The blame game began as soon as the Los Angeles Clippers eliminated the Dallas Mavericks from the playoffs. First there were questions about Rick Carlisle, which were quickly quieted by Mark Cuban. Then the grumblings started coming from Kristaps Porzingis. ESPN's Tim MacMahon reported that Porzingis is frustrated in Luka Doncic's shadow:
But Porzingis has been frustrated, often feeling more like an afterthought than a co-star as Doncic dominates the ball and the spotlight, sources told ESPN. Porzingis frequently made thinly veiled references during his postgame media availabilities, such as saying the "ball actually moved tonight" after high-scoring performances or stating that the offense didn't involve him on low-scoring nights.
If the Kings are interested in a big roster shakeup, as is expected, chasing a big name who has underperformed is the most likely way to do it. And Porzingis can be frustrated and blame others, but he's underperformed expectations. When the Mavericks traded for Zinger, he was supposed to be the second star next to Doncic. If he doesn't feel like a second star, it's likely because he hasn't played like one.
Yet Porzingis does remain productive, even if he isn't the player he's was expected to be. Porzingis finished this year with averages of 20.1 points, 8.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists and 1.3 blocks per game.
The eye test suggest there might be a little Whiteside in those numbers, though. Despite filling the stat sheet, there's a lot of frustration among Mavs fans, and a lot of skepticism from anyone who watches many Dallas games.
But a hypothetical trade of Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley for Porzingis works under the cap. There are other permutations that work as well. Buddy Hield could provide shooting around Doncic, which the Mavericks have been looking for. I'm not the fake-trade guru, as I often have trouble figuring out what each team might want or value, but the framework of a deal to bring Porzingis to Sacramento is easy enough.
If the Kings are looking to add talented players who are potentially undervalued, Porzingis could be an option worth looking at. In the end, if the Kings acquire Porzingis I'd be happy or angry abased only on what they gave up. Buddy and Bagley? Sure, I'm in. Buddy, Bagley and this year's first? I'm a lot less happy.
But that's just me. What do you think? Would you want to see the Kings trade for Kristaps Porzingis?
Look? Sure.
Touch? No.
Yeah. I don’t get the infatuation with that guy. Oft-injured, not a plus on D, meh rebounder, and doesn’t seem to try that hard to me, but he’s a big that shoots 36% from 3!!!
We have the same player. His name is Marvin.
No mention of his contract? ð¤
$31.6m
$33.8m
$36m player option in 2023/24, which I am pretty sure he opted into yesterday.
Sure. That’s why the Kings could unload both Buddy and Bagley’s contracts.
My take is that turning two large-ish deals into a single horrifying money-pit one to get a player with chronic injuries would be very, very bad.
Marvin is off the books in a year, and Hield’s value improves as time goes forward. KP’s deal would cripple the franchise in a way that would actually make things worse in Sacramento.
If he couldn’t excel playing with Doncic, what chance is there that he can flourish elsewhere?
Doncic took the ball out of his hands.
Doncic is very ball dominant, but Porzingis is not an efficient offensive basketball player any more. He’s too weak to establish position, too slow to get by anyone, and he has no handle.
Interestingly enough, he had by far his best TS% of his career this season – it’s almost an outlier. And his FGA/100 possessions was second highest of his career, so it wasn’t all a decrease in volume.
Tells you a lot about the guy that he’s disgruntled after this particular season.
This. He just had his best season in individual performance and team success. I think his comments are revealing.
This is what scares me: Since both got to Dallas, Tim Hardaway Jr has played about 1500 more minutes than Kristaps Porzingis.
That’s immensely bothersome above and beyond all the other stuff.
H E
C A N ‘ T
R U N
Unless you play him next to Boba- oh Carlisle, you magnificent bastard!
it’s debatable if “ability to run” is important in the nba
I’ll just edit to meh!
How do we edit comments? Is that something not available on the phone?
Dunno. It’s there on my iPad though.
Just to the bottom right of your comment, an “Edit” option will pop up after you’ve posted a message. But you don’t have a large window of time to edit.
Got it. Much appreciated!
I’ve never noticed the gear icon that is edit.
They’ve spent years and many misguided attempts at doing a running, fast paced team.
So, of course they’re going to push all their chips in on a non-running player.
Because that’s what idiots do.
Exactly this. I imagine Buddy, Bagley, and some sort of draft compensation gets it done, like a lotto-protected first. I think I do that as Sacramento, only because we’re trading two bad defenders for one, and one injury prone player for another. But it’s close.
Why would we have to add draft compensation?
Buddy is making $18 million the last year of his contract whilst Zinger is making $36 million. Double!
A Buddy / Bagley offer would be more than fair.
Would not be a Kings deal unless they gave up the future of the franchise.
It should not be close. Porzingis will be out of the league. He’s terrible on defense and not that good on offense. He makes way too much money and has had like 20 leg injuries (butt pulled number).
I’d trade Buddy and a second for Porzingis, if that works. He might be rejuvenated with Fox and Halliburton keeping the ball moving. Could even fit well with Bagley if the team wants to kick tires on that for another year. Plus, Porzingis for Buddy saves the Mavs about 9 million, and Cuban might appreciate the extra cap space; Dallas might even appreciate the extra floor-spacing and chance to replace Hardaway. Anything more though…I dunno. I’m even a bit reluctant to do the Buddy/Bagley for Porzingis trade.
I’m not terribly interested in taking on one of the worst contracts in the league in order to help Dallas, but yes, it would make the Mavericks a better team.
If Porzingis was, or were likely to become, the worst contract in the league, I’d agree. I agree that Porzingis could become that, and that there’s a big risk in taking him on. I also think he’s a 25-yr old who’s been good to very good when not injured. Might be the type of risk worth taking for the Kings, especially if Buddy’s role shrinks more and more between Halliburton and possibly Davis taking guard minutes.
For what it’s worth, Marvin Bagley has been quite good when he’s not injured, and his Per 36 rebounding numbers are identical at thirty cents on the dollar.
If healthy, KP is the superior player, and likely remains true if Marvin hits his peak potential. Since neither is likely to happen, I’d rather have a hand with Bagley in it than Porzingis.
Frankly, I’d rather have both. Porzingis played all his minutes at Center, so says BBREF, and unless we somehow get Mobley or Cunningham in the draft, I’d rather give Bagley a last chance at starting power forward. If we can keep Holmes, I’d rather have him, but I just don’t think Holmes is staying. I think in a vacuum that Buddy has more value that Porzingis at the moment, but I really think Buddy’s minutes are going to squeezed going forward. I’d be interested to see if KP’s stats are really empty calories on this team, or if he can be the floor-spacing, shot-blocking, 20 pt a night center we could use.
If you move Hield + pick to take back Porzingis, then it’s simply impossible to retain Holmes. It would add the $9.5 mil difference between ’21-’22 salaries to Sacramento’s payroll.
I don’t think Holmes is likely to stay, regardless, but I still wouldn’t want KP.
He could still stay for the full mle 4/47 but that’s the only chance.
Holmes next to zinger works fine on both sides of the court, move bags to 3rd big role
If we can’t keep Holmes, and I think we can’t with the current space we have, I’d like to trade Hield for a successor. There are three possibilities that I can see: Hield for Horford, Hield for Adams, and Hield for Porzingis. Porzingis isn’t my favorite out of that, but I do think he has the highest ceiling of that group.
I agree, when healthy the zinger is about as perfect fit next to bags as we could get.
Fox, wright
Hali, Davis
Barnes, (?)
Bags, (?)
Zinger, (?)
Top draft pick filling in one question mark, hoping one of our young guys develops for another one, then sign a vet for the last question mark.
Big if, but if bags and zinger stay healthy’ish, that’s the most talented roster we’ve rolled out in a long time
giantest “if” in sports
Defense.
Definitely would set some more historical defensive records.
Opposing teams would score 160/game against this proposed squad.
No. Thank. You.
Two bigs that leave for a week every time someone breathes on them wrong?
Porzingis would have to regain fo that he didn’t show this year. I think it’s just been too many injuries at this point.
He really hasn’t. RAPTOR has him 285th out of 362 players who have played 500 minutes. RPM has him 192nd out of 534 for everyone who touched the court. Without looking, I would guess that those numbers are a big improvement. But they’re not good.
It is his potential that erases the fact that he is useless.
I’m sorry but he’s not worth the risk.
The Mavs would have to do better than Buddy and a second for Porzingis. Future firsts and maybe a young player as well.
Considering how desperate the Mavs are for talent besides Doncic, I doubt they’d trade their remaining firsts and/or a young player. I’d be happy if they did of course.
After watching Zinger over the last two years get frequently injured, play with zero physicality when he does play, and vanish in big games for a team that desperately needs a secondary scorer, I can’t honestly think of many players I’d less rather have on this roster in terms of pure basketball skill.
This roster has enough no-defense, no-toughness dudes. I don’t want to pay the ultimate star of that type of basketball approach $100M over the next three years. I’m very confident Buddy will be much easier to move than Zinger in a year.
Toughness is just a construct of space and how to occupy it aggressively.
And Zinger is a construct that measures at 7’3 in height but somehow only occupies 5’3 of actual space
Yup, I am no Bagley fan but no way I trade him for Zinger, even if it gets rid of Buddy.
There is injury-prone and there is broken. I’m afraid Zinger is beyond mending.
Zinger is, like, the $100M ultimate culmination of nearly all the things that frustrate us about Bagley, just with less bounce.
soooo….no second jump?
No first jump either.
Zinger has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. I have no idea why we would want him.
Well if the Kings want to continue to build around “stand in the corner” then Porzingis is a perfect fit with Bagley, they both get one!
https://imgflip.com/i/5cf1f1
Word on the street is that there is little to no market for Porzingis. I suspect the price to pick him up will be even less than expected. That said, I’m not really interested either way. Maaaayyybbbbbeeee, you could get me interested if they Mavs were throwing in a couple decent picks, but the Mavs can’t trade a 1st any sooner than 2025.
That said, I was thinking that a deal built around Hield for Steven Adams makes sense on a number of levels. They’re close in age, offer similar overall production (obviously in very different ways. The Pelicans are desperate for shooting. The Kings are desperate for interior toughness. I’d love to see if the Kings could also pull Marshall and/or NAW in the deal.
Right, if the Kings are interested, then they need to really lowball the Mavs. Something like Buddy/Bagley for KP/Finney-Smith and a couple future firsts
I’m a maybe on the combination of Buddy/Bagley as long as there are no 1sts going to Dallas.
With that said, I don’t think Porzingis is going to make this team any better. Shuffling deck chairs…
Buddy straight up or no deal
Would love that, but the contracts dont work.
Buddy plus Justin James for zinger works
I would dump Buddy for almost anything straight up, but in this case “almost anything” doesn’t equal KP. Mavs need to thrown in multiple future firsts, especially if there is no market for KP and his contract is as insane as it is.
Playing devil’s advocate here: A Porzingis trade for Hield / Bagley does balance the roster a bit. It creates $2m in additional cap space next season, and if that allowed you to re-sign Holmes, a starting lineup of Holmes, Porzingis, Barnes, Haliburton and Fox would at least be interesting.
I probably need a future pick from Dallas, probably one that is lottery protected for the next few years. I don’t think that the trade would be a disaster, but it could be a whole lotta meh.
What if the Mavs added Josh Green in the deal instead of a pick?
I was never impressed with Green as a prospect. I haven’t seen him play this year, but I’d rather have a lottery protected 1st. Heck, I’d rather have a high 2nd.
I’m a BIG Josh Green fan, and I still say NO WAY to this
On the pod-cast, you guys spend all this time panning the Kings former ways, and then brainstorming ways to make all the same mistakes.
Yeah, I think the Mavs are going to have to attach a pick to Zinger if they want to move him. His deal is easily one of the worst in the league.
It’s a no-brainer for the Kings! If they need to add a couple 2nds, then do it, not a 1st.
Good move to have that huge contract on the books, whether he balls-out or not. At least then your trying. Good teams acquire high dollar contracts. When they don’t work out, replace them with other high dollar contracts (Buddy for Zinger). It’s hard to replace small/medium sized contracts with big ones especially when you can’t afford to break the cap.
Everyone recognizes the middle ground draft limbo. But what about the Free agency middle ground? Average contract=average players= cap room for another average player when when average contract expires. The Kings need to take some chances, spend some $. FULL STOP.
He’s 25!
Or we could spend on another overvalued role player (Holmes), and hope Groundhog Day works out different this time.
I’m not sold that Holmes won’t be more productive over the next few years than Porzingis, especially if we get NY-Porzingis, and not Doncic-fueled Porzingis. And that’s even before talking about contracts.
Um, no.
We already gifted the Mavs with Luka. Do we want to gift wrap the role players too?
Thanks Vlade! 😉
3 years @ 30 mil/yr for a guy who is hurt almost as much as Bagley? Not just no but Hell No!
Compared to Bagley, the Zinger looks like Cal Ripken.
Porzingis since coming back from ACL: 100 games (69%)
Bagley over same period: 56 games (39%)
(Buddy Hield: 143 games (99%))
I’ll take the non-Ripken with one year left at a third of the price. It’s that simple.
Bagley is more Billy than Cal.
KP will be our Blake Griffin next season. Like a Phoenix from the ashes!
I watched a lot of that Dallas-LAC series (hoping LAC lost cuz fuck LA teams). I wouldn’t take Porzingis unless he came with quality draft capital. It looked as if Zinger has not much else besides spot up 3pt shooting. His lack of athleticism, movement and physicality is a major issue.
However, that Dallas offense was offensive. Sooooo much over dribbling and one on one play.
That Dallas roster is pretty bad, IMO.
They were 14th in 4th quarter ORtg among 16 playoff teams. Good defenses learn to slow down teams with one player when the playoffs roll around.
They need someone better than Porzingis as their 2nd best player, but even beyond that they need a lot of roster improvement. And Luka needs to work on his free throws and his fitness level.
They are of the teams I’m afraid is going to throw good money at Holmes and I think Holmes would be really good with Luka.
I don’t know. I would assume whatever bullets they have, they’ll save to add a playmaker that can share the court with Doncic at times and take the reins when he gets a breather. I really wouldn’t be surprised to see them go after one of the three FA wise men of Paul (after opting out), Lowry, and Conley.
I think they have that guy on the cheap in Jalen Brunson. IMO, if they don’t re-sign Hardaway Jr, they are going to need shooting to spread the floor for Luka and they are going to need a dynamic big man for the PnR. Holmes and Buddy make a lot of sense for them.
I can’t speak for what they think, but I don’t see Brunson as nearly that level of player. Even if he is, they need a lot more of it. They certainly need shooting regardless. But if I were figuring out how to allocate their resources, I’d be pretty willing to bet on Doncic and another playmaker being able to squeeze Holmes-ish production out of a cheaper rim-runner/PnR roll man and 40% on 3s from a generic brand shooter. I mean, they didn’t lose to the Clips because of the lack of a roll man or a shooter. They lost because they have zero answers for generating offense when Doncic sits or gets triple-teamed. Adding two guys that don’t generate their own offense won’t solve that.
I agree that Holmes is a better fit for them. And Buddy! Zinger needs the ball, Holmes goes and gets it.
Holmes= Ike Diogu with a push shot
No NBA GM is afraid of the Mavs getting Holmes
Not sure KP would be any happier here with Fox and Haliburton handling the ball than he is with Doncic pounding the rock as a supersized Westbrook. His role would likely be similar to Dallas and at his current contract rate, I would rather look for a floor spacing big elsewhere.
he might like our hospitals better tho
There is a Kaiser right next to the arena. I’m sure Bagley could give him a great recommendation of the local hospital scene.
Pretty sure that Kaiser is getting kickbacks from a morticians lobbying group.
He’d instantly get a sponsorship from Kaiser
In NYC he was a star. He was Randle before Randle. Now that he’s in Texas, he’s playing in the shadow of Luka. Very similar to Linsanity going to play behind Harden. If I were him, I’d head back East where he can dominate the competition. The West is rough if you’re trying to establish your brand given all the immense talent.
He like Randle on a losing team instead of a winning one ! Every losing team has a leading scorer ( see Kings ) ! Also , that was two knee surgeries ago ! Going East will not help him become a star unless it’s to Greece !
Porzingis reminds me of the Ralph Sampson trade many years ago. An injury depleted big man *star that best years were behind him years ago. I would lose my mind if we helped Dallas by taking him off their hands for anything.
great comparison
That’s a great analogy. Oft injured big man who can’t stay healthy and while he has skills won’t use the skills applicable to actually play the position he currently plays.
The only way a deal like this would get made is if someone has photos of Kings ownership/management in a compromising position with farm animals
I could not possibly agree more. You can’t take on a deal like this if it won’t make a substantial difference, and he won’t. All it does is take two manageable contracts and turn it into a single, terrible one.
Keep Bagley over Porzingis. Bagley is still improving, Zinger is declining. Bagley hasn’t been paid yet and may still be forced to sign a team-friendly contract as a restricted free agent (how many teams lining up to pay him $10M+?) Zinger is maxed.