The Philadelphis 76ers lost Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals last night, and in the process (pardon the pun) Ben Simmons destroyed fan’s opinions of him. Simmons took just four shots the entire game, including passing up an open shot right at the rim in the closing minutes of the fourth quarter. After the game, Joel Embiid even seemed the throw Simmons under the bus:
Full quote from Joel Embiid: "I mean, I'll be honest. I thought the turning point was when we — I don't know how to say it — but I thought the turning point was just we had an open shot and we made one free throw and we missed the other and then they came down and scored…
— Rich Hofmann (@rich_hofmann) June 21, 2021
Joel Embiid on whether he’d like to see the Sixers run it back next year:
“That’s a tricky question.”
— Bryan Toporek (@btoporek) June 21, 2021
Simmons was reportedly made available in James Harden trade talks at the beginning of the season, and now with this playoff failure it seems unlikely that Simmons returns to Philly next season. Simmons’ trade value has also never been lower.
And that’s why I think it’s the perfect time for the Sacramento Kings to trade for him.
First things first, I wouldn’t want the Kings to make any trade involving De’Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton, and I also wouldn’t want to include this year’s draft pick if the Kings jump in the lottery.
There are a number of ways the Kings could mix and match salaries to make a deal work, depending on what Philadelphia would want. Obviously the Kings should be willing to give both Marvin Bagley and Buddy Hield. I personally think Hield would be a really good fit on a team with so many good defenders. But the Sixers may not be interested in either player.
Another possibility would be Harrison Barnes, Delon Wright, and draft picks. Neither Barnes nor Wright are stars, but both could help Philadelphia’s offense without harming their defense, and might work better as supporting pieces around Embiid. It would ultimately come down to how Philadelphia valued the draft assets, and what other offers the Sixers received. It seems unlikely that Sacramento would have the best offer (a Simmons and CJ McCollum swap seems to make a ton of sense for both sides).
But even if the Kings were the best offer, I know there are many of you that still wouldn’t want Simmons. And I get it. Simmons’ flaws are prolific. Simmons possesses an unhealthy combination of being unwilling to shoot threes, being shy about taking shots at the rim in a big moment, and just a general inability to shoot from the floor or the free throw line.
Ben Simmons 34.2% FT pct in the 2021 playoffs is the worst by any player in a single season postseason in NBA history (min. 70 FT attempts).https://t.co/s5XftvpNyT pic.twitter.com/8VXON8qpiF
— Stathead (@Stathead) June 21, 2021
So yes, I absolutely acknowledge the ways that Simmons can hurt a team.
But only focusing on a player’s flaws can make you overlook the other ways they help. For starters, Simmons is an elite defensive player. He’s 6’11” with the ability to guard guards or wings. And not just the ability to stay in front of them, but the ability to be a shutdown defender. For the Kings, who finished last in the league in defensive rating, adding an elite defender would be huge.
Simmons contributes in other ways as well. He’s an insanely good passer, and a very strong rebounder. He contributes on a high level in every way other than scoring.
If the Kings added Simmons, who is still just 24 years old, there would be concerns about floor spacing, but the Kings would have the ability to run set with Fox, Haliburton, and Simmons all being able to attack a defense and then pass out. You’d obviously need to ensure the remainder of the roster had some shooting to help cover both Fox and Simmons, but the talent level of the Kings would be drastically improved.
The Kings need an infusion of talent, and Simmons would be that despite his shooting woes. It’s a risk, but it’s a risk the Kings should take.
Ben Simmons is like Democracy: he is the worst choice except for all the rest.
Does that make the Kings the USA?
We’ll do the right thing only after exhausting all other options?
Timely article. Absolutely agree that now is the time to try to poach Simmons, but there are probably better offers. Turner, McCollum, Brown, or Okc picks
He’d be useless in Sac because he needs to be surrounded with shooters, needs the ball and Kings are too dumb to use Simmons correctly.
To be fair, the Kings are too dumb to maximize the talents of any flawed player, so that’s not how I analyze potential acquisitions.
And make no mistake, whoever the Kings acquire will have flaws and need an NBA competent level of coaching and roster/game planning.
Agree/good point. Until Vivek backs off and Kings get a real coach it’s all Titanic deck chair rearrangement.
Then we’re screwed…
Most likely for another few years, yes.
I’m running out of years.
We already have one in Haliburton. We could also use the draft pick on a big shooter like Kai Jones if we keep our #9 or slide to #10.
I’d trade Fox and filler for Simmons and Maxey/Thybulle and hand the reigns to Haliburton with Simmons in a Bam role.
That might work. Simmons really needs to be in Dramond Green role.
Then let’s just get Draymond Green.
Let’s get both. That’s something I’d be interested in seeing.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygrolm2c
We might need to give each of the other teams a protected first-rounder, since we’d be getting the two best players involved.
I’ll do you one better.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzm6y7zk
Vivek always wants to zag when everyone zigs, I give you the All Kings Non Shooting Team. This truly might be the worst trade anyone’s ever shared here.
Gah!
Could he be available?
I’d do a legkick of joy if we could get him.
I don’t think that there’s any possibility that Maxey or Thubulle are included unless we include Haliburton.
Yea they kinda need to find their PG of the future and they are VERY high on Maxey. It’s been described many times from locals that he’s a film/student junkie, and is one of the hardest workers behind the scenes on the team. He might be worth keeping.
He’s alive!
Marty, how are you?
Did you like how Embiid and Doc threw Simmons under the bus, and then backed up again over him?
And why does Tobias Harris, who was utterly mediocre these play-offs, catch almost no heat?
So many questions. I’ve been on the other thread.
I’m fine. The team ended the season exactly where I thought they would, a top 4 team. So there’s pretty much no emotion with the way things ended; Embiid hurt and a perimeter team exploiting their weaknesses.
I don’t have any problems with what was said last night. I’m a pretty open book and tough conversations aren’t the end of the world. Imagine playing a center, who can’t center? Probably be some stress.
Ben has led a very privileged BB life, so welcome to adulthood Ben.
Tobias Harris needs an open floor which is why he played so much this year on the second unit when Embiid sits. Scaredy-Ben hands Harris the ball with Embiid down low clogging the lane, and then Ben’s man helps to double Harris, well that is a heck of a way to utilize a skilled driver like Harris. Major organizational flaw there.
Building around Embiid has been very impactful on others, no doubt. It’s not the way I would build in today’s NBA but it is what it is. The season was fun and the Sixers stayed healthy, but IMHO playing a back to basket C in today’s game is a death sentence.
And one; wouldn’t Fox be their PG of the now and the future?
My hope: with Simmons on the block (if he truly is) it would take one more team out of the running for either of the Pacers bigs, or CJ McCollum. If someone gives up the farm for Simmons, my hope if that it would help the Kings get Turner somehow.
I’m with you on the main concept, as well as the scenarios for what the Kings would give up. I think a combination of Barnes or Hield + Bagley feels fair, but could see parting with this year’s pick if it doesn’t move up considerably. Both options give Philly some flexibility as they can audition Bagley for a year with no additional commitment, and Barnes and Hield would both provide the Sixers with useful skill sets with that roster.
I think that Simmons probably needs some kind of help for the larger problem of passing up on wide open looks as he did yesterday, and what appears to be his fear of shooting in general. He’ll never be even a good shooter, but if he can get to the place where he takes the looks he gets in the paint, he could absolutely contribute. It’s weird that the Kings have better floor-spreaders than Philly, but even if Hield goes out, I think we’d still have enough to provide room for Simmons to get into the paint to shoot or kick out.
This is the big swing we’ve discussed, and even though Simmons wouldn’t be my first choice, if he can be had on a reasonable trade deal, I think you have to do it.
Besides, if anyone can fix Ben Simmons, it’s Luke Walton.
Bravo!
&ct=g
The shooting in say threes has always been overblown. But the free throws is where its disasterous considering his ability to get to the rim. He in theory could generate league high atempts at the line. Assume he could convert 70+%, he could be generating more efficient offense in either a finish or foul.
The fix is obvious to me but avoided by everyone. The Granny. Some might scoff but at some point I expect teams with at or below 65% FT shooters to implement the style with players. In Simmons case it might be the difference of him being allowed usage or being a net negative designated to 2nd units by his prime. If he hit the Rick Barry tape and worked on it he honestly could be a different player.
I think that any player below 65% should be required to shoot them that way. Your team needs points, to hell with your pride, make a god damned free throw.
He could just try shooting free throws with his dominant hand first.
Tristan Thompson: “Hold my beer”
I don’t think Philly would accept a trade of Bagley & either Barnes or Hield for Simmons unless the Kings include their 1st rounder (& I’d be fine w/trading it if the Kings don’t move up) or Philly fires Morey & hires Vlade.
Offer them Buddy Hield and Bagley for Simmons.
Philly will hang up swiftly. Hali and or Fox and this years pick at a minimuum. Then, maybe, Philly Bites.
That is a horrible trade if it includes this year’s 1st AND Fox or Hali. IMO, that is Vlade-level awful.
If they have interest in Buddy Hield, they don’t hang up. If they do hang up, then they don’t have interest in Buddy and all of last year’s rumors were BS. Why would you trade Fox or Haliburton? I think your priorities are out of whack.
I would do it for a package around Buddy and Barnes…but I think adding Bagley is too steep.
The intention of looking for a deprecciated lottery asset is a worthy idea for this team abstractly. But my hesitations with Simmons specifcally are massive considering how specifiic of a player he is. There are strengths but the makeover some suggests he could have as a playmaking four go against most tendencies I have seen him demonstrate in halfcourt offense. Cut that with our best players tendencies on ball and us not possessing shotmakers or players who even attract gravity and you begin to have real problems.
I am not completely out on Simmons elsewhere, and wouldnt be shocked if he stumbles into a good siituation. Him on the Magic comes to mind with big wings who can get in transition or spot up for him where his usage wont be as costly. But he also seems very unaware of how specific of a player he is which is the real worry.
One thing I have always though that i think could drastically alter his stock would be underhand free throws. There have been few better cases than him to adopt the strategy. An improvement at the line would recontexttualize almost his entire game, and give him so much more leeway. At some point the granny will begin to be implemented and I would give him huge props if he did. A fix to a lot of his problems is right there.
Simmons has a major flaw on offense, but he would really help the Kings on defense & the Kings had 1 of the worst defenses in NBA history last season.
And even his flaws on offense were magnified this series and he got into his own head after shooting FTs in the playoffs far worse than he has in past seasons or playoff series.
And while he has offensive issues, he’s not Thybulle. He’s still a fantastic penetrator and has tremendous vision. Even in his bad offensive game, he still had 13 assists and only 2 turnovers.
I could 100% see him helping to get better looks for our shooters and big men, while also serving as a defensive weapon like we haven’t had for a very long time.
Right now, fans are way, way too low on Simmons. If Morey wants to trade him, we should 100% be calling with an offer right now. The man is just 24 years old and still improving.
According to Philly fans, he’s stagnating (though I think a stagnant version of Simmons would still improve the Kings if they don’t trade Fox or Hali to get him).
He has improved, but I would point out that improvement and player development is not always linear.
It can be up and down or players can appear to peak and then hit another upswing.
Maybe Simmons has essentially peaked, but I would be very interested in betting on a 24 year old with his gifts, who just got publicly humiliated (and traded if we acquired him) and now has a massive chip on his shoulder.
I don’t personally know Simmons or his personality, but this feels like the recipe for putting in the work to make another leap.
I wouldn’t bet for or against a leap, but I’d bet that he’d help the Kings if they trade for him.
Trade machine deal for Simmons works:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yetsgnyd
Hollinger’s analysis: +13 wins (+30 wins if you replace Luke Walton)
It’s the sort of deal the kings have to make, right? Not necessarily this deal, but something along these lines. I would hope Hines could make him at least non-negative on offense, which would make getting him a huge win.
I’d look into it. Although, I’m not sure how it would work in trades or roster construction. I don’t like the proposal suggested in the article (Barnes plus Wright AND draft picks plural?!!) we’d be getting fleeced.
At the risk of making the entire sub hate me¦ (a pick or two is needed going out)
SMF-PDX created a far worse trade.
For the Fox for Simmons debaters.
Alot of fans have said that this team should stop pushing for playoff moves and start pushing for championship moves. Especially via the draft to build long term by tanking to get better prospects. And I do agree with the tank, but that’s not happening.
And of course with Fox we are not guaranteed nor are we close to even sniffing the playoffs or a championship, but still
How does trading Fox for Simmons set up a foundation for a championship, when
A) When it comes to playoff time, Simmons has proven that he cannot be trusted to stay on the floor when it matters most.
B) Fox looks more like the guards who play well in the playoffs year after year, get closer to winning titles, and fit today’s NBA
C) John Wall (Fox’s biggest comp so far) has gotten as far as Ben Simmons has in their first 5 years in the playoffs.
Obviously Fox will prove me right or wrong when the team finally does make the playoffs but Fox for Simmons just seems like a redundant move for this team in terms of results, but Fox fits what today’s NBA team building looks like way more.
For those who say Simmons can lead this team to the playoffs while Fox can’t, Simmons started his career with an All-Star Embiid. Give Fox an All-Star too then judge.
I don’t see getting Simmons as a championship move, just an upgrade.
And I think your points are definitely subjective, and focused on what Simmons can’t do while ignoring what Fox can’t do (or hasn’t been able to do to this point). I’m not sold that Fox’s “style” on offense will translate in the playoffs, but hopefully we’ll find out in the next few seasons.
The four teams remaining in the NBA playoffs are the 6th, 8th, 9th and 18th rated teams in defense in the league. If we’re talking about what team building looks like in the modern game, it isn’t just about offense.
Everyone says not to focus on what Ben can’t do but on what he can do, but honestly we do that for every player. We focus on Buddy’s lack of everything but don’t focus on his shooting. We focus on Barnes’ propensity to disappear and his plain averageness, but don’t focus on his leadership, steadiness, IQ in taking only good shots.
Finally, we focus on Fox’s lack of defense, shot selection and free throw shooting but don’t focus on his elite speed, ability to score one-v-one, get to the foul line, his 7.2 assists per game (remember that) and most importantly his confidence and willingness to take the team on his back which is what we praise true All-Stars for.
We do that for every player, what I’m saying is what Fox does well, Ben doesn’t do well and what Ben does do well, Fox doesn’t do well, so that’s kind of a reciprocal trade ain’t it? Not an upgrade in my mind because I’d take the confident player over the unconfident player in a heartbeat.
Do we, to the extent that we’re focusing on Simmons’ negatives? Not in my opinion. I’d say his positives are HEAVILY talked about around here.
And you left out the fact that Fox’s team has been better with him off the floor, both in win/loss record and NetRating. While that speaks somewhat to the team around him, it also speaks a bit to his potential ceiling.
I think the confident/unconfident thing is a bit silly. I’d take the basketball player that makes the team better.
To start off with your last statement. Would you take Simmons or Trae Young? Simmons over Mitchell? Simmons over KAT? Simmons over Booker? Because all of those guys were scorers who do not win unless they have great players around them, have not improved their teams win % when they were rebuilding, do not have great defensive reputations and they have always been extremely confident scorers. Simmons makes the team better as you said, but I would take everyone else over him.
And yes, fans love to point out Fox’s flaws which is why I don’t understand how the best player that we have drafted since DeMarcus Cousins, probably the 2nd best player we have drafted this whole millenuim, the player that we call our own, that we have developed onto an almost all star this year, is so easily being thrown into trade talks for a guy who just had the worst choke job (next to LeBron) and worst playoff shooting series in NBA history. And just so I don’t get accused of overreacting, Ben Simmons has not proven that he’s in any form a leader who can lead this Kings team to play defense or lead them out of this rebuild. He’s soft and his performance just proved it.
I acknowledge Fox’s flaws, but my main point is he’s not the problem on this team. U keep pointing out that the team is better record wise, that doesn’t mean he’s the main problem on this team.
Finally, don’t think that the players around the league don’t see Ben Simmons in a lesser light now too. Even Embiid called him out. They barked big time to PG13 this year, just wait till next season.
Frankly, the language you use regarding Simmons shows that you’re not capable of being swayed.
Simmons plays defense. Fox doesn’t. But Simmons is soft. Ok then.
Lol I don’t need to be swayed and I’m not trying to sway you either because you sound like you can’t be swayed in my opinion as I sound like I can’t be swayed in your opinion. I accept that here in this community ð
I’m not trying to sway a person in these chats because that never happens so I’m just presenting my reasoning against other reasonings.
And we’ve had many discussions about Fox and you know my position and I know yours so honestly this is where it gets fun in my opinion.
I respect your opinions sir, nothing wrong with a little heated argument either. We’re all fans of the same team lol
Nah, I respect yours as well, and again – I don’t think a deal would be without risk.
Maybe Fox has a higher ceiling than I’m seeing – but this “leap” he made this season was mostly imaginary.
I can see your pov because while his stats went up the team results and team efficiency stats did not go up.
The main thing I wanted to see from Fox was a confidence to shoot the 3, because if he didn’t at least let it fly then players and teams would pounce on that and sag off. Also, a willingness to be THE GUY and look for his own shot against any defender because that showed that he knew no one could stop him. I think in that last Joerger year he was great but often gave the ball up too much and thats when guys like Draymond and KD and Kyrie spoke to him after games.
Those are superstar characteristics that I wanted to see him develop. And overall I think he did, especially in the games that he did actually lead us to wins. I think his true value will show when he gets a better cast much like these young guards shining rn in the playoffs.
I meant mental softness.
Playing defense doesn’t constitute toughness, because Ben can play defense but he’s still mentally soft. You don’t completely pass on an open layup like he did if you’re strong mentally.
I disagree. Playing good team defense takes physical toughness and mental acuity.
But I’m done with the “soft” discussion and it’s implications. It’s nonsensical. I suspect many people would think Fox is soft because he apparently saw last season as a success, and is satisfied with a “friendly” coach over a tougher guy like Joerger.
ð I know you’re done, but I do have to ask the question then.
How do you label the mental toughness of this current Kings team this past season?
As Charles Barkley would say, they were soft as Charmin.
So do you believe Fox is a complete lost cause on defense? So put an actual team of defenders around him and he wouldn’t step up to the challenge?
Because I see Ben being a complete lost cause on offense. He is what he is. If he proves me wrong then awesome, I hope he does because I’d love to see Ben with a jumper, I want to root for guys not see them fail, but as of now Ben looks like he’ll never attempt jump shots confidently at all.
I won’t say that Fox couldn’t be a part of a good team defense, but it’s certainly questionable at this point.
If your offense needs Simmons to score 25 per game, or make a three with the game on the line then yes – I guess he’d be considered a “lost cause”. But he’s statistically been a positive at that end of the floor during his tenure in Philadelphia.
Because he only shoots from close range… of course his TSP% and FG% is gonna be a positive.
And the regular season is so free flowing that it looks great.
But the meat arrives in the playoffs and what we just saw something so rotten…
Also, disagree on Fox being questionable to improve on D, 1st of all if Fox handles his business on O then D won’t be an issue if he has the right pieces around him, just ask Trae and Booker. 2nd, he’s 23, not saying he’s gonna he elite, but come on, he’s gonna get better as the team improves around him.
No, when I say he’s been a positive at that end of the floor, I mean that Philly has been better offensively with him on the floor, regardless of how he shoots the ball from the perimeter or the line.
Well I never said he was a negative because I know his benefits, he can pass and move the ball and yes his close range scoring is efficient, but my argument was that he himself is a lost cause. Individually as a scorer.
He can make a positive impact but did you just see the negative he had in this series. And it’s not just gonna be this series, if he doesn’t improve individually then he’s always gonna be a liability in big playoff series against smart teams. That’s where it really matters. I’m not talking about the regular season.
How can you consider him a positive when they did hack-a-Ben strategy and that let the Hawks win game 5? And then he was so scared to even shoot for the last 4 games of this series?
I think those are the things that make Simmons potentially available, and I’d also say that his coaching staff may not be helping him in that regard.
Simmons had some noticeably ugly moments in the playoffs, certainly. Yet overall he’s still been a net positive during the playoffs.
I totally get it – you value the micro over the macro. My point is that if Philly management values the micro over the macro, maybe you could get Simmons plus assets back (in the case of dealing Fox).
Then the overall roster would look a little more balanced in Sacramento.
I’m not saying this would be a move without risk. There’s risk in any trade, especially when you’re talking high end players. And if you could get Simmons without dealing Fox, I’d be down with that. But if it does take Fox, I’d be ok with McNair pursuing a potential deal.
And that’s a perfectly valid point.
Because in my mind Fox and Hali are untouchable. Why are we giving up on Fox when A) he’s shown improvement every year and B) we haven’t put another all star with him?
And I think Fox’s type of style is more valuable than Simmons’ play style in today’s NBA. Those are my two main arguments and I’m sticking by them.
On micro and macro, I think that’s the difference between Championship teams and playoff teams.
And definitely the difference between playoff teams and bad teams.
Micro = focused winners
Macro = carefree losers
My verbiage is a little strong but I hope u get what I mean. Winning teams care about the winning details and The Kings don’t care about anything so they’re macro.
You think successful teams focus on smaller sample sizes? Huh.
No, successful teams care about the micro as in micromanaging the details for winning basketball.
While bad teams care about the macro, as in making Golden1 center and the Kings the most cutting edge building and progressive sports team in the world.
“So do you believe Fox is a complete lost cause on defense? So put an actual team of defenders around him and he wouldn’t step up to the challenge?”
He’s played 4 years in the league if one includes the bubble year, and hasn’t shown any significant improvement. Nor does he seem motivated to improve. He shouldn’t need a team of defenders to get him to play defense, this is what people said about Jimmer Fredette, he needs a good team around him.
So, I guess my answer is, no, he wouldn’t.
I’ve never heard that said about Jimmer ever, I might have missed that. I only ever heard, Jimmer was never going to be a good defender and I agreed.
Anyway, not expecting Fox to be a stopper by any means but yea Trae, Devin, and KAT suddenly look acceptable on defense with better players around them, so better talent motivates more. That’s an observational fact, so just saying before you judge, let’s give Fox a real team.
It is a little confusing, I admit. The analogy was more general. Fredette needed 4 good players around him to be a good, high scoring NBA player. I heard that a lot from his fanboys. Fox apparently needs 4 other good defensive players to be a passable NBA defender.
I don’t think this has been proven at all. It’s happened to him in a series and while it certainly is a data point, I would not write off a 24 year old player or assume he will never be able to improve upon his play in this series.
I mean he was sure on the floor in crunch time of the 76ers wins over the Wizards.
The Wizards are not on the same level as the Hawks, what?!?!? And there were like 2 close games in that series?
Also I’m not just talking about this series and him just being on the floor, because yea he can be on the court but he’s not a threat in crunch time and 4 straight 4th quarters where he took ZERO shots combined doesn’t prove anything? Yes he can improve but until he proves it wrong, it has been PROVEN already that he gets benched on offense in the late 4th because of lack of FT and shooting. If it happened right before our eyes, how is that not proof?
Also, his last series in 2019 was against the Raptors and he stood in the corner and cut for dunks in the 4th. That was a huge talking point that year. So it’s not just one series.
In what grain of confidence do you have in a player who hasn’t shot 3s or consistent jumpers or hasn’t improved his FT% in his first 4 years in the league already? I think it’s a little too optimistic if you ask me. I mean we’ve watched Buddy Hield for the past 4 years.
So then he has proven he can be on the court in crunch time in the playoffs. He just needs to be more consistent, which is not unusual for a 24 year old player.
Which is more aggressive than this series. He scored and found ways to impact the game even if it should have been a leading indicator that this type of series could happen. But he was also great in that series and had a positive net rating in a series where the team had a negative net rating.
His FT% has gone from 56% to 61%. And his shooting from 10-16 feet has improved from 31% to 37%. I’d like to see more improvement there and hopefully this series lights a fire under him. But it’s not as if he hasn’t shown improvement already.
I’ll acknowledge the minor improvements but 4 years to improve that slowly? No dice.
Big men go from 0% 3pt % to 30-35% in one season. Can’t give Ben a pass on that.
But the main thing is his unwillingness to shoot. That doesn’t prove that he’s a lost cause? 4 years and he still doesn’t shoot consistently for ppl to get off his back? The fact that we are still talking about just his basic willingness to shoot a jumpshot is the biggest red flag.
Sorry but that’s a mental thing not a developmental thing. That’s even harder to fix.
Funny. Just before coming here, I went to see if a Simmons for Buddy/Bags trade would work, which it will. Then I saw that Simmons is owed around 138 mil over the next 4 seasons. Yikes. That’s a lot of greenbacks for a guy who is certainly a skilled player, but has major flaws in his game. That said, I’d probably still make the deal.
I am on the fence because I am not sure a Fox, Haliburton Simmons core gets you there or even to WCF. That said, if we do feel the need to take a 35 million dollar a year gamble, I will take Simmons ever day of the year over taking Porzingis. I would rather try a lesser deal involving Thybulle or Miles Turner.
I just don’t see a world where this team acquires Simmons (and his contract) without shipping either Fox or Hield back. And I don’t think the Sixers would take a Hield-centered deal without some draft compensation being included.
But agree, I wouldn’t be a big fan of a Fox/Haliburton/Simmons backcourt, but Haliburton/Hield/Simmons would be interesting, especially if you’re getting additional assets back from Philly (which I think would be the case if you were moving Fox).
I’m with you. As crazy as it sounds I much prefer a Hali, Buddy, Simmons grouping going forward than a Fox, Hali, Simmons. I also just think it is more realistic from a trade perspective. Sixers will not be interested in a Hield centered trade when there are so many other teams out there with better assets. Fox might be one the best assets any team would be willing to offer the Sixers in a Simmons deal. He is a sure thing for a win now team not looking for future assets.
I agree with both of you on the general concept of which 3 make sense together. Could they squeeze Maxey into the Fox centered deal?
I think this places a lot of belief and load on what Hali can/will become. This leaves the Kings without an obvious crunch time go to guy, which at least in the regular season, Fox has proven to be at least decent at.
Not sure I could do it, it’s a huge friggin’ swing. I might be more risk adverse than some on here. I would really have to think about it.
Why would a Haliburton/Hield/Simmons back court be interesting? Hield is getting worse, not better. Haliburton hasn’t proven anything yet. If you trade Fox, the best you can get is Simmons? Seriously?
“The best you can get” is a better player than De’Aaron Fox…and you’re questioning that philosophy?
I’m not certain Hield’s getting worse, I think he’s misused.
In a perfect world, this type of trade would be done in conjunction with hiring a qualified head coach.
I simply don’t understand your disdain for Fox, I think you are overvaluing Simmons and undervaluing Fox by a great deal.
Because Buddy and Bagley don’t really have any holes in their game. Holy shit I would jump on that deal without blinking.
So if the Kings want to go big, here might be a solution. First assess your trade chips. I believe our trade chips are as follows: Bagley, Fox, Hield, Barnes, and our 2021 and 2022 draft picks. Second assess possible targets. Here’s some possible targets, Porzinges, Ben Simmons, Siakam, Tyler Hero, KAT, Myles Turner. As others have mentioned, I also like Isaiah Roby.
Now try to put a team together that can shoot/score, rebound and defend.
Here’s my proposal.
Fox for Simmons and a second round pick.
Buddy, Bagley and 2 second round picks for Siakam.
2021 first and second, and Wright for Porzinges.
2022 first and Barnes for Myles Turner
Roster
Simmons, Davis
Haliburton
Siakam, Woodard
Porzinges, Metu,
Turner, add journey free agents on minimums like Alex Len and Mike Muscala
I’d do Simmons for anyone not named Fox, Haliburton or the 9th pick (or whatever it ends up being tomorrow) on the roster atm.
Because Simmons would be an upgrade in some ways even if you factor in that the Sixers are taking him off the court at the end of games. That’s the kind of buy low project the Kings need to focus on. I doubt the Sixers will do any trade that doesn’t include Fox (and that to me is pointless), and I’m sure they have eyes on Damian Lillard (who might have eyes on them at this point). To me that’s a trade the Kings don’t likely have the assets for, but could upset a lot of apple carts around the L by doing so. Could create opportunities for the Kings, for instance, if they can figure any of them out.
One thought keeps coming in my head: Would I rather have Pascal Siakam or Ben Simmons. And it’s close, but I think I’d rather have Simmons because he’s a lot younger. Sometimes there’s growth there, sometimes not.
Eh, it is what it is. Opportunities abound. Go forth Monty!
Agree here. In my trade example, shipping off Bags and Buddy for Ben solves two problems for us, but I’m guessing wouldn’t be enough for philly. Aw well, a man can dream…
It would be a good and fair trade for both teams ! A bit risky for both but a fair return ! No need to include Fox ! Heild and Bagley is enough and helps Philly ! Simmons could make Kings 5-10 games better ( if FT improve ) ! Big IF but not impossible as many examples are available !
I’d be willing to throw in this year’s first-round pick to sweeten the deal for Philly. I’d rather have a 24-year old proven All-Star than a 20-year old “someday he might be an All-Star if everything works out.”
I’d include the pick if the Kings don’t move up in the lotto.
The reason I didn’t include the pick is because of the money owed Simmons AND the fact growth isn’t guaranteed with him. Nor is it guaranteed to work in Sac if the Kings were to acquire him.
He’s worth acquiring, but I’m not sure he’s worth what it will cost for the Sixers to likely move him. But with all the cap room around the league, with so many teams looking at players potentially available, you look at your opportunities for upgrade.
My biggest concern remains whether Monte McNair and Basketball Ops has the resources they need to do what they have to to upgrade the roster. The opportunity is there IMO.
No Stars are coming to Sac for average or developmental players. Bagley, Barnes, Buddy.
Simmons is a Major Upgrade. He’s first team All Defense the past 3 straight years. He will lock down all players 1-5, Doc has him playing the point, The man would destroy most 5’s in the league with his size and athleticism. He has shooting issues. without a doubt. But, Simmons would change the entire makeup of this team, esp on the defensive end.
Simmons, Hands down witll be the best defensive All Star player this team hass ever traded for.
Rolling out this lineup with a few free agent Bargain basement players like Winslow and Kanter are not moving the needle for this team in a brutal west and going to get even nastier next year.
IF this team doesn’t at least try for some type of blockbuster, they will be stuck in the sea of mediocrity again for Year. 16. You Better Believe that.
Tell me the team they’re surpassing in a healthy Western Confernce next year to get that 8th Spot? Running back this same team. With a couple more bench supplements and a 9-10 pick. Elighten me. Not trying to rude of condescending, But, something has to Change for this team to make any incremental growth.
Fox for Simmons, with other players and picks as required, is the trade that would remake this franchise, and create a real future for it. I can’t believe that Vivek would approve it, and I’m not even sure that McNair is hard nosed enough to do it.
Simmons isn’t a first option. I am not sure how we are remaking the franchise. He is not even a second option.
Agreed, if we only care about points scored and not things like ballhandling, distribution and defense.
Agreed! Simmons’s brain fart in the playoffs may be causing people to massively underestimate his impact. When I think about a backcourt of Simmons, Hali, and Fox, I may literally drool. The first two are exceptional playmakers with great vision and high BBIQ. Fox and Simmons can both break down a defense and penetrate at will. Simmons is an elite defender, and Hali is already solid in that area. That lineup would be a 3-headed monster of a backcourt that no team in the league would want to go up against.
One more thing– Simmons is a bad shooter, but to me it seems clear that his troubles are mostly, if not all, mental. Nobody shoots that badly from the line just because they “can’t shoot.” A change of scenery might cure some of his woes. It’s happened before–see Fultz, Markelle.
I think Simmons would be best as a PF or C. I worry about how likely it is that Simmons’ shot can’t be fixed, but his defense & playmaking would really help the Kings.
On this team, I would definitely slot Ben at the 4 and play alongside the Fox/Haliburton backcourt. Shooting would be the biggest argument against that lineup however depending on who you slot at the other two spots….playmaking potential is salivating but will need shooters to make it work.
Reposting from the prior thread, as it is germane here:
If we have any opportunity to trade for Simmons without mortgaging our entire future, then we go trade for him.
Simmons is 24 and in a year that was arguably a down year for him as the 76ers built their offense more around Embiid (who is a legitimate MVP caliber player) Simmons still had:
+ 14-7-7 on 58% true shooting and with a 2.4 A/T
+ All Defensive First team with a 2.4% steal & 1.7% block rate
+ #17 overall player by RPM
+ 2.7 BPM that was almost 2x higher than any Kings player
+ 1.3 OBPM, which was a career low, but 4th highest on the Kings
Now, because of what really amounts to one bad playoff series, where his limitations were on display, but also greatly exacerbated by a mental block (he took Gallo at will when he wanted, but played too passive) and personnel issues (no Green, meant more lineups with Thybuelle and a 2nd non-shooter) people are greatly overreacting.
Let’s be clear, this isn’t even a pattern, Simmons has been in 6 other playoff series and during them:
+ The 76ers are 16-11
+ He’s averaged 15-9-7 with 1.4 steals
+ He’s shot 57% from the floor and 59% on FTs (65% before this season)
And even in this series, he still played great defense. Trae was much worse against Simmons and while Ben passing on a dunk and his unwillingness to aggressively drive on Gallo was bad, his defense on Trae was great. He had him so bottled up, that the Hawks started running the offense through Huerter at the end.
Yes, you have to design your roster around Ben. He is not someone who just fits seamlessly into any roster design. But he is 100% worth the effort.
And while he clearly had a bad playoff series, people tend to way overreact and often create bad narratives out of small sample size playoff matchups and young men who are still growing as people and players. I still remember when Kobe wasn’t a leader until he was, LeBron wasn’t clutch until he suddenly was hitting clutch shots en route to rings, the Warriors were too soft until they won multiple championships, or even two weeks ago you can’t win with Playoff P who is now playing phenomenally and leading the Clippers in the WCF.
Shoot, Giannis is two years older than Simmons and showed tremendous growth this offseason. Simmons is 24 and is getting crucified for his offensive performance. He will never be a great shooter, but it would not surprise me at all if he spent all summer in the gym and came back hitting 70%+ on his FTs and hitting that little FT line jumper that Giannis feasted on when Griffin was playing back too far.
So yeah, if we have a chance to acquire Simmons at any reasonable price, we do it and don’t overthink it. We couldn’t even make the play-in without him. With him, we are a playoff team and if 3-4 years from now we are struggling to make it out of the 2nd round, then we work on fine tuning the roster from there.
Philly would love Fox, he can work the 3 quarters in the playoffs so Embiid can save his energy for the 4th. Hali-Simmons-Buddy, I would watch this basketball hell combo.
I’d rather a Hali, Fox, Simmons trio.
Forgot that Simmons was all NBA All Defensive first team. That alone would prevent Vivek for approving a trade him.
From Bagley’s Right Hand to Simmons needs to shoot Right Handed. That’s so Kangz.
IMO, getting Simmons is going to require giving up Fox or Hali and bunch of future assets. The idea of giving up Buddy and Bagley for him is a non-starter for Philly, IMO. A 3 time all-star and first team an defense 24 year old, regardless of his shooting issues is worth more than and overpaid Buddy and overhyped Bagley.
From that, I think a lot of things can change come tomorrow’s lottery. If the Kings somehow jump into the top 4 the Kings should think long and hard about moving Fox for Simmons, because that is a deal I think Philly will listen to.
Should the Kings land Suggs or Green at #3 or #4, they should absolutely move Fox for Simmons, hand the keys to Hali and go from there. Like Marty said in the other thread, the key to unlocking Simmons potential, and hiding his offensive weakness is to use him as a small center. Think Draymond Green or Bam Adebayo. A Hali, Suggs/Green, Buddy, Barnes Simmons small ball lineup could be something special.
Now, if the Kings stay at #9 and a player like Davion Mitchell drops to them or Josh Giddey impress in workouts you still have to think about moving Fox for Simmons. Either of those guys could be a solid backcourt pairing with Hali
My issue with exchanging Fox for Simmons as more or less a straight-up deal, is that Fox’s speed makes him so unique and causes so many problems for defenses that, all-star nods or not, of the two, I prefer Fox. If you’ve gotta have a bucket, it’s just no contest.
Simmons is certainly something of an outlier with his size and skills, but my half-assed math looks at it this way: The ppg benefit that you’d get from Simmons defensively wouldn’t offset the loss of Fox’s scoring. The assists are pretty much a wash, and the difference in rebounds isn’t enough to make it worthwhile with the hole in scoring you’d get.
I’d like to see what it would look like having Fox & Haliburton as the back court, with Simmons still doing some facilitating on offense, and playing like a traditional big that doesn’t stretch the floor, and siccing him on the other team’s best offensive player, since he can legitimately cover almost anyone.
The pick is a real wildcard, especially if it jumps up, since you may be able to alleviate some of the team’s problems by getting the right kind of player. If it jumps into the top four, then any trade it might be used in is going to have to net more than just Ben Simmons.
Tuesday could be pretty exciting, and even if it isn’t, it will definitely clarify what kind of deals may be realistic. I still like the idea of going after Draymond Green, he’d provide real leadership and toughness. No one gets to go slack on the defensive end if Draymond is in their ears.
True about Draymond, and he could possibly be had for a lot less. I think he is best used at the 5 spot on a small ball lineup so I wonder with the Dubs committed to Wiseman means Green is more expendable.
Maybe they’d be willing for a clean Barnes for Green swap. It saves them quite a bit in tax and allows them to run Barnes at the 4.
That might work for Golden State. It allows the to shave off a year of salary, since Green’s contract is longer, and straight-up, lowers their team salary.
It feels like one party will need to include a sweetener to get the other team to bite, but I honestly don’t know which team that would be. One-for-one makes sense to me, but I’d bet the Warriors want to squeeze a pick out of it.
Maybe something simple a few 2nd rounders? Warriors are also just gonna need some cheap bodies as they are so capped out. Maybe throw in a Justin James, Jahmi’us Ramsey, etc.
A lot of very good points here. I think it’s odd that some fans wouldn’t acquire Simmons for what is a very small cost (on Twitter, Carmichael Dave did a poll and as of this morning a decent majority of fans wouldn’t trade Hield + Bagley + the #9-12 pick (assuming we don’t jump) for Simmons.
That said, I think you are right that the price will be much higher. And our calculations might change depending on the lottery. Though I don’t share your same confidence in Davion Mitchell or really anybody we might get at #9 changing the equation.
Yeah, that’s asinine. Hield, Bagley + the 9-12 is about as no-brainer as it gets.
He’s gonna end up fetching a lot more than that.
Yeah, i wouldn’t part with the pick if it was top 3-5, but the ninth pick is an easy toss on with Hield and Bagley. Turning a disaster #2 pick, overpaid shooter, and a lottery pick into a 24 yr old All-Star DPOY is a swindle.
I would still part with the pick at 3-5. Simmons is a proven All-Star and arguably the best backcourt defender in the game. Whomever the Kings draft at 3-5 would be very unlikely, statistically, to reach Simmons’ current level. Offloading Hield is almost addition by subtraction, and Bagley is loose change.
The 3rd pick in this draw is going to be worth ALOT, you’re basically offering Mobley or Suggs to someone.
Now 4-9 would be worth it IMO.
Right, it would be. I know a lot of folks would disagree, but I would still move that pick for a return that includes Simmons. Maybe I’m just (too) risk-averse by nature, but I’d rather have the sure-fire “A” player than the prospect with the theoretical “A+” ceiling, because it is just that–theoretical.
I think Mobley & Suggs have so much potential that trading 1 of them for Simmons would feel like a major risk to me.
I understand this ‘bird in the hand’ logic. I wouldn’t hate the Kings for trading a Top 3 pick for a sure thing like Simmons, but to me Suggs is a franchise-changing type player and I feel confident in his ability to reach that level. Mobley is unreal but I always get uneasy about guys that tall and that skinny making it in the league and would see him as too risky. Basically, my algebra is Hield + Bagley + Mobley = good value for Simmons. Hield + Bagley + Suggs might equal another major blunder when we reflect in a few years.
I rather draft someone that is younger and can shoot.
I think Mobley & Suggs definitely have enough potential to be better than Simmons & at least 1 of them will be available at #3.
This isn’t a no brainer cost. I get people’s point, and I’m hesitant to include the pick because there’s plenty of unknown with Ben Simmons. Worth acquiring, but he’s worth acquiring for the right price. Barnes + Bagley is the right price, IMO.
I don’t think the Sixers are going to trade him for that package anyway, I think they have eyes for Damian Lillard and I’ll maintain that until the actual trade of Simmons happens (which feels very inevitable and felt inevitable all along honestly).
But I get your point too: To get something you have give up something. I don’t think I rate Simmons as high an asset as you do, and that’s the main difference. But it’s certainly worth thinking and debating whether the opportunity cost is worth it. Ben Simmons isn’t nothing, but it’s not a straight forward no brainer. To include the 9th pick (or whatever it ends up in that range if the Kings pick there), I’d need more information than what I currently have.
Fair enough. I’d be wary about a top 4 pick. But I personally wouldn’t let a gamble on someone like Wagner or Moody prevent me from getting Simmons.
The more I watch Moody, the more I suspect he isn’t an NBA level athlete. His inability to finish around the rim with his size and length is a real red flag. And it’s not like he doesn’t have touch, it often seems he just can’t jump with the other guys. Wagner will be a long-time pro just for his defensive acuity alone and anything beyond that is a cherry on top.
Finally, some sanity about what is required to land a player like Simmons. It takes a lot more than 2 players that only Kings fans value: Hield and Bagley.
I also think that the damage to Simmons’ trade value is overstated. He hasn’t performed well in the role assigned to him in Philly. But other teams know that he could be very effective in a different one, like the small ball center one mentioned here. He’s only 24, and will be a great passer, rebounder and lock down defender for years to come.
I’m generally more favorable about Buddy and Bagley than most, and even my takes don’t overvalue either of them.
With Marvin, my position is that because of the injuries, and well, Kangz, it’s difficult to know what he may become going forward. He’s definitely got some serious holes in his game, but I’m not prepared to write off his career at this point. If he manages a serviceable NBA career, it won’t be in Sacramento. He was never going to live up to the expectations plunked on him from VD taking him at two. He is, if nothing else, now a large expiring contract, and those always have value.
For Hield, he remains a career 40%+ shooter from distance, is among the best in rebounding for his position, and has improved his ability to facilitate on offense. In his current role, he’s overpaid, but I think he’d be hell on wheels in a Lou Williams/Jordan Clarkson-type role, or just playing for a coach that insisted that Hield never bring the ball up the floor after a made basket.
I have no insider knowledge of interest by other teams, but I’d imagine that Philly would’ve liked to be able to bring Hield in with their second unit. I don’t believe that there are no other organizations or fans that wouldn’t like having that kind of scoring ability on their teams. If anything, Hield is undervalued by fans in Sacramento, if I’m basing it on what I read here, which one shouldn’t.
Where is this legion of fans holding Hield and Bagley in so much esteem? You’d still need to throw in the nine pick, but depending on which team, that package could yield something pretty decent that could improve things here.
Appreciate the thoughtful response. I consider Bagley as a trade throw in at best, he can’t defend and looks utterly lost on both ends of the floor. He doesn’t show enough to justify the time and effort it would take a team to try to fix those problems. Not enough upside, I guess. Hield could produce in the right system, but he would have to accept a lesser role and a team would have to be willing to take on the remainder of his contract.
All sensible positions, here. I’d quibble by mentioning that going forward, Hield’s contract might seem more manageable than Simmons’, particularly if the latter is unable to develop even a rudimentary scoring ability.
In Sacramento, I’d expect that he’d get a lot more transition opportunities running with Fox, and he absolutely excels at those. In Philly, with Embiid in the game, a defense couldn’t possibly afford to double-team Hield, and Buddy has always been willing to run himself open for a good look. As you said, Bagley would be a throw-in, but even if he never touched the floor for the Sixers, he’s off the books in twelve months.
I agree that Hield could improve dramatically on a team like the 76ers, where he would get to play to his strengths.
Simmon’s trade value has in fact plummeted, but not because his skillset has all-of-a-sudden gone away (although his obvious flaws were highlighted for all to see and he is not a good fit on that roster).
The biggest issue is that his team’s leaders blamed the entire series loss on him alone, he can’t play there anymore…that’s what happens when someone is used as a scapegoat, whether it was partially/entirely earned or not.
Yeah, the way he got immediately thrown under the bus was ugly. There’s some pre-existing bad blood there that must go way back, long before the ATL series.
While I do think he is the type of situation the Kings need to be looking for (talented player with an issue/risk on or off the court), but I don’t like this overall. His contract is a huge commitment, and the Kings aren’t loaded with shooters off the ball to make it an ideal fit.
I love his playmaking and his defense (which is much needed), I just feel like it has a good chance of not working out and creating minimal flexibility if it doesn’t work.
I love some of the takes here:
Kangz fans for the last 10 years, “We need an All Star level player and more talent to compete”
Kangz fans today, “he’s a pretty good player, but I’ll pass…”
The perfect All-Star player isn’t walking through that door folks.
We went Rock Bottom, then drilled past Earth’s Magma Core into Basketball Hell. Except for Hali, everyone else should be allowed to leave the Devil’s Lair.
Those two statements aren’t mutually exclusive. No question they have to take on someone with warts in a trade scenario, but you don’t just take anyone with talent.
$126 million over 4 years for someone who can’t shoot, it’s worth an argument. He’s a very nice player, but a very specific fit, and do the Kings have enough shooting up and down the roster to take him on?
Simmons makes a lot of sense with this roster. I doubt we don’t get out-bid, but if something like Barnes, Bagley, and ’23 1st, gets the job done then Simmons defense, rebounding and passing would be a huge boon. He also fits the Fox-Hali timeline. We’d just need shooters at the other two spots, so maybe you can even justify hanging onto Buddy at that point (not that it’s a choice). Kings should definitely kick the tires.
Fox-Hali-Buddy-Simmons-Holmes anyone? ð¤
Id move Fox for him, personally
I think Simmons is more talented, and a reason why Philly has the much better record
Fox and Walton are like oil/water, a player who needs to be ridden hard to perform consistently and a milquetoast coach, so its hard to see Fox’s true value
But leopards don’t change spots a lot of the time. Seems Fox wont have his imprint on half the games and not play to his ability defensively. But he did better with Joerger, so hard to defintively say it
Still, Id take Simmons
I would, too. Simmons might help cover for a lot of Buddy’s defensive deficiencies, and get him the ball with good looks.
Philly’s championship window is closing. Fox is the only one that makes sense, maybe Hali but he’ll be a 2nd year player. No other Kangz is a championship game changer for them.
I don’t understand getting someone to cover for Buddy’s deficiencies. Buddy isn’t that good. He needs to be traded with or without Simmons.
How does Fox need to be ridden hard to perform consistently when he just had his best season under said milquetoast coach?
Carrying this team on offense btw. Gotta be the hottest take on Fox I’ve heard.
Fox had his best offensive season, but he was awful defensively. I wouldn’t trade him for Simmons, but he has flaws.
I don’t think were getting Simmons without giving up Fox, Haliburton, or our first rounder.
Would probably have to give up the first and Haliburton.
I knew this story was coming¦ No God please just no.
Anyone that needs work is not someone that I would trade for. This team has a stellar track record of players developing in-spite of the kings best efforts, not the other way around.
The swing for the fences that Petrie took back in the day for Webber was risky because of Webber’s attitude and off court drama. Never his talent.
Rick was the right coach for his attitude to develop and that front office was the right level of hard ass to get him in line and also show him how much he could mean.
Those days are gone forever. But still the best hope for lightning in a bottle for a game changer trade isn’t going to be for a better defensive version of Markelle Fultz.
This team can’t manage the mental well-being of the fan base with stability yet this is the place for Ben Simmons to get his groove back?
Wow, that escalated quickly! I saw the trade Ben Simmons stuff and I was pondering, would I want him here for Buddy or Barnes and filler. But reading TKH I see a crap ton of people saying trade him for Fox. That is certifiably nuts! He literally just got done with a series where he was too scared to shoot in the 4th quarter. Plus, he’s never been a good shooter in a shooter’s league. Plus, he’s owed like $144 million over several years. I’m not even sure I want him for Buddy / Barnes?
You mean the playoff series?
Yes, the playoff series. By that logic, everyone on Philly’s roster is better than anyone on the Kings because they made the playoffs. The dude had to be pulled in the 4th quarter. How is he just going to “fix” that. He also shot like 25% from the line. I could probably live with that, but $144 million for a flawed star who can’t shoot. I’m a hard pass, except maybe for our 9th, 10th whatever pick, and Hield or Barnes. Even then, I’m holding my breath I didn’t make a BIG mistake.
Not everyone on Philly’s roster, but surely the high-end players (you know, the guys that have made multiple All-Star and All-NBA teams).
Haven’t the Kings spent over $160 million on a player who can’t defend?
The Kings signed Fox to that extension, but they haven’t paid him that amount yet. Not even close. In fact, they haven’t paid a dollar of that extension yet.
https://hoopshype.com/player/deaaron-fox/salary/
If they traded Fox for Simmons, they wouldn’t!
There’s a lot more to the NBA than shooting the ball, which may partially explain why the Kings have been so horrible with Vivek as owner. But the Kings will never trade for him anyway, and it will be interesting to see who does, and how their team does with him. I expect significant improvement.
Simmons has obvious issues on offense, but the fact that he has been required to blend his game with Embiid tends to get glossed over. I can see him playing well in another system (Lillard and Simmons wound be devastating), and it is entirely possible that he would regain a lot of his lost confidence. He would improve the Nuggets significantly, too.
Simmons is an incredible talent that needs a change of scenery. His passing skills, his defense, his rebounding are hard to find, and will stay with him until he’s over 30. He will never lose his BBIQ. Unfortunately for the Kings, the cost, both in terms of what the team would need to offer to get him, and the length and amount of contract, makes a trade here implausible. I can’t see the Kings taking on his contract with this ownership.
I know that this will provoke outrage, but Simmons is better than anyone on the Kings roster, including Fox. Haliburton is the only player on this team who might develop into his equal.
Saying Simmons is better than anyone on the Kings’ roster shouldn’t provoke outrage. It should provoke nodding heads and calls of “duh!”. Simmons is the caliber of player Fox MIGHT become, if he takes another big “leap.” That’s a mighty big if.
In other news, Vivek’s administrative assistant/good luck charm “McGenius” will be representing the KIngs at the lottery tomorrow. Go Silver, please throw us yet another bone!
Any Trade starts with either Hali/Fox. Philly will hang up the phone, otherwise.
Hali, Bagley, Hield and this years 1st and Next Year’s Top 5 protected. Even that, I am not sure they listen.
For all of Simmons issues. He’s been 1st team All Defense 3 years running. He can guard 1-5 on the floor. His explosiveness and Athleticism can move him to the 4-5.
Simmons would literally help make the putrid Sac D a Top 10 one.
I tend to agree with the first line of your post…
But if the Kings offer Hali/Hield/Bagley and 2 likely lottery picks (9-14) and Morey still won’t listen, then I know one thing for sure.
Ben Simmons isn’t getting traded. Can’t fathom a team beating that offer. Nor should they.
After the post-game press conference, there is no way Simmons is a 76er next year.
I shudder to think of what Philadelphia talk radio and blogosphere is saying about Simmons today. It makes me feel bad for the guy.
Yeah I get that…kinda the point. The offer mentioned above is monstrous for the guy who now for several years has shown playoff limitations. If he has to be gone as you say, why offer all that?
That said, he doesn’t have to be gone…if the best offer they receive is Hield and Bagley, then he will remain a 76er. Seems unlikely that is the best offer he could get, but Morey isn’t dumb enough to sell for nothing or other terrible contracts. He at least needs something tangible back or create space to go get someone else.
Unfortunately Vlade doesn’t run the 76ers.
We aren’t that far apart in our thinking, that trade offer is WAY TOO much.
I know Simmons has talent and worth to other teams, but the 76ers only have 2-3 year window to compete for a championship left (at the most) considering Embiid’s health. They simply cannot run back the same core team.
Some team may end of giving Philly fair value, but I wouldn’t do it.
Simmons would be the best player the Kings have had in Sacramento since Chris Webber. His court vision and defensive skills are top shelf.
The 76ers are in a bad place with Simmons. Both their best player and their coach threw him under the bus with no remorse, I don’t see Simmons ever playing again for Philly.
His value is at an all-time low and he HAS to be moved now. He’s become the scapegoat for the team losing a 3-1 lead in the series and for the coach getting out-classed again, he’s also earned the fan’s ire.
We should definitely try to add a player of his caliber, but there are other teams that can offer better deals (Indy, Portland, & OKC in particular), so put your best offer out there and see if they’re interested but don’t chase the trade. I think its important to keep in mind that we can’t overlook how much Simmons is getting paid.
I think Indy offers Turner, Portland offers McCollum, and OKC offers picks. IMO, 76ers take Turner as he’s the best fit in a starting 5 alongside Maxey/Thybulle/Harris/Turner/Embiid. The 76ers don’t need rookies or picks because the window with Embiid is closing.
Felt like we just saw a series in which Philly’s biggest problem was playmaking from a wing or guard position. What does Turner do for them? I get he can shoot a bit and play interior D but that doesn’t seem to be their biggest problem.
I think that starting 5 listed also gets bounced in the second round. If that… Very little proven shooting with any type of volume besides Harris I guess.
While I agree w/most of this, I think McCollum would be the best fit in Philly. I don’t think Embiid & Turner would be a good fit.
McCollum is a great fit too.
Yes. Kangz need a talent upgrade asap
Some guy named Ben who defends, rebounds, but can’t shoot…
“But he wasn’t the main ball handler…”
Then build around that. It’s called team building not single player building.
To borrow from Moneyball…we could never get Lebron…but can we get Lebron in the aggregate?
If we could somehow swing Buddy & Barnes, for him I would do it. Otherwise not really interested. I want the ball in Halliburton and Fox’s hands. He could be a nice fit with Bagley, where they fill opposite needs both defense and offense, except at the FT line where they’ve both been garbage.
We need good vibes for the ping pong balls tomorrow….It’s the only way it’s gonna happen. Pray if your religious.. or put it out in the universe if your a hippy…but I’m going with the Schwartz. We’re getting a top 3 pick.
We are getting the TOP pick !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am excited !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I struggle with the you gotta trade Ben Simmons narrative because you lost to the Atlanta Hawks in the 2nd round of the playoffs. People are taking a too pessimistic view. They were the top seed in the East last year and choked away two huge leads in Games 4 and 5. I would certainly take the Sixers’ problem over the problems of a lot of teams. Also when has the Sixers’ expectations ever been consistently winning a championship. They are not the Lakers, Celtics or Warriors.
I certainly don’t see Philly selling low on Ben Simmons. He would certainly be an excellent pick up for the Kings if they could acquire him especially on the defensive end and playmaker. If you wanted Simmons, you would have to trade Haliburton and the lottery pick. Philly still may say no to that considering they were in contention for James Harden last season.
Just my 2 cents on the Simmons in Philly dynamic.
Simmons needs an hour a day in a couch talking to a sports psychiatrist, 3 hours day shooting free throws and 3 hours shooting threes.
Real life: Ben Simmons sucks and scored four points in a Game 7.
Kings fans: Can we trade for him?
If we couldn’t take Luka because he would take the ball out of Fox’s hands, exactly WITF is Ben Simmons going to do for us?
Buddy + Bagley + tonight’s lotto pick for Simmons … done deal.
If the price is low then absolutely buy low on Simmons. He came in as a PG but as some of you alluded to earlier he may be best as a C. In fact, none other than former Kings coach Dave Joeger describes Philly’s experimentation with him at C. Im not sure what the market is for him but we have to consider using tradeable assets anytime there is an opportunity to upgrade talent. If Simmons is out there with four shooters I think its reasonable to believe lineups might work. In Philly Embiid is always there at C. Not so here. The only possible issue is floor spacing as Fox needs room to get into the paint and moving Simmons to C may occupy some of that space. Other than that, he’s worth a shot and he upgrades our talent base, passing and rebounding as well as team defense.
See what Joeger said about him in this article:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/ben-simmons-dwight-howard-sixers-film-review-doc-rivers-dave-joerger-nba%3famp
Wouldn’t it be nice to have a coach that understands changing players roles and adjustments?
https://twitter.com/stephenasmith/status/1407379365126623242?s=20
but then you’ve also got stuff like this out there….
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2016/06/10/insider-ben-simmons-workouts/
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18773006/philadelphia-76ers-players-laud-ben-simmons-work-ethic-positivity
So, which is it?
Kings got to at least make an offer. Blazers, T-wolves, Warriors are rumored to be interested. Even if the Kings don’t get him, you got to set the bar and not make it easy for another Western Conference team to get him.
Badge Legend