De’Aaron Fox is off to a slow start this season. Fox is the highest paid player on the Kings, and he’s the player we’re hoping will take a leap into All-Star status and raise the Kings into playoff contention. He hasn’t looked like that player in his first three games.
These early struggles have led to strong reactions from Kings fans. Both in our comments section and on twitter you can see a chorus of fans that feel Fox should be traded. Some even suggest a straight swap of Fox for Simmons, a position that three games earlier was widely seen as a complete non-starter from the Kings side of any Simmons negotiations.
Personally, I am not worried about Fox. He’s struggled, no question about it. But this isn’t the first time we’ve seen a slow start from Fox. Consider Fox’s start this year in comparison to his start last year:
2021-22:
18.7 PTS 6.3 AST 4.3 RBS 5.0 TOV 1.7 STL
2020-21 (first three games):
19.0 PTS 6.0 AST 2.7 RBS 4.0 TOV 0.7 STL
The starts are nearly identical. Fox went on to finish last season averaging 25.2 points, 7.2 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 3 turnovers and 1.5 steals per game last season.
I understand that people wanted a leap from Fox this season. I wanted the same, and I still expect the same. A nearly-identical slow start doesn’t mean that Fox will have an identical year, just as it doesn’t guarantee against a worse year. That’s not the point. The point is that we’re looking at a three game sample, a sample size that I’m not drawing any final conclusions from. It’s simply too early.
Watching these games I’ve seen Fox struggle to finish in the lane, but I’ve seen Fox excel at finishing in the paint over the years. I’ve seen Fox struggling on defense this year, an area that’s never been an area of strength for him, but I am seeing more effort on that side of the floor than before. I see Fox’s awful shooting percentages, especially from beyond the arc where he’s currently shooting 15.8%, but I would bet large sums of money that Fox finishes the year shooting better than 15% from 3.
I understand anyone who is concerned with Fox’s early play. What I don’t understand is anyone who is allowing three games to change their preseason outlook on Fox. I’m willing to give it a while longer, but I’ll be watching closely.
https://twitter.com/SactownAnthony/status/1452699511529172993
Fat-Fox-Five
Seriously?
I’m not sweating his so-called terrible start, either. As I’ve said elsewhere, I do think Fox’s scoring numbers are likely to come down this year, mainly by virtue of having so many other guards in the rotation who can really light it up on any given night. If he can bump his assist & rebounding numbers up a bit, and be more effective on defense, I don’t need him to raise his scoring average again.
It has been weird under the new rules how the refs are treating everyone the way they’ve treated Fox over the years, and still manage to give him an even more thorough screwing than before. The man has earned respect, and he gets none from the league.
Funny how rule changes can so drastically change a player’s game. You have NBA Twitter saying harden is a washed player after the nets few games. Small sample size and players adjusting to the refs will make for a very interesting first month and a half of basketball.
Sadly, he’s not even close in discussion of best young point guards in the league.
Trae.. Better
Ja… bettter
Lamelo… Better
Aww, don’t be sad.
I’ve seen this in several comments…why is Ja Morant just assumed better? I just don’t get it. Sure his more talented/deeper team last year made the playoffs and he played well in those. Fair point
But the per 100 numbers, advanced numbers are pretty damn similar for their second years. Fox’s are in fact better in most cases. Not much comparison if you just compare Morant and Fox’s 2020-21 seasons. Morant, shot worse from everywhere basically, less efficient and had negative defensive metrics as well.
Now Morant may end up being the clearly superior player this year or next year…off to a great start. I just don’t think it’s clear cut he has passed Fox by and feels like a ton of projection based off a 3 game sample of each this year.
I’m willing to entertain reasons why Fox is better than Morant. I thought that Morant was better last year as well, but I can be convinced otherwise. Fire away!
Morant is a much better passer and shooter. Period.
Statistically speaking I don’t think that he is a considerably better shooter than Fox. I think Morant is slightly better overall on the offensive end. He is the head of a snake of a team that is much better defensively, and I think he deserves a modicum of credit for that. And he has played half as many games as Fox, so if we are playing the upside game, Morant wins handily there.
I mean, Fox 34% from 3 first two years and Morant 31%. Both low to mid 70s FT. But sure, much better shooter…
You can pick one. Who ya taking? That’s all you need to think about
Given two years behind I guess I’ll take Morant now…as long as you promise to ask again next month after Fox rips off 30/8 over a ten game stretch. Deal?
SN – “Jah’s a better shooter…”
Sees actual stats
Pivots entire argument, tells you how to think
Yeah, I just don’t think Morant was so much more impressive than FOx last year when you get down to the numbers. He did play great in the playoffs, so I think that is where some of this is coming from.
I think it’s one of those things where we are a 2 week stretch of Fox being awesome and Morant hitting a slump, that everyone is back on the Fox is better train. To me they are very even at this point.
I agree that they are more even than not. I give a slight edge to Morant, and I think that he has more potential for growth. But to your point, they are close.
If he’s not even in the discussion then why did you bring him up?
Fox is not the best shooter and defenses are crowding the paint and asking for him to shoot the three. He needs to refresh that mid range game instead of just settling for out of rhythm threes.
I would say what is concerning me most is the turnovers. 15 total on the season and 7 against golden state. Fox’s shooting will always be a little streaky but no excuse for not taking care of the ball. Fix that issue and he will be fine.
I think if Fox still pairing with Tyrese, Fox should play more off-ball, and let Tyrese handle the ball.
Once Tyrese pass Fox the ball, he can either drive or shoot…instead of letting Fox initiate the offense.
This is just not a very good shot selection from Fox by that kind of driving layup against those bigs underneath the basket.
I would have done the Simmons- Fox straight swap even before the last three games. But the truth is that Morey would laugh and hang up the phone on such an offer.
As I have noted elsewhere, I think Fox ranks roughly 12th as a PG in the NBA right now (your mileage may vary). He has passed a couple of older PGs as he has developed, but younger (NBA) guys like Morant and Trae Young have blown by him. As he enters his fifth year in the league and his $163m contract, the window for upside narrows, and his value-to-contract has disappeared.
Up until the Sixers-Hawks playoff series, Ben Simmons was regarded as one of the NBA’s absolute best players. An elite defender with exceptional floor vision on the offensive end. His Achilles heel is that he does not shoot from distance, and Atlanta exploited that in their series. It should be noted that Doc Rivers and the Sixers made little-to-no adjustments (for example, sending Embiid out to the perimeter and digging Simmons into the low post). Be that as it may, Simmons had a great season last year, and I feel that the issues of the playoff series have been at least a bit overblown, in part by hot gifs and in part by the ill-timed comments of Embiid and Rivers at the conclusion of the series.
Richmond for Webber would not have been a welcome trade had TKH been around back in the day. Trade for a weed smoking trouble maker that does not even want to come here? Are you nuts?
Artest for Peja would not have been a welcome trade had TKH been around back in the day. Trade for a weirdo malcontent that can’t stay on the floor? Are you nuts?
I think that Ben Simmons is tailor-made for Sacramento in the here and now. A smaller market and (to a fault) kinder media. West coast – it ain’t LA, but it’s a lot closer/better than Philly for him. A roster that has guys that can spread the floor at least a bit (Hield, Barnes, and what would be expanded roles for Haliburton and Mitchell). Perfect? No, not by a long shot (oops, sorry Ben). But better, and definitely a team that could immediately flirt with finishing better than .500.
For those that disagree, rest easy. The deal would never happen without the Kings throwing in a pick or two, and I don’t think that the Kings would (or perhaps should) do that. But if Morey called tomorrow and wanted to make the deal straight up, I would drive Fox to the airport and pay for the gas. And I like De’Aaron Fox a lot.
Agreed. The Fox love and the Simmons dislike are both over the top.
I don’t worry too much about his slow start. I just see things that make me believe he is very close to his ceiling, and that ceiling isn’t high enough for a franchise player. Hope he proves me wrong.
Then you need more players like Fox. Not swapping him out for one similar.
My son and I have been having this conversation since the idea of Fox (plus change) for Simmons became a thing. He is overwhelmingly against Fox being included in any trade.
If we’re not sweating Ben Simmons’ playoff collapse, why the tsuris over Fox’s three games that, while not great, were definitely not absolute choke-jobs?
If Simmons could be had for the right, or even fair price, of course you do that. But since he can’t, I’m content to let some other team overpay.
But I will say, Fox certainly has to be seen as more available as a trade target, not due to his play, but because of the guard talent on the roster. I’d think long and hard about Fox for Simmons, but like you said, it ain’t gonna happen. I’d be talking to Boston about Jaylen Brown, though.
I have no problem trading Fox, but NOT for Simmons. Find a way to get Ingram or Siakam or throw in Barnes and future first rounders and try for Tatum. But a head case who wants the ball in his hands and hasn’t proven he’s worth anywhere near 32 mill a year is just dumb, dumb, dumb.
Why is he a head case? Because he didn’t like getting thrown under the bus by the team’s coach and star center?
Lol, he does more that just “didn’t like”. Everyone there are headcases. It does not make Simmons less of a headcase.
It’s a simple question. What is it that he gets labeled now as a head case?
An NBA player passing up an open dunk in a playoff game certainly suggests that he was overthinking, afraid to get fouled, or any number of other neuroses.
We all have them, but denying the possibility as it relates to an elite athlete who can dunk in his sleep? Ben Simmons has a “thing,” and pretending he doesn’t isn’t going to get him back on the right track.
He failed to report to training camp. He would be a legend if he had continued to stay home until he gets traded.
Maybe not a head case but more of a baby throwing tantrum.
My opinion of Simmons’ actions, and I realize I could be wrong, is it’s all calculated actions to get traded while still getting paid. He thought not showing up would do it. Then he showed up but did drills with his cell phone. He didn’t comply with instructions and got tossed from practice. He now claims to not be in the right head space. It’s all just deliberate actions to get outta there. Once he is somewhere new, he’ll go back to being an average NBA teammate and perform well on the court for what he is.
So he wanted to not work, get paid and eventually get traded.
The “not work and get paid” is completely unprofessional. He did it to one team, what to stop him from doing it to the next?
No different than Anthony Davis , James Harden, or John Wall !
Well, there were some sorts of mutual agreements between these guys with their respective teams. There is none between Simmons and the 76ers.
Harden partied an entire off-season, gained weight, issued an ultimatum and barely participated until he was traded. I guess that could’ve been their “agreement” in
BKNHOU…Simmons spoke of mental type issues after the playoffs, it is not just something new. Logically he is going to have issues going back to Philly. It is Philly, they may boo him everytime he touches the ball, in his home arena no less. He is getting ripped everywhere, probably has threats against him because that is what we do now. He was thrown under the bus and I do not blame him for wanting out. Sure he brought some of this on his self, but the FO has botched this as well.
I am not looking to trade for him. Yes, Simmons is doing whatever he can to get out, but why would he want to stay? I don’t want to be somewhere that I am not wanted or hated. I think many things can be true at once. Simmons has a legit gripe about playing in Philly, some of which was brought own by himself. Simmons is doing everything thing he can to get out, and there is some concerns about him going back to Philly. For Simmons image and head space he needs out of Philly. I would hate to play for Philly. This is a mess and the situation could be examined further but there is plenty out there about the drama already.
You haven’t noticed a distinct mental problem of late?
I have. Or are you referring specifically to Simmons?
Please read
My first time reading his scouting report. I did say “baby throwing tantrum” before reading this report. Seems pretty apt.
And in retrospect, the very first red flag should have been his choice of college program. Why does a consensus top prospect choose to join a losing team with zero recent history of tournament success? Maybe because if he struggles there, he can blame it on the program and a lack of surrounding talent (“they keep doubling/tripling me b/c my teammates aren’t any good!”), and if he succeeds, he can take 100% of the credit (“I took a bunch of nobodies to the mountaintop!”). It was a way for him to be The Man while also feeling as little pressure and criticism as possible.
Read the scouting report coming out of college. He was considered a flake thrn
Tatum? Brad Stevens would hang up the phone as soon as Tatum’s name was mentioned by Monte.
Yeah, Tatum could be an MVP, I don’t see any possibility of him leaving Boston. Even for Brown, Fox is probably less enticing since Marcus Smart runs things very well, and Schroeder is Fox-lite at a fraction of the cost.
The Celtics and Tatum are not thriving. Fox, Barnes and two unprotected first rounders is not a crappy offer.
The crux of the not trading Fox argument is Fox would improve his 3 point shooting/free throw shooting. Looks like both did not happen this off-season. The complete opposite happened in the short term.
How big a difference likely 30-31% three point shooting vs none? How big a difference is 70% free throw shooting vs 60%? We are arguing about two guards – both can’t shoot but one slightly shoots better than the other.
Then we’re talking about two guards – one who is 6’3″ and the other is 6’11”, one who is about average on defense and the other is a DPOY candidate, one who is about 10% field goal percentage better than the other around the rim. One is trying to mold his game around being a cutter and improve on it (ala Westbrook) and the other is already an established cutter. One who has much better rebound/assist numbers than the other. We also have an issue of size on this team.
It is the same difference between 80% and 70%.
Same difference between 90% and 80%, same difference as 10% to 0% – 1 more free throw out of every 10 attempts. 1 or 2 points more per game on free throws – very negligible. Free throw percentage is a weak argument in a straight up Fox/Simmons trade, but I’m using it as others have used it as an argument.
1 or 2 points is a big difference in a close game. FT% is important for lead facilitators as they have the ball in their hands during crunch time.
This is why Simmons got frozen out during the Hawks series. He was afraid the Hawks would foul him to put him at the line.
Swapping Fox for Simmons is just trading one flawed player for another without a real solution. Simmons is a better passer but what good would that do when defense does not collapse when he has the ball? He would not make this team any better on offense than Fox would. I would give Simmons 10ft of space, let him shoot, let him drive, let him pass; I would just cover the other 4 players.
On defense, yes he would make this team better. But then you would want to trade Hali for Simmons because Hali is arguably the worst defender on the team right now.
Interesting take. You almost had me convinced, and then I came to my senses. Its not that Simmons can’t shoot the long ball. He can’t shoot period! I am sure some stats guy can give me the breakdown, and I’ll eat crow if he shoots at a decent clip from mid-range, but the eye test says he can make lay-ups and really close shots and that’s about it. Plus, are we all forgetting that he makes north of $35k/year for 4 years. Fox has trouble with the long ball – agreed. Something like 35%. But at least you have to guard him. Simmons , you can simply leave alone on the perimeter. Also, Fox is not a great free throw shooter, but he looks lie Steph curry when compared with Simmons. I will admit I am guilty of recency bias and Simmons’ most recent series against the Hawks has me down on him – well that and the fact he’s acting like a spoiled child right now. Maybe I need to watch some old highlights of Simmons. I just don’t get that his Defense is that otherwordly to compare him to Fox. As an example, before Fox’s raise, no one was talking about trading him for Mattias Thybulle, who is an exceptional defender, but a limited offensive threat. I think ultimately someone else will grab Simmons, and if by some miracle he comes here, I’ll support the guy. I just hope to hell its not for Fox.
Solid take.
I actually think that Simmons is the better offensive player when you combine his scoring (he does take 15-16 shots per game at 58% TS for his career – Fox takes more shots but at a lower TS%) and his passing ability. A lot is made of Simmons’ lack of deep shooting creating spacing problems, but his exceptional floor vision and passing ability offset that. Given that the Kings do not have an elite low post presence, I think that there is plenty of opportunity for Simmons to get a lot of at-rim opportunities, where he has proven to be very good. Net-net, I think that Simmons is the better team offensive player. And there is absolutely no comparison on the other end of the floor. Simmons and Fox are on different planets there.
Simmons makes about $3-4m more a year than Fox for the next four years. Simmons is at 4/$140m and Fox is at 5/$163m. I think that the difference in the contracts is negligible.
This is ok if you have a high usage scorer that collapses defense. If you don’t, you would just be passing around to players that are well-covered.
There are reasons to think that Simmons’ best position is at center, where he has real speed advantage against opponents. It is where he can be high usage.
One more thing, if you take a look at Simmons’ RAPTOR rating, LEBRON rating or RPM, he barely makes positive contribution on offense. He is a complete mystery player to build around. No team wants to find out how.
Talent is talent. Simmons is a more talented player overall than Fox. If you have some combination of Mitchell, Haliburton, Hield and Barnes on the floor, you have enough talent to space the floor on offense.
The narrative that Simmons is some sort of negative or dead weight on offense is a canard, born out of the whiny mouths of Doc Rivers and Joel Embiid. He is a talent when properly utilized. He is not perfect, but he is better than De’Aaron Fox.
Uh I did not say he was dead weight. I said he was only slightly positive. Basically he is neutral on offense. Fact is the 76ers is 2nd offense in the NBA right now without Simmons.
He looks a lot more Draymond Green than Giannis. Very tough to build around. Now if you can find a deal for Simmons centered around Hali, that’s much better.
I still think that he is better overall offensively than Fox. Better passer, better TS%, only takes a couple of fewer shots per game. I think that Simmons does a better job of making the players around him better. And the difference between Simmons and Fox on the defensive end is exponential – again, Simmons makes his teammates better defensively via his ability to carry a heavy defensive load.
Draymond’s a better baseline to baseline player than Fox, too.
The point about Simmons being Draymond Green is that you have to surround him with high usage scorers. We have none besides Fox.
He is better passer than Fox for sure. But how would you use him as an on ball creator so that he could lead a good offense? The 76ers offense ranked 13th last year and the Kings were 12th.
76ers best offensive year was 2018-2019 when Ben Simmons was the 3rd best player on the team. If he comes to the Kings to be the best player, expect a bad offense.
So we shouldn’t choose the better player because of the current roster? Also, sum of its parts. I think this roster would perform better at both ends of the floor with Simmons.
And best player is a baseline to baseline thing, not just a chucking thing.
Swapping deck chairs if you can’t pair Simmons with someone at least on the same level. You are stuck with Simmons and a bunch of role players, without cap space. You would go from good offense bad defense to bad offense good defense. Different set of problems.
Better player > not better player. And I am far from convinced that the offense gets worse. I think that the sum gets better, as I think that everyone on the floor would benefit from Simmons’ superior court vision and passing. Let’s be honest here – Fox is not exactly a floor spreader supreme.
The notion of a team coming off three consecutive losing seasons with Fox at PG (not blaming it on him, and not counting his rookie season) not making a deal for a better player because “deck chairs” is laughable to me. Especially when that player is only 1.5 years older.
And if it winds up being deck chairs, what have you lost?
then how is this not obvious to the 76ers? As I cited RAPTOR rating, Lebron rating and RPM, his offensive contribution is only slightly positive. Clearly his passing is not missed much when he is off the court.
He is great in transition. But the problem is what would you do with him in half court? He is a low usage as a p&r ball handler. Look at this. 2.6 possessions as a p&r ball handler at 23.6 percentile
https://go.nba.com/hvh3
Compared to Fox. 11.1 possessions as a p&r ball handler at 69.1 percentile
https://go.nba.com/ccs9
Also very low usage in isolations and post-ups. He is also bad in post-ups.
It does not matter if he can pass. If he cannot make the defense collapse, every one else is well-covered. If only he is high-usage and efficient in any of these situations.
Who do you think is the better overall player?
Simmons, not by much. But there are in the same tier as far as star level. There is no right or wrong one to build around. It is just up to the FO and the coach.
Thanks for the convo. I think that Simmons is a tier above Fox until Fox becomes elite in one segment of his game. But I respect your point of view, and time may prove you right.
Fox was elite at getting to the rim and finishing at the rim last year. I believe he was THE best guard at the rim last season
I agree on all points, but I still wouldn’t do the trade, and as much heat as Simmons has taken, I don’t think his playoff collapse is highly over-blown. It was pretty bad. He was shy around the basket as well.
Yet, even in his “playoff collapse,” he only had one game with a negative +\-. In the infamous “duck-Trae-Young” game he was the only 76ers core rotation member with a positive +\- in that game. He also had 13 assists, while Embiid threw 8 TOs for the second game in a row and Harris couldn’t hit water/boat for the last 3 games of the series. I’ve said it before, but I think Simmons choice to drop that pass off, while a bad one, is providing some very nice cover for other members of the org.
I think it might happen. The emergence of Davion Mitchell and the prolonged holdout of Simmons might make both sides willing to do a Fox Simmons swap.
Simmons makes the Kings better if used properly ! He is exactly what the Kings need and do not have ! Monte- get’er done !
I wanted to the Peja for Artest trade 3 (or 4? Whenever he went and made an album instead of reported to training camp) years before it happened, just saying. I remember thinking prime Artest would have gotten the Kings back to the WCF, IMO.
I also tend to think that our best foot forward in a Simmons trade would have been Fox instead of Buddy + whatever as well, just on the principal of spacing / shooting, etc. I also like Fox, but if that was the direction, keeping the shooter made more sense, its literally what Phila has been lacking on that squad since Reddick left.
I also think Fox will be fine, FWIW. We’re 3 games in and there’s a lot to figure out in the backcourt still but at least its not for lack of talent…
Was never a fan of Artest, between the fight in Indy, DV issues, starving his dogs, and other stuff I can’t remember today. That being said, he seems like he’s in a better place, seemingly showed genuine remorse when he screwed up, and I’m happy for him.
Day late, all but the fight in Detroit happened after he arrived, up until then I don’t think it was widely known he had legit psychological issues. Speculation: sure but nothing on the books. There’s a “documentary” about him on Netflix that was interesting. All but skipped over his time in Sac, but was an interesting look into his career. He’s def a different breed, probably a good thing he picked up a basketball instead of a gun as a youth…
Fox will get there. Also has anyone noticed we are tied for second place in the Pacific Division? Behind only the undefeated warriors?
Kings Herald comment section, mid-October: “FOXXXX BABY YEAAAAH”
Kings Herald comment section, late October: “TRADE HIM FOR THE TALL WHINY GUY”
Me and many others mid-October: “Trade Fox for the 4-time All Star, best defensive wing in the game, who wants to come to Sac.”
Me and many others late-October: “Trade Fox for the 4-time All Star, best defensive wing in the game, who wants to come to Sac… now before it’s too late.”
Fair enough, but I fear Simmons “wants” to come to Sac for the same reason he wanted to go to a bottom-barrel LSU program instead of Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, or UCLA– he wants the status and attention that comes with being The Man without any of the pressure that comes with real expectations. Just another way for him to coast by on his natural talent and explain away his shortcomings. Simmons is a heck of a talent, but he also hasn’t developed much (if at all) since he entered the league. There’s a reason his peers in Phila threw him under the bus last season, and it’s not because he passed up that one open layup that one time. That was years of resentment and frustration that boiled over publicly.
Dr. Fox
Or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Kangz.
Dr. Strangelob?
Dr. Youngman?
Maybe the old Iverson cuts can be used to get fox a running start with a live dribble towards the middle/top of the key.
Would love to see that
It’s not just about shots not falling, keep shooting, give it time. It’s that this team (and every team) needs a leader and facilitator. That part of his game doesn’t seem to have progressed.
The problem is between his ears – he’s not a smart player. His decision making has been awful. I still cringe at his outside shooting and free throws but it’s his drives into clogged lanes, bad 3 point attempts, and lazy passes that are hardest to watch. Tyrese and Davion are smarter all around players with more potential. They’re our future guards. We need playmaking and depth at the 3/4 spots. It’s time to trade for Simmons.
Fox has progressed remarkably little in regard to his BBIQ since being drafted. A predictable player.
Fox is elite at going to the hole and you critize him for doing the thing he is best at, but you also don’t want him to shoot 3s or FTs. You must be a wonderful person to be around.
You make a ridiculous statement about his IQ and decision making as if he is chucking up shots while off balance or double-teamed. If he hit the open shots he’s taking, are they still bad decisions? No, his execution is the problem, not IQ.
There you go being all adult like G. I have trained you badly, I fear. I mean I 100% agree withn your synopsis and tone of the piece, but you should at least freak out and run around the room like your hair was actually on fire. Sumpin! This calm rational and patient-like attitude gotta go homes.
Your Sacramento Kings: Remain patient!
It’s been 15, what’s five more years to give time for Luke Walton to figure out how to be a good head coach and to unlock De’Aaron Fox?
Yeah, but at least we don’t have to pay “playoff team ticket prices” until we make the playoffs!
…oh, wait. 🙁
We need to come up with a season long excuse though. The India trip was good for a year, then Covid was good for the next year, especially since no other teams had to deal with it. What’s the excuse this year? Maybe there will be a couple players traded, and we can roll with the “no training camp” excuse for this season.
Luke Walton is a terrible coach and depresses his players value by putting them in positions to fail?
Is it still just an excuse if it’s true?
My golden state loving friends would say it’s an excuse. It’s 100% true that Walton coaching downgrades a player’s effectiveness by like a full grade. I tried to explain to them LeBron couldn’t get the lake show into the playoffs with him coaching, but they just point out their own team with Walton coaching, then I just give up arguing.
The only thing Kerr told Walton before he went out on medical leave was, “Don’t fuck it up. Don’t do anything.”
That was one of the greatest teams in NBA history. I assure you, almost anyone could have put up good numbers coaching Kerr’s squad.
I hear you there. How Walton parlayed a Steve Kerr injury into a 6 year coaching career is uncanny. Needs a 30 for 30 or something.
Walton in the Warriors’ huddle: “OK guys, so here’s what Steph said we should do…”
Kayte is already using the only 4 preseason game excuse ! MJ was quoted once as saying winners do not use excuses and losers demand them !
Not worried, but the guy in the lower left corner … ouch!
https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1453076462991396869
https://twitter.com/nba_math/status/1453076462991396869?s=21
It’s a marathon not a sprint.
https://twitter.com/andrewdbailey/status/1453085057543917568?s=21
https://twitter.com/nba_math/status/1453089051498536960?s=21
https://twitter.com/nba_math/status/1453091562271830017?s=21
Davion’s position on defensive points saved doesn’t make sense to me. I’ll have to look into how that guy calculates this.
Agreed. Especially with Haliburton being ahead of Mitchell. Hali struggled terribly on defense in the Portland game.
About to write the same. I’m totally a stats/analytics guy…it is probably just a small sample size thing.
But if your defense metric is telling you Hali is a better defender than Mitchell in 10-15 games, then your metric probably has some explaining to do…unless there is some crazy on court reversal of what my eyes are showing me on the screen each night.
Which is also possible. Especially when we’re talking about inexpert eyes like ours. As much as the creator of the stat needs to try to validate and adjust numbers that seem out of line with more subjective analyses, we also should be considering the possibility that our amateur eyeball analyses carry all the usual human biases.
For sure. Which is why I tend to lean stats. But a prolonged sample def metric showing Hali a better defender than Mitchell would be certainly shocking to my eye test
agreed though it could happen with DBPM considering its inputs and how team-biased defensive stats generally are.
It’s basically an offshoot of DBPM, which has its obvious shortcomings and limitations. And like most stats, it’s meaningless in a 3 game sample.
The creator acknowledged that to Greg.
https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1453099851131064328?s=20
Holmes has got to figure out a way to stay on the floor, especially given the alternatives. You could argue that he and Barnes are the most indispensable players on the Kings right now.
https://twitter.com/SeanCunningham/status/1453093246993793027?s=20
I was actually hoping it was his shoulder. I don’t want him to be hurt of course, but that might explain some of his struggles.
But I think the main thing with the GSW game was he was forcing it too much. Call for a screen, drive to the rim into a double team and throw up a prayer hoping for a foul. Dribble around trying to penetrate then pull a turnaround fadeaway jumper. I do think Haliburton is a better distributor/playmaker. It’s unfortunate Fox isn’t more of a shooter to allow Haliburton to handle more when they’re both on the court.
Also, Fox is adjusting to the new foul rules. Once he adapts we should see general improvement. See Tim’s tweet below.
https://twitter.com/TimMaxwell22/status/1453020964933881857?s=20
DeRozan has been money for that Chicago team.
Good for the refs
I can’t speak with any knowledge about Fox’s shoulder, but I’ve never heard him use injuries as an excuse for substandard play.
It’s a slow start which is normal for Fox. Which is concerning because Fox needs to grow.
Same old Fox we have seen and he’s a great piece on a good team, but doesn’t make good teams great.
When has he played on a good team?
Never here but that would be his standing on one. Yet here he’s looked as the only way to salvation. But he’s really Mike Conley. Great player not an all star and not the savior of the kings.
Well, Conley is going to end up in the Hall, so I’m good with the comparison.
1 time all star ! Zero chance !
Yeah. I will certainly take the great piece on a good team at this point.
I think they have to as well. There is no Webber coming to save this team. It’s always just the same watermark.
They have had some amazing luck the last couple of years when you think about it. But more smoke and mirrors.
“Allowing three games to change their preseason outlook”
he was garbage in preseason too which is when panic began
My main concern with Fox is that it appears he didn’t focus much of his attention on shooting in the off season. That’s not a player who wants to address his weaknesses perhaps. Instead he put on a ton of weight/muscle.
Odd choice to focus on and another reason I’m not sure Fox will ever become a good shooter/off ball.
I do think he’ll get back to where he was this year. Just not sure he’ll make a leap.
Not to mention the extra weight makes me more concerned w injuries.
Continuously hoping for player transformations leads down a dark and lonely road.
The road is far from lonely – it is packed with Kings fans. Lots and lots of Kings fans.
I’ve learned my lesson. No more.
I expected a typical development curve and I still do. That would look like continued marginal improvement overall this season.
Does this include not driving into three people?
I mean, Fox is probably always going to have a bit of that “my athleticism will save me” edge. But yeah, I expect him to adjust a bit.
Fox has improved every single season so it’s not like I’m just endlessly hoping and never seeing anything.
Like Simmons, for example?
Fox has improved every single season.
Exactly. That’s where my lesson was finally learned. The amount of time spent WANTING him to develop an outside shot was insane. No more. He is who he is.
Which is why Philly isn’t going to get what they want for him in trade. What an ugly divorce that is.
I don’t know about “worry.” But I don’t think there’s any reason to feel differently about Fox now than you did 3 games ago.
Everyone here has gone MAD!
Gotta say, it’d be nice to have the Fox/Simmons debate knowing what Fox could do with Stotts coaching. Or any real coach. On the other hand, Fox did sort of pick Luke, so…
I’m not worried about the slow start after 3 games.
What worries me about Fox (and has always worried me) is he is not a great facilitator and his shooting mechanics are bad. I think Haliburton should be the primary ball handler and Fox should play off the ball a little more.
As for the shooting, he is never squared up, he keeps his left foot forward, he even does this on free throws. It creates a twist to his shooting form. Also, he shoots from the elbow too much, it should be more from the wrist. By bending his elbow so much, it creates a lot of unnecessary movement which makes the overall shot more complicated than it needs to be. Basically controlling and repeating a shorter, simpler motion is much easier than a longer, more complicated one. I have never seen him adjust this and until he does I don’t think he will ever be a good, consistent shooter.
I’m mildly concerned about Fox’s early play. I’m more concerned about Fox being that alpha dog we’re all hoping for. I’m not saying Fox can single handedly put the team on his shoulders, but if Fox is the guy, he should have a say in preventing the Kings from sliding into any extended losing streaks, which they’ve become famous for over the last couple of seasons.
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