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Season Review: Marvin Bagley III

Another injury-riddled season leaves Bagley's future with the Kings in doubt.

Coming into the 2020-21 season, there was perhaps no bigger question than how Marvin Bagley III would respond after a disappointing and injury-riddled sophomore season.  It was clear early on that the Kings were going to give him every opportunity they could, even inserting him into the starting lineup from Day 1.  Unfortunately for both Bagley and the Kings, his season left more questions than answers.

Bagley once again missed a significant chunk of time, playing just 43 of the team's 72 games.  After suffering a broken hand midway through the season, Bagley proceeded to miss the next month and a half, and in a curious move that still hasn't been made clear, decided to rehab away from the team back home in Arizona.  Reports seemed to indicate that the Kings were preparing to potentially move on from Bagley, with one rumor suggesting that the Detroit Pistons rejected a straight up swap of Bagley for rookie Saddiq Bey.

After the trade deadline came and went, it was unclear if Bagley would ever return to the lineup, but return he did, playing six games in early May.  These six games included perhaps his best performance yet, a 31 point, 12 rebound game against the Indiana Pacers in which he dominated the 1st half.

That performance was followed up by a 4 point and 2 rebound dud against the Spurs in a must-win game however, and in his next game, he suffered a groin injury that knocked him out for the final four games of the season.

Even without focusing on the various injuries, Bagley didn't show enough improvement this season to warrant a whole lot of optimism.  His statistics from this season are nearly identical to his rookie year:

2018-19: 14.9 PTS, .504 FG%, .313 3P%, 7.6 REB, 1.0 AST, 0.5 STL, 1.0 BLK in 25.3 MPG

2020-21: 14.1 PTS, .504 FG%, .343 3P%, 7.4 REB, 1.0 AST, 0.5 STL, 0.5 BLK in 25.9 MPG

The one area where Bagley did seem to have noticeably improved was with his three point shot, especially from the corner.  But other parts of his game seemed to drop off.  His touch near the basket, left a lot to be desired.  Per basketball-reference, he shot just 38.3% from the field between 3-10 feet.  Compare that to the ultra efficient Richaun Holmes, who made 55.2% of his attempts in that range.

Defensively, Bagley continued to be one of the worst defenders in the entire league.  Sacramento's league worst defense was even worse when Bagley was on the floor.  Per NBA.com, opposing players shot 2.7% better when guarded by Bagley.  It's hard to dump too hard on Bagley for this though.  The Kings as a whole were a nightmare on defense, and that's not on any one individual player.

It's possible, maybe even probable, that Marvin Bagley III has played his last game in a Sacramento Kings uniform.  It seems clear that both sides want a fresh start, and Bagley will be on the books for $11.3 million next season that the Kings would probably want to allocate elsewhere.

Personally, I believe moving on from Marvin Bagley would be the right choice for all parties.  For the Kings, getting out of his salary might allow them to retain a player like Richaun Holmes.  For Bagley, the weight of "2nd pick" and "should have picked Luka" will be off his shoulders, at least partly.  Would it suck to see him flourish elsewhere? Sure.  But will he? History hasn't been kind to top picks that failed to get it going in their first few seasons.  Here's every top-10 pick from the last 15 years who was traded away or let go by their former team before their rookie contract was over:

  • Adam Morrison (2006 Pick No. 3)
  • Tyrus Thomas (2006 Pick No. 4)
  • Shelden Williams (2006 Pick No. 5)
  • Randy Foye (2006 Pick No. 7)
  • Patrick O'Bryant (2006 Pick No. 9)
  • Mouhamed Sene (2006 Pick No. 10)
  • Greg Oden (2007 Pick No. 1)
  • Jeff Green (2007 Pick No. 5)
  • Yi Jianlian (2007 Pick No. 6)
  • Corey Brewer (2007 Pick No. 7)
  • Brandan Wright (2007 Pick No. 8)
  • Spencer Hawes (2007 Pick No. 10)
  • Michael Beasley (2008 Pick No. 2)
  • Danilo Gallinari (2008 Pick No. 6 - Part of trade for Carmelo Anthony)
  • Eric Gordon (2008 Pick No. 7 - Part of trade for Chris Paul)
  • Joe Alexander (2008 Pick No. 8)
  • Hasheem Thabeet (2009 Pick No. 2)
  • James Harden (2009 Pick No. 3 - Oklahoma City received two 1st round picks and Kevin Martin in return)
  • Jonny Flynn (2009 Pick No. 6)
  • Jordan Hill (2009 Pick No. 8)
  • Evan Turner (2010 Pick No. 2)
  • Derrick Favors (2010 Pick No. 3 - Part of trade for Deron Williams)
  • Wesley Johnson (2010 Pick No. 4)
  • Ekpe Udoh (2010 Pick No. 6)
  • Al-Farouq Aminu (2010 Pick No. 8 - Part of trade for Chris Paul)
  • Derrick Williams (2011 Pick No. 2)
  • Enes Kanter (2011 Pick No. 3)
  • Jan Vesely (2011 Pick No. 6)
  • Brandon Knight (2011 Pick No. 8)
  • Jimmer Fredette (2011 Pick No. 10)
  • Dion Waiters (2012 Pick No. 4)
  • Thomas Robinson (2012 Pick No. 5)
  • Austin Rivers (2012 Pick No. 10)
  • Anthony Bennett (2013 Pick No. 1)
  • Victor Oladipo (2013 Pick No. 2 - Part of trade for Serge Ibaka)
  • Nerlens Noel (2013 Pick No. 6)
  • Trey Burke (2013 Pick No. 9)
  • Nik Stauskas (2014 Pick No. 8)
  • Noah Vonley (2014 Pick No. 9)
  • Elfrid Payton (2014 Pick No. 10)
  • D'Angelo Russell (2015 Pick No. 2 - Traded for Kyle Kuzma and Brook Lopez)
  • Jahlil Okafor (2015 Pick No. 3)
  • Mario Hezonja (2015 Pick No. 5)
  • Emmanuel Mudiay (2015 Pick No. 7)
  • Stanley Johnson (2015 Pick No. 8)
  • Brandon Ingram (2016 Pick No. 2 - Part of trade for Anthony Davis)
  • Dragan Bender (2016 Pick No. 4)
  • Kris Dunn (2016 Pick No. 5 - Part of trade for Jimmy Butler)
  • Buddy Hield (2016 Pick No. 6 - Part of trade for DeMarcus Cousins)
  • Marquese Chriss (2016 Pick No. 8)
  • Jakob Poeltl (2016 Pick No. 9 - Part of trade for Kawhi Leonard)
  • Thon Maker (2016 Pick No. 10)
  • Markelle Fultz (2017 Pick No. 1)
  • Lonzo Ball (2017 Pick No. 2 - Part of trade for Anthony Davis)
  • Josh Jackson (2017 Pick No. 4)
  • Dennis Smith Jr. (2017 Pick No. 9 - Part of trade for Kristaps Porzingis)

There's no doubt in my mind that Marvin Bagley can have a nice, long career in the NBA.  It just remains to be seen if that will be in Sacramento.

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RikSmits
June 9, 2021 8:11 am

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WizsSox
June 9, 2021 8:41 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Beat me to same GIF. Haha

Otis
June 9, 2021 11:03 am
Reply to  RikSmits

/mandatory

BabyGiraffe
Admin
June 9, 2021 8:17 am

This is going to be a fun, level-headed discussion.

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
June 9, 2021 8:23 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

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BabalooMagoo
June 9, 2021 8:47 am
Reply to  Klam

Blucher’d

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
June 9, 2021 8:53 am
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

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Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
June 9, 2021 8:27 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

I don’t think there is going to be much debate in this thread. Are there any of us left that still think Bagley is a keeper and will be cornerstone to this franchise?

RikSmits
June 9, 2021 8:33 am
Reply to  Adamsite

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Otis
June 9, 2021 11:04 am
Reply to  Adamsite

If you separate those questions, I’d say yes (for next season) and of course not.

andy_sims
June 9, 2021 8:35 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

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Brown.says.Good.or.Bad
June 9, 2021 6:05 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

Nope. Marvin Bagley is bad

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
June 9, 2021 8:27 am

Here’s every top-10 pick from the last 15 years who was traded away or let go by their former team before their rookie contract was over:

I spy quite a bit of players the Kings drafted. 😉

andy_sims
June 9, 2021 8:35 am

.

Last edited 1 month ago by andy_sims
RikSmits
June 9, 2021 8:48 am
Reply to  andy_sims

You’ve got a point.

andy_sims
June 9, 2021 9:12 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Bravo! But the main thing is.

BuffaloDiaspora
June 9, 2021 8:42 am

Bagley is a 21 year old $11M expiring contract this season – the trade market should be reasonably ok between teams that want to take a flier and/or teams that want cap relief heading into next summer so there’s no reason to give him away.

If they can’t trade him for at least a prospect or a late first (or part of a larger package) then hang onto him until the trade deadline.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 8:56 am

Not at the Cool Kids table with this, but I am not totally out on Bagley.

Frustrating as hell, sure. Do I scrutinize him way more than other players, on practically a possession to possession basis? Hell yes. Fair, probably not.

I’d be willing to roll with him this last contract year and see what he can do. For the Kings to get good, they need an unexpected contributor to come from some current unforeseen place. Whether that be a second round pick or unexpected development of current players. I feel that’s as likely to happen with Bagley as it is with a late first round pick or whatever similar level of compensation you might get for him this off season.

If it doesn’t pan out, then yeah, it’s expiring and moving on. In terms of helping to retain Holmes, I’m not really in the Holmes for 14-15 mill a year camp anyway, so that doesn’t move the needle for me.

Here’s to hope…
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Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Bbmuteman
June 9, 2021 9:06 am
Reply to  WizsSox

I hear you. I hope bags can make it big still, but it just might not be here. Nothing solves problems like success, so I hope he makes a big jump next year and stays healthy.

Amonk81
June 9, 2021 2:10 pm
Reply to  Bbmuteman

Bags epitomizes all the mistakes the Kings make. Compiling a horrible pick at 2 by hanging on to useless/bench big would be another.

Bags is not going to improve that much or at all. He’s not gonna be good anywhere else. If he has such upside why didn’t other GMs agree to trade for him.

Get rid of him. Move on. Unfortunately, we can’t get rid of Vivek so all the issues will still be here.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
June 9, 2021 9:12 am
Reply to  WizsSox

The problem I see is Bagley would need to make the jump of most likely MIP to be a difference maker on this team. Basically he’d have to go from about 6th best player on the team to second best player on the team within the next 6 months if the Kings are to make the playoffs with him. That is a tall task.

andy_sims
June 9, 2021 9:32 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I’m not really sure that setting the threshold for Bagley’s progression at the player with league-wide consensus as the guy who made the largest year-over-year leap is a reasonable place to set the bar. Assuming that he’s still here opening night, if he can stay healthy, and show real progress as a defender, that would complicate things as he reaches RFA status.

I don’t know that he’s ever going to play to the standard that people assign to a #2 pick, or even if such a standard is fair. I agree with you that he could still have a productive NBA career, and if so, that it’s likely to be elsewhere. I watch pro sports to watch exceptional athletes do amazing things, and I hate when injuries rob the player of the chance to make fans say, “Did he just do what I think he did?”

And the thing about Bagley not traveling with the team during part of his recuperation is, frankly, just dumb. A global pandemic was still killing a couple thousand Americans a day, but it’s more important to camaraderie that he sit behind the bench in street clothes while significantly increasing his chances of being exposed? There are plenty of valid criticisms of Marvin Bagley, but this is a “Major Biden crapped on the floor at the White House and so hates America” level of nothingburger.

Last edited 1 month ago by andy_sims
WizsSox
June 9, 2021 9:33 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Possibly. I think if he could just be 30-32 minutes and able to earn consistent 4th quarter minutes and be a 3rd or 4th option, I think they could hunt the playoffs. Assuming they could be below average on defense and not historically bad. Which Bagley would have to be a big part of.

Otis
June 9, 2021 11:05 am
Reply to  WizsSox

What this person said.

furious.d
June 9, 2021 12:39 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Yeah I’m with the uncool kids on this one too. We gave PF minutes to Daquan Jeffries, Glenn Robinson, Metu, Bjelly, Jabari Parker, Chris Silva, and several other G-League guys last year. Bagley absolutely does not need to be an above-average starter to raise the team’s floor if that is our bench. We have exactly one decent forward on this roster in Barnes.

If we draft Mobley, keep Barnes, and add two other competent forwards in free agency, then sure we can flip Bagley to the highest bidder or let him expire if he’s so bad there are no takers.

BabalooMagoo
June 9, 2021 8:59 am

For both the Kings and his sake it’s time to cut him loose and move on. Will he be injury prone for his entire career? Who knows. His defense sucks and while he shows flashes of promise with a 30 point game, he follows it up with a 4 point turd. I’m in the camp of trying to move him along with Buddy and use the proceeds to resign Holmes and maybe help pay for a free agent.

BabalooMagoo
June 9, 2021 12:08 pm
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

P.S.

Grade: C-

TheGrantNapear
June 9, 2021 9:25 am

The best thing I can say at this moment about Bagley is:
Bagley > Porzingis

1951
June 9, 2021 9:30 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Setting aside contract considerations, I am going to need you to show your work on that take.

TheGrantNapear
June 10, 2021 8:25 am
Reply to  1951

My take is based completely on their contracts, I guess everyone missed that.
I’d rather have Bagley than KP based off their contracts.

Amonk81
June 9, 2021 2:12 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Not actually.

1951
June 9, 2021 9:28 am

We should trade him for Giannis. Who says no?

Kosta
June 9, 2021 1:12 pm
Reply to  1951

Giannyes!

Marty
June 9, 2021 10:09 am

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Amonk81
June 9, 2021 2:16 pm
Reply to  Marty

Agree. He ain’t improving much or at all. 3 years in the league and same shit.

This attitude of thinking The Kings crap -Walton, Bags, same players will become a playoff team/contender is fucking ridiculous.

Bags and this team/org are shit and I’m sick of the false hope of turning a corner while relying upon trash.

BasketballHella
June 9, 2021 10:17 am

On one hand I feel bad for the guy, I genuinely do. I cannot imagine how being the asterisk in a draft that is looking to be one of the best in a decade must mess with you.

But he also has that lethal combo of absolutely zero self awareness. An ego that has never been earned.

I actually don’t share the feeling that he will have a long and successful NBA career because here is the only and last place that is going to “showcase” him. If he wasn’t the #2 pick and this org was desperate to show that he’s not a bust we all know that he wouldn’t be getting even a fraction of the minutes he’s getting.

Also I have never seen a player so one sided even in sac which is saying something. Most if not all of his good games that he was a presence on the boards it was him getting his own rebound.

We all need to move on.

Otis
June 9, 2021 11:09 am

I think most of this is fan-generated:

But he also has that lethal combo of absolutely zero self awareness. An ego that has never been earned.

It’s fun to talk about, I suppose – just not sure it’s as big of a deal as we make it out to be. I have no problem with young players being overly confident.

Last edited 1 month ago by Otis
WizsSox
June 9, 2021 11:13 am
Reply to  Otis

Was in process of responding same type of thing. Papa Bagley…yeah lack of self awareness. Marvin hasn’t said much out of line. He doesn’t openly bitch about coming off the bench or 4th quarter minutes. He made the one comment people like to really attach to him about trying to be MVP his rookie year…comment from a 19 year old. If he was making comments this year like that then OK…but haven’t seen it, unless I just missed it.

He sure as hell knows a big pay day is on the line this season. He made efforts to improve in defense (Charges, rotations etc), use his right hand a bit more. Was he still bad at it? YES…but doesn’t mean he is not aware that’s what his viewed flaws are and wants to show improvement.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
BestHyperboleEver
June 9, 2021 12:31 pm
Reply to  Otis

Yeah, as long as it doesn’t breed complacency, then it’s fine. Heck, you could argue that a hyper-inflated and resilient over-confidence is vital for people in that type of position.

The world is made for people who aren’t cursed with self-awareness. – Annie Savoy

Kingsguru21
June 9, 2021 2:54 pm

Annie Savoy quotes should be auto-rec’s.

BasketballHella
June 9, 2021 3:47 pm
Reply to  Otis

I totally agree and I didn’t mean his off court persona but his on court one. As in he has no idea what to do when the ball isn’t in his hands.

I was specifically channeling the spurs game where he was constantly standing around then clapping for that pass that wasn’t coming. Also the flex after the put back that he got 3 of his own rebounds on.

eddie41
June 9, 2021 11:03 am

Trade him for Marvin the overqualified robot in Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

ZillersCat
June 9, 2021 12:16 pm
Reply to  eddie41

The brain the size of a planet .. Fifle

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Kingsguru21
June 9, 2021 1:10 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Technically that Marvin is a paranoid android, FWIW.

eddie41
June 9, 2021 2:00 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

In the book, he’s neither paranoid nor an android. He has the best lines too.

eddie41
June 9, 2021 2:13 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Never even bothered to watch the show because part of what made the first book so great was its narrative style, and the author ran out of gas about halfway through the sequel.

Kingsguru21
June 9, 2021 2:53 pm
Reply to  eddie41

I could swear Marvin was a paranoid android in the original BBC recordings, but I’d have to re-read the book again. It’s been a long time, and I never actually finished any of the books beyond Hitchhikers.

It’s okay to say Douglas Adams, especially if you are going to parse details as to whether or not Marvin was paranoid, android, robot, etc etc. But I’m not a Hitchhiker junkie either so I don’t much care…

eddie41
June 9, 2021 3:16 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

The first book is a classic. I’m actually sort of bummed the cartoon ruined Marvin if what you’re telling me is true.

Kingsguru21
June 10, 2021 3:08 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Marvin the Paranoid Android came from someone writing a prologue to the 5 book in 1 edition. (I forgot who it was and I’ve since lost the book by accident.) It never came from the movie whatsoever. I don’t know why you keep saying that.

Bbmuteman
June 9, 2021 11:09 am

I saw an interesting trade proposal of bagley for mo bamba and this year’s 2nd round pick from the magic. Who says no?

GFunkClassic
June 9, 2021 11:54 am
Reply to  Bbmuteman

I’m wondering who says yes…

RobHessing
June 9, 2021 11:48 am

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Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
June 9, 2021 12:11 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

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GFunkClassic
June 9, 2021 12:03 pm

I don’t see the point in moving him at this time. If his market value is that of a late 1st rounder, it would be foolish to make a move. You’re not going to get much value on the court from a late 1st rounder unless you get really really lucky. And it may take a few years. Let him play out his contract, and then determine where we’re at with him.

bjax1
June 9, 2021 12:38 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

I’m in this camp. If for whatever reason, he is the extra guy that a team wants in a trade for a good to great player (here’s looking at you CJ McCollum) then ok. Otherwise, keep him and cross your fingers for improvement.

BestHyperboleEver
June 9, 2021 12:58 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

This is reasonable. I think the argument you could make is that with that 1st round pick you could go for a player with a more ready made NBA role player. My issue with Bagley has always been that if he doesn’t make the major developmental leaps to become a star, he doesn’t offer a ton. If all you’re going to contribute is scoring, then you have to be absolutely elite at it to be a difference maker. Anything short of that you’re either depending on him developing abilities that haven’t been in evidence as long as I’ve been watching him (passing, high level defense, team-based skills in general) or he’s a small ball C/rim runner type. Which is nice to have, but easier to come by on the cheap. So assuming you could get a 1st for him, I could see someone preferring to go with a player that might have a lower ceiling, but more ready-made NBA role. Like a 3-and-D guy like Edwards or Duarte. Or a frontcourt floor spacer like Murphy or Todd. Or a second unit ball-handler like Mann. Or an interior bruiser like Sharpe. And to have those guys on a new, late-1st rookie scale deal.

NorCalKingsFan
June 9, 2021 7:55 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

I disagree entirely on his value, there is no way anyone is giving up a late 1st for Bagley, he’s not even worth a couple of 2nds considering his salary/production. We can’t even trade him for a late 1st rounder from last year’s draft.

Unless he is cut, he is here throughout his contract. Its possible he gets thrown into a deal, but I doubt it.

IMO, this “Bagley is worth a late 1st rounder” nonsense is just wishful thinking but I hope I’m wrong.

AnybodyButBagley
June 9, 2021 10:13 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

People are ignoring the fact that any other GM is smart enough to see what Bagley is.

GFunkClassic
June 9, 2021 10:40 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Disagree on the value all you want. The point remains and is even strengthened talking about a 2nd rounder. The Kings especially, are not going to get 14pt 7rb from a 2nd round pick.

AnybodyButBagley
June 10, 2021 7:16 am
Reply to  GFunkClassic

At best he plays half of the games in a season. How much does he really contribute?

When he does play and add 14 pt and 7 reb he gives up at least thirty in three quarters.

GFunkClassic
June 10, 2021 12:00 pm

Not likely. Any stats to back that up that assertion? He’s a -8 with offense and defensive rating combined. But his defensive rating is better than Barnes, Buddy, Fox and Halliburton.

AnybodyButBagley
June 10, 2021 4:22 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Just watch every team go at him without any resistance. Bagley has trouble figuring out if he is playing offense or defense. You can watch him box out guys instead of contesting shots.

He is clueless on defense.

GFunkClassic
June 10, 2021 5:08 pm

You’d think that it’d bear witness in the Defensive Rating stat, measuring points given up per 100 possessions. He’s had games were he actually looked pretty good on defense, and games were he looked pretty bad on defense. The problem has been with consistency and small ball lineups where he’s guarding a 3. And sometimes the best play is to box out and try and get a possible miss, instead of contesting and possibly giving up an AND1. It’s situational.

AnybodyButBagley
June 10, 2021 11:05 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Respect your opinion but in my opinion the situation for his defensive failure is every time he puts his shoes on.

His teammates are not much better.

AllHailBurton
June 9, 2021 12:24 pm

That list just set me off. We suck at scouting soooo much. Starting in 2011, jimmer, 2012- t rob, 2013 b-Mac, 2014 sauce castillo, 2015 calley- Stein, 2016 marquis chriss (traded draft night), 2017 got lucky with fox, 2018 bagley. All lottery picks. Further proof that this is basketball hell for sure.

Last edited 1 month ago by Jared Lawson
Kingsguru21
June 9, 2021 12:53 pm

While I wasn’t eager to move on before the season because I was hoping Bagley could turn it around, I don’t think he can be salvaged in Sac at this point. Some things just can’t be rescued. I would say the same with Buddy, for that matter.

I’m just not eager to see the Kings give Marvin Bagley away, either. It’s a tough spot to be in. I’m hoping the Kings can find a way to use Bagley to get a talented player, but I’ll believe it when I see it. Proof, as always, is in the pudding.

HaliComet
June 9, 2021 12:59 pm

Bags is starting to mature into a full grown man and a professional basketball player. I’m for keeping him as part of the core. In other news, here is an accurate assessment that teams relying on ball hogging will never win a championship despite the hog’s stats. https://sports.yahoo.com/dallas-mavericks-solve-luka-doncic-100000182.html

RandyBreuersNeckHair
June 9, 2021 2:00 pm
Reply to  HaliComet

Lol, ok. Glad we dodged that bullet.

Last edited 1 month ago by RandyBreuersNeckHair
RobHessing
June 9, 2021 3:03 pm
Reply to  HaliComet

I think the issue is there has more to do with the lack of talent around him than it does Doncic himself, even at the tender and still learning age of 22(!). To wit, Doncic has career usage of 34%. LeBron is not too far behind at 31.5%, and an Anthony Davis would likely bring Doncic’s usage down a bit.

That said, at least Doncic has seen the playoffs (twice) in his first three seasons. I guess that Bags has had the advantage of summers off to mature into a full grown man and professional basketball player.

Last edited 1 month ago by RobHessing
ScottyPop
June 10, 2021 8:11 am
Reply to  HaliComet

LOL. Makes an argument about ball hogging to defend a guy that’s averaged 1 assist a game during his career.

GFunkClassic
June 10, 2021 12:08 pm
Reply to  HaliComet

I think it’s funny so many can’t stand any sort of legit criticism of their Golden Boy Doncic. I’m glad he’s not a King. I wouldn’t sell my basketball soul for wins. I hate hero ball, ball hogging, and players that constantly whine to the refs.

NorCalKingsFan
June 9, 2021 3:19 pm

I don’t think Bagley has any value at all other than maybe a reclamation project.

I’m all for buying him out just to get his contract off the books for next year. He is a bust of pick, he provides little to no production on the court. Hopefully for him, he’ll get a shot again elsewhere.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 3:37 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I could be wrong, our cap gurus can correct if so, but I don’t think buying him out this summer saves the Kings on the cap. Saves owners actual dollars, but not the cap. Not a ton of incentive to do that if that’s the case.

Bagley was part of a starting lineup that in over 400 mins had a +7 rating, one of the better marks for lineups that played significant minutes this season…Suns starting lineup for example was +4. He has flaws, some of them major. But he is not a useless player.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
andy_sims
June 9, 2021 5:27 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

I’m pretty sure that you’re right, Wiz. There have been no shortage of “just cut him” takes, as if that would be the end of it. Crazy that no one on here has been offered a GM job yet.

NorCalKingsFan
June 9, 2021 7:58 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It terms of cutting him (buying him out), it has to be done this year or his $11.3M salary will still count against the cap next year (if he were to be bought out next year instead of during this year). There is no actual savings in money because he is unlikely to accept anything other than a full payout, its just whether or not it counts against the cap next year.

Last edited 1 month ago by NorCalKingsFan
andy_sims
June 10, 2021 12:36 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

There might be a cap hold for ’22-’23, but there’s no actual cap issue related to Bagley, assuming Sacramento doesn’t sign him to a new deal.

BestHyperboleEver
June 10, 2021 10:45 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I feel like you generally have to go with a truncated mean approach when referring to opinions on message boards.

andy_sims
June 10, 2021 2:17 pm

I’m trying to be considerate, and keep them under ten thousand words. In regard to Bagley specifically, and Hield to a lesser degree, there have been so many cut him/trade him for anything comments that there really isn’t a lot to say in response.

If that is the kind of strategy that some feel would result in improvement of the product, it strikes me as a rather incomplete understanding of how professional sports function, and in theory, capitalism itself. There may be a way to get rich giving away assets for no return, but I am unaware of it.

oshima9
June 11, 2021 8:36 am
Reply to  andy_sims

“If that is the kind of strategy that some feel would result in improvement of the product, it strikes me as a rather incomplete understanding of how professional sports function, and in theory, capitalism itself. There may be a way to get rich giving away assets for no return, but I am unaware of it.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_(essay)

As suggested here, it would involve the creation of a new form of social relations influenced by pre-capitalist norms.

Kingsguru21
June 10, 2021 3:09 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Crazy that no one on here has been offered a GM job yet.

Kinda upset nobody has offered me a job, honestly.

NorCalKingsFan
June 9, 2021 8:03 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

He is useless on the majority of NBA teams, he might be useful to a team like the Sixers where he could come off the bench as a Harrell-type point getter and the Sixers could hide his horrendous defense, but they aren’t going to give up anything for him. Besides, you could get the actual Harrell for 75% of Marvin’s salary.

RobHessing
June 9, 2021 3:25 pm

Full disclosure: While Bagley may be a contributing factor to the following, it is the front office and above that wears the responsibility for these results.

There were nine teams in the 2018 draft with sub-30 wins: The Suns, Griz, Mavs, Hawks, Magic, Kings, Bulls, Nets and Knicks. The following is the net increase / decrease in their winning percentage three seasons later:
Made playoffs this season
Suns +.452
Nets +.326
Mavs +.291
Hawks +.277
Griz +.260
Missed playoffs this season
Kings +.102
Bulls +.102
Magic -.013

Again, Bagley is just a contributing factor here of a larger issue, but we have seen moribund teams such as the Suns, Mavs, Hawks and Griz turn themselves around while the Kings founder along with the Bulls.

There are no conversations in Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta or Memphis as to whether Ayton, Doncic, Young or Jackson should stay or go. And the fault for that is far north of Marvin Bagley, and perhaps even north of the front office.

Marty
June 9, 2021 3:45 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Bagley is just a contributing factor here of a larger issue

Has this been discussed previously?

reydarly
June 9, 2021 4:37 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

The Hawks went from a 62(?) win team, into the gutter, and back into the playoffs within 5 years. And I really don’t think they are much better than the Kings if at all now so its frustrating. There clearly is a huge issue outside of Bagley.

oshima9
June 11, 2021 8:39 am
Reply to  reydarly

I’m having trouble grasping this. The Hawks won their first round series and have a good chance of making the Eastern Conference Finals. But, I do agree, this is much bigger than Bagley. I put little, if any, blame on him for the poor performance of the team. He didn’t make the Kings draft him, and doesn’t make the Kings put him out on the floor.

andy_sims
June 9, 2021 5:30 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Excellent quantification of something that should have been apparent. When all is said and done, kids who get drafted generally have no say in where they end up.

I still think this lands on VD, trying to show how brilliant he was by going against the grain.

richie88
June 9, 2021 8:02 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Since McNair wasn’t here until the last offseason, I wouldn’t consider the current FO a factor (unless you count Vivek as part of the FO, which could be reasonable IMO).

Kingsguru21
June 10, 2021 3:12 pm
Reply to  richie88

100% with you on McNair. This off-season is huge for McNair, though. And it always was going to be.

eddie41
June 9, 2021 4:02 pm

I’ll trade Marvin Bagley for a vinyl copy of Marvin Gaye’s “Got to Give it up”

Brown.says.Good.or.Bad
June 9, 2021 6:09 pm
Reply to  eddie41

haha! this is good

LandParkJimmer
June 9, 2021 4:05 pm

The only rebounds Bagley gets are from his own missed shots. He should be humbled with some time in the G league

AnybodyButBagley
June 9, 2021 6:46 pm
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

Agree….

Send him to the G league and see if he can play more than 5 games in a row.

Let him know that he needs to earn minutes now. They handed him a starting role based on his fantasy potential and ignored the fact that he is the worst defensive player in the league.

Time for Bagley to deal with reality.

andy_sims
June 10, 2021 2:22 pm

Should you, nothing forbid, ever suffer a debilitating injury, I’m confident that you’ll gain some insight into what that sort of thing does to focus the mind on the present reality.

AnybodyButBagley
June 10, 2021 4:28 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Being available to play is part of being a legitimate NBA player.

His final groin injury is questionable at best. In my opinion he quit.

BeTheBall
June 9, 2021 4:27 pm

If he can be part of a deal that returns good value, I have no problem dealing him this offseason. If he can’t, then so be it. Best case in him staying here is that he can actually stay moderately healthy for once and contribute to the team. Worst case, he’s mostly injured again, other players get newfound playing time for us to take a look at, and he’s gone next summer.

I’m perfectly fine with any of the above. The one thing I hope we don’t see, is him putting together a bunch of sloppy, no-impact 14/7/0 games and keeping a spot in the starting lineup because of his draft position.

NorCalKingsFan
June 9, 2021 8:08 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

That’s my actual concern with Bagley, I know he is gone after next year no matter what happens (he is not re-signing here) and he’ll eat up minutes that we should be giving to someone else (like Woodard or a new draft pick).

oshima9
June 11, 2021 8:40 am
Reply to  BeTheBall

Agree

AnybodyButBagley
June 9, 2021 4:37 pm

The best thing for Bagley and the Kings would be for Bagley to leave. The Kings need a player that produces now and Bagley needs a fresh start where he can grow in the background.

The problem is nobody is willing to give the Kings anything for him. Bagley brings no value to a team right now. Bagley is a big maybe.

Why give the Kings anything for Bagley if you can wait a year for his free agency?

If he stays on the Kings this season and continues his trend of zero defense and extremely limited availability another team can pick him up next year for essentially nothing. Trade for him this season and then you are committed to him for $11.3M. There are not many people in the NBA dumb enough to make that commitment to Bagley.

The rest of the NBA is waiting for him to be available at his realistic value. Unfortunately the Kings have guaranteed that Bagley is a wealthy man for nothing in return.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 5:57 pm

Well if a team does like him and can actually get him for a late first or low level prospect (I wouldn’t trade him for that as the Kings), then I think he is possibly worth the flier from an already good team. Yes it costs you 11 million this season (Could be less against the cap based on salary sent back), but it does gain you his restricted rights, which isn’t nothing. IF he blossoms you have rights to match and lock him up at a potentially discounted rate or maybe negotiate a sign and trade and basically recoup what you traded for him.

That said, I think Bagley stays on the Kings, because these type of trades don’t seem super beneficial for the Kings currently unless really trying to clear space with Buddy for a bigger target/trade. Now if he demands a trade and starts acting more like Papa Bagley, maybe these become more realistic.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
AnybodyButBagley
June 9, 2021 6:30 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Papa Bagley will only create more problems for his trade situation in my opinion.

I think any team in the NBA who wants Bagley for his unrealized potential will wait until he is a free agent and offer him something much lower than $11.3M. If Bagley stays as is, the bidding war for Bagley will be in favor of the teams not Bagley.

If Bagley shows up and plays intelligent and consistent basketball for the entire length of time before the trade deadline maybe he is worth something in a trade.

Bagley for any first round pick seems almost as dumb as drafting Bagley three years ago.

Last edited 1 month ago by AnybodyButBagley
Otis
June 9, 2021 9:44 pm

If LaVar Ball ended up not being a problem for his sons, Papa Bagley certainly won’t.

AnybodyButBagley
June 9, 2021 10:22 pm
Reply to  Otis

Papa Bagley is nothing compared to Ball. But, Ball’s son can play basketball. Ball’s son actually acknowledged his dad’s mouth and spoke for himself.

Papa Bagley adds drama to a kid who has done nothing to create value for himself in this league.

If Papa Bagley gets loud, and the Kings try to move him, other teams will offer less because the Kings are going to look desperate to dump him. Any little negative adds up to problems for Bagley.

oshima9
June 11, 2021 8:42 am

What is that realistic value? Because the way Bagley plays now, he will be out of the league within a couple of years as more younger talent comes into it. His best hope is that he ends up on a team that emphasizes defense, demands that he play it and can effectively teach him how to do it. Unfortunately, I don’t think Team Bagley sees it that way.

AnybodyButBagley
June 11, 2021 7:22 pm
Reply to  oshima9

I would not give up a bag of popcorn for Bagley.

Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 4:40 pm

My question remains, why the hell hasn’t this guy gotten his ass into the weight room in three years? Clearly, weakness is his weakness. Whether it’s for the Kings or someone else, does this guy even care about his basketball career?

HongKongKingsFan
June 9, 2021 5:22 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

He did not go into weight room.

Bagley went to recording studio for his album…

p.s. To be fair, he did work on his right hand a bit….. (but come on, he is a professional basketball player, he supposed to be able to use his both hands)

Otis
June 9, 2021 9:44 pm

You don’t know this, lol.

andy_sims
June 9, 2021 5:32 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

That’s one hell of an assumption. I couldn’t add weight for shit when I was in my twenties.

Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 5:48 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Good for you. Dude has the same sacks of skin body since the day he arrived. Not even talking weight, zero tone at all. Look what even skinnier Fox has done with his body in three years, and guess what, less injuries. And sorry, unless you’re a professional athlete making millions, you’re not really a good comp, man.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 6:10 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

You make him sound like he looks like Poku. Could improved functional strength and flexibility help injuries…of course. Two of his bigger injuries are from a broken thumb and hand. But probably not avoiding those by pounding more squats and deadlifts.

Can he get stronger…yeah. Saying he hasn’t at all or tried to in 3 years is a wild flippin assumption.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 6:20 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Who cares if he’s “tried at all”? Pretty low bar. Results are all that matter in professional sports, and he’s clearly getting left behind and not doing nearly enough. Okay, thumb and hand, I’ll give him 2.5 years. And his apathetic demeanor towards other things doesn’t exactly scream I’m hitting the weights, bro.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 6:40 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

Yeah you missed the point about the thumb and hand…wasn’t saying he lost time working out. Saying muscle or lack thereof prolly wasn’t the reason those injuries happen, which you gave Fox credit for lack of injury due to improved fitness.

I don’t even get what this last sentence means in this context. Apathetic demeanor…I’m assuming because he is pretty lowkey in huddles which is all we get to see. Not sure that means he doesn’t “hit the weights”.

Not even a Bagley defender…but some of the conclusions that are jumped to about his personality, demeanor or desire to improve based on his disappointing performance is kind of nonsensical.

It’s entirely possible he is trying to improve and is just not that good. Very likely. That doesn’t mean the Kings have to keep him around for a participation trophy…it also doesn’t mean he just sits in his beat lab all day not taking basketball seriously at all. Which absolutely none of us have any fucking clue what he does each day. So to say he doesn’t hit the weight room and hey your pro athlete get swole bro, is just dumb.

Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 6:57 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

I’ll just go with the pix I see of him, the lack of progress, the way he handles himself on the court, the way he handles social media, the way he handles press conferences, and the Glass Joe injuries he continues to take. While not 100%, that’s a pretty decent look into who and what he is. I’m not going to sit on the side of the small, off chance that I’m wrong, like you are.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 7:06 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

His social media presence?!?! You mean his practically non existent Twitter and Instagram pages. He doesn’t post, like ever. Is that showing his apathetic demeanor? We both have posted more on this thread than he has on Twitter in like a year.
comment image

My take is Marvin Bagley probably won’t be on the Kings next year and will probably bounce around as a solid bench big for 5-6 years after that. Best guess. Just don’t think supposed offers people are throwing out there for Marvin are worth the Kings taking, because yeah he might improve and that is more worthwhile to me than the compensation being thrown about.

Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 7:23 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Add lame, over the top gif to emphasize weak point. As if his father’s unaddressed social media posts aren’t where his sentiments lie.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 7:31 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

Hahaha…sorry my GIF game isn’t up to standard. I really wanted the ESPN Sunday Football “C’mon man”, but couldn’t find it quickly.

Should I just be more blunt and say stop making wild stupid ass assumptions about things you, I or almost nobody know anything about. With my Dad and our relationship, yes those continued posts would have meaning, bc I would tell him to knock that stuff off and he would listen to my request.

I don’t know the father/son relationship between the Bagley’s so I have no flippin clue if his sentiments lie with his father and his Twitter posts. He has never said they did soooo…WHO THE HELL KNOWS.

But apparently you do. Have a good one.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 7:50 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Yes, but one can make some valid assumptions based on three years of observed consistent behavior. It’s called the Scientific Method,

Not a Bagley defender, though, ladies and gentlemen.

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 8:03 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

Sure let’s just get off the rails here, thread is dead by now…

My observed behavior is a lot of people from Roseville are pompous, know it alls…it’s been pretty consistent in my lifetime. Thus you are a pompous, know it all Rosevillain….am I doing this so called Scientific method correctly and applying my observed behaviors in a proper context? (Relax all…Roseville is fine : )

Scientific method would mean that you conduct an experiment/test your hypothesis after said observed behavior. Your experiment and controlling of variables entails what exactly?

I’m not a Bagley defender…I’m a defender against non sensical, unprovable bullshit spouted as accepted fact. But my GIF game is poor apparently…so maybe my points aren’t strong enough.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 9:06 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

NIce. Almost the word for word Google definition. As if three years of photos documenting the change and development, or lack thereof, of something’s physical condition doesn’t apply. Unless you’d like me toss Marv in a Petri dish and splash him with some iodine?

But the biggest problem is that you assumed I’m from Roseville, Your Wokeness.

Last edited 1 month ago by Rosevillain
WizsSox
June 9, 2021 11:04 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

Sorry if your not from Roseville. Why would I think that!?!? With all the wild assumptions being made about people, work ethics, their motivations and what they represent seemed like a safe place to just assume based on “observed data”

Literally just proves the whole point. I know as much about you and where you live as you do about Marvins daily workout habits and relationship with his father. See how assumptions on little info can be wrong yet?

But I forgot, your working through science here.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Rosevillain
June 9, 2021 11:47 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

you’re

WizsSox
June 9, 2021 11:52 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

Oh no…I feel so stupid and insecure now for you pointing out to the whole board my grammatical error. The horror!!!!

Do you prefer MLA, APA or Chicago format for my next post? Wouldn’t want to get dinged on my citations and formatting.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Rosevillain
June 10, 2021 9:37 am
Reply to  WizsSox

Actually, you did it twice, so I’m not sold it was an oversight.

WizsSox
June 10, 2021 11:04 am
Reply to  Rosevillain

All seriousness…in your mind does this make you feel like you won this little tit for tat? Caught me on a couple grammatical errors I typed out at midnite last night. So thus inherently my other points are invalid?

Hold on, just proofread….is it midnite or midnight Professor? Don’t want you to be able to make me look silly by making such a horrendous error.

Glad to see you really can see the forest through the trees.

Few members live up to their screen name…you have found success sir. Onto another thread we all go….or is it “on to”. Damn it again

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Rosevillain