Welcome back to Chainmail! Greg finally let me back into the office after suspending me for a week for being perfectly okay with LeBron getting his fourth ring. Let’s talk some Kings basketball!
Alvin Gentry was recently hired as the Assistant to the Regional Head Coach, and while much was made ado about the possibility of him replacing Luke Walton later this year, Carmichael Dave reassured everyone that Gentry was brought on to help Walton, not succeed him. With the coaching staff being fully filled out, attention has turned to Monte McNair, who has yet to hire a single executive onto his team. Sacramento’s new GM has also continued to push the message of selecting the best player available in the upcoming draft, while he also has some tough conversations ahead of him with Buddy Hield. The Kings sharpshooter has continued to stir the pot, recently liking several Philadelphia 76ers posts, while reportedly refusing to answer Luke Walton’s phone calls as well. In other words, the Kings have continued their tradition of being the Kings.
We also want to thank our sponsor for the mailbag, Carter Imports! Carter Imports is a Sacramento-based company that imports some of the very best Extra Virgin Olive Oil and Cretan Thyme Honey available in the world today. There has never been a better time to support one of our own than right now!
Now get to asking so we can get to answering!
Which current Kings are still on the roster in three years (at the start of the 2022-2023 season)?
Fox.
Period.
You forgot Giles FYI
So did Vlade. 🙁
Why do you think it is that Kings fans are only capable of interpreting any front office or player move through the lens of “will this be the thing that makes the difference between being in the lottery and winning multiple titles?”
Does packaging 35, 43, and 52 get the kings back into the mid to low 20’s for this draft?
If RJ Hampton keeps dropping, like I’ve been seeing in mocks, do you take him hoping mike Miller has fixed his shooting?
Outside of avdija, which foreign born player is the most likely to go in the first round?
Usually, no. In this draft and a COVID depressed market, maybe.
I think Hampton becomes a pretty decent pick somewhere around 25. So if he’s there at 35, then yeah, that’s an upside bet I’d be willing to take. He still may not be my favorite option on the board at that point, but I wouldn’t complain about it.
I’d say Killian Hayes is a lock to go in the 1st and could very well end up going before Avdija. Guys like Poku and Meleodon are likely to go in the first, but could fall. That is assuming by foreign-born you mean guys classified as international prospects that aren’t named Ball or Hampton. Because you have technically foreign-born but US developed guys like Achiuwa and US-born but foreign developed like Hayes.
Am I insane to think the 35th pick could be traded straight up for one of the cash strapped teams picking in the mid/high 20s in this draft? I’m thinking one of the Boston picks, Milwaukee, or LAL.
Yes, I was thinking the latter and not guys like ball or hampton. I’m higher on bolmaro over maledon as a first round pick. Poku needs to pack on like thirty pounds of muscle, but I like him like I liked bol bol last year. Mocks have hayes all over the place. This year’s draft will be interesting. I’m expecting a lot of trades.
I’m just talking about where I expect them to go. Not where I would take them. I would happily have both Poku and Bolmaro in the back of the 1st round.
The Raptors should draft Meleodon purely on his name alone.
Is the purported Gentry-Hield “connection” overblown? Hield was only with Gentry in New Orleans for half a season or so, didn’t play very well, and got traded for a giant toddler. Does the Gentry hire change anything re: Hield’s future with the Kangz, or is Buddyfingers still Most Likely to be Traded?
So it only took a half season for Gentry to increase Hield’s trade value?
I think at the very least going from Igor to Gentry is an upgrade in terms of their ability to connect with players in general. Part of the reason Igor was fired in Phoenix was his inability to connect with the young players on the roster. Will it matter? Who knows maybe Buddy just has his mind made up that he doesn’t want to play here. I guess the hope would be McNair can help the coaching staff put Buddy in a position to succeed, and Gentry can help use his relationship skills to get Buddy to put last season behind him, and treat next season as a fresh start.
When can we expect to start seeing Gentry’s imprints when looking at the on court product? Same question for McNair and his injection of analytics.
Not until at least January 2021.
Who is left as a Vlade holdover in the current front office? Training, scouting, etc. Do you think they will remain? Who do we think is a candidate for Asst GM, or is the field just too big to know?
Ugh, gross. The idea of Vlade hires still embedded like ticks in the organization sends shivers down my spine. It’s probably just Lyme disease.
If coaching counts, Walton is the holdover I can’t wait for them to jettison.
They’ve removed Anthony McClish and added Alvin Gentry from the contact us page, so I assume the rest of the people in the basketball operations section are still employed. Greg Stratton (Scouting Director), Gene Cross (Director of Amateur Scouting), and Adam Filippi (Director of Pro Scouting, Shooting Coach) are all experienced and have been with the Kings for at least a year. Stratton and Cross have been here for at least 5 years I believe. Colin Montague is the Director of Analytics. He was an analyst from 2017 until last year when he was promoted to his current position. Luke Bornn is technically still on the payroll, but he went from VP of Analytics and Strategy (I think that was his title) to Basketball Analytics Advisor. I assume finding his permanent replacement is high on McNair’s list.
they have a few regional scouts still on staff as well. Pedja Drobnak and Acie Law are probably the headliners since they both have previous nba experience.
Point being, they’re definitely understaffed, but it’s not like it’s McNair and Catanella have the front office to themselves. I’ll be curious how they handle Catanella. Technically he is the assistant GM. When Vlade was here, Peja outranked him from a power perspective, but they shared the same title.
I could see them hiring a EVP of Basketball Ops. that’s between McNair and Catanella, then a VP of Analytics and a VP of Player Personnel that are both roughly equal to Catanella. You can tweak the titles, but essentially Catanella will be the cap/contract guy, then they’ll have an analytics guy/gal, a scouting/roster guy/gal, and then McNair’s second in command. After that you’d hope they fill out the staff with scouts and data analysts.
to be clear, this won’t happen overnight. That’s just what I see happening over the next year or so.
There were rumors that Mcnair is going to add a former player into his FO. Who would you think that player would be?
My money would probably me on Chauncey Billups.. No source but just a hunch. I’ve heard a couple of months ago that he’s trying to get into a FO gig. Given his relationship with Dumars and Ken during their Pistons days I believe he might be the guy. Or it could be a totally different player that Mcnair used to work with in Houston.
It’s hard to really speculate unless you knew what position they’re planning to fill. If it’s a scout then it could be any former player really. I’m still hoping for the Shareef Abdur-Rahim reunion, but he’s technically qualified to get his own GM job. Shane Battier is VP of Basketball Analytics & Player Development for the Heat. Is second in command to McNair enough of a promotion to get him to leave Miami? Who knows. Anthony Parker (Orlando) and Pops Mensah-Bonsu (Washington) are both currently G League GMs.
Technically, Doug Christie could probably do a good job in a scouting/player development type of role. I don’t know if McNair wants to carry on the proud tradition of hiring former Kings greats though.
Every time I see the name Acie Law, I remember how positive I was that he was going to be a multiple time all-star. I would have bet a considerable amount of money on that fact.
Is Aaron Nesmith a reasonable alternative to play the Buddy Hield role on a team that is rebuilt on the Fox/Bagley timeline? Do you think he’ll be available at 12, and should he be the Kings pick? Also, is Jarett Allen a viable Hield trade option?
He’s a reasonable alternative if your goal is to replace Hield’s shooting. But simply replacing Hield’s shooting doesn’t improve the team or address our shortcomings. He will almost certainly be available at 12 though.
As for Allen, I think Hield makes a lot of sense for the Nets. The issue is if they retain Harris and then if they really want to be committing what would likely be $35+MM to 3pt specialists. If they don’t retain Harris, then Hield become an even better option for them. And they have a number of players I’d be interested in and they may be willing to move, including Allen.
Would love LaVert in Sacramento, but not sure if they’ll be willing to deal him.
This! Injury notwithstanding he’s a very good upgrade as a 2nd ball handler besides Fox.
0% chance they trade Lavert. Aside from KD and Kyrie, he is the 3rd player that I think the Nets wouldn’t trade unless they get a star in return.
I just don’t see how they make the salaries work. Buddy at over $24M next year. And Nets are well into luxury tax. If they were going to really go all in for this year, I don’t see why they wouldn’t just lock up Harris for roughly half of what Buddy is making.
Do you think harris takes a deal in the 10-13 million per year range?
I think Harris where get somewhere near half of what Buddy got, which should tell us all what Buddy’s true value is in the league.
I agree they’ll just lock up Harris. But I would expect Harris to be somewhere in the 15-18MM range.
That said, if they did decide to pursue Buddy they have plenty of ways to make salaries work with guys like DAJ (10MM, but unlikely to go anywhere), Dinwiddie (13.5MM), Prince (14.5MM), and LeVert (16.2MM) on the books. Along with Temple at 5MM and Allen at 4MM.
I would love to get LeVert as well. But even if he’s and, say, Dinwiddie are untouchable they could still build a package I’d be happy with. Even B/R put out a deal that was Hield + a 2022 2nd for Allen, Prince and Kurucs. Personally, I’d target Claxton in any deal with the Nets, but I’d be fine with that deal. Then I would move to trade Bjelica and Holmes who both should have positive value on their deals, and see if there’s a Barnes deal out there that doesn’t include giving up assets.
I’d be surprised if Harris got that much.
If Prince were part of a package, I guess it could work. Not sure if that would help the Nets, but hey if they’re willing go for it!
Being able to trot out a line-up of Irving, Hield, Harris, Durant, and really anyone could be pretty devastating. Though, ironically, the ideal 5th there would probably be someone like Allen. But if they could include a floor-spacing, rim-protecting C that lineup could potentially give up 130 pts but score 160.
Yeah depending who the center is, but I think that lineup might give up closer to 170 😉
I feel like Holmes will be a hot commodity as a good value contract to some contending team.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of teams that would LOVE to have him as a back-up. When I was building a deal with the Nets, I was often including him to provide energy and minutes behind DAJ on a short, cheap deal. Allen is the better version of him, but Allen is going to get pricey after next season, and I could see them wanting to get some value for him rather than paying him. Holmes also makes a lot of sense to be included IF there is a Horford deal in the cards since he’d be a great back-up for Embiid.
I’ve got Holmes going to Boston personally. The Kings can get in as a 3rd team in a Hayward trade. Maybe we can take a flier on Romeo Langford or Semi Ojeleye
Are we getting Hayward. Because he’s actually a great fit in our lineup. I did see a couple trade ideas from Hardwood Houdini the other day that were something like:
Hield + Joseph for Hayward + 30
Hield + Barnes for Hayward + Kanter + Theis + 14
Obviously, Hayward would have to pick up his option. But in the worst case scenario in the second one you’re trading for the #14 and a shit ton of expirings/cap reset.
I just think his game would be a great fit with their defense. Theis really does work well with their switching defense, and Holmes to spell him would also provide some more rim running which Boston lacks.
Out of the two trades you list, the second is more likely since I don’t think they need/want Joseph at all. I’d love to add Holmes to that deal, but Boston doesn’t have the mid-range contracts to make that work so it would need a 3rd team.
As a result of all of the terrible luck Hayward has had since arriving in Boston, paying just him $30 mil feels like a millstone move. I don’t believe that he’s a difference-maker any more, so if we’re going to shell out that kind of dough, I’d rather it was on two or three guys that will fit in with long-term strategy (whatever that turns out to be).
Even if Hayward was to come here and play all-world, are we then going to throw $150 million at him to stay? And if he should perform exceptionally, how does having a late-lottery pick in the next loaded draft help the team make a quantum leap, talent-wise?
I do like Hayward, but I’m content to let him remain as someone else’s problem.
I don’t think any expiring contract is a millstone. And I would suggest that his expiring and/or cap space next deadline/off-season would probably be more likely to bring back players worth being part of your long term plan than those two or three guys you spend that dough on this offseason.
If Boston gives us picks then yes, Hayward is a great get.
Yeah I’ve seen that proposed trade on the internet as well. I liked both options especially the 2nd one where we get Theis, Kanter and the 14th pick.
Our lineup should be young and getting high picks the next few years
He has no business in our lineup IMO
The path isn’t always straight. That lineup getting young is going to be a couple moves away in some cases. For example, you take that second deal and get a young player with the #14. Then you move Hayward next deadline as an expiring to bring back another young asset or two. It’s a process. Every player brought in doesn’t need to be seen as a core piece of the culminating roster. There are going to be transitional assets along the way.
Plus Hayward’s a really good player! People are acting like he’s this huge albatross contract. He was far superior to Barnes this season for instance. He could easily start for championship team (he’d be the Lakers 3rd best player, but obviously they’re unique). If the Kings could move long-term money for Hayward, plus pick up a young asset, then that seems like a good move to me.
Well, yeah. I even think you’re understating it. He performed better this year than anyone on the Kings roster.
Yeah I mean I probably wouldn’t pick Hayward in Ziller’s 1a/1b question due to the age/injury, but Hayward is the type of player I’d want to pair with Fox. He’s not gonna run in transition, but he’d make the half court offense a lot more efficient.
Bill Simmons on his pod said Hayward, Langford, and one of Boston’s 3 FRPs for Buddy.
Who says no?!
(also Zach Lowe said he thinks the Kings will try to make the playoffs next season)
Sign me up for that one. I mean, I think we still won’t make the playoffs, and we’ll blow our chance at a top 5 pick… but Hayward’s contract is expiring. Can flip him at deadline, and acquire potentially another 1st if he plays well.
Gets Buddy’s long-term money off the books and we can pick a shooter either at 12 or with a Boston pick. Plus keep Bogi.
12th pick = Get either Nesmith, Vassell, Saddiq. With the Boston pick either the 27th or 30th target guys like Bane, Bolmaro or Tillman.
I’d rather have Bane, Bolmaro and Tillman than any of the guys you listed above them.
Nesmith and Bey are good prospects for the 12th pick IMO. Idk I just like what they bring to the table which is shooting and defense.
My ideal pick for the Kings would be Nesmith or Bey for the 12th pick. Bane with the 27th pick (Assuming we can get a late first round), Isiah Joe with the 35th pick, Malachi Flynn with the 43rd pick and a stash player with the last pick.
I actually think there’s a path that has the Kings load up on some picks AND compete for the playoffs. For example, trading for both Hayward and Horford could probably add 2-3 1st round picks over the next couple drafts, as well as opportunities to use later cap space/expiring for more, and create a playoff worthy 2020-21 starting 5 based on Fox, Bogdan, Hayward, Bagley/Bjelica, Horford.
It’s a bit of the bargain Thunder approach. Target good, but overpaid players.
It sounds fine, but the drawback is missing out on a really high pick next year for a team that at best likely gets bounced in the first round. It would be fun though.
That’s fine. I’m not really a believer in planned tanks. Teams build without top 3 picks all the time.
I just don’t see how we’re going to get that superstar. Maybe we just get lucky with a late lottery pick, but those are pretty rare.
I mean, 5 of the 12 guys that got MVP votes this year were drafted after the lottery (I believe. I’m going off memory for draft placement). As well as something approaching 9-10 of this season’s All-Stars. You could easily make an argument that the best player on 7 of the 16 playoff teams was drafted outside the lottery (again, off memory of draft position) including one of the finalist. That finalist does have 2 lottery players among their key personnel. They were draft 13th and 14th.
Obviously, it’s easier to find a star with a top pick, especially in a draft with clear great prospects. But we’ve seen plenty of counter-examples.
Yeah I was speaking more specifically about the upcoming drafts, where it appears there may be a couple potential superstars available at the top.
History shows stars will be available later in the draft as well. But the odds do decrease. And I think the boom/bust potential increases as well. For every Giannis, there are probably several more Bruno Caboclo’s.
Using the 2020 All NBA first team as an example: Giannis (who was drafted 15th), but then Harden (3rd), Luka (3rd), and two overall #1’s (AD and Lebron).
Now, include the 2nd and 3rd team! Or last year’s All-NBA team!
Just kidding, I’m not denying that it’s much easier to find elite talent at the top of the draft. I’m just not sure tanking is worth a 14% chance of getting Cade Cunningham/Emoni Bates. You could win zero games and still only have a 40-ish% chance of getting a top 3 pick.
Yeah who cares about those scrubs on the 2nd and 3rd team 😉
For the record I’m still advocating for something like the Hayward trade above… I’m just stating the drawback would be taking ourselves out of the running for those elite guys in the drafts coming up (most likely).
If we can’t find a deal like that though, I’d stay start up the tank!
Yeah I’ve been thinking a lot about the best way to build around Fox. I think they either need to do a hybrid Thunder approach, or trade Fox. I just don’t know if Fox is down to be the good soldier on the team that won’t sniff the playoffs until the second year of his extension. If they have any doubt about his willingness to be the tank commander for a team that has missed the playoffs his entire career, then they have to trade him now when his value is highest.
Plus there is at least a notion that consistently playing on shitty teams can impact a young player’s development. I don’t think that type of conventional wisdom can be really proven one way or the other, but it does at least feel like guys like Mitchell/Tatum/Brown/Bam all seemed to grow throughout the playoffs.
I would do Buddy, Joseph for Hayward, Langford and their 27th pick.
Who did you talk to from the Nets FO?
BHE just revealed himself to be Monte McNair.
Nah, Monte has more hair.
S & M (Sean Marks to you) and I go way back.
But seriously, I was a HS basketball player in the Bay Area when Marks was at Cal. I used to go to a lot of games and attended their summer camps. He was there for the last one I went to when I was in 8th grade.
I’d bet the Warriors would love to have him. Part of me wonders if Barnes and Holmes for Wiggins and #2 could be the start of some kind of package.
I’d try REALLY hard to avoid Wiggins contract. Be that via including a 3rd team or looking elsewhere (I don’t see the #2 as an especially perfect spot)
I’m no fan of the Wiggins or his contract, but I thought it might entice McNair to have the #2 and #12 in this draft. McNair would really have to like Wiggins, because I don’t think his contract is movable unless additional assets are attached to him.
I’d rather have the 2021 MIN pick than the #2. Even knowing it’s top 3 protected.
Agreed. Would you that trade then? Wiggins and the 2021 Minny pick? What if you could still get the #2 if the Kings added the #12?
Barnes, Holmes, #12 for Wiggins, #2, 2021 Minny pick.
Yeah, I’d do that. I’d kinda hate it. But I’d do it. Wiggins is just SO bad. And he’d see the Kings as a chance to pump his Usage back up.
Then flip Wiggins, Parker and Buddy to Philly for Horford, Tobias and a future pick. One bad contract begets another, but at least you get a pick out of it.
WHY MUST YOU KEEP FOISTING MY LEAST FAVORITE CONTRACTS UPON ME!?!
For reference, I’d much rather have Horford than Wiggins or Harris.
As would I, I was trying to figure out a positive way to flip the Wiggins deal. Ideally I would flip Wiggins for Horford and Richardson, but I don’t think Philly does that.
Ya but Wiggins would give us the best chance at a better 2021 pick than Horford and Tobias.
I really like Nesmith and his my pick for the Kings 12th pick.. His injury history is a concern though (I think its a right foot stress fracture). If he can show that his healthy and he had fully recovered, I’ll happily grab him with our pick.
If the Kings wind up retaining the #12 pick, do you think that the player chosen at #12 will log more floor minutes for Sacramento or Stockton (providing that COVID allows for a “normal” G-League season)?
What is your position on grocery store sushi?
The avocado rolls at Ralph’s (L.A., probably the equivalent of a Raley’s in Sac) are plastic-y.
I’m wondering how grocery store sushi in a central place like, say Nebraska or Kansas, comes across.
Sushi at Whole Foods is actually pretty good. Does that count though, because it probably costs the same as a restaurant…
I didn’t like their sushi (but I’m a vegetablarian, so I only tried their avocado roll). I like their pizza.
I head straight for the cheese section usually, hoping to find free samples.
Seaweed salad (in the sushi section) is pretty amazing as well.
I’ll give it a go, thanks!
Love these questions! Most I’ve tried are pretty ordinary. RORDOG will have to let us know about gas station sushi.
Spoiler: It gives you gas.
I have high standards for my gas station food products! It must have been Perpetually heated for so long that literally life has a better chance of surviving on the surface Venus than the surface of my food.
(the one exception are those jalapeño cheeseburgers you can get and microwave at the gas station. Those microwave can cook a whole ass burger in like 30 seconds so I feel like any germs are irradiated in the process)
How old are you, do you mind me asking? I could have eaten any of those things back in my 20s, but just thinking about it triggers my acid reflux now. 🙂
Age is just a number, Otis (or 1951, should I say)
1951 is just a number.
Is that Dan Aykroyd from that one movie where he played piano with Digital Underground?
Hahaha! “Nothing But Trouble”
I’ve only got just a little more than a month before I official enter my 30s, but on my Dad’s side of the family we’ve had the slim build with overall good metabolism (which my brother and I got). Although in college I ate cheap, crappy food (and even when I started my first full time job I always bought the cheapest stuff), but I started watching a YouTube channel called FlavCity and now most of the stuff I get is of good quality (in terms of ingredients, not just nutritional facts). And three weeks ago I finally resumed strength training exercises at home after not doing any since quarantine happened in March. 🙂
I’m 39. I don’t really eat as much gas station food now since I’m no longer broke, but also I don’t really travel for work. I do really enjoy the taquitos though, so I’ll pick up a couple of those whenever I do get gas. 7-11 pizza is fine in a pinch. The ampm bbq rib sandwich is decent. At this point I typically just make my own RORDOGs at home though.
The funny thing is that I’m actually super consistent with my standard diet. I eat raisin bran crunch for breakfast, salad for lunch, and beans for dinner basically every single day during the week. So the shitty gas station food is just a weekend treat at this point.
And why do many of them use mayonnaise as an ingredient? I consider that an attempt by whitey to appropriate and deracinate Japanese culture.
Mayonnaise and ranch dressing: A sure tipoff that you don’t actually like the food that you’re eating.
The only mayo that belongs in sushi is the Japanese mayo you mix into the spicy tuna.
But it’s still better than using cream cheese.
Logged in only to reply. A plurality of Asians are allergic to dairy, so to get the sensation of cream knees, they use emulsions like mayo or egg tofu. Maybe that’ll help?
*creaminess. Sorry.
I liked cream knees better. Cool band name.
Just don’t google it.
Also, that’s Chris Webber’s nickname, no?
Concur.
Winco makes ok sushi rolls, but I also like eating instant noodles. So, take that as you will.
Funny you say that.
I do a lot of backpacking and on a long trip this summer I went cold soak (no stove). Turns out you can soak a ramen pack in a gelato container for thirty minutes and it’s perfect every time. Love it. But now that I’m home..
I’m eating Top Ramen again. All the time. I’m 50.
On the sushi. The gal at Bel Air makes it around 9am so sometimes if my timing is right I pick some up for lunch. Raw fish and rice, seems ok I guess.
If the Stockton Kings survive, will they be run by a dedicated FO or as an adjunct of the Sacramento FO? Is there a hint of any other G League team folding?
With respect to “it takes a village” in relation to any NBA team’s starting 5 players, who will be the top 5 coaches for this team next season? Is the coaching staff set or do you think more changes will be made?
What is your over/under on remaining games with Luke Walton as head coach of the Kings?
And will our next coach be cool with Gentry as lead assistant, since he’s on a 3 year contract now? I know he’s respected, but most coaches will have someone in mind who they want as their #1 guy/gal…
Over: Zero
Under: He is retroactively fired from the time that he first ran a play with Buddy at the point.
I’d bet the over, and happily lose the bet if that were the case 😉
For me the Gentry hire is just doubling down on Walton as coach. It’s highly unlikely Gentry is retained with new head coach coming in, even though he’s highly respected around the league.
I’d put the over/under at 82 and hesitantly bet the over.
I fear you may be right. With Gentry getting a 3-year contract, it makes it even more cost-prohibitive to dump Walton.
I’ll add that this isn’t necessarily my preferred outcome. My preferred outcome will never happen now, as it would have entailed ripping up his contract when the sexual harassment charges surfaced and then doing a real coaching search.
I believe Walton’s contract includes a team option in year 4. I don’t know where I saw/heard that though. Ham might’ve mentioned it on a pod or some shit.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a team option on a coach’s contract. Did they have so little confidence in him when they hired him?
I think they’re pretty common actually. Joerger’s contract had one. Walton had one in LA. Gentry had his 2020-2021 team option exercised before the start of last season.
But we can negotiate an extension before the option kicks in, right?
I’ll be in the minority on this one and say Luke will be here for the remainder of his contract..
Kings social media recently asked its followers to post a “random kings player”.
Who do you think is the most random player you could name from the Kings’ time in Sacramento?
There are so many to choose from .
The response on that post displayed a disturbing lack of comprehension considering the overwhelming amount of answers that included guys like Webber, Divac, J-Will and Peja.
Here was my reply…
Exactly. I felt the same way when I saw those answers.
I LOVED watching Dennis Hopson play. He had hops!
He was a lot of fun.
He’s my favorite answer because he played his final season (of, like, 5 or 6 as a pro) and then fell off the NBA map entirely..,
nice!
Color guy for Sixers TV.
By virtue of being a lottery pick, gotta be Papagiannis. It sounded like a world-wide owl convention when the pick was announced.
I would pay money to see Papagiannis play the role of Papageno in Mozart’s The Magic Flute opera, while eating a slice of Papa Gino’s pizza (Massachusetts, represent!)
This is a good one, if for no other reason than Trevor himself has a trio of “Who the fuck is this guy?” expressions on the card.
Another favorite of mine at that time!
We’ve seen the devalue of the center position in recent years, largely due to a relative abundance of replacement-level players on the cheap.
Is the same thing currently happening with spot-up shooters? (I’m thinking about the success of guys like Ben McLemore, Seth Curry, Duncan Robinson, Wayne Ellington, etc.) If so, how does that impact how this organization handles Buddy Hield?
Good question. I think you’ve hit on something on how the league values Hield. From what you just mentioned, I think a lot of Kings fans greatly overvalue Buddy and his contract may be a hindrance going forward.
Want to know a not so fun fact? McLemore shot better from 3 this past season (.400) then Buddy did (.394).
But Luke would want Ben bringing the ball up!
He would bring it up after it bounced off his feet.
Is a Myles Turner for Buddy Hield trade realistic? How does McNair get a trade like this done and how would this trade affect next years roster?
I keep going back to that one as well. I think it is realistic if the Pacers are also set on moving Oladipo. That being said I think the Warriors ring that bell before the Kings get a chance. It would not surprise me if Wiggins and the #2 are in Indiana for some kind of Oladipo and/or Turner package.
I think the Hield/Turner idea makes sense from the Kings POV, and in terms of role/contract/value. But I don’t really see it from the Pacers POV. If they decided to move Turner, I don’t see them looking for a 3pt specialist SG in return. Honestly, I think Barnes is a better fit for them. Though he obviously holds less value and wouldn’t likely bring back Turner on his own.
Barnes and the #12 for Turner?
It’s a thought. And I think in terms of 2020-21 performance it makes sense for both teams. But that would signal a bit more of a win-now path than I’m personally pushing. If I had more faith in Bagley making a big leap, then that would make a lot of sense. But I don’t.
Is it really win now? Turner still fits a youthful timeline. If Giles walks, he’d be the 3rd youngest player of the core and is easily more proven than anyone that would be available at #12
I guess you’d have to weigh the options of who would be available at #12 and the impact they would have vs. the impact Turner would have over the next 3 years of his guaranteed deal.
Yeah, it isn’t Turner. It’s the giving up of a high pick for a team that needs multiple high end players. That said, if I could see the successive moves that make up the larger plan, I may be more into it. Like, are you turning around and using cap space to acquire another contract plus an asset or two? Are you thinking Turner frees you up to move Holmes on his value contract to acquire assets? So, I guess what I’m saying is that I can see that move as a useful part of a larger plan. But in isolation, I can’t really say. I think the process of building a contender is likely to be at least a 3 year process. So doesn’t think move enable other future moves or does it just take us from a 32-win team to a 38-win team for the next couple seasons?
Here’s a trade B/R dreamed up:
I’d do that in a heartbeat.
Certainly. If Oladipo is even back to 80% of himself, he gives the Kings a perimeter defender and half-court facilitator they need. He isn’t an ideal fit with Fox, but I don’t think we’re at a place to turn down talent. And at the very worst, he’s an expiring deal at a trade deadline I’m convinced will have lots of teams desperate to create cap space.
Though, I have a hard time seeing the Pacer not target a primary ball handler type with those trade assets. Losing Turner and Oladipo, that team’s greatest needs will be a primary ball-handler and versatile wing defenders. Somebody like Jerami Grant would be perfect for them.
While we’re talking about the Pacers, I’ll use this opportunity do my usual hyping of young nobodies and say I would love to target Goga. I think he’s going to be a quality player.
You’ve mentioned Goga quite a few times. What is it about him that you like?
He’s a smart skilled big who shoots, passes, and blocks shots. His question is going to be mobility, but I think it’s in the “good enough” range. He won’t be especially switchable, but I think he’ll be good enough.
…
2 Hypothetical questions:
1) If you could get any player outside of the top 20 to pair with De’Aaron Fox, who would you take? Let’s assume that the top 20 are: LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Embiid, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Harden, Steph, Lillard, Durant, Westbrook, George, Butler, Simmons, Tatum, Kyrie, Towns, and 2 wildcards of your choosing (I’d probably pick Mitchell, and either Gobert or Pascal here).
2) Similarly, if you could get any player in the NBA to pair with Fox that would be a 2nd option (or a 1b to Fox’s 1a), who would you take?
1. Bradley Beal
2. Bam Adebayo
Eerily close to what I was thinking.
1) Beal
2) Siakam
Maybe Zion the 2nd one forgot about him. Toss up between him and Bam for me.
What do you guys think the ceiling is for a Fox/Beal – led team? Assuming we’d have to give up say, Hield, Holmes and a 1st MINIMUM to get him.
Does a Fox/Beal/Barnes/Bjelly/Bagley lineup with Cojo, Jabari and (mid-level free agent) off the bench win more than 37 or 38 games?
I personally do. It would be similar to the Wall/Beal led teams where it was just them and a bunch of guys.
Do you think De’aaron will ever be the playmaker that Wall was in his heyday though?
That team also had the perfect 3 and D complement in Otto Porter, plus a younger Bojan and Markieff. And they topped out at 49 wins (in the East). I don’t know man…
I don’t see why not. They have similar attributes with the speed and Fox has shown improvement every year so it’s possible he gets there. Harrison can do what Porter does in my opinion. Bogi and Bojan are similar as well and I’d rather have Bjelly the Markieff.
Yeah maybe if we squint real hard and everything goes right, we can become like a 42-45 win team in the West (if the Wizards trade us Beal).
I don’t think there are any individual players that are at all available that alone would push the Kings significantly up the board. Like, who’s the worst player who, if you could just magically transfer them to the Kings, would make those team a 6th seed?
Yeah I agree with you. I was more illustrating that even if we got Beal (who a couple people think is the best, most realistic possibility), we still have to get ceiling performance (and beyond ceiling imo) from several of our other players just to get to that 6th seed conversation.
Fox isn’t the passer or defender Wall was even as a rookie. But I do think he’s a better decision maker. Specifically, his shot selection is much better. Wall’s team would have been better off if he simply shaved 5-8 shots off of his per game numbers.
Health aside Barnes is a very poor mans version of Porter. He does everything worse. Which, added up, makes for a pretty big difference overall. Barnes does have a BIG advantage in availability. And that’s a decently big deal.
When the Wiz were at their peak and won those 49 games, Porter played 80. He was a big contributor to their success, in my opinion. He had around 3.5 VORP for a couple seasons. Highest Barnes ever had was 1.2 (with the Dubs).
Not an end-all stat, but I think it’s a pretty fair representation of who Barnes is, especially the last couple seasons in Sac. He’s a little above replacement level.
Yeah, Barnes defense is pretty overrated IMO. His best quality is that he’s a great teammate/human and he rarely makes big mistakes.
Agreed.
Barnes can do enough to where he isn’t going to hurt you on both sides of the ball. Bradley Beal would be a big value add and it all comes down to where Fox lands in his progression. Does his play reach all star levels or does he plateau. He doesn’t have to mimics Wall’s game 1 to 1 but if he comes out next season and the consensus is he’s playing at an all star level I think that’s enough to get us over 38 wins.
Only the lowest of bars will do here at
STRKH!This is a $20MM per year starter:
And if all goes well, we acquire a 30ppg scorer, and Fox plays like an All-Star that could be
Which is one game worse than we were two seasons ago, still below .500, and almost certainly out of the playoffs tying the record for futility.
The big issue is I think that team just doesn’t defend anybody. There literally isn’t an above average defender in that starting 5 and at least two of them are downright bad.
I was getting back to AirmaxPG original question as far as the wins go.
The Barnes money issue is a Vlade mess up. Him as a player I don’t have issues with. He’s solid offensively and defensively.
I think Fox all star level play includes him getting better defensively and I think Beal is solid there at that end. You can play Holmes at Center who can rim protect. Not as hopeless defensively in that context.
I believe Holmes was just traded to the Wizards in this scenario.
Ah that’s right. My bad. Well that mid level free agent gives me wriggle room to get a rim protector. Don’t know the free agent pool off the top of the head but I think Daniel Theis will be one he would suffice.
Yeah, it seems like we agree that even with all those things going right (trading for Beal, Fox becoming an all-star, signing a quality rim-protecting center–all pretty big IF’s) we should still be around a 38-42 win team.
Jrue Holiday, I think, is essentially what we should hope that Fox becomes. As Fox’s shot gets more reliable, and his defense improves, he could really be a terror at both ends. He’s got the same physical tools and smarts, a lot is going to depend who coaches him over the next few crucial years.
Let’s hope!
Hey, you changed the rules on me!
What changes do you think might happen with the Kings and the NBA at large over the next few years as they reconcile with the major cash crunch caused by the economic collapse from the poor response to the pandemic? Cap decrease, return of the amnesty clause, expansion, contraction, G League folds, etc?
Also, what are some different ways, more tactful ways to tell people to shut up when they say the league’s ratings are down because of “wokeness?”
How much do you think Buddy’s contract incentives are fueling his apparent desire to get traded? I was looking at the incentives recently, and he could potentially make a ton more money if he was traded to a team like Philly. Here’s the various contract incentives:
Games played and FT% aren’t really dependent on the team he plays for. I think you could make an argument that he has a better chance of hitting the rest of his incentives in a place like Philly.
Wow, that’s a lot of money to be made if here were to go to a team like Philly.
Maybe Luke gave him the ball so much to save the team some money. (2.3 turnovers/game)
I think this is the darkest timeline, because it perpetuates what I think is a very large problem in today’s NBA as players/agents have more power than ever. X player plays the part in Y non-playoff team until he gets paid. Then X player becomes disgruntled publicly and forces his way out of town.
I saw Buddy Hield at Mortons Steakhouse – do you think he’s a ribeye or a fillet kinda guy?
Skirt.
Really great if used and cooked perfectly. But if you ask it to do too much or overcook it by it even the tiniest bit it becomes pretty tough to swallow.
Not sure what steak he likes, but I know he loves whine!
The Buddy Show
What is fair value for Fox? I am against trading Fox, but I know Monte has to be open to all options.
If I were Monte I go to Fox and say we are not good enough to talent wise to compete at the highest level, we are trading Buddy+ Bjelly+ Holmes, and giving minutes to Jeffries/ Bagley/ draft pick/ Justin James. I would mention this is 1 year where you work on your weaknesses, shoot as many 3s as you want,, play pnr and use it as another development year. He’s a smart guy, he would understand and know what that means, and if he asks to be traded I listen to offers.
Personally I would move all the players mentioned, probably re-sign Bogi, keep Barnes and Joseph for support vets (aka no one wants them).
I think in return for Fox, it would be reasonable to expect a good young player on a rookie contract, plus a (likely) high lottery pick in 2021 or 2022.
I’ve mentioned a Knicks trade, but I also I wonder if the Bulls have the assets to pull it off. Something like Coby White, Markkanen, and a 1st?
With Monte making moves and Vivek also making moves, when is the most realistic year we reach the playoffs?
In rubbernecking news that I’m sure most here are to mature to take notice of, holy shit have you seen STR lately?
Half of their articles get zero comments and the only one to hit double digits recently is about Grant’s podcast. And most of the comments are by Grant apologists or straight up “All Lives Matter”/Anti-social justice supporters.
Hell of a job Vox. I’d be really curious to see the P&L statement on that one.
I haven’t checked in over there in months and unfollowed them on twitter. I do not recall the site of which you speak.
I was just looking at Vox – they just named a new SVP for SB Nation today so apparently they realize they need to figure out how to repair what they broke. “Now more than ever, it is imperative that SB Nation get back to the basics of supporting our fan communities,”
https://www.voxmedia.com/2020/10/8/21507577/vox-media-names-jermaine-spradley-svp-sb-nation
Good luck to him – it seems like pretty much most of the blogs are ghost towns compared to what they were a year ago.
might not want to sink all your money into Vox Media in expectations of an SB Nation come back with Jermain Spradley’s appointment to SVP
Vox = Lol
Good luck with that, jerks.
Im not sure what the viewpoint on that particular thread has to do with the main point about STR losing members?
Are you inferring that people at Kingsherald support “social justice” in unison and dont have a variety of views as well (whether they voice them or not)? Just because there have been a few articles written and the “fire Grant” supporters are more boisterous, I wouldnt assume many people here dont feel the same
That last point just seems needless interjecting of politics where it doesnt need to be. STR is losing membership, what that has to do with the tone of the comments on that particular topic is your particular bias
There are really three observations in my post:
I didn’t state or insinuate anything about the ideological leanings of the commenters on THIS site in regards to social justice of any other issue. Nor did I imply that the apparent shift in ideological make-up at STR had any causal relationship with their decrease in audience engagement. What you infer from my comments? Well, I have no real control over that.
As for the idea of “needless interjection of politics,” well, honestly, I think it’s nonsense. Politics are inherently intertwined with every aspect of life. The idea that politics can be separated from, well, anything, much less a multi-billion dollar, international industry owned almost entirely by the ethnic majority with a key workforce dominated by a historically oppressed minority, is at best naive. In fact, the attempt to separate basketball from politics is in itself a political statement.
You may not like it and the conversations may not always be fun, but make no mistake, I’m not “interjecting politics.” The politics are already there woven into the fabric of basketball and everything else. Some people just choose to ignore it. Which you’re welcome to do. There’s nothing that says you have to engage in every conversation that pops up. But you also shouldn’t expect others to avoid subjects, especially subjects clearly related to this site’s subject matter, just because you don’t like them.
I hope it’s not too late to ask but a random thought popped into my brain this morning.
With this offseason likely to be shortened and strange, would it be a good time to try the experiment of having free agency open up BEFORE the draft? Pros and Cons?
I would be knocking on the Nuggets door. With a nice run in the bubble, do you believe they would be making moves this off-season to possibly compete with the Lakers/Clips next year and be willing to move their young talent?
Hypo Trade: Hield, Bjelly and 12 for Porter and Gary Harris. Harris is grossly overpaid at 19 and 20 million coming up. Obviously in order to get a young talent like Porter, you have to give and take. For the Nuggets, they would be surrounding Joker and Jamal with excellent shooting. Thought?
I don’t think there’s any chance they give up Porter for Hield when they can dangle him in a better deal to get someone like Oladipo or Beal.
Honestly, I really doubt they’d even give him up for those guys. This is a rookie that made the All-Bubble team putting up All-Star numbers on his rookie deal. Unless they don’t trust his health, I doubt he’d be available for anything less than a top 10 player.
He certainly showed a lot of promise. I don’t know he was close to all-star level. I think Malone did a great job overall cherry picking minutes for him to do his best. But it was brutal watching him get destroyed on defense. I mean I won’t blame him for not being able to guard LeBron, but he almost single handedly cost Denver the Utah series if Murray didn’t out-supernova Mitchell.
I don’t think he is good enough to hold up a deal that gets the Nuggets Beal, that’s all. Another scorer on the floor of Beal’s level may have been enough to beat the Lakers.
MPJ shot 42% from 3 as a rookie. To say nothing of the fact that he’s 6’10+ with excellent rebounding and more self-creation ability than Hield. I’m not sure I see the logic in trading him away in order to surround Jokic and Murray with shooters. He’s about as good a shooter as there is. The only reasons they’d move him are: A) to get a superstar, or B) they don’t trust his back at all.
Otherwise having MPJ is pretty much ideal for a team like the Nuggets. Having his potential production on a rookie deal is the dream for any contending team.
I don’t think porter jr. Is available to the kings outside of offering fox. I’d call them about bol bol.
Would you trade Buddy Hield and the #12 pick for Gary Harris and Michael Porter Jr.? Do you think Denver would go for that trade? IMO nabbing MPJ would be a great move for the Kings to try and get a young player with All Star potential. I think Buddy would help Denver a ton as he would be the player they hoped Gary Harris would become when they paid him but has failed miserably to do so. I think he would make a nice 6th man if he were to be traded to the Kings with MPJ starting at the 4 and Bagley at the 5. Then try to do the Bogdan sign and trade deal with NOLA for Lonzo and we’d have a really interesting team of Fox/Ball/Barnes/MPJ/Bagley. Thoughts?
No chance they trade MPJ unless it netted them back an all-star caliber type of player. Harris though is attainable. Just not sure if they’re willing to swap Harris for Buddy.
When watching a game, I tend to be a Sierra Nevada kind of guy, whether attending live or from my couch. However, occasionally I’ll supplement my cold frosty to start the 4th qtr. with a shot of ice cold Patron. The wife is more of a cosmopolitan kinda gal unless we’re playing particularly poorly, in which case she shifts gears to the ever effective Long Island Ice Tea.
My question is, what are some of the TKH staffers’ go to libations for enjoying the game (or just in general)?
La Croix with shot of POM.
Long Island Ice Tea, when you need results in a hurry.
I was listening to a Watching the Tape podcast yesterday and thinking about keeping Walton in an expected lost season. One way that would possibly make sense is if truly everyone is on the trading block with a full rebuild underway starting with the 2021 draft. How would you feel about that?
Also, I am running into way too many Manscape ads lately. What does that say about my browsing and viewing habits, and what changes do I need to make to get my life back on track??
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