Articles | Commentary | Trade News

Monte McNair has overhauled the Kings

For better or worse, Monte McNair has undeniably changed this Sacramento Kings team.

The 2022 NBA Trade Deadline has come and gone and the Sacramento Kings are a much changed team.

Gone are Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley III, Tristan Thompson, Robert Woodard II and Jahmi'us Ramsey.

In are Domantas Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb, Justin Holiday, Donte DiVincenzo, Trey Lyles and Josh Jackson.

After nearly two years of standing pat, Monte McNair has finally pushed in some of his chips to try to get the Kings back to relevancy.

Will Monte's big bet pan out?  That remains to be seen, but as of now, all indications are that the Kings are a better team than they were two days ago.  Domantas Sabonis is the best big man the Kings have had since DeMarcus Cousins, and as shown in his first glimpse of action last night against the Timberwolves, brings a new dimension to Sacramento's offense that hasn't been there for quite a while.  The acquisition of Donte DiVincenzo also brings back a player that McNair and Sacramento have coveted since last year.  DiVincenzo has struggled this season after missing much of last year and this year recovering from ankle surgery, but if he can get back to form, he's exactly the type of 3-and-D player the Kings have been looking to pair with De'Aaron Fox.

The Kings are also a far more balanced team than they were before.  Whereas before the Kings were very guard focused and had little to no wing depth, the Kings now have a bevy of wings to try out for the remainder of this season in Jeremy Lamb, Justin Holiday and Josh Jackson.  None of those guys are necessarily future solutions or even going to be part of the future (only Holiday is under contract for next season and he's the oldest Sacramento King, turning 33 in April), but they're better options than what the Kings had been trotting out, and allow the team to play a bit more traditionally.  Lyles has bounced around from team to team and hasn't managed to carve out a consistent role, but his playstyle seems like it could fit next to a guy like Sabonis and he as a small team option for next season if the Kings like what they see over the final 25 games.

Moving on from Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley III is arguably addition by subtraction in itself.  While Buddy is one of the NBA's premier three-point shooters, it's been clear for a while that he's wanted out of Sacramento.  When Buddy is on, he can singlehandedly win you a game.  The problem is that Buddy can also do the opposite, because he usually keeps shooting like he's on even when he isn't.  In Bagley's case, it's more of just a clean break for the Kings and him.  Bagley has had a tumultuous career thanks to a combination of injuries and draft expectations that he hasn't been able to live up to.  He now has the chance to start fresh in Detroit while the Kings no longer have to worry about trying to fit him in or figuring out when he'd be available to play.

The Kings were able to make these moves without giving up any future picks, which is always a shaky proposition given our recent history, but they did send out one of the most promising young talents in the entire NBA in Tyrese Haliburton.  This is Monte's biggest gamble.  For this to be worth it, the Kings have to be right that these guys they have acquired are going to make the Kings a consistent playoff team again, especially if Haliburton becomes the star that many of us believe he can be.  History has not been particularly kind to the Kings when they make these kind of gambles and so the criticism and apprehension that we've seen since the trade has been well deserved.  In the basketball world, the Kings are guilty until proven innocent.  Time will tell, but Monte is clearly hoping that these moves will be able to change that narrative and move us forward to a better future.  For our sakes, I hope he's right.

Support Us On Patreon
Subscribe
Notify of
189 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
deepshot22
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 2:18 pm

Admittedly me…

Tuesday night- “I’m done with them for good! Just fucking done.”
Wednesday night- “Hmm, this is interesting.”

Last edited 7 months ago by deepshot22
SexyNapear
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 6:12 pm
Reply to  deepshot22

Still should have traded Barnes. He’s been wildly inconsistent and had value. He’s an expiring next year and doesn’t figure into timeline.

Keeping him instead of getting a draft asset or young player with potential is a clear miss for me.

deepshot22
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 8:59 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Barnes became indispensable when all the shooting was sent for Sabonis. I think we will see him finish out the year with many nights like last night with all the defensive presence put on Fox and Sabonis. I see Barnes’ value increasing rapidly because of this and the single year left on his deal. I could see him traded for a nice pick or trade up in the draft closer to draft day or a great return at the deadline this year.

I think its Holmes that should have been traded with all the centers on the roster. Personally I’d like to see Jones get the back up minutes behind Sabonis.

deepshot22
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 9:00 pm
Reply to  deepshot22

At the deadline NEXT year, obviously.

Storm
Comments
Comments
February 10, 2022 2:21 pm

Well, I certainly believe we are a much better team now than at the beginning of the year. Our roster construction makes sense for the first time in who knows how long

Here’s hoping for the best, another gamble…..one has to go our way eventually right? Why not this one?

AmateurNerd
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
February 10, 2022 2:22 pm

Reading the list of outgoing players and comparing it to the list of incoming players, it’s clear the talent level on this team has significantly increased. My gut says it’s too little, too late to make a serious run at the playoffs this year, but at this point I only care about next year. If Monte can make another good move or two in the offseason, we could be looking at the first Kings team in close to 20 years that should make the playoffs, as opposed to one that could make it if everything goes exactly right (which it never does, for any team).

mdeedublu
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 2:29 pm

Does anyone know what the cap sheet looks like at the end of this season?

BuffaloDiaspora
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 2:41 pm
Reply to  mdeedublu

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/cap/2022/

It’s complicated because the cap holds for Lamb and DD total about $30M.

mdeedublu
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 2:51 pm

Much appreciated. It looks like they’ll only need to fill 3-4 spots and nothing critical. It seems they’re in a reasonable spot for free agency.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 3:27 pm

It’s not that complicated at all. Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, Holmes, Holiday, Mitchell, Harkless, Davis, and Len are all under contract for next season. There is a team option for Metu that will kick in before July 1.

That’s 10 players.

There’s the draft pick, particularly the 1st round pick, and several 2nd rounders (Kings currently have 3 2nd’s next season) that will have cap holds as well.

All FA’s with Bird, Early Bird or Non Bird rights have cap holds. In order to get under the cap, you have to renounce all cap holds and exceptions.

As of now, the Kings are under the cap for next season BUT that’s before draft picks and cap holds. Chances are any major acquisition includes the 1st round pick, Holmes, Barnes or the combination of all 3.

I take it back. It probably is a tad complicated.

Want2win
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 3:36 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

User name KingsCapGuru checks out

SneakerKing
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:56 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I could see the Kings selling some of this year’s 2nd round picks for cash.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 4:22 pm
Reply to  SneakerKing

Man, I hate that. At least trade into the future or pick up a Euro stash.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 5:25 pm

But when you have 3 picks in the 2nd rd? I get it. IMO, you’re doing good if you get a player, a stash and cash.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 5:48 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

In general, I think Euro stashes and G-league rights are underutilized. And I’m not all that concerned with making sure the ownership pockets a few more million.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 6:02 pm

When it’s not my money I’d 100% agree with you. But unfortunately money is still a real thing, and in the real world that will never stop being an issue.

murraytant
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 6:04 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

actually, it is better to spend for a late first- to a team over the cap, who is successful and wants the money and no increased burden, but I think have to be under to do that. Some good players snagged in that or similar way- Desmond Bane for example

murraytant
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 6:02 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

just 2.
The Indy pick was 2023.
In 2024, traded their own but own the Portland pick

rockbottom
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:25 pm
Reply to  SneakerKing

You can not play cash !

murraytant
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 6:01 pm
Reply to  SneakerKing

Kings have 2- their own plus Chicago’s. Helps to keep them because can pick a Euro and use as a trade filler if under cap. In 2023- have 2 as well- this includes the Indy pick

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 2:30 pm

Looks like I’m back to spending money on Kings tix…

RocklinRoll
Comments
Comments
February 10, 2022 2:33 pm

Heading in a direction, even if it ends up being the wrong one, is better than spending your life staring at the fork in the road.

AmateurNerd
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
February 10, 2022 2:38 pm
Reply to  RocklinRoll

Yep. I was all in favor of tanking and going full rebuild, but Monte picked the other path. Hope it works. I was really concerned the FO/ownership was just delusional and thought the (old) roster could somehow become competitive without major changes. Glad to know I was wrong about that.

ScottyPop
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:07 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

I think the path was chosen for him. I could be wrong though

markdog333
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Comments
February 10, 2022 4:38 pm
Reply to  ScottyPop

It kind of fits the way that Houston was built and rebuilt under Morey, so this could very will be how McNair works going forward.

SMF-PDXConnection
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 2:37 pm

I’ll say this much; my interest has been slightly piqued.

OG_Aggie
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 2:39 pm

Ok, where are we? Kings are 2 games back of The Pelicans for the 10th spot. If they pass them, they’ve technically made the postseason. I feel like Bill Clinton saying that, but it is true. They would then have to beat two of the Lakers, Clips, or Wolves to make the playoffs. All three of those teams are flawed, so it is possible. After that… I’m not going there. But it’s a better place to be than it would have been before today. So props to the GM for showing chest hair. Hope it works.

TrojanCBB
Comments
Comments
February 10, 2022 2:41 pm
Reply to  OG_Aggie

Apparently players dont get their playoff bonuses for making the play-in. So if it doesn’t count for them, it wont count for me.

I just want the team to be better, and if they make the play-in because they beat teams who are actually trying to win as well, then cool.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
February 10, 2022 2:43 pm
Reply to  OG_Aggie

I feel it’s just going to come down to the Pels and Kings for the 10th spot. A lot will be contingent on if Fox and Mitchell can stay healthy, because they are the only PGs on the roster and if Zion returns. It’s a crap shoot.

Greg
Admin
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Author
February 10, 2022 4:30 pm
Reply to  OG_Aggie

Play-in is considered postseason but not playoffs, according the NBA itself. Making the playin doesn’t end the playoff drought.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 4:38 pm
Reply to  Greg

That’s where I am about it. Just because the standards have been lowered doesn’t mean you’ve accomplished anything.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 2:40 pm

Let’s go get that 10th seed!

comment image

TitleChaser
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 2:45 pm

If nothing else, I think the deadline suggests two things about McNair:

1) He won’t be rushed when it comes to big moves. He waits until there’s an option he’s comfortable with, and if that option’s not there, he won’t do anything— UNLESS doing nothing is a guaranteed loser: see Walton’s late firing.

2) He’s not sentimental. Over the course of three days, he’s dumped all the picks from his first draft. And while Woodard was a dud, Ramsey still had room to grow, and we all know how special Haliburton was. It didn’t matter; they were in the way of the moves he wanted, or felt he needed, to make.

I don’t mind these characteristics. Rushing into things can mean unforced errors; it’s nearly always better to find the right opportunity and/or take advantage of desperation of others. Likewise, sentimentality can keep blind one to seeing what needs to be done.

Still, sometimes I worry that McNair’s nature can make things worse than they need to be at times. Take the decision to keep Richaun Holmes. I don’t know what deals were available, but IF there was a half-decent deal, perhaps he should have just taken it. Short of Holmes and Sabonis magically feeling together, Holmes’s value will likely drop as a backup, and rob the Kings of a better starting lineup. Additionally, Holmes deserves the opportunity to start after everything he’s done. I worry that not only will the Kings get a diminished return on Holmes’ value, along with diminished returns on the season after not getting a shooting forward who fits better, free agents might remember what happened to Holmes after after taking that sweetheart of a deal.

McNair seemingly proved that he knows his job better than we do this trade deadline. Still, his actions leave me more unsettled than I’d like to be.

aplumley
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 2:49 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

If there wasn’t a deal available that made the Kings better NOW, then he likely just gave it a miss. No biggie. Holmes value won’t drop, he’s a pretty well known commodity at this point. He’ll likely get shipped out in the offseason. I really like Holmes, and am bummed he’s leaving. It’s likely the deals just weren’t there, which is surprising.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 3:14 pm
Reply to  aplumley

I agree, re-signing Holmes at those figures was a minor coup, and he remains an eminently tradable asset, one who could be helpful to a lot of teams.

It’s weird for us to have a hand full of good cards, but I’m hoping that we’ll just need to get used to it.

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 3:36 pm
Reply to  aplumley

Right, going into the summer, every team that needs a C will be calling Monte.

TitleChaser
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:56 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Yes, but they’ll also be calling the Rockets, the Spurs, the Suns (or Ayton directly), the Magic, the Hawks depending on how they see the Collins), perhaps the Knicks, along with Nurkic and Drummond directly. There are definitely options out there.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 4:40 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

Not many locked down for three more years at $12 mil per.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 4:21 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

They’re probably kick the tires. But ambitious teams likely won’t see him as starter.

TitleChaser
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:37 pm
Reply to  aplumley

I hope you’re right, on both fronts. However, I’m not yet convinced. For one thing, I think the Holmes has had a few great years, but he’s by no means a guaranteed commodity, and it remind the league of some of his weaknesses if Metu or Harkless are beating him out for a starting spot. And I’m more concerned about the immediate costs; the Kings did what they did to make the play-in and look like a play-off team for the near future. Unless Holmes and Sabonis can pull a Mobley and Allen thing, they lack of a trade makes that harder.

WizsSox
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:47 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

I think the idea that NBA GM’s whose job it is to know the league would be “reminded” of Holmes weaknesses because he isn’t starting over Metu (who has a different skillset) doesn’t hold a lot of water. I think if the last two days should teach us anything is that the majority of these GM’s know what they are doing.

Doesn’t mean every move is right and doesn’t mean they might take a gamble that doesn’t pay off…but they aren’t attacking these problems with a lack of knowledge and information. I doubt Holmes value changes much at all. He is an undersized, high energy center with a great mid range game. If Monte didn’t get a deal he liked, then it makes Holmes a great back up, which isn’t a terrible thing to have in the short term and you wait until a team gets more desperate.

Last edited 7 months ago by WizsSox
TitleChaser
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:08 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

You make some good points about Holmes, and I very much hope you’re right about Monte’s strategy. Only point of disagreement is about GMs knowing what’s they’re doing; I have very distinct questions about the competence of the GMs for the Blazers, Mavericks, Wizards, Lakers and Knicks— at minimum— after this trade deadline.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 4:19 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

FOs generally know the players and understand market values. That doesn’t necessarily mean their team building approaches are all brilliant. Bad GMs are usually bad because of their strategy. Not because of their information. Holmes is well known around the league as a high level back up big. Just because he’s been starting for the Kings doesn’t mean other GMs or the market are going to value him as a “starting C.” We saw exactly that in his FA. We didn’t get a steal. We got a lesson in how much Kings fans were overvaluing Holmes relative to the market. Ultimately, he’s a high quality, dependable rotation-worthy big on a reasonable deal even if he’s a backup. That has value either on the roster or on the market.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:25 pm

Finally someone who agree with me regarding Holmes. I called him a below average starting NBA post player and got hammered for it. I thought we over paid for him and thought 3 years at 30 million with a team option in year 3. I didn’t think he could get more than that and I wouldn’t have paid him more than that. He’s a high volume backup on a good team and I stand by that.

TitleChaser
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:35 pm

Bad strategy would indeed include things like acting on poor understanding of whether someone is a starter or not, and who should fit around that player, which happens pretty frequently in this league. Regarding your thoughts as to Holmes, I appreciate that your approach is well-reasoned and fear that the following months and years may prove you right. Still, I sincerely hope your analysis is proven incorrect.

MillersCornrows
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 7:39 pm

Holmes is high-quality but being overvalued? I’m super happy he’s still on the team. He’s a badass backup center and seems to positively contribute to team chemistry.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 4:43 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

The Wizards in particular. I can’t make any sense of them taking on such a long and expensive contract for a player who can’t be relied on because of injuries. This hamstrings them for years.

Whatever else the Mavs’ GM did or didn’t do, he got rid of one of the worst contracts going.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 6:17 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yeah but the Mavs did take back Bertans along with Dinwiddie. Bertans contract isn’t great either.

Last edited 7 months ago by Kingsguru21
Carl
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 9:17 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yeah, that Wizards deal is kind of a disaster. Really glad he didn’t end up here.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 11, 2022 9:36 am
Reply to  Carl

Very much absolutely.

aplumley
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 12, 2022 7:41 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

You are simultaneously arguing that Monte should have gotten value for Holmes and that Holmes has limited value. You’re probably right on both or neither.

richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:32 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

For his sake, I definitely would’ve liked it if Holmes had been traded before the TDL. Hopefully there’s a good deal for him in the off-season.

murraytant
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:49 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

Holmes best “deal” was Hornets- who looked at him, at Heurtl and at Harrell. Went with Montrez. I think they traded PJ Washington, Not certain of his fit in Sac.

TitleChaser
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:10 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Forgive me if I misunderstood you, but the Hornets did not trade PJ Washington. He was my preferred target for the deadline, and seeing how Harrell is an expiring, I hope McNair gives a go
at him in the offseason.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 4:31 pm
Reply to  murraytant

It was Harrell for Ish, Carey, and a 2nd. If that were on the table, I’d rather just keep Holmes for the time being.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
February 10, 2022 4:43 pm

That is crazy cheap for Harrell. I still don’t know why the Wiz did that.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 6:19 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Expiring and not worth more. Hollinger made this point in The Athletic today about expirings: Why overpay in trade when you can wait until they get bought out? Wiz took what they could get, I suspect.

Last edited 7 months ago by Kingsguru21
markdog333
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Comments
February 10, 2022 4:53 pm
Reply to  TitleChaser

It feels like we (me included) over value Holmes compared to the market. I don’t believe Holmes took a sweetheart deal to remain with the Kings. There did not appear to be any interest to sign him for more money when everyone knew how much the Kings could offer.

His contract seems like great value, so it is surprising to me that no teams apparently were willing to offer much in return. I was expecting at least a late first round pick in return.

reydarly
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 10:03 pm
Reply to  markdog333

Holmes is a good player. However the question from other teams is if his increased productivity last season was moreso due to Haliburton being a stud and Fox having a career year. I heard that point made last summer, I don’t remember by who but it makes sense. Thinking that way will allow you to see his value more appropriately.

Last edited 7 months ago by Daryl Adams
Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
February 10, 2022 2:58 pm

So I keep seeing on Twitter that Monte flipped Bagley for Donte and I’m not sure that’s the case. Yes it appears Detroit had some desire to get Bagley, but really it was the Bucks who basically gifted the Kings Donte while Bagley brought back JJ, Lyles and a 2nd rounder from Detroit. It seems to me that the Bucks needed to dump salary to bring in Ibaka and the Kings used that 2nd rounder to land Donte, so in the end the pick looks like it went from Detroit to the Bucks.

I mean the whole thing could have been done without Detroit. The Kings could have offered their own future second for Donte and the deal could have still been done sans Detroit and Bagley.

It’s almost as if there were two seperate deals and some tiny details of where a 2nd round pick is the only thing that linked them.

Anyone following me on this?

Dub_TC
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:01 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I would have been happy getting Lyles for Bagley, straight up. If they got Donte for a 2nd rounder … that’s just a steal. Either way, fantastic IMO.

AmateurNerd
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
February 10, 2022 3:23 pm
Reply to  Dub_TC

We almost got Donte for Bogdan Bogdanovic not too long ago, so yes, this is a huge steal, assuming DD can come back from his ankle injury.

rockbottom
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:39 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Bucks clearly had concerns and decided Grayson Allen was a better fit !

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 8:01 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Not really, the Bucks attempted and failed to come to an agreement on an extension with DD first. Since he was likely to receive more in FA than they were willing to pay meant they would have lost him anyway. That’s when they traded for Allen and signed him to an extension instead.

DD is gonna be a RFA so the Kings have excellent leverage after his try-out/recovery period over the rest of this year and as result of still coming off his injury, DD is unlikely to receive a deal that the Kings can’t match if they want to.

murraytant
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:57 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Because Kings over cap, I don’t think they could have got Donte for a second rounder. The “Kings pick” that ended up in Milwaukee was not actually owned by the Kings- it had been traded previously. Kings needed 4 teams to make this happen.
Kings- at the end of this TDL did not give up any picks but did gain one from Pacers.
The two big names in this deal were MB3 and Donte- that’s why it looked as though an even exchange. Kings got 3 guys because that is how high Bagley’s salary was.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
February 10, 2022 4:33 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Hmmmm, but the biggest name in the deal was Ibaka. it would still be interesting to know how that deal got pieced together. It seems like there were two seperate deals (Bagley to Detroit and Ibaka to the Bucks) that didn’t pencil out so they were brought together by a few of the parties. I wonder how long it had been stewing. I also wonder if the Bucks contacted Monte, because they know of his previous interest in Donte, to see if he wanted in. Maybe the Clippers didn’t want or couldn’t afford Donte? He is the only tangible linchpin between the two other deals.

I’d love to know how these kinds of deals get done.

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 8:04 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I agree Ibaka is the biggest name, but I really think DD is the best player in this trade (when all are healthy of course).

SlamsonsRollerskates
Comments
Comments
February 10, 2022 4:30 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’m convinced (with zero evidence) that we got Big Ragu this time around because after the first debacle they owed us. That’s probably not how it went down at all. It’s just interesting that we traded Bagley for 3 players and, I believe, a second rounder. Maybe Monte just knows how to negotiate.

Dub_TC
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:02 pm

The fact that Monte:

  • Got Sabonis
  • Got off Buddy’s contract
  • Got rid of Bagley

and didn’t have to take any bad contacts or give up any future picks …… amazing, amazing work.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 3:04 pm

History has not been particularly kind to the Kings when they make these kind of gambles and so the criticism and apprehension that we’ve seen since the trade has been well deserved.

You’re basing criticism & apprehension on things with which McNair has no connection. The franchise has had terrible luck, in pretty much any way that you can name, so it’s understandable that people would be nervous.

Criticizing the trade at face value? It seems to be built entirely on the premise that Tyrese Haliburton is going to become so special that his career will shame that of Sabonis. Frankly, I’d love for Ty to become a HOF guy. Whether he does or not has nothing to do with where Sacramento is right now, and realistically, for years to come.

Small sample size, admittedly, but the first games without Ty have averaged over 30 assists per game.

The trade as done is a trade you do if you’re in the kind of position that the Kings are. It changes the team, which is something that absolutely has to happen. The subsequent haul for Bagley dovetails with the Sabonis trade very nicely, and gives the team more flexibility.

And, you still have all of your draft picks.

The past is prologue, but it isn’t necessarily predictive. There’s no way to know the long-term results until we live through them, but this team is now a better one, has more options going forward, and when McNair hires his first coach, the sky may not necessarily be the limit, but I don’t think that we’re doomed to be trapped underground.

SierraSpartan
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
February 10, 2022 3:07 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

And, you still have all of your draft picks.

The fact that Monte was able to substantially upgrade the Kings to this degree without bumping up against the Ted Stepien Rule deserves applause.

Doing it without losing a single draft pick (and even picking up a mid-round second in the process) gets Monte a standing ovation in my book.

Ialmostmissthemaloofs
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:10 pm

Would love for someone to do a pretty detailed comparison of the players we sent out vs what came in and how good some of these guys might be for us. I’m not that familiar with a few of the new guys so not sure what to expect.
It was going to take a LOT to get me interested in watching a Kings game again… but with this many moves I have to admit I am curious. These moves feel bigger than the past 7 years of so of rearragning the deck chairs.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 3:40 pm

Happy to help:

Players coming in > Players going out

I know everyone isn’t great at complex statistical analysis, so please let me know if you have any questions.

Ialmostmissthemaloofs
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 5:22 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Oooooh. NOW I get it. Thanks Andy.

richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:45 pm

Sabonis is the best player the Kings have had in awhile. Some of the other players are likely to be or could be useful players in the rotation.

murraytant
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:09 pm

The TKH folks will do an analysis but here is a summary start:
Out:

  • -Woodard and Ramsey- no value
  • TT- minimal value- too many centers
  • Bagley-no D. Not happy. Latent talent
  • Buddy- no D and shoots a lot- can sometimes make a lot
  • Hali- excellent young player with potential high upside

In

  • Sabonis -2-time all-star, probably hit ceiling but it is a very strong ceiling
  • Donte- smart, solid, not spectacular but before injury could play all around game. Plays D
  • Holiday- started 40 games this year. Plays D. Not a great scorer
  • Lamb- no D, sometimes hits shots (like last night)
  • Jackson- athletic, not long for the Kings
  • Lyles- never made it as player.

Overall a plus because D is better, chemistry is better, redundancy of Fox/Hali improved, better rebounding. Kings will be less reliant on Buddy trying to bring them back. Even without Hali, more team game

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 4:14 pm
Reply to  murraytant

For now, yes.

Ialmostmissthemaloofs
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 5:32 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Thanks. That is what I was looking for – although really it’s just Donte, Holiday, and Lamb I was wondering about. I should have said it that way in my poorly conceived question. I’m familiar with Sabo and all of the Kings guys.

I know Sabonis is a big step up, and I wasn’t even mad about trading Hali because in the last forever or so that I remember, we have not really ever done a great job of developing any of these high potential young players and I think he has a better future someplace else. I also think Buddy (to me) is addition via subtraction because his streaky shooting and his insane turnovers drove me nuts. Bagley I would have traded for a bag of peanuts if offered – I just didn’t like him on this team at all.
So I guess… other than Haliburton, I don’t think we gave up anything that mattered other than trade asset value. I was just kind of curious as to what we DID get of value other than Sabonis. As in, what do we have in Holiday and Donte (who it seems has some injury issues.) I guess we’ll see soon enough.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 5:46 pm

Donte, Holiday, and Lamb

They’re all fine. Throw Lyles in there too. All guys that sit in that 6th-to-10th in the rotation type of range. Useful depth guys to have on cheap deals. Basically, the value we got beyond Sabonis goes:

  1. Unloaded Hield’s contract
  2. Balanced the roster with more wing depth
  3. Don’t have to deal with Bagley’s RFA
Last edited 7 months ago by BestHyperboleEver
Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 5:59 pm

Basically, the value we got beyond Sabonis goes:

Unloaded Hield’s contract

Balanced the roster with more wing depth

Don’t have to deal with Bagley’s RFA

I also would include how you could build the roster with Fox and Sabonis as your top 2 guys atm, but I think that’s quibbling. There’s an important addition by subtraction and roster turnover element that really matters here.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 6:16 pm

I hope we don’t get suckered into overpaying for DD. I kinda wish he was a clean expiring.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 6:23 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

What do you mean you wish he is a clean expiring? What the hell does that even mean? I really hope you aren’t talking about the QO…..

Last edited 7 months ago by Kingsguru21
NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 8:11 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I think Kings-Rebuild was referring to matching an reasonable offer made by another team and since we just traded for him the Kings could feel some extra pressure to keep the asset. I don’t see that being an issue because the decision ultimately rests with the Kings on whether or not any offer is worth it to match.

Last edited 7 months ago by NorCalKingsFan
BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 7:53 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

With his injury and down-ish year, I would guess we could retain him on a reasonable deal if we want to.

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 8:07 pm

Yeah, he is a really good player when healthy and he’s not injury prone.

ArcoThunder
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 11, 2022 9:18 am

Wasn’t DD having a better season than Bogi in most offensive statistical categories if not all last season before getting injured? That was my impression/memory of it.

If a healthy DD is better than Bogi than we have one hell of a return for Marvin

GorgeousGeorgios
Comments
Comments
February 10, 2022 3:16 pm

“In the basketball world, the Kings are guilty until proven innocent.”

This is what I have to remember every time I check the national temperature on any Kings move. Moving Tyreese hurts and carries potentially huge downside. Monte also used his biggest trade asset to balance the roster with another player who makes teammates better in Sabonis.

It can pay off and I’m intrigued, but until then I expect Kangz sticks and stones thrown our way.

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 3:32 pm

The franchise will always be doubted until they prove people wrong on the court.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 3:40 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Which, after so long, is certainly fair.

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 3:51 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

100%

TerzoM
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 3:21 pm

Monte’s Press Conference Live
comment image
Credit to /streamable.com/dey088#

GrandCanyonFunyun
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:36 pm
Reply to  TerzoM

This is amazing with sound

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
February 10, 2022 5:03 pm

Totes magotes amazeballs, in fact.

richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:23 pm

These trades make the Kings better in the short-term & I hope they’ll be better in the long-term. Hali has a lot of potential & he could be better than Sabonis in the long-term, but that’ll be tough since Sabonis is already a great player (it looks like he’s the best player the Kings have had in a long time).

RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 10, 2022 3:26 pm

When you suck as bad as this team has, a change is in order. That said, few teams roll half of their roster in 48 hrs.

I really don’t care how this year finishes out, other than I hope to see more basketball as entertaining as I saw last night.

As bad as the Lakers have been, I still think that they are at least a .400 team from here to the finish line, which means that the Kings would have to go 15-10 the rest of the way to tie them. That’s playing at a .600 (or 50 win) clip, and I just don’t see that happening.

The Pels added McCollum and have been playing much better of late. Look at their record after their 1-12 start – they are 21-20 since then. They will be tough to catch.

Ultimately, I see the Kings finishing 11th in the West, 21st or 22nd overall. They will wind up with the ping pong balls of an 8-9 lottery team – they were probably heading towards 6-7 before these trades.

If the Kings can play anywhere near .500 for the rest of the season, that would be fantastic for this bunch. The off-season would need to see the addition of another top level player, as well as difference making head coach.

I don’t know that I’m doing backflips over what the organization has done in total over the last two off-seasons and trade deadlines, but I sure am impressed with the last 48 hours.

And 1 – Turning a #12 pick into a player like Sabonis is how you start to turn a franchise around. Big ups to the organization for spinning a tepid late lottery draft slot into gold.

1951
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
February 10, 2022 3:32 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I mostly agree.

But this is some serious mental gymnastics in regards to the trade analysis:

Turning a #12 pick into a player like Sabonis

Tyrese wasn’t some unknown 12th pick. We had lots of NBA playing data on him.

Now, I think you are saying that Monte did so well with the 12th pick that it eventually turned into Sabonis and therefore Monte did some good GMing, and I accept that. Just wanted to point out that some people used Hali’s draft position to support the trade and that is a no go for me.

Last edited 7 months ago by 1951
RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
February 10, 2022 3:41 pm
Reply to  1951

I’m saying that we had the #12 pick in the 2020 draft. It yielded Domantas Sabonis. This is not in the top 1,000,000 of my controversial takes.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
February 10, 2022 3:53 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

That’s not the way to look at it and it won’t be. This comes down to Haliburton vs. Sabonis and nothing else. For the Sabonis deal to have any chance the Kings are going to have to surround him with a couple of more good players and I’m not talking about the BIg Ragu. They also have to find these players quickly which presents an additional challenge because the Sabonis contract time clock is clicking louder and louder as each day passes. I’d suggest to immediately work toward a Sabonis contract extension and hope like hell the ping pong balls pop their way in this upcoming draft. After watching these trade deadlines the last couple of years, it’s quite apparent Barnes doesn’t have the trade value many we’re hoping for and now Fox with that max contract may also not have much trade value. So the trade chips are draft picks and I wouldn’t depart with this years and perhaps Mitchell. Bottom line, getting the additional pieces around Sabonis within the needed timeline presents a large challenge.