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Let’s cut Monte some slack

(just a little)
By | 389 Comments | Jul 3, 2024

Dec 13, 2022; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA; Sacramento Kings owner Vivek Ranadive (L) and general manager Monte McNair (R) talk during warm ups before a game against the Philadelphia 76ers at Wells Fargo Center. Mandatory Credit: Bill Streicher-USA TODAY Sports

Patience is not a particular strong suit for this fanbase, and for good reason.

For 16 long years we watched and waited as the Sacramento Kings franchise toiled in the abyss, failing to grasp multiple lifelines (see our draft history from 2009-2018 if you dare) and at times facing actual extinction.  Recently though, the team has taken a turn for the better under the stewardship of General Manager Monte McNair and company.  The Kings added Domantas Sabonis in a blockbuster trade that sent out Tyrese Haliburton and Buddy Hield, traded for Kevin Huerter, signed Malik Monk and drafted Keegan Murray.  Sacramento took the defending champions to seven games in their first ever playoff series and the fanbase was on cloud nine.

To say this last season didn’t nearly match the highs of the season before is an understatement. After a flurry of activity the year before, the Kings largely stood pat last offseason, re-signing Harrison Barnes and adding Sasha Vezenkov and JaVale McGee.  Sacramento’s first round draft pick was traded to Dallas to salary dump Richaun Holmes. Meanwhile, the Western Conference as a whole seemed to get a lot better, and that continued throughout the season.  While the Kings were still a good team, the competition was far stiffer and Sacramento was no longer a surprise.  The Kings had multiple inexplicable losses against bad teams, and when the trade deadline came, the Kings stayed quiet, not finding a deal that made sense.  To make matters worse, other teams in the West did make moves that made them significantly better: one of them, the Dallas Mavericks, ended up vaulting the Kings in the standings after trading for PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford, and even ended up all the way in the NBA Finals.  But worst of all, the Kings failed to make the playoffs, a sour note on an otherwise decent season record wise.

Success isn’t linear, but for the Kings to be once again left on the outside looking in was a tough pill to swallow.  This team showed last season that there are serious holes, especially in terms of length across the board.  That was one of the biggest reasons the Kings struggled so much against the team that eventually ended their season, the New Orleans Pelicans; New Orleans was able to matchup well with the Kings across the board, while the Kings didn’t really have an answer for the physicality & length the Pelicans brought to the table.  So this was always going to be a big offseason for Monte McNair to address some of those issues and take a swing after staying relatively quiet since the flurry of activity in 2022.

McNair’s first move of the offseason was an absolute home-run; getting a commitment from Malik Monk to a 4 year, $78 million deal before the draft and free agency was huge.  Monk has been one of Sacramento’s best players over the last two seasons, and the Kings were unlikely to find a replacement for him on the free agent market.  The Kings likely would have been outbid in the open market since they were capped on what they could offer, but Monk opted to stay in Sacramento where he has thrived.  Many (myself included) thought it was a foregone conclusion that Monk would be off to secure a rightfully earned payday, but in the end he chose to stay and that’s a testament to the culture Monte McNair, Mike Brown and the organization have built over the last couple of years.

With Monk’s re-signing out of the way, the Kings could now look forward to optimizing their roster.  Missing the playoffs came with one small perk in that the Kings ended up keeping their draft pick, and it was heavily reported that Sacramento was shopping that pick in search of another rotation piece.  Word broke shortly before the draft that the Kings had been in the running for guard Alex Caruso with that pick, but the Chicago Bulls instead opted to trade Caruso to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Josh Giddey.  On its face, that’s a better trade for the Bulls than a late lottery pick in what was widely considered one of the worst drafts in recent memory, but it still stung to once again hear the Kings narrowly miss out on a big trade.

Then the draft came and the Kings opted to keep the pick.  Were they taking a wing or frontcourt player to fix their size issue? Nope, they took a 6’2 guard on a roster whose greatest depth is at guard.  Now, that young guard in question, Devin Carter, has a ridiculous 6’9 wingspan and incredible athleticism, but it was still a weird fit despite many draft pundits considering Carter the best prospect available when the Kings drafted.  That fit became a bit clearer the next day when the Kings salary dumped Davion Mitchell and Sasha Vezenkov to the Raptors along with two second round picks but again, that wasn’t a move that made the roster itself any better.

Now, a week after the draft and several days into free agency, the Kings have still stood fast.  They’ve been linked to many names: Kyle Kuzma, Zach LaVine, Brandon Ingram, Lauri Markkanen, Paul George, and DeMar DeRozan among others, but the Kings haven’t done anything aside from bringing back Alex Len.  Wings like Derrick Jones Jr. and Naji Marshall have gone to other Western contenders, and the free agent market is drying up quickly as many in Kings fandom wonder: What exactly is Monte McNair doing?

I definitely get the frustrations in not seeing the team make a big move, but I also think Monte McNair has an incredibly hard job trying to find a concrete upgrade for this team.  Sacramento’s list of assets is not large after years of mismanagement.  Perhaps the team’s biggest asset, Keegan Murray, doesn’t seem to be on the table and likely shouldn’t be unless in play for a legitimate star.  Their next best asset (aside from Domantas Sabonis and De’Aaron Fox) is Keon Ellis, who despite breaking out last season only has about 20 solid games on his resumé.  Because of Sacramento’s owed pick to Atlanta and the Stepien rule that prohibits teams from trading picks in back to back years, the Kings have to do some shenanigans to free up draft capital.  The first unencumbered pick the Kings could offer is their 2027 first rounder.

The move that Monte makes now is likely to be one of the last big moves this team can make for a while unless they trade a core member simply because it will likely use up most of our immediate assets.  That’s a big deal, and not something to rush, so I understand why Monte wants to keep some bullets in the chamber until absolutely necessary.  The Kings are also only really shopping Kevin Huerter and Harrison Barnes, who are fine players, but not the kind that makes teams swoon trying to get and are more about salary matching than anything else.  Sacramento also has to factor in future extensions for De’Aaron Fox & Keegan Murray (and maybe any player they trade for that will be in need of one like Brandon Ingram) with new salary cap rules that really restrict what a team can do at a certain payroll level. There’s a lot to weigh here and taking the wrong deal could hamstring the Kings for years.

So yeah, it sucks seeing reports of all these moves being made and not seeing Sacramento’s name come up, but I would at least urge just a little bit more patience before completely freaking out.  We’re not even one week into free agency and there are already those calling for McNair’s head for not making a move.  That’s a bit harsh in my opinion with plenty of options still available to us. Now if days become weeks and months and we still haven’t seen any moves, then I’ll be right there with you busting out my trusty old pitchfork and torch outside Golden 1.  But this front office has done enough to earn some grace.  Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to check Adrian Wojnarowski’s twitter feed to see if I reverse jinxed the Kings to make a move while I wrote 1300 words about them not making one.

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Ieyatsu
July 3, 2024 7:16 am

Are we sure that he’s still alive? I mean, maybe we’re here talking shit about him and the guy is just…

TheGrantNapear
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July 3, 2024 7:21 am
Reply to  Ieyatsu

Maybe Anjali is actually running things this offseason and the inexperience has manifested with no moves being made.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 7:42 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Moonlighting as the Kings GM during her Summer break from Non-Profit Management school.

DNP-CD
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July 3, 2024 11:03 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Non-Profit Management school. Isn’t that the name of the school of business at Nepotism University?

Carl
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July 3, 2024 1:02 pm
Reply to  DNP-CD

Bronny’s alma mater?

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 1:03 pm
Reply to  Carl

LeDean

TheGrantNapear
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July 3, 2024 7:22 am

The article should be titled “Run it Back”

1951
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July 3, 2024 12:05 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Hi all. 1st time in a while, long time caller here.

Man, that Sam Amick interview this morning on the CD/JRoss show certainly had a “well, they are likely to just run it back” feel to it! Yikes.

He also reported more fuel to the smoke about Fox’s extension being more than just the opportunity to go from 30% of the cap to 35%. He seems to want to keep his options open, for which I can’t really blame the guy for wanting to do.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 12:17 pm
Reply to  1951

I guess I can’t see any qualitative difference between Fox’s opportunity to increase his potential earnings by waiting a year, and wanting to keep his options open.

Amick is a good reporter, but he’s as susceptible to pushing clickbait as anyone.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 12:17 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

And welcome back!

1951
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July 3, 2024 12:27 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Thanks!

I do think there is a substantive difference between wanting to bet on yourself to earn a bigger contract and hedging your bet that the org is going to be able to improve the team much!

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 3:45 pm
Reply to  1951

But did Fox ever say that his reason for waiting had anything to do with concern about the team’s direction? Or is that Amick making an inferrence based on…anything?

MichaelMack
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July 3, 2024 8:46 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

If I were on Fox’s management team, and saw a bunch of conversation about how he wasn’t signing an extension because he was trying to get more money, I would float a few “he wants to see where the team is headed” comments to reporters.

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 9:14 am
Reply to  MichaelMack

And if a frog had wings…

TheGrantNapear
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July 3, 2024 7:25 am

“Bronny has earned this through hard work”
JJ Redick referring to Bronny being gifted a roster spot.

This whole thing is a stain on the NBA and reeks of entitlement and utter BS. Anyone around LBJ has to take the policitians approach and spew the BS and lies that all fans can see right through, that includes those who cover the NBA who don’t have the stones to say anything about this, lest they lose their connections with NBA players. We may not have signed any players, but thank goodness we don’t have to deal with this sideshow.

China_Jimmer
July 3, 2024 7:35 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Right. The annoying thing about it is that everything happening in the situation is the complete opposite of what Bronny is saying.

He said he wants to build his own career and carve out his own path. Refuse’s workouts with nearly every team. He said he never thought of playing with his dad. One, that’s a complete lie, and two, Rich Paul called teams telling them they better not draft him.

At the same time, if I was one of the greatest players of all time and I had the opportunity to get my son in the NBA I absolutely would. So I get that, but they can stop making up lies about him earning it (which to an extent maybe he has), and being in the NBA if he had a different name.

TheGrantNapear
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July 3, 2024 8:25 am
Reply to  China_Jimmer

At the same time, if I was one of the greatest players of all time and I had the opportunity to get my son in the NBA I absolutely would. So I get that, but they can stop making up lies about him earning it (which to an extent maybe he has), and being in the NBA if he had a different name.

Exactly. People aren’t stupid, just be real and honest about it that it’s nepotism, instead of playing the role of a politician and feeding people garbage and lies.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 7:45 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Meanwhile, Giannis has a brother on his team that has no business stepping on any professional court. He is a brother, not a son, but the only reason he is in the league is because of Giannis. This pretty much never gets discussed, probably because Giannis chooses to stay out of the spotlight and doesn’t have the monster ego that LeBaby has.

Greg
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July 3, 2024 8:33 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I disagree with the premise of him not being qualified to step on a professional court. Thanasis came up through the G League, played internationally, and his first NBA minutes were for the Knicks. He’s hung around as an end-of-bench guy in the NBA longer than he should have due to Milwaukee keeping Giannis happy, but Thanasis wasn’t immediately gifted an NBA contract the way Bronny has been.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 9:15 am
Reply to  Greg

True, he did take his time to get there, and has stuck because of his brother.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 8:46 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Man, this is really stuck under your craw. You have mentioned it numerous other threads, and now in this one, which really has nothing to do with the article topic.

Isaiah Wong. Gui Santos. Aaron Wiggins. Jay Scrubb. Kyle Guy. Arnoldas Kuboka. Nigel Williams-Goss. Marcus Paige. Cady Lalaane. Semaj Christon. Those are the last 10 players drafted at #55. That’s right. The last decade of #55 picks includes a Scrubb and a Guy.

If I could have LeBron on this roster and the only price to pay was making room for Bronny on the roster, I would do it until my head caved in. Because whatever level player he is, he is not too far removed from being the equivalent of the players that the Kings have had at the end of their bench (or in Stockton on 2-ways) over the past decade.

This is a knife that cuts both ways, and for whatever reason it was not an issue when Milwaukee signed Giannis’ brother, or when Cleveland drafted Mobley’s brother. Bronny may have been gifted the coveted #55 pick, and he gets all of the undo publicity that has gone with it, but he also gets all of the undo publicity that goes with it. He does not get to develop outside of the white hot spotlight, while Anton Watson (drafted just before him) and Kevin McCullar, Jr. (drafted right after him) get to attempt to develop in anonymity.

And 1 – I have noted this in responding to this matter before, but once the draft gets to around 50, most players and their agents prefer not to be drafted. To be clear, there is no benefit to being drafted in the latter part of the 2nd round. There is zero contract guarantee, and you are restricted to making (and negotiating with) one team. Players and agents would prefer to go undrafted at that point, as the ability to view various camp invites and then selecting a team based on their game and roster fit is the superior option (see Ellis, Keon).

Much ado about nothing, from every angle. I shake my head over what a big deal ESPN is making about this, and I shake my head over the level of anger that folks have over the Lakers spending a #55 pick on Bronny James.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 8:49 am
Reply to  RobHessing

The Aaron Wiggins erasure will not stand! Seriously though he’s a good player for the Thunder.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 8:57 am

Yeah, it figures that OKC would be the team to mine gold out of the 55 pick. Sam Presti is unfair.

We have no such worries – we sell ours.

Last edited 2 days ago by RobHessing
TheGrantNapear
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July 3, 2024 11:41 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Presti is a mastermind, incredible the job he’s done rebuilding that roster in such a short amount of time. Meanwhile, Monte is just chillin cool with the LTB season.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 11:47 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Presti had Paul George to use to rebuild that roster. He fleeced the Clippers to get that rebuild started. Kings had Fox, who would not get nearly the return as George, and already had a franchise that was on a 16 year playoff drought. Monte was tasked with turning it around quick and ending the drought.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 3:03 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Monte is playing 4D Chess sometimes. Nobody can be mad that our second rounders didn’t pan out if I never draft any second rounders!

rockbottom
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July 3, 2024 4:16 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

That Ginobli guy was a decent value at 58 .

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 9:00 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Kyle Guy? Now that brings back memories.

TheGrantNapear
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July 3, 2024 9:10 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Man, this is really stuck under your craw. You have mentioned it numerous other threads, and now in this one, which really has nothing to do with the article topic.

Do all comments under every article have to do with the article? Rarely if ever. This is a Kings and NBA forum, my comment has to do with the NBA, don’t get what the issue is.
As far as the Bronny situation, we can agree to disagree, I respect your opinion, but humbly disagree with it.

Mike120
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July 3, 2024 2:54 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I have zero issues with the Lakers taking Bronny. Sure, some honesty would be nice, but it’s basically a throw away pick. If it makes one of the best players in history to have his son play with him, who cares? Bronny still has to earn court time.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 12:18 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Best wishes for the status of your craw.

MichaelMack
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July 3, 2024 8:50 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I thought Rob was craw-less?

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 1:00 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

Not unless craw is another term for trousers, slacks or pants

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 9:14 am

You forgot gauchos and capris.

ajonez81
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July 3, 2024 3:55 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Can’t see nun of this box all pink

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 3, 2024 3:56 pm
Reply to  ajonez81

*use the crescent moon icon in the lower right corner to change the background from black <->white

DNP-CD
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July 3, 2024 11:05 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Isn’t that kinda like Redick being gifted a head coaching job? Asking for a friend.

Last edited 2 days ago by DNP-CD
Sacto_J
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July 3, 2024 2:40 pm
Reply to  DNP-CD

Of the 2, I have a bigger issue with Reddick being gifted a head coaching job just because he’s friends and podcast mates with LeBron.
And yet, also…HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA.
If he lasts longer than 2 years I would be shocked. Unless he’s dating Jeanie Buss.

Mike120
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July 3, 2024 2:55 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

I laugh at how they added two former head coaches with 31 combined years of experience, Nate McMillan and Scott Brooks. Who are the players going to listen to?

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 2:56 pm
Reply to  Mike120

LeBron. He is the GM, after all.

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July 3, 2024 8:43 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

And he sees, I am guesing here, a closing window on his career.

The drive for one more ring, again I am speculating, isn’t very realistic. He wants what he wants, and he is getting what he wants. He’s selling tickets, and doing his part for the Lakers business, so why not get his coach, his son, etc.

Seems reasonable to me. In the twilight of his Hall of Fame career.

DNP-CD
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July 4, 2024 6:06 am
Reply to  RobHessing

And head coach

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 7:39 am

The Kings could have made offers to Smith and Marshall, but there have been no reports that the team did. Wondering if the phone line is about to go dead on Kuzma, Ingram and Markkanen in advance of shopping in the bargain basement bin.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 7:41 am
Reply to  oshima9

Have there been reports of any other teams making offers to Smith or Marshall? Just because we don’t hear anything doesn’t mean that something wasn’t offered.

Jman1949
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July 3, 2024 7:56 am
Reply to  Hobby916

But you’re forgetting all the advanced warning we had before news of the Sabonis-Haliburton trade broke!

vestxpress
July 3, 2024 2:42 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Exactly!!! Sick and tired of people complaining so and so signed here for this. Why didn’t Monte make this deal. Or this team traded so and so and gave up nothing.
We all have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. For all we know he may have made a play for all of these guys and none of them wanted to play here. It takes two tango and just because we ain’t two stepping doesn’t mean Monte ain’t trying to fill his dance card. Just means we’re too ugly to dance with the belle of the ball. So we wait for our chance at the best of the wall flowers.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 2:55 pm
Reply to  vestxpress

I won’t disagree with any of this, but the (lack of) results are the (lack of) results.

OKC is a small market team sitting atop of the West. San Antonio is a small market team with the most exciting young player of his generation. Minnesota and Denver – neither considered to be big market teams – have climbed and or maintained their position in the standings. What makes Sacramento “uglier” than these destinations?

At some point reasons just become excuses. While OKC adds Caruso and Hartenstein, the Kings add McDaniels. Somehow OKC and others were able to rid itself of the ugly. Is there a reason why the Kings should not be able to do the same?

vestxpress
July 3, 2024 3:17 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Because the Kings have never tanked and gone on a complete rebuild. Year after year of drafting in the 7-12 range have left the cupboards bare to make meaningful trades. The one time we do luck out and get a top 2 pick, well, you know. This is how small market teams build contending teams, but we have never done it.
We as King’s fans should feel fortunate for the recent success we’ve had. Most other teams in our situation continue down this same path for, say 16 years or so. If not for Monte and the Sabonis trade we would still be the team with longest playoff drought of the 4 major sports.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 3:21 pm
Reply to  vestxpress

*whispers* maybe we should actually try that…

Because the Kings have never tanked and gone on a complete rebuild.

Seriously though, this probably ends with Fox leaving or being traded in the next few years with us never making it out of the first round. That’s the most likely outcome. Can it be avoided? Sure but it’s also not the most likely thing to happen because it will take another team being interested in our assets to do so. Internal development isn’t closing the gap.

vestxpress
July 3, 2024 3:40 pm

I’m with you, but ownership won’t allow it. They prefer being a playoff contending team rather than a championship contending team. It’s much easier and much quicker.

G-naps
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July 3, 2024 5:07 pm
Reply to  vestxpress

Its been mentioned in many places ownership wants the sweet sweet playoff revenue that they do not need to share; parking, concessions, store sales, etc. Not sure if ticket revenue needs to be shared or not.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 3:25 pm
Reply to  vestxpress

Because the Kings have never tanked and gone on a complete rebuild. 

Which was the decision of the front office the moment that they traded Haliburton instead of Fox. This was their decision, exclusively, and it was made to protect their own interests, as they knew they would not be furnished the timeline to see through a complete teardown and rebuild. They own this. They knew the parameters when they took the job.

Reasons? Excuses? no mater. Results.

vestxpress
July 3, 2024 3:37 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Ownership is the reason they have not had a rebuild. If Monte knew this when taking the job then he did what he had to do to end the playoff drought. Which I honestly believe is all ownership cared about. Not actually building a contending team. Now all they care about is being a playoff contending team year in and year out, which is what they will continue to be until they do a complete rebuild.
Not excuses, just reality. Can’t get results with a half hearted effort.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 3:42 pm
Reply to  vestxpress

That’s semantics to me. Call it “organization” if you don’t want to call it “front office.” The results don’t change.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 3:44 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Also, tanking is far from a guarantee. See Portland, Detroit, Washington, Detroit, and Detroit for recent examples.

Nemanja_Business
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July 3, 2024 5:34 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

We’ve tanked before and got Tyreke Evans to show for it. We’ve had the 1st pick in the draft before and got Pervis Ellison.

It’s all a crapshoot on when the odds land in your favor and then what do you do with that favor do you bagley it up or do you let a feud with some kids dad get in the way if a shrewed basketball decision?

Last edited 2 days ago by Nemanja_Business
rockbottom
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July 3, 2024 4:21 pm
Reply to  vestxpress

True that we don’t know what FO is doing but we do know it’s squat as of July 3rd .

Sacto_J
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July 3, 2024 2:43 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Also, just because they’re available and we have “said asset” doesn’t mean FA’s have to take it. Or other teams are just going to be like “oh, an MLE!? Just what we’ve been wanting…”
But I guess since they’re not coming here it means Monte didn’t try hard enough. Always.

vestxpress
July 3, 2024 5:24 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

Spot on! Players go to teams for all sorts of reasons, and it isn’t always money. Ask Malik Monk. Or maybe it is about money, ask Klay Thompson. California is an expensive state to do business in. We’ll never know why they didn’t want to come here.
I just feel it’s an easy cop out to say we haven’t done anything. We took care of our biggest offseason concern by resigning Monk, and we got a cheaper upgrade on our backup PG. I’ll wait for the offseason to be over before I bad mouth the GM that got us to back to back 46+ win seasons.

rockbottom
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July 3, 2024 4:20 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

We do know Smith signed for 9 million per year when Kings could have offered 12 . Indicates no move by Monte .

RikSmits
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July 3, 2024 9:58 am
Reply to  oshima9

OFFERS? WE’RE TALKING ABOUT OFFERS?

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Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 7:56 am

I agree. The Kings have some issues moving forward with what ownership is willing to pay to make the team better. It seems Monte has to do some Moneyball shenanigans to fill out a roster to stay within the parameters of his allocated finances.

Patience is a virtue, and the season begins in October, so there is time for the roster to round out. It is clear that there are holes that need to be addressed, and I hope the front office can fill those with good players (not you Miles Bridges. Take your crap somewhere else).

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 8:22 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Isn’t Saric available? Not really a solution to the team’s problems, but we could do worse,

rockbottom
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July 3, 2024 4:26 pm
Reply to  oshima9

He is always available but sadly Kings have done worse . Lyles. Saric . Close !

Corneroffense
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July 3, 2024 8:01 am

The last big move: Huerter for Beef Stew. (GPS voice): ‘You have arrived at your destination’.

Younger and cheaper than Collins
Salaries match
Signed for 3 years
Rumors say they’re shopping him to give Duren more minutes
They just overpaid for Tobias Harris
They’re in the bottom 3 in 3 pointers

Right now with a rookie prospect like Carter on board, I’d throw in a first rounder. OK, this is the last post for the Beef Stew Marching and Chowder Society (old people and Vin Scully fans know what that means).

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 8:10 am
Reply to  Corneroffense

I don’t think a 1st rounder would be needed to get Beef Stew. Huerter addresses a major need for them, and addresses a need for the Kings, salaries are basically the same. It seems like the type of move that benefits both teams and players, which means it will not happen because it might make too much sense.

HongKongKingsFan
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July 3, 2024 8:17 am
Reply to  Corneroffense

I really like the idea of adding Isaiah Stewart….

Wish List (not giving up our major pieces):
1) Trade for Ingram
2) Trade for Kuzma
3) Trade for Stewart
4) Give an offer sheet to Simone Fontecchio

I know we need to be patient…

But comparing with last year, where the Kings made quick decision, and this year, they just act completely different….really made us fans nervous, as some big names were already gone.

Jack
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July 3, 2024 8:56 am
Reply to  Corneroffense

That’s ok with me, I really like Stewart as a bachup center and at times playing next to Sabonis I might throw in a first rounder with Huerter but IMO Huerter is part of a package Monty wants to trade for a different player. Maybe Ingram. Who knows.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 3, 2024 8:09 am

The Patience Preacher has spoken!

The Reality
comment image&ct=g

The Fear:
comment image&ct=g

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 1:51 pm

The vest checks out.

AmateurNerd
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July 3, 2024 8:13 am

I’ll give MM this: it’s clear he’s hunting for big game. If he were going after squirrels and rabbits, there would be some meat on the plate by now.

Last edited 2 days ago by AmateurNerd
RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 8:20 am
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Scott Moak: “Ladies and gentlemen, your 2024 Sacramento Squirrels!”

Jman1949
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July 3, 2024 9:05 am
Reply to  RobHessing

But running it back does seem a bit squirrelly!

comment image&ct=g

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 9:55 am
Reply to  Jman1949

Bore us and bad enough would be apt descriptions of this team’s overall Sacramento history.
comment image

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 3, 2024 2:23 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat comment image
Pictured: NOT Tom Boerwinkle (4th pick in the 1968 draft) though getting a 7 footer would be no Bull!

jlandweh
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July 3, 2024 8:29 am

For me (and this is just me)…I am cautiously optimistic or cautiously patient. However; if this team does “Run it Back” and does not improve…MM will be on the hotseat, which is fair.

He’s made some good moves, we saw fantastic improvement – but now it is time to show a plan/roadmap for success. This team doesn’t have much, if any, remnants from Vlade. This is McNair’s team. It can be a trade for stars or signing role players, but improvement needs to be shown.

I hope he makes a move and I want him to. Whatever that move is, I will cheer for that player(s).

Running it Back is not a recipe for success with this many roster flaws.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 9:07 am
Reply to  jlandweh

Do you happen to have any copies of the plan/roadmap that McNair shared before trading for Sabonis, signing Malik Monk, or drafting Keegan Murray? Perhaps we can pore over them in order to take an educated guess at what’s happening now.

I hope he makes a move and I want him to. Whatever that move is, I will cheer for that player(s).

Miles Bridges? A bunch of firsts to acquire a one-dimensional player like Markannen?

Kudos on your boldness, I certainly wouldn’t want to commit to being satisfied by any move, simply because a move was made.

jlandweh
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July 3, 2024 1:36 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Of course he will not state his plan/roadmap for success…but improvement (or in this case, regression) is fairly easy to see.

In terms of my statement of cheering for the player, I am merely stating that as a fan of the Kings – I would cheer for that player. I am not saying I would cheer for any move.

In your Markkanen example…do I think it is the best move for the Kings, no. However; I would appreciate the attempt at improving the roster and would cheer for Markkanen the player. It can be both.

If we are talking about commit to anything, it will be this…if the Sacramento Kings “run it back” this offseason/trade deadline, Monte McNair will be fired at the end of the 2024-2025 season.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 9:47 am
Reply to  jlandweh

Just an FYI. He ran it back last summer and last trade deadline to be objective (he may not have been successful with a good trade, but he also didn’t get any small pieces when we needed that). Let’s hope that it’s not a third time.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 10:48 am
Reply to  DCKing

Third?

Greg
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July 3, 2024 8:35 am

Make a bad trade, fans call for your head. Make no trade, fans call for your head. If I were Monte McNair, I would simply make a very good trade and then everyone will be happy.

TheGrantNapear
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July 3, 2024 8:39 am
Reply to  Greg

I’m guessing the hold up in trades has been MM not wanting to part with KM. I don’t blame MM for that. I want to see year 3 KM before considering trading him. Players tend to make leaps in year 3, the King’s FO should not fade that.

Jack
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July 3, 2024 9:00 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

That might be part of the problem. IMO with the Ingram trade it might be that contract extension, Monty really likes Ingram but not for one year.

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 8:54 am
Reply to  Greg

As my law school professor said many years ago, “that’s why they pay you the big bucks.”

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 10:52 am
Reply to  oshima9

What would a college professor know about the big bucks?

Mike120
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July 3, 2024 3:01 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Now if you’re talking top college football coaches, that’s where the big bucks are.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 10:46 am
Reply to  Greg

comment image

murraytant
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July 3, 2024 8:41 am

I am not at all sure about what is going on but I have suspicions.

Getting free agents has never been the Kings forte. FA’s can make marginal improvements but not enough to make a huge difference. Mone just sat that out(and he wanted to keep the full MLE as a tool in his quest for a trade. Hence, Marshall, Jones, Smith, Jonas, Melton, Anderson, Harris, Issacs, all signed elsewhere. Would any of them made a huge difference?
Monte is pursuing the trade front. On draft day, he had a trade(s)option for the #13 pick but they were so in love with Carter that they pulled out. They thought Carter was going higher.
This guy better be as good as advertised.
The real quest here is a big name- Lauri, BI or Kuzma in that order. I doubt that there is interest in Collins x2 or even Stewart. Those guys will not change the trajectory.
DeRozen or LaVine are not good fits.
Monte is holding his full MLE + payers and picks to get one of those 3. It is a waiting game.
Ainge is impossible. NOP want a center from a third team and Kuzma is priced too high.
Monte decided that getting marginally better with FA’s would just not do it.
The Sasha and Davion dump occurred because of the desire to recapture the full MLE.
While all this makes sense, it is frustrating and as a Kings apologist I just accept this as “the best thing”.

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 8:52 am
Reply to  murraytant

Markkanen was a FA several years ago and the Kings passed. Look at how he developed. Marshall and Jones could also improve, even if not like Markkanen, and partially address critical needs at a relatively low cost. This is where the Kings have to start hunting instead of, or at least in addition, to trying to thread the needle with Utah and New Orleans.

HongKongKingsFan
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July 3, 2024 8:54 am
Reply to  murraytant

The real quest here is a big name- Lauri, BI or Kuzma in that order.

Regarding BI or Kuzma, it seems both Pels and Wizards are not in rush to trade away their players, and of course they will do that if the Kings offer what they wants….

But Monte is not stupid at all…so it depends on negotiation again….

So, if those deal cannot be done, which type of players would Monte be looking for, by using the ful MLE ?

Sacto_J
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July 3, 2024 2:54 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Only going to discourse one statement:
DeRozan would be just as good a fit as anyone. The Kings struggled to find ways to score when their 3 pt shot failed them last year. DeRozan is a midrange assassin and one more person defenses would have to key in on when the Kings are failing to find good spacing in said scenarios. I believe its the one biggest reason we had such a point discrepancy in defeats last year; we had no answer for opponents who took away our long ball and scoring became “give it to De’Aaron”. This offense needs more than 2 dimensions, and DeRozan would absolutely provide that.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 3:54 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

I’m a fan of DeRozan’s but barring at least one of the three coming into the season with a much better three-point shot, can you play Fox, Sabonis and DeRozan at the same time?

For what it’s worth, I think you can, good players figure things out, but that’s a lot of paint operators. Bottom line is likely that DR is probably pricing himself out of Sacramento.

outrider
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July 3, 2024 8:43 am

For me, it’s tough because we don’t know who Monte has talked to and what the parameters of any potential deal were. We can make assumptions, like if he was talking to Ainge, we know damn well that Ainge would want the farm for Lauri, probably including players (including Murray) and picks. The Pels GM would most likely be doing something similar relative to Ingram.

So what’s the point of adding these guys if it ends up becoming a lateral or backwards move to obtain them based on what we had to give up to acquire them?

Fine line there and I’m ok with Monte not overreacting and going into potentially damaging “do something” mode just to, well, do something.

ScrumhalfVinny
July 3, 2024 8:54 am
Reply to  outrider

The rumors online were that Ainge was demanding Murray from the Kings and Kuminga from the Dubs, which is why Lauri is still on the Jazz. Neither team wants to give up their best young asset for him.

Personally, I don’t want to give up Murray either. Dude is a young 3&D wing with length at the very worst and he is only going into his 3rd season. I want to see if he makes the jump to become a more consistent three level scorer.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 9:51 am
Reply to  ScrumhalfVinny

I want to see reports of him trying to get Collins, Randle, Achiwau, Portis, or Stewart. Most of these players would not require Keegan and would help us a good amount. This should be the focus and might be easier and with less picks.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 9:16 am
Reply to  outrider

So what’s the point of adding these guys if it ends up becoming a lateral or backwards move to obtain them based on what we had to give up to acquire them?

Fine line there and I’m ok with Monte not overreacting and going into potentially damaging “do something” mode just to, well, do something.

Look everyone! Two perfectly reasonable sentences!

G-naps
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July 3, 2024 9:26 am
Reply to  outrider

Id like to add on here…..we’re not too far removed from this:

https://x.com/Joe_Pasternack/status/1047536475955294208/photo/1

I would like to see a move as much as anyone but I want it to be the right move.

Last edited 2 days ago by G-naps
MichaelMack
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July 3, 2024 9:27 am
Reply to  outrider

Well said.

The Kings have to see what Murray is this season before considering him for a trade. Neither Lauri or expiring contract Ingram is worth it, when they might not even be as valuable as Keegan two years from now.

Keegan should only be moved for a player clearly better than Fox or Sabonis, which would be a top 15 player in the NBA. Sans that, I would much rather get useful and fungible pieces (contributors at the level of Stewart, Cam, Collins, DFS, etc) to better round out the team and useful in packaging for a better player as they come available.

outrider
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July 3, 2024 10:01 am
Reply to  MichaelMack

Keegan should only be moved for a player clearly better than Fox or Sabonis, which would be a top 15 player in the NBA. Sans that, I would much rather get useful and fungible pieces (contributors at the level of Stewart, Cam, Collins, DFS, etc) to better round out the team and useful in packaging for a better player as they come available.

This is basically where I’m at.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 8:52 am

Sam Amick’s Kings update this morning sure doesn’t inspire much confidence. Basically he doubts the Kings get anything done for a big name we’ve heard because the only asset anyone wants is Keegan. Which makes perfect sense by the way.

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 8:58 am

The question is, since this should have been obvious from the start, why was this such an emphasis when there were other alternatives?

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 9:07 am
Reply to  oshima9

Yeah I don’t know. There were good players to be had on the margins that would have balanced the roster and improved the team. Most of those players are gone now.

vestxpress
July 3, 2024 9:04 pm

Maybe we tried and they didn’t want to come here.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 8:55 am

It’s a results-based business. Monte had a good off season in 22-23. Not so much in 23-24. And now here we are in 24-25.

Success isn’t linear. But to drop from #3 to #9 in the West is pretty substantial, especially when you consider that one prime contender (Memphis) fell out of the mix very early. And while I reserve the right to be wrong (and exercise that right frequently), I see a team that, all things being equal, is an 8-9 seed as we sit here this morning. Better than what we experienced for 16 years, but a team that is not packed with the promise that it had coming out of the 22-23 season.

If the organization does not address the roster needs that have been painfully apparent since the end of the 22-23 season, I feel sorry for the grief that Mike Brown will take while he spends another season pounding square pegs into round holes.

King4life
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July 3, 2024 9:15 am

Yes let’s cut McNair some slack.

Under his management, the Kings have missed the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. Despite this fact, the team hasn’t made any asset accumulation trades and missed on a lottery pick in Mitchel. This is why Murray is the only trade asset the team has.

But let’s cut McNair some slack. For some reason, other NBA teams don’t want to trade their good players for the Kings bad players. It’s the strangest thing. That’s why he can’t improve the roster. It’s not his fault, it never is.

SlamsonsRollerskates
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July 3, 2024 9:25 am
Reply to  King4life

You make some good points, but he also inherited Puke Walton, one of the biggest bust draft picks ever in Bagley, hit on Tyrese and Keegan (when almost everyone wanted Ivey), and ended the curse. After Vlade and Pete D’allasausage running this team I am extremely happy to have Monte.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 9:34 am

He inherited a sh*t show and turned it around pretty quickly.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 9:37 am
Reply to  Hobby916

He turned it into something respectable. Can he turn respectable into an actual contender? We don’t have any evidence of that yet.

SlamsonsRollerskates
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July 3, 2024 9:49 am

“It’s the deep breath before the plunge.”

Literally and figuratively, right now we are holding our breath.

tom4life2001
July 3, 2024 9:53 am
Reply to  King4life

This is the roster Monte inherited.
2019–20 Sacramento Kings season – Wikipedia

He traded for Sabonis, Huerter, and Lyles. He signed Malik Monk. He hired Mike Brown. He pulled Keon Ellis out of the undrafted pool. He has pulled out at least 4 rotational players (Huerter, Lyles, Monk, and Ellis) with Moe Harkless, Justin Holiday, a protected first, and cap space.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 10:03 am
Reply to  tom4life2001

My description would be that he razed an inhabitable home, put up a better one, but forgot to install the HVAC. And we’re now entering our second summer without HVAC. And we’re getting really hot and cranky. Many of our neighbors here on Western Conference Drive have HVAC. Why can’t we have HVAC?

SlamsonsRollerskates
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July 3, 2024 10:19 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Because of how good the fans are.

Jman1949
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July 3, 2024 10:49 am

With this heat wave we’re gonna need a bigger fan!

comment image&ct=g

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 10:53 am
Reply to  Jman1949

comment image

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 11:06 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Perhaps the price to have it installed is far beyond reasonable, or no one will agree to install it because it isn’t in their best interests.

That’s the problem with businesses: They reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 11:29 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Or it’s the price of living in your neighborhood – if you can’t afford to live there, get out and find something that is within your needs. And if you can’t find a service provider while your neighbors have, maybe the problem isn’t the service provider.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 12:33 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

So, if I’m following your analogy correctly, how would the Kings move out of or relocate to a more appropriate spot?

Does the analogy speak to McNair at all? I understood the thread to be about MM, but I may have that wrong as it relates to your comment.

And if it’s about Ranadive, would getting out of the neighborhood involve selling his stake in the organization? If so, who are likely suitors, and would they create the possibility of looser purse strings? Or likely offer credible assurance that they won’t get out of Sacramento to find something within their needs?

Assuming I have any of this right, I do think that the ownership group we have should have some willingness to eat a tax bill once in a while in order to increase the options available to McNair, if that’s a way to become a team that can contend.

I’m inferring that freon is money, but I’m a bit out of my depth.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 12:55 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

So, if I’m following your analogy correctly, how would the Kings move out of or relocate to a more appropriate spot?

Just put the fucking HVAC in and you don’t have the problem (translation: fix the roster). If the excuse (as you provided) is that you can’t afford HVAC, get out (translation: If you can’t fix the roster, get out, because the current construction of the roster is not great).

This isn’t (yet) about the Kings willingness to exceed the apron. I’m not one to defend Ranadive, but after last season I would task the front office with “show me.” That said, there are assets to get deals done. My suspicion is that the front office continues to stick to a valuation model that is not in step with the market. And that is their decision to make, and the results will be theirs to answer to.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 3:12 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I think you’re right on the money with this Rob simply because the more I’ve thought about it, this is a very Daryl Morey approach to things. Monte was Daryl’s right hand man for years and Daryl famously held on to players like Ben Simmons much longer than anyone thought possible to get the deal he wanted. Then he did basically did the same with Harden. The problem here is that I don’t know why anyone is ever going to capitulate because we’re not offering any assets with that kind of upside. It’s basically picks and flotsam.

So I think you’re right about the valuation. I don’t think Monte wants to do any trade he feels like is a “loss” however he defines it.

My only caveat is that I DO think Vivek wants him to stay below the luxury tax line at all costs. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this because the Kings make a move the puts them squarely over the line but I don’t believe the team has paid the tax at any point since Vivek got here. Which is going on season 13 I believe? Without any evidence to the contrary, I don’t know how anyone could argue he will go into the tax with any confidence. I think the apron is now a very convenient excuse for the team to use if we don’t spend up to it in the future.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 4:06 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Just put the fucking HVAC in and you don’t have the problem (translation: fix the roster).

Ah, yes. Just fix it. McNair should totally do that, and one is left wondering why he didn’t simply do that already. Because it’s that easy. We just need Ranadive to tell McNair to just fix the fucking roster, and then it’s just a matter of time until everyone is happy.

I don’t particularly want to run it back either, but if the path to change involves giving up Keegan Murray and a bunch of picks, it’s going to take someone better than Lauri Farking Markkannen or Kyle Kuzma for things to actually improve.

“Just fix it.”

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 7:22 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yes, Andy, because that is what I said.

Fuck context, right? Because what’s the use in having an honest, genuine conversation?

Results.

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 9:31 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Rob, what part of “Just put the fucking HVAC in and you don’t have the problem (translation: fix the roster)” was taken out of context?

We’re not talking about language with a ton of nuance.

I get that you’re frustrated. Everyone wants to see an improved roster, and some interesting proposals have been put down in various threads in the past few days. Others have been patently ridiculous. That’s fine, everyone has gone crazy from the heat.

Unless there’s a subtext that I’m not getting, which is entirely possible, suggesting that I’ve twisted your words isn’t borne out at all.

Sacto_J
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July 3, 2024 2:57 pm
Reply to  King4life

lol

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 9:19 am

Regarding Ingram and a possible extension, the Kings would only be able to offer him a 2 year extension for minimally more than he makes now. My guess is that Ingram would not do that.

Could he sign and extension with the Pelicans and then be traded to the Kings? Or does signing that extension mean that he can’t be traded until December?

He is probably looking at a 5 year, $200m extension, which may also be why no deal is happening with him.

Jack
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July 3, 2024 9:47 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Wouldn’t you do that for 40mil. Look at a lot of players who can’t compare with Ingram getting far more. I would do that but I’m not Vivek.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 10:26 am
Reply to  Jack

If the Kings get to keep Murray, Fox, Sabonis, and Monk, then yes.

However, the contracts start looking like a problem in a couple years. Domas has his extension, Fox is due next offseason, Keegan can sign one next offseason that will begin in the 2026 off season (I think), and then the Ingram extension at $40+m/year.

That would be like $150-170m/year for 5 players. Granted those players could always be moved if needed, but that is basically the tax line without including the other 10 players on the roster. Unless Vivek sells the team to someone that has much more money than him, I don’t think it happens.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 11:09 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Not disputing your point at all, but I do wonder how terribly uncommon it will be in two years for a given team’s numbers to look like this for their best five players.

We’re in an era where players that no one would refer to as superstars are getting thirty million per season.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 11:37 am
Reply to  andy_sims

The contracts for above average players (Quickley comes to mind) are ridiculous.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 12:35 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I’m still all about all players getting every dime that they can. Owners make money from their franchises, no matter how high salaries get.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 12:43 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yeah, I’ll never bemoan the money the actual players make while the boys with toys rake it in.

Mike120
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July 3, 2024 3:11 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I agree with you on that, but if players and owners took less, then tickets and concessions could be less for the fans as well. As a STH, it’s a grind every year to justify paying the price. I’ve gone from two prime seats, to two lesser seats, to partnering with someone on two seats, back to two much lesser seats. $15 for a 24oz beer? For less than double that, one can buy a whole case at a store.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 3, 2024 3:28 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Don’t go to Chase Center, Staples Center or I’ll wager, the soon to be opened Intuit Dome all in California.

Sticker Shock is relative.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 3:30 pm

“Congratulations, Mr. Questionable. Your loan has been approved. Welcome to Chase Center.”

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 4:23 pm
Reply to  Mike120

It’s not really on the players to take less, though. The market sets the price, and the players are the product. I’m sure if Cheez-Its were sentient, the price for a box would go up.

The issue is that the owners (and this certainly goes for beyond basketball and professional athletics) would need to be willing to live with the pain of their profit margins dropping from twenty percent down to seventeen.

If you asked your boss for a twenty percent raise, and she countered with seventeen, most people would walk away from that feeling pretty satisfied. Billionaires aren’t like that. Few millionaires are, either.

Why let fans come see a game for forty dollars a seat when you can get sixty? Can you make money charging forty? Of course. But sixty is more, and fans are like fruit that must be squeezed for every drop. Fans can also get a bit overripe. I, too, am a fan.

It’s the same principle as gas prices rising at a time when there are no shortages, supply problems, or other hindrances to the process. So why did gas prices go up?

Fuck you, that’s why. What are you going to do? Walk?

And that’s the bottom line. You can’t buy a ticket to see Sacramento’s other NBA team play, and therefore you must pay through the urethra for the privilege of seeing the Kings or any other pro team.

As The Onion noted, sometimes the invisible hand of the market comes back for seconds.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 1:02 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

If the owners are willing to give the players that much cash, then the players should take every dime they can get.

SlamsonsRollerskates
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July 3, 2024 9:43 am

The broad brushstrokes on Monte’s canvas are dry. Now, he’s negotiating the much more difficult subtleties and accents that tie everything together, or ruin the masterpiece. At this stage, there is more amplification for an error than a correct move. Making the right decision or acquisition will move the needle, but the wrong move will ruin the painting. He is being patient and surgical, as he should be.

G-naps
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July 3, 2024 9:56 am

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SlamsonsRollerskates
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July 3, 2024 10:02 am
Reply to  G-naps

Lol. Depending on the move(s) Monte makes, the red and orange above the tree line is either going to be a sunset or a forest fire.

outrider
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July 3, 2024 10:20 am
Reply to  G-naps

You know, it’s funny. Many, many years ago right after I moved to Sac, I was flipping through the seven channels (3, 6, 10, 13, 31, 40, 58) available to me at that time and I stumbled across Bob one Saturday morning on PBS. Between the hair, the threads and his manner of speaking, I thought he was some sort of hippy burnout worthy of my ridicule. But I tell you what, over the course of 30 minutes, I went from “This guy is a joke!” to “This guy is fucking awesome!” and I became a fan from that point forward.

Marty
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July 3, 2024 10:25 am
Reply to  outrider

Make sure you watch Bob Ross: Happy Accidents, Betrayal & Greed, it’s both triumphant and tragic. You’ll probably think twice about ever purchasing a Bob Ross item again.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 11:12 am
Reply to  outrider

This is word-for-word about how I feel about King Leopold II of Belgium.

RikSmits
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July 3, 2024 9:54 am

I strongly disagree with this part:

I definitely get the frustrations in not seeing the team make a big move, but I also think Monte McNair has an incredibly hard job trying to find a concrete upgrade for this team. Sacramento’s list of assets is not large after years of mismanagement.

Yes, in 2020-2021 Monte inherited a mediocre roster.

But he had all his first round picks, most or even more second rounders, and the worst contract on the roster was Buddy Hield’s, and that wasn’t even an albatross contract. He had sufficient time and opportunity to either upgrade the roster and/or fill the asset cupboard. He certainly had stuff to work with.

He partly succeeded with the roster upgrades, but at the expense of the asset cupboard, capspace and now we may be stuck with a team that has a relatively low ceiling and very little room for substantial improvement without blowing it up.

I think Monte has more to do with that than the situation he inherited.

Maybe he will surprise with a masterstroke and take the team to a next level. I hope so.

Scorliss_In_Sacramento
July 3, 2024 12:58 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I agree. Monte has been in charge long enough that he’s given away multiple picks just to get rid of his mistakes (Holmes, Mitchell, Vez).

He has more misses than hits at this point IMO.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 3, 2024 3:14 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Agreed Rik. The organization may have been a mess but for the most part, he had all his picks and a clean cap sheet. He didn’t have great talent on hand but it wasn’t nothing either.

CorlissWinlesson
July 3, 2024 10:11 am

Nice write up!

To take a line from your article:

“Sacramento’s list of assets is not large after years of mismanagement.”

Well put, the reality is that we are facing two challenges to improving our roster in my opinion, prior mismanagement and being a small market team.

Additionally, I’d like to point out that if we are to take a step back and look at last season through Monte’s eyes (assuming I’m correct), he just had a team the year prior that almost won a series against the Warriors and couldn’t do it in large part because Fox had a hand injury.

Coming into this season, one would assume Keegan would continue to grow, and I believe there was optimism that Heurter and Sabonis if given the opportunity would improve their playoff performance. We did get growth from Keegan, and Sabonis was excellent, but Heurter fell off. To add to this, Monk got injured and adding Vezenkov versus another move did not pan out in any positive way.

Just my opinion, but believe Monte’s optimism going into last season was justified given the facts of the season prior. This season, he should not have the false hope and therefore I do expect him to make some tweaks to try and get us over the hump.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 10:27 am

I agree that it was a bit justified during the summer. It made sense to stay patient (I disagreed at the time and of course do now, but it made a small bit of sense). We were about 3 wins away from the 7th seed. We literally blew too many leads (more than 3 from what I recall and many were in the fourth quarter)!!!

What is not justified is a huge miss at the trade deadline. Dallas makes some good moves and the rest is history. Monte may have tried, but not even a small move was made. We needed defenders at the wing, but we didn’t even get guys, like Chris Dunn, Dorrel Wright, Thybulle, etc . .small moves would have helped before February.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 10:33 am
Reply to  DCKing

To your point, I would rather judge this team off of the current Western Conference than the 2007 – 2022 Kangz.

Marty
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July 3, 2024 10:22 am

Well if nothing gets done I’m sure Fox won’t notice.

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 10:35 am
Reply to  Marty

I was holding off on mentioning this until later in the week

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 10:43 am
Reply to  Marty

Devin Carter will save us all.
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Marty
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July 3, 2024 10:55 am
Reply to  RobHessing

I like to remember, nobody saw the trade for Sabonis coming. I suppose that’s the hope professional sports teams want us to hold on to.

Last edited 2 days ago by Marty Marty
G-naps
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July 3, 2024 11:17 am
Reply to  Marty

It is somewhat refreshing knowing that the GM can keep his mouth shut, unlike previous GM’s/FO when it comes to doing a deal. In turn it keeps players/agents from using the Kings as leverage for a better deal.

Marty
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July 3, 2024 11:24 am
Reply to  G-naps

For sure. We’ve never been in the “A-list free agent” market so I don’t lose any sleep over the inactivity.

A_Night_At_The_Arco
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July 3, 2024 11:34 am

I’ve been through enough of these off seasons to keep my expectations tempered. I do think the Pacific is going to be wide open this season, but I also don’t think Jalen McDaniels and a draft pick are all we can hope for. That said, I do expect something more like Kessler Edwards, not the other former/current all-stars mentioned. I also think Vivec loves to save money and probably still has more sway in the front office, but I have no reports suggesting it.

Just my gut.

scottymusprime
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July 3, 2024 12:08 pm

Fun Fact!

Only 10 players have made an NBA all-star team for the first time *AFTER* leaving the team that drafted them. They are:

Chauncey Billups

Drafted by: Boston Celtics (1997)First All-Star appearance: Detroit Pistons (2006)Brad Miller

Drafted by: Charlotte Hornets (1998)First All-Star appearance: Indiana Pacers (2003)Chauncey Billups

Drafted by: Boston Celtics (1997)First All-Star appearance: Detroit Pistons (2006)Steve Francis

Drafted by: Vancouver Grizzlies (1999)First All-Star appearance: Houston Rockets (2002)Zach Randolph

Drafted by: Portland Trail Blazers (2001)First All-Star appearance: Memphis Grizzlies (2010)Mo Williams

Drafted by: Utah Jazz (2003)First All-Star appearance: Cleveland Cavaliers (2009)Gerald Wallace

Drafted by: Sacramento Kings (2001)First All-Star appearance: Charlotte Bobcats (2010)Kyle Lowry

Drafted by: Memphis Grizzlies (2006)First All-Star appearance: Toronto Raptors (2015)Victor Oladipo

Drafted by: Orlando Magic (2013)First All-Star appearance: Indiana Pacers (2018)Lauri Markkanen

Drafted by: Chicago Bulls (2017)First All-Star appearance: Utah Jazz (2023)So first of all, let’s be clear about being cranky that Monte didn’t sign a Najji Marshall or DJJ to come save the day for the MLE. It’s much likelier for that to become a bad and bloated contract or end of bench fodder or an injury than for them to make a big jump. Teams don’t usually let future All-Strs go (Hello Grizzlies being on the list above twice! It would be 3 PGs if Bibby had ever been selected)

I like that we’re hunting big game. That’s the smoke and it seems to be the case with how things are shaking out. My guess is that the hold up has to do with negotiating extensions for these guys (as with Siakam’s non-trade) before we pull the trigger on anything big. We’re not looking for a rental and the trade is likely going to come down to whether or not these are trade & extends or rentals where we risk losing out.

Remember when Vlade had his draft board posted on social media? Remember when leaks came out about everything all the time? We don’t have that issue right now. Monte isn’t perfect. He’s missed struck out looking on things I might swing at. But that’s why I’m not the GM.

If this off season is a dud and we really do run it back again, The Kings better win a playoff series or two because otherwise I think Monte’s course is run (which is a shame as he seems to be a good guy who drafts well and wears nice vests). But I’d be really surprised if we’re done. Hollinger’s article the other day mentions that several teams are pretty quiet and it’s likely because of trades. I think Sac is one of them, and if so, we could be very intriguing next year and even beyond.

Teams that are definitely better/deeper than they were last year int he West so far:
OKC
Spurs
Warriors on the margins?
Mavs on offense maybe?
Pelicans think they are but I’m not sure I’d trade all they’ve lost in FA, trade and picks for Dejounte Murray.

Teams that are worse off than last year:
Nuggets (lost KCP)
Clippers (lost PG, but added depth)

The suns and lakers are another year older. The Rockets are fiesty and the grizz will be healthy, but who knows how Ja is going to be after being off the court for two years. I dunno. I’m content to wait. There’s not a ton left that I’d be giddy about spending our MLE for, and I’m not sure I’d have been ecstatic about shooting all of it on a day one guy either.

Last edited 2 days ago by Scott Savage
RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 12:11 pm
Reply to  scottymusprime

“You said Billups twice.”
“I like Billups.”
“Kinky.”
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Klam
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July 3, 2024 12:14 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

How many times do we have to say the name?
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1951
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July 3, 2024 12:13 pm
Reply to  scottymusprime

The Kings better win a playoff series or two because otherwise I think Monte’s course is run (which is a shame as he seems to be a good guy who drafts well and wears nice vests).

Mayhaps, but I fear who this FO would be able to replace him with more than I fear Monte’s inability to close another big trade!

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 12:28 pm
Reply to  scottymusprime

Remember several off-season’s ago when many Kings fans wanted Dewayne Dedmon because they thought he was an amazing compliment to Cousins? That didn’t work out too well. It is a lesson that we as fans don’t really know shit. We look at stats and height/weight and think a player will be “perfect”, but there is a lot more that goes in to it than that.

Monte has shown competence in his 4 years, hasn’t really had a “bad” signing/trade that hampered the future of the team.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 12:41 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

4th season upcoming for this FO. Understanding the shitshow that they inherited, they did make the conscious decision to fast track the team’s turnaround via the Hali for Sabonis trade. So with that as a backdrop:
1st year – Miss the playoffs (expected)
2nd year – Made playoffs (unexpected), lost in 1st round (not unexpected)
3rd year – Missed playoffs (unexpected)

Where does this team need to be this season to validate the actions (and more importantly, the inactions) of the front office?

This is the 3rd full season of Sabonis, Fox and Murray. Anything short of a top 6 finish and locked playoff spot will be a disappointment for me.

“All motion is relative, Matt. Maybe it’s you who’ve moved away by standing still.” – Henry Drummond, Inherit the Wind

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 12:59 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Top 6 and locked playoff spot has to be the measure (barring catastrophic injury). I think the team as a whole played well last season, but they underachieved. There was defensive improvement which was sorely needed, now they need to improve on that and not throw away games like last season.

If they end up in the play-in or out of the top 10 altogether, then I could see some heads rolling at the end of the season.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 1:01 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

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1951
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July 3, 2024 1:05 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Let’s say the Kings don’t hit those marks by getting bounced in the play in again.

You trust this ownership/FO group to replace Monte with someone better?

(Not really a ringing endorsement, I know, but at least Monte has demonstrated some level of competent NBA executive-ing, which is more than I can say for the other two hires.)

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 1:13 pm
Reply to  1951

I do not. But being satisfied with this FO because it could be worse would be the most Kangzish way to look at this.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 3, 2024 1:22 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

For nearly all of the over 3 decades that the Kings have been in Sacramento we fans have been trained to expect and accept little.

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RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 1:26 pm

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BuiltToSpill
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July 5, 2024 12:29 pm

“…we fans have been trained to expect and accept little.”

I understand where this is coming from on one level. But honestly, what is our alternative? When the Kings suck, I don’t spend nearly as much time paying attention to them. I’ve got a life that is separate from my fandom. I spend more time on that part of my life than I do on the Kings. I might watch the game, I might not. I usually turn the game off when they go down by 20.

The point is that “acceptance” is a pretty broad term. I rage about how much the Kings suck when they suck. I don’t buy tickets as often. I stop watching so many games. I pay closer attention to the Niners and Giants instead. I talk with my fellow Kings fans about how historically terrible they are and we all shake our heads in unison over our disappointment. None of those things could be categorized as acceptance.

Do I accept that the Kings being horrible is completely out of my control? Well yeah. In that sense, I guess you could say I accept that fact at face value. Personally, I’ve seen the “we’re conditioned to accept mediocrity” argument 1,000’s of times. Maybe you’re talking about yourself. But I don’t accept that the franchise has to be terrible and when they are, I just do other things until they more fully capture my attention.

1951
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July 3, 2024 1:52 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Sure, I hear ya. And yet there is an immovable reality that Kings fans do need to accept when calling for personnel changes: the top of the Kings FO power structure is not going to change.

It’s all nice and dandy to not compromise and hold Monte (or any other Kings GM) to a high NBA standard. In the end, it goes back to the same FO to hire someone else to do (and properly equip to do) the job. The same FO that, so far, hired the likes of Petey D, Vlade D, and Monte McVesty. So is basically 1/3 if you like Monte and 0/3 if you declare Monte unsuccessful to the point of termination.

I am not asking anyone to be satisfied, just asking people to be aware of what firing Monte actually results in. And ask themselves: Would it be likely to get the Kings closer to achieving that higher standard/expectation or not?

1951
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July 3, 2024 1:56 pm
Reply to  1951

It’s all nice and dandy to not compromise and hold Monte (or any other Kings GM) to a high NBA standard.

I should say “mediocre NBA standard” since over 1/2 the teams make the playoffs! lol

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 1:13 pm
Reply to  1951

Anjali should be done with her schooling by then, so Vivek has the next GM lined up.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 1:35 pm
Reply to  1951

They wouldn’t replace Monte, but sure have the justification to if we miss out on at least the 8th seed. We would likely hire an assistant GM, who we trust to help him get out of his head and make some good decisions. I don’t know who that future GM could be, but an up and coming youngish mind would need to be found.

Hamlet1989
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July 5, 2024 8:44 am
Reply to  1951

I’m willing to bet my house Monte get’s a new job before Vivek has a new GM. And maybe not willing to bet, but I feel certain Monte’s team will see the playoffs before Vivek’s. I was bummed when they lost Scott Perry to NY, and look what the Knicks have done since. Devin Carter is the the final determiner. If he competes for ROY, he’s the crown jewel on MM’s draft resume. That’s hitting on 3 out of 4 draft picks with no busts (Davion is serviceable). If Davion breaks-out in Toronto he could be 4 of 4. Of course if they both have had their best games, then I’ve counted our chickens before they’ve hatched. And maybe I’ve given MM too much credit on too small of a sample size, but DC is the one guard I kept going back to looking at this draft. The defense, the rebounding, the clutch shooting. He has the talent, the body, and the patina of an NBA star. I’m optimistic Monte has reset the Mitchell pick with a defensive style more suitable to a Fox backcourt pairing; see Keon Ellis. The Kings need one more piece under team control. Fingers crossed. Welcome back BTW. Good timing. The offseason is actually more fun around this forum.

Hamlet1989
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July 5, 2024 8:50 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Also, the Kings landed the #2 player available in free agency this offseason. MM didn’t want PG, too old, too expensive.

BuiltToSpill
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July 5, 2024 12:34 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Yeah, DC is the one player I kept reading about who I felt would be BPA if he fell to the Kings. Then after we made the pick and I really started watching highlights, I was downright giddy over the pick. It’s not a position of need but that doesn’t matter to me at all. Of course, I’m no player evaluation expert – I just like what I see.

Carl
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July 3, 2024 1:27 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Where does this team need to be this season to validate the actions (and more importantly, the inactions) of the front office?

Second round of the playoffs. They don’t get to reset expectations to losing in the first round because they backslid due to inactivity last season.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 3, 2024 2:29 pm
Reply to  Carl

IMO, the bar is set at a solid top 6 performance. Whether or not they win a 1st round playoff series is almost entirely dependent on matchups, at least that has been the case recently.

If, MM decides to run it back (because he can’t find what he perceives to be a fair deal on a move he likes this offseason), then the bar is still set at “playoff team” (top 6). MM will still have the trade deadline to make a move plus it gives time for Huerter to get back to his averages and show that his injury and poor season last year are behind him.

And in all honesty, in regards to the Kings trade package that can be offered, Huerter and Barnes and Duarte will all be on expiring contracts next year, which will be much more valuable than they are right.

It’s not what I wish would happen, but its why I don’t see any of this current inactivity as signs of doom and gloom.

Jack
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July 3, 2024 3:06 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I think Lyles and Jones should be added to your list.

Hamlet1989
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July 5, 2024 6:23 am
Reply to  scottymusprime

Vivek’s appropriate responses to missing the playoffs:

1) Acknowledge his own influence is counter-productive, and focus on bringing baseball to Sac. Or MLS!
2) Prepare first for the next rebuild
3) Get a more proven coach
4) Don’t toss the baby (MM) with the bathwater
5) Sell the team

Last edited 15 hours ago by Hamlet1989
JoeEnzyme
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July 3, 2024 12:27 pm

“bullets in the chamber”
I invite you and all of us to move away from violent metaphors. I am more aware of this in my world, and am trying to grow along these lines. Instead of saying, “that sax player killed it on his solo,” we can say, “that sax player was truly extraordinary in that solo.” Gets the same point across.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 12:29 pm
Reply to  JoeEnzyme

comment image

Kingofkings2410
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July 3, 2024 12:48 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Lol that is the meanest eye roll known to man

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 1:14 pm

I had that gif locked and loaded.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 12:57 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

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Mike120
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July 3, 2024 4:32 pm
Reply to  JoeEnzyme

Listen to any group of comedians and they always talk about a killer set or killing it.

Bluejohn
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July 3, 2024 5:23 pm
Reply to  JoeEnzyme

I get it……..that sax player was truly extraordinary in that solo but he can’t shoot, has no handle, no hops and he can’t hit his floater from 2 feet away from the hoop. I feel like killing him.

Carl
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July 3, 2024 1:01 pm

Sacramento’s list of assets is not large after years of mismanagement.

Noting that this is the current front office’s fourth offseason, if you don’t count starting in September 2020. I believe the only players left from that team are Barnes and Fox. Whatever asset problems there are are pretty tough to blame on the last administration at this point.

That being said, the Kings were almost never even average since Rick Adelman left almost two decades ago. This front office certainly deserves credit and some slack for making this team a lot better.

It’s also a results oriented league. They didn’t/couldn’t make improvements last offseason and the result was predictable. If the same thing happens this offseason, the team will be in the same place or worse a year from now. At some point, time has to run out on blaming other teams stubbornness or whatever for the lack of improvement on the Kings. That’s not today, but if they stand pat again this offseason, I’m personally going to be REAL out of patience a year from now.

murraytant
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July 3, 2024 1:03 pm
Reply to  Carl

if NOP want a center- how about Ayton?, Vuvivic, Wendall Carter or Clint Capela? There are centers out there.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 1:05 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Poeltl too.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 1:25 pm
Reply to  Carl

Agreed! I hope everyone here expects the best from ourselves and from the GM/owner. We are all accountable at some level and probably remember times when others were objective and gave us reality checks in our lives. We are doing that now with Monte.

Yes, we know that Bagley and Davion were bad picks, so there’s 1 mistake made by Monte. The others were the lack of small moves from last year. He has done decently well, but we want better than average. We believe that he can be a good GM, but we need to see that in the next few days or it will be a reminder to standing still last summer and at the trade deadline.

OldDude50
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July 3, 2024 1:16 pm

Sometimes I have to laugh at the impatience on this site. We act as though Monte doesn’t want to win, or isn’t aware of the fan’s desire to see this team in the playoffs. As though he doesn’t know the league and the players and what they would bring to THIS team. He has to know the contracts, cap limits, and deal with agents who are trying to wring every penny out of him as they negotiate.

We talk as though he doesn’t have an owner (boss) who he answers to and who might have more influence than he should on these decisions. We think he’s just sitting in his office doing nothing, when his job and what will affect his family’s lives isn’t always on his mind.

I think he’s done a decent job. Good draft picks, acquitted players that are good citizens, a team that likes playing together, a good coach, and now we’re ready for the next step.

I for one think he’s on the right track and that he’ll put a better team on the floor this year that will compete for a playoff spot and make it for years to come. I guess we’ll see, but I can be patient because I like the trajectory we’re on.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 1:19 pm
Reply to  OldDude50

3rd to 9th is not my preferred trajectory.

OldDude50
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July 3, 2024 1:22 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Mine either, but from Bill Walton and Marvin Bagley to Mike Brown and Keegan is.

Last edited 2 days ago by OldDude50
RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 1:24 pm
Reply to  OldDude50

Right. This goes back to whether your yardstick is Luke Walton and Marvin Bagley, or if your yardstick is the NBA Western Conference. Mine is the latter.

Last edited 2 days ago by RobHessing
OldDude50
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July 3, 2024 1:30 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I get that, but my point is still the same. This team has improved under Monte, and I trust it will continue to. Time will tell soon.

CheekMagnet
July 3, 2024 4:31 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

We should’ve outbid the Knicks right Rob? 6 unprotected first round picks. One step closer to that championship!

Actually now that I’m thinking about it… 20 unprotected first round picks for Wenbenyama. Do it Monte!!

Last edited 2 days ago by CheekMagnet
RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 7:27 pm
Reply to  CheekMagnet

Is that what I suggested?

NorCalKingsFan
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July 3, 2024 2:36 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I agree, but I think we also can agree that growth isn’t always linear.

A 1yr drop before getting back to the same tier (basically seeds 3-6) is fine, as it long as it was only a 1yr drop and not a trend in the wrong direction.

OldDude50
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July 3, 2024 1:25 pm
Reply to  OldDude50

Meant “acquired”, not “acquitted”. Thank God none need to be acquitted either.

jwalker1395
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July 3, 2024 2:09 pm

The Good:
– Extending Mike Brown
– Locking Malik Monk on a long term, team friendly deal
– Resigning Alex Len
– Drafting Devin Carter (who I believe will be a very good basketball very early into his career).

The Bad:
– Trading Davion+Sasha+picks for Jalen McDaniels. I understand this was a move to cut salary, and trading two 3rd stringers and second rounders isn’t going to set the franchise back in any monumental way, but until something is done with that freed up salary, this is simply a bad deal.
– Letting free agency pass us by (Jalen Smith and Naji Marshall both would’ve been excellent pieces to this team that went for deals the Kings could have outbid with the MLE), which further accentuates how bad the above trade was if nothing else is in the works
– The near misses on trades, which has become thematic for Monte. PJ Washington, Kuzma, Caruso, Siakam, etc. etc. Monte has a great eye for talent that will help this team and contribute to winning basketball, but leaves a lot to be desired in terms of actually acquiring that talent. I understand that there’s more nuance to this then described here, but it’s starting to raise some red flags.

Overall, I’ll still wait until the end of the offseason to judge. But we need at least one new rotation caliber forward with length, athleticism, defense, and shooting on this roster before the season begins. Otherwise, it’ll be hard for me to be thrilled with what is a crucial offseason. But one mustn’t lose sight of the fact that this franchise is worlds better with monte than it was without him – but he can’t coast on that goodwill forever.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 3, 2024 2:38 pm

Notes on the word Patient
What the Front Office is saying:
comment image

What Kings fans are expecting
comment image

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 4:59 pm

“Life is all about perspective”
-Dr. Jelly Finger

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July 3, 2024 8:48 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

And his assistant- Dr. Ben Dover

NorCalKingsFan
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July 3, 2024 3:01 pm

I understand the idea that MM should be criticized for not improving the team enough in his time here but I just can’t put any energy into it at all.

The team’s FO now operates the way a competently run team should operate and since MM has become the GM, we’ve seen Vivek take a back seat (at least publicly, which is all we can really ask for from an owner). He brought in a coach who challenges his players to get better, he evidenced that there is finally stability in the organization when he accepted an extension himself and then he re-signed Mike Brown (winningest coach since Adelman). In tandem, those two have undoubtedly changed the culture here in the locker room. The team is now competitive on a nightly basis and losing is no longer acceptable. The team is finally being steered by professional decision makers who have done enough to have earned my trust and patience.

Now go do SOMETHING Monte! (JK…kind of)

CheekMagnet
July 3, 2024 3:22 pm

I agree with the article, we don’t even need to do anything drastic. Just try to stay healthy and we should be guaranteed playoffs.

Once we’re in then anything can happen. See Mavs.

If we can find that one starter in FA without losing anyone then we have a solid 10 man rotation.

Fox/Carter
Ellis/Monk
FA?/Huerter
Keegan/Barnes
Sabonis/Len/Lyles

Carter, Monk, Huerter, Barnes, Len as the bench unit is pretty solid.

Jack
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July 3, 2024 4:01 pm
Reply to  CheekMagnet

Miles Bridges if he has turned around. I don’t know how you judge that.

CheekMagnet
July 3, 2024 4:25 pm
Reply to  Jack

I thought he already signed with Clippers but if not I’m open to him. Hope he learned the lesson and makes the world a better place, like all of us on this forum.

andy_sims
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July 3, 2024 4:32 pm
Reply to  Jack

If he moves to Sacramento, buys a home, and doesn’t put a billiards table in it, that would feel like progress. Avoiding temptation is important when you have a problem.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 4:57 pm
Reply to  Jack

Some things are forgivable, domestic violence and child abuse charges are not. He is a deal breaker as a fan for me.

MidtownMike
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July 3, 2024 6:01 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

You would not watch or comment here? Doubt it…did that stop you during all the other times we had those types?

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 6:07 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

Like Matt Barnes? I wasn’t around much then. The occasional “Matt Barnes sucks” comments. Guess my views on those types of things have changed since I have kids now.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 7:29 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

You need to read up on what Bridges has done. Horrific.

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 4:21 pm

Time to cut Monte Mcnair and the entire ownership group a bunch of slack.

The Kings fan base has forgotten how lucky they are to have them and the team here. At least they almost competitive now. When the Warriors fans and Lakers fan fill the arena at the least the games are competitive. This team is a place in Sacramento to go watch the NBA. Be joyous and give praise to the ownership group for giving us that.

The NBA is the same as the WWE. The good players are not told to come here.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 7:32 pm
Reply to  ShaneKC

The Kings fan base has forgotten how lucky they are to have them and the team here. 

I have not, but it is not germane to the conversation. Put another way, what is the statute of limitations on this? Can we never criticize? Maybe after 50 years? 25? And who gets to make that call?

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 10:22 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

It is germane to the conversation because it in my comment responding to an article talking about cutting Monte some slack.

5 years, ten years, 125 years. As fans we get to watch the NBA in Sacramento. Basic logic shows that this team exists for entertainment. This team has no real intention of winning.

Be glad we can watch the other teams and the stars when they come to town. Enjoy the NBA in Sacramento.

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 11:10 pm
Reply to  ShaneKC

OK. Your bar is set at “Yay, NBA basketball.” My bar is set slightly higher than that.

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 11:59 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

My bar is set at watching really good basketball. The Kings can do that sometimes. It is not their purpose. It has rarely been their purpose. Their history shows this to be true.

If the bar is NBA contender or NBA Finals then this team is not the one.

I am fortunate enough to see games in many different cities and have seen something different than the Kings. I am a Kings fan because I enjoy basketball. The great basketball and winning fan in me finds that in other cities. The rest of the NBA does not know who Sasha is. The rest of the NBA is not going crazy for an undrafted guy who plays because nobody else is available. That is what makes this team and it’s fan base special.

RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 8:30 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

Respectfully, most fan bases of fair to bad teams have those lumps of coal on their rosters that they feel can be fashioned into diamonds. And in the same way that casual NBA fans may not know Sasha, we (as a fan base) do not know the Hayward Highsmiths of the league until they (a) become free agents and (b) potentially fit our need.

I am a Kings fan because they reside here. In the 38 seasons that I’ve rooted for them (24 as a season ticket holder), I have seen far more bad basketball than good from them. Currently, they have what has historically been a rare opportunity to be truly competitive, a top 10 team (as they were two seasons ago). I feel that it is unfortunate that they are not truly grasping the opportunity.

I’m happy that you’re happy with the Kings, regardless of the product that they put on the floor. And to your point, I can watch them and enjoy them on a game to game basis. But my bar for them is set higher. If it were not – if the forward progress did not matter to me – I’d reroute my attention to the Rivercats.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 1:12 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

38 years as a fan and 24 as a season ticket holder doesn’t support your point. Two years ago was two years ago not now. They didn’t grasp the opportunities then and they declined. That opportunity has passed. Currently this is not a top ten team.

Teams that made a run this year and didn’t quite make it are making changes with the intent to improve and win. Those teams see the reality that they do not have enough currently so they do something. The Kings have not done that.

The Kings are generally entertaining if you are ok with ignoring the bad basketball at times.

It is ok to be a Kings fan and Rivercats fan.

Last edited 1 day ago by ShaneKC
RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 1:24 pm
Reply to  ShaneKC

It’s not a “point.” It’s how I prefer to fan. Your mileage obviously varies, and that is 100% your right.

I’m not a fan of mediocrity, and I think that describes a team that is 9th in West, does not make the playoffs, and then does not make moves to improve. I am happy for you (no snark) that you can find joy and happiness within that mediocrity. I will still watch and will still be entertained in the moment, but the macro will be one of disappointment if this year’s season is similar to last.

ShaneKC
July 5, 2024 12:06 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Ninth in the West is not the same thing as a top ten NBA team.

Unless we are consistently narrowing the perspective for a narrative?

Either way this isn’t a playoff team. It is definitely more entertaining and we get to see the top ten teams when they come to town.

oshima9
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July 4, 2024 6:03 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

Sadly, this does appear to be limit of what the Kings owners will do. Appreciate the candor.

Mike120
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July 3, 2024 4:24 pm

Here’s what I’d like to see:
add John Collins
trade Huerter, Duarte
let JaVale go
keep Barnes and Lyles as bench bigs.
not give up a lot of first round picks. That’s our future. We already wasted one to dump Holmes and will probably lose another to ATL for Huerter.
Hoping for major improvement from Keegan with Fox, Monk, and Sabonis staying about the same or marginally better. Need Carter to be a stud and Keon to improve his shooting and ball handling. If this does not get us a top 6 seed, then blow it up. Trade everyone but Keegan and Carter for future picks. Suck royally for three years accumulating top five picks and build it back up.

Last edited 2 days ago by Mike120
DCKing
July 3, 2024 4:42 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Washington wants two picks and NO probably wants 2-3 picks. It’s ridiculous to chase these teams, who want that many picks. Collins is the best fit any way, so just close the deals ASAP and move on much faster. If they want a first round pick for Collins, then ask for one of their young players with Collins. Otherwise, just send them two second round picks and help the Jazz clear him from the payroll.

Mike120
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July 3, 2024 7:04 pm
Reply to  DCKing

Yep, I don’t think it will take much to get John Collins. Best value/fit for a starting PF. Lock that in and then keep eyes open for other deals that might arise.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:02 am
Reply to  Mike120

John Collins is a good basketball player. Look at his stats. He fits really well next to Sabonis for what we need. The difference between him and say Markannen in terms of fit isn’t that far apart. The difference in cost isn’t even close. You can get Collins probably without using a first which IMO is fantastic. Now you have the rest of you assets to go get one or two more very good players of need. Ex. Use Huerter to get your backup center like Isaiah Stewart. Use your MLE to get a good player. Ex. I would use the BAE to get Shaddiq Bey. He right now is injured and probably won’t be back until Dec. or Jan. But you now have a really good backup forward. It IMO is fit and players who like each other and willing to sacrifice to that end. GO KINGS!

Adamsite
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July 3, 2024 4:36 pm

We are over 2 years of Monte trading for Huerter, which IMO was the last significant move to improve this Kings team. There have been zero trades, free agent signings, or draft picks that have moved the needle one bit in the right direction in that time. In fact, two trades involved Monte having to shell out picks to get rid of contracts that he gave in Holmes, Davion, and Sasha. That’s approaching Vlade like GM’ing

2 years is an eternity in basketball rosters. Teams aren’t that continuous with their rotations unless the term “dynasty” is being discussed. We are now approaching the 3rd straight season where the same 6 core players will be getting the lions share of minutes…unless a move is made.

I’m gonna be so disappointed and discouraged if this offseason is pretty much a wrap for the Kings. If this is how the roster begins the season, I’ll be disgusted. So far the team has basically swapped Edwards for McDaniels and Davion for Carter. It’s damn near the same roster…again.

It was a week ago that Monte made a “cap clearing move” and since then only Len has been signed to the vet minimum. Most NBA rotations are set with just the free agent leftovers signing for end of the bench roles. IMO, there is no trade available today that wasn’t available 2 days ago (pun intended). If Monte holds some press conference in the coming days and says things like “remain flexible” and “internal growth” I may check out for the season. It may be the first year in likely decades that I won’t be attending a single game.

The Kings currently project to be around 24th in payroll which tracks with much of the Vivek era in terms of spending. It’s just growing increasingly hard to support an ownership group and team that doesn’t seem willing to compete but has zero issue with raising the costs of entertainment on the fans.

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 4:48 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If we have the same six players maybe we can win just as many games?

I don’t think it is fair to expect the owners to pay for more players if we don’t go to the games. If the owner can save money and still have the same players that seems smart.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 4:55 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

As an A’s fan, Penny pinching owners is what I am accustomed to!!! Very apropos that Vivek joined with another penny pincher?

As for the roster, I think moving Davion will make the team better. He was pretty bad for about 60 games, and then his 3s starting dropping (SSS approved). We discussed his bad defense that was backed up by basically every defensive metric.

McDaniels does give Keegan a long wing to practice against so he doesn’t get flustered by the Pelicans next season. Silver linings!

Adamsite
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July 3, 2024 5:04 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

You know I’m no fan of Davion, but he was 8th in total minutes on a team that didn’t make the playoffs.

I get the love affair with new picks, but Carter is the #13 pick in a bad draft and hasn’t seen a minute of NBA time. As far as I’m concerned, he still has to prove that he’s even the slightest bit more than this season’s version of Davion Mitchell. Anyone saying he’s already better is just pulling things from their pooper.

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 6:02 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Saying he is better than Davion at this point is the same as declaring Jimmer an NBA player before he landed in Sacramento.

Hobby916
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July 3, 2024 6:04 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I am just glad that it means Ellis will get more of the minutes that would have went to Davion. I have no clue if Carter will be good or not, but not having Davion is a plus.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:06 am
Reply to  Hobby916

IMO and only watching Carter in college it seems to me as an old coach that he will be a very good NBA player. Time will tell but I think Monty made a really good choice.

jwalker1395
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July 3, 2024 6:45 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Have you watched the tape? He’s better than Davion. He’s probably better than Ellis, and he might push for the starting SG spot by the postseason.

“13th pick in a bad draft” is a complete abstraction, just like how Jokic is “only a second round pick.” The player in practice is what matters, and Devin Carter is a DOG.

Adamsite
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July 3, 2024 6:49 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Now those are some purple colored glasses.

jwalker1395
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July 3, 2024 6:54 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Nope. Just my normal prescription lenses while I watched Carter’s tape, the most NBA ready and complete prospect in the draft. And I believed this before he was drafted.

Last edited 2 days ago by Jacob Walker
ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 10:25 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I also think he is better than Ellis. The Kings ran out of players so Ellis had to play. Luckily it worked out. Carter will likely play in front of Ellis.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:09 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

Right now IMO he won’t. Maybe later but now glad he is a King. Having Ellis and Carter together is a really good thing.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 7:18 am
Reply to  Jack

Carter is going to be fun to watch. I think he is the real deal. It is also fun having Ellis here.

If he gets bumped by Carter it is a short drive to Stockton to watch him play.

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 9:46 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

So if Carter becomes the starter (rhyme inadvertent, my apologies), then you launch your current starting shooting guard all the way past the bench into another area code?

DC is going to be a good NBA player, I believe that, but Ellis defends exceptionally well, and his shooting proficiency is fairly well established. Unless Carter is knocking down threes north of 37-38%, he makes a lot more sense playing alongside Monk than Fox.

ShaneKC
July 5, 2024 10:14 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Is Ellis starting?

BuiltToSpill
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July 5, 2024 1:06 pm
Reply to  Jack

Absolutely. Two defense-minded players among our guards? On the Kings? Who is this team?

We’ll see if DC can score, but dude’s got a solid vertical leap, a great wingspan, and his highlight reel showed tons of athletic drives. That bodes well. And defense is far more likely to translate from college to the pros than offense is. I’d be willing to bet that he’ll be better than Keon soon enough. I’ll definitely bet he’s a solid contributor out of the gate and that nobody is going to care that he’s 13th in a bad draft.

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 8:15 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

But what if Carter is more Donovan than Davion Mitchell? Giannis got drafted in the teens in a “bad” draft. Don’t be too disappointed. I wasn’t really that excited 2 seasons ago until almost 40 games in! I thought they were just on a hot streak. And they were! I think if you were in MM’s position, with 2 years left on your contract you would be more likely to find patience in this situation.
Everyone Monte has been seriously interested in this offseason is still out there. He has no need to rush. A week ago neither Markkanen, or DeRozen was available. Two weeks ago Bridges wasn’t available yet. The dominos have only just started to fall.

oshima9
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July 3, 2024 6:23 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Thanks for raising the fact that the Kings are 24th in payroll (I thought they were 23rd). If you look at the other teams around them, it’s pretty grim, with, if I remember correctly, OKC and the Pelicans, the exceptions. OKC’s signing of Hartenstein should push them higher. Hard to be that good if the team isn’t around the middle.

Adamsite
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July 3, 2024 6:26 pm
Reply to  oshima9

The only competitive team below them is Orlando, but that is only because their 2 best players are still on their rookie deals and KCP is their highest paid player.

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 10:26 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I like watching Orlando when they are here. They seem to be making big improvements.

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 9:40 am
Reply to  Adamsite

That’s approaching Vlade like GM’ing

Oh, horseshit.

CoreyBrewersD
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July 3, 2024 5:39 pm

Good evening all, maybe time for a new handle…
Nice article, I would be OK with running it back. If only to keep Keegan. If Fox gets weird we could easily trade him for a legit AllStar … Jimmy Butler anyone?
I saw Buddy’s name up there and I couldn’t resist chiming in on an article I read touting Buddy to the Dubs as a “perfect” Thompson replacement, wow how the tables are turning.

Last edited 2 days ago by CoreyBrewersD
ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 10:28 pm
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

I remember Corey Brewer!

Jimmy Butler would be fun to have here. Finally have a team leader Thayer knows how to win.

Gunrock
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July 3, 2024 7:19 pm

Love all the discussion these last few days about the future of the Kings, and appreciate the folks doing the heavy lifting on all of the stats and write-ups–it’s been great! Nice to be back in a place where we are hoping for–expecting–a competitive team in Sac.

I agree with the general theme that it might have been ok to “run it back” last year, coming off of a phenomenal 22-23 run to the playoffs…and also that it would be pretty disappointing if we did the same again this year. We need more out of our forward spots, plain and simple.

Part of that discussion should be centered what we think Murray will be in the next couple of years. The last two years we’ve basically been running out two hybrid forwards in Murray and Barnes–both not quite as quick as the quickest SFs, and not quite as big as the biggest PFs. It worked a lot of the time, but was a terrible matchup with the Pelicans in particular–we had no one big enough for Zion, or athletic enough for BI (and all their other wings). But Murray looks to be a foundational piece–so do you want to get a big guy, and make Murray into the SF? Or get a more athletic guy, and make Murray into the PF? I think in the long run he’s better/more of a matchup advantage as a SF, so my first thought is that the next forward to pair him with should be a bigger/more physical power forward type. 2 years ago I didn’t think Murray would be able to consistently guard SFs, but last year he got so much better on D that I think he can do it.

Upgrading to a more traditional PF might not fully address our need for more athleticism, but might help with a few weaknesses for the Kings, at least as far as my ‘eyeball’ test goes. We have trouble with rim protection. We have trouble closing out stops by securing a rebound. We don’t have great post-up options for when the offense stalls and the 3’s aren’t falling. Theoretically, a PF could address all of these.

With that in mind, when I’m looking at the four “big names” we’re rumored to be chasing–Ingram, Kuzma, Markkanen, and Collins–I’m thinking about who might fit the PF role the best, rather than who is simply the best player. So I’m warming up to the idea of John Collins.

I’d say Ingram is the best of the 4, just from a purely basketball standpoint (I’d rank ’em BI, Mark, Kuz, and JC). But BI is also the most “pure” SF of the group, and at 190 lbs, he’s guarding smaller forwards–you’re definitely looking to Murray to be the PF in that pairing, which I don’t think is the best use for him. It’s also a little bit of a waste of BI’s strengths–he’s a point forward with a good handle and assist rate, but we have guys who do that. BI running the show means Fox/Sabonis having less usage in that area, so it’s a little redundant. He has the lowest rebounding rate and block rate of the 4 (and less than Murray at both), so not helping the ‘power’ categories much in my mind. And it might take a max salary to keep him from being a 1-year rental.

Mark is a true PF, with great size and a better rebounding rate. He’s a great fit on offense, but doesn’t offer much on defense. He’s not a rim protector in my mind (lower block rate than Sabonis), but he is a great athlete and might be expected to be a little more competitive on D on a winning team. He’s also a guy who probably needs a max salary to be more than a one year rental.

Kuz is a little bit of a tweener like Barnes and Murray–6’9, 221# (Barnes 6’8, 225, Murray 6’8, 215). He’s got great skills and can score, and I also think would be a better defender on a better team. He’s a little better rebounder than BI or Murray, but has about the same block rate as BI and Murray. He can get a bucket for you when needed. He’s got a great contract for what we’re looking for (3yr, 23/21/19 declining). He’s a better version of Barnes, with some of the same size limitations.

Collins? He’s not the best player of the 4, but to me he fits the best. He has the size to guard bigger PFs, and is the best rebounder of the bunch (TRB% 16.7%–for comparison, Mark is 13.6, Kuz 10.9, Murray 9.1, BI 8.6). Sabonis top 5 in this category at 21.4–and Barnes a 5.9 (!). (Some help would be nice!) JC the best block rate of the bunch by a good margin–he’s not elite, but 28th in Blk% in the league at 2.9% is not too bad. (For comparison Murray was our best last year at 2.1, and he’s 52nd overall). His 3 Pt shooting took a dip last year but he’s been pretty good in his career and would have to be respected as a corner-3 threat. He’s a little bit of a vertical/lob threat, too. The contract’s not great (2 more yrs at 26M), but not a killer–you get 2 years to look at him/keep him if he’s good, and probably not a max guy to extend if you like him after a year. At worst, a 26M expiring next year if he’s bad. But I don’t think he’s bad–just overpaid.

A couple other notes before closing–Barnes is a bad rebounder for us in general, but as a PF it’s really notable under-production. And no rim protection whatsoever. So almost anyone we get will give us a bump in both categories and would help. As several others have noted, even just putting Lyles in the starting line-up would help–he’d be the clear PF, would let Murray be the SF, and Lyles rebounding% and Blk% aren’t far off of Mark (and better than BI or Kuz) (SSS noted of course). Barnes is still a good player if he’s your bench forward backing up both spots and being a glue guy–just not as your starting PF.

The other note is that Precious Achiuwa, despite being similar size (6’8, 225) as the other tweeners, has a fantastic rebound rate (16.7) and block rate (3.9)–better than Collins in both, actually. Collins clearly the better option on offense though, for scoring, 3pt shooting, FT%–just about everything–so still would be my preference. But PA would be another huge help here, without breaking the bank.

Anyway, my 2 cents! Never thought I’d be stumping for JC but here we are–thought I better own up to it 🙂 Of the big 4, my final ranking (for fit with Kings)–JC, Kuz, LM, BI. (And add Precious while you are at it!) Of course, more likely than any of this is that Monte thinking of something completely different, and is going to surprise us all.

Go Kings!

RobHessing
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July 3, 2024 7:36 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

Respect!

peyroux
July 3, 2024 8:15 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

+1
Achiuwa could be a sleeper option.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 10:36 pm
Reply to  peyroux

Yes, we need to try to get him as a nice packup.

jwalker1395
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July 3, 2024 8:20 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

Agree with pretty much every word. Would throw in Cam Johnson as a nice target.

I believe Markannen is being greatly overrated. He’s a one way player. He’s a perfect fit on O, but he’s a worse fit on defense than every other target, including the ones 4 inches shorter than him. I’ve seen some people suggesting giving up Keegan for him. At best that’s a lateral move, at worst you lose a two way player on a rookie scale deal whose bird rights you own for a one way guy that’s about to command a lot of $$$.

Achiuwa is also simply not a good player. A 3rd string energy big. Fine as a break in case of emergency option, but by no means a starting PF on a contending team.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 10:38 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Collins and Cam Johnson are much better options than LM and Ingram. They will cost us a lot of picks and if they don’t re-sign, Monte will look like really bad and we will damage our future.

DCKing
July 3, 2024 10:39 pm
Reply to  DCKing

Portis would also be the best fit of all.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:22 am
Reply to  DCKing

I respecfully disagree. I looked up Portis vs Collins stats. Collins comes out on top.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 1:38 pm
Reply to  Jack

Just pointing out that the majority of the Jazz fanbase can’t wait to jettison the guy as they believe he is nothing but empty stats at $26M/yr and he is likely to logjam a position where they have a good amount of young players who need floor time.

I don’t know if I’d agree entirely about the empty stats thing, but that has been a knock on him his whole career, decent stats with little to no impact on winning.

I like the idea of just getting a decent fit like Collins on a large contract as it could be used to acquire a better player next year (who is also on a large contract) at a time when Collins’ contract becomes an expiring one.

RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 1:43 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

For me, the attraction to Collins would be the same as Wiggins, in that they should both be buy low candidates. The moment I have to attach anything of value to the deal, I’m out. I would send Huerter and Duarte for either, as that gives the Dubs or Jazz a little salary relief (more so for the Dubs because of their tax situation), an expiring in Duarte and a fair priced reclamation project in Huerter.

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:18 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

The empty stats canard remains tiresome, and is never applied to a player from a team experiencing success.

A player like Collins, who has been on some pretty lousy teams, hasn’t been the best player on any of them, and wouldn’t be on any NBA team by my reckoning. Regardless, he’s pretty good at basketball.

If Utah loses a game 122-120, and Collins scores 24 and gets nine rebounds, are those stats empty? If they win 117-116 with Collins getting 12/7, are those numbers “better” and therefore not empty?

It takes me back to Rajon Rondo’s year in Sacramento. He led the league in assists with nearly twelve per game, and there was grumbling about the stats not meaning much, presumably because the Kings were pretty lousy.

Twelve assists per game translates to a minimum of twenty-four points. Rondo also scored around twelve points a game. That’s a total of at least thirty-six points in each game that had his fingerprints on them in one way or another. On what planet are numbers like that “empty?”

Sometimes a player seems to be deliberately piling up numbers (almost always scoring) and does so in a way that’s detrimental to his team’s chances of winning a given game. Kobe Bryant routinely put up stat lines where he’d score thirty points on twenty-nine shots, usually in a loss.

Collins career numbers are something like fifteen points per game on about eleven shots. That doesn’t feel like someone just getting theirs whether the team wins or not.

Depending on the cost, what Collins does could be very helpful in Sacramento’s efforts to improve. Should it come to pass, I suppose the conventional wisdom will judge the value of his numbers based on the team’s success, with no other context imposed.

Gunrock
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July 5, 2024 10:57 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

Great point about Cam, I like him as well. Haven’t watched Achiuwa much I’ll admit, but his shooting numbers seem to back your assessment 🙂

Adamsite
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July 3, 2024 8:31 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

Great and well thought out post! Give us more!

MichaelMack
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July 3, 2024 9:03 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

That was an excellent read. Well done.

MillersCornrows
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July 3, 2024 10:34 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

Have a rec!

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 10:37 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

I think a true 4 is what this teams to be more competitive. Put on a better show for the fans. It will allow this team to play in a half court offense when it needs to happen. The ball in Fox’s hand without any team play has begun to be the definition of Fox.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 7:15 am
Reply to  Gunrock

Another Hot Take:
Keegan, specifically the growth of Keegan, is the key to the whole she-bang.
And that is a player just 2 years in to his NBA career.

Domas and De’Aaron are known and steady talents. Monk is as well.

If you add John Collins he’s your upgrade from Harrison Barnes to rebound and defend. If he gives you 12-15 ppg, 6-8 rpg, averages around a block – and that is what should be expected, IMO, he also provides room for Keegan growth, because Keegan will have to be that 2nd option on offense (after Fox and at other times, after Monk). Can he be counted on to create on offense at this point in his burgeoning career? Personally, I think he will be better, but not there, yet (if ever).

Kuzma, Markannen, Ingram are all shot creators. Other than the other choices akin to Collins, Portis can create his own offense, Cam Johnson better than JC less than BP.
oh, and DeMar DeRozan, can also self create on offense with the best of these.

If you gamble and go all in one of the 1 yr rental guys – Ingram, Lauri – you really solve a missing factor for Sacramento, finishing games. Last five minute failure rate improves.

Look at the playoffs- where did Indiana stumble and Boston excel – closing time.
Minnesota against a seemingly lesser Maverick squad: Luka/Kyrie won the end of the games for them, AntMan and KAT weren’t the answer.

So, John Collins helps you with talent and overall depth, but BI, LM, Lavine, DeRozan give you another end of the game scorer – unless Keegan becomes that guy this season.

Last edited 1 day ago by UpgradedToQuestionable
Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:20 am

Don’t forget Monk at the end of the game.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 7:23 am

When I watch the Kings play the last five minute failures are almost always Fox dribbling the ball into everyone. That is a Fox problem and a coaching problem.

If there is Jokic, Domas, and Curry on the floor with him he still wouldn’t pass it.

We should all be happy that the last five minutes of the game are competitive. The entertainment factor is there. The good basketball isn’t there.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 7:42 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

Apologies, I replied to myself and not you.

Of course, this new competitive Kings team is a joy and a relief. Winning 46 games was a delight. 47, 48 games and they make the playoffs.

It was just that close. And the margin of error in the tough Western Conf. is tight.

The Kings lost the season (IMO) not just with Detroit/Charlotte/etc. collapses, that was the set up – but when the opportunity to rise to the occasion presented itself in the last ten games – versus Dallas (twice), Phoenix and, sigh, New Orleans, they floundered, fumbled and fell in front of the finish line.

This team is poised to improve, they have many pieces (46 wins) but need to add more if they want to be more.

And Domas, who is amazing, is also not the guy to have the ball in his hands with 12 seconds left unless he’s wide open under basket or rebounding. Not his game.

And adding in reply to your other comment:
John Collins is a PF, but not the PF you describe, IMO. He might be, Keegan more likely is, but I think there are better options. (Lauri Markannen or Bobby Portis is more what came to mind from your desire on the Power Forward front)

Last edited 1 day ago by UpgradedToQuestionable
ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 7:49 am

Domas is never wide open under the basket because there isn’t a power forward to draw defenders away. Guard Fox and Sabonis. That is scouting report for the Kings.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 8:09 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

by the way – I am enjoying this discussion and I am glad you are contributing to the community.

And Happy July 4th!

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 11:30 am

Same here.

Have a fun day celebrating!

Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:01 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

Collins can shoot the 3 and a good stretch 4.

RikSmits
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July 4, 2024 10:42 am
Reply to  Jack

Yup.
I am quite into Collins, of all the options still out there.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 11:31 am
Reply to  Jack

I think we need a true 4. Barnes is a stretch four. Keegan is a stretch four.

We need to try something real instead of make do with what we have.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 9:59 am

You aren’t going to get Lauri unless you give up the ship. IMO not worth it. Collins has better stats than Portis and easier to get. He is as close to the best fit along side Sabonis. He would be fourth or fifth option. Doesn’t have to be more as what he would contribute to the starting 5 ( rebounding and rim especially weakside rim protection ) and he still can shoot the 3 and he can attack the paint. What more would you want. And he probably won’t cost you a first.

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 5:29 pm
Reply to  Jack

Monte would still need to complete a fair trade with D Ainge, and I’m not convinced that is at all possible.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 7:29 am

To add to that thought:
Who do you want to have the ball tied or down by one, with 12! seconds left:

De’Aaron Fox! But everyone knows that, and he’s being doubled (or maybe he’s injured)-

Ok – give it to Malik Monk? Sorry, I like KIA (King In Arabic) but I dislike watching him run the 4 flat. It made me mad at Mike Brown. He is not the answer.

The Kings need another Get it to ___ (not just Fox, and not Malik Monk, and maybe Keegan) player. Fox is the guy now because he is far and away the best option – claiming he wouldn’t pass it to Anyone else is unfair. He doesn’t have that option now.

John Collins ain’t that guy.

Last edited 1 day ago by UpgradedToQuestionable
ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 7:39 am

Get it to Sabonis or the new power forward. A true power forward opens the game up. As it stands now everyone knows Fox will try win alone and dribble into the crowd or take a three which he statistically cannot make. Crowd the paint to keep Fox out of the paint and eliminate Sabonis. Easy to defend.

With a real power forward that has a decent jumper they will spread the defense out a bit and Sabonis won’t be double teamed every play. Fox can now drive into less people, pass to Sabonis easier, or pass it to the new power forward that has curled out to the elbow or the block.

Either way relies on Fox moving the ball instead of Fox vs. 5.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 8:02 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

We see De’Aaron differently.

I believe that he IS the primary option (and I will toss that Jerry West Mr. Clutch Award on the table) but watching the team, and maybe this is a Mike Brown problem, I don’t see a whole bunch of options for him.

And as far as him Tyreke Evans-ing into traffic – not so much, not any less than Anthony Edwards, Kyrie and I’ll throw Zion and Giannis in there among others. And his success rate against those difficult odds is as good or better than most (that’s why he got awarded).

To counter that two point prayer, he worked on his 3 point threat game this season – with success, which at times was excruciatingly excessive with whelming results (not over or underwhelming, just whelmig). He’s not Dame Lillard or Paul George and nobody but nobody is Luka or Steph – but he’s closer to Jaylen, Kawhi, Harden than he was two seasons ago. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

All I am hearing is that the guy needs help. Another Go To teammate. Monk? (It sure isn’t, unfortunately, Kevin Huerter) Well, ok, I guess. But I like those other options we’re considering better (but not John Collins- he is Harrison Barnes 2.0 in that respect)

Last edited 1 day ago by UpgradedToQuestionable
Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:06 am

None of those. Keegan Murray. Thisyear IMO is his ready to rock year. Give him a chance.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 11:29 am

I see your point and respect your perspective. Fox is and has been the primary option. They don’t win with him in that role. He is entertaining and it creates a fervor when he is clutch. That isn’t winning basketball. It is entertaining basketball.

This ownership and front office is creating entertainment.

Adamsite
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July 4, 2024 9:14 am

John Collins isn’t supposed to be “that guy”. He’s your 4th option, or even 5th option, in that kind of circumstance. If Collins is on the court then, he’s out there with Fox, Malik, Keegan and Sabonis. He’s a floor spreading, rim running big that makes the sum greater than their parts kind of guy who helps you throughout the game.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 9:41 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Agreed.

IMHO, that’s nice. But if the goal is to be greater, not gooder, than he’s a side dish (broccoli, eat your greens) and the Kings need another entree option.

He doesn’t replace Harrison Barnes, he enhances the PF spot. If HB40 is a 5/10, John Collins is a 6. if they acquire Collins, I sure hope it’s for Heurter. They’ll still need Barnes.

Just my opinion.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:12 am

IMO I would give him a 7. I sure hope it isn’t Huerter. I want to save him for a trade for Isaiah Stewart. Pistons need shooters not a backup PF.

Adamsite
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July 4, 2024 10:21 am

I agree. I’d much prefer to keep Barnes as the 3/4 backup, but that also great enhances the bench. Thus, sum is greater than the parts when you take into consideration the full rotation. Currently the backup 3/4 is McDaniels…yikes.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:09 am
Reply to  Adamsite

You and I are on the same page. With 3 or 4 minutes he might possibly not be on the court. If he is what Monty thinks he is it just might be Carter. Who knows?

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:23 am
Reply to  Adamsite

This right here. He still needs to be covered away from the basket, and if left alone, it’s tough to object to him taking a shot on a clean look.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:03 am

Doesn’t have to be. Fox first, Monk second and Murray third. Don’t need anyone else.

murraytant
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July 4, 2024 5:09 pm

yep

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 5:01 pm

Collins may not take as many shots from Keegan as some of the others under consideration.

murraytant
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July 4, 2024 5:07 pm

I do believe that the Kings need another guy who can go out and get a bucket. Late in shot clock or stagnant part of game- just go get one.

DeMar can do that but he is a SG. BI and Kuzma can do that. LM to some extent but not quite as good. Collins ? nope.
Opponents have to guard BI, LM and Kuzma (unless he is just bricking it). They can lay off Collins.
Keon needs that cover- 4 guys who have to be guarded. That is why he suffered with HB

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:20 am

To protect the delicate sensibilities crowd, please stop hyphenating “shebang.”

Gunrock
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July 5, 2024 10:55 am

I think this is correct–JC works great as a PF, but only with the mind-set that Keegan is taking the leap as your 3rd option. JC isn’t that guy.

It has been a small source of frustration for me actually–for all of Keegan’s growth as a shooter, defender, rebounder (marginally), we haven’t really seen much from him as a post-up player. He was an effective post scorer in college and should be able to get his shot against many SFs in the post, but we haven’t seen it much. I know, I’m just greedy at this point 🙂

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:17 am
Reply to  Gunrock

I would put Isaiah Stewart ahead of Precious. Great motor and can score as well as defend.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 1:44 pm
Reply to  Jack

I like Stew much more than Precious, not that I dislike PA at all, just like Stew a lot.

But if Precious ever joins the Kings, his nickname has to be “Push” right?

49taylaners
July 4, 2024 8:14 am
Reply to  Gunrock

I wanted Issacs, but lost him. Another name to consider would be Julius Randle. He’s another scorer, rebounder, but most importantly, he would be our “dawg” to match up with the more physical teams. Like the Villanova Knicks, lets bring in the Kentucky Kings….

Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:14 am
Reply to  49taylaners

Would cost too much and IMO a ball hog. Murray might get 2 or 3 shots in the game. Not worth it. Sorry.

DCKing
July 4, 2024 2:26 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

This was a great post– you nailed it and align with me a ton. I said many times on these threads that John Collins, although not the best player, is the best fit next to Sabonis. Portis is around the same fit. Cam Johnson and Randle aren’t too bad. Zach Collins is ok.

Precious Achiuwa is a great, lower cost option and you pointed out his strengths. These are the thoughts of a good GM. I think Monte is not as practical or smart as he thinks he is and is running down a rabbit hole to get the best player– BI and LR. They are pricey players that could cost us in the future and are arguably a waste of our time, being that we do not spend like the Lakers or Celtics.

Monte, please read this post and the one above for some guidance. These are examples of two moves that would make us better and give us financial optimism in the future. Get it done!!

DCKing
July 4, 2024 2:30 pm
Reply to  DCKing

Stewart is not a bad option as well.

Gunrock
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July 5, 2024 10:48 am
Reply to  DCKing

+1. I always forget about Zach Collins but he always seems to crush us when we play him. Another guy that you would hope to get at a good value. He has holes in his game but his size, rebounding, and rim protection would help us. Not a great 3 point shooter but if you squint you could see him become “good enough” (34% on 2 attempts per game for his career)

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 4:57 pm
Reply to  Gunrock

Great post! And I agree, mostly, but I don’t think your giving Markkanen enough credit, especially defensively. He’s head and shoulders the best talent of the four, especially for the Kings. I suspect he may match this roster as well defensively, as on offense. He can protect the rim from the weak side, but, I suspect we haven’t seen it mostly because he’s been playing next to better shot-blockers, or playing as the primary rim protector at the 5. And I agree that BI brings a lot of the same talents as Barnes and Murray. This team needs more size and length. I also like the way you broke down J Collins’ fit in Sac. I totally agree that he could really fit well, but I think MM would question his overall impact. I think Collins may be as, or maybe even more productive than BI, and fit the salary structure better, especially when it comes time to re-up his contract. While he doesn’t add elite size, length, or possess the skills of BI, or even KK, his athleticism would bring a sorely missing ingredient.

Gunrock
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July 5, 2024 10:40 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Fair points all–Markkanen is very talented, and would help our athleticism as well. In a vacuum, he’s the better player. At his price point–I think JC is “better bang for your buck.” I’d be thrilled to get either one!

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 9:53 am
Reply to  Gunrock

So many well-thought-out and explained points here. I’ve been pretty meh about Collins, but with the context you’ve provided, he could make a lot of sense, depending on the price. If Collins can be had while keeping Murray and first-round picks, it becomes a reasonably low-risk proposition.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 3, 2024 9:28 pm

The Drive Guys had a stream earlier where they were joined by Tony Jones (Jazz beat reporter for The Athletic).

The Kings apparently have a tangible offer on the table for Lauri that does not include Keegan. The Utah guy made it sound like it was close to 4 unprotected 1st and 3 pick swaps, and likely still not enough from Ainge’s POV.

MidtownMike
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July 4, 2024 12:27 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

That’s pretty bananas unless they know they could resign him…

Hobby916
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July 4, 2024 4:43 am
Reply to  MidtownMike

Especially for a guy that has never eclipsed the 70 games played mark. He misses as much time as Ingram. So re-signing him is a risk too.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:26 am
Reply to  MidtownMike

IMO 4 firsts is way too high and deplets our draft stock completely.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 7:32 am
Reply to  Jack

Our draft stock in Sacramento has built what we have now.

Maybe it is part of the ownership groups marketing plan?

Always rotate cheap new faces through to pique fans interest. The draft has a different purpose for the Kings. If they were trying to win it would be different. Not as much during the draft.

Adamsite
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July 4, 2024 7:18 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Very hard pass, especially if their is no guaranteed contract extension from Lauri.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 1:51 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I think that might the holdup, I’ve heard that Lauri’s agent really wants to see what his value is as a UFA so they’re telling everyone they won’t sign an extension.

The price for his services is crazy high and seems to be a waste of assets despite how good he might be here. I’d pass too if that is the cost of doing business with Ainge.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:16 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

In that case I would’t do that’

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:25 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Pass. Markkannen is a sieve on defense. There may be guys out there worth four first-rounders, but LM ain’t one of them, and isn’t particularly close to being one.

SelecaoKOJ
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July 3, 2024 10:09 pm

Monte has probably done the best he could considering the ownership group.

Sure Davion was a poor pick. When Seguin would have been a lifetime 4 for the Kings.

Duarte regressed. Huerter was exposed in the playoffs 2 years ago. Barnes aged quickly.

Trial and Error. Some self inflicted some Kangz type luck.
Players look better on other teams. Then join the Kings and regress. It’s par for the course.

Not entirely sure on Vivek’s commitment to winning Kings basketball is either. Now with his hands in baseball and soccer. is this Vivek’s number one priority or just another toy in the toy box?

Going well into the luxury tax is standard for most consistent winning organizations.

Not sure if agents and players steer clear from Sac due to this facets of ownership.

Does anyone know?

Building consistent perennial playoff teams. it can encompass one, some or all of these: taking risks, joining a team with a rich history of winning Heat, Spurs, Celtics, or building slow and with a purpose like the Grizz and Spurs through the draft.

The front ownership seems comfortable with the core idea of Fox, Sabonis and Murray.

When healthy. Certainly a viable playoff team.
Championship aspirations. Not so sure.

Sure if Keegan morphs into more Kawhi than Tobias. If Sabonis hired Brooke Lopez’s shooting coach from 2-3 years ago.

A second round playoff seems possible.
After 16 dismal years. It’s certainly more welcome to have a consistent winner.

I am certainly in the minority but this team adds a BI, even overpaid Lavine or tainted 3 level scorer Bridges. This team can get to a WCF. Even if that means moving Keegan. Worry about the salary cap later. Winning always seems to rectify that.

Kings will alway have to overpay for high talent and take risks to get to the next level. If they are not willing to run business like The Griz or Spurs.
Teams consistently drafting well,
rebuilding slowly and solidifying consistent winning cultures in small
markets.

ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 10:42 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

We can watch this team lose with Keegan now. If he goes and Ingram wins that is great. If he goes and Ingram is not the answer we will still watch this team lose.

Sacto_J
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July 4, 2024 9:39 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

I tend to agree with you about salary cap concerns. There hasn’t been an NBA champion under the salary cap since TD was on his rookie contract. And the NBA is a different animal now days, money-wise. When a team has a window where you are a maybe one “good” to “all-star” player away, you find the right one and get it done, salary cap be-damned. Nuggets, Warriors, Celtics, Bucks, all went and got that last piece to their puzzle a year before they won it all. It takes talent to win and talent costs money. Its as simple as that.

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 4:33 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

While I’m sure Vivek can be very cheap, I don’t get the feeling, at all, that Monte wants to spend more than he’s allowed. Also, I like allowing this roster to “top-out.” The failures provide actionable data. Once they pierce the 2nd apron, the clock starts ticking on repercussions. People talk about the “Denver model,” I like the Raptor model. Keep building incrementally, then strike with the type of guy you know won’t stay, but you have a window.

BuiltToSpill
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July 5, 2024 1:41 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

“Players look better on other teams. Then join the Kings and regress. It’s par for the course.”

This is the opposite of purple-colored glasses. As a longtime Kings fan, I understand the little brother mentality up to a point. But can we not look at Sabonis and Monk as arguments to the contrary here? I’m not accepting a statement like the one above at face value without a counterpoint, sorry.

Last edited 8 hours ago by BuiltToSpill
RikSmits
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July 3, 2024 10:46 pm

Goodbye message from Davion.
Good dude.
Rooting for him and Sasha to find a spot.

https://x.com/instantkings/status/1808637237632119138


ShaneKC
July 3, 2024 11:14 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I think Sasha just wants to go home and play basketball there. Hopefully they can figure that out.

Davion might make another roster?

I hope he has been saving his money.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 12:16 am
Reply to  RikSmits

TOR got a good PG in that deal to back up Quickley. Davion needed an opportunity to have the ball in his hands and it wasn’t going to be here.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 7:13 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I have seen Davion play in San Francisco, LA, Utah, Portland, Indiana, and Denver. He didn’t score in those places either.

I wonder if Canada is different for him?

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:30 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Davion Mitchell is one class act. Wish him the best. GO DAVION!

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:29 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Class act, and his effort was never in question. Davion works as hard as anyone.

His ability to anticipate on defense was abut as good as anyone I’ve ever watched, and the way he could go from full-speed to a dead stop to stay with his man was unreal.

I hope he finds his shot in Toronto.

SmallBallReject
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July 4, 2024 3:10 am

Besides the caveats about Markannen’s net benefit (great 0/bad D) the price for potentially a one-year rental is getting too high. If the reported (rejected by Ainge) multiple firsts is true and more teams than Kings, Dubs and Spurs are bidding, it will be a crippling transaction for whoever gets him, especially the Kings.

Adamsite
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July 4, 2024 7:17 am

Spurs have the draft assets to make it happen and Lauri would work really well next to Wemby.

CP3, Vassell, Sochan, Lauri, and Wemby is a damn fine starting 5.

I think the question that many of us are failing to ask is why does Ainge have Lauri on the block, when they have the ability to give him a contract extension and he’s clearly their best player.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 7:27 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Ainge exists to build a winning team. He will take risks and change what needs to be changed. His players are not toys he holds on to for life. His players are interchangeable pieces of a group clearly trying to win.

Kings players are forever Kings good or bad.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 7:32 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

I’ll take that.

RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 8:44 am
Reply to  ShaneKC

Yet…

McNair traded an absolutely beloved player (Haliburton), and has sold picks to jettison players that he himself signed / drafted (Holmes, Mitchell, Vezenkov).

So while players may be forever Kings in the eyes of the fans (including the likes of Okpala and McGee, I suppose?), GM’s Ainge and McNair view them appropriately and similarly: as roster pieces.

HongKongKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 8:50 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Back to the Hali trade….
As Woj said, the league did not know Tyrese is available….

Why Monte not secretly ask other teams what their offers would be for Tyrese ? Maybe Monte can have a even better return for Tyrese ?

RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 9:02 am

I think he got his man. I don’t know who among the other top 30 players would have been (a) better, (b) a better fit with Fox, (c) a better contractual fit (enabling the Kings to get out of the Hield contract.

And what we do know is that the more “secret” discussions that you have, the more the word gets out. My guess is that he took a surgical approach to offering out both Fox and Hali and wound up taking the deal he liked the most.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 10:07 am
Reply to  RobHessing

My basketball fantasy mind dreams of a team with Domas AND Hali – their styles seem so complementary.

But maybe their similarities would expose worse deficiencies.

We know that Fox and Hali wasn’t Dame and CJ, or Jaylen and Jayson, or West and Goodrich, etc.

What if
What if
What if

TheGrantNapear
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July 4, 2024 10:11 am

My basketball fantasy mind dreams of a team with Domas AND Hali – their styles seem so complementary.

Fox’ value had cratered at that time. Didn’t seem like teams were interested in trading for him. Perhaps if MM waited until the following season and Fox increased his value, a Fox for Domas trade may have been on the table. Certainly a big what if in King’s history.

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:44 am

Yeah, translation :Woj didn’t know Haliburton was available.

The guy is such a prima donna, and is used to basketball people giving him whatever he wants. No matter which team I root for, I’d hope the General Manager would never speak to Woj or Shams directly.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 10:19 am
Reply to  RobHessing

This whole thing is a business. Period.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 11:37 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Ainge definitely does. It is yet to be seen what McNair does. He treaded one player. Ainge has gone through entire rosters multiple times to build a winner. McNair has yet to churn through a mediocre roster.

Last edited 1 day ago by ShaneKC
RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 12:22 pm
Reply to  ShaneKC

McNair has turned over the entire roster. The only players that he inherited (Fox and Barnes) he re-signed.

McNair is two and a half months shy of being here for four years. Here is the list of forever Kings that have been on the roster in that time, noting that at least a couple more will be added to the list before this season starts:
Fox*
Barnes*
Bagley*
Bjelica*
Deonte Burton
Terence Davis
Delladova
DiVincenzo
Duarte
Edwards
Ellis
Jordan Ford
Kyle Guy*
Haliburton
Mo Harkless
Hield*
Justin Holiday
Holmes*
Huerter
Josh Jackson
Justin James*
DaQuan Jeffries*
Colby Jones
Damian Jones
Mason Jones
Cory Joseph*
Louie King
Jeremy Lamb
Len*
Lyles
McDaniels
McGee
Metu
Mitchell
Chima Moneke
Monk
Mudiay
Murray
Okpala
Jabari Parker*
Novelle Pelle
Petrusev
Queta
Jahmius Ramsey
Glenn Robinson III
Justin Robinson
Sabonis
Chris Silva
Tristan Thompson
Toscano-Anderson
Vezenkov
Whiteside
Robert Woodard II
Delon Wright

*Inherited from 19-20 roster

By my count, that is 54 players (and counting) in four years, when a roster basically has 15 spots. So that is almost a full roster turn every year. I list this not as an indictment of McNair, but to show that he is like every other GM in the NBA when it comes to “forever (insert team name here).”

Fans may have their forever Kings, but front offices look at it coldly and dispassionately, as they should. In that regard, McNair is no different than Ainge, thankfully.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 1:25 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

They did not make the playoffs in his first year. He got rid of Haliburton to get Sabonis. Haliburton was not a core player at that point. He built a core of Sabonis, Fox, and Murray. This core has never won. He has not changed it.

Every year the core of this team is the same.

Most recently Sasha and Davion were rightfully jettisoned. They got nothing in return. Sasha was a failure and a good dump. Davion was a a failure that lasted far too long.

It is an entertaining team that dangled the Euro league MVP and the inevitable rise of Davion for the fans. Change the core of this team if they truly do want to win. The roster changes have bee superficial at best.

RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 1:26 pm
Reply to  ShaneKC

Okie dokie.

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 2:23 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Today is what matters if they want win. They are entertainment at this point.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 2:40 pm
Reply to  ShaneKC

the entire NBA exists as entertainment…

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 2:49 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

That is entirely true. About one third of the teams are actually going for a title.

Last edited 1 day ago by ShaneKC
RikSmits
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July 4, 2024 7:28 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I think some other teams are better and/or faster in assessing whether their key players are capable of making their team a contender, willing to cut bait when their value is still relatively high, and not afraid to reste or rebuild.

It could very well be that Ainge sees Lauri as a good floor raiser, but not someone that can carry a team to reach its peak. There are similar questions to be asked about Fox & Ox.

Adamsite
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July 4, 2024 7:36 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Totally agree, which is why I wouldn’t sell the farm for Lauri.

RikSmits
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July 4, 2024 7:52 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah.

And that’s why players such as Wemby and Bam allow you so much flexibility to add players such as Lauri, because you can cover for a big chunk of their weaknesses.

Gobert too, to an extent, but he has a glaring weakness of his own that needs covering.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 4, 2024 10:01 am
Reply to  Adamsite

yes – it is a fine curiosity.

Is he a bit drunk on rebuilding? I had thought Sam Presti on that bender – always fidgeting pieces of the puzzle like a blogger (guilty as charged!) but never completing the picture, but darn if those Baby Thunder didn’t click into place this season with a #1 seed and a 2nd round finish. And on the backs of one All-Star (superstar?), a rookie, a super Soph and, and, and…Lu Dort?

Why not pay your All-Star, your face of the franchise and build around him as a keystone. You haven’t hit the playoffs with him, like Shai, but he seems a fine Finn. He’s got to be a fan fave in Salt Lake. He puts butts in the seats.

It’s perplexing, I’ll give you that. But, Ainge wants to shake it up, let Sac catch the falling fruit. But not for Rudy Gobert, Donovan Mitchell level capital. And not Keegan Murray.

DCKing
July 4, 2024 2:15 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

100% Agreed!!! I think this was quite an obvious question for Monte and other smart GMs.. Ainge might want stupid teams to dangle picks and young talent at him because he’s probably a bit arrogant, despite being the best GM. I think Princeton Monte is a bit arrogant, but is an average GM. Utah can very easily sign him for 30+ million and assemble one of the best up and coming teams in a year or so. If it does not work out, someone will still trade a ton for LM. The Warriors and the Kings have been dumb to get caught up in this silly bidding war– both teams could have been making for sensible trades (not to say that I wouldn’t entertain Moody/Wiggins (doubt we could get more from them) for Barnes/Heurter). We have made headlines for LM and BI trade rumors, but I think we look dumb getting involved in such an “out of reach” set of player. Be smarter Monte, get a clue.

TheGrantNapear
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July 4, 2024 9:19 am

Yahoo reporting that the Kings nearly pulled off a trade for Lauri.
Monte “Can’t Close a Deal” McNair strikes again.
Given the cost was probablly three or four unprotected picks and pick swaps on top of that, I’m glad MM couldn’t close the deal.
Trade for Collins or Portis without giving up a first and call it a day, that or sign Bridges.
Keep the powder dry for the trade deadline.
My .02 cents.

DCKing
July 4, 2024 2:08 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

100% agreed! I have been saying that John Collins and Portis are the best fits, so try harder there. Then Cam Johnson and Randle are next for various reasons. Then, Zach Collins is next. He would be followed by other guys like, Prrecious Achiuwa. These guys can make an impact and won’t damage future draft capital or money, This is obvious GM knowledge– go do something Monte before you look bad to the Kings fans and the league!

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:48 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

So McNair can’t close a deal that you’re glad that he couldn’t close? Likely because Ainge’s price was beyond ridiculous?

Pick a lane.

RikSmits
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July 4, 2024 10:39 am

The New York Knicks are now $16.9 million below the $188.9 million second apron with 11 players.

They have enough flexibility to re-sign Precious Achiuwa and use the $5.2 million taxpayer mid-level exception.

https://x.com/YossiGozlan/status/1808900196585328658

Another domino is about to fall.
Monte’s options seem to be shrinking by the day. Who would have thought?

Adamsite
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July 4, 2024 11:13 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I’m really not sure if there are any dominos left in free agency. Okoro (RFA)? Fontecchio? Are there any legit starters left who can play the wing or next to Domas?

RikSmits
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July 4, 2024 11:43 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Not even starters, but so few players that can strengthen and/or balance the rotation, it seems.

Last edited 1 day ago by RikSmits
TheGrantNapear
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July 4, 2024 12:13 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

We completely flamed out with the FA market, pretty wild for a bench that needs massive improvement.

MidtownMike
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July 4, 2024 1:34 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I think they are missing out because they want to use the mle as a trade exception

MidtownMike
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July 4, 2024 1:30 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Saddiq bey one of the best left. Slide murray to the 4

RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 1:34 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

Remember, though, Bey had ACL surgery in March. His projected return (to be able to practice) is no earlier in November and as late as March, at which point you are trying to integrate him during the season. And all of this is if his recovery is complete and on schedule.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 1:42 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

IMO he is good enough to use our BAE on him. Still young.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 2:13 pm
Reply to  Jack

He is young enough that he might figure it out but for a supposed shooter, he doesn’t shoot very well.

He is a career 35% 3pt shooter, he shot less than 32% last year on nearly 6 attempts/gm. He did shoot 40% the year before on 5 attempts/gm, but it seems more like an outlier than anything else.

He is likely to miss the entire year rehabbing from the ACL.

RobHessing
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July 4, 2024 2:46 pm
Reply to  Jack

Probably not what he wants, though.

Two schools of thought: His rehab is going well, in which case he declines a BAE, waits and plays the market once he is healthy. He signs a minimum deal for the rest of the season with a team that needs him as a core piece, and he gets to showcase himself for next off season. Or…

His rehab is not going well, in which case he is more open to signing a BAE, but he can’t pass the team physical.

MidtownMike
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July 4, 2024 5:36 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

That’s why you can get him fairly cheap, show him some love and resign him

Jack
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July 4, 2024 1:41 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

Bey is injured with a ACL tear, Won’t be back until maybe Dec,or Jan. IMO he is good and would use our BAE on him.

murraytant
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July 4, 2024 5:15 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

Bey might be cheap due to the injury
and C. Martin out there and Beasly I think

Jack
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July 4, 2024 6:33 pm
Reply to  murraytant

I lke Caleb Marti for MLE.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 2:49 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Caleb Martin.

DC1102
July 4, 2024 1:58 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Haha, Monte seems to have no concept of time. Move on from the big trades and make some damn smaller ones. He screwed up at the trade deadline and will look really with crap FA signings and no trade. He’s looking like one of middle to below GMs– this is scary.

andy_sims
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July 5, 2024 10:50 am
Reply to  DC1102

What deal should McNair have accepted at the trade deadline that would have improved last season’s team?

Right, the one that he screwed up.

DCKing
July 4, 2024 2:03 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Agreed, he came up short at the trade deadline and is losing a lot of time. We will look pathetic with no major FA signings (Monk was announced last week before the market opened up) and not trades. He will be known as an average to below average GM if he is not careful.

Last edited 1 day ago by DCKing
Klam
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July 4, 2024 11:50 am

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1808932735819657226

ESPN Sources: Free agent Buddy Hield is joining Golden State on a sign-and-trade deal guaranteed for two years and $21 million. Hield gets $18M in first two years, a $3M partial guarantee in 3rd year and player option on non-guaranteed 4th year. Warriors send Sixers 2031 second via Dallas.

TheGrantNapear
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July 4, 2024 12:07 pm
Reply to  Klam

Lol, desperate times call for desperate measures.
Good chance the duds, lakers and clips don’t make the playoffs next year.

Hobby916
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July 4, 2024 12:17 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Warriors fans acting like turning CP3 and Klay in to Melton, Hield, Slo Mo is some kind of profound move by the GM that sets them up for another title run…

TheGrantNapear
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July 4, 2024 12:28 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Exactly. Klay had dropped off massively, Steph is 36 year’s old, the drop off is imminent and can happen quickly at which point the duds are back to being irrelevant.

SavageBeast
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July 4, 2024 12:29 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Defense? We don’t need no stinking defense.

TheGrantNapear
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July 4, 2024 12:12 pm

Stein reporting that Pels have “intensified” efforts to move BI.

Guessing nothing comes about for the Kings and he is traded elsewhere.

Jack
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July 4, 2024 1:23 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I would’t mind Ingram IF Monty and Ingram’s agent can work our a successful extension. Say 200mil for 5 years.

Nemanja_Business
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July 4, 2024 8:51 pm
Reply to  Jack

Nor mortgage the farm for him either

HongKongKingsFan
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July 4, 2024 9:24 pm
Reply to  Jack

That’s would be the most ideal outcome.

lock Ingram to a reasonable contract for a few more years.

and we got our All-Star SF for a longer period.

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 5:28 pm

In general, I don’t like the idea of attempting to pry a star caliber player from any competitor in the west. Why would they consummate an even trade with Sac? Why should they? And if I’m shipping good players back in return, then I want them heading to the eastern corridor. At least Utah is tanking, but NO could end up trading away their advantage over Sac. Why would they ever possibly consider doing a fair deal with Monte? It doesn’t seem serious to me. Monte’s interest must be exploratory in nature. Unless they get desperate, which means up against the trade deadline. What good is that? On an expiring contract?!?!!! BI just makes no sense to me.

MichaelMack
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July 4, 2024 5:40 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

To tag along with this, and I think your logic is good, there is no reason for Ainge to make any decisions on Lauri imminently. He has until August to extend him, why wouldn’t Ainge wait all month to see what offers come in? He can see if he can get a Godfather offer, and if not, extend him and he is still a fantastic asset because he is under contract.

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 6:28 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

He may actually be more valuable once he signs I’d rather give a Mikal Bridges package for him with 4 or 5 years signed, than give 3 1st rounders for a one year rental.

Jack
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July 5, 2024 6:34 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

For 3 rounders along with Barnes and Huerter really deplets you trading chips but if you think it’s worth it and are willing to take that chance( injuries and all) and you can get a good extention then go for it. IMO I would’t but rather go after someone like Kuzma ( look at his stats) and isn’t injury prone and has a declining contract. I also because of his increased assists looks like he is becoming a team player. All positives. Also rebounds better than Ingram which we really need. He has also increased his defensive stats.

Hamlet1989
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July 4, 2024 7:28 pm

I’m warming to DeMar DeRozen as long as he can play small forward, and I think he can. He’s a culture-setter, fantastic clutch scorer, gets to the line and makes free throws, athletic, and not-too-expensive. He brings Iguodala-like cache, NBA players respect him, coaches trust him, refs defer, and he’s a Cali guy. His money wouldn’t jeopardize future contracts. I think the 4 spot maximizes Keegan’s current skillset. He might be just right..

SmallBallReject
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July 5, 2024 1:27 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Yes, to all of that but also 34 (athletic…?) so if, it better be a short and or declining contract.

Jack
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July 5, 2024 6:13 am

Wouldn’t do that just because of age.After reading a short take from the bleacher report on Kuzma IMO he might be the one we need and should go after. Decreased really good contract but also the article said increased in assists tells me he just isn’t a shooter any more but a team player. That means alot. If not Kuzma then John Collins. We really don’t need no Lauri or Brandon( way to much to get them) to move up the ladder.

RikSmits
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July 5, 2024 6:33 am
Reply to  Jack

The assist percentage for Kuzma is nice, but passsing isn’t really a weakness that needs to be addressed urgently.

Collins has a better TS%, a better rebounding %, a better block %, a much higer FT rate, a higer steal %, and higher WS.

People really don’t understand how ineffective a shooter Kzma is for a forward. One of the reasons that he “can get his shot off” is because teams are happy to let him. His stupid fadeaways early in the shotclock are a shot that you live with every day, and 20 times on Sunday. And his stupid fadeaways are why he rarely gets to the line. He only seaks contact when he can go downhill on a fastbreak, otherwise he is allergic to it.

Jack
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July 5, 2024 6:44 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Just for what it’s worth I prefer Collins than Kuzma in all the areas you mentioned. What surprises me is no one talks about Collins much. Some do but not like Markannen, Ingram or Kuzma. Just curious why. He in my opinion is the best fit next to Sabonis for all the reasons you mentioned above. IMO Monty should go after him right now and don’t play games or we might lose him. We can probably get him without using a first rounder.

RikSmits
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July 5, 2024 6:50 am
Reply to  Jack

What i secretly hope is that suddenly a deal gets announced out of left field about a trade regarding a good player with great fit we have not even considered, just like the Domas deal.

And at a reasonable price.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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July 5, 2024 8:32 am
Reply to  RikSmits

We are all there with you RikSmits!
comment image

RowJimmy
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July 4, 2024 7:37 pm

Don’t Panic…but… if days become weeks and months and we still haven’t seen any moves, then I’ll be right there with you busting out my trusty old pitchfork and torch outside Golden 1

ShaneKC
July 4, 2024 11:58 pm

Markannen or Ingram move the needle. Everyone else is simply changing the name on the back of the jersey to say something happened.

So glad this team is here to talk about.

Last edited 22 hours ago by ShaneKC

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