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Let’s dive right in!
From kingsforaday:
What would you say are the chances that Fox’s level of play will be worth his max contract? What would he and the team have to accomplish to feel that his contract is justified?
Tim: The key to Fox’s max deal is not his play, to be frank. A player’s value is not set by production; it’s set by what he would be paid in the open market, and in Fox’s case, that’s a max deal. Now, if we’re debating whether or not the Kings should have maxed De’Aaron, or if they should have traded him, we should be looking at the playoffs in the next two years and a deep playoff run within the next three. If the Kings haven’t accomplished those two things in that time frame, the Fox contract won’t be looking to appetizing in a few years.
Will: The way max contracts are handled in the NBA today, you’ve got to pretty much hit an All-NBA to really be seen as worthy of that money. Do I see Fox as an All-NBA player at this juncture? No. Does he have the potential to reach that by the end of that contract? Absolutely. In basketball they say to pass the ball to where the guy is going, not where he his and I think this contract is similar. If everything goes well, five years down the road management can tell Fox, “hey, we maxed you before you truly took form, we’ve taken care of you from Day 1 with no hesitation” which could help with the next big deal he expects. I also think it’s a decent way to temper any early frustrations he might have at waiting another few years for a playoff berth while the Kings attempt to do it right this time.
The contract will be justified if Fox fully becomes the leader the Kings have said he’s becoming and if the Kings find themselves looking at a future of contention with him as one of the core pieces of that future.
From Adamsite:
Now what?
Tim: Now, we wait. Folks that believe McNair has done a terrible job because of the Bogdanovic contract situation, the lack of impressive free agency signings, and the lack of trades have a legitimate argument for their position. The segment of the population who like the flexibility of letting Bogdanovic, didn’t want to sign overpaid veterans, and who are still celebrating the draft also have a legitimate argument for their position. Personally, I’m in wait-and-see mode. I have no idea if McNair is good. I have no idea if McNair is bad. I’m going to wait for the Hield situation, the Barnes situation, and the Walton situation to be resolved before I start to feel strongly one way or the other.
Will: Now, the season starts! The Kings had a great draft, they’ve signaled they understand they’re headed for the lottery and have leaned into that and they’re attempting to get assets where they can. The Bogdanovic Bait and Switch was a disappointment, but I also am patient enough to understand that this is a brand new front office that had their one big move blown up at the last possible instant. The Bucks and Bogi had been a rumor for months and trying to recover from that deal to get value from teams with their own plans PLUS trying to get Bogi and his agent to agree on such a tight time frame was impossible. It reads to me like the front office has a sequence of events that it’s mapped out and those events involved Bogi being gone. Rather than rewrite their whole book in that 48 hour window, they decided to do the hard thing, let him go without assets and maintain whatever it is they’ve decided to do. I give them leeway on this first off-season with this being a tighter than usually turn around time to the new season as well as these guys are getting to know one another and the assets they do have. I’m at peace with this right now and I’m actually looking forward to see these young guys play and the value these vets have.
From Klam:
I’m curious to know how you guys were able to land Jerry Reynolds to become part of the Kings Herald family. Was it easier/harder than you thought it was going to be? Were there other people you had in mind if Jerry didn’t work out?
Tim: Landing Jerry probably came about in a different way than most folks think. We (and by we, I mean Blake) had lightly spoken to Jerry about doing some sort of show for months, but COVID-19 obviously made things difficult. During that time period, we had our temporary/permanent hiatus of the Jester’s Court, which created a pretty huge gap in our production goals. From there, we continued to talk to Jerry to gauge his interest, but to be honest, he was always interested in doing something for the site, simply because he loves our community here. It wasn’t a situation of trying to land some sort of star free agent podcast guest. It was a Kings legend wanting to add to our site, and us wanting him here, of course. The only other things we had in mind were internally produced shows by our staff here at TKH.
Will: Yeah honestly, Jerry has been open for quite some time to working with us at some capacity. He offered to do ads for us when we launched, he was willing to shout us out on The Jerry Reynolds Show if we wanted. He’s always been a huge supporter of this site AND the commenters and so he was more than happy to help out in anyway he could. Personally, I’m very thankful for Jerry being willing to do The Kings Herald Show as he’s the only man on Earth that they can put me with that I refuse to be embarrassing around. I have very little shame but I’ll be damned if my childhood hero is going to see me as a goober.
There were other people we had in mind and we still want to do with with those individuals in the future, but I don’t want to say who for the sake of those people. Their availability has been a question mark though so nothing past exploratory convos.
From RikSmits:
Are we tanking or aren’t we tanking?
Tim: I think we’re resetting. Tanking would have seen us trade De’Aaron Fox and hurtle toward 19 wins and the worst record in the NBA. My guess is that McNair will use this season to shed contracts and get younger around Fox, and he’s perfectly okay that a plan like that will cost us wins and grant us a great draft position in such a deep class of recruits. I don’t belive this will be a long-term, multi-season rebuild.
Will: Yeah this is closer to a soft reboot than a full on remake. We’re going to carry over whatever’s left of the fan favorites, kill off the older characters and slide in more age appropriate versions of them over time. This certainly isn’t The Process where the franchise valued young assets playing all their minutes and would have to do so for 3+ years. Sure, they’ll give the young guys more time and their will be a good share of dealing away vets for assets, but less extreme, less intensity and intentionality.
From FarmerGuy
Given how McNair has handled the draft and free agency, what further moves or strategy would qualify McNair as successful in his first year as GM(in your opinion)?
Tim: If the Kings can move Buddy and Barnes for positive returns without taking back horrific contracts, that would be a huge accomplishment for me. Outside of that, firing Luke Walton would be a huge plus as well. My standards are about as low as they can go.
Will: Positive assets for the Killer B’s: Buddy, Barnes and Bjelica or swapping/taking on heavy contracts for draft goodies. Emphasizing they want to play to their max contract player’s strengths, bringing in young players, G-League players, trying various young hopefuls out for fit in a system like that. Empowering whatever version of a G-League team we see this season to really streamline the system so that it fits with what their NBA team is doing.
From Hobby916
What potential trades do you see for guys like Buddy, Barnes, CoJo, Bjelica?
Tim: I won’t go into specific trades, as I do that enough and embarrass myself enough. Here’s the return I would look for in each transaction:
Buddy – Nice young player and late first round pick or late lotto/teens pick.
Barnes – Expiring contract and minor asset
CoJo – Expiring contract
BJelica – Late, late, late first round pick from a guaranteed contender (27 – 30) or a pair of second rounders
Will: The dream is picks for any and all of these guys. Picks first, young guys with some upside second, expiring contracts and second round picks tied for third. I think Buddy can be held hostage for two firsts from the right team, three if there’s injuries and that team is desperate to save their championship aspirations. Barnes could net a young player that might play themselves into a core position… but I assume it’s more second round picks or heavily protected firsts. Joseph can be had for a second or two. Bjelica could get a protected first from the right team, but I think he’ll end up as a throw in with one of the other names above to get an extra second or less protections on a first round draft pick.
From SMF-PDXConnection
What are you thankful for in 2020, after everything that’s happened and is still happening?
Tim: I’m first and foremost thankful for my wonderful family. I have a beautiful, caring wife of eight years (although we’ve been together since high school), a smart, handsome, and stubborn almost-five-year-old son, and my cuter than a button, hilarious daughter will turn two in just a couple of weeks. They’re my world. They’re my everything. They’re why I wake up every morning. They make me the man that I am.
Will: I’m incredibly thankful that the ones I love most have been spared from the Coronavirus. My parents are in their 70’s and 80’s now and I have a sibling who works in a medical clinic for underserved communities in Redding. Their resilience through this year has been such a relief for me.
I’m thankful that through savings and government assistance I’ve been able to keep a roof over my head. This virus took away my career in a permanent way all while I’m attending courses at Sac State. I’m very fortunate to be able to get by still with what I have and I couldn’t have without help and understanding from family and friends.
Finally, I’m thankful for this group of writers I have the pleasure to work along side and for this community as a whole. I only got into writing at the other site because someone I cared about had a dream, and I wanted them to see that dream fulfilled. Each preview I got to write for you all over there was a dream and the day we all got told the dream was over, I’m not ashamed to say I took some time to cry, took deep breaths and shut down for a few days while I tried to process what it would be like waking up everyday without my crazy second family. You all ARE my family. Whether its been losing that long time relationship, or losing four people close to me in a year, or losing my former future career and two of my best friends in that departure…. The best part of most of these shit years have always been you all. This team has celebrated my personal highs and been a cushion for my lows and you all have been right there with me, accepting my rants on gold jerseys, Sam Hinkie and Kobe Bryant’s death, giving me a chance to truly be me in a world that forces just about everyone to be something else. My life is better because of Tim’s terrible puns, Brad’s genre mashing, Klam and LaBradford fueling my beef with Greta Gergag. Shit, I don’t even mind Eddie41 trying to sell everyone on Lamine Diane for the #12 pick for a few weeks. I’m thankful for each and everyone of you and the subtle impacts you make every day on this weary heart. I truly wouldn’t be who I am today without you.
From AirmaxPG
A.) What is the exact amount of cap space that was secured by not matching Bogi’s offer?
B.) What do you see as possible uses of that cap space (i.e. bad contract with pick/prospect; free agent haha).
Tim: The answer to the first question is probably $0, at least for this year. As of the writing of this mailbag (11/26), the Kings have a decision ahead of them regarding cap space. They can choose to operate over the cap and retain the MLE (about $9.5 million) and the BAE ($3.6 million), which can only be used to sign free agents, or they can renounce those exceptions and operate under the cap, by about $7 million. Operating under the cap would afford them a little less cash for free agents, but it would offer more flexibility in trades.
B) Whatever cap space we end up gaining through letting Bogdanovic walk, whether that’s this season or in the next couple, will likely be used to facilitate trades. The Kings have two massive contracts that they need to move (Barnes and Buddy), so having a little wiggle room when it comes to salary matching will certainly help to move those deals along. They can also use current or future space to take on bad contracts for assets. In fact, the Hornets are currently looking for a team to facilitate a Batum trade in order to save themselves from having to stretch his contract, and the Kings could do some finagling to make that happen.
Will: I hope the Giraffe did the numbers up there for you because I am not your man for that. As for what I see that cap space being used for? It’s certainly going to be used for one of the flurry of trades we’ll see from the Kings in the next season or so. Tim mentioned Batum which would be something I’d like to see with a pick or so coming back. With this team in such a flux and the season beginning in a month I don’t see the space being used until at least the trade deadline.
From ArcoThunder
Monty has made several bad decisions in my estimation. Most notably letting 2 players that were the collective fan favorites walk for absolutely nothing. What hurts some of us even more is they were both easy contracts to keep on the roster and retain quality assets. They’re both outstanding teammates, high IQ, high character guys that could have both potentially been starters on this team as soon as game 1, December 2020 and they returned zero compensation with their departure. Can you find us any silver lining in these decisions that could help us keep the faith in Monty?
Tim: This may come across as a little harsh, and I don’t mean it to sound that way, but I’m thrilled that Monte McNair doesn’t give two shits about retaining fan favorites from a previous regime. His job is not to please the fan base or Kings Twitter. His job is to improve the team by the best means he has in front of him.
Looking at each player’s situation, we have no idea if Harry Giles wanted to return to Sacramento. It’s entirely possible that he told the team he hand no desire to be back and not to waste their time with a contract offer. It’s also plausible that McNair had no desire to keep a project big who is probably the least effective rim protector in the league. Harry may have been fun to root for, but his production on the court was poor at best. Now, I wouldn’t have minded keeping him as a young asset who could turn into a rotation player, but I’m not particularly upset if Monte wanted to move on either.
The Bogdanovic situation is a different one. McNair had to choose between retaining an asset in Bogdanovic and taking on the risk of poor play or injury in a devalued contract, or in moving on, avoiding all risk altogether, and obtaining some flexbility moving forward. He chose flexibility, and I don’t blame him. Trying to push out three highly-paid, long-term deals for average players was going to be a tough ask, especially if the Kings wanted to accomplish all of that in the coming season. Let’s not forget that he had an impressive trade lined up for Bogdanovic until the rug got pulled out from under him.
So, my very long answer to your question about silver lining is this – Monte McNair doesn’t and shouldn’t care about the whims of the fan base. He’s doing everything in his power to get this franchise back to the playoffs. Do we know if he made the right decisions? Absolutely not!
Will: I think the silver lining here is that McNair doesn’t give a rats ass what you or I think. I love Giles and Bogi. They’re probably my two favorite players in the post-Boogie era, but McNair seems to have an idea of what he wants to do and improvising/altering that plan because of that Bucks deal falling apart wasn’t going to happen. Am I confused or in the dark as to what that plan is? Sure. Am I glad he stuck to his guns and whatever their playbook is saying flexibility wise? Yes. Giles needed a new team after Vlade left a sour taste in his mouth by not picking up his option. I’m glad he got that opportunity. Bogi I’m more miffed at, but as I answered in another question here, I can excuse the tough choice of letting him walk. I’m not going to praise it either though.
Thanks for selecting my question. The returns on those players seem doable. Keep up the great work, gentlemen.
I never thought Giles was that good and I soured on him after all the work the training staff put in to get him healthy he shows up to camp out of shape. Good luck to him in Portland but I don’t feel one way or the other about him being gone.
Was he actually out of shape though?
Yeah, I never really saw anything to make me believe that this was the case. Sounded like a spin the FO put on it.
Thanks for setting me straight. The reports must have been fake news.
Harry posted a photo to instragram late summer showing off his ripped abs right before the Kings called him ‘out of shape’.
It’s more likely (and totally made up by me) that they wanted him to come into camp in a particular kind of shape, maybe bulked up for Center, and he came in in a different kind of shape, but dude was obviously in playing shape of some sort.
Understood.
I’m not sure it was totally made up, and I think there was some ambiguity about whether it was conditioning or related to physical therapy type work. What was clear is that there were some reports of knee soreness, and Richaun Holmes passed him on the depth chart pretty fast. That could easily be more of a credit to Holmes than a knock against Harry though.
If I remember correctly, the more detailed explanation was that he was MIA at all the offseason workouts, and not working with the Kings trainers individually either. That’s a bit more nuanced than out of shape. Who knows what the actual truth is though. It would seem weird to not exercise the team option for no reason though.
I remember that. I always thought that was weird.
Thanks for clarifying the cap impact of letting Bogi go. Doesn’t seem like great asset management on the Kings part. Basically it seems they were locked in on the Bucks trade and didn’t have a contingency in case someone came in with a better offer. Hopefully they learn from this. Agents can do crazy things, and it ain’t done until the deal is signed. Anyway… how do we best use that cap space?
I’ve heard the Batum suggestion, but it seems he has already been waived/stretched already, so that boat has likely sailed. A contender will likely pick him up at some point.
I was thinking of other bad contracts we could absorb with an asset, and I keep coming back to Wiggins. As much as I hate that deal… he’s a young player that helps the tank.
The Dubs last I heard were applying for a trade exception around $9M due to Klay’s injury. If that is approved, then maybe Barnes, Hield, and Whiteside works for Wiggins and Wiseman.
Gives GS a better chance at being competitive this year. Gives us a better chance at a very high pick, where hopefully we can pick up one of those elite wings (helloooo Cunningham!)
I’d love it if we could get the Dubs 2021 or 22 first as well, but that may be unrealistic in this deal at least…
Just spitballing ideas of how we could turbocharge the tank and become a real contender in around 3 years.
Please help me understand the details of your proposed Dub trade? The 9 mil is not combinable as I understand, It is also only for one year. It needs to be an expiring. None of the guys in your trade are expiring.
Leaving that out I assume you think we should get assets fer taking Wiggins deal? Similarly GS would expect Assets for taking Barnes deal. Add in they are holding Wiggins for a real MAX player, if he plays in the system he will fetch one at the deadline. Giannis for Wiggins, Minny 1st, Wiseman, and as many GS firsts as it takes. Til GA signs ith the Bucks or is traded that cap space Wiggins fills will stay put. I would love to see that trade it just doesnt make any sense for GS.
Yeah if GS thinks they can land Giannis, and are willing to give up all those assets risking that he will re- sign as UFA, more power to them. That would obviously take priority.
I count Wiggins’ contract as among the absolute worst in the NBA, so maybe we disagree there. Barnes is an overpay, but at least the amount is declining, and for the same number of years as Wiggins. Hield with the extra year at $18m not terrible.
That’s a good point about the trade exception; I’ll admit I don’t know much about how that works. The long- term impact on their cap would be unaffected, since Oubre is expiring. But maybe that doesn’t matter.
Oh well, back to the drawing board. Obviously it would be fantastic for the Kings. Wiggins would make for an excellent tank commander in the next two years with stacked drafts. The benefit to the Dubs would be the addition of three role players to help them win this year in exchange for a rookie and an albatross. But if the money doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.
I just discovered this site after many years over at STR. I really like what you guys have built on this site. Keep up the great work!!
The the preseason schedule being released and it beginning in just a few weeks, has the NBA addresses the travel and arena logistics during COVID.
I mean, it’s the elephant in the room coming into this season and cases are spiking. Does the NBA have a concrete plan yet for the season?
Relax Aneel….it was a sincere question by Adamsite. No need to downvote it.
Are you going to continue this shtick indefinitely?
Give me a couple more days. At least through Sunday.
So lazy. I’m disappointed in you.
Most indefinitely.
Oh wow!!! My question got selected. I feel special ð¤
put your reading glasses on I have a lot to say here.
First of all, I did not take offense to your answers. I asked the question and I wanted a straight answer and you both did that. So, thank you.
I agree, the GM shouldn’t give two shits about what I or you think. Thats an even worse indicator that he’s not good at this job.
No bull, I don’t know if Monty is good or not yet. He’s had a rough start in my opinion but I can’t claim to know he’s Vlade 2.0 just yet.
What I do know is he let two blatantly talented players and exceptional teammates walk out the door for absolutely nothing. One of which the franchise already invested (I’m guessing upwards of 20 million dollars) in Giles and had just reached the critical point of finally receiving a return on that investment. The overt miss management of that asset layered with the large investment in his growth is simply disgraceful. Vlade caused the problem and I would argue, he got fired for it.
The exact player and their fit on the team isn’t a factor at this point. It was a huge mistake made over a small name (Giles). I think it was the straw that broke the camels back for Vivek and company. Vlade made a choice to throw 20 million dollars of someone else’s money down the toilet. If I were an owner I’d be boiling over that move. They trusted Vlade when he selected Giles as a huge development project. Vlade then turned around and slapped them in the face with that trust right at the point of fruition. He alone is responsible for that. 100%.
We all witnessed the reaction throughout local media and even national media when the news was released that Vlade didn’t extend Giles. It was criticized by everyone including some within Kings management. As Kings fans we’re used to being spoon fed Kings propaganda and the orchestrated front office team work of throwing players under the bus the moment a trade rumor pops up. Surprisingly that didnt happen with the Giles contract situation. There was a narrative Vlade and his staff were trying to spin to the media in his back pocket but surprisingly didn’t bite this time. The decision was so stupid even they could dismiss it as us fans just don’t get it. The kings media that typically goes right along with the bull shit didn’t go there on this one. People got upset about the bone headed move but not because they all thought Giles was the next Michael Jordan. It’s because there is still so much more upside with Giles and the investments up to that moment had been so extreme. I don’t know of anyone that supported Vlade’s decision then or now.
After seeing Giles sign his new minimum contract we can clearly see that it was infact possible for us to keep him when we were being told by the media it was now impossible because of Vlade’s stupidity. He’s definitely going to get an offer that we can’t legally match. Sadly Kings fans, say goodbye to Harry Giles.
If the overwhelming majority agree that the Giles decision Vlade made was terrible and you can actually fix that mistake by simply having an adult conversation and opening up your check book then you do that. Especially when it’s for a better deal then what you anticipated. I see this choice by Monty (and the front office / ownership) to not force a reinvestment in Harry Giles as an egregious failure.
Giles could very well be a scrub for the rest of his career and this move or lack there of by Monty won’t seem so terrible.
However, this was an abundantly logical decision to make and the illogical choice was made.
Again.
For me, when logic is staring you down and you choose to go illogical, I’m not cool with that. Example A: Luca Doncic. Or how about letting Isaiah Thomas walk for nothing? Or failing to trade Big Cuz a year earlier? Or signing Matt Barnes the day after you say character matters, not firing a head coach that Jerry fucking West advised you to hire. When there’s a move that feels obvious and logical and it doesn’t happen I get upset. I can’t help it.
We’re all tired of Kangs and I know you can all relate to that even if you don’t completely agree with me on this topic.
You might be surprised to hear this but after stewing over this for the last 2 days I’m less offended by the Bogi situation then the Giles contract.
The cost of fixing the Giles problem = An adult conversation and a small check that barely dents the salary cap.
The cost of fixing the Bogi situation = a whole lot of stuff, some things that are easy to work with and some that are not. Monty, meet Rock and his good friend Mr. Hard Place. Big amounts of money, long commitment to a middle aged player, injury history, tradability of buddy, value to contract, etcetera, etcetera. There are lots of factors to consider and I get that. My preference for which player to keep or ship out is not necessarily the right one (even though it is ð). I’m capable of being realistic here, I know there’s a lot more nuance that is way beyond my depth as a GM for a sports franchise. There’s a simplicity to what I do know though. Clearly I’m having a hard time dismissing the negatives of losing a player so desirable around the league for zilch. The lack of obvious logic (seemingly) behind that decision is what got me all fired up and still has me fuming from the ears. I’m slowly cooling down and hoping to move forward soon but I’m not there just yet.
The behavior by Buddy Hield through his passive aggressive tweets has me completely fed up. My excitement for this team has been completely drained by buddy’s bull shit, baby attitude. I think it’s highly likely the Buddy bull shit is what caused my initial explosion over the Bogi /Buddy decision and my strong preference for shipping Hield out of town.
Logically, any deal involving Buddy I see netting a return of substantial assets. Keeping Bogi and canning Buddy is multi layered in my eyes. Not only would we have gained future assets by dealing Buddy, we no longer have to give minutes to a player that makes Shaqtin a fool mistakes on a quarter to quarter basis. The cherry on top is we’d be shipping that garbage out and retaining a player that’s way more qualified to lead a group of young guards and set a good example of how to be a pro.
I can’t help but think of this Bogi /buddy situation as choosing one over the other. When the new GM (I was so excited about) made what I saw as the obviously wrong decision, my Vlade PTSD kicked in. I don’t see the Logic in Buddy > Bogi, that’s why I am so frustrated by the whole process surrounding these two players.
Buddy Hield can eat dirt. I’m over it. His behavior has completely destroyed his likability for me. I can no longer root for the guy. I don’t respect people who behave the way he is. You are a hired employee, do the job you get paid ridiculous amounts of money to do. As Our franchise hero Jerry Reynolds said in the post draft pod cast, Buddy is more than welcome to have thoughts and keep them to himself. Somebody should tell him that.
Thank you for being you Jerry!
Go Kings!!!!
I’m saying goodbye to you all for now. I’m done commenting on the Kings and Monty and Buddy and Bogi until the games start. It’s not good for my health. ð
I’ve lost my purple colored glasses. I asked Santa for a new pair so I should be ready to bring the thunder come game 1. Hopefully I can summon my overly optimistic irrational support for this shit show come December 25th.
Looking forward to seeing you all then.
I couldn’t get past the second paragraph about Giles being the straw for Vivek and Co. I barely made it past “blatantly talented,” because honestly, if Giles was so blatantly talented I’d like to see where was it represented in the box scores. Seriously.
I liked Giles. He had ok offense and terrible defense and a lot of work to be a viable rotation player, much less a starter and I was ok with that at the price we were paying him. But that’s not why Vivek fired Vlade and I doubt it had much to do with it all. The Kings were really bad in the bubble and had nothing going for them, and Vlade’s off season moves speak for themselves. That’s the broken camel back, the straw, the whole enchilada, etc. al. Vlade would have had to make the playoffs to keep his job past the season and even then, I’m doubtful he would have made it past next season. His off season work has been borderline atrocious.
I draw parallels between letting Giles go and letting Seth Curry go. Fans felt strongly about both. Both were let go …Curry has had a decent career as a role player.
We’ll see what happens to Giles.
Im sure one or more will point out the 300 differences between the 2 but the above is just my opinion.
“a decent career as a role player” who was on a decent contract who was traded for an extremely good role player on an extremely bad contract (Josh Richardson). Good GMs find a way to extract value from every asset.
I know Giles case was different due to the limitations imposed from Vlade passing on his option, but not getting anything for Bogi was horrible and if he wasn’t recently hired, would be a fire-able offense IMO.
Same thing with Ainge in Boston, if he hadn’t built all the goodwill over the last few years, he might have been fired for mishandling the Hayward trade and his general inability to do anything with all those assets he acquired. Ainge is probably one more mistake away from being canned, despite Boston’s success in recent years. Assets like Bogi & Hayward are worth something, its like throwing away several million dollars of the owner’s money when you let them walk.
You can’t let players leave for nothing when you have other options.
Have you seen the woj tweet saying boston and charlotte are looking for someone to take on batum’s dead money to facilitate the Gordon trade? Can the kings fit his money with no bogi on the books?
No, Batum makes way too much (27 million) to do that.
The first picks that would come with him would he gold. It’s too bad.
IMO Charlotte and Boston are screwing around. There’s no way to open up that much space simply.
I suppose Sam Presti would take Batum on but I’m not sure he can after acquiring Horford.
I was talking about the Kings rescinding Currys’ offer and letting him go for nothing.
Curry has been a valuable role player on playoff teams ! He seems to be getting better and getting rewarded for it ! Clearly better than Joseph in my opinion !
Yeah, fans were also in dismay about letting Skal go. He’s now entering his 5th year as a pro, and is currently a UFA who has already played for 4 different teams.
Yeah the idea that Giles was somehow the straw that broke the camel’s back is laughable. I also don’t understand why people can’t wrap their head around the idea that Giles just wanted to leave regardless of the cost? If I were a player that was pretty close to being out of the league I would not trust this franchise to develop me correctly. I would want to be literally anywhere else especially if I felt the organization had disrespected me as Giles pretty clearly did when Vlade didn’t pick up his option.
It’s just business.
At this point Portland is in a better position and a better run organization.
Giles may always love the Sacramento fans but the fans arent the ones who sign his paychecks or put him in the best position to grow/improve/succeed.
Lose Walton wasn’t going to help him succeed that’s for sure. The team didn’t want him, and of course he was going to move on, I would have, you would have, *anyone* would have in that situation.
The Kings are bad at this business. Maybe Monte can fix that, maybe not.
I think one thing people forget is that NBA players can dislike their work environment much like anyone unhappy with their job/boss/coworkers.
They can be professional, like how Giles was always positive about the fans, but at the end of the day if he was unhappy with his work environment he was not going to re-sign.
FWIW, Not offering Giles this year under contract was the straw for me too.
It’s not like Harry’s going to burn up the league, it’s clear his knees are never going to get back to pre-injury where he was similar to Tatum in talent, but He definitely has potential to be a regular rotation player and can have the offense flow through him in stints, and who knows what the future brings for a guy of his high character and drive along with all that court vision?
We won’t get to find out here, and after drafting the wrong guy in 2018, then dumping a fan favorite for no reasonable reason (Whiteside is filling his roster spot BTW), I just DGAF about the kings moves until they turn this ship around. 15 years of no playoffs is just really old, and we’re stuck rooting for non elite players here anyway, so of course the Kings dump the fun one.
Barf.
Agreed Sacto! Add in that what happens to Harry on a well coached Veteran Playoff team, is in no way indicative of what would happen to Harry on a Lose alton team hoping for the lottery.
The simple fact is that we DID get something for Bogi (who I loved and would have preferred to keep). What we got is cap space that we can use (a few examples were thrown out above. It might not have been your preferred asset and might not end up being used well (lord knows we haven’t done so lately) but the fact is now we have some. So we should retire the “we lost Bogi for nothing” tripe. Great article!
Certainly true, with the caveat that it wasn’t much cap space. So we can retire the “we have 18 million in cap space to use” tripe as well.
Though it truly is $18m in each of the years 2, 3 & 4.
Well, sure.
Adding, it is highly unlikely that we will find a player as good as Bogi at that price. The more likely scenario would be taking on contract(s) along with pick(s) or young player(s).
You are correct, but I’d argue that most teams don’t attach picks with dumped contracts that are under $20M.
Warren last year. But to your point, an infrequent opportunity.
True, but that was a 2nd round pick. I actually can’t recall a recent trade where a player on a mid range contract was dumped along with a first round pick.
Warren was also far from a washed player, so he had more standalone value than your standard salary dump.
This is true, and to this day I still don’t fully understand why PHX made that trade.
It was a weird one, right? Here, take this legit player on a reasonable contract, plus the #32 pick, for nothing in return. Meanwhile, we were signing Ariza to a 2/$25m deal.
Wasn’t it to clear space to sign Rubio?
They made the trade before free agency began. As I recall they had acquired Oubre and then just drafted Bridges. Oubre was about to be a RFA, so I think it was redundancy of position and cap space. Still, it’s amazing they had to pay to get rid of him.
I believe so – and those are the types of situations that I think McNair is trying to position the Kings for. It’s a narrow needle to thread.
If you set fair trade value for Bogi at DDV, the argument can be made that the risk is not worth the reward of matching on Bogi (again, I would have matched). Atlanta did a good job of getting right to that uncomfortable number, with the bulk of the discomfort being a full four year deal (with trade kickers).
I think the no-trade clause was a big deal too. If you keep Bogi you do it because you believe you can flip him in a trade that will provide future value in excess of the money paid to Bogi up until the trade is made (plus the cost of taking back negative assets to make the salaries work). I think that’s not that hard to do if you have 28 teams to work with. It gets a lot harder if Bogi essentially gets to sign off on the trade.
The Bucks deal made sense because the Kings could just buy out Ilyasova. DD alone provides production in excess of his cost controlled contract plus whatever the buyout amount would’ve ended up being. If Wilson provided any value in excess of his contract then that’s a just bonus.
Point being, I think this new front office crew is probably a bit conservative, and highly disciplined. They are looking at this stuff in terms of acquisition cost. Don’t buy something for X dollars if there isn’t a high probability for selling it in the future for at least X + 1 dollars.
Now my thumb hurts
It’s Monte not Monty and Luka not Luca.
Y’all (fans who think McNair made a mistake with our unrestricted free agents) Giles was an UFA…..
Monte didn’t let any of the UFAs go, they chose to sign somewhere else.
Even if an adult convo was had and we offered as much money as we could to keep Harry, maybe he wanted a fresh start.
I’ll agree that for right now, it seems the Bogi decision was a poor one, but perhaps that cap flexibility will end up being more useful than a late future first and/or less proven younger player.
I have a question. How unsuccessful will Grant Napear be with his podcasts and YouTube videos? a) Very or b) Extremely.
Second question: Should he just go work for Fox News? a) Yes or b) Absolutely
My podcast is actually doing pretty well, can’t say the same for my Youtube channel.
As far as working for Fox news, it’s something I’ll consider, i certainly have the look and personality to be the next bill o reilly. My resemblance to him is uncanny.
Goddammit Will. Now I don’t have a legitimate excuse to punch you in the nose.
Seriously though, hopefully 2021 works out better for you than 2020 has. (And that goes to everyone else for that matter.) 2020 has been a major league pisser for everyone. (I know that wasn’t the question.)
Hopefully we find the Kings entertaining this season. That would be fun.
I like you guys keep ignoring my questions about Lose Alton
Luke is integral to the tank. Wouldn’t expect him to be here after this season. Plus vivek can’t afford another coach right now.
I think an interim coach would be a better tank commander. Luke’s going to want to win games to audition for his next gig.
Alvin Gentry seems like he’d lose pretty well without sinking the trade value of all our players.
There are many things Luke wants. A bong, a beer and a VHS tape of Fast times at ridgemont high. Wins or competent basketball don’t seem to be high on his list of priorities. I’m not saying i want to see this team lose but I couldn’t think of a better coach for such a task. Dribble away buddy. Dribble away
I can see Luke in a bar in like 25 years telling stories about his record with the Warriors and how if it wasn’t for the Kings and Lakers front offices, then he would be a HOF coach.
if by next gig you mean Pepperdine or Cal Poly I totally agree.
go stangs
Jerry’s taste in Kings websites is impeccable!
Thanks for answering my question about tanking.
I don’t think I agree, though. It seems clear to me that Monte is setting everything up to get a chance at a high pick in the upcoming draft. It may not be a Process and he may hide it behind the Cap Flexibility mantra, but he is letting decent players go and bringing in end of the bench material instead.
And if he has a chance, Monte will likely ship off the better remaining players (Buddy, Barnes, Holmes and Bjelica) for assets and young projects at the tradeline, further improving chances at pinpong balls.
And he should! If there was ever a year for tanking, given the lack of crowds at games, the lack of money for the franchise and the abundance at the top of this year’s draft, this is the time.
Acknowledge it, embrace it, inhale the smoke of diesel and tap your feet to the rattle of the tank tread. It’s happening.
I agree. Just because Fox wasn’t traded it doesn’t mean we aren’t in a full rebuild. Last I checked we haven’t won many games with Fox. Gutting the roster around him is a full rebuild. We know in all liklihood buddy, barnes (if possible) and the expirings will be gone by the deadline.
embrace the tank, it’s been long overdue.
“We haven’t won many games with Fox” – so you’re arguing against giving him a max deal? The point is, there should be a time where a max guy adds wins.
IMO, this should be that year – if Fox is that guy.
It’s interesting you say that Perry….because I think Monte might be trying to do both.
Establish Fox as a max player without really building a competitive group so that you can possibly get the best player you can in the ’21 draft. That would be the best long term thing for the Kings IMO.
Tough to do. But at least a worthwhile goal no matter how difficult it is in the real world to pull off.
If he’s tanking it, he’s (to this point) doing it poorly. The only “decent player” he let go to this point is Bogdanovic, and that was pretty clearly a financial decision.
Frankly, the idea that teams are going to take average to slightly above average veterans and a few million in cap space in exchange for a high pick in the upcoming draft (that everyone seems to agree is loaded) seems…unlikely to me.
Perhaps he can move Buddy for a first rounder that’s lottery protected for a few seasons. The only other real option is Fox, and I’m not sure even that would get it done.
It think he is balancing things, to an extent.
On the one hand he did nothing to improve the team omn the short term, on the other hand he will be patient and not just dump players like Buddy etc. for a very low return.
This was a lottery team to begin with, and it did not get better these past weeks. I expect us to look considerably different (worse short term – hopefully better long term), after the trade deadline, when the the tank will have full momentum.
If we’re waiting to the deadline, seems that Bogi contract might have been as valuable as a few million in cap space.
Regardless, I’m waiting to hear from McNair what his longer term strategy is before I assume he’s tanking (or not).
Who are the can not miss super stars in the next draft ? I do not believe there are any !
No clue, I’ve just heard for a while that the next draft is “loaded”.
Aside from Cade Cunningham who is the consensus top prospect at the moment (check out the Team USA U19 Gold Medal Game where he shared a backcourt with Haliburton), you should check out Jalen Suggs (Gonzaga), Scottie Barnes (Florida State), Jalen Green (G-League), and Jonathan Kuminga (G-League).
Brandon Boston Jr. (Kentucky) is another guy to keep an eye on.
Agreed. This is no a tank. Tanking would have meant trading off everyone for less than $.50 on the dollar and using cap space like OKC did.
To that point, OKC had assets and traded them off for future assets. They are tanking properly. The reality is, however, I’m not sure that the Kings are much better than OKC right now. Although I’m not really sure who is actually on their roster anymore or what their rotations might be, they are still going to roll out SGA, Dort, Horford, Green, Ariza, and Hill. Those 5 might currently be better than any 5 the Kings might put on the court.
Danny Green went to Philly in the Horford deal. That would be quite the starting 5.
Ahhh, that’s right. See, I really have no idea who is on OKC’s roster anymore.
I thought you meant Danny Green’s evil twin!
Yeah, and I’m not saying he needs to be fully tanking. I’m just arguing against the idea that we know for sure what he’s doing.
What strategy would qualify Mont’s first year as successful?
IMO: If we can see a new Kings identity. How a fox led team will look like or at least take shape, with a great idea of how the Kings are getting to playoffs and deeper.
The roster is going to be gutted and won’t look anything like it does right now one year from now. so as long as forward thinking moves are made, I’d call it a success.
I agree. I was thinking more style of play rather than personnel, however glad that we are building around Fox and his timeline.
I think we have to be patient regarding playing style. That is in essence the coach’s job, and we won’t see it until there’s a coach at the helm who was chosen by Monte.
Copy and pasted the salaries below from a BabyGiraffe tweet. Tells us exactly what Monte is doing. Three of those guys are unlikely to be on the team by the time the trade deadline rolls around.
Sacramento Kings guaranteed salaries in 2021-2022:
Fox – $28.1M
Hield – $22.8M
Barnes – $20.2M
Bagley – $11.3M
Haliburton – $4.3M
Joseph – $2.4M
Until that actually happens, you can’t say he’s tanking. And I’m unconvinced that he’s pulling a high draft pick from anyone for any of those guys.
He may not get high picks, but he night get mid-round picks and young players that can help him move up in the draft if we fall oustide the top 5/6. (Still early, but this looks to shape up to be a draft with 5 or 6 guys in the first tier).
I suspect the rest of the league feels the same about this draft as we seem to. So I’m not optimistic. Maybe a 2022 or further down the road?
There is almost always someone willing to deal; looking for a quick fix or really eager to shed salary, or willing to play the long term
I mean, the Thunder only have one first round pick in 2027. That doesn’t look right.
Sure, but not likely for a non-protected first in this draft.
If that happens, I’ll gladly call McNair a wizard. Until then, I’m (again) not wholly convinced he’s tanking.
What the guys implied in the article above isn’t tanking, it’s rebuilding on the fly, which probably means late lottery carousel unless Fox, Buddy and Bagley make a big leap.
The current bank of assets makes tanking a fallacy – can’t sell out of an empty wagon. That’s why re-tooling became the mantra early on. Vlade’s poohprint is not going to be undone in one off-season.
I do think the Kings will find some trade value in Nemanja, Holmes, and Joseph. All three are on are solid contributors and are on workable/expiring deals. It is just going to take the right contender at the right time to send back an asset.
I’ll say this, with COVID, teams may look to really shore up their benches with extra depth. Positive cases and quarantines are bound to happen. Having guys who can step up in those situations might be more valuable than we realize.
Good point.
I also won’t rule out COVID as being a contributing factor for the Kings not matching on Bogi. You’re in CA & your arena is likely going to remain at or near empty for at least the majority of this season. Ownership may have had something to say on this matter. Not absolving McNair of the ultimate result of this – he knew what he was getting into when he took the job. But I think that income and outflow (and where this team is right now) were factors, factors that successful, larger market teams likely worry less about.
True that. Teams are going to be hemorrhaging money, especially in smaller markets. I’d wager arena revenue is a much bigger slice of the pie for the Kings income than it is for teams in LA or NY. That doesn’t even take into consideration all the other arena events (concerts, shows, etc) that generate revenue for the Kings.
McNair has created a pretty clean cap sheet with only a few guaranteed deals for the 2021-22 season. It may be by design of financial necessity more than competitiveness.
It would not surprise me one bit if the NBA is going to help by “bailing out” some financially weak teams this season. Revenue sharing may need to be scaled differently.
Truth be told, if things go on like this with COVID, it would not surprise me to see a franchise in one of the major sports leagues to fold.
It is kind of interesting to think that in a forced time of possible contraction, the right choice might be for expansion. If the NBA expanded by two teams at high buy in price, it may keep the fragile teams afloat through the pandemic.
There are so many rich people that I have a tough time believing that a major sports team will fold. However, I think the possibility of teams relocating is probably higher than normal.
Yeah, I would think all 2021 picks are off the table. I don’t even think Buddy could get you a top 20 pick in this upcoming draft.
Adam, straight up, I’ll be surprised if Buddy could get the Kings a 1st rd pick heavily protected in the next 3 drafts.
I think by the time Buddy’s value changes around the league yet again trading him is a matter of compromising your roster’s competitiveness. As crazy as that sounds (but whatcha want mayne, ah’m cray cray!).
I’ve read that 2021 & 2022 are supposedly strong drafts, but I haven’t read that 2023 is supposedly strong.
My feeling is that the Kings would be better off with a young player from the draft each draft rather than trying to get better by trading down and taking 3 shots like the Kings did in 2016. Sure you can be critical of Vlade’s evaluation skills, but the best GM’s don’t tend to take that many picks in the draft for a reason: It’s very hard to do. I’m trying to remember a team that’s benefitted from having that many 1st round picks in the same draft (especially without one at least in the top 10) and one isn’t coming to mind. Which is my point, for better or worse.
The bulls traded Nurkic (16th pick) and Gary Harris (19th) for Doug McDermott (11th) in 2014. The Kings used the 8th pick to draft Nik Stauskas that year.
Maybe Monte is using some actual advanced statistics and sees where the Kings can improve simply by changing play style, shot selection, etc.? He is known to be that type of guy. Or he is just trying to find market inequality for cheap guys that might contribute, like House did in Houston for a couple years. Idk, I guess we have a few months to see how things roll.
For all the talk of Buddy and HB, I’m not really sure I get why people want them gone. Short of wanting a better to dollar to value player or better asset’s. (I don’t see how any GM can make Buddy or Harrison into better assets. Presti, for instance, isn’t doing that. He started with better assets and thus has gotten more.) I’m not sure what that really achieves at this point. I would rather the Kings get a high pick in 2021 and just go from there. I don’t need to see an elongated bottoming out all over again for the upteenth time.
I guess I walk a lonely road (what’s new) on this one though.
Our own picks are the only picks likely to be high as we won’t get any high picks for our players, and that’s fine. Getting mid first pick(s) for Buddy is likely. Getting late firsts for Barnes, Nemanja etc is possible. Part of tanking is accumulating as many picks as possible to position yourself to make trades. There’s a new gm in town, I don’t get the pessimism about if we are really tanking. Just be thankful Vlade is no longer the gm and at least give the new gm the benefit of the doubt that he is competent and will stand up to vivek’s bs. That’s my position.
My position, too, if I’m being honest. But, value is value regardless of GM….and I think getting a mid 1st rd pick for Buddy is not something the Kings really need at this point. Ideally, the Kings draft Cade Cunningham (or whoever the #1 ends up being) and Fox really takes off in year 5 putting the Kings in the playoffs for a long time coming. And trading Buddy/Barnes gets a ton trickier at that point as they are a part of the solution even if it isn’t eminently obvious.
And if you fast forward 2 years you have a single year left on HB’s deal and 2 on Buddy’s.
I think a spectacular failure of the previous regime’s dating back to the later Petrie/Maloof years is the inability to invest in the current talent on the roster. Part of that is keeping competent NBA players (which I consider both Buddy and HB to be) and giving a path to young players to play themselves into the rotation rather than just hoping they sort of fumble around and figure it out (like Justin James to name a recent example).
This doesn’t apply to the De’Aaron Fox or Marvin Bagley’s of the world, you don’t draft them to play them bench minutes. You drafted them because you thought they were stars and it’s a process (yeah I know) to allow them to get there.
I don’t think an absolute rebuild is necessary and automatically jettisoning Buddy/HB is something I’ve disagreed with all off-season unless it gets so untenable you can’t make it work with Buddy. The Kings are overpaying them…..and I won’t argue that. But my experience of tracking these kinds of situations is that somebody on your roster is ALWAYS overpaid, sometimes by a lot, and sometimes by a marginal amount and I think HB/Buddy are overpaid by a marginal amount. (I realize this is a point of contention.)
Yes, you would like as much as value to contract as you can get, but sometimes you can have too many players like that and you end up losing them like Denver with Torrey Craig. It is what it is, but I think having viable NBA talent like Buddy and HB is dramatically more valuable than a mid 1st round pick if for nothing else you know what they offer. That isn’t sexy and doesn’t provide hope, but not every player on your active roster needs to provide hope. Sometimes you need something a lot more simple: You need players who play. And whatever else you think of both Harrison Barnes and Buddy Hield, they play minutes and games. There’s something to that.
Very sound reasoning Guru.
I think Barnes is a solid player may be a little over paid and buddy if used right as a solid player, I also think neither of those players rely on athleticism. I guess I’m just saying that I agree with you, I don’t know that we would get enough value unless it’s flexibility by trading one of them
Right now, I’m expecting around 15 million in cap space in the next offseason after adding the #1 pick and other small signings. It just depends on what the Kings really do with all the additional roster spots. But that’s without significant trades at this point that doesn’t add salary next off-season.
It’ll be interesting to see what Monte does with all this flexibility now that he’s got it.
I wonder if McNair just said I need a player to replace Len’s size, and I want a stretchy playmaking big, but not enough to offer a guaranteed contract. That would kinda thread the needle as to why Giles left. Maybe Giles turned down the unguaranteed offer that Kaminsky ultimates took?
Could be, I personally don’t think much separates Giles from Kaminsky, so I’m fine with it.
Tangent: the 2021 non-Cade top prospect I’ve been most interested in is Jalen Johnson. Check out his game from today if you get a chance.
The not gonna be a sleeper much longer pick is James Preston of Ohio.
Outta curiosity, how do you watch college games these days? Usually my eyes glaze over watching the games which makes it tough to know which players are any good sometimes just watching a random game.
I just look to see when the top prospects are playing and try to catch some of those.
I generally like to watch games that have top prospects playing each other. A Duke vs Michigan St. game made me rank JJJ ahead of Carter & Carter ahead of Bagley. JJJ was the best player in that game & Carter played better than Bagley (who eventually left the game due to an injury). Everything I saw the rest of that season reinforced how I ranked those prospects in relation to each other.
Bagley left the game with an injury? Imagine that
Tonight I just happened to put on the VT/Nova game and it was a really good game. Sometimes the random games are fun too.
I’m interested in watching Ziaire Williams from Stanford, would like to watch Kuminga too but that’s a whole different issue (G-League). Scottie Barnes of Florida St. is another wing I want to see. Mobley from USC is intriguing as a modern C prospect.
Preston had quite the game yesterday. The next draft seems to be PG/SG heavy at the top.
I guess that depends on how you catdgorize them. It’s pretty deep in most positions. But I think wing ballhandlers are probably deepest with Cunningham, Barnes, Williams, Johnson, even Kuminga has some ball handling upside. And Green is up to 6’6 and growing, so he may be in there too even USG he has more of a scorer’s mentality. Even down the draft you have sleepers like Kessler Edwards. All in that 6’6 to 6’9 range.
That’s true, their offensive positions do not equate to who they can defend.
Several of the PGs are 6-7ish too…so as long as they put in some basic defense, the PG/SGs could qualify as ball-handling wings as well.
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