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Ben Simmons is a great buy-low candidate for the Kings

Ben Simmons might be available this summer, and it's a risk worth taking for Sacramento.

The Philadelphis 76ers lost Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals last night, and in the process (pardon the pun) Ben Simmons destroyed fan's opinions of him. Simmons took just four shots the entire game, including passing up an open shot right at the rim in the closing minutes of the fourth quarter. After the game, Joel Embiid even seemed the throw Simmons under the bus:

Simmons was reportedly made available in James Harden trade talks at the beginning of the season, and now with this playoff failure it seems unlikely that Simmons returns to Philly next season. Simmons' trade value has also never been lower.

And that's why I think it's the perfect time for the Sacramento Kings to trade for him.

First things first, I wouldn't want the Kings to make any trade involving De'Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton, and I also wouldn't want to include this year's draft pick if the Kings jump in the lottery.

There are a number of ways the Kings could mix and match salaries to make a deal work, depending on what Philadelphia would want. Obviously the Kings should be willing to give both Marvin Bagley and Buddy Hield. I personally think Hield would be a really good fit on a team with so many good defenders. But the Sixers may not be interested in either player.

Another possibility would be Harrison Barnes, Delon Wright, and draft picks. Neither Barnes nor Wright are stars, but both could help Philadelphia's offense without harming their defense, and might work better as supporting pieces around Embiid. It would ultimately come down to how Philadelphia valued the draft assets, and what other offers the Sixers received. It seems unlikely that Sacramento would have the best offer (a Simmons and CJ McCollum swap seems to make a ton of sense for both sides).

But even if the Kings were the best offer, I know there are many of you that still wouldn't want Simmons. And I get it. Simmons' flaws are prolific. Simmons possesses an unhealthy combination of being unwilling to shoot threes, being shy about taking shots at the rim in a big moment, and just a general inability to shoot from the floor or the free throw line.

So yes, I absolutely acknowledge the ways that Simmons can hurt a team.

But only focusing on a player's flaws can make you overlook the other ways they help. For starters, Simmons is an elite defensive player. He's 6'11" with the ability to guard guards or wings. And not just the ability to stay in front of them, but the ability to be a shutdown defender. For the Kings, who finished last in the league in defensive rating, adding an elite defender would be huge.

Simmons contributes in other ways as well. He's an insanely good passer, and a very strong rebounder. He contributes on a high level in every way other than scoring.

If the Kings added Simmons, who is still just 24 years old, there would be concerns about floor spacing, but the Kings would have the ability to run set with Fox, Haliburton, and Simmons all being able to attack a defense and then pass out. You'd obviously need to ensure the remainder of the roster had some shooting to help cover both Fox and Simmons, but the talent level of the Kings would be drastically improved.

The Kings need an infusion of talent, and Simmons would be that despite his shooting woes. It's a risk, but it's a risk the Kings should take.

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1951
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June 21, 2021 10:47 am

Ben Simmons is like Democracy: he is the worst choice except for all the rest.

SMF-PDXConnection
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June 21, 2021 11:39 am
Reply to  1951

Does that make the Kings the USA?

We’ll do the right thing only after exhausting all other options?

NorCalKingsFan
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June 21, 2021 10:52 am

Timely article. Absolutely agree that now is the time to try to poach Simmons, but there are probably better offers. Turner, McCollum, Brown, or Okc picks

Amonk81
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June 21, 2021 10:52 am

He’d be useless in Sac because he needs to be surrounded with shooters, needs the ball and Kings are too dumb to use Simmons correctly.

1951
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June 21, 2021 10:55 am
Reply to  Amonk81

To be fair, the Kings are too dumb to maximize the talents of any flawed player, so that’s not how I analyze potential acquisitions.

And make no mistake, whoever the Kings acquire will have flaws and need an NBA competent level of coaching and roster/game planning.

Amonk81
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June 21, 2021 10:57 am
Reply to  1951

Agree/good point. Until Vivek backs off and Kings get a real coach it’s all Titanic deck chair rearrangement.

BabalooMagoo
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June 21, 2021 12:31 pm
Reply to  1951

Then we’re screwed…

1951
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June 21, 2021 1:11 pm
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

Most likely for another few years, yes.

BabalooMagoo
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June 21, 2021 4:19 pm
Reply to  1951

I’m running out of years.

cloudyeyes
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June 21, 2021 1:23 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

We already have one in Haliburton. We could also use the draft pick on a big shooter like Kai Jones if we keep our #9 or slide to #10.

RikSmits
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June 21, 2021 10:52 am

I’d trade Fox and filler for Simmons and Maxey/Thybulle and hand the reigns to Haliburton with Simmons in a Bam role.

Amonk81
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June 21, 2021 10:53 am
Reply to  RikSmits

That might work. Simmons really needs to be in Dramond Green role.

andy_sims
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June 21, 2021 11:04 am
Reply to  Amonk81

Then let’s just get Draymond Green.

SMF-PDXConnection
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June 21, 2021 11:09 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Let’s get both. That’s something I’d be interested in seeing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygrolm2c

andy_sims
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June 21, 2021 11:40 am

We might need to give each of the other teams a protected first-rounder, since we’d be getting the two best players involved.

SMF-PDXConnection
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June 21, 2021 11:48 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I’ll do you one better.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzm6y7zk

Vivek always wants to zag when everyone zigs, I give you the All Kings Non Shooting Team. This truly might be the worst trade anyone’s ever shared here.

richie88
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June 21, 2021 11:57 am

Gah!

RikSmits
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June 21, 2021 11:15 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Could he be available?

I’d do a legkick of joy if we could get him.

andy_sims
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June 21, 2021 11:03 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I don’t think that there’s any possibility that Maxey or Thubulle are included unless we include Haliburton.

Marty
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June 21, 2021 11:10 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Yea they kinda need to find their PG of the future and they are VERY high on Maxey. It’s been described many times from locals that he’s a film/student junkie, and is one of the hardest workers behind the scenes on the team. He might be worth keeping.

RikSmits
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June 21, 2021 11:13 am
Reply to  Marty

He’s alive!
Marty, how are you?
Did you like how Embiid and Doc threw Simmons under the bus, and then backed up again over him?
And why does Tobias Harris, who was utterly mediocre these play-offs, catch almost no heat?

Marty
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June 21, 2021 11:27 am
Reply to  RikSmits

So many questions. I’ve been on the other thread.

I’m fine. The team ended the season exactly where I thought they would, a top 4 team. So there’s pretty much no emotion with the way things ended; Embiid hurt and a perimeter team exploiting their weaknesses.

I don’t have any problems with what was said last night. I’m a pretty open book and tough conversations aren’t the end of the world. Imagine playing a center, who can’t center? Probably be some stress.

Ben has led a very privileged BB life, so welcome to adulthood Ben.

Tobias Harris needs an open floor which is why he played so much this year on the second unit when Embiid sits. Scaredy-Ben hands Harris the ball with Embiid down low clogging the lane, and then Ben’s man helps to double Harris, well that is a heck of a way to utilize a skilled driver like Harris. Major organizational flaw there.

Building around Embiid has been very impactful on others, no doubt. It’s not the way I would build in today’s NBA but it is what it is. The season was fun and the Sixers stayed healthy, but IMHO playing a back to basket C in today’s game is a death sentence.

RikSmits
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June 21, 2021 11:16 am
Reply to  Marty

And one; wouldn’t Fox be their PG of the now and the future?

Dub_TC
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June 21, 2021 10:55 am

My hope: with Simmons on the block (if he truly is) it would take one more team out of the running for either of the Pacers bigs, or CJ McCollum. If someone gives up the farm for Simmons, my hope if that it would help the Kings get Turner somehow.

andy_sims
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June 21, 2021 11:01 am

I’m with you on the main concept, as well as the scenarios for what the Kings would give up. I think a combination of Barnes or Hield + Bagley feels fair, but could see parting with this year’s pick if it doesn’t move up considerably. Both options give Philly some flexibility as they can audition Bagley for a year with no additional commitment, and Barnes and Hield would both provide the Sixers with useful skill sets with that roster.

I think that Simmons probably needs some kind of help for the larger problem of passing up on wide open looks as he did yesterday, and what appears to be his fear of shooting in general. He’ll never be even a good shooter, but if he can get to the place where he takes the looks he gets in the paint, he could absolutely contribute. It’s weird that the Kings have better floor-spreaders than Philly, but even if Hield goes out, I think we’d still have enough to provide room for Simmons to get into the paint to shoot or kick out.

This is the big swing we’ve discussed, and even though Simmons wouldn’t be my first choice, if he can be had on a reasonable trade deal, I think you have to do it.

Besides, if anyone can fix Ben Simmons, it’s Luke Walton.

1951
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June 21, 2021 11:11 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Besides, if anyone can fix Ben Simmons, it’s Luke Walton.

Bravo!
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nonstripedzebra
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June 21, 2021 11:15 am
Reply to  andy_sims

The shooting in say threes has always been overblown. But the free throws is where its disasterous considering his ability to get to the rim. He in theory could generate league high atempts at the line. Assume he could convert 70+%, he could be generating more efficient offense in either a finish or foul.

The fix is obvious to me but avoided by everyone. The Granny. Some might scoff but at some point I expect teams with at or below 65% FT shooters to implement the style with players. In Simmons case it might be the difference of him being allowed usage or being a net negative designated to 2nd units by his prime. If he hit the Rick Barry tape and worked on it he honestly could be a different player.

Last edited 1 year ago by nonstripedzebra
andy_sims
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June 21, 2021 11:43 am

I think that any player below 65% should be required to shoot them that way. Your team needs points, to hell with your pride, make a god damned free throw.

SuperShaka
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June 21, 2021 2:48 pm

He could just try shooting free throws with his dominant hand first.

2018DraftTimeMachine
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June 22, 2021 2:37 pm
Reply to  SuperShaka

Tristan Thompson: “Hold my beer”

richie88
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June 21, 2021 12:13 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I don’t think Philly would accept a trade of Bagley & either Barnes or Hield for Simmons unless the Kings include their 1st rounder (& I’d be fine w/trading it if the Kings don’t move up) or Philly fires Morey & hires Vlade.

Last edited 1 year ago by richie88
eddie41
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June 21, 2021 12:17 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Offer them Buddy Hield and Bagley for Simmons.

SelecaoKOJ
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June 21, 2021 4:45 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Philly will hang up swiftly. Hali and or Fox and this years pick at a minimuum. Then, maybe, Philly Bites.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 21, 2021 6:59 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

That is a horrible trade if it includes this year’s 1st AND Fox or Hali. IMO, that is Vlade-level awful.

eddie41
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June 22, 2021 12:33 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

If they have interest in Buddy Hield, they don’t hang up. If they do hang up, then they don’t have interest in Buddy and all of last year’s rumors were BS. Why would you trade Fox or Haliburton? I think your priorities are out of whack.

GFunkClassic
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June 21, 2021 11:27 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I would do it for a package around Buddy and Barnes…but I think adding Bagley is too steep.

nonstripedzebra
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June 21, 2021 11:04 am

The intention of looking for a deprecciated lottery asset is a worthy idea for this team abstractly. But my hesitations with Simmons specifcally are massive considering how specifiic of a player he is. There are strengths but the makeover some suggests he could have as a playmaking four go against most tendencies I have seen him demonstrate in halfcourt offense. Cut that with our best players tendencies on ball and us not possessing shotmakers or players who even attract gravity and you begin to have real problems.

I am not completely out on Simmons elsewhere, and wouldnt be shocked if he stumbles into a good siituation. Him on the Magic comes to mind with big wings who can get in transition or spot up for him where his usage wont be as costly. But he also seems very unaware of how specific of a player he is which is the real worry.

One thing I have always though that i think could drastically alter his stock would be underhand free throws. There have been few better cases than him to adopt the strategy. An improvement at the line would recontexttualize almost his entire game, and give him so much more leeway. At some point the granny will begin to be implemented and I would give him huge props if he did. A fix to a lot of his problems is right there.

richie88
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June 21, 2021 12:20 pm

Simmons has a major flaw on offense, but he would really help the Kings on defense & the Kings had 1 of the worst defenses in NBA history last season.

SPTSJUNKIE
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June 21, 2021 1:00 pm
Reply to  richie88

And even his flaws on offense were magnified this series and he got into his own head after shooting FTs in the playoffs far worse than he has in past seasons or playoff series.

And while he has offensive issues, he’s not Thybulle. He’s still a fantastic penetrator and has tremendous vision. Even in his bad offensive game, he still had 13 assists and only 2 turnovers.

I could 100% see him helping to get better looks for our shooters and big men, while also serving as a defensive weapon like we haven’t had for a very long time.

Right now, fans are way, way too low on Simmons. If Morey wants to trade him, we should 100% be calling with an offer right now. The man is just 24 years old and still improving.

richie88
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June 21, 2021 2:00 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

According to Philly fans, he’s stagnating (though I think a stagnant version of Simmons would still improve the Kings if they don’t trade Fox or Hali to get him).

SPTSJUNKIE
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June 21, 2021 2:04 pm
Reply to  richie88

He has improved, but I would point out that improvement and player development is not always linear.

It can be up and down or players can appear to peak and then hit another upswing.

Maybe Simmons has essentially peaked, but I would be very interested in betting on a 24 year old with his gifts, who just got publicly humiliated (and traded if we acquired him) and now has a massive chip on his shoulder.

I don’t personally know Simmons or his personality, but this feels like the recipe for putting in the work to make another leap.

richie88
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June 21, 2021 2:08 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

I wouldn’t bet for or against a leap, but I’d bet that he’d help the Kings if they trade for him.

1951
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June 21, 2021 11:15 am

Trade machine deal for Simmons works:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yetsgnyd 

Otis
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June 21, 2021 11:28 am
Reply to  1951

Hollinger’s analysis: +13 wins (+30 wins if you replace Luke Walton)

OG_Aggie
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June 21, 2021 11:35 am

It’s the sort of deal the kings have to make, right? Not necessarily this deal, but something along these lines. I would hope Hines could make him at least non-negative on offense, which would make getting him a huge win.

eddie41
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June 21, 2021 11:47 am

I’d look into it. Although, I’m not sure how it would work in trades or roster construction. I don’t like the proposal suggested in the article (Barnes plus Wright AND draft picks plural?!!) we’d be getting fleeced.

MaybeNextYear
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June 21, 2021 12:02 pm

At the risk of making the entire sub hate me€¦ (a pick or two is needed going out)

03BE4EB9-ED17-4E0A-93D6-292D4794E912.jpeg
richie88
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June 21, 2021 12:03 pm
Reply to  MaybeNextYear

SMF-PDX created a far worse trade.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 12:03 pm

For the Fox for Simmons debaters.

Alot of fans have said that this team should stop pushing for playoff moves and start pushing for championship moves. Especially via the draft to build long term by tanking to get better prospects. And I do agree with the tank, but that’s not happening.

And of course with Fox we are not guaranteed nor are we close to even sniffing the playoffs or a championship, but still

How does trading Fox for Simmons set up a foundation for a championship, when

A) When it comes to playoff time, Simmons has proven that he cannot be trusted to stay on the floor when it matters most.
B) Fox looks more like the guards who play well in the playoffs year after year, get closer to winning titles, and fit today’s NBA
C) John Wall (Fox’s biggest comp so far) has gotten as far as Ben Simmons has in their first 5 years in the playoffs.

Obviously Fox will prove me right or wrong when the team finally does make the playoffs but Fox for Simmons just seems like a redundant move for this team in terms of results, but Fox fits what today’s NBA team building looks like way more.

For those who say Simmons can lead this team to the playoffs while Fox can’t, Simmons started his career with an All-Star Embiid. Give Fox an All-Star too then judge.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kangz_Landing
Otis
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June 21, 2021 12:21 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

I don’t see getting Simmons as a championship move, just an upgrade.

And I think your points are definitely subjective, and focused on what Simmons can’t do while ignoring what Fox can’t do (or hasn’t been able to do to this point). I’m not sold that Fox’s “style” on offense will translate in the playoffs, but hopefully we’ll find out in the next few seasons.

The four teams remaining in the NBA playoffs are the 6th, 8th, 9th and 18th rated teams in defense in the league. If we’re talking about what team building looks like in the modern game, it isn’t just about offense.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 12:35 pm
Reply to  Otis

Everyone says not to focus on what Ben can’t do but on what he can do, but honestly we do that for every player. We focus on Buddy’s lack of everything but don’t focus on his shooting. We focus on Barnes’ propensity to disappear and his plain averageness, but don’t focus on his leadership, steadiness, IQ in taking only good shots.

Finally, we focus on Fox’s lack of defense, shot selection and free throw shooting but don’t focus on his elite speed, ability to score one-v-one, get to the foul line, his 7.2 assists per game (remember that) and most importantly his confidence and willingness to take the team on his back which is what we praise true All-Stars for.

We do that for every player, what I’m saying is what Fox does well, Ben doesn’t do well and what Ben does do well, Fox doesn’t do well, so that’s kind of a reciprocal trade ain’t it? Not an upgrade in my mind because I’d take the confident player over the unconfident player in a heartbeat.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kangz_Landing
Otis
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June 21, 2021 12:39 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Finally, we focus on Fox’s lack of defense, shot selection and free throw shooting 

Do we, to the extent that we’re focusing on Simmons’ negatives? Not in my opinion. I’d say his positives are HEAVILY talked about around here.

And you left out the fact that Fox’s team has been better with him off the floor, both in win/loss record and NetRating. While that speaks somewhat to the team around him, it also speaks a bit to his potential ceiling.

Not an upgrade in my mind because I’d take the confident player over the unconfident player in a heartbeat.

I think the confident/unconfident thing is a bit silly. I’d take the basketball player that makes the team better.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 1:39 pm
Reply to  Otis

To start off with your last statement. Would you take Simmons or Trae Young? Simmons over Mitchell? Simmons over KAT? Simmons over Booker? Because all of those guys were scorers who do not win unless they have great players around them, have not improved their teams win % when they were rebuilding, do not have great defensive reputations and they have always been extremely confident scorers. Simmons makes the team better as you said, but I would take everyone else over him.

And yes, fans love to point out Fox’s flaws which is why I don’t understand how the best player that we have drafted since DeMarcus Cousins, probably the 2nd best player we have drafted this whole millenuim, the player that we call our own, that we have developed onto an almost all star this year, is so easily being thrown into trade talks for a guy who just had the worst choke job (next to LeBron) and worst playoff shooting series in NBA history. And just so I don’t get accused of overreacting, Ben Simmons has not proven that he’s in any form a leader who can lead this Kings team to play defense or lead them out of this rebuild. He’s soft and his performance just proved it.

I acknowledge Fox’s flaws, but my main point is he’s not the problem on this team. U keep pointing out that the team is better record wise, that doesn’t mean he’s the main problem on this team.

Finally, don’t think that the players around the league don’t see Ben Simmons in a lesser light now too. Even Embiid called him out. They barked big time to PG13 this year, just wait till next season.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kangz_Landing
Otis
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June 21, 2021 1:42 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Frankly, the language you use regarding Simmons shows that you’re not capable of being swayed.

Simmons plays defense. Fox doesn’t. But Simmons is soft. Ok then.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 1:52 pm
Reply to  Otis

Lol I don’t need to be swayed and I’m not trying to sway you either because you sound like you can’t be swayed in my opinion as I sound like I can’t be swayed in your opinion. I accept that here in this community 😂

I’m not trying to sway a person in these chats because that never happens so I’m just presenting my reasoning against other reasonings.

And we’ve had many discussions about Fox and you know my position and I know yours so honestly this is where it gets fun in my opinion.

I respect your opinions sir, nothing wrong with a little heated argument either. We’re all fans of the same team lol

Last edited 1 year ago by Kangz_Landing
Otis
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June 21, 2021 1:58 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Nah, I respect yours as well, and again – I don’t think a deal would be without risk.

Maybe Fox has a higher ceiling than I’m seeing – but this “leap” he made this season was mostly imaginary.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 2:12 pm
Reply to  Otis

I can see your pov because while his stats went up the team results and team efficiency stats did not go up.

The main thing I wanted to see from Fox was a confidence to shoot the 3, because if he didn’t at least let it fly then players and teams would pounce on that and sag off. Also, a willingness to be THE GUY and look for his own shot against any defender because that showed that he knew no one could stop him. I think in that last Joerger year he was great but often gave the ball up too much and thats when guys like Draymond and KD and Kyrie spoke to him after games.

Those are superstar characteristics that I wanted to see him develop. And overall I think he did, especially in the games that he did actually lead us to wins. I think his true value will show when he gets a better cast much like these young guards shining rn in the playoffs.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 1:55 pm
Reply to  Otis

I meant mental softness.

Playing defense doesn’t constitute toughness, because Ben can play defense but he’s still mentally soft. You don’t completely pass on an open layup like he did if you’re strong mentally.

Otis
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June 21, 2021 1:57 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Playing defense doesn’t constitute toughness

I disagree. Playing good team defense takes physical toughness and mental acuity.

But I’m done with the “soft” discussion and it’s implications. It’s nonsensical. I suspect many people would think Fox is soft because he apparently saw last season as a success, and is satisfied with a “friendly” coach over a tougher guy like Joerger.

Last edited 1 year ago by Otis
Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 2:14 pm
Reply to  Otis

😂 I know you’re done, but I do have to ask the question then.

How do you label the mental toughness of this current Kings team this past season?

As Charles Barkley would say, they were soft as Charmin.

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June 21, 2021 12:38 pm
Reply to  Otis

So do you believe Fox is a complete lost cause on defense? So put an actual team of defenders around him and he wouldn’t step up to the challenge?

Because I see Ben being a complete lost cause on offense. He is what he is. If he proves me wrong then awesome, I hope he does because I’d love to see Ben with a jumper, I want to root for guys not see them fail, but as of now Ben looks like he’ll never attempt jump shots confidently at all.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kangz_Landing
Otis
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June 21, 2021 12:45 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

I won’t say that Fox couldn’t be a part of a good team defense, but it’s certainly questionable at this point.

If your offense needs Simmons to score 25 per game, or make a three with the game on the line then yes – I guess he’d be considered a “lost cause”. But he’s statistically been a positive at that end of the floor during his tenure in Philadelphia.

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June 21, 2021 1:26 pm
Reply to  Otis

Because he only shoots from close range… of course his TSP% and FG% is gonna be a positive.

And the regular season is so free flowing that it looks great.

But the meat arrives in the playoffs and what we just saw something so rotten…

Also, disagree on Fox being questionable to improve on D, 1st of all if Fox handles his business on O then D won’t be an issue if he has the right pieces around him, just ask Trae and Booker. 2nd, he’s 23, not saying he’s gonna he elite, but come on, he’s gonna get better as the team improves around him.

Otis
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June 21, 2021 1:39 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Because he only shoots from close range€¦ of course his TSP% and FG% is gonna be a positive.

No, when I say he’s been a positive at that end of the floor, I mean that Philly has been better offensively with him on the floor, regardless of how he shoots the ball from the perimeter or the line.

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June 21, 2021 1:48 pm
Reply to  Otis

Well I never said he was a negative because I know his benefits, he can pass and move the ball and yes his close range scoring is efficient, but my argument was that he himself is a lost cause. Individually as a scorer.

He can make a positive impact but did you just see the negative he had in this series. And it’s not just gonna be this series, if he doesn’t improve individually then he’s always gonna be a liability in big playoff series against smart teams. That’s where it really matters. I’m not talking about the regular season.

How can you consider him a positive when they did hack-a-Ben strategy and that let the Hawks win game 5? And then he was so scared to even shoot for the last 4 games of this series?

Otis
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June 21, 2021 1:55 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

I think those are the things that make Simmons potentially available, and I’d also say that his coaching staff may not be helping him in that regard.

Simmons had some noticeably ugly moments in the playoffs, certainly. Yet overall he’s still been a net positive during the playoffs.

I totally get it – you value the micro over the macro. My point is that if Philly management values the micro over the macro, maybe you could get Simmons plus assets back (in the case of dealing Fox).

Then the overall roster would look a little more balanced in Sacramento.

I’m not saying this would be a move without risk. There’s risk in any trade, especially when you’re talking high end players. And if you could get Simmons without dealing Fox, I’d be down with that. But if it does take Fox, I’d be ok with McNair pursuing a potential deal.

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June 21, 2021 1:59 pm
Reply to  Otis

And that’s a perfectly valid point.

Because in my mind Fox and Hali are untouchable. Why are we giving up on Fox when A) he’s shown improvement every year and B) we haven’t put another all star with him?

And I think Fox’s type of style is more valuable than Simmons’ play style in today’s NBA. Those are my two main arguments and I’m sticking by them.

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June 21, 2021 2:06 pm
Reply to  Otis

On micro and macro, I think that’s the difference between Championship teams and playoff teams.

And definitely the difference between playoff teams and bad teams.

Micro = focused winners
Macro = carefree losers

My verbiage is a little strong but I hope u get what I mean. Winning teams care about the winning details and The Kings don’t care about anything so they’re macro.

Otis
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June 21, 2021 2:09 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

You think successful teams focus on smaller sample sizes? Huh.

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June 21, 2021 2:18 pm
Reply to  Otis

No, successful teams care about the micro as in micromanaging the details for winning basketball.

While bad teams care about the macro, as in making Golden1 center and the Kings the most cutting edge building and progressive sports team in the world.

oshima9
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June 21, 2021 3:38 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

“So do you believe Fox is a complete lost cause on defense? So put an actual team of defenders around him and he wouldn’t step up to the challenge?”

He’s played 4 years in the league if one includes the bubble year, and hasn’t shown any significant improvement. Nor does he seem motivated to improve. He shouldn’t need a team of defenders to get him to play defense, this is what people said about Jimmer Fredette, he needs a good team around him.

So, I guess my answer is, no, he wouldn’t.

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June 21, 2021 5:50 pm
Reply to  oshima9

I’ve never heard that said about Jimmer ever, I might have missed that. I only ever heard, Jimmer was never going to be a good defender and I agreed.

Anyway, not expecting Fox to be a stopper by any means but yea Trae, Devin, and KAT suddenly look acceptable on defense with better players around them, so better talent motivates more. That’s an observational fact, so just saying before you judge, let’s give Fox a real team.

oshima9
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June 21, 2021 8:46 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

It is a little confusing, I admit. The analogy was more general. Fredette needed 4 good players around him to be a good, high scoring NBA player. I heard that a lot from his fanboys. Fox apparently needs 4 other good defensive players to be a passable NBA defender.

SPTSJUNKIE
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June 21, 2021 1:03 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

A) When it comes to playoff time, Simmons has proven that he cannot be trusted to stay on the floor when it matters most.

I don’t think this has been proven at all. It’s happened to him in a series and while it certainly is a data point, I would not write off a 24 year old player or assume he will never be able to improve upon his play in this series.

I mean he was sure on the floor in crunch time of the 76ers wins over the Wizards.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 1:20 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

The Wizards are not on the same level as the Hawks, what?!?!? And there were like 2 close games in that series?

Also I’m not just talking about this series and him just being on the floor, because yea he can be on the court but he’s not a threat in crunch time and 4 straight 4th quarters where he took ZERO shots combined doesn’t prove anything? Yes he can improve but until he proves it wrong, it has been PROVEN already that he gets benched on offense in the late 4th because of lack of FT and shooting. If it happened right before our eyes, how is that not proof?

Also, his last series in 2019 was against the Raptors and he stood in the corner and cut for dunks in the 4th. That was a huge talking point that year. So it’s not just one series.

In what grain of confidence do you have in a player who hasn’t shot 3s or consistent jumpers or hasn’t improved his FT% in his first 4 years in the league already? I think it’s a little too optimistic if you ask me. I mean we’ve watched Buddy Hield for the past 4 years.

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June 21, 2021 1:56 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

The Wizards are not on the same level as the Hawks, what?!?!? And there were like 2 close games in that series?

So then he has proven he can be on the court in crunch time in the playoffs. He just needs to be more consistent, which is not unusual for a 24 year old player.

Also, his last series in 2019 was against the Raptors and he stood in the corner and cut for dunks in the 4th. That was a huge talking point that year. So it’s not just one series.

Which is more aggressive than this series. He scored and found ways to impact the game even if it should have been a leading indicator that this type of series could happen. But he was also great in that series and had a positive net rating in a series where the team had a negative net rating.

In what grain of confidence do you have in a player who hasn’t shot 3s or consistent jumpers or hasn’t improved his FT% in his first 4 years in the league already? I think it’s a little too optimistic if you ask me. I mean we’ve watched Buddy Hield for the past 4 years.

His FT% has gone from 56% to 61%. And his shooting from 10-16 feet has improved from 31% to 37%. I’d like to see more improvement there and hopefully this series lights a fire under him. But it’s not as if he hasn’t shown improvement already.

Kangz_Landing
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June 21, 2021 2:04 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

I’ll acknowledge the minor improvements but 4 years to improve that slowly? No dice.

Big men go from 0% 3pt % to 30-35% in one season. Can’t give Ben a pass on that.

But the main thing is his unwillingness to shoot. That doesn’t prove that he’s a lost cause? 4 years and he still doesn’t shoot consistently for ppl to get off his back? The fact that we are still talking about just his basic willingness to shoot a jumpshot is the biggest red flag.

Sorry but that’s a mental thing not a developmental thing. That’s even harder to fix.

outrider
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June 21, 2021 12:42 pm

Funny. Just before coming here, I went to see if a Simmons for Buddy/Bags trade would work, which it will. Then I saw that Simmons is owed around 138 mil over the next 4 seasons. Yikes. That’s a lot of greenbacks for a guy who is certainly a skilled player, but has major flaws in his game. That said, I’d probably still make the deal.

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June 21, 2021 12:59 pm
Reply to  outrider

I am on the fence because I am not sure a Fox, Haliburton Simmons core gets you there or even to WCF. That said, if we do feel the need to take a 35 million dollar a year gamble, I will take Simmons ever day of the year over taking Porzingis. I would rather try a lesser deal involving Thybulle or Miles Turner.

Otis
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June 21, 2021 1:04 pm
Reply to  ElRonToro

I just don’t see a world where this team acquires Simmons (and his contract) without shipping either Fox or Hield back. And I don’t think the Sixers would take a Hield-centered deal without some draft compensation being included.

But agree, I wouldn’t be a big fan of a Fox/Haliburton/Simmons backcourt, but Haliburton/Hield/Simmons would be interesting, especially if you’re getting additional assets back from Philly (which I think would be the case if you were moving Fox).

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June 21, 2021 1:14 pm
Reply to  Otis

I’m with you. As crazy as it sounds I much prefer a Hali, Buddy, Simmons grouping going forward than a Fox, Hali, Simmons. I also just think it is more realistic from a trade perspective. Sixers will not be interested in a Hield centered trade when there are so many other teams out there with better assets. Fox might be one the best assets any team would be willing to offer the Sixers in a Simmons deal. He is a sure thing for a win now team not looking for future assets.

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June 21, 2021 1:20 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I agree with both of you on the general concept of which 3 make sense together. Could they squeeze Maxey into the Fox centered deal?

I think this places a lot of belief and load on what Hali can/will become. This leaves the Kings without an obvious crunch time go to guy, which at least in the regular season, Fox has proven to be at least decent at.

Not sure I could do it, it’s a huge friggin’ swing. I might be more risk adverse than some on here. I would really have to think about it.

Last edited 1 year ago by WizsSox
Mephariel
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June 22, 2021 8:12 am
Reply to  Otis

Why would a Haliburton/Hield/Simmons back court be interesting? Hield is getting worse, not better. Haliburton hasn’t proven anything yet. If you trade Fox, the best you can get is Simmons? Seriously?

Otis
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June 22, 2021 9:55 am
Reply to  Mephariel

“The best you can get” is a better player than De’Aaron Fox…and you’re questioning that philosophy?

I’m not certain Hield’s getting worse, I think he’s misused.

In a perfect world, this type of trade would be done in conjunction with hiring a qualified head coach.

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June 22, 2021 5:50 pm
Reply to  Otis

I simply don’t understand your disdain for Fox, I think you are overvaluing Simmons and undervaluing Fox by a great deal.

2018DraftTimeMachine
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June 22, 2021 2:41 pm
Reply to  outrider

Because Buddy and Bagley don’t really have any holes in their game. Holy shit I would jump on that deal without blinking.

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June 21, 2021 12:48 pm

So if the Kings want to go big, here might be a solution. First assess your trade chips. I believe our trade chips are as follows: Bagley, Fox, Hield, Barnes, and our 2021 and 2022 draft picks. Second assess possible targets. Here’s some possible targets, Porzinges, Ben Simmons, Siakam, Tyler Hero, KAT, Myles Turner. As others have mentioned, I also like Isaiah Roby.

Now try to put a team together that can shoot/score, rebound and defend.

Here’s my proposal.

Fox for Simmons and a second round pick.

Buddy, Bagley and 2 second round picks for Siakam.

2021 first and second, and Wright for Porzinges.

2022 first and Barnes for Myles Turner

Roster
Simmons, Davis
Haliburton
Siakam, Woodard
Porzinges, Metu,
Turner, add journey free agents on minimums like Alex Len and Mike Muscala

Kingsguru21
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June 21, 2021 12:55 pm

I’d do Simmons for anyone not named Fox, Haliburton or the 9th pick (or whatever it ends up being tomorrow) on the roster atm.

Because Simmons would be an upgrade in some ways even if you factor in that the Sixers are taking him off the court at the end of games. That’s the kind of buy low project the Kings need to focus on. I doubt the Sixers will do any trade that doesn’t include Fox (and that to me is pointless), and I’m sure they have eyes on Damian Lillard (who might have eyes on them at this point). To me that’s a trade the Kings don’t likely have the assets for, but could upset a lot of apple carts around the L by doing so. Could create opportunities for the Kings, for instance, if they can figure any of them out.

One thought keeps coming in my head: Would I rather have Pascal Siakam or Ben Simmons. And it’s close, but I think I’d rather have Simmons because he’s a lot younger. Sometimes there’s growth there, sometimes not.

Eh, it is what it is. Opportunities abound. Go forth Monty!

outrider
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June 21, 2021 1:59 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I’d do Simmons for anyone not named Fox, Haliburton or the 9th pick (or whatever it ends up being tomorrow) on the roster atm.

Agree here. In my trade example, shipping off Bags and Buddy for Ben solves two problems for us, but I’m guessing wouldn’t be enough for philly. Aw well, a man can dream…

rockbottom
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June 21, 2021 2:36 pm
Reply to  outrider

It would be a good and fair trade for both teams ! A bit risky for both but a fair return ! No need to include Fox ! Heild and Bagley is enough and helps Philly ! Simmons could make Kings 5-10 games better ( if FT improve ) ! Big IF but not impossible as many examples are available !

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June 21, 2021 6:46 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

I’d be willing to throw in this year’s first-round pick to sweeten the deal for Philly. I’d rather have a 24-year old proven All-Star than a 20-year old “someday he might be an All-Star if everything works out.”

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June 21, 2021 2:19 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I’d include the pick if the Kings don’t move up in the lotto.

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June 21, 2021 4:17 pm
Reply to  richie88

The reason I didn’t include the pick is because of the money owed Simmons AND the fact growth isn’t guaranteed with him. Nor is it guaranteed to work in Sac if the Kings were to acquire him.

He’s worth acquiring, but I’m not sure he’s worth what it will cost for the Sixers to likely move him. But with all the cap room around the league, with so many teams looking at players potentially available, you look at your opportunities for upgrade.

My biggest concern remains whether Monte McNair and Basketball Ops has the resources they need to do what they have to to upgrade the roster. The opportunity is there IMO.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kingsguru21
SelecaoKOJ
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June 21, 2021 4:59 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

No Stars are coming to Sac for average or developmental players. Bagley, Barnes, Buddy.

Simmons is a Major Upgrade. He’s first team All Defense the past 3 straight years. He will lock down all players 1-5, Doc has him playing the point, The man would destroy most 5’s in the league with his size and athleticism. He has shooting issues. without a doubt. But, Simmons would change the entire makeup of this team, esp on the defensive end.

Simmons, Hands down witll be the best defensive All Star player this team hass ever traded for.

Rolling out this lineup with a few free agent Bargain basement players like Winslow and Kanter are not moving the needle for this team in a brutal west and going to get even nastier next year.

IF this team doesn’t at least try for some type of blockbuster, they will be stuck in the sea of mediocrity again for Year. 16. You Better Believe that.

Tell me the team they’re surpassing in a healthy Western Confernce next year to get that 8th Spot? Running back this same team. With a couple more bench supplements and a 9-10 pick. Elighten me. Not trying to rude of condescending, But, something has to Change for this team to make any incremental growth.

oshima9
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June 21, 2021 8:44 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Fox for Simmons, with other players and picks as required, is the trade that would remake this franchise, and create a real future for it. I can’t believe that Vivek would approve it, and I’m not even sure that McNair is hard nosed enough to do it.

Mephariel
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June 22, 2021 8:14 am
Reply to  oshima9

Simmons isn’t a first option. I am not sure how we are remaking the franchise. He is not even a second option.

Otis
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June 22, 2021 9:56 am
Reply to  Mephariel

Agreed, if we only care about points scored and not things like ballhandling, distribution and defense.

AmateurNerd
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June 21, 2021 6:45 pm