The Kings franchise and fanbase already has more reason than most to dislike the officials and now we can add one more to the list. The NBA released their official last two minute report from last night’s game and confirmed that Miami’s Tyler Herro should have been called for a travel on his game-winning shot. Instead, no call was made and the Kings fell to 2-5 on the season. Coach Mike Brown was not pleased and made his case known immediately after the game.
Mike Brown is NOT HAPPY with the officiating in tonight's game.
He believes Tyler Herro traveled on the game-winning shot ???? pic.twitter.com/c9IzO5ucug
— Kings on NBCS (@NBCSKings) November 3, 2022
Now, there’s no guarantee that the Kings would have won the game if the play was called correctly. But they would have had a far better chance, either in those last few seconds or in an eventual overtime, but that was taken away from them. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Coach Brown ends up getting fined for telling the league exactly what was laid out in their own official report.
The NBA just needs to get rid of the Last Two Minute report already. Allegedly it is for “transparency”, but all it ends up doing is pouring salt in the wounds of fanbases and teams who end up on the wrong side of the whistle (or lack thereof in this case). At the end of the day, all that really matters is that the Heat got a W and the Kings only got an “our bad” from the league.
Is water wet? Or does water merely make things wet? Discuss
Things that are wet:
Wet wain?
Yay us.
Matters, as in it doesn’t.
Sweet. Another ‘W’ in the moral column in the standings.
That column also have the wins for not dealing with Luka’s Dad? Man is an issue.,,,,
Comstock report confirms Vivek more involved now than he’s ever been
Yeah, I saw that.
The more things change, the more they stay the same!
Sigh…
Stealing this from Rob to use here:
Extend
MontVivek!For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t consider Mastrov as an unbiased source, and one assumes his actual knowledge about the inner workings of the organization has been reduced considerably since he bailed.
Question, though: If you aren’t the team governor, as Ranadive is, are you commonly updated about every aspect of the day-to-day, or only about things relating to finances? I wouldn’t think that Vivek would be required to solicit the opinions of smaller stakeholders for moves like hiring a coach or signing free agents, and certainly not for front office moves or changes.
Assuming that’s true, smaller stakeholders would have a fairly limited knowledge about such things, and a former one considerably less. Add to this that any info that Matrov still receives is likely through other disgruntled stakeholders, and my natural skepticism makes a loud pinging sound.
What I see over the past twelve months is that the decisions about basketball are being left to basketball people, and Ranadive has nudged himself out of things to some degree. Bearing all of this in mind, I’ll stick with what is known over what is alleged.
People should read the whole article. The paragraph right after the one posted by Adamsite presents a view of Vivek’s openness to others’ opinions that is in opposition to Mastrov’s view:
Nah, let’s just cherry pick the paragraphs that fit a certain narrative. Your comment of reality in writing should be flagged.
Good lord, we do know the Chamber of Commerce’s mission to help businesses in Sacramento, right? Keeping Vivek happy is good for area businesses. This view of Vivek is certainly not what years of reporting has said.
You might want to note the use of the word “Others” (as in more than one “Other”) at the beginning of that paragraph. Ms Blackwood’s quote seems to have been chosen as representative of that viewpoint as was Mastrov’s of his.
There have been years of reporting stating that Vivek meddles in basketball decisions when he shouldn’t. There is one paragraph, with one quote, that says nothing about basketball. I’ll trust the basketball reporting to Amick, Woj, Shams, etc..
The particular quotes under scrutiny here have to do with Vivek’s openness to other opinions, not directly with his meddling in basketball decisions. I’ll leave it at that.
A good way to make sure we keep sucking.
Sounds glib and dismissive, as if he’s downplaying a serious issue. How do we keep getting stuck with asshole owners?
If it’s your fault, then how about doing something to fix it? Change your ways, Vivek.
That one guy is just one voice in the room and he’s not listening to others that have good opinions,” says Mastrov, who criticized Ranadivé’s tendency to want to be involved in every decision.
Vivek is an ego moron. He’s so fucking self absorbed he’s crushed this team and can’t even see that his involvement is the reason this organization has stunk.
Look around Vivek. You are the worst.
There’s a following paragraph that contradicts this opinion 100%. Why latch on to this one and not the other?
just saying.
There’s years of reporting that supports what Mastrov said.
This was always a real estate/business deal for Vivek, disguised as a basketball team purchase. If the real estate deals go south, then there will be major problems. If the team continues to suck….”meh” for Vivek….
Then it’s easy to let the basketball people do their thing if it’s just a real estate deal. Why get involved in basketball matters if all you’re interested in is the bottom line?
Ego and boredom
Flimsy logic from where I sit but okay.
This I fear might be the bottom line for him which is worrisome. However he does talk about the kings being a form of a social network that when it grows can become more and more profitable. So, by that statement I could easily see how a winning team is exponentially better for Vivek. More wins means more success which means more followers which means more money in many many forms.
Agreed on all that, BUT, in order to achieve success, Vivek MUST stay out of basketball decisions. Personally, I don’t think his ego can handle that.
This isn’t true. Ownership is always involved. He needs to learn how to be an effective owner, not stay completely out of things.
Good ownership lets basketball people make basketball decisions. According to someone in the room (Mastrov), he doesn’t do that.
Mastrov isn’t a neutral source, he always wanted to be managing partner. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I take anything he says in that context with a heaping pile of salt.
Or he’s holding himself accountable but hey, this sentence can be spun in either direction to how our preconceived opinions have been formed.
hate to sound like I’m defending the guy because I’m not intentionally trying to. I’m just becoming more and more tired of false or stretched reasons to hate on Vivek. There’s plenty of real reasons for me to be upset about the time of his ownership and the success and epic failures of this team I love. I don’t need to manufacture any
Dear Lord….
Vivek 3.0
Civilization 3.0
…..
How about:
Playoff Drought 16.0
There are few things I hate more than watching Vivek try to brand himself, whether its the shaka in every pic, the stupid phrases like Basketball 2.0, Civilization 3.0, Jazz Band, etc.. Its so shameless and lame.
Ok, now that’s funny.
Interesting that coach brought up that he thought other calls weren’t going our way during the game. Also said the refs might have been biased because “they’re the Heat, we’re the Kings, and we’re expected to lose”. Yep, definitely a fine coming up for him, but gotta love him sticking up for his team.
And because of that the team will stick up for him. A culture is brewing.
We’ll see. The difference here between sticking up for his team and making excuses for his team depends on what he says to the players about it in the locker room and on the practice court. If we start hearing players complaining about biased refs after loses, then we know the culture brewing was the wrong one.
We will see.
It isn’t complaining if the facts are on your side. Speaking up about these things is an excellent way of distinguishing oneself from a doormat.
No, overcoming these things is an excellent way of distinguishing oneself from a doormat.
And I’m curious about what you’re “speaking up” about. Human error isn’t going to be solved by speaking up. People know about human error. They do what they can to mitigate it without complete ruining the flow of the game. They could do better. That’s why they’re always making adjustments.
That is assuming you don’t believe there some intentional bias against the Kings. In which case, well, that’s another conversation all together. Suffice to say I don’t see much motive for that.
I’m not following any of this. A team or players have no ability to overcome a blown call. It’s made, you have no recourse, eat your plate of poop. Is there some preemptive action that the team can take to overcome things like this? What would that look like? And after the fact, with the play over, how should they approach overcoming the blown call?
(Suggesting that the Kings should be up twenty points at all times so that a single call won’t matter will not be accepted as a way to overcome blown calls.)
As to human error not being solvable by speaking up, I’ve got to say that the Coach’s Challenge addresses that incredibly directly. It could not be more on point.
Sports didn’t have replay challenges for the majority of their existence, and now they do. Do you think that came about through timid acquiescence by players, coaches, and teams? Squeaky wheels and all that.
Make consistently egregious errors at your job, and your employer can either put systems in place to mitigate them, fire you, or just accept the consequences and get on with their day.
The third option is no option at all.
Absolutely loved this. I like Mike Brown even more now.
it must be incredibly frustrating to him. Way more than us. He’s a new coach trying to change a culture and make the first winning team in 16 years and he’s watching wins be assisted for his competition on a nightly basis.
when was the last time (try not to be biased) when you remember the kings getting the benefit of a foul call or non foul call that helped the team win in the final moments? Or how about a game where the foul differential was heavily weighted in the kings favor? Feels like every other game the free throw attempts for the other team are double what the Kings were given/awarded.
to answer my own question… I remember a Buddy Hield last second shot a few years back that won the game and was contested by the opposing team as a travel. That said, that play in particular I watched over and over again and I remember taking the stance that while it easily could have gone either way was not actually traveling. There was a clear argument in Buddy’s/the Kings favor that was valid or just as valid as claiming it was traveling. He moved, put the ball down and moved again and then shot the shot. That play was at worst a 50/50 call. Tyler Hero’s play is so obvious as a travel it makes kings fans feel cheated once again.
Exactly this:
Without any way to remedy the wrong, what’s the point? I know it’s an extreme example, but imagine losing a playoff game that way, or heaven forbid, a Finals game, then just getting an “our bad” as Akis mentioned. Stupid. As with many things concerning NBA officiating.
The trouble the Kings are trying to make the playoffs or play-in. Each and every game counts. Hate to lose bt one game.
Guess I’ll be the one to disagree on the League releasing these reports.
For one report, one game – yeah sure – Tough spit, chew harder.
But how about the next game? Or the next time? Maybe there is a trend here that is appropriately disconcerting.
I also agree with what Coach Brown said – The refs have a hard job. And that’s because they do – where else do you get folks to dissect your every more and decision and throw it back in your face when it’s not considered correct? Not many. There is no healthy way to expect the officiating to be “perfect”. But if we stay in the realm of reasonable – we try and constructively critique, not so much criticize – in the hopes of getting better. In the hopes that if the odds are stacked either for or against a team or an individual that this is addressed.
And 1:
Super game. Great gamesmanship by Tyler Herro, this season’s JJ Reddick (maybe better), wish he played for the Kings.With Kevin Heurter (not in place of). They are both guys that are known (by me, at least) as Gamers. Much respect. The Miami Heat are a very good team, and I am glad the Fox-less Kings fought them to the end.
What bothers me (and I’m guessing a lot of other fans too) are the blatantly obvious calls that no human should miss while standing right there as it happened. That was last night’s (missed) call.
The close or 50/50 ones don’t bother me as much, but some, like last night, are so obvious that there’s literally no legit reason for not blowing the whistle.
I don’t disagree with your point, but what is obvious from the comfort of the couch with bazillion slo mo camera views is not so obvious when you have been running around for 47 minutes and have a split second at real game speed to decide.
These refs get paid a pittance compared to NBA players, some of who can’t even make 70% from the FT line or 48% from the field, but the refs have to be 90% right?
There’s an outrage when fans throw horrible insults at players (rightfully so), but refs are fair game?
When a player blatantly travels three feet from your eyeballs with nothing blocking your view and as you’re just standing there and not running -yes, refs should get that particular kind of call correct 90% of the time. Just seems to happen to the Kings way too often.
I’m speaking of plays where the foul/violation is obvious in real time, like Herro’s shot. Slo mo and umpteen camera angles were not required to see that he travelled.
I don’t mind fans getting on refs (or players) during a game as that’s part of it, but it shouldn’t be incessant (like the never ending player complaining during games) or include personal insults.
Heh, if only the referees had access to the same angles and replays as fans.
Brown had to burn his challenge on an obviously-wrong call in the second quarter, and even that is moot because non-calls aren’t reviewable.
The goal should be to get things right, and do so in a reasonably short period of time. Reviewing the Herro travel would have taken about ten seconds to determine what transpired.
As consistently awful as NBA referees have been, getting the calls right shouldn’t be left solely to them, particularly when they lay an egg on one that, without question, determined the outcome of the game.
Adam Silver’s NBA has zero accountability. Just acknowledging the problem doesn’t fix the problem. Restitution needs to be made to compensate the Kings for the loss. Let me guess – Brown couldn’t challenge the call because it was during the last 3 minutes of the game. The technology is there to correct the mistakes but the league won’t use it. The league has turned into even more of an officiating joke under Silver’s tenure.
Yeah, give us SOMETHING.
How about some ping pong balls, eh Silver?
A French 7-4” Ping pong ball please.
Well, he handed us Luka Doncic…
We’ve jumped in the draft lottery 3 of the past 5 times the Kings had a pick. One of them putting them in position to draft a generational talent.
If anything, the league has been throwing the Kings plenty of bones. We’re just shitty at catching them and they’ve been bouncing off our skulls.
Don’t delude yourself; Adam Silver is running a business and he’s doing just fine.
This is part of selling the product. What brings in more money; an end of the game winning 3 pointer or a traveling call? A huge poster while obliterating a defender or a blatant push off with the left hand? Helping the superstars with calls or fouling them out? Keeping the game pure or tweaking rules every season to enhance the product (defending without fouling becomes more and more difficult)? The flow of the game or the TV-time outs?
What I liked about this summer’s Euro Championship is how there’s absolutely zero consideration to whether a player is star or not. Physical defense is allowed. Limited time-outs. Not perfect officiating, but a game which focuses on the sport and the competitive element, not on selling the product.
This is a hilarious comment. Call an honest game and everything will be just fine. If a player travels right in front of your face, in move you’d have to be stupid or ignorant to miss, please make the call. Maybe the Kings would have ended the game with a three if the refs made the damn call.
I respectfully disagree. Its not about what brings in more money, its about playing by the same rules as everyone else, and creating a format whereby blown calls can be reviewable in any circumstance. The rules oughtn’t be manipulated by who the teams are or their market size or their talent level. So yeah – kind of like your impression of how the Euro Championship was officiated – so should any sports league strive for fairness for all parties involved. The commissioner is ultimately responsible for an unwillingness to set things straight. Being transparent about making a mistake without taking corrective action to resolve the consequences of the mistake is irresponsible and gutless.
I have nothing to say that won’t get me a ban. So I’ll just say I am mad as hell.
I get that refereeing is hard and that there are going to be missed calls. But what’s really frustrating to me is that while the league is admitting there’s an issue and supposedly mitigating it with the challenge rule, that rule is really limited. Why does it only allow for challenges of a small subset of calls? (Traveling, double dribbles, and offensive/defensive 3 seconds for example are not reviewable.) And what’s the rationale for charging a timeout even if the call was successful? How does it make sense for a team to be penalized for getting a missed call corrected?
And I’m on the side of getting rid of the 2 minute reports. I don’t see what the point is.
Teams do not lose a timeout if their challenge is successful :
Section V—Impact on Timeouts
a. If the call subject to review pursuant to a Challenge is not overturned, the Challenge is deemed unsuccessful and the challenging team loses its timeout.
Oh, thank you. I feel a little bit better about the rule now. 🙂
NBA report confirms Kings lost.
I’d feel much better if the NBA got some refs who knew what they were doing.
Sorry. These are the absolutely best refs in there are. They go through the most rigorous ongoing training, have to work their way up through the same levels as the players (sometime more since the players don’t have to play in college or the G-League) and prove themselves through evaluations. They constantly have their games picked apart, reviewed and assessed by the league. There literally aren’t any refs out there that know better what they’re doing than NBA refs.
The fact is that reffing is simply incredibly difficult and there are going to be mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are going to go your way. Sometimes they aren’t. As long as there are rules based on judgement there are going to be human refs. And as long as there are human refs there are going to be mistakes. Honestly, this one wasn’t even that egregious. If it happened in the 3rd quarter nobody would be batting an eye. There are more obvious travels, carries, etc. that provide more player advantage that go uncalled every game. And I for one am happy about that. If they called every possible infraction we’d have stoppages every possession and zero flow or excitement.
Did Herro travel? Absolutely. Would any ref at any level have called that travel in that situation? Maybe a couple well-meaning, pedantic high school refs that everybody would HATE except the winning team. Until he reffed that team’s next game.
It sucks that the Kings missed out on a chance to win this game in part because of that call, but if the players and coaching staff spent more than a couple minutes thinking/talking/whining about it, that’s a problem.
This guy definitely refs rec league or something.
No, but really I should have known better than to pipe up during a fan venting session.
Carry on. I’ll see y’all on the other side.
It’s all good. I actually agree with a lot of what you say. Some of us fans have little choice but to ooze misery and snark until…I dunno a winning season?
There was a pretty spectacular season in 2001-2002 that had a weird ending. It wasn’t that Kobe or Shaq had unstoppable efforts in Game 6, all I can remember is Mike Bibby committing a reach foul by getting socked in the nose by Kobe Bryant.
Maybe a coach’s challenge would have made a difference, but it’s not difficult to imagine that it wouldn’t have.
They aren’t. They are planning the next game on Saturday.
Hey refs is this how a whistle works?
I think the biggest problem I have with the non call of Herro’s travel is that you have to save your challenge, and a timeout, for that moment.
I think the NBA needs to switch over to a rule similar to MLB (although their replay system is awful) where there’s a cutoff to when your challenge expires (7th inning in MLB) and after that it’s at the umpires discretion from the 8th inning on.
That’s what frustrates me most. I’m not a fan of the challenge system the NBA has. Is there a simple fix? No, but that’s why the league has people reviewing this stuff.
Did this call by itself bost the Kings the game? I don’t think so. Timely offensive rebounds by the Heat, poor offensive execution down the stretch (not having Fox hurt there) is what really cost the Kings. I just think it’s dumb to not have a mechanism to fix a bad call at a point that literally cost the Kings (or any NBA team really) the game. It’s not guaranteed to change that much, after all Herro’s shot simply broke a tie. It ended what was issue a fun, quality game on a sour note and that’s unfortunate. Unavoidable? Sure.
All that said, the NBA won’t change the system as is. It is, after all, a feature that coaches can only challenge one call, not a bug.
To your point, the league should look into potential game winning shots in the last few seconds. I can’t fathom the current-day NFL allowing a one-foot-in-bounds game winning catch to stand, or for MLB to let an obvious blown game-ending homerun call to stand.
And in this regard, just about every ref would tell you that they would prefer that the right call be ultimately made. Don Denkinger would not be living in St. Louis infamy if replay existed in 1985, and Jim Joyce wishes that replay had been their to undo his blowing of Andres Gallaraga’s perfect game. (Of course, there are exceptions…if we used replay on all of Angel Hernandez’ calls, we’d never get through the game.)
As I noted earlier, the systemic NBA issue is that they let soooooo much traveling go to begin with, I’m not sure how you let it go all game and then tighten it up at the very end. But your point is a solid one. As the fans lend more credence to the game enders, so should the league.
They already tie challenges to timeouts, so it would make sense to be be able to keep challenging calls as long as you have timeouts. This idea of having a single challenge per game is maddening. If a team abuses the prividge, they just keep losing their timeouts until they have none left. The game is thus no lengthier than would otherwise have been. If a team successfully challenges repeatedly, leading to lenghtier games– then whose fault is that? It would therefore be the best interest of the league to call games more accurately. In any case, I don’t think there is demand from anyone (Jeff van Gundy aside) for speedier games at the expense of accuracy. Replays have become part of the game. Watching a play from every angle and waiting in anticipation for an official ruling is not boring. It’s way more fun than, say, watching free throws. They can get rid of those instead if they want a faster game.
In fairness, NBA games are MUCH better officiated now than the pre-Donahey scandal days. Which is why I totally disagree with Akis about the two minute report. Transparency and admission of fallability is always better, even when nothing can be done about it retroactively. Especially if the alternative is going back to the days when refs felt they were beyond reproach and operated with whim and impunity.
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