Since the Domantas Sabonis acquisition, De’Aaron Fox, and anyone who has ever watched a single second of any level of basketball, has asked for one, simple thing: a rotation of quality, three-and-D wings to support the Fox-Sabonis pairing. Despite that very obvious, critical, roster-breaking need, Monte McNair has politely declined to take any significant action in that direction. Instead, he’s shopped the incredibly attractive pairing of Kevin Huerter and Trey Lyles for the past decade-and-a-half, with not a bite to show for it.
In lieu of an actual difference-making deal, he’s pretended to be in the running for Pascal Siakam. He made overtures in the OG Anunoby talks. He eavesdropped on the Mikal Bridges conversations, and more recently, he’s leaked the news of being close to John Collins and Cam Johnson. But those moves aren’t coming, and they never were. Harrison Barnes and DeMar DeRozan and Keegan Murray are good enough. They allow the Kings to maintain flexibility while also staying aggressive.
To further poison the relationship with the only true star Sacramento has seen since the glory days of two decades ago, the Kings also forced Fox to take the blame for the once-controversial Mike Brown firing, even though Fox never asked for that to be done. Monte McNair and Vivek Ranadive avoided the media like they were an impactful trade, and Fox was left in the dust, again.
Of course, that firing ended up being a shot of adrenaline into what once looked like a lost season, and in the past month, the Kings have played out of their minds. Their 11-3 record is the second-best in the league. They’ve posted the 9th best offense, the 8th-best defense, and have beaten good team after good team despite fighting through injuries. They just need a wing.
Instead, they’ve taken a sharp turn to the left and have begun the process of shopping De’Aaron Fox – not to maximize value, and certainly not to kickstart a rebuild, but because they are incapable of making B-level moves that every other competent GM makes on the regular in this league. They will dump De’Aaron Fox before he dumps them – the same reaction and maturity level one expects from a middle schooler, which is the exact level this organization operates.
And if Fox is traded, the Kings will not rebuild. They will not execute subsequent trades of Malik Monk and Domantas Sabonis and DeMar DeRozan. They will pursue whatever package offers them the best chance of making the playoffs, getting Vivek his playoff check, and allowing him to continue raising ticket prices. It won’t be a fun, sprint-around-the-court, young team. It’ll be a worse, less fun, less successful version of the current 10th place Kings.
Perhaps the saddest part of all of this is that a John Collins or Cam Johnson trade just isn’t that hard to pull off, or at least it wasn’t and shouldn’t be, and it likely would have satisfied Fox, at least in the short-term. But in the off chance that the Kings actually prove themselves capable of holding those sorts of conversations, they’ll now be wildly out leveraged. If Collins is the key, Danny Ainge will eviscerate Sacramento knowing that they have to make the deal, and the same can be said for Johnson and the Nets or Jerami Grant and the Blazers.
If the Kings ultimately move Fox, their market has been somewhat destroyed by waiting so long, by pissing off his camp enough to allow there to be rumors about “destinations”, and by pursuing their cheap, win-now, no matter what, approach. A premiere, young, picks-filed package isn’t walking through that door.
When all of this turns disastrous, and it will turn disastrous, the Kings will have no one to blame but themselves, although who between Vivek and Matina and Anjali and Wes and Monte will have made what decision will remain a mystery. Perhaps one or two are fired, but nothing will change long-term.
The Kings are going to pivot from not landing John Collins to trading their franchise point guard, and they are arrogant and incompetent enough to believe that is a reasonable, and perhaps even positive, result.
Couldn’t have written it better myself. This is exactly what we have to look forward to. And for those of us who have been around since the beginning of the Sacramento Kings, It is exactly what we’ve been living with. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
Take it easy Fox isn’t all that let’s get a 4/3 and keep it moving.
I agree with this take. Fox is pretty good, but not a max contract like what he will demand. He isn’t the main star of this team – Sabonis is, but he acts like he is. I blame Brown for putting that mentality into Fox. Replace Fox with Ellis and you aren’t losing much in the starting lineup, imho. Fox can be traded for a 4 to pair optimally with Sabonis, but I don’t have faith this organization will execute such a trade.
I have Fox around the same tier as guys like Jamal Murray, Tyrese Maxey, and Tyler Herro. They are gonna get max deals but at some point it looks like an overpay.. I should also note, those type of guys are not the alphas on good teams. They are best at 2nd or even 3rd fiddles on very good teams.
Well stated and accurate. Max guys are not just the alphas or best players on their rosters. And by any reasonable measure, Fox is a top 20-40 player, and that is max territory.
To your point form yesterday’s discussion. It partly is about the money for me when it comes to Fox, but I realize that is what he’s gonna get paid no matter where he goes. My pause is giving him that money AND making him the alpha. Should you put a superstar, like a Durant or Luka next to Fox, then….you’re cooking with fish grease.
That’s also why I’m hesitant to sell off future assets for another role player like Collins or Cam to put around Fox. It’s just not going to make a big enough difference.
Max contract Fox always seemed questionable to me. He is good, but this team won’t ever go in to the luxury tax, so building a roster becomes even more challenging.
That is good context to add to your perspective, makes a lot more sense to me Adam.
What 4 would you trade Fox for(semi realistic)
Kuminga
Good points, this is a good opportunity to get a solid backup big, and tall/long 3 & D wing, maybe someone like CJ who can eventually replace Demar. Can maybe get CJ & Collins in a 3 team. This lineup needs more balance, plain & simple. Trey & Huerter won’t be getting us anything esp Huerter who looks like a G-leaguer these days. I think if anything Fox will be doing us a solid, let some other team pay him almost 60M with his new deal. I don’t think any team will be able to win with him eating almost 30% of your salary cap. Only one solid 3 pt shooting year in 8 seasons, and the assist-turnover ratio isn’t too great either…when we are talking about max players.
I think under this new iteration of the CBA, you’ll see max deals be handed out like candy less and less, now that there are very real draft pick consequences for teams that scoff at carrying “collect ’em all” massive payrolls.
Agreed. I think Fox is doing us a favor. Being cap strung with him as our max isn’t gonna elevate us to a higher plane no matter how much you shuffle the chairs on the titanic.
You keep building and competing..turn Fox into more depth and picks and see where that goes. To me DeMar has given us a lot of what Fox brings. If we can get a shooter at the 1 and a more competent 4/5 reserve and maybe a 3 and D wing. I think our team just got a whole lot better and Fox has the value that can command those things.
Many have complained of an unbalanced roster. They have too many guards. Fox is not happy and may not stay. Why not trade him and get those pieces that are needed? Hopefully that will happen!
If Fox is traded then why is the Collins or Johnson trade now a mute point. If Fox goes Huerter and Lyles probably won’t go with him so why can’t we have both?
You’re giving up a lot more than Huerter and Lyles in a Collins/Johnson trade, so should the Kings give up young players and picks for a team that’s probably not making the play-in?
I admit I do not know about the ability to trade first round picks, but if Fox is traded, we get some players back, plus draft capital, such as a 1st round pick or 2, can we now trade one of our firsts (with Huerter/Lyles) to also get Cam Johnson? So, in essence we get additional young players like Castle, Vassel, and then grab Cam Johnson with the 1st, all while getting rid of Huerter/Lyles. Sign me up!
Yup they could flip any picks acquired from trading Fox to use for another trade as long as it’s all done by the deadline. Or more likely, it would be a three-team deal at the deadline.
But if Cam is the target, they could also trade for him directly. Something like Fox for Cam, Clowney, Z Williams’ expiring, and two unprotected 1sts? No way they give up this year’s unprotected first in any deal, though.
That would still leave us with Huerter. But at this point, he’s probably best used as an expring contract/salary filler in a trade in the offseason or next deadline.
I don’t suppose they could trade Fox in a deal to get Lauri Markannen from Utah. But that would be a nice prize.
Lauri can’t be traded this season.
In a Loocked on Kings Matt George mentioned a possible trade with Huerter, Lyles and Carter plus an un protected first for Cam Johnson. If Monte would do this IMO then he should also include Sharpe. My thinking is if Fox goes to the Spurs which I think probably will happen if traded at all then one player I would definitely include is Castle which would replace Carter.
Maybe the front office knew that Fox wanted to leave, delaying any moves on Cam Johnson or John Collins? Hard to give them the benefit of the doubt based on their track record.
Who knows, maybe Fox being moved will end up being a good thing for the franchise. More Keon minutes, see what Carter and bring, get back some impact wing, and use whatever picks come in a Fox deal can be used to fill any more gaps in the roster.
No sense in me being upset, not going to make the situation any better.
It could be that these wheels started in motion back when Rich Paul sat court side in the final days of Mike Brown. If Fox’s camp let his intentions be know back then and Monte has continued to dog paddle through the season, then we are in trouble.
This just further proves that Monte isn’t the one steering the ship, Vivek is.
I think it’s actually a bunch of people grabbing the wheel all the time and jerking the ship in all different directions, with no clear delineations of power or position.
I mean, it really could be either.
Vivek is the ceiling for this franchise, and unfortunately he is a very short man.
I mean, how many times does Sam Amick have to tell us explicitly that Vivek is steering the ship before we believe it? He’s said it on the radio twice in the last month!
It’s what I’ve been yelling and seeing too. Fox is not the problem here. Monte is not the problem here. Brown was not the problem.
That stupid piece of shit owner is the problem. I really dislike him. The way he treats fans and people that deal with him is gross. But I think we’re screwed. How are we ever going to get rid of him
Assume there are 10 million hardcore Kings fans. $100 one-time donation each, buy out vivek’s portion and become the Packers of the NBA as a “publicly owned” team. And maybe we won’t shaft ourselves when re-negotiating parking terms.
This. The problem is not that the owner is running the ship. Owners/governors will always have a say one way or the other. The problem is that Vivek is a buffoon when it comes to sports that somehow thinks he’s a genius. The problem is he zigs when he should be zagging. He interferes when he shouldn’t, then he let’s his GMs make dumb decisions (or no decisions) when he should be stepping in.
He is prone to mistakes because he doesn’t really know basketball, nor does he know enough (or has too big of an ego) to hire someone competent that can put in an organizational structure. So, he instead listens to his trusted circle of sycophants with no real basketball direction or vision.
He also picks the wrong people to listen too. See Mullin, Dumars, Divac…
Honestly, I don’t think he listens to anybody. He thinks he knows everything. Fuck him.
He also treats employees and those dealing w kings like shit.
He does everything wrong
There are probably lots of things happening behind the scenes that none of us will know. Fox definitely doesn’t look excited most of the time, even when the team is playing well.
I’ve noticed this too. I love Fox but I’ve just felt in the last couple months or so he has seemed apathetic. Not sure if it’s injury or not or morale, but it’s pretty obvious on the court
He and his agent (along with everyone else in the freaking community) have wanted the front office to improve the roster, and nothing has happened. I get the frustration for Fox.
Agree, this seems to come from that same discussion. And if they don’t think they can make a trade to keep Fox happy then why not trade him when his value is higher, rather than waiting for it to tank?
As long as I’ve been following this team, this has always been the story.
Fanboys on Twitter seem completely unaware that competent teams flip assets before they leave. It’s like a completely foreign idea here in Sacramento. I can’t blame the fans for never being exposed to competency.
Join us, and together we can escort your fandom from childhood to adulthood.
Trading a guy with 1.5 seasons left on the contract is nowhere near too late and destroyed his market.
I remember many of us pining to flip a very productive Rudy Gay before his contract expired in 2016, only to have the Kings sit on him until he got injured in late January for the reminder of the season and he then walked in free agency.
I remember the Gay injury situation like it was yesterday. That was classic Kangz.
Remember when Harrison Barnes was worth at least one first, every deadline he was here?
Hey now. We traded HB for DeMar DeRozan! We fleeced those teams!
Look out for that chasm.
Many of us that posited trading Fox for a long time were ridiculed by other commenters including some who write for this site. But that’s just how fan boys are, they get connected to players over what is best for the team.
So your point is that because the kings are doing what you’ve been saying you want them to do it’s a good move? I think you’re setting a pretty low bar. But hey I’m sure it will work out for the best. Kings moves always do.
And the names of these writers that ridiculed the idea of trading Fox are:
I don’t miss much on this site, and I have never seen “ridicule” from writers on this site for wanting to trade Fox. I have sure seen disdain for trading him for a handful of magic beans, so it is really more about the return for Fox than the actual trading of Fox.
But sure, fanboys! That’s productive.
I have suggested trading Fox for a very long time. I don’t know about ridiculing but I have got my share of critical responses which I am fine with.
My point was to avoid this situation by staying ahead of it, trade him at peak value for a good to very good return. It was never personal, just my assessment that peak Fox was not going to advance this team very far.
Now, they waited too long and might have to settle for your magic beans. Hopefully not
I hope they realize they don’t actually have to trade him now if there is not a satisfactory offer. They can trade in the offseason or next year’s deadline. Monte needs to Danny Ainge this shit, but knowing the Kings history, I also unfortunatly think we’ll be eating those beans for dinner.
My worry with this is the longer it goes the value and options are going down.
If Fox could go on a tear the rest of the season maybe not.
That’s certainly possible, but at least acting like 1) he’s not desperate b) won’t take pennies on the dollar and c) will take offers from ANY interested team will maximize whatever return Monte gets, even if the plan is to trade him now.
In other words, act like a real GM. He’s been cautious and prudent to this point, the worst thing would be to suddenly act desparate and panic. Fox having 1.5 years left is a huge advantage.
Yeah, we are not near Defcon Jimmy Butler
I agree with this. And one advantage to trading him now is the team receiving Fox could in theory have enough time to trade him again if they decide that. If they wait that option (and value) is gone.
Good point.
Reporting seems to be that Fox has a preference but is open to be traded elsewhere.
I’d call it passive or fearful, but potato/potatoe. 🙂
This. You have to deal him now or in the offseason. The Kings leverage will be greatly reduced in a year. Not to mention that the rest of this season will effectively be lost, since the only conversation will be around when Fox is leaving and for who.
Yeah, I’m specifically looking for the names of the site WRITERS that have ridiculed folks here for suggesting that Fox be traded.
Never felt ridiculed. Just critical opinions which is what this is for, right?
He seemed to be more focused on commentators..
There was a time when criticizing Fox’s play and suggesting a trade, as a number of us did, was dismissed, as people still believed that Fox could elevate his game.
Now, apparently, fewer have that expectation.
Consider the other side of the coin. Hell, I would want to watch San Antonio with Wemby and Fox. That sounds like fricken amazing basketball. This opportunity for San Antonio doesn’t come by every day. They will want fox (for basketball reasons, AND financial reasons). Hell, TV markets will be all over that. I dont believe, at all, that the market has been destroyed. You only get one WEMBY, and you only get one opportunity for someone like FOX to pair with him. If they really want him, they will pay for him (and assets are something they are not short on)
If only someone could have seen this coming. Who could have predicted. I for one am stunned to see the Sacramento Kings, of all franchises, acting this way. We should figure out the people responsible for this shocking turn of events.
Good to see you nbrans
I’m so confused. Tim, haven’t you and other commenters been advocating that the best course for this franchise is to trade Fox and get assets back? Didn’t you suggest a Fox to San Antonio trade a couple of weeks ago?
So why is it incompetent now for the Kings to look at their options?
Maybe they’ve realized a Cam Johnson or Collins aren’t going to move the needle with this roster. Maybe they are worried about Klutch forcing a trade.
Great question.
Two massive differences for me:
To summarize, the Kings are taking a not-terrible idea and executing it in a terrible way.
Some of us have been advocating for them to blow it up from the second Vivek bought the team but he clearly has no intention of doing that. Which is dumb and short-sighted but he’s dumb and short-sighted so we’ll muddle along in the middle as always.
The time of purchase was THE time to do it. He had two years of goodwill built in for saving the team, and another two for the new arena. This team could have been OKC before OKC. What a missed opportunity.
Draft Giannis and rebuild around him.
“Even better. We got his dad.” – Vivek
100%. It would have been so easy to do and everyone would have been totally fired up to root for a bunch of young guys. But Vivek pulled what I’ll call the “cheap Ishbia” it’s where you go all in on the present while also being cheap so you aren’t really going all in, just being marginally bad instead of horrible. Or maybe Ishbia is running an expensive Vivek?
Ishbia is running an expensive Balmer, which is really saying something!
Interesting logic: They were terrible a few weeks ago, and made a big move we all hated. But it worked, and now they want to make another big move. And we hate it. There’s no way we’re wrong this time, those guys have no idea what they’re doing.
“Most thought the team was better than their terrible record?” I read a lot of comments about “terrible roster construction”, so this claim is dubious. No one knew what to think.
But the FO made a tough decision, and it worked. Give the team some credit. They have another tough choice here, and at least they’re being proactive.
Personally, I’d rather see Monk continue to be the main creator, Ellis do amazing things on D and hit 3s, and bring back a 4 to help Domas, along with other assets. The gaurd depth will suffer, but you have to break a few eggs…
Well, our front office Foxed around and found out
I wish this wasn’t such a great comment Kfan.
De’Errant Fux.
Fox gets to go from playing with a stud like Domas to a stud like Wemby. Must be nice.
The Constant

Viwreck Ruindiva
My only pause with this is that it isn’t true. DMC was a bigger star who put up bigger numbers, albeit while being a bigger asshole. This also overlooks the impact that Sabonis has on this team. The Kings aren’t even sniffing the playoffs without him.
I get that many of us love Fox and consider him a “star,” but in terms of the NBA is he really that big of a star, or is he just the longest running star that Sacramento has endeared to their hearts?
Cousins and Sabonis have more accolades than Fox.
That’s also a positional thing though. There are a lot more ‘star’ guards in the leage than centers.
But Centers usually have less spots for All-NBA, depending on how they determine positions. Usually 3 Centers make All-NBA, while 6 guards do.
I guess we’ll find out. Going to be interesting to hear a lot of people explain themselves if Fox wins a ring before the Kings do.
if he goes to the Spurs what explaining would be needed? They have a better everything than us
No but here’s the thing. Fox isn’t good enough to be the PG on a championship team. I guess if he did win a ring it will be in spite of him
Winning a ship within the next five years with a player in Wemby that’s likely at that point the clear best player in the game probably has something to do with it.
Who has ever said that? He isn’t good enough to be the BEST player on a championship team. If he wins a ring with Wemby, is it going to be because of Fox or Wemby? Come on. Ty Lue was a championship point guard. So was Rafer Alston. Fox can be a good player who isn’t good enough to be the best player on a championship team. He’s always been a second or third guy. There’s nothing wrong with that but when team’s build try to build around guy’s who aren’t THE guy, they end up right where the Kings are: stuck in the middle with no ceiling.
If you’ve read my posts in the past, you’ll see that I don’t think that Fox is the guy to build around. Just like I don’t think Sabonis is a player to build around. The thing is, there are very very few teams that actually have a player who is so good that all you have to do is build around them. And the kings aren’t the type of team that gets those players. Instead what we appeared to be doing was getting a bunch of players that playing together could take a team to a championship.
So you either say let’s just keep trading and tearing things down until we get a player to build around, or you get enough really good players playing together that you make a great team.
Trading Fox is much more likely to have the team that he goes to win a championship than it is to get us a ring anytime in the near future. Or probably even the far future.
Yeah I guess I’m perfectly happy to just keep tearing things down until you find the player or players to build around. Fox could have been part of the solution but poor decision making (passing on Luka, lack of impact trades etc.) dashed the hopes. Now he’s about to get very expensive and ultimately you end paying top tier money to a guy who isn’t getting you out of the first round of the playoffs. In this new salary cap environment, if that happens you’re dead.
And yes if Fox goes to San Antonio with Wemby and they win a ring it will be because of Fox. Not that Fox will be the best player on the team. But it will be a team that could not have won the ring without Fox.
Curious (no snark), what is the current complete list of BEST players that could lead their team to a championship? And give it some thought. Is Jimmy Butler still on that list moving forward? Steph? LeBron?
I think the list that most folks would produce is probably no longer than a dozen to fifteen players. So if you don’t possess one of those 12-15 players, do you just keep blowing it up over and over and over again until you finally get that brass ring? And if you had that chance and pulled Marvin Bagley, how long until you get that level of luck again?
This is just me personally, but yes, I would just keep blowing it up until I either got one guy (The Spurs with Wemby) or hit on so many high upside young players (The Rockets or Thunder with all their young pieces) that there is a clearly viable path toward championship contention. I want to compete for top-4 seeds and titles. Play-in births are just not interesting to me. This current core lacks to the upside to truly compete and if that’s the case, I would have everything on the table. Personally, I would have preferred they pass on DDR and do everything possible to get another wing and another big.
Now, we stuck in the middle and the only way out is to take a big swing on changing the makeup of the team. Did they back themselves into this corner? Absolutely! You’ll never find me accusing this organization of competence. But this is where they are now so a larger move probably needs to happen.
Plus, I’ve always thought Fox is a little overrated. He’s really good and he’s fun to watch. He’s a good guy. But I also don’t think moving him breaks the franchise or immediately relegates them to the lottery.
Agree with this perspective
In that vein, Cousins brought a package of Buddy Hield and a pick that was parlayed into Justin Jackson and Harry Giles. It could have been so much more, but Kangz gonna Kangz.
I look forward to the middling point guards that Monte selects with the impending draft picks.
My memorabilia had a brief stint as cool. It is now heading back to somewhere between ironic and sad. And the prime of Domantas Sabonis will be wasted.
I reference two games, the most recent Houston and Golden State games, in which those teams focused their best defenders on Fox all game long. And this unleashed the other players, notably DDR and Monk, while also negating double teams on Sabonis. That will be gone once Fox is gone.
Front offices should not be dumber than their fan base. Why does this keep happening here? What has the constant been since 2013? Searching…searching…searching…

Fools to the left of me, jokers to my right.
I think your point about Fox being the King who is game planned against the most does not get discussed fully enough. It is likely fans will be wondering “what happened to Monk/DDR” after Fox leaves and those two have better defenders assigned to them.
I think there will be games like that, where Fox is missed if Monk and DDR are off. But I think it will even out by not having the Fox 1 for 8 three point shooting type of games. I think they happen just as often.
And my bigger point is I don’t worry about scoring, there are lots of ways to generate points.
Defending, getting stops and rebounding is the hard part. And having a more balanced, less redundant roster will improve those things. And all of that is more sustainable than relying on shooting.
The only caveat I have with that is if the Kings move Fox it’s not like 100% of his skill, gravity, scoring, etc going with him. Talent will come back in return (hopefully) that can pick up the slack. What percentage of talent that comes back is up to Monte.
I feel the return on Fox will give us insight to Monte’s plan. Should it be picks with a bunch of unproven prospects, then burn the whole thing down already. However, should it be quality talent that makes the sum greater than the parts, then maybe the end game is to compete for a deep playoff run.
Just a spitballed comparison:
Fox to Houston for picks and rookie scale deals….blow it up.
Fox to Orlando for Franz and Suggs…go all in.
But to my point, Suggs and Franz will not command the defensive attention that Fox does. It will still be to DDR’s detriment, if not DDR’s and Monk’s.
I think there are just too many unknowns, but I’m hoping Monte is taking everything into consideration. It could be that moving Fox unlocks Keegan, allows Carter to grow, gives Keon 30+ minutes a night and all those results make the team better.
I’m hoping and trust that Monte, Wes, and Co. have better basketball minds and analytics then we can muster on these threads and then make the right decision.
I’m hoping for a front office that does not come close to meriting comparison to a thread on a Kings website. And with this organization, hope is often all we have.
I have given up hope with V running the show. I was hoping he had backed off a little bit, but he hasn’t.
There’s just no way they’re gonna get anywhere with him meddling all the time.
Vivek backing off a bit doesn’t help in the long-run. The notion of owners not “meddling” is a bit of a red herring. He’s still the governor and will need to make decisions no matter what. The problem is that he’s consistently shown himself to be a nincompoop when it comes to basketball and that’s never going to change.
Yeah if he was involved but listened and took the advice of his basketball people (or hired competent basketball people), this wouldn’t be such a big problem. As Sam Amick has reported, that isn’t the case. He always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room even when he has no idea what he’s doing.
I think it helps Keegan
I think Keegan might be beyond help.
I disagree with this pretty strongly. I don’t think Fox being gone would hurt DDR or Monk at all mainly because they play differently. Why is Fox not being out there going to hurt the Monk/Sabonis pick and roll (our most effective play BY FAR by the way)? Fox doesn’t command any attention as a shooter, nor is he much of an off ball cutting threat. Fox doesn’t space the floor for DDR when he isolates on the wing.
All of the lineups data bares this out by the way. The Kings best lineups all feature one of Fox or DDR and more shooting and defense, typically in the form of Keon Ellis. It’s why the Fox/DDR pairing never made any sense.
It’s why I don’t understand why Monk hasn’t gone back to the bench. The starting lineup is getting killed early in games every night because the pieces make no sense. There’s more talent on the floor but none of it is optimized.
In the GS game, Fox had Wiggins on him for much of the game. He was shadowed by their lead defender almost the entire time that he was out there. In the Houston game it was Amen Thompson, and Dillon Brooks when Thompson was out. These guys would/will now target DDR and/or Monk instead. It is the simplest of math.
Not in the road GSW win or the BOS win or the MIA win. No Fox in those games
And let’s take a look at those games.
The Kings shot under 42% in their win against Mia. DDR and Monk were a combined 18-50 in the Boston win.
But they won because the defense was excellent down the stretch and other guys made shots. It hasn’t gotten as much play around here but Fox has been a pretty poor defender this year. Which is sort of the point! I think empowering guys like Keegan and Keon to take and make big shots can help the team in the long run.
We’ll see how this small sample size works out. The Mia game was a double OT game that could have easily gone the other way. The other two were blowouts.
Logic tells me that better players win more games than lesser players. And I absolutely reject the premise that the roster is being held back by Fox. It will be interesting to see whether the efficiency of Murray and Keon goes up or down if they are forced to take more shots.
I have consistently thought that Fox’s shot creation would be the skillset the Kings missed the most if they moved off of him. Monk and DDR are very capable, but as we keep mentioning, they also benefit from Fox’s gravity.
A weakness of Domas is that he will sometimes hold on to the ball too long, and end up forcing passes that end us as turnovers. Fox is a huge relief valve for him to turn to when he does that.
This is a genuine concern for me.
My concern has been Fox’s declining efficiency. This season might be an anomaly because of the injury, but the numbers have been declining.
That is a huge concern for me as well. And I have serious doubts Fox’s game is going to age well, the more he slows down the less effective he will be.
I don’t think the roster is being held back by Fox. I think the roster is being held back by poor construction. They set Fox and/or DDR up to fail IMO. I’d be just as happy if they moved DDR but he makes far less money than Fox is about to make and would fetch far less in a trade.
I don’t think this is Fox’s fault, I just think that the roster was built in a way where this was probably always the logical end point.
You are referencing a two game sample size, as Fox’s gravity importance but a three game sample size is too small. OK
Fox’s shooting has been so bad lately. He’s hurting the team more than helping, especially as he drives to the hoop without creating separation, missing badly on contested shots, and not getting calls.
Is it injury affecting his performance? Or early signs of loss of an elite skill?
Sure but are those guys stopping a Monk/Sabonis pick and roll? All available evidence suggests that they aren’t. Is there more space and more problems created for the defense if there’s a shooter in the corner instead of Fox? Again, all the lineup data supports the idea that the Kings offense as a whole is better when there’s more shooting on the floor (usually Keon Ellis). I just think that by removing OR DDR, the floor opens up and the offense has more options thus improving the offense overall even if there’s less individual play making talent.
And I will point out, that Fox has really struggled against those players you note which has led to stagnate offense and poor shots. In general, I just prefer a more egalitarian offense system and right now that’s not what we have with our current starting lineup.
This is an important point – there will be a ton of pressure on the perimeter players to make shots, working off Domas and Demar instead of Fox. If you replace Fox with a lower-usage, decent facilitating PG who can shoot the three a little, it could work. But you need the right guys, certainly.
One thing to note – the Kings are 20th in the league in 3p% this season. They shoot 38% from the arc when Fox is off the floor, which would be 5th in the NBA. But the offense overall has been slightly better when Fox is on the floor. Very odd.
I think the potential is there to have a better-balanced offense, but it’s nice to have Fox go supernova from time to time.
I think the biggest loss if you trade Fox would come in the play-in/playoffs where you seem to need more one on one shot creation late in games because the defenses are so dialed in.
But, can they even get to the playoffs? I think they can but the ceiling just isn’t that high if Fox and Sabonis are your best players IMO.
Monk and DDR have seemed to do pretty well in late game ISO situations.
But Fox is also ball dominant. Perhaps, the better ball movement helps DDR, Sabonis and Monk?
I’ll reference the previous, Golden State road win, the Celtics road win and the Miami 2OT win. All without Fox
And let’s take a look at those games.
The Kings shot under 42% in their win against Mia. DDR and Monk were a combined 18-50 in the Boston win.
And they won
Yes. And if you go back and re-read what I wrote, I clearly stated that things would get a lot tougher for DDR and Monk on the offensive end of the court.
If the premise is that this roster can win more games with Fox than without, this is my stop.
If they get nothing in return sure, stop there.
If they make the right move I think the team can be more balanced and better. I’m just worried they are now trading from a point of weakness.
Yeah, should have moved him 2 days ago
I first suggested this two years ago (maybe more), not sure without looking thru old posts
I know. Was just making a joke along with my agreement.
And the Kings beat Boston by 17 even with the bad shooting by DDR and Monk.
In that Boston game, Keegan Murray had 19 points and played great defense. One of his best games of the season. Is it possible that by Keegan getting more consistent looks and moving up the shot pecking order, he plays a little better? There’s seems to be some evidence that’s the case.
In a one game sample size? OK.
I think it’s emblematic of a larger problem. Totally my own observations and opinion which could be wrong. But I think there’s something to it.
Completely agree and said the same further down. Fox is a really good player. He isn’t a star or if he is, he’s a minor star. If he could shoot it better maybe he would be but we’re seven years into his career and he’s still a poor three point shooter. He also has never been able to sustain a high level of play. Be it minor injuries or bought of cold shooting, he just can’t sustain it. Stars are stars because they do it every night. Fox never has.
Well said
I’ll never totally forgive Fox for his response after the Detroit loss. “It doesn’t matter.” Winning doesn’t matter? Taking responsibility doesn’t matter? Yuck
The problem is we are rating Fox on a Sacramento scale, instead of relative to ther rest of the league now.
As much as we hate to admit it, we are a poverty franchise anbd the fact that his main competition for true star in the last 15 years is DMC tells it all.
And enjoying a split of that tasty tax revenue generated by serious teams.
Well, he does need to pay Mike Brown for the next 2.5 seasons.

What are the over/under odds of Cash Considerations making a return to Sac in any Fox deal?
1000%
Seriously though it’s off the board because it’s a certainty.
Yeah, I’m gonna hold off on judging this situation until the dust settles and we see what happens.
This situation does seem Fox’d in a number of ways, so I agree with you there. But Fox himself isn’t completely innocent. For months he’s been vocal and honest about possibly not signing an extension and leaving. He’s holding out for Super Max money and it has always seemed more likely than not he wouldn’t get an All Pro nod. If the simmer just started boiling and he wants to leave, why wouldn’t we trade him?
For the record I love Fox and hope we work this out and he stays. But Fox’s own admissions about leaving are prior to the Mike Brown fiasco.
At least the King will keep their pick!
Actually I could see us being just good enough to win a play-in round and losing that too. Great timing on this trade
Don’t you curse us, Tim!
They absolutely won’t. They’ll finish 13th and lose their lottery pick. We all know this.
It’s the Kangziest of timelines.
It is and we all know it’s probably coming.
We’ll finish 12th. And the 13th team will jump us.
You’re right that’s even more on brand!
Fox has been manifesting this with his lackluster play for a while now. His finger will magically heal when he lands in a diff destination. This has clutchisms written all over it.
Just like a “superstar” does.
I saw the picture or his finger recently. That would be some next level acting if it just “magically healed” by switching jerseys.
Last I checked, we’ve won nothing since Fox has been the face of the franchise the last 8 years. Our FO sucks, our owner sucks and the biggest mistake by the owner/FO was trying to make Fox out to be a number 1/superstar which he clearly is not.
As many including myself have said for sometime, this core has a cieling that doesn’t include the WCF or Finals, so just blow it up already. Just imagine the massive return you could get for Fox, MM, DDR and Sabonis and then with that return you start building around KM, KE and DC.
Fox will probably get traded and this FO will continue to try and win with a MM/KM/Sabonis core which we know is mediocre at best.
King’s fans have little to look forward to when it comes down to it.
Last I checked, we’ve won nothing since ’04.
Since 2004 the owners have been the Magoofs and Vivek and the two “star players” Fox and Cuz. Says it all right there.
The refusal to do a proper rebuild for two decades is why we are where we are.
Hey all, it’s been a minute. Hope everyone has been well.
Just wanted to chime in on the Fox dilemma, as sort of an outsider (lapsed Kings fan who still keeps an eye on what they’re up to):
It’s striking how much this feels like the leadup to DeMarcus leaving the team. And in my minds, these are two very similar talents – not quite good enough to be Batman on a championship level team, but questionable whether they could be effective as Robin (or would accept it).
If Monte is a good GM, he sees a player who is currently making $35 million as the second best player on his roster. He sees a team that has actually been better this season when Fox is on the bench. And he sees an eventual max contract extension for Fox that could potentially keep this team on the hamster wheel of “not quite good enough”.
IMO, Fox needed to be dealt around the time of his 60 point game. But very few GMs would have the guts to do something like that – every time Fox blows up, it reinforces fan sentiment that he still has a potential superstar level. So you’re basically walking yourself out on the plank, and whatever deal you make needs to work both now, and in the future.
I don’t believe that dealing Fox would be giving up on the season, or the short term for this group of players. There’s the potential to make this roster make more sense with a complimentary big to pair with Sabonis and a Derrick White type PG, who focuses more on facilitating offense, making a few shots and playing defense.
But the cat’s out of the bag now, and Monte unfortunately has to be cognizant of Rich Paul’s wishes for his player. That limits the market a bit.
It’s going to be interesting, but when Cousins was traded, there really wasn’t much else on the roster to get excited about – and they got nickels on the dollar for him. That part is different now – the roster talent is considerably higher IMO. It gives Monte a fighting chance to set this team up for success longer term.
Very thoughtful post Otis. Quite nice to see you commenting again.
I am in the camp that thinks Fox is more desirable than DMC, both in how he operates on the court, and even with him seeming to pout or at least become quite aloof for a few weeks every season, I would assume he is not the locker room presence DMC was. It could be interesting to see what he brings back.
#10-8<16-2 (not bitter though)
Thanks Michael, good to see you as well!
I took a look at Fox vs. Cousins just from a numbers perspective at the same point in their careers. Eight seasons in (and very similar minutes played), it would be hard to argue that Cousins wasn’t the more productive guy.
Adding – I do think Fox has benefited a bit from better talent around him. But it would be unfair to just assume that, and not that he’s had a hand in making those players better.
Solid stuff, Otis. Good to see you posting!
OTIS!
Good take
Good stuff, Oits. Also, with all the concern about Monte’s level of competence as a GM, he is BY FAR better than Vlade. I don’t expect Monte to take a bad deal just to appease Rich Paul and De’Aaron Fox.
Since Otis is back, will Kingsguru make a return???
Somebody might even eat a shoe soon.
Rise the hot hand! and where are all the Mookies?
We only need The Fifth Mookie.
That’s the one!
What about Bluejohn
Bless my Sole.
I asked the same but went further back and asked about pookeyguru
I heard he has an affinity for knives.
Otis!! Welcome back man!
And, I almost completely agree with everything you said here. I don’t the season is over if they trade Fox and literally all of the lineup data points to the fact that while Fox isn’t a detriment this season, he’s not really helping all that much either.
Dan Devine and Tom Haberstroh pointed this out a couple weeks ago on a podcast that RikSmits posted in these very threads!
Otis sighting!
Very well said!
No it isn’t. Otis is still dumb.
Boom! Roasted!
/checks fantasy basketball standings 🙂
Just wait until Fox is setting up my guy Wemby!
I am playing the long game.
Welcome home Otis.
Great Post and good to be reading your thoughts again.
Same as it ever was… excellent comments Otis.. is Pookieguru next? Or Blujohn?
Good to see you, Otis!
Hi Otis!
Good to see you and good points.
I find the idea that Fox is some big star pretty perplexing. Maybe compared to what we’ve had in the past but on a league wide scale? Fox is a really good player who made an all star team one year. He’s like the 28th best player in the league. Which isn’t bad. It’s good! But he’s also not some untradable asset.
No one is untradable, but the 28th best player in the league is not easily replaced, especially when the front office at the helm iz Kangz.
That’s the thing. It would definitely be possible for a Front Office to pull off a win-win, path-defining trade of De’Aaron Fox. But this Front Office?
Monte’s Weekend at Bernie’s act keeps paying dividends. Patience, some said! We patienced right into purgatory.
Yep. Fox in Presti’s hands and Fox in this FO’s hands are two completely different outcomes.
That’s certainly the rub. I think they *could* absolutely set themselves up really well for the future and have a better present by moving off of Fox but they have to actually execute a good deal. Which they haven’t done to this point. But then the issue isn’t moving Fox, it’s front office incompetence and if the front office is incompetent, does anything else really matter?
Call me crazy but I actually think the Kings could be a better team THIS YEAR by trading Fox. I was an ardent Fox fan until the past year. He just isn’t consistent in the things he does well enough. If we can get a stud wing and a quality bench piece, I think this team improves. I’m here for it! Do it ASAP, Monte.
Ultimately, I don’t know that there’s any way to get this team to be a real contender if you have this owner.
I’ve seen this before….over and over
Yeah, I didn’t say contender. I just think the W-L column could be improved with the proper Fox trade.
They’ll never contend w this owner. Unless he magically backs off or sells.
See my last reply.
Not crazy at all. IF (big if) they can make the right trade they could be more balanced, less redundant and better.
I agree with all the historical analysis here re the inability to fill out the roster or acquire legitimate back up wings/bigs/(heck, even PG).
That said, I don’t know if trading Fox would be the worst thing in the world and cause the proverbial sky to fall in the Kingdom.
Is it really that improbably that the Kings trade Fox and actually end up with a better/deeper team as a result? They did trade Rese and end up with a better team structure. We shall see.
Also, this article does relieve the Klutch factor here. It seems Fox may have wanted out but also didn’t want appear to be the bad guy asking out.
Fox wants out because he sees how horrible Vivek is. Sees the foundation of this org is rotten.
Sure. He wants out because he knows the roster, as constructed, has a ceiling and the current FO has been unable to fix it for a few years now.
I don’t blame him. I also don’t know if its the worst thing for the Kings either. He is one of their most valuable trade assets too.
Right. But the issue is, no matter what they do the Kings are stuck in shitsville because of Vivek. He’s an asshole
Yes on all points here. My only quibble is that I think Domas is the best player on the team but that Fox is arguably the most valuable trade asset.
Does the sky fall in the basement?
“The sky is the roof.” – MJ
I think this is pretty much where I’m at.
Fuck You Vivek. He is the reason this team has been a mess and will continue to be….. It’s is sad and disgusting
His ego amd cheapness is disgusting. I’ve seen the way he treats people who do biz w the Kings.
We are stuck with this shitty weight of an owner because he can’t even control his ego enough to back off even a bit. Even James Dolan backed off.
Fuck off Vivek. Just do us all a favor and leave.
buh buh he saved the Sacramento Kings.
I legit shed a tear our last game that was supposed to be our last season in Sac. I shed a tear during the intro to the first game of the vivek era.
As much as I am genuinely happy there still is a Sacramento Kings, I have felt for a while that this team would have been better off in Seattle, Anaheim, or wherever else they were discussed moving to with almost any other owner running the ship.
I would have followed the team wherever they went just because I’ll never be able to care for another team the same way but man, the vivek era has been such a damn dick kick to the fans.
Boy, not me. I was literally planning to be angry at the NBA for life if the Kings left. Still, the Vivek experience is…how you say….not good.
It’s difficult to speculate about how the negotiations have gone with Fox’s agent, but the Kings did offer Fox a contract before the season began and Fox declined it, not because of the offer but because he wasn’t sure if he wanted to stay.
on the Fox topic, there was an interesting podcast about a month ago on Game Theory with Sam Vecenie which discusses Fox’s possible trade value and what teams like Houston and San Antonio might trade for him. It’s titled: Are the Sacramento Kings in trouble with De’Aaron Fox? Is it “Danger Zone” Time?
Vecenie also says if the team trades Fox, they would be blowing it up. Is that true? I have my doubts about that.
I don’t think the Kings need to blow it up if they trade Fox. This season could swing either way, depending on the return they get for him. Being bad could mean keeping their pick this season. Being good could mean that they got the right pieces and built a better roster that has more synergy.
I don’t care the path, I just want the team to be competitive and make playoff runs for years to come.
I don’t buy that moving Fox means the Kings are blowing it up. I understand why some would say that but I don’t really buy it.
Even if the Kings trade Fox, I would not blow it up.
Yeah I don’t think they really need to blow it up. There’s talent on this roster and presumably you’d be getting some talent back in a Fox trade.
First off love me some Vecenie his podcast is next level. But I took it to mean that with Fox gone it would trigger a lot of discontent amongst the ones that were left. Meaning you would have to blow it up even if ownership didn’t want to. Also this was framed in that area of right before and right after they fired MB. The Kings featured heavily in 2 back to back podcasts he did.
For what it’s worth I assume Monk would want out just because of the connection to Fox and him taking a cut to stay. Sabonis I think would want out immediately and unconfirmed but heard some rumors from people Kangz adjacent that he was the coach killer not fox. DDR isn’t trying to play out the last part of what he has left on a bottom feeder Kangz team.
I don’t think they have to blow it up but much like the current Fox situation now I don’t think it will be their choice.
I’m not sure Monk wants to leave with Fox traded. Starting as a featured playmaker with Sabonis could be great for Monk’s career.
sounds a bit speculative but interesting. If it’s true that trading Fox would cause Domas and Monk to demand a trade, I would not trade Fox.
Anjali for GM!
I have a friend who is a Spurs fan lifer. He’s wanted to trade for Fox for ages (as has a lot of SAS apparently).
His idea was Vassel + Castle or Sochan (I’d prefer Castle) and 4 FRPs for just Fox. It works in trade machine, it gives us a little more cap space, and there’s a chance that we can use one of those picks to ship Heurter out for an upgrade or make a move elsewhere.
I love Fox. Trading him would be my worst sports fan day since Game 7 2002 or Webber’s knee injury or the Raiders/Bucs super bowl. I am a Fox truther just like I regularly raised the flag of Cuzistan. But that package (if it included their unprotected pick this year and Atlanta’s) as well as some 1sts and 2nds to restock the cabinet, I could be intrigured. I’m especially intrigued if he actually wants out. The longer we wait, the worse it gets.
We’d lose something in that trade, but it’s the kind of risk you take. The rest of the team isn’t garbage without Fox, and if we can get 80 cents on the dollar for him and get maybe the two best guards in this class, a few real cracks at winning the Lotto this year, and being ready to reload? Now I’m interested.
Monk, Vassell, DDR, Keegan, Sabonis. Then add in Sochan/Castle, Ellis, Carter, and whatever they can get for Huerter (and maybe Lyles, like John Collins). That team would have some good 3pt shooting and an upgraded defense.
Might not have the “star power” in names, but a better roster 1-9, and draft picks coming down the road.
The thing is, if we’re going to make a trade like that, It’s going to have to have some unprotected firsts. Because that kind of a team is once again good enough to be in the playoffs but not good enough to win a championship. So for all the people who want a single one a player to build around, I still don’t think you have it there and I don’t see how you’re going to get it there.
My prefernce would be their unprotected 1st this year than a bunch of them down the line when they are a contentender.
So that’s what it really comes down to. If you don’t like this team because there’s not a 1A. What is your plan for getting a 1A?
…a lifelong A’s, Raiders, and Kings fan…
SAME, my condolences. We have the 3 stooges of team owners.
We are a long ways from the late 90s/early 2000s when they were all contenders. Feels like a different life time.
Unfortunately same my man. At least Mark is trying to not be the worst owner anymore. Vivek has no problem being the worst as long as the cash keeps coming in
Mark wants to succeed but is just incompetent, he did nothing to get where he is except being born.
Fisher might be the worst and him and Vivek are buddies which is repulsive.
What did you expect? This was inevitable. 8 seasons. 5 coaches. 1 playoff. Drafting guards year after year. Poor ownership and poor communication with the GM.
A
trade with the Spurs sounds amazing. ESP if Castle, Sochan, Vassell, and picks are involved. Ellis, Monk, Carter and Castle. 3 out of 4 defensive stalwart guards.
Vochan can be the wing the Kings need. Vassell slots in the starting role after Demar is traded for a stretch and or a big.
This team probably wouldn’t miss a beat. And maybe even better and a more balanced roster. Along with a cpl future picks.
And please don’t tell me trading for Collins or Johnson would have appeased Fox or elevated this team to a championship contender. It wouldn’t have.
This trade gives the Kings bench depth. Flexibility to possibly move Keegan, Demar and one of the guards. Either Ellis or Monk if they want To fill in weak areas.
FWIW, as I understand it, the Spurs are extremely high on Castly, so I doubt he gets thrown in the deal. The Spurs have a boat load of picks, that’s going to be the bulk of any deal with them.
Some things that I know and am pretty sure I’m in agreement with most people here on:
A. Vivek sucks.
B. The team’s history with Vivek/Matina does not inspire great confidence.
C. The way the Brown firing was handled and not publicly addressed probably played some role in all of this.
D. Fox is not the 1A, supermax, carrying a team to a championship guy a la Kawhi, Jokic, etc.
Some things I think I differ on here:
E. I am somewhat surprised and disappointed, but I don’t see this as being 100%, grass fed, unadulterated, pure KANGZ. This is a known and running theme with Klutch guys all around the league. While I have little doubt that the Kings have likely fumbled some parts of this, it takes two to tango.
F. Another reason I don’t think this is full KANGZ yet is because the talent situation is different. Losing Cousins for peanuts was losing the best player on the team, the guy that everything and everyone revolved around. Fox is a good player who has moments of greatness, but he is not the engine that drives this car; Sabonis is. If Fox gets traded and Sabonis doesn’t immediately want out and the Kings can try and work with him, they should.
G. Unless they completely screw up a trade involving Fox (which I’ll admit is a decent possibility given it’s the Kings), I still think this team is closer to lower/mid tier playoff team than blow it up time, and I’d rather see them try to push something while they’ve got Sabonis/Monk/DDR than tear it all down. Frankly, at this juncture, I think I’d be more upset at a midseason teardown given how many teams are tanking in what looks like a stacked but top heavy draft class.
I won’t lie, this sucks. I got to meet Fox once, got a signed rookie jersey out of it and everything. Been a fan ever since he got to Sacramento. But to borrow a great line from a revered member, it’s about the laundry at a certain point. It’s totally valid to be angry, to be frustrated, to call for rolling heads. I feel some part of that too. But until the deed is (or isn’t done), I believe in a Sabonis led team and want to see what happens.
Well said. This is where I’m at as well.
Excellent take.
#sea>pdx
Good stuff. Absolute agreement on A-D and pretty well aligned on the rest of the stuff as well. I think Fox is a good dude. I think he’s a very good player. I also don’t think he’s the type of guy you can’t trade and potentially get better if you get the right pieces back.
We can blame the FO for he poor roster construction im fine with that statement.
That said this conversation goes hand in hand with the fact that i don’t believe Fox to be leader or a 1A option on a team challenging for the deep playoff run or championship.
I’d love to keep him if we can, but i remain steadfast on my point that im not okay with just “making” the playoffs. I want a chance to win the whole thing. As of right now, there is no way this team as constructed can win. Someone has to go and be moved, and we aren’t talking about some fringe type moves.
Fox has proven expendable
Hollinger is floating the idea of Detroit being a 3rd team in a deal of Fox going to the Spurs. Detroit has cap space and can mostly eat a contract l like Barnes to make things work numbers wise.
Maybe we can get the other Thompson out of it?
His suggestion is that basically all we get back is a little bit of salary filler picks and a large trade exception.
If this trade happens, anything less than the Mikel Bridges trade (5 1st Rd Picks & a player) is a loss.
And, I just KNOW we’re not getting that. We’re gonna get fleeced & it’s gonna suck.
I think it’s gonna be closer to what the Pels gave up for Dejounte Murray, with maybe a bit more sprinkled in. Pels gave up a young prospect (Dyson Daniels), productive bench player (Larry Nance), two first round picks, and filler.
Something similar might be the Spurs giving up Castle, Sochan and some picks.
That’s about what I’m hoping for.
So here’s my question for all the people that are in favor of this deal. If you think that we should trade Fox because he isn’t a 1A, then this trade is going to have to include some unprotected first round picks from teams who might possibly be in the lottery.
If we’re trading Fox for different good players, since we’re not getting another 1A in the trade then we’re going to be good enough that our draft picks aren’t going to get us an alpha player.
If the goal is to get a single player to build around, then the people who want to tear everything down are probably right. Our best chance to get one single alpha player to build around are to trade all of our good players and get a bunch of lottery picks.
If you think that we can trade Fox for unprotected lottery type picks, then we’re probably just getting salary filler back, which again probably means a teardown sooner than later.
If you really think that Fox is valuable enough to get players that keep us in the playoffs and unprotected lottery picks, then he’s a much better player than you’re giving him credit for.
At this point I think I’m probably just going to ignore everything until I see what happens.
Of course, it all comes down to his market and whether he and his agent are willing to look outside of San Antonio. More options = more potential return for Monte.
But I’m on the wagon of getting the best deal possible and seeing if there’s some addition by subtraction here. He’s not the best player on the roster, and you could argue he’s been borderline third this season (with moments of greatness).
You aren’t getting a superstar back for him, and you don’t really need to IMO. Sabonis is here for a while, you’ve got Demar, Keegan and Malik for a few seasons as well and I see Ellis as a guy who can scale a bit with additional minutes. If you get a couple of decent pieces back, I could see a team that’s more balanced at both ends of the floor.
Good to see you again Otis. We’ve had a lot of arguments over the years but it’s good to see you. I don’t see any way that you can say that getting rid of Fox is addition by subtraction. But let’s say that it somehow was. And that he wasn’t good enough to get you an unprotected lottery pick or a potential 1a. If all that was true then you’re still exactly where you were before. In a position where you might be good enough to make the first round of the playoffs but not be good enough to ever get past that. And your draft picks wouldn’t have any more value than they had previously.
Good to see you as well SB – and yeah, “addition by subtraction” is probably unfair, because it would be a necessity to bring back the “right” players for this roster. So “addition by subtraction and addition” is probably more accurate.
I think the concept isn’t so much that you’re replacing Fox with a better overall player, but you’re replacing him with a player or players who fit the rest of the roster better.
Even if it means the team still has a similar ceiling right now, having Domas and Fox get you to that ceiling and take up over half your cap does limit the flexibility to make additional moves down the road.
If you deal Fox, you’ll only have Sabonis on a super high dollar contract, and the rest of the roster might be easier to shape via the trade route.
Do you feel that there’s zero chance the team could be as good or better this season if Fox is traded?
No. I think it’s possible. I just don’t have a lot of hope.
Great points.
Do you feel that there’s zero chance the team could be as good or better this season if Fox is traded?
I think IF they make the right deal they could be more balanced and better even if they are shipping out the best player in the deal. It is a huge IF though given this FO.
I think it can be addition by subtraction when talking about roster balance.
I have been in the trade Fox camp for a long time but I would never suggest he is a negative like being a bad teammate or a bad guy.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. We all know there’s a roster imbalance. But getting rid of a top 40 player can never be addition by subtraction.
I just don’t believe that you can argue that this team is better without Fox, unless you get something really valuable back which is addition by addition.
All good. I just think the Fox-Monk-DDR fit on the team right now is negative and subtracting one of them and adding a better fitting piece will make the team better.
IMO, Fox is much more expendable because they have Monk. In a lot of ways Monk is the poor man’s Fox, in a good way. He is not quite as good (and actually better at some things) but on a way better contract.
THIS 100%
Maybe John Hollinger’s suggestion is the solution. He’s essentially got us trading Fox for picks and a large trade exception with Barnes going from San Antonio to Detroit. I mean if your goal really is to get a 1A then that’s probably the way to do it.
Well, tomorrow’s game sure will be interesting!!!
Clearly, there is a lack of seriousness of purpose with Vivek and the front office. For Vivek, the franchise is a toy for his amusement and profit.
We will never know the extent to which McNair made his own decisions, and the extent to which Vivek imposed some upon him.
We do know that the trade for Huerter has turned out disastrous. We know that the team hung onto Harrison Barnes far too long. We know that the team has been alarmingly passive since resigning Sabonis.
Perhaps, we can’t accurately assign blame, but as Tim says the organization has failed.
As for Fox, despite my frequent criticisms of his play, I hope he lands in a better place. He will never be an elite player, but he committed himself to this franchise and his commitment was not rewarded.
Best trade scenario: Fox, Huerter, a 2nd round pick, Cash Considerations, Vivek, Matina and Monte as filler for Sam Presti.
In, but it needs to be a lifetime contract.
AKA the Welcome to Basketball Hell contract
Send it in! Seriously I would probably trade every player on the roster for Sam Presti because there’s no doubt that three years down the line, he will have built a winning team.
Everyone prepare yourselves for the incoming Vivek special
It says SUCCESS right at the top, so I`m convinced
That is bad enough for Vivek to actually pull off. I think the -4 should -14
This would be the end of my fandom.
Ok, that seems a little overboard here.
Right? Just a DEFCON 1 article for a DEFCON 4 problem.
I think trading away Fox is a huge mistake. Unless the Kings are getting back a Jaylen Brown or Jalen Green level of player (not a Tyler Herro type), then it makes zero sense.
For THIS team, we all agree that we need a strong wing and an additional BIG man. These players need to be REALLY good. We can NOT get those assets via free agency, and we cant get them by trade without giving up something good in return (and Heurter/Lyles wont do it). We have substantial depth at guard and we have shown to be euqally as good with Monk and Ellis as we are with Fox. And we have Devin Carter as well.
If we keep Fox, then we cant get the needed wing and big man we need. If we keep Fox and have to pay have a god awful amount of money, again, we will have no ability to sign any decent players. If we keep Fox, how are we going to afford people that we need to keep on the team in the future. Ellis, Carter, Keegan. Its not saying that Fox is not good, but by selling him high for needed assets, we give our team the opportunity to get much better than we could by keeping him.
This is where I have been for a while. Carter is the wild card in the equation. If he’s the second coming of Davion Mitchell, moving Fox will suuuuck. If his ceiling is 70%-ish of Fox or better, bring on the trades, baby!
Sorry, but this does not seem to be a bad thing. And I don’t think this just came out of left field, its been brewing and the front office not be able to make other deals without giving up too many picks and/or other young players (Murray and Carter) probably has set this possibility in motion. Plus the uncertainty Fox will stay and what they will have to pay him versus the impact he has for a winning team. If the find a good deal to retool the team with a temporary veteran point guard and a big wing/power forward and add some more future picks then why not? As people have complained here, the team is too unbalanced to go very far in the playoffs. But they still have a talented core without Fox of Sabonis, DeRozan, Monk, Murray, and Ellis. Why not try to trade a repetitive but valuable asset to rebalance? Hopefully that is the plan. Its better — for this year anyways then blowing it up when there is still a talented core.
100%
100%. We’ve all seen it coming and the only difference today is Fox’s agent jump-started the media frenzy.
It may not turn out to be a bad thing if Monte doesn’t get fleeced. But let’s not pretend this is part of some master plan to sell high on Fox and balance the roster. They have been building around him since he was drafted, missed a lot of opportinties in the process to cater to him as the #1, and would absolutely give him a super max if he was willing to take it. But he wants out and now they have to trade him.
Reading what Amick wrote about Fox, I am not sure I get the vibe that anything has changed aside from the Kings’ mindset about trading Fox.
Based on that, I’m not sure the Kings are over the barrel at the moment. I just wonder if they’ve had a shift in mindset and are letting the league know they’re open for business. There’d been too much noise that basically only Lyles and Huerter were available. Maybe they figured they’d spice up the trade deadline a little.
I moved from Sac and did not dive deep into the MB firing because I didn’t love MB.. or should I say I didn’t love some things he did as a coach. What did the Kings do to hang Fox out to dry? Did they make it sound like he pushed Mike Brown out or is it because the rumor mail assumed it and they didn’t deny it? Sorry, I just didn’t dive deep into all of the cross talk on that subject.
Mostly just rumor mill that the FO didn’t dispel. Fox switched to Klutch, Rich Paul had been sitting in the stands talking with Monte, and Fox had a negative interview (that I didn’t see) not long before MB was fired. Most commenters, myself included, drew some natural conclusions without having any insider knowledge. Most everybody backed off once it seemed clear that Fox wasn’t the catalyst.
Thanks
Side note – I checked SA’s roster and they really have a player named David Duke. ????
He only plays when they are wearing their white uniforms, and his headband is a bit pointy
This reeks of Rich Paul’s doing…seeing the ineptitude and knowing Fox could go to a bigger market and be a “star.” I agree with everyone saying that Fox isn’t a 1A on a championship team. The question then becomes – what young player can come back that can be a 1A or B on a championship team? The package probably looks like…
Good young player, veteran contract, young developmental guy + picks. Is the good young player Thompson from Houston? Is it Castle from San Antonio? Is it Green from Houston? Those are the questions. I think the framework (minus the picks) should be similar to Paul George to LAC or Durant to PHX. Who’s the SGA or Bridges?
I get trading Fox – but if you’re not going to get a good young player coming back – is it worth it? Picks are potential good or bad. The Kings need to get a good young player to pair with Keegan, Keon, and possibly Sabonis.
Who’s that player?
I’ll never understand the disdain for an agent and player trying to control their future.
Especially if the agent and player want to play for a better organization. Blaming the agent and player, in this case, Paul and Fox, gets the Kings front office off the hook for its failures.
If Fox doesn’t want to play here, the team doesn’t have leverage to demand more than what other teams are willing to offer.
Picks that could be part of the haul from either SA or Brooklyn:
Spurs have Hawks’ unprotected firsts in 2025 and 2027, Wolves’ unprotected in 2031 1st, Bulls’ top-10 protected in 2025 or top-8 protected in 2026. And all their own firsts.
Nets have four unprotected NY firsts (2025, 2027, 2029, 2031), Bucks’ first in 2025 top-4 protected, Sixers’ top-8 protected in 2026 or 2027. And all their own firsts.
If we could get SA’s unprotected first this year, Castle, and some other number of picks, plus salary filler, I could be sold on that.
IMO, Fox has been a good and loyal King and not deserving the shade being thrown his way. He only asked for the team to upgrade the wings. We all want that. He’s not toxic like Butler. I think with a Collins or Cam we can be a 5-6 seed. I’ll take that for this year. Fox has nothing to do with the roster construction. Don’t blame him for it.
I’ve been clamoring for defensive wing help for 2 years since being the 3 seed. It was so obvious they wouldn’t stay in that spot without upgrades or re tooling. The rest of the West was either too young then or severely injured. Two years later they struggling to stay out of the play in. Hovering in the 9-10 range. Owner and front office have failed Fox and Sabonis miserably. They’ve done nothing the past two trade deadlines since being 3 seed. And one summer of nothing and this summer with questionable Demar addition. Who thought standing pat was a good idea? This is so similar to the Cowboys current situation. The owner is so prideful and arrogant to actually hire people to perform certain tasks. You don’t have to get credit for every little thing that goes right. Shared success as a team is a beautiful thing. Take joy in other people’s successes. This franchise is not serious about winning, only filling pockets, and that starts at the very top with Vivek. It’s just so sad to see. It’s demoralizing to think that I may never get to witness the Kings of old again. When they cared about winning and were at the top of the conference. I’m just rambling now…I digress.
Great insight about how you can find success as a group and revel in it, you don’t need to do it all yourself, something Vivek will never learn, apparently.
Whether Fox is traded or not, I still don’t see Keon starting which is a shame.
If a trade goes through, I’d love a starting lineup of monk, keon, Keegan, new big wing player, and Domas. DDR comes off bench to destroy opposing team’s benches.
Never gonna happen, not this season at least.
Monk, DDR, Keegan, new big wing, Domas isn’t too bad.
If the return is for a young pg, I’d rather the young fella come off the bench rather than start alongside monk. There’s plenty of ball handlers in Monk, DDR and sabonis, no need for a PG in a starting lineup that includes those 3 IMO.
The deadline can’t come soon enough.
So the timing of this “leak” or “announcement,” or whatever you want to call just got me thinking. Yeah, the deadline is coming up, but the rest of the league seem paralyzed in making any moves until the Jimmy Butler shoe drops. Could this be a play by the Kings to get out ahead of the inevitable Jimmy trade to open up as many doors as possible?
It’s been speculated that the Butler trade may take up to 4-5 teams to pull off, including picks and teams like Detroit utilizing their cap space. Should Butler get traded first, there could be quite a few missed assets the Monte may want.
From all that, if the Fox trade were to happen before he deadline, I think I’d like it to happen before the Jimmy bomb. Who knows, maybe Fox eventually becomes part of some massive Butler trade?
I’ve wondered that as well. The wording on this is very strange. Everyone has reported that the Kings have started exploring trading Fox, not that Fox asked for a trade. That’s just odd. Not usually the way these things come out.
I just thought I’d point out that Fox and Huerter for Butler, Jaquez Jr. and Nikola Jovic works salary wise. Yeah, it would be a total risk for the Kings, but it’s an all in move. Jokic and Jaquez Jr are also both long young wings on their rookie scale deals.
If Jimmy came to Sac with a massive chip on his shoulder and the play to back it up the Kings could potentially make noise this very season.
Nah – Jimmy has the chip, but he ain’t an idiot. He was recently featured in Architectural Digest (with a stunning wine room) in his L.A. Mansion. He’s going to Phoenix. If not this season, next season.
They’d still need Beal to sign off on that with his no trade clause.
Butler is like a bucket of KFC. Tastes great in the moment, but you sure regret it later on. The thing I like about is this though is that Fox goes East. For me, just depends on how many picks are involved.
A lot of good points in this write-up, Vivek has been a huge problem forever and Monte seems like a hesitant yes-man, afraid to make the wrong move. I wasn’t aware Fox was so long-gone already although I have felt that way but I thought they would trade him after season. The Kings are the kings of not making moves so I’ll be surprised if they do much besides something small. It’s hard to know what to want as a Kings fan, I just want there to be a good plan and for it to be working. But the Kings just seem to do a lot of random confusing stuff, trying to take short cuts basically because of Vivek.
I will also say the skillset of Fox and Monk is very redundant, especially with DeRozan. We need more impactful wings and defense.
Dammit! I was able to do a quick check earlier today and read a bit of the Chainmail article comments and then I come in to this article and thread at the end of my day.
Sigh.
This is a lot. Great Community!
Fox isn’t even a good player
he volume scores at sub average ts%
no d, playmaking, leadership
not only is Domas by far the teams best player but Monk the playmaker is second and Keon is a better fit than Fox with him
moving Fox doesn’t mean rebuilding at all
Thanks Fox for the trade demand as I’m thinking the org was never going to let you go on their own
get that low motor out of my crosshairs
You sound like dlo, and absolute shill for team klutch. Gm is supposed to listen to offers for anyone, fox far from untouchable. Poor article imo
Anyone who thinks trading Fox makes this team better is a fucking idiot and has not watched this franchise the last 2 decades. The incompetent ownership and management is not suddenly getting better.
I wouldn’t use the same words, or the same tone – and perhaps I should – but this, in a nutshell, are my sentiments.
Trusting this ownership to achieve anything greater than mediocrity is not a sound investment. Agents know it, players know it, and all the other teams in the NBA know it.
This season isn’t over and Coach Christie is performing admirably and much better than expected – he will be in charge, with a contract signing this Summer. This mostly secures McNair/Wilcox. And they all answer to … ownership. The same ones who have sabotaged Michael Malone, Dave Joerger and now Mike Brown – the only coaches who have shown wherewithal and have drafted poorly, and traded assets haphazardly and myopically.
Fortunately – as a Kings fan, we fans have this community, which is like Charlie Bucket having a Golden Ticket. No matter how bad at least there is this. Kangzland – where hope comes to die, and GroundHog Day and Lucy and her football live in eternity.
Not so sure Christie is long for the job. A lot of the wins were against teams missing key stars and players. Team is really coming down to earth now playing healthy playoff teams and getting beat.
Christie hasn’t accomplished anything to already be considered the long term(lol) answer. There is still almost 40 games to go. And take a real good look at the schedule especially March. 14 of 17 games against killers.
You’re also fooling yourself If he does he sign. Long term?! lol!!!! What team are you watching? 5 coaches in 8 years. Christie gets the job he won’t last past 2 years. No such thing as long term.
My gut tells me that winning streak was a blend of honeymoon firing, luck, other teams misfortunes, other teams boredom malaise (the Boston victory) Celtics were 7-7 at the time, and the asst coaches pulling out a few victories. My summation of Christie is he more a cheerleader than Xs and Os.This i can tell from his interviews pre and post games. Sure a winning streak can’t be discounted. But when I look at the supposed quality wins. Dallas missing their entire starting lineup, Houston missing Smith and Fleet, Memphis missing Jah, Aldama, Smart, Miami no Jimmy. Warriors No Kuminga,
No Dray, Sixers no Embiid No Oubre
i suspect you’re going to see healthy playoff teams lock in second half of the season and Christie not the second coming of Spoles. Watch.
Team should finally do something smart in the offseason and hire a first asst. Not a fifth asst off the bench.Christie
This hiring of the old guard and sentimental bias will never lead to a chip.
Your logic is agreeable. But not Kangian.
Unless there is a total collapse, head Coach Sacramento Kings is Doug Christie’s to lose. Mike Brown is owed $25M, and Christie is a Legacy King.
Unless turrible- Matina/Vivek sign him on. We can only hope he is decent or better. This legacy hard on by Matina/Vivek won’t be denied. Expect Mike Bibby to be the next Assistant. Bobby Jackson if Nick Nurse gets canned and he becomes available so he can be Lead Assistant.
I’ll voice my cry again- Sac should be aiming for good before they can be very good or better. No shortcuts, and definitely not for a squad from Sacramento.
My two cents…
Fox has many Kings fans in a chokehold that are blinded speed and a single playoff appearance. Fox is “cool”. He has a shoe deal, has been here for a while, and got some league wide recognition a couple seasons ago. He was an all star, albeit an injury replacement, but still, an all star.
Outside of that, Fox has been what he is. A talented and extremely fast player who lacks in vocal leadership and has been wildly inconsistent with his 3 pt shooting. He’s not a great playmaker. I often question his effort on defense. I’m tired of seeing sub 20 percent 3 point shooting games with a ton of attempts.
I like Fox, but he is not and will never be THAT guy. Is he overall better than Monk? Yeah I guess. But the offense also run a lot better with Monk at the point.
Trading Fox for depth, young guys, or picks etc. can lead to a lot of good and unlock a lot of players games. Trading him doesn’t equate to a rebuild rather than a retooling of the roster. Remember when Denver traded Melo and they got better with less talented pieces? That’s my hope for the future and remainder of this season. Fox can go.
Listening to Kings Beat podcast. According to James Ham, the players were informed last week that the team would be acquiring a player….and then the deal didn’t go through.
It also happened twice over the summer, with Domas lamenting missing out on 2 different players, in conversation with Ham and others.
Unreal, totally unprofessional, unsurprising?
Any mention of who the player was?
That’s really strange that they would inform the players like that. Why would you tell thei players there is going to be a trade and then leave them all hanging on who may be leaving? Maybe they meant signing someone to a 10-day on that last roster spot?
16:50 mark or so. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-kings-beat-podcast/id1050307743?i=1000686498222
Unsurprising.
What the hell… if that’s true, just fold the franchise. What a joke.
Monty runs a tight ship and plays things close to his vest. Players had no idea when Hali got traded. He is not one that is going to leak player acquisitions.
What else can you expect from fan media that parrots unadulterated BS fed by agents?
Is Monte the only person who might have done this? No.
But noted about your views about this media source.
Thoroughly reject the notion that our only option is to blow everything up. For every team that is successful with a full rebuild there’s a team that stays losing and in the basement. I’m cool on another another 16 year run of being one of the worst teams in the league. It’s a small sample size but the ball seemed to move more freely with Fox out. He has seemed disengaged this year with one foot out the door. Totally fine with Kings entertaining a trade here with Fox. How i ultimately feel will depend on the return, but I’m OK with it.
Fox on a supermax next year dooms us to mediocrity. It doesn’t doom the Spurs because they have cheaper, younger talent on rookie contracts.
So in my opinion, now is the best time to trade him. Get that 4 FRP + young talent. We’ll be better off next year.
I feel the vet super max is off the table as Fox is not going to get all-nba as it stands today. This could also be why there is smoke to his availability. He can sign the same max contract with anyone who acquires him that the Kings can. There really is no monetary incentive to remain in Sac anymore.
Hammer said kings can still offer him an extra year more than anyone else
I believe that a $165M/3 year extension ($55M/yr) which he turned down. With Sacramento he can sign a $229M/4!year ($57.5M/yr) deal. If All-NBA then $345M/5 year ($69M/yr) available. A $116M contract difference, if you extend $57.25 to 5!years or $286.25 it’s a $58.25M difference.
Fox has earned $150M thus far.
Nice to see you Casey.
Here’s a good one: To Brooklyn for Cam Johnson, Noah Clowney, Ziaire Williams. Lots of 3, lots of D! Fanspo confirmed successful. Keep’em coming TKH!
no
I wonder if firing Mike Brown is the move that pushed Fox over the edge instead of the move that would placate him. Fox giving the team an ultimatum, Brown being fired, Fox having dinner with Brown and then this information coming out…well those are dots, if you’re a little conspiracy minded.
This was all inevitable as soon as Fox made his ultimatum public and Rich Paul showed up. On some level, better now than a year from now, after the front office has screwed around for a year, the team wasn’t any better and Fox’s value was drastically reduced.
I don’t think the Kings front office is very good at talent evaluation, and their passivity is almost unbelievable. That being said, there’s a template for dealing an All Star level player, and the Kings just need to follow it.
I’ve been half-joking about it for weeks, but I’d 100% give Indiana a call about Tyrese Haliburton.
Huge DeAaron Fox fan here. And big fan of DDR, Sabonis, Monk, Murray, Ellis and Lyles! WTF Why trade the franchise player??!! Finally, we have a great starting five, a fantastic coach, and a winning trend. Most importantly, it’s an exciting product. Yes, a few more pieces need to be in place, but please, stop with the craziness.
So I read most of the posts here. Basically, Fox isn’t worth it because he is not a 1A. And I am not saying we shouldn’t trade him. But somehow, ever trade people speculate here also doesn’t get us a 1A player. So what is the plan for getting a 1A player? Why not trade Fox and Monk and more pieces then to get that player?
Also, Fox is not a big star, but the Spurs will give up Castle, Vassell, and gut their entire team for him?
Lastly, none of the trade scenarios gets us over the top. At least not on paper. Isn’t that the issue people have with the team now?
I get this article was written in the heat of the moment and before more facts came out revealing that Klutch Sports forced the Kings’ hand in this a bit.
Either way I disagree that trading Fox a bad move and that it sets the franchise back or even blows up the season.
Sure, I dislike Vivek and think he’s one of the worst owners in sports. But, I’m totally fine with trading Fox.
He’s a nice player and I’ve enjoyed his time here, but the idea of giving him fifty plus mil a year for five years is not smart, imo. His game is predicated on speed and imagining a 32 year old Fox taking up nearly a third of the salary cap is disgusting.
The roster is currently unbalanced. Trading Fox will give us assets and clear the way for some of our young guards.
No need to blow it up. Just get young talent, good picks and roll with it. I’m in the camp that thinks Monte can get this done. He doesn’t get rolled in making deals or let panic guide his hand. Fox can and will bring back a nice haul that should balance the roster and make for a higher ceiling on this team.
I would also look to move DeRozan too. Fully clear the way for a rotation of Monk, Ellis, Carter and perhaps Castle, if the Spurs end up being our trade partner. That sounds pretty damn nice to me.
Lastly still going after Cam and adding Valenciunas asthe back up center would be other moves I’d try to make using some of the assets acquired for Fox.
IMO, that roster goes further and plays better than the current one. So, maybe relax and let’s see how this plays out.
“The one thing King’s fans don’t understand is” …. “You need to trust the process”
If Castle is the return it makes zero sense to not blow it up. Castle is on a completely different time line than Sabonis, Monk, Derozan etc.
Castle’s stats look similar to Fox’s rookie year stats. Castle is raw and will need at least 2 years before he can seriously contribute as a primary player on a playoff team.
if the mandate is to not blow it up a third team has to be involved. For example: Castle and picks to Pelicans, McCollum and Murphy to Kings. Personally it is obvious blowing it up is the smart move. But I’m tired of thinking about what the smart move is knowing we have a dip shit owner who won’t do it.
As I see it, beginning with the Sabonis trade everything has been engineered towards surrounding players around Fox. Consequently the entire premise of the FO “plan”, if you want to call it that, is now officially scrapped.
Mrs. Fox tweeted this late last night…
blob:https://kingsherald.com/633dac99-5927-4e77-9f16-5d2c0f90bb5c
I think that is referencing a tweet, or whatever it’s called now, about Fox still never asking for a trade? My hunch, based on some local reporting, is that the team hasn’t made moves to improve the roster, Kings BBall ops received a call from an unnamed team with a trad idea for Fox, that information was passed to Rich Paul and he ran with the narrative “so you are wanting to trade Fox?”
Being transparent with the agent seemed to bite the Kings in the ass, if that reporting is accurate. He made quite the leap and then made it public.
There was information from Carmichael Dave from someone in the Kings BBall OPS that a John Collins deal was “imminent”. Somehow that deal was not solidified (maybe Utah was contacted about being a catalyst for the Jimmy Butler trade? Maybe Ainge re-negged on the agreed upon offer and asked for more? Maybe the Kings wanted tried to squeeze more out of the Jazz? I don’t know.
Players were told that a trade was happening, then…nothing. That probably pissed off Fox and his agent, showing further ineptitude to makes move to improve.
Or, stick with me here…
This has been Fox and his team’s plan all-along.
His agent did the same thing on the same day with Anthony Davis and the Pelicans. It’s a blueprint.
I am glued to you (yes, I showered this morning).
I despise Rich Paul the agent (he might be a cool dude, idk) and how Klutch Sports operates. If I was a GM, I would not draft, trade for, or sign a FA player that is with Klutch. If a current player on my roster signs with Klutch, I would do what I could to trade that player away ASAP.
Ok.
Personally, I think players should try whatever they can to take the power back, control their future, and get that money.
If Fox wants to go to the Spurs, we’ll take Wemby. That’s fair.
Get Castle and Collins in a 3-team deal and try not to remember that Haliburton has been sent away because of this guy..
Some of these trades by ESpN are a joke. Saying the Kings won’t get Castle in a deal with the Spurs. They will trade Vassell and a bunch of picks? Trading to Orlando for Black and Anthony a couple picks.Trading to Miami for Herro and Jacquez.
i mean it’s like the league expects team to lowball the Kings and the Kings will take them
Herro and Jacquez wouldn’t be the worst, but I doubt that Miami wants to blow it up THAT much.
I don’t disagree that the Kings may handle the return poorly, but I do disagree that the alternative to this problem was all that much better of a reality.
Let’s be honest trading for any of Jerami Grant, John Collins or Cam Johnson doesn’t move the needle in really any way. It may add a game in a first round out, yet I may argue that even a hair generous. That, at the cost of a first is incredibly short sided and mirrors a Kings habit of making moves for marginal gains in exchange of future assets that has aided this current reality.
Lets also be honest, De’Aaron Fox is not a supermax player and we would be wise not to pay that regardless of the context we are in at present. He also by most objective logic won’t qualify regardless but that doesn’t change the fact no matter if he did, such a deal would be an extreme constraint to navigate and is likely a bad idea.
Now with that said what to do…
I think this team would be wise to understand its best path to competitiveness and to me that would be fireselling what is an attractive roster individually in relation to the market more so than it is a rostered squad. Trading in the next two years all of Domas, DeRozan, Monk along with Fox could set up an incredible canvas of future assets, cap flexibility and young players. All in a league context where many are operating fairly short sided and with minimal bottom feeders.
I don’t think they’ll do that, and such being the case also think they could split the difference in considered ways with some hypothetical returns. Fred, Reed and picks does check some present and future possibilities, saves an ejection option if need be. But that suggestion even in its best outcome is likely stagnation or marginally different then the present. Folks should know that going in.
This league gets a lot easier when FO’s operate with likelihood of their trajectory. We have ignored that since at least Tyreke Evans. We have an honest opportunity to recalibrate in an effective way beyond mediocrity or worst of all pointless losing if we want to.
Its just to say 5 years from now this will be the moment that made due course. Know that now.
I feel like there are massive overreactions. 1- The roster construction isn’t ideal. 2- Monk is approaching Fox’s level of production and is certainly a better shooter and PnR facilitator. 3- Fox may not be going anywhere. His wife says they haven’t asked for a trade. 4- Fox’s value to contract is about equal weight. It’s not like there aren’t better contracts out there. He’s a borderline max player that’ll receive a max contract. 5- He’s not the best player on the team (Domas is). 6- We don’t “lose him for nothing” if he walks. He is lost for cap space that can be used for another FA. 7- I believe a S&T is an option in the off season (I could be wrong).
This could all get screwed up and Monte will need to make a decisive move. Either blow up the team (trade Domas too), or build around Domas and Monk. The bad outcome I could see from this is if they trade Fox for picks or a worse guard or some group of marginal starters/bench players and keep Domas. My Laker’s fan friend suggested the Kings would get Rui and Reeves and picks (LOL). But I think this team is a much better team if they trade Fox and get a 27ish year old all star or borderline all star wing or PF. A lineup of Monk, Ellis, Keegan, Domas, and <name an elite wing/PF> would have great roster balance and be a better team than we have now.
For now, I’m just treating it all as pre-trade deadline noise that may be nothing. If something does happen, then I’ll have a reaction.
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