’t have enough minutes for Monk at guard…. Unless we’re back to playing 3-4 guys under 6-4 at same time, which hasn’t worked previously. I hate to move Monk because he’s great value at $19.5mm.
in truth, DDR is also better value than Fox for what he contributes.
Maybe if we move on from all of the bench mob other than JV and Ellis, we can add a vet 1 and a decent 4 … while keeping both DDR and Monk and pushing one of em to the bench?
I would prefer we keep Monk, Derozan, and Lavine. We are better now with this roster than we were with Fox. That is not saying much though.
JV, Ellis, and LaRavia is our bench. It will be a miracle if the remainder of our bench brings back anything.
Ellis is not redundant with any of those three lolwhat
So we don’t have too many shooting guards?
Put me in the camp that I much prefer Keegan at the 4 than I do Monk at the 1. Keegan fits the prototypical 4 in today’s NBA. Should the Kings look for an “upgrade” at the 4? Sure, but that’s going to be hard to find and will take moving DDR. Finding a solid 3 and D PG is more of a priority, IMO.
The Kings have had Lavine for less than ten games. The NetRTG is going to change when he actually plays games here.
Keon should definitely play thirty plus minutes here. For many reasons he does not. One of the most obvious reasons is the glut of shooting guards on the roster. The other shooting guards also being being better and more established.
The debate about Keon starting is a great thing. It means we have depth for the first time in a very long time. This is what happens on good basketball teams at multiple positions. So far we have one player that deserves to start without the room for him to start. I love having this problem.
How many games has Lavine played as a King?
Is any stat on that small sample size logically useful?
More useful than the the last two wins you feel have show signs of improvement.
Give me the data over the eyeball takes.
What is the Kings win loss percentage with Lavine vs. Fox?
Win loss percentage with Derozan vs. Keon?
Cherry picking illogical stats goes both ways.
Somewhere out there, JT is smiling and saying to himself “Man, I did give an impression during my stint with Sac.”
On the other side of town, BenchBlob is fuming.
Definitely! The guy is a legend and is now continually being brought into the current Kings mix.
Maybe JT is the next legacy hire to keep the fans that are stuck in that era buying shirts and hats?
I honestly did not think JT was bad when he was here. A serviceable player and a good guy.
It seems like we’ve seen this movie before. The team does barely well enough to be a middling ~0.500 team, neither tanking nor a good team. Stuck in a rut with no plan (or intention) of getting out of it. I seriously believe that Utah (and maybe most/all teams tanking this season) win a playoff series before the Kings do.
DDR was more of a facilitator this game, taking “only” 14 shots and dishing out 8 assists with 0 TOs. Of course, it was the Jazz, but if he wanted to, he could have iso’s the hell out of the game because who could guard him? But credit where credit is due.
He is a great basketball player.
I don’t do social media so I don’t know what he wrote but there are few things in the world less relevant to basketball than Nick Stauskas. Another of the fine turds that Vivek has laid on this team.
Is it tied to Jason Thompson somehow?
You must be one of Hamlet’s sharks?
CHOMP CHOMP!
I am joking. Having a little fun. You went from JT to Stauskus all in the same day. There has to be humor there.
That pick alone set us back a couple of years due to that idiotic draft “war room” with everyone’s faces showing defeat as the owner meddled with the choice. If i remember correctly, STR was very high on Vonleh but he has been a bust. McBuckets went at 11, and Zach went 13. But the biggest fuck-up this Vivekery did was not drafting a 7 foot center at 41 who would be the multiple MVP for years to come. Nick rocks my ass you buffoon of an owner.
Just realized that I posted my Stauskas comment as a reply to the wrong post from Inigo. Ohs wells.
Not going to argue that was a good process, but that draft had very, very little talent from Stauskas on, and 20-something other teams also passed on Jokic.
That was about the most meh 17 point win I have ever seen.
OT: Nick Stauskas bashing Kessler Edwards on X? Seriously? Stauskas? Stauskas?
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Every time the Kings win this season, I get sad knowing that I’m probably not going to see a winning team here for the next 8 years.
Sports Illustrated had a love letter to Vivek today in their article about the A’s in West Sacramento.
A good read. Loved the stuff on Rickey.
And the odds of MLB granting Ranadingdong an expansion franchise are about as good as…
Just wanted to post this. Took about 7 resets to get it
Sadly, Phoenix is so bad I don’t think we’re losing the 10th play-in spot. That team loses to EVERYBODY these days.
Yeah, the Suns are hot garbage. They pretty much will ensure we will end up at least as the 10th seed.
Keegan-Flagg-Domas frontcourt works for me!
Also, too bad we didn’t get SA’s 2025 #1 in the Fox trade.
Or at least the worst of SA’s and Atl’s 2025 #1 (SA owns that as well). To not get Castle or Sochan or even Vassell or one of those two ’25 picks was amazeballs to me. As much as SA wanted Fox and Fox wanted SA, I would have walked away from that deal had I been the Kings. I mean, how much less value are you going to get come summer, remembering that you have no contractual obligation to send Fox to SA. I think Vivek’s fanboy crush on LaVine played a role in all of this.
100%. Vivek once again got his man. Stauskas, Buddy and now LaVine. They all have similar traits and flaws as well.
Trae Young and Kuzma are just waiting in the queue!
BREAKING: Kings trade Keegan Murray and Keon Ellis for Jordan Poole.
I just died a little inside.
Trae Young is a step up from our current point guard situation.
How do you seriously compare Lavine to Stauskus?
I am seriously curious. I don’t see it.
Stauskas, Buddy, and LaVine are all off guard volume shooters “known” for their 3 point shot. They also play very little defense. Vivek wants/likes the 3pt shot while still longing for what the Warriors had. It’s pretty damn obvious he wants to replicate the Warriors of a decade ago, but his judgment of talent and fit are beyond questionable. If you don’t recognize that, then I have a bridge to sell you.
What bridge are you selling?
Is it the one that spans the horrendously big leap you took comparing Stauskus to Lavine? That bridge is pure magic!
Lavine does not play defense. Lavine is an offensive force that can lead a team in scoring. Buddy and Stauskus are not that.
Why complain about the team’s three point shooting for months and then also complain when one of the better three point shooters in the NBA shows up?
Griping and whining about Lavine while creating a false narrative that he is not a good basketball player is not changing anything. If you don’t recognize that, then I don’t know why you watch basketball.
Zachskas!
Please explain any correlation between Stauskus and Lavine. Simply whining is not reality.
They along with Buddy were/are Vivek fanboy crushes. It’s a joke on the video release of Vivek convincing the rest of the front office to draft Stauskus.
At least you explained yourself. Buddy has some fanboys in SF that are chasing a ring.
(Thanks for not mentioning not getting our pick swap back! lol)
It is done. Fox wanted to play in San Antonio.
If you could pick San Antonio Spurs or Sacramento Kings which one would it be?
Today our roster is bigger, more balanced, still heavy at the shooting guard, and still missing a point guard.
FO says they want to “win now” — right or wrong, do we think that another draft pick or those various SA roster players are better fits in Sacto right now and likely to produce more wins over the next 12-24 months?
Seems the raging debate on this site revolves around the view that Fox is a materially better player than Lavine …. Despite no evidence to support that view.
Also….despite the fact that Fox intentionally left this team. Fox had no intention of being here for the next 12-24 months.
Fox chose to leave. The Kings took what they could from the situation. Lavine is a good player. We got a really good back up center. We picked up a forward that is capable of impacting a game off of the bench.
We got better.
Absolutely. One of those better picks is a better trade asset, so even for a win(ce) now FO, it is a big thing.
Most national consensus rankings place Fox 20-25 players ahead of LaVine. However many grains of salt you want to throw at that, Fox is generally and universally regarded as the better player, and that’s before taking into consideration that he is a currently a lot cheaper than LaVine, making him a better value as well. And no one around these parts (sans Vivek)ever tried to make the case that LaVine was better than Fox until the moment we acquired him.
LaVine is a far superior 3 pt. shooter. All other statistical categories go to Fox.
My take: A month ago the roster had two top 30 (and maybe top 25) players. Now we have one. That is usually not a recipe to relevance in the NBA. But hell, what do I know? Far be it for me to question a historically successful organization like Vivek Ranadive’s Sacramento Kings.
You know your history and live in it.
I’d post it here if I could, but there’s a really good video on YouTube with the actual numbers — beyond his Elite 3pt shooting, Lavine is much better than Fox in isolation and transition, and scores the same points on 3 fewer shots per game.
You’re buying the narrative on Fox, which is fine, but in 2 years he’ll be more expensive than Lavine and FO would be locked into $55mm+ for long term …. Show me any actual metrics that indicate Fox is a better offensive player with more impact on game. When traded, he was #6 on Kings in plus and #4 in P per 100.
we wanted him to be SAG or Luka, but he just isn’t that player quality. I wish he was.
The national media consensus in 2022 was that we should’ve traded Fox, not Ty — that I believe to be 100% true. We traded the better, younger player.
Fox is a top 50 player, not top 25, and I don’t think any objective observer puts Fox in top 25 — wasn’t even mentioned for All Star consideration last year or this year.
ESPN, Hoopshype, The Ringer, CBS all had Fox in their season kickoff top 30s. And while there are plenty of nits to pick with each of them, they are all objective. LaVine’s highest number among these is late 30s, and a couple he does not crack the top 50.
As it pertains to “buying the narrative” on Fox, I posit that there are those that have bought the org.’s narrative hook, line & sinker. But to each their own.
Those are subjective rankings, nothing objective of any value. Means absolutely nothing to anyone who’s fact based.
Here are some facts as of the date of the Lavine-Fox trade: Transition — Lavine 6.3 PPG game (7th in NBA), 1.26 points per possession; Fox — 5.4 PPG (19th), 0.97 points per possession
Isolation: Lavine – 1.15 Pts per Iso possession (1st among players with 50+ isos); Fox — 0.85 Pts per Iso possession (40th among players with 50+ isos)
Obviously we could talk at length about how much better Lavine is at every variety of 3PFG, including 44.8% on pull-up 3’s, world class step back, crazy range, and shoots well drifting right or left.
So what are the stats that Fox has in his favor if his superior all-around game is something other than a “nice narrative” — playmaking?
They are rankings that are largely absent of personal bias. You asked and I provided. They don’t fit your narrative so you dismiss. Which is your right.
Assist percentage & every measurable defensive metric – there are two ends to the court. BPM, VORP, and more. And that doesn’t even touch on the clutch numbers.
If the argument is that LaVine is as good as or better player than Fox, that is a new, fresh, saucy, Viveky take.
By the way, I think that LaVine is a very good player. Not as good as Fox, but a very good player. He is also overpriced to the rough equivalent of costing you cap room for an MLE player. Not the end of the world. Not nothing.
Fox isn’t the difference maker that we wanted him to be, that’s the sad truth. I loved his potential. To me, this love affair is no different than Kings fans wanting Tyreke to become a baby Lebron and DMC to grow into the next D Robinson or P Ewing, and Bagley to not be a bust. We wanted Fox to be “special”, to have the impact that Luka and SAG have on their teams, to become a 1st team All NBA player that you can build around …. and we can cling to the fact that he became pretty good, but not great.
The difference in ability and talent between Lavine and Fox is so small on both ends of the court, with Lavine having a game much better suited to win in the modern NBA on the O end, I’m candidly just surprised at how a segment of the fandom has run with the narrative that we’ve traded a Big Star with immense potential for a lesser light and pile of beans.
And with respect to your rankings, I’ll bet a lot that Fox falls quite a bit between start of this season and next season. Fox is what he is and he’s not getting any better. Other young players like a Cade Cunningham are entering the league and passing Fox by. Paying him $55mm per year to just keep being the player he is would be the easy move for a complacent FO, and would like insure that Kings remain a 45-win squad, which doesn’t inspire me very much, although it’s better than the truly lean years between 2010-2022.
OT: I take this to mean the Kings will definitely have to do something with the roster in the coming days. They sit at 13 rostered players and have to get to 14. I can only assume the reason they haven’t converted a guy like Isaac Jones to a regular deal is because they are cheap ass slime balls and every day he isn’t signed is some money saved.
https://bsky.app/profile/keithsmithnba.bsky.social/post/3ljb4qs7juc2h
Jason Thompson coming back to fill the forward spot?
Stauskus making a return to compete with the eighteen other guards?
The legacy guys are always hit. Sell some more hats and jerseys to the true die hards.
Are you really going to SPAM these threads for another day?
Your legitimate takes/questions are getting lost in the volume of crap.
There is a legitimate link between JT and Monk according to many here. I don’t agree but it is surprisingly extremely valid and real to some.
Stauskus in the convo is stupid but it somehow happened?
The legacy hires and folk lore of the long gone past is a very large part of this organization and a large part of the fan base.
This team definitely needs a good starting power forward and is still dealing with too many shooting guards.
The smart thing to do would be to sign a good power forward that has been needed for a very long time.
There might be someone better than Isaac in the works?
Or they are trying to sort out the hole at point guard?
Anyone catch that 56 point Steph Curry performance last night?
12 3 pointers (12-19). Only 7 have made at least 12 3 pointers in a game. The stat they showed had Steph (3x -one time 13), Klay (3x – one time 14) and of the other 5 – two were Sacramento Kings. Zach Lavine (13 -not as a King), and Kee-gan Mur-ray. The other 3 were Damian Lillard (13), Donyell Marshall and Kobe Bryant.
The Warriors are on a roll since adding Jimmy Butler winning 5 in a row and Kuminga is about ready to return. Meanwhile, the Clippers, who have overperformed IMO, are on a downtrend, having gone 4-6 in their last 10 but are at the #6 spot today. They are 6 games over .500 (32-26) with GSW and MIN 5 games over, DAL 4 games over and the Kings at just 2 games over. PHX is next at 5 games below .500 and just one game above the Blazers.
True greats know how to and when to turn it on. Curry is one of those all time greats. Butler is a team player who simply wants a ring. He will do whatever it takes to win. Warriors and Lakers are surging for a number of reasons.
Oldies but Goodies, like’em or not.
Since many of us tend to go there;
depressing thought of the day.
Vivek fires Monte McNair…
and hires Nico Harrison!
At one time Nico had one of the best teams in the NBA. Better to be good once than never good at all.
Badge Legend