Articles | Commentary | Kangz

Earned angst and the Sacramento Kings

The Kings aren't horribly off track to start the season, but being on track for the play-in isn't enough.

This morning I was catching up on a recent episode of The Lowe Post in which ESPN's Zach Lowe and Kevin Pelton discussed NBA teams in various states of angst. Naturally, the Kings were a topic of conversation. The podcast was recorded before last night's loss to the Timberwolves, but overall Lowe and Pelton felt that the sense of worry in Sacramento may be a bit overblown.

Both pundits were actually upbeat about the Kings so far, highlighting positive advanced stats around an improved defense, a good offense, and the joys of the Haliburton and Holmes pick and roll. Lowe capped it off saying that the Kings look like a team that will be around .500 and in the play-in, and he's not sure why anyone in Sacramento would be worried about it right now when they appear on track.

It's a reasonable argument. The Kings were the 10th seed before yesterday's loss and currently sit at the 11th seed. The Kings won some games we expected them to lose, and lost some games we expected them to win. Those things tend to balance out over time, and as we look at the lay of the land at this point in the season it seems very likely that the Kings will be able to make the play-in.

The Oklahoma City Thunder are currently 10th, but seem likely to slip in the standings as the year progresses. The Timberwolves are right behind the Kings, but appear to be just as messy as Sacramento, even though the Wolves prevailed last night. The path to the 10 seed is pretty straightforward for Sacramento.

So why worry? Why now?

Because the play-in should not be the standard of success. Monte McNair told Kings fans this summer that Luke Walton would be the coach to get the Kings back to the playoffs. Not the play-in, the playoffs.

The play-in has been a huge success for the NBA. Teams like Sacramento foolishly chased the play-in last season instead of trying to improve their draft standing. Combined with flattened lottery odds, very few teams are fully bottoming out anymore. But that doesn't change the fact that the 10th seed is still nothing worth celebrating.

The goal for Kings fans is the playoffs. The stated goal of the front office is the playoffs. And the expectation behind the scenes, according to the report from Amick and Shams, is that this team make the playoffs.

Were Kings ownership and management fooling themselves when they looked at this roster and saw a playoff team? Perhaps. But human nature isn't to look in the mirror, it's to point a finger. If management thinks this is a playoff roster and the team is on track for the 10th seed, they're going to find a fall guy. We saw the same thing happen in Portland this past summer. Everyone could see that the roster construction wasn't that of a title contender, but Neil Olshey placed the blame on Terry Stotts. It's simply how the league works.

But aside from the general disillusionment, there's the simply reality that the Kings are on the verge of setting the NBA's all-time record for longest playoff drought. It's bad enough to have tied the record for futility, the Kings don't want to be sole owners of the dubious distinction.

And the Kings need to breathe life into the fan base. COVID has had a financial impact on all teams over the last year and a half, and continues to impact leaguewide attendance at games, but the Kings are currently sitting 22nd in the NBA in home attendance, sorting by attendance as a percentage of capacity to make it fair. The Sacramento Kings fan base, loyal to a fault, isn't showing up to games. You can say it's because of COVID restrictions, or the financial impacts of the last 18 months, but the reality is that 21 NBA teams are drawing a larger portion of their capacity. If we look at raw attendance instead of percentages, the Kings are dead last in attendance.

Even Kings fans have their breaking point. It's not enough to be in the hunt for the 10th seed. Think about how depressing that is. "In the hunt for the 10th seed." In the hunt for the outside chance of sneaking into the playoffs against difficult odds. No, that's not enough. More than half the teams in the West will make the playoffs, being one of the last two teams to miss the playoffs simply isn't setting the bar high enough. The play-in is not enough for Kings fans, and it shouldn't be enough for Kings ownership and management.

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SexyNapear
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November 18, 2021 3:22 pm

Want to get fans to show up? Cut the damn ticket prices. Nobody wants to pay $600 ($750 with food and parking) for a family of four to sit in the lower bowl to watch Food Coma Fox brick three-pointers. I refuse to sit in the cliff-like steep nosebleed seats of the upper deck.

The Kings have the 18th highest median ticket price in the league. They are No. 1 in ineptitude.

Last edited 1 year ago by SexyNapear
TheGrantNapear
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November 18, 2021 7:36 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

After 15 years of ineptitude I find it odd that King’s fans still waste their hard earned money attending games.

Sacto_J
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November 19, 2021 7:35 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

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bangbangplay
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November 18, 2021 3:31 pm

I have two obligated games to go to this season. And then I will “watch” the rest of the games from home. Not worth to go watch a product what I can see at home

andy_sims
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November 18, 2021 3:37 pm
Reply to  bangbangplay

If you’ve been kidnapped, respond to this with the letter X in bold font.

I’ll be damned if I’ll allow someone to be forced against their will to attend a Kings game.

Kosta
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November 18, 2021 4:59 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

comment image

Hozr
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November 19, 2021 12:26 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Wow, it’s worse than we thought possible. Not only has he been kidnapped and forced to attend games, he has been forced to sit next to Vivek.

andy_sims
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November 18, 2021 3:35 pm

A lot of terrific points here, truly, but this?

The Sacramento Kings fan base, loyal to a fault, isn’t showing up to games. You can say it’s because of COVID restrictions, or the financial impacts of the last 18 months, but the reality is that 21 NBA teams are drawing a larger portion of their capacity. If we look at raw attendance instead of percentages, the Kings are dead last in attendance.

How many of those twenty-one teams play in states with fewer COVID restrictions than those of California?

I have no doubt that even if there was a way to factor that in, the Kings still wouldn’t look particularly good on attendance, but your entire hand is on the scale with this.

I still think that McNair said what he said about Walton and the playoffs, first because, what the hell else is he going to say? But more importantly, doing so started the clock on Walton by providing a fixed landmark by which to measure success or failure. If so, it wouldn’t necessarily require Walton to stay the whole season, especially if the playoff goal begins to look untenable. It hasn’t yet, but…

Luke Walton!

Sacto_J
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November 19, 2021 7:39 am
Reply to  Greg

If you want more people in the door, the way to do that is…
Make tickets more affordable, for starters. The product they’re charging for ain’t commensurate with the product they’re actually giving us.

AlRey
November 19, 2021 10:15 am
Reply to  Greg

Agreed. If you are saying tickets are overpriced, I don’t think you are paying attention to what is happening in the ticket market.

Sacto_J
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November 19, 2021 10:24 am
Reply to  AlRey

Why is no one giving the Napears this rebuttal?
Besides the fact that responding to them is like hugging a cactus…

rockbottom
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November 18, 2021 9:42 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Actually ESPN has the Kings higher in attendance than reality and math ! They have drawn 72000 for 6 home games but are credited with a 15000 average instead of 12000 ! That puts the Kings at 29 th ! Check it out !

Jman1949
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November 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

I posted the info below to explain the discrepancy. Perhaps you overlooked my reply to you:

”Here’s a link to another website with the same total and average attendance figures as reported by ESPN, but for 5 games, not 6:
http://www.insidehoops.com/attendance.shtml
As reflected in the box scores on the basketball-ref site, the discrepancy seems to result from no attendance figure being reported for the game against the Pelicans.”

Last edited 1 year ago by Jman1949
rockbottom
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November 19, 2021 11:05 am
Reply to  Jman1949

I did, thanks but do not believe there were 15000 fans at any of the 3 games I attended unless the G1 seats 25000 !

Jman1949
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November 19, 2021 12:57 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Reported attendance reflects ticket sales, not the number of fans actually in the arenas.

1951
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November 18, 2021 3:40 pm

The addition of the play-in stinks.

It rewards mediocrity as evidenced by all the stupid convos surrounding the Kings right now!

1951
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November 18, 2021 3:45 pm
Reply to  1951

I mean, seriously.

Think about how asininely stupid it is to be arguing with a straight face something to the effect of:

“Don’t worry. Things aren’t that bad. The Kings are right on track to be the 10th worst team in a conference of 15 teams!”

JackassCentral916
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November 18, 2021 3:47 pm
Reply to  1951

💯

Carl
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November 18, 2021 4:21 pm
Reply to  1951

If they make it, we *are* going to hear this argument. “We’re going to build on this for next season, where we’ll make the playoffs, blah blah blah.”

catterj
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November 18, 2021 4:30 pm
Reply to  1951

If they make it to 10th at the end of the season, Tim will tweet that they’re “at the 34th percentile in win percentage.” LOL

andy_sims
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November 18, 2021 4:10 pm
Reply to  1951

Honestly, other than the fact that it makes the regular season increasingly-irrelevant, and cheapens a tournament that over half the teams already got into, my main beef is that it provides bad teams with the opportunity to consider themselves as having achieved something significant.

YOU HAVEN’T.*

*If Houston makes the play-in, I’ll rethink it. That would actually be shocking.

I’m all done undermining my own shaky points now.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
November 18, 2021 4:58 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I too think it cheapens the regular season. It allows a team that is significantly worse get a game to “luck in” to the playoffs. All it takes is a rolled ankle and missed game by a star to let a 10th or 9th placed team sneak in as an 8th seed. What is the point of that if they are just going to get rolled by the #1 seed in four games who likely have upwards of twenty more wins than the play-in winner.

Case in point, if the 10th seed Kings at 35 wins get to play and beat the 9th seed Wolves who are missing KAT due to food poisoning, then get to play the 8th seed Grizz team who’s missing Morant due to a rolled ankle, does it mean anything if they go out in 4 games to the Jazz?

KingOfTheMonsters
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November 19, 2021 1:55 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I gave KAT that cheese burger, but I didn’t force him to eat it. I don’t know how he got food poisoning.

Gregoryl
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November 18, 2021 4:10 pm
Reply to  1951

This lame chase to make the play-in has set this franchise back years.

TerzoM
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November 18, 2021 3:49 pm

Play-In-Tournament-Suckers (P.I.T.S)comment image

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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November 19, 2021 8:55 am
Reply to  TerzoM

o_0

sonny
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November 18, 2021 3:53 pm

We are in the hunt for the play-in.
We are in the hunt for the playoffs.
We are in the hunt for a real coach.
We are in the hunt for good trades that will improve the team.
We are in the hunt for an All-Star caliber player or a true franchise player.
We are in the hunt for cheaper Arena seat prices.

and most of all,
We are in the hunt for a new and very good owner who doesn’t meddle with the FO
and will quickly learn from even one mistake in the past.

RobHessing
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November 18, 2021 3:57 pm

Apples to apples: Ca teams attendance:
GS – 100%, 18,064
LAL – 98.5, 18,784
SAC – 82.9, 14,584
LAC – 79.7, 15,196

To whatever end COVID is impacting ticket sales, it would appear that product quality is still a factor.

RobHessing
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November 18, 2021 4:04 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Expanding on this a bit, I have no doubt that every one of these teams has been impacted at the box office by COVID. But in the case of the Dubs, their season ticket sales and waiting list has outpaced any COVID-fueled absences. The Lakers have also been able to withstand it. The Kings of the early 2000s, they of the ten year waiting list, would have been able to withstand it.

Selling out of an empty wagon doesn’t cut it. Being the only game in town doesn’t cut it anymore. You have to have something to sell, and you have to bring value to the end user. The Kings simply are not presently providing a value-driven product, and they have not created a demand for tickets in well over a decade.

Nice arena, though.

KingOfTheMonsters
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November 19, 2021 8:50 am
Reply to  RobHessing

COVID will not stop me from seeing Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

Gregoryl
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November 18, 2021 4:08 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Necessary context here, thanks.

RobHessing
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November 18, 2021 4:12 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Also, the Kings are 23rd in overall percentage at 82.6%. This factors in attendance for their road games, of which I believe they get a slice. They are 27th in average total attendance.

Empty seats don’t lie.

Kosta
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November 18, 2021 5:09 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I CLEARLY REMEMBER MARK JONES TELLING THE VIEWERS THAT GOLDEN 1 CENTER WAS SOLD OUT DURING ONE RECENT BROADCAST.

I made an appointment with the eye doctor seconds later.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kosta
Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 18, 2021 5:14 pm
Reply to  Kosta

When you comp a bunch of unsold tickets at the 11th hour to uninterested local businesses, I guess you can technically call it a sell out. Good PR but a bad business model.

rockbottom
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November 18, 2021 9:48 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Kings are averaging 12000 per game ! Check ESPN attendance figures ! 6 games and 72000 does not add up to 15000 !

RobHessing
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November 19, 2021 8:27 am
Reply to  rockbottom

I went right off of this –

http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

RobHessing
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November 19, 2021 8:38 am
Reply to  rockbottom

At issue here appears to be no attendance numbers for the New Orleans game (I checked both ESPN and BBalReference and neither shows attendance figures). If you take the five games with reported attendance, it comes to 72,923, which averages out to 14,584.

Last edited 1 year ago by RobHessing
RobHessing
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November 19, 2021 8:49 am
Reply to  RobHessing

nba.com shows attendance for the Pels game at 12,480. So that would put the Kings at 6 games, 85,403 total attendance, 14,234 average. That would knock their attendance percentage down to 81%, but does not fundamentally change any of their rankings.

RobHessing
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November 19, 2021 8:58 am
Reply to  RobHessing

And 1 –

Now, what this does not take into consideration is season ticket holders that are not showing up, because there is no way in the world that the arena has ever been 81% full this season. And that has an absolute impact on food, beverage and merchandise $$$.

sonny
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November 18, 2021 3:59 pm

OOT:

This just in.

The steering committee of the planned NBA GMs Association is considering Vlade Divac as their honorary Chairman.

Gregoryl
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November 18, 2021 4:07 pm
Reply to  sonny

Does Peja get to tag along too??

andy_sims
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November 18, 2021 4:11 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Someone has to sit in strip clubs all day.

Kosta
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November 18, 2021 5:11 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It’s hard.

Carl
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November 18, 2021 4:24 pm
Reply to  sonny

The steering committee of the planned NBA GMs Association is considering Vlade Divac as their honorary Chairman.

I mean, Vlade gave so much to the league while he was GM. Literally. Vlade did more for the Dallas Mavericks than any GM since whoever drafted Dirk Nowitzki. Mark Cuban should buy the guy a Ferrari.

KingOfTheMonsters
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November 19, 2021 8:52 am
Reply to  sonny

Once you make it to the elite class, they tend to keep you there.

BasketballHella
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November 18, 2021 4:14 pm

The only issue I have is that the constant talking heads of “kangz media” have been elevating the 10th spot since last year. As far as I’m aware the play in is NOT the playoffs and any attempt to call it the playoffs is BULLSHIT.

This PSA is for you Vivek.

Carl
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November 18, 2021 4:16 pm

The Kings are on pace to win 33 games as of today. I know the team and its local media enablers will try to sell a 30-odd win, one time play-in appearance as the NBA championship, but I’m not buying it.

Just do the obvious thing and fire the coach and move some players in an effort to get better. I’d rather they try and fail then do nothing fail.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 18, 2021 5:12 pm
Reply to  Carl

I really think the 10th spot this year is going to be absolutely pathetic. There are too many very bad teams to make it a goal. Right now the Kings will basically be competing with the T-Wolves, OKC, and Spurs for the 10th seed (I feel the Grizz with be 9th). I think it is going to boil down to the Kings and Wolves, but the harsh reality is one of them could get it by winning an ugly 35 games. The 8th seed could very likely have a full 10 games on the 10th seed. In what world does that mean they should be playing each other come playoffs.

The play-in is just an anti-tank and money making measure that the league has put in place, and the forever late lottery purgatory Kings have bit into it full line and sinker.

AnybodyButBagley
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November 18, 2021 6:26 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

The Kings are the only team to purposely avoid tanking in order to lose the play in game.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 18, 2021 10:22 pm

Pretty much.

RikSmits
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November 19, 2021 10:44 am

To be fair, I think they would like to win the play in game.

AnybodyButBagley
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November 19, 2021 7:24 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Kangz…they want to win it but it is a likely loss.

Kosta
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November 18, 2021 5:13 pm
Reply to  Carl

33???

FRICKIN MASONS RUN THE KINGS!
comment image

Last edited 1 year ago by Kosta
EastSacChuck
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November 19, 2021 10:59 am
Reply to  Kosta

comment image

RikSmits
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November 18, 2021 10:19 pm
Reply to  Carl

Yeah, but doing the obvious and right thing threatens to bore Dearest De’Aaron, as evidenced by yesterday’s postgame quotes.

nonstripedzebra
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November 19, 2021 5:30 am
Reply to  Carl

I agree with Greg with the context of the teams historic failures needing to be upheld to their own set expectations. But I also think this is close to expectations. Luke is bad but this team isn’t a coach away from being assuringly in the playoffs. There are plenty of possible trades with this roster that are interesting but come with the chances of drastically rocking possible records. Be it garnering disgruntled stars, future assets or players that could aid a playoff push. There are plenty of choices, but when you are smack in the middle or those realities the most logical path is unclear.

The part of this that most resonates is everything with the Kings seeming to have ulterior motives. To the extent that Monte has held the playoffs as a measuring stick seems possibly appeasing an erratic owner, establishing grounds to fire Walton, or overhaul in failing in that goal. All reasons seeming far more believable than actually thinking the roster is good enough IMO. To the extent the Kings are obsessed with a playoff showing is motivated not by reasonable timeline and development but history and perception. All facilitated by an owner who is constantly in need of being appeased and indulged in his ideas, decisions and frugality.

Last edited 1 year ago by nonstripedzebra
Carl
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November 19, 2021 9:52 am

To the extent that Monte has held the playoffs as a measuring stick seems possibly appeasing an erratic owner, establishing grounds to fire Walton, or overhaul in failing in that goal.

Any of these are absolutely possible, and maybe even likely. But if knowingly failing the playoffs is the pretense for actually doing something about the team, McNair is likely going to be the guy held responsible for it, not the guy tasked with fixing it.

The simple answer is just to do what it takes to make the team better today, and then there’s no need to play games. Maybe that’s impossible with this owner, and then I guess you just collect your paycheck as long as you can and then blame him when you’re gone. But that’s a pretty hopeless scenario.

Last edited 1 year ago by Carl
bjax1
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November 18, 2021 5:18 pm

Kings last in attendance. At least that was one thing we had – great fans. Now we don’t even have that. I think most fans (myself included) are in the “guardedly optimistic” category – we’re not getting too excited about this team until we see a decent winning streak, maybe getting over .500, something like that. Right now, it just seems like that old Talking Heads song, “same as it ever was.” I was at the Pacers game a couple of weeks ago, and it was half-full on a Sunday afternoon. Crazy the current level of apathy.

BigDrewbot
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November 18, 2021 7:27 pm
Reply to  bjax1

I’d be freakin’ over the moon if the kings got to .500 ball – they haven’t done that since 2005-2006. How pathetic is it that a franchise can go 15 1/4 years without ONCE winning just half of its games? I mean it’s probably harder to do that win the damn championship.

Marty
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November 18, 2021 6:30 pm

I can’t imagine worrying about the 2021 Sacramento Kings.

Lowe and Pelton felt that the sense of worry in Sacramento may be a bit overblown.

02kingsfan
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November 18, 2021 8:37 pm

Honestly my goal as a kings fan is to have a competent ownership and front office. Don’t worry about the playoff because that will follow when you get the top leadership right. McNair is running out of time and I hope he makes good moves going forward, not merely “ok” moves. And lastly, get a real NBA-level coach please.

rockbottom
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November 18, 2021 9:54 pm
Reply to  02kingsfan

Nothing will change until Vivek is gone ! Change coaches, GM ‘s and players and the constant remains ! Rearranging deck chairs !

RikSmits
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November 19, 2021 10:54 am
Reply to  rockbottom

Be careful what you wish for. His likely succesor is Aneel…

BigDrewbot
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November 19, 2021 9:31 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

is it actually possible to be worse?

4on5
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November 18, 2021 10:56 pm

Die hard Kings fans and team employees are in a bubble regarding the 10th seed and they do not realize it.

The suburban person in Folsom that has to pay for tickets, Covid test the kids, drive, navigate under construction streets downtown, and and dodge way homeless people than before in route to the garage is not materially more likely to come to games in March if the Kings are the second worst among the 11 western conference teams trying to win games instead of the worst.

Moreover, it’s unclear how many players consistently get up to get 10th on a losing mess of a team, to secure about a 10% chance of making the playoffs, to play 4 or 5 games against the 1 seed. It’s not nothing. It’s also not necessarily what some fans think it is.

Not everyone lives or dies about a thing just because a niche group cares a lot.

4on5
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November 18, 2021 11:09 pm

The Kings have attendance issues with what remains of their season ticket base, which includes a lot of people that put in 2020 payments they viewed as a sunk cost and expecting to move several games for 80% of face to help defray. The are now eating about half to move lower seats before being asked to renew.

I think the odds that Vivek trades Fox for Simmons at some point to have something shiny to sell is probably 2/3.

ArcoThunder
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November 19, 2021 5:28 am

This is the problem with Monte not doing anything in the off-season outside of failing to finalize a Buddy trade to LA.

Had that trade gone through I don’t think the frustration or temperature around the recent losses to bad teams would be so high. You could actually believe that the team “hadn’t gelled yet”. There would be more patience is all I’m saying. With no significant changes this is what Monte gets. It’s essentially the same roster as last year and we are just watching the re run from last season. It’s shitty to watch. We can all agree on that. MAYBE the better backups/bench guys this season prevents two 9 game losing streaks by winning 1 of those nine? MAYBE. Should we be happy about that? Fuck no.

sadly I think the best move would be for Monte to trade Fox immediately. It stirs shit up, it gets the highest return that immediately implants hope and optimism. You still have three quality guards (two of which are on rookie deals). Any other trades that could happen in addition to trading Fox would be a bonus, not a necessity. I like Fox and wish trading him wasn’t the obvious move but to me it’s almost a no brainer at this point. Trade Fox for Siakam, Beal, McCollum, Sexton, Mikal Bridges, Wiseman, Porzingis, Brogdon and Turner or Simmons and we either stay as shitty but with new excitement and better ticket sales with optimism or it makes a big on court impact that might actually get the team to significantly play better and they claim the 7th seed. To me it’s a win no matter what which is sadly why I say Monte needs to trade Fox immediately. Watching the rerun for another 60 something games is going to suck and further alienate the fan base and further push the profit margin of ownership down down down down.

shake shit up! You can’t really go wrong at this point. Best way to shake it up is fire Puke and trade Fox.

Last edited 1 year ago by ArcoThunder
kings4ever
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November 19, 2021 6:43 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

We need to “shake shit up”, change for the sake of change, as if change for the sake of change cannot possibly dig you into a bigger hole? The French Lick Legend, aka the Caucasian Comet, said so on recent Pod because you think things cant get worse, think again. They can. I concur 100%. Case in point NOP.

I understand being pissed by the 1-3 trip, I am pissed too, but if the anger and frustration colors your decision making you are likely to do something regrettable, esp and including trading Fox for Sexton, Wisemann, Porzingis and even Simmons. I mean c’mon, you see the warts on our coach and players because of emotional investment, attention to detail and memory and melodrama, you don’t think aforementioned players have warts too, perhaps a lot more ?

Ben Simmons is scared to shoot and betrayed his team. Now he has “mental issues” that keep him from fullfilling his contractual obligation. Yeah, he sounds like the answer!

Mikal Bridges is a staple for the Suns, the elite role player, that they just resigned. He’s not going anywhere. He’s not tradeable anymore than HB is on the market. Maybe if you were not so wrapped up in emotion you could discern this. The Suns are not trading for a maxed out PG when they are paying CP3 100M and have Ayton as a RFA who they have to match on a likely max deal this summer.

So how are you to be taken seriously when you bring this kind of ideas and “remedies” to the table?

The Wizards aren’t trading Beal for Fox either, they have a Dream Season to start their year, and Beal loves playing for WAS.

As an aside, McGenius strikes again!

I was not a fan of the proposed Kuzma and Harrell for Buddy because I wanted THT and the #1 pick from LAL , and I also didn’t want to root for Kuzma. Kuzma is a bricklayer with a quick trigger, but he does excellent size and agility. He and Harrell have been a big part of the resurgence there, thereby validating the vision that McGenius had when he tried to deal for these two guys for Buddy Chucks It.

THT, the player I was coveting last summer, who I identified as having star potential, is currently averaging 23 / 7 in his 5 games back on 40% from 3s on 7 per game. Woo!

Anyway, Fox for Siakam, now you have my attention. I love Siakam. He’s great! I love Fox too, but I also love Davion, and I do not like the idea that Davion does not have a clear path to 30-35 MPG, which he needs, but is difficult to allocate with the roster as currently consistituted.

Given that Buddy has limited value, Marvin has negative value, the question that needs to be asked by the fans, and currently being asked by the FO, is who among Ty, Fox, and Davion are the “least untouchable”, who would you reluctantly put on the trade table to get the help you need and balance the roster optimally, make that homerun acquisition to save the season and catapult you for seasons to come?

You know how great TOR would be if they added Davion? That would be great for them with what they are trying to do. He is the younger Kyle Lowry they need. Ty would be good fit as well. Fox is actually NOT the player they need because of his shooting issues and less than stellar reputation as a defender. I can see a trade for Siakam centered around Davion and Buddy being proposed by TOR with McGenius countering with Ty replacing Davion in the blockbuster.

Ty is a great player, but needs to be more aggressive looking for his points and do better job with his on-the-ball defense. Ty is a connector and a winner, you cannot go wrong with him but you have to give to get. So if I am choosing which of the three guards I will reluctantly choose to trade (Fox, Ty or Davion), I have to go with Ty. And if Ty can get us Siakam, I am doing that deal.

The beauty of this trade, besides Siakam being a great player, a dawg, with untapped go-to offensive potential out of the block AND face up, left an right hand dexterity, big as Holmes is that he opens up 30-35 MPG for Davion. Davion will help unleash the brilliance of Fox more so than Ty , playing the same tempo while shouldering more of the defensive load. Siakam helps Fox to bear the burden offensively with his 25 PPG repertoire while Davion helps Fox bear the burden defensively.

The drawback to this deal is that you are trading an undervalued contract in Ty (plus Buddy and Marvin) for a maxed out player in Siakam, due 100M over the next three seasons. Is this a barrier to the deal with the financial consequences, I do not know but I know it would make the team one helluva team, especially if we do a coaching change simultaneous with the deal.

Carl
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November 19, 2021 9:56 am
Reply to  kings4ever

We need to “shake shit up”, change for the sake of change, as if change for the sake of change cannot possibly dig you into a bigger hole?

It’s not change for the sake of change if you’re on your third season in a row of the same roster winning 35 games. I do agree that something like a Fox for Porzingis trade would be idiotic. You have to make a change you think will make the team better. The thing that won’t make the team better is doing nothing.

Last edited 1 year ago by Carl
KingOfTheMonsters
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November 19, 2021 9:59 am
Reply to  kings4ever

Re: Kuzma and Harrell — I thought they would have added depth to the Kings and balance out the roster, but, you said it, they gave Washington the depth and stability the team needed to shine. Fun team to watch. Sad, the Kings did not get them. Lakers suck.
Re: Proposal for Siakam. That’s a tough one, but I see your logic. If I am the Raptors, I’d want Ty over Fox. Of the three guards, I would rather keep Ty and Davion. I realize the team loves Fox, but things seem to slow down when he has the ball, which is ironic considering speed is his chief advantage.
Ty needs to be less shy on his shooting. I think that will come. Davion looks special to me. He seems smart but in need of experience.
Siakam would be great.
I agree with you on not wanting Simmons. To me that is another shit show waiting to happen.

ArcoThunder
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November 19, 2021 11:27 am
Reply to  kings4ever

For the record, I wasn’t implying that the kings should trade Fox for Sexton straight up just as an example from my comment you replied to. Sexton could be the piece you take back in addition to 1 or 2 first round picks. Just shooting from the hip here with that but my point is trading fox gets you the biggest return and that’s something of gigantic value for this franchise at this point. And at this point, yeah… I do think you stir shit up, you need to stir shit up. If it gets worse than so be it, at least you tried. And if you get worse then you get a better draft pick next year and maybe that’s the difference maker? I’m not hard fast on any of the ideas I threw out there. It was definitely just throwing shit against the wall because somehow, some way this needs a big change!

you know as well as everyone in here that what we had last year which is the same thing we have this year is NOT WORKING.

your trade ideas are good too. Personally though, having TY and Mitchell being your starting guards on rookie contracts with the return you can get for Fox improves the team significantly while allowing flexibility financially to build off of.

good talk.

Last edited 1 year ago by ArcoThunder
AmateurNerd
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November 19, 2021 6:59 am

Shout it from the rooftops: “The play-in is not the playoffs.” You can bet this organization and its media friends will do all they can to spin a 10th-place finish and a loss in a play-in game as a success: “Look, we broke the playoff drought!” No, you did not. The first round of the playoffs is a best-of-7 series, nothing else. Heck by the standards of play-in game admission, the Kings broke their playoff drought under Dave Joerger 3 seasons ago! You can’t lower the bar, clear the bar, and then claim you became a better jumper. (Side note: We see this all the time in my field [education], where graduation rates and passing rates magically increase, and school administration touts its success in improving student performance… then you realize the rates went up because the standards for graduating/passing were just lowered. No real improvement occurred. Sshh, don’t tell the parents/fans.)

Sacto_J
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November 19, 2021 7:33 am

“…highlighting…a good offense”
Clearly neither of those guys actually watches the games. There is nothing good about this offense, especially when we forget to run the pick and roll consistently.

Sacto_J
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November 19, 2021 10:29 am
Reply to  Greg

Which amazes me, because I actually watch the games and the fact they get points at all with Walton’s shitty high screen / dribble hand off 2 man motion offense while everyone waits for something to happen play.
Minny rightfully feasted off that play all night Wednesday. I don’t know how its possible to feature that garbage offense and be rated highly in any offensive statistic, advanced or otherwise. I used to hate the 1-4 flat but this play is even worse.

SexyNapear
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November 19, 2021 9:26 am

I blame the Lakers. Taking Westbrook instead of Hield.

How much better would the Kings look right now with Kuzma and Harrell

RobHessing
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November 19, 2021 9:32 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

And how much better would the Lakers look with Hield? Well, at least Bradley Beal is happy!

Gregoryl
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November 19, 2021 9:53 am
Reply to  RobHessing

That crew is lost without LBJ. That is a team that truly shows you how much certain “superstars” can’t thrive on their own.

Carl
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November 19, 2021 10:05 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

How much better would the Kings look right now with Kuzma and Harrell

Frankly, I don’t think they’d be any better at all. I think they would be the same or worse. Kuzma isn’t good, but he is an improvement on offense over Harkless. That being said, Kuzma is average to inefficient, and he may be taking shots from better players. Harrell would have nowhere to play, and Buddy has probably been the difference in two wins this season.

To me, that trade was always about dumping salary, and not talent, and that’s OK. That financial flexibility has value. But the Kings weren’t going to be better long-term with Harrell and Kuzma and I don’t think they’d be better so far this season.

Last edited 1 year ago by Carl
RobHessing
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November 19, 2021 10:23 am
Reply to  Carl

You may be right, especially as it pertains to Hield. However…

If the deal goes through you have Holmes and Harrell manning the middle. That’s 12 fouls and a lot of attitude per 48 minutes. And Harrell has been a revelation in Washington. And the deal negates the need to trade for Tristan Thompson, and with Hield gone retaining Delon Wright might make a little more sense.

The presence of Kuzma takes Harkless and Metu largely off the floor, and that has been a bit of a gaping hole. A Holmes/Kuzma/Barnes front line would be appreciably better than what the Kings have been able to start on the front line.

On the other hand, this trade could have made the Kings more reliant on Terence Davis, and that is a bit scary.

Bottom line, given the state of this team I would have liked that deal.

Carl
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November 19, 2021 11:54 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Agree that I’d have no real complaints about the deal. I’m not convinced it would have made team better on talent, but there’s certainly that possibility, and improvement isn’t going to happen leaving the roster intact year after year.

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