Fire up the old Tankathon, kids. Your Sacramento Kings are pretty bad.
Sure, there was a moment of hope when the Kings won 7 of 8 games, but on the heels of a fresh 7 game losing streak, we must recognize that stretch for what it was. The Kings were healthy and firing on all cylinders, and they played a bunch of teams that weren’t at full strength. Now its the Kings who are missing players, and the complete lack of depth is painfully obvious. Outside of those 8 great games, the Kings are 5-17 for the year, and proudly sport one of the worst defenses ever in NBA history.
But there are still reasons to watch and think about the future. Aside from the obvious draft implications of being a bad team (and this can’t be said enough, this is a great year to have a high draft pick), there are on court glimpses of hope too.
Despite his recent regression, De’Aaron Fox has shown that he can absolutely be an All-Star caliber player. His current dip in production, and the Kings stacking up losses, almost surely means he won’t be named as an All-Star reserve this year, but that was unlikely regardless of these last six games. It doesn’t matter, we’ve seen what the next level looks like for Fox.
We’ve also seen how well Tyrese Haliburton pairs with Fox as a secondary creator who can punish a defense with his passing and his scoring. Landing one of the best rookies in the last draft class is still worth being excited about.
Marvin Bagley has given even the most jaded of Kings fans reasons for hope. While his defense is still largely atrocious, we can see the small improvements from game to game. And with Bagley showing growth on offense as well, it’s nice to see Bagley shedding the “bust” label. He will never live up to his draft position or being taken over other members of his draft class, but Bagley is carving out an NBA future for himself.
And finally, it seems the Kings have found two young, low-cost wing players in DaQuan Jeffries and Robert Woodard II. Although we’ve only seen Woodard play real minutes in the G League, what we’ve seen is enough to get excited for the type of contributor he could be off the Kings bench.
I understand anyone who came into this season with higher hopes. I understand anyone who doesn’t want to hear about the moral victories or the way this could matter next year. Believe me. I’ve been covering this team long enough that we’ve all heard the platitudes before and seen them fail to end the playoff drought.
I’m not here to pretend the future is fine, but there are pieces worth building around for the future. It’s up to Monte McNair’s front office to build around those pieces. It’s encouraging that we at least have some young pieces worth building around, and even more encouraging that two of those were brought in by McNair himself. As the Kings trudge through another lost season, I’m going to focus on those bright spots as much as I can.
It’s weird to think that the team is well into its second decade of being pretty terrible. As you said, though, there are legitimate reasons to be hopeful for better days, if not necessarily great ones.
It’s downright nuts that we’re on the playoff-less streak we are on.
I was there for the late 80’s early 90’s Kings drought. That was bleak, and this is…bleaker. 🙁
“Will the Kings future be looking less bleak?”
What really gets me is when I think back to all the hours I logged online, listening on radio, and watching the games in the last ten years, thinking we were a few years away. The trade scenarios, game analysis, arguments etc….FOR WHAT!
For the thick creamy shakes?
The presence of Luke Walton is a downer, and the roster is in a state of flux. That said, Haliburton has been a must-watch.
Yep he’s the reason I keep tuning in. Last night was a mostly terrible game but watching Haliburton is a treat.
Not a real suggestion in any way, just checking the temperature of the waters lol
Would you trade fox for Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge?
I think I would, long term I have to feel like they would turn us around much faster.
Stevens, yes. Ainge, no. He’s been coasting on past success for awhile now. His war chest of picks turned out to be nothing because he won’t trade any of them for anything substantive. I feel like he tries to fleece every team he trades with and that’s why deals don’t get done.
Agreed. You would think with that kind of draft capital they would have a stronger bench than they do.
He did make the trades to win an NBA title and several 50 plus win teams ! I would like a chance at a person that did that ! Agree, he may have over played his hand of late but season not over ! Still partial to proven champion as a player and GM !
I think they gotta take Kangz out of the algorithm.
Tyrese is my hope. The kid just looks so solid. I’m not sure he’s ever gonna be an all-star, but he’s going to be a highly impactful player for the Kings for years to come.
Other than that, I’m just waiting on McNair to make a big move that will enlighten us all in what the future is planned to be.
OT: Check out this thread by Richard. I really paints a picture of the financial hindrances to building with the current core, including Barnes and Buddy. It seems to me the team is built to win now with the contracts and age of the core players, but certainly aren’t built properly to make that a reality.
I only read the first of the 6 and it depressed me…
In a nutshell, only 10 teams have players locked in at contracts like those who are 28 years or older. 8 are contending teams with high priced and high performing vets, as one might expect. The other two are Houston and Washington with two of the worst deals in the NBA with Westbrook and Wall.
Kings are basically paying out deals like contenders but performing like pretenders.
Their cap sheet is the very definition of late lottery purgatory.
Yeah I went back and read it. Imagine if our very well paid team execs had the mental fortitude of the fans who break this stuff down for free.
Ken Catanella was one of the NBA’s negotiators when they negotiated the CBA a decade ago. He’s a cap and analytics expert, who also played in college and is a former scout and assistant coach. I’m pretty sure he can make a spreadsheet, and understand that it’s probably not good to allocate that much money to vets if it leads to underwhelming on-court results. And he’s like the 3rd or 4th highest ranked member of the front office depending on how much actual power former GM Joe Dumars has.
This isn’t to disparage Richard, he provided useful context for why Barnes and/or Buddy need to go. It’s just that it’s probably best to assume that execs (outside of Vlade) know their shit. They’re just competing against 29 other front offices who know their shit as well.
Solid point.
It occurs to me only just now that a good comparison for Haliburton as he grows is CJ McCollum, perhaps with less scoring, but with way better defense.
When CJ declared for the draft, I didn’t know a lot about him, because he went to Lehigh. His interviews were so damned good, you could instantly tell how bright he was, and despite the lack of big school pedigree, he seemed like a guy who would be willing to put in the necessary work, and use his smarts to gain advantage. By the time the draft got to the seventh pick, I was still hoping that he might get selected by Sacramento, but wasn’t particularly surprised that they jumped on McLemore when he was still available. McLemore’s pedigree was better, and he had been talked about as going top three, or at worst top five. Live and learn, I guess.
I blather about this because I’m certain that Haliburton’s smarts combined with his excellent instincts could allow him to become a McCollum-type player: A big contributor that doesn’t necessarily need to be the best player on his team. That’s good value for any player, whether selected at one, or all the way down at twelve. I don’t think it’s far-fetched that he could have that kind of ceiling.
I like McCollum. They both have an old school game. The way McCollum maneuvers through pick and rolls should be something Tyrese mirrors. I dont see Tyrese being as lethal a scorer as McCollum but would be amazing to see.
When I see Tyrese, I see Shaun Livingston with extended range and less physicals. Both incredibly smart, winning, and lengthy players. I hope Tyrese can put some good weight on as he gets older.
I’m still going with Michael Brogdon. Both have the instincts on both ends of the floor and both don’t impress you too much with their athleticism, but somehow overcome that with craftiness. You blink and they give you 20, 8,and 5 while making a teammate the star of the night.
I fucking love that.
Agree, more Malcolm Brogdan and could in my opinion run a team effectively !
I’ll allow it.
Thanks Vlade!
At this point, you either
1) Trade Buddy ASAP the minute he has a hot stretch of games
2) Trade Buddy for ANY compensation, even 2nd rounders, and other struggling younger players whose contract matches his
3) Attach our own future draft capital (heavily protected, preferably the furthest picks possible) to simply get rid of the contract and open a starting spot for Hali.
4) I would say keep Barnes as he plays well but not well enough to affect the tank, is a professional, when his contract ages, his value increases since he plays a premium position so there’s more incentive to keep him and trade him later. But if you can trade Barnes for 1st rounders do it.
I might have been with you on Barnes but: 1. his value is abt as high as its ever been right now, 2. his disappearing act in some recent blowouts, when the team could really use a vet stepping up, was disappointing.
I do agree about his value being high right now, but if this is truly a new Barnes we’re seeing, the only thing keeping him from having max trade value is the 2 years $40 million left on his deal, especially if a playoff team wants picks him up. As the years decrease, I think he’ll continue to play this way well and his value will only go up because there will be even more suitors for him.
This is good
The emergence of Jeffries is a welcome sign, and of course watching Hali on a nightly basis is fantastic.
And as much weight is on the shoulders of Bagley to perform, he is showing signs of growth, given the expectations of being such a high draft pick.
I can be a big critic of Bagley, but scoring 26, although in a loss, is no small feat in the NBA.
All in all, I believe Walton has to go first before we shuffle the roster.
While Bagley is showing on Offense he really seems happy to be playing D!
Baglye has been playing quite nicely, especially on offense lately, but this is nonsense. Donte Greene once scored 31, in only his second season in the NBA.
So far, this is going just abt as well as I could have hoped: Fox has had moments of stardom, Halliburton is a steal, Bagley has improved…, Barnes is having a great year, the team’s draft position is improving everyday…. The only disappointment has been with Buddy and the underwhelming year he has had.
My optimism will be based on trades made before the deadline, and in the offseason, and what Monte can get for Barnes and/or Buddy.
Buddy has been a huge disappointment. He hasn’t even cracked 30 points this season.
If Buddy was normal Buddy, I can see the Kings with as least 2-3 more wins, just guessing.
I’m really beginning to think Buddy has hit his peak and this is who he is. He’s not going to being much else to the table than his shooting. He’s a streaky to hot shooter from deep that is becoming ever more replaceable on a cheaper deal by other players.
He’s becoming Eric Gordon 2.0.
The problem I fear is his skillset will become less desired and more readily available in the league faster than his declining contract. Basically as his contract descends over the years, his value will fall even faster thus negating his structured deal.
Except Eric Gordon was a really good defender and could play make a little bit before he got to Houston. He’s like a very poor man’s Eric Gordon 2.0.
But that was years ago in his LA, and N.O. before he turned 28. Buddy shouldn’t get to that point for a few more years…. oh wait.
Here is the link to both players at age 28.
Buddy’s played only 30 games to Gordon’s 78, but the advanced stats and Per numbers tell the story.
It’s unfortunate that Buddy looks out of shape this season. I don’t think Buddy is this bad, his best is more in line with past two years, but it’s just KANGZ luck that THIS is the season he decides to show up out of shape, to tanking his value. In shape Buddy gets at least a 1st for sure.
I truly believe a whole offseason removed from his COVID diagnosis and an offseason to get his body right will make him more efficient again. But he’ll probably and SHOULD BE playing for another team by next season.
Do people really think Buddy is out of shape?
I know, I don’t get it. He looks to be in pretty good shape to me.
He looks huge, slow, and is short on alot of his jumpers.
Whether if it’s just conditioning or after effects of his COVID tests something isn’t right.
You can’t tell me that a shooter forgot to shoot or he’s forgotten how to drive past anyone or finish at the rim all by himself.
He looks bigger.
Kind of the way Bibby looked bigger in his final few Kings years.
Here’s the thing, I’m not sure it helps his style of game. Buddy doesn’t body folks, draw contact, or post up, so why bulk up? If he is heavier, then it likely affects his lift and release.
Just my opinion, but top shelf shooters tend to have slimmer frames and agile reflexes. Buddy’s frame have seemed to gone the opposite direction or a bruiser and power player, like Westbrook or LBJ.
Seems in good condition but heavier ! Much like Bibby in his late years and he was much less productive as well ! Seems, a solid point, especially with wing shooters ! Reggie Miller, Ray Allen and Lou Williams come to mind ! Good for a long time M
The only reason I can think to why he’s bigger is MAYBE he wanted to bulk up to play small ball 3, perhaps because Cojo and Tyrese were likely taking backup 1 and 2 minutes and the team was committing to small ball.
Probably unlikely, but I’m just grasping at straws at this point.
Total left turn, but your slim and agile point makes me think of how well Desmond Bane is shooting. Buff and wingspan shorter than his height. That’s just weird. He looks like taller Ty Lawson.
If only Redditers could boost up that stock.
Monte, to have any chance to turn this team,must Draft well again and make at least one solid trade! If not, bottom feeders again ! Deadline coming and hoping !
It’s very hard to watch the games, especially since this catastrophic stretch began, with any kind of excitement. I watch for Haliburton and Jeffries but other than that it’s just terrible. It will remain that way as long as Luke is coach as well. With him at the helm, I don’t even feel like I’m watching the young guys develop… I feel like I’m just watching their gifted talent of playing basketball but without a bigger picture behind it.
It’s pretty ridiculous that we still have him. At least if we were under an interim coach, we would know that the wheels of progress were moving forward and we could be hopeful for next season. As it is right now, all we are doing is hoping that is the case behind the scenes.
As nice a guy as Joseph seems, I can’t watch another 30+ min game from him. He’s awful at basically everything. Then there is Buddy. I am pretty tired of watching the jacked contested threes, the turnovers, the blowbys on defense… the fact that he quite literally is able to do whatever he wants is insane.
There is no accountability on this team. No identity. No nothing. Two years ago we were known for pace, last year it was pace but because we had none, this year is just like… frantic basketball. That’s our brand. Frantic, no consequence, defenseless basketball and it sucks. We don’t have the skill to pull that off and we certainly don’t have the coaching to do it.
I’m tired of tanking and I’m tired of excuses. This team needs to get their shit together. They should consider themselves VERY fortunate that no fans are allowed in G1C because the boos would be relentless. I have a Kings poster up in my office that says SACTOWN – ONE. PROUD. CITY. Sure would be nice if they would back that up with their play once or twice in the last 14 years.
Not advocating for Cory to get more shots at all, but he’s taken 3 shots in 51 minutes the last two games with no defensive impact.
Not saying he’s Draymond at all, but he’s like Draymond in saying he looks great on a playoff team, but doesn’t help a team that sucks.
The word to describe the Kings over the last few seasons is FRAGILE. Not in the toughness sense, but in the roster-construction sense. When the team is 100% present and everybody is playing at or near their potential, the team is fine (see: winning 7 of 8). When just one thing goes wrong–an injured player (see: Barnes), a traded “glue guy” (see: Iman Shumpert), a poor shooting streak (see: Buddy)–the whole thing collapses like a child’s block tower built on puffy shag carpeting. There simply isn’t enough talent–basketball talent, emotional talent, intellectual talent, cultural talent–to overcome any kind of adversity. This team is the kid who fails a test at school because their pencil breaks and they just sit there instead of asking the teacher for a new one.
That’s good simile, it is.
Greg ruined my marriage…
I’m prepared to go forward with the tank.
The look of a lawyer trying to backtrack?
Kings fans are truly the best. Sticking with this team and being so passionate about the team through thick and thin.
(Mostly thin.)
I don’t know about you all but I’m quite a bit thicker than when the playoff drought started
My hair is thinner.
You two sound like Quint and Hooper comparing scars
I had zero white hairs when I started following the team around 2000. Pay no attention to the wife and kids factor.
If the kangz ends up with 17 wins or less this season I think it’s fair to say this is the worst
“‘Things I will not be listening to’ for $1,000, please.”
edit (yowzers)
I truly dislike Grant, but this may be too good to miss…
Good thing I don’t listen to the podcast at all!
“Racial issues” with George Karl
The Kings-bashing should be absolutely magical. I mean, we’re talking two guys who’ve been unceremoniously dismissed by one of the worst organizations in the league, with the results being that both of their chosen career choices are over with.
No way either of them have developed any scar tissue over those wounds, and probably keep picking at them so that they never heal. This is Richard Nixon being interviewed by Roger Ailes. This is a hate-listen for the ages.
Still may prove to be accurate and true ! Disliking some people does not affect the truth !
“It’s true! All lives do matter!”
I’m hoping for two years of 20 wins or less and I like my chances much more than if I were hoping for the eight seed.
The main reason to be hopeful is the new GM made a stellar first impression, he got the draft right, with a little bit of luck perhaps; he did not make any major blunders in free agency, getting value for Whiteside at minimum. And the trade that fell through was prescient, since DeVincenzo is a nice two way player who would have been lovely fit.
It would be hopeless in my mind if Vlade was still in charge and swinging in the dark, making moves to correct previous mistakes and generally embarassing himself with his poor work ethic and glibness. The guy picked after Ty at #13 was Kira Lewis J, shooting 37% FGs and scoring 5 PPG. Can you imagine if this was the new GMs first draft pick? Then it would be hopeless, then it would at least feel like a continuation of a GM with no eye for talent and discernment.
Vlade would probably given Bogi what he wanted, and would’ve went with a frontline player, anticipating a logjam in the backcourt if he added Haliburton. Even if Vlade picked Ty, that could have been chalked up to luck, given his track record of misses, and it would only be a matter of time before another regretabble blunder.
Giving the max to Fox was also smart, since I have always felt he was a max player and he has shown reason to believe he has another level or two to get to. The other reason I am hopeful with this GM is he has no allegiance to the coach and is just looking for a reason to replace him, which he already has.
Secondarily HB and Holmes are having career years. And for those saying “same ol’ Kings same ol Kings” or Kangz, well guess what, it is not the same ol’ Buddy because he just to be a good player! And if he lost 10-15 pounds and regained some of the quickness he cannot aford to lose, maybe he can get back to being that good player.
5-6 games we lost this year so far we would have won if we had the old Buddy. That is how tenuous success can be , and the fine line between winning a losing. And if Kyle Guy was getting the backup minutes at PG, I think our record could be reversed too.
Rotations are fragile and one player added or subtracted to the mix can make a world of difference, as can one player being a negative to positive contributor. I don’t think the Kings are that far off though it may seem that way.
With short contracts and the CBA particulars facilitation player mobility the notion of 2-5 year rebuild is an archaic concept, used by self-serving GMs to maximize their tenure and income.
The Divincenzo thing is a bit of a blemish. He didn’t need to agree in principle on the S&T when he did. The deal may have actually happened had he just not agreed to anything until he was legally allowed to do so.
I’d be hopeful if I knew McNair was being allowed to run the show. Very hopefully if Vivek got the hell out of Sac.
I think McNair is smart enough to get this thing going if left alone. Shit, it isn’t hard to know what to do. Get a coach. Keep Hali/Fox. Don’t sink money into Bags. Trade as many as you can and rebuild.
Holding onto players/overpaying because you hope they’ll be good/a fit despite the odds is so Vlade/Vivek.
The only reason for joy is Tyrese-love him. A tad of Fox when on.
He hasn’t done anything really impressive and he hasn’t thrown up on himself. I think we’re all more optimistic with him, since he’s, you know, not Vlade.
Why is giving Fox the max smart ? You could not lose him -RFA- and protect yourself against a bad injury ! If a major injury were to occur this season this franchise is doomed !
Jerry stated in one of the podcasts that the CBA was negotiated in such a manner that teams could wait and see what the market would dictate, so why not indeed wait until RFA? It gives a team extra time to evaluate a player and also a hedge in case a player suffers a bad injury in that final contract year.
I agree with Jerry on this. I see very little upside in outbidding ourselves to lock Fox up early.
Out of curiosity, how would one tell if the Kings had moved from their current condition to “doomed?”
Fox ain’t taking the final step without a reliable three-point shot or a killer free-throw pct. He should have been there for one of those by now. Tyrese is nice, but I think he needs to be THE point guard to really make a difference. Bagley has nice skills, but he’s really a tweener and can’t handle strong big men or nimble power forwards. Daquan might be lightning in a bottle, but the odds are strongly against it.
Bottom line: It’s a mediocre foundation, but does anyone see this trio as the basis for a championship contender?
You’re thinking so far ahead.
Kings are not gonna win a title anytime soon. Teams without LBJ or KD or Steph rarely do. I’m thinking teams without Kawhi, Luka, Giannis, or AD won’t be winning anytime soon either.
I myself would take 5-10 years of battling for the 3rd-8th seed in an always competitive West with Fox, Hali, Bagley and whoever else they add and be content. If a title comes or we get any kind of superstar to lead us there I’d consider it extremely fortunate.
Funny how the Suns and Grizzlies have managed to rebuild in record time while the Kings keep treading water. It’s been two decades of franchise malpractice.
How about Indiana and Utah never rebuild but stay very good for decades !
Monte’s big offseason acquisition was Hassan Whiteside. I’m not even sold that the new GM has got potential.
Whiteside had 26/16/5 in a recent game v Nets in 24 minutes. Not good enough for you?
Oh and he’s playing for the minimum.
He’s been on 26 different teams. His reputation is fairly well known. He is not an asset.
It’s probably good to look at any GM with skepticism until they show they can put together a team that can have sustained on court success, but it’s pretty silly to call Whiteside a big offseason acquisition.
Well, he was the most notable name he acquired.
But he was signed to replace Alex Len as the backup rim protector. As of now, the only move McNair has made of any significance is drafting Haliburton, and to a lesser extent not re-signing of Bogi. Everything else has been pretty insignificant in the overall scheme of things.
Keeping Walton as head coach. 😉
I’d wager that Walton was foisted on him by management to save face on paying a guy three years’ salary to go away. McNair is a smart guy, and a smart guy wouldn’t have anything to do with Lose Walton by choice.
So you suggest that Monte is not making the big decisions that he desires ! Agree, and just Like Pete D and Vlade before ! Hope this is not the case but would not bet against it !
Vox is asking for “support” after firing all of their writers and getting tens of millions in VC money? You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.
They’re like “Hey, can you help us clean this fork we stuck in the back of everyone who worked to make our company successful?”
See? They’re still doing important work over there!
Sometimes the best move is one you don’t make. “Nothing” is often the right thing to do. Vlade never understood that. Monte does, at the very least.
All I’m saying is that signing Whiteside is not, shall we say, impressive.
I think no one can make a judgment on him so far, but one thing stands out when it comes to the draft: he drafted a do it all combo guard, a 3 and D combo forward, and a young intriguing combo guard. All have the potential to shoot.
He didn’t draft a Center or a big school junior/senior or a one-dimensional PF. He knows where this league is trending where the last GM had no clue even though the 2nd overall pick was handed to him.
Doesn’t he (or his team) need to improve for him to be considered an All-Star caliber player?
Ugh, I surrender, apparently uploading a static gif is nearly impossible now (damn kids!)
You’re right, you just don’t see guys grow and be considered all-stars when they have to do it mostly on their own. It’s different for generational guys like Lebron, who can get a team to sixty wins while surrounded by chopped liver.
Fox can be an all-star, but he’ll need competent help to get there. Haliburton is already on his way, the other recent draftees show real promise, and even Marvin looks pretty damned good on offense, and having flashes of potential on defense.
If Fox will center himself more on offense (as he did during the win streak), the only thing keeping him from being an all-star is the wealth of talent in the west, and stupid shit like Klay Thompson getting a huge amount of votes. The masses are asses.
Agree to the fullest with this.
See Devin Booker. Didn’t get any All-Star love until last year when Phoenix was actually in the hunt for the 8th seed. Even before the 8-0 bubble.
Team success plays a factor and Fox playing more consistently is a factor. All I’m saying is that at the beginning of this season there was a debate as to whether Fox could even play at that level. He’s not going to be an All-Star until he does it consistently and the Kings are better, but he’s shown the ability to play at that level.
Consistency of performance for a sustained period of time is the definition of an allstar. Jeremy Lin showed the ability to play at that level for about 15 games.
I know it sounds crazy. But, Hali would be a more effective PG for this team then Fox. Hali just sees the floor better, always 2 steps ahead of everyone else, the constant sense of urgency, and has an amazing sense at reading defenses beyond his years. I know it would never happen. But, I would love to see some switching between Hali and Fox. With Hali running the offense half the time. Fox becoming like a combo guard.
Don’t give a damn about not winning. Infact I’d consider it a great season if Fox showed all star capabilities when motivated, Halliburton showed he was one of the better rookies in the class, Bagley showed he could be a player AND the team quit on Walton to the tune of a top 5 pick. We are on line for a lot of that, though need to see more consistent things from Bagley
It’s over.
Barnes/Buddy for Blake/Bey + future lottery protected first
Badge Legend