To get us through the late-Summer doldrums of the NBA, we’re reviewing teams from around the league and how their offseasons went.
Indiana Pacers
Key Additions:
James Wiseman
James Johnson
Johnny Furphy
Tristen Newton (Two-Way)
Enrique Freeman (Two-Way)
Quenton Jackson (Two-Way)
Key Losses:
Doug McDermott
Jalen Smith
Oscar Tshiebwe
Isaiah Wong
Tyrese Haliburton’s Team USA Playing Time
Offseason Review and 2024-25 Season Outlook:
The Pacers surprised the league last season, a similar way to the Kings the year before. Tyrese Haliburton emerged into a true NBA star, averaging 20.1 points, 10.9 assists and 3.9 rebounds. The Pacers put together an extremely fast paced and high octane offense and won 47 games, finishing 6th in the Eastern Conference. They swung a big trade, getting Pascal Siakam from the Toronto Raptors. Their playoff run was also very exciting, upsetting the Milwaukee Bucks (albeit without Giannis Antetokounmpo) 4-2 in the first round and then going on to eliminate the New York Knicks 4-3 in a fun second round series before eventually falling 0-4 to the champion Boston Celtics.
The Pacers biggest offseason priority was retaining Siakam, which they took care of early on by signing him to a 4-year, $188.9 million maximum contract. They also re-signed forward Obi Toppin to a 4 year, $60 million contract, while not really losing any of their core pieces. This is a young, exciting team that is set to be good to pretty good for a while, but can they become great?
The Pacers will likely be one of the top Eastern Conference teams again but much like the Kings, they’ll have to find a way to improve on defense to truly become excellent. Last season the Pacers finished 24th in defensive rating. The addition of Siakam helped a bit, with the Pacers going up to 18th after the All-Star break, and they should only get better with a full offseason and training camp, but it’s hard to see the Pacers as currently constructed being a great defensive team while still maintaining their offensive excellence. Still, it should be good enough to give them a chance in the Eastern Conference and to be ready for opportunities like last year where they were able to take advantage of some injury luck and advance a couple of rounds in the playoffs. The Pacers also still have plenty of assets to make other moves, and with the plethora of nice young guards on their roster (Andrew Nembhard particularly made a name for himself in the playoffs), and only one future first rounder owed (to Toronto in the Siakam trade), I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Pacers in the mix whenever another NBA star is available.
Why We Hate Them:
I can’t think of a single reason that Kings fans would hate the Indiana Pacers. Absolutely nothing comes to mind, especially not never ending discourse about who won certain trades.
Boogie begat Buddy. Buddy, with Haliburton, begat Sabonis. Davion begat McDaniels.
Where is this leading? Why does Sac always seem to deal with the same teams? Will Domas ever get Sac past the 1st round? Will Jalen ever suit-up for Sac? Will Davion ever be a starter? Will this next season never arrive?
The waiting is tough.
I hope Jalen never suits up and is replaced. I thought Edwards would have been better, but he is buried deep in Dallas. Crowder is URFA. Nets don’t need DFS. Vanderbilt might be redundant on the fakers.
Davion might start.
Monte must only have a few friends who will talk to him (joke)
Kings have too many guards. Will Carter play? and if he does, will he supplant Jordan Mac? Is he a PG or a short SG? It was a risk taking him. Will it be worth it.
I would even move Huerter for DFS and C. Johnson- would have to include more.
Kings can score but can they shoot the 3 without Huerter.
I think right now the Kings would trade Huerter for cap-relief, and I fully expect them to do just that by the deadline if Kevin doesn’t show up on fire this season.
McDaniels can be aggregated in trade in less than 2 weeks. Brooklyn is obviously in asset collection mode and I’m sure DFS and Cam Johnson are available.
Huerter for DFS works straight up, but I feel Huerter has more value.
Huerter and McDaniels for Cam Johnson works, but I’d bet on Brooklyn wanting draft capital.
One I could get behind is Huerter, McDaniels, and draft capital (future 1st?)) for DFS and Noah Clowney. Full admission, I really like Clowney and feel he could become that rim protecting stretch 4 we all seem to desire. Not sure if Brooklyn goes for it, though.
I think any of those are possible, as long as the deal gets Sac under the cap. If your thinking they already have breached the cap so they are planning to be tax-payers anyway, they are planning on trading away enough to get back under the threshold, and get Vivek his money.
The Kings are quite a bit above the cap, but are below the tax line, so they do have some wiggle room.
Doesn’t Brooklyn also have DaRon Sharpe?
If Clowney was proven, I would trade for him, but he is not.
If Kings trade to Nets must include Huerter and simply must include Jalen (the 2-week window for aggregation is approaching) and Kings have some trade exceptions, I think. Johnson would replace Huerter’s shooting and DFS would add to 3-4 depth. Might have to include pick(s) I wonder if Nets would take C. Jones + Jalen + Huerter? and no picks. Pipe dream. Nets are projected as worst team in league. They want to join the Cooper Flagg race so picks are important although Kings cannot give up 2025 FRP.
Yeah, they definitely want picks. My guess is that they currently want a first rounder as a starting point for both DFS and Johnson.
IMO, DFS and his PO for the following season are not worth a first and that price will come down closer to the deadline.
Johnson, on the other hand, is likely worth a future protected first. Would they take Huerter, McDaniels, and a protected future first? Who knows, but does Monte also want to tie up draft capital that long like how he did in the Huerter trade?
In all honesty, is Johnson that much better than Huerter, especially when you take into consideration their contracts? I should also point out the Johnson is quite injury prone and older than Huerter.
I heard Vivek isn’t getting his tax-receiver check unless they shed a few million dollars. I’m confused as to why. The salary cap isn’t as simple as it used to be. I also heard they are hard-capped.
Yeah, they are hard capped because of the S&T deal they made for DeRozan. From what I understand, that means they can’t spend into the first apron even if they wanted to. Baring their cap holds for guys like McGee, they should be around $5M under the first apron. Hence, the wiggle room.
We should also note that Monte did create some nice trade exceptions with the Sasha, Davion, and Duarte trades and has one year to use them, if he so wishes.
HoopsHype has Sac at $176,412,914 with 16 contracts partially, or fully guaranteed. I believe the tax-line is $178m, first apron $182. So technically, the $5m sounds right for the first apron. Are they capped at $178, or $182? In practical terms, I believe they are currently on course to breach the threshold, and will cut salary before season end.
In other words, are you sure there’s “wiggle room?” or are you just doing your own math? It gets really fuzzy with all the stipulations. Even experts get it wrong, but the experts I listen to say they need to cut, or no tax-receiver check.
By wiggle room, I meant below the first apron, but for all I know they may be hard-capped at the tax line, which means very very little wiggle room.
I don’t believe HoopsHype is correct. They also have the Kings with Skal and and Boogie Ellis under contract, which is inaccurate. I prefer to use Spotrac for salary info. They have the Kings just below $169.7M in taxable allocations with nearly $6M in free agent cap holds (which are non-taxable but affect the spending cap) As of today, they are just over $1M below the tax line.
That salary cap line is at $140M, while the tax line is at $170.8M, and the first apron line is at $178M. Why there are so many levels is beyond me. I don’t know why the tax line isn’t the same as the first apron.
Boogie and Skal both are on minimum deals that don’t count against the cap. I’m not saying your wrong, but it still sounds like your doing your own math. Where’s Maximus when we need him?
Skal and Boogie just have camp invites, and in all reality the same is for Orlando Robinson. He has just $500K fully guaranteed. I believe the numbers HoopsHype are using would be if their contracts become fully guaranteed.
Not sure exactly what “camp invites” means. They’ll all be cut from the main squad, with Skal and Boogie going to Stockton. Robinson probably has the best chance to stay in Sac, but if cut likely also has the best chance of being picked-up on another big-league roster. They all have partial guarantees. Technically speaking, I don’t what makes their deals any different.
Skal and Boogie are on exhibit 10 deals, which basically mean the Kings control their rights and have the ability to sign them to Stockton or even a 2-way deal. All players invited to camp have partial guarantees, but no everyone has rights to the Kings.
I believe you are correct that they will likely sign with Stockton, but their salaries reflected on HoopsHype is shouldn’t be added the Kings current cap sheet. They are the salaries they would likely get if they made the final roster.
IMO DSF won’t help out much. In this case keep Huerter. Cam Johnson is another case. When you compare Huerter with Johnson Cam wins in almost all catagories. I would trade Huerter. Johnson has been consistant with his play all along where Huerter like last year will have his ups and downs as a shooter. My only concern with Johnson is his injuries. IMO you are taking a chance. Is it worth it? Tari Eason is not a starter on the Rockets but sort of buried in the roster. That could be a plus with the Rockets maybe listening. It might take a third team to make it happen as his contract is low or maybe add another player asa dump to make the deal. IMO Monty has the chips to do this.
T.Petty
just don’t break my heart.
After Indy acquired Pascal and went deep into the playoffs, I was pretty chapped. Part of me thought, “has Indy surpassed the Kings” and we’d never stop hearing about “who won the trade.” Now, however, with the addition of DeRozan, I feel the Kings are still better than the Pacers so hopefully the the Hali/Sabonis dialogue can be put to bed.
That all being said, Indy definitely has a “Kings East” kind of feel. They are likely not good enough to be a contender in the East, but have the firepower to make some noise.
All things even, I like Siakam over DeRozan. Considering the price of the contracts, DeRozen is better, especially as a third option. The Kings now are at #13 highest payroll, with Indy #14. I feel like as I watch the parallel fortunes of these two franchises unfold, I’m gaining new insights into the phenomenon of quantum entanglement.
I agree with you on THE TRADE. It’s a done deal. Let it ly. Let’s move on to other things. I really like Derosan but he hasn’t played a game yet. He has the credentials. Let’s see how things wotk out with He and Fox or Sabonis. If it does and IMO it will then we have really moved up the ladder for 2 or 3 years. IMO we still need one more player either someone like Johnson on offense, which by the way is better than Huerter in almost all catagories, or a defensive player like Stewart or Collins(not Kuzma) to round out the roster. PS. I really can’t wait to see Carter play. From what I know listening to many others and watching him play he might be a really good addition to the King’s roster.
I would be surprised if Huerter got traded. He had an off year but is still the best pure shooter on the roster. IMO he’ll go into training camp as the starter and the job will be his to win or lose.
He’s gonna have to beat out Ellis who started the final 20 games of the season and in that time shot 45% from 3, and was the lead POA defender.
I’m anticipating a training camp battle between Ellis and Huerter. I wish training camp began on Monday. These dog days of the off-season are killing me.
And don’t forget, Monk says he would like to start. Should be a fun camp.
The sceptic in me keeps looking at that small sample size of Ellis’ shooting and wondering if he can replicate that.
At least his D is still valuable. If Huerter isn’t hitting shots a relatively high clip, he’s a liability.
I’m not all that sure that Huerter is an elite shooter. He’s topped 40% from deep just once and his career averages are just good. Truth be told, his outside shooting was on par with Barnes. In the end, I’m not sure Ellis has to maintain 45% from deep. If he can just stay around 38% and a higher clip, he’d replicate Huerter.
I also am not sure as an elite shooter. Cam Johnson is and has proven that over the last few years. He does have some injury problems so lets see how it works out.
Cam Johnson elite? …ok he was #72 in total 3pt shots made last season.
My personal opinion backed by only my own feelings and perspective is that the starting spot is Huerter’s to lose. Of Huerter does not get his shot back then he will likely lose the starting role. If there is any actual intention to start Monk then he clearly gets that spot. That would would leave the depth chart at Monk > Huerter > Ellis.
Just my thoughts.
Huerter starting again is the worst idea since KZ Okpala. And Ellis’ shooting sample really isn’t all that small, acknowledge him.
I like Ellis starting because every team can have one guy whose role is D but not two guys where you don’t have to guard either (HB + Ellis). Keon plays good D, inspires Fox and hits the open shot when left un-guarded. With DDR he will be un-guarded. NOP do this with H. Jones, old SAS with Bown, duds with Day-day etc.
I like Monk from the bench -free reign. Ellis has value in setting the defensive tone.
KZ was mistakenly put in that spot for the same reason but man, that did NOT work out.
Huerter starting means redundant offense- not enough balls or shots and minimal D.
It’s such an obvious conclusion.
I don’t mind the playoff differences last year. Crazy West vs weak East.
East has improved.
Still considerably worse than the West though.
Without any great in depth analysis I think that the Eastern conference has more weak teams than the Western conference. The top teams in the Eastern conference are much stronger than the top teams in the Western conference.
I think the championships are heading East for a bit.
yes. but over all IMO cannot be described as “weak’
I truly enjoy watching the Pacers play. Haliburton is special and is going to win some rings,
The Pacers are what the Kings could be.
The Pacers are what the Kings would be if they were in the east.
Not even close. I agree to disagree with you.
The parallels between the two teams are “spooky.” The Kings finished 46-36. The Pacers were 47-35 in a weaker east. Their payrolls are almost identical. They got hot at the right time last season, and Sac fizzled. One may rise while the other falls, but the two exchanged pieces so essential to their cores that their fates are forever inextricably linked. The Pacers are the dark spot on the bright side of the Kings yin-yang, and vice-versa.
The Pacers ran deep into the playoffs. They were that good. Not hot for a week or two. The Kings rolled over and allowed the lesser teams of the NBA to keep them out of the playoffs.
Two different teams. One has a determined winning culture established. The other team is along for the ride. The trade was one event not an eternal link. Haliburton is next level talent just beginning his run.
Get back to me when he has “some rings” or even one ring. How many does he have now?
As many as Fox and Domas combined.
And he won a play-off series. Fox doesn’t even have that on his resume.
Chris Webber doesn’t have a ring either. Bill Wennington has two…
I would love to see Fox, Domas, and Haliburton battle each other in a ring count.
That means championshipsin Sacramento!
There are two points being made here. In the last sentence you make the point that talent and number of rings are not strictly correlated. Obviously correct. Who said they were?
Above that sentence you compare the accomplishments of Halliburton’s teams to those of the Kings. But I said nothing about that isssue.
SJT predicted ”some rings” for Halliburton. Maybe. It’s not obvious to me, either for him as an individual or for the Pacers. Rings are hard to come by. Many great players have none. None of Siakam, Halliburton, Fox or Sabonis has proven to be a great player. Very good, yes. Great? Let’s see. Rings? Another improbable, both for players and teams. Hard to predict. That’s my view.
Domas has been in the NBA twice as long as TH and I believe has never won a playoff series. TH won a series last year and the Pacers held up well against the eventual champs and if TH doesn’t get hurt, who knows.
TH has accomplished more meaningful winning than Sabonis in half the time.
You going to be in this chat ten to fourteen years from now to check the tally?
Pacers top 5 (by $)
Haliburton ($42M)
Siakam ($42M)
Turner ($20M)
Toppin ($13M)
Nesmith ($11M)
Total $128M
Kings top 5 (by $)
Sabonis ($40.5M)
Fox ($35M)
DeRozan ($23.5M)
Monk ($17.5M)
Huerter ($17M)
Total $133.5M
On the young’un side: Nembhard, Shephard, Mathurin, Beef Stew vs. Keegan and Devin Carter.
On the bench: Don’t forget TJ McCcnell, for Sac – Trey Lyles.
Neither team is very big or long. I see the Kings as having slightly better veteran talent, Indy’s got some nice youth though with Hali & Co. (I particularly like Mathurin). I like them better than Orlando though Magic are bigger a d younger. gw
A fantasy playoff series between these two: I see a 7 gamer.
Interesting salary breakdown and something to keep track of with the new CBA. One thing the Kings have going for them is a likely Keegan rookie extension and Fox max extension will kick in when Huerter’s salary comes off the books. Monte has things lined up nicely.
Indy, on the other hand, have McConnell and Myles Turner as a free and clear UFA next summer. They are going to have to pay Turner to keep any semblance of defensive pressure. They also have Nembhard’s extension kicking in next season. Then they are also gonna have to figure out how to pay Mathurian. I see a similar situation with New Orleans. They have quality depth, but really no way to pay everyone.
From all that, I like the Kings’ future cap projections better.
Avoiding the Turner dilemma is why Monte wasn’t willing to add another max contract in Siakam. They got a quick talent bump from that deal, but there will be cap repercussions. I hear Mathurin may end up as the cap casualty.
Mathurin will excel for that team that needs a scoring SG, IMO. To me, he’s a scrappy, feisty, Devin Booker-lite type talent – he doesn’t have Book’s grace, but he does have his drive.
He doesn’t fit on Sac, but put him in LA (C or L), or DEN with KCP gone, and he’s gonna score you some points. He’s a guy who’s gonna want the ball and the minutes.
I like him too, but did they give his money to Nembhard?
They did, but I think they see him as the eventual TJ McConnell replacement after this upcoming season. Nembhard’s extension doesn’t kick in until next season, once TJ is off the books.
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