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Report: Kings shopping the 13th pick, were “close” on Caruso

It's frustrating to hear, again, that the Kings were close to a deal but didn't get it done.
By | 166 Comments | Jun 24, 2024

Dec 4, 2022; Sacramento, California, USA; Chicago Bulls guard Alex Caruso (6) reacts during the third quarter against the Sacramento Kings at Golden 1 Center. Mandatory Credit: Stan Szeto-USA TODAY Sports

The Sacramento Kings are actively shopping the 13th pick in the upcoming NBA Draft, according to a new report from The Athletic’s Anthony Slater and Sam Amick. While we’ve heard rumors that the Kings were shopping the 13th pick for weeks now, Slater and Amick also report that the Kings were close to a deal for Alex Caruso last week, and that deal would have included the 13th pick.

The Kings already tried to use it for a significant roster upgrade. They were close to a trade for defensive ace Alex Caruso last week, according to league sources, offering the No. 13 pick to Chicago as the key chip. The Bulls, to the surprise of many within the league, instead opted to send Caruso to Oklahoma City for Josh Giddey.

It’s no surprise that the Kings are shopping the pick. The Kings are absolutely in improve-now mode. Falling short of the playoffs last year was a big disappointment, even if the Kings record wasn’t much different despite a much tougher Western Conference. It’s also not surprising to hear the Kings wanted Caruso, especially after last week’s reports of Sacramento’s interest. Caruso has been a trade target we’ve loved around here for a while. Caruso is a little older than Sacramento’s core of De’Aaron Fox, Domantas Sabonis, Keegan Murray, and the newly re-signed Malik Monk, but Caruso provides and ideal balance of outside shooting, basketball IQ, and hard-nosed defense.

Worth noting: Slater and Amick report that the Kings could still be interest in Zach LaVine, but would need to be incentivized (read: draft picks or other good players) to take on LaVine’s massive contract.

What’s sadly unsurprising is hearing that the Sacramento Kings, once again, were near a trade for an impactful player only for it to fall apart at the last second. The Kings have failed to make a major acquisition at the last two trade deadlines, and all of last offseason. The Kings are regularly reported as being close to deals, only to have another team swoop in and match or beat Sacramento’s offer. The Kings front office is chasing the exact right types of players, but they are perpetually unable to get deals made. If the Kings are truly aggressive in trying to improve this team, that’s going to mean doing what it takes to complete deals. No team wants to lose a trade, but failing to do anything is still losing, just slower.

It should be a busy couple days as we lead up to the first round of the draft on Wednesday.

 

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Jman1949
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June 24, 2024 12:34 pm

comment image&ct=g

RobHessing
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June 24, 2024 12:40 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Let’s hope that the rest of the off season is not just one big cone of silence.
comment image

UpgradedToQuestionable
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June 24, 2024 12:49 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

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The deal was 86-ed!

(there was a betterdeal two days ago!).

Why are deals bypassing the Kings? Is it a sports agent thing?

A bit of point of contention:
Why isn’t Keon Ellis considered a Core player? He’s a starter and he’s signed on for the next 2 seasons.

Last edited 27 days ago by UpgradedToQuestionable
RobHessing
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June 24, 2024 12:51 pm

In this case, I think that Giddey > 13. Now, would the 13 + (say) Huerter be better? Maybe (maybe not), but I’m not sure that I would want to give up that much to get Caruso.

Last edited 27 days ago by RobHessing
MidtownMike
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June 24, 2024 3:32 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Exactly, don’t get fleeced just because you want a deal for deal sakes. I’m glad monte at the helm

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 1:47 pm

It’s because the Kings are too Fucking conservative. It’s like they refuse to risk anything because they don’t want to lose what they have?

This is not the approach that lands deals. Gotta be willing to part with almost anyone.

They keep taking about not wanting to sacrifice the future with bad deals. Well, the future is already here.

Do something! No more excuses. Like, why not add more to the deal with Chicago.

and this also might speak to the notion that Monte has brought in players that aren’t wonderful assets.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2024 2:53 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

I have a sneaking feeling we make a legit move this week. Just wait and see.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:02 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I hope so.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:22 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Something needs to happen.

RobHessing
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June 24, 2024 2:54 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Do something! No more excuses. Like, why not add more to the deal with Chicago.

So if Chicago likes Giddey (and they obviously do or they would not have made the deal), what is the deal that puts the Kings out in front of that? If I’m Chicago and I like Giddey, the deal would have to be the 13 and Ellis, and if I’m the Kings I’m not making that deal. I would do the 13 and Huerter, but I don’t know if the Bulls do that deal.

28 teams did not trade for Caruso or Giddey. The Kings were one of those 28.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:01 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Exactly. And what if the Giddey deal was only available for a short time, sobthe Bulls had to make a decision quickly?

The 13th pick is a gamble, Giddey they at least know what they are getting.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:11 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Ellis is untradeable. Haliburton can go but not Ellis. No way.

RobHessing
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June 24, 2024 3:13 pm

Ellis is absolutely tradeable. The question is, would you trade him and the 13 for Caruso? I would not. Your mileage may vary.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:19 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

It then comes down to cost and contracts. Caruso has 1 year left at $9.8m, and then need think about will he re-sign. Also 31 next season.

Keon is younger, makes substantially less (not as good a player as Caruso).

13th pick has value as well. Probably better used to get a PF like ABB has mentioned that the Kings need to get anyway.

Spend the assets on a more pressing need, like a starting PF.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:21 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

We need a power forward….but I can trade two undersized shooting guards for three more undersized shooting guards.

Maybe we get lucky with 13 and get another point guard?

Power forwards are hard to find.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:19 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Not for Caruso. For a real power forward…most definitely.

RobHessing
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June 24, 2024 3:40 pm

For sure.

And make no mistake – I get the impatience that is felt around here, and agree with a bit of it. It has always seemed to me that Monte has his valuations and refuses to budge off of them, and if that is true it is to the detriment to the growth of this team.

The 13 and Ellis for Portis or Jerami Grant? I’d do it. The 13 and Ellis for Collins or Kuzma? I’m probably less enthused.

Last edited 27 days ago by RobHessing
Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2024 5:33 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Ellis? No. #13 and Davion? Sure. And, dollar 4 dolla, I also like Grant better than Kuzma. On their current respective contracts? I’ll take Kuzma.
Huerter, Mitchell, and #13, for Kuzma, just makes so much sense on so many levels for both sides.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 6:56 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I hope the reality of change is now acceptable. It is necessary to win.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2024 5:05 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Don’t take the bait, the obtuseness on his part, deliberate or not, is very real, and very thick.

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 5:56 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Ding ding ding! Every article here is flooded with about 15% of the total posts by that person and they have to have the last word on every thread.

Last edited 27 days ago by BuiltToSpill
TImorous_Me
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June 24, 2024 6:44 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

We seriously need an ignore function on here. It’s frustrating when one person makes it hard to wade into any comments section these days.

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 7:02 pm
Reply to  TImorous_Me

No doubt. I just counted 25 posts by that one person. At this time, there are a total of 115 across all participants. Most of that person’s posts are repetitive, too. An ignore function would be really appreciated.

Last edited 27 days ago by BuiltToSpill
AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:08 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

26…27..

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:10 pm
Reply to  TImorous_Me

Nice to meet you.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:09 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Boo!

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2024 3:36 pm

Return matters. 13 plus keon for Caruso is terrible

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 7:01 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

That is a shit trade.

13 plus Keon plus X plus y plus whatever to get a real power forward is entirely possible and ok.

Daydreamer
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June 24, 2024 7:24 pm

I thought Keon is a G-leaguer—in your opinion.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:08 pm
Reply to  Daydreamer

He was.

Daydreamer
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June 24, 2024 8:32 pm

Did you change your mind? After writing that he was a G-leaguer about 300 times, did you decide that you had been wrong? Do you find it difficult to admit error? If so, maybe that’s a problem.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:51 pm
Reply to  Daydreamer

I wrote many times about pinning the hopes of this team on G leaguer. Accepting that as the best they could do.

If only they kept Queta!!! What could have been?

Ellis is an average player so far. Kings are an average team. I think the goal should be championships.

I wrote about that often and clearly.

Do you find it difficult to read what is written?

Easy to be you.

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2024 3:33 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Pump the brakes lol

SactownLegendz
June 24, 2024 4:16 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Not even that disappointed anyway, was a fan of getting Caruso up until the deadline but with Keon’s emergence, Caruso is kind of redundant…we have the next Caruso, and is younger/cheaper. Should be going after long athletic wings, or a shot blocking PF like Collins to play beside Domas….if Collins was better of course lol

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2024 7:45 pm

I think Ellis is considered a core player by the FO at least. A big part of that is his production vs cost, as Ellis’s play on the court gives you a productive player at a bargain price.

Under the new CBA, players like Ellis that can give you production on the court while also costing almost nothing salary cap-wise is extremely valuable; it’s was why Caruso is currently so valuable leaguewide, you can drop him in any roster config and get All-NBA Def production for less than the standard MLE. I bet his value drops considerably if he signs a new contract at $25M+.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:11 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Also why Ellis can bring talent in a trade.

Good place to be.

oswan88
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June 24, 2024 12:49 pm

Giddey is likely a much better player than anyone they could get at 13, no surprise here.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2024 8:02 pm
Reply to  oswan88

I disagree. I see Giddey as being a player with some high-quality attributes (playmaking and court vision), but one that you have to build your entire team around due to his inefficiencies…he doesn’t shoot well (at any level) yet and he has never heard of defense.

There are definitely better players at 13 (like Carter or Ware) who could help rebuild that team. The problem is that Chicago refuses to rebuild or commit to spending any real money to get better. They plan to bring back DeRozan and P. Williams, move off of Lavine and Vuc somehow (I don’t think they’ll be able to) and run it back with White and Giddey in the backcourt moving Ayo back to the bench (big mistake IMO), DDR at SF, PW at PF, and someone at C (most likely Vuc) with little to no depth besides Ayo & Drummond (if he comes back). A play-in team AT BEST, but still a massive money-maker for the owner who seems to have no interest in putting an actual contender together.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:06 pm
Reply to  oswan88

He is a known quantity. Not a bad choice for a rebuild team.

AmateurNerd
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June 24, 2024 12:50 pm

McNair is very disciplined about sticking to his valuation of players once the valuation has been made. If he determines a player is worth X, and another team offers X+1, he will not bid X+2 to make the deal. It’s why he has never (to this point) made a significant trade mistake or FA mistake, but also why he seems to get outbid regularly. He refuses to “overpay” (in his estimation) for a target.

Last edited 27 days ago by AmateurNerd
RikSmits
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June 24, 2024 1:38 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Seems like it.
But at some
point he must feel the pressure and time ticking and take a swing.
I’m not very interested in almost.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 1:49 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Right. But the time to overpay is now. That’s just how it goes Monte.

It reminds me of being in fantasy football league. you think you can get what you want without giving up really what you think you should give up.

AmateurNerd
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June 24, 2024 3:49 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

IMHO, Monte’s approach is what got the Kings out of the cellar and into the ranks of Teams That Can Be Taken Seriously… and that’s no small feat. “Not shooting yourself in the foot” is a great strategy to move from bad to respectable, and it’s something sixteen years’ worth of previous FOs in Sac were unable to accomplish (not to mention several current FOs in other cities around the league). That said, I agree 100% the approach needs to become more aggressive now that a foundation of competence has been laid. I don’t fault Monte for playing it safe last offseason–there were enough signs that this was the right, or at least a right, thing to do–but I will if he repeats himself this time around.

Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2024 5:36 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

The time to overpay is never

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 6:02 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Overall, I agree with you. But in fairness, if a team is one piece away from a serious championship run and that piece becomes available, go ahead and overpay a little. The Kings are not one piece away.

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 6:38 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Totally agree.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:41 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Still the same team and missed the playoffs again.

The positive is we didn’t give up Davion, Duarte, or Jones for a player that improves the team. The rest of the NBA was willing to give that much. The value isn’t there though. Too much.

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2024 3:39 pm

Giddey is 5x the asset of those players you listed. Step back from the ledge

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 7:10 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

No ledge in sight.

Sarcasm.

Maybe 4x the asset?

We agree. That is allowed. You are ok. Breathe.

AmateurNerd
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June 24, 2024 3:51 pm

Honestly, what “player that improves the team” were you ever going to get for Davion, Duarte, or Jones last season? You want a trade exception and a pick swap with that, too? Last I checked, Vlade isn’t the GM of another NBA team that you can call with this offer.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 7:12 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

That is my point.

None of those players are going to get anything needed in return.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 24, 2024 12:51 pm

I’m not sure how the Kings could have traded away the #13 prior to the draft. They only way they’d be allowed to do that is to acquire another first this year. Could the possible deal have included the Bulls #11?

UpgradedToQuestionable
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June 24, 2024 12:59 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It might be another reason it didn’t happen. It couldn’t happen until draft night and the timing might have tipped the scales.

Who knows?

The #13 is $12M/3 years, Josh Giddey is 24, finishing his rookie deal, and has just this season left at $8.3M, then RFA. And maybe Marc Eversley (Bulls GM) hates draft picks (because why else didn’t he insist to include some draft capital from OKC, who is overflowing with picks. They have some crazy number of picks/swaps possible next season).

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 1:05 pm

Or it could have been there was a deal discussed in terms to happen on draft night, but then Monk re-signed and the Kings pulled the deal. Maybe the Kings didn’t miss, but instead went in another direction?

murraytant
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June 24, 2024 1:07 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Monk signing early changed everything. At that point, no need for LaVine for example.

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 1:15 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Yup, and it made Monte’s job a hell of a lot easier.

murraytant
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June 24, 2024 1:06 pm

Because of fit, I would give up #13 for Caruso.
From the Bulls side- Giddey looked better than #13 or any of the players they would get for either Caruso alone or Caruso + LaVine.

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2024 3:48 pm

Giddey 21 i believe

AmateurNerd
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June 24, 2024 3:52 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

And his romantic interest definitely isn’t!

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:55 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

comment image

RobHessing
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June 24, 2024 4:04 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Chicago, Chicago. That toddler town!

murraytant
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June 24, 2024 1:03 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Technically you are correct, according to the CBA but they would “trade” #13 in theory, commit to it, that is, and the official trade occurs after the pick is made. That gets around the Septien Rule. Pick for another team in other words.
Caruso is a good player but you lose #13 and where does he play? SF with Keegan going to the 4 spot? That is a small team. And it is tough to play Caruso and Keon at the same time since neither has to be guarded. IMO the trade included both Caruso and LaVine for players + #13 but not a pick swap.
Bulls split LaVine and Caruso and took a guy they wanted Giddey.
I would rather have Kuzma- not because he is necessarily a better player, but he can play WITH Keon. Kings need a guy who can go get a bucket- a guy other teams have to guard.
Just not sure a rookie at #13 will or can make an impact. Going into the season with HB and a fractured Huerter does not feel good.
IMO Kings talked to Malik and said these were the deals pending. Not straight out tell him but hints through his agent.

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 2:31 pm
Reply to  murraytant

I loved the idea of Caruso at the 2023-24 trade deadline. But for all the reasons you mention, I don’t see how he fits with the Kings now that Keon has (hopefully) solidified a spot in the starting lineup. I’m personally glad this deal didn’t happen. I’d rather use the 13 in a deal for an HB replacement than to pick up a good but somewhat redundant player.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2024 2:56 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

I agree, with Ellis’ emergence, a player like Caruso isn’t as critical. What is critical is addressing the starting PF position and that’s where MMs focus should be these next few days.

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 6:05 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Exactly. I have no problem with kicking the tires on a player like Caruso. I am also happy that they aren’t so enamored with him that they made a dumb play for him.

murraytant
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June 24, 2024 3:14 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

yes. Caruso redundant with Keon. Not the same but close. Kings need a 3/4 with length. Don’t waste the #13 on neither of those.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:18 pm
Reply to  murraytant

A true 4. No more shooting guards that are willing to playing the 4.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2024 5:14 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Caruso is a 38% career shooter from three, 40.8% last year.

Ellis is 42.2% for is career, 41.7% last season.

If the conventional wisdom is that neither need to be covered, I’d argue that the conventional wisdom is about is useless as it has generally proven to be.

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 6:07 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I agree there, too. Teams don’t feel the need to cover Ellis yet because he’s not known around the league. Keep shooting 40%+ and you can be damn sure they’re going to have to cover him.

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 1:25 pm

OT: Amick over at the Athletic (paywall) just posted a subtle little bomb (IMO) about Fox. He has heard Fox WILL NOT sign an extension this summer because he wants to see how things play out with the roster.

Keep in mind, Fox may be eligible for a an even larger max deal if he makes All-NBA this next season. That is fine and all, but in my opinion it could also mean the Kings go into next summer with Fox having only year remaining. If this season goes sideways and Fox doesn’t have an extension in place, the Kings run the risk of him walking in UFA in 2026.

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 1:37 pm
Reply to  Greg

Oh, I totally get why Fox would wait. He’s banking on himself, which is totally fine. It was Amick’s (who I respect greatly) exact verbage of:

because he wants to see how the roster takes shape for the long-haul

That is what made me do a double take.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 1:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Whether true or not, the Kings can’t keep sitting in their hands, imagining this roster has what it takes. Not willing to go into tax threshold.

Make moves now or the Kings will never move forward.

It just feels like this stubborn approach that they like their team and think they have enough to make a run. That’s what they thought last year.

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 2:34 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Given the number of discussions they’re already involved in this offseason, it feels a little reactionary to assume they like the team and think they have enough to make a run. It’s clear to me that they aren’t content with this roster at all.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 2:47 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

First, they should have made moves last year and there were so called discussions last year too.

If they really see that what they have isn’t enough they’d do more/offer more for Caruso etc.

it’s not reactionary. I’m only posting what I see from this FO. Conservative.

Time will tell. If they make deals this summer, fine. But they are behind the 8 ball

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:51 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

I cannot imagine a deal for Caruso is impossible.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 2:52 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

It’s all speculation from reporters getting intel from somebody involved in the situation. We don’t know what was offered, what was coming back, how the timing of the deal would work because they can’t trade the pick until it is selected, etc.

At least it seems like the right players are being targeted. Eventually something has to happen, but giving up too much might not be the way to go (see Phoenix and Bradley Beal for example)

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:54 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

At least Phoenix tried to win.

It is proven that this roster doesn’t do anything in the West.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 2:58 pm

They tried, and it went to crap as a lot of people thought. Now they are a 2nd apron team, almost no draft picks, have 1 aging star, another that gets hurt all the time, and bitch ass Devin Booker. Bleak future.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:01 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Yes. They actually did try to win by changing a roster that had proven it wasn’t going to make a run.

They have more talent than the Kings. They can build around the talent or trade the talent.

A deal for Booker/Beal or a deal for Barnes/Sasha/Davion/Huerter?

Last edited 27 days ago by AnybodyButBagley
murraytant
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June 24, 2024 3:17 pm

Don’t want Beal. And can they package players in trade? are they not over some apron or in some tax bracket that precludes that?

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:25 pm
Reply to  murraytant

I don’t want Beal either.

If you were looking for player would you take Davion or Beal?

They have assets other teams are willing to trade something for. They are in a tight spot but with some creative deals they get back to a new reality quickly.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:28 pm

Do you want maybe the worst contract in the league for a guy that plays 50-55 games a season?

That’s a hard to deal to unload given that Phoenix has no other assets.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 7:17 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

From a contract standpoint no. For a talented player that might push a team over the edge in the right direction for a playoff push yes.

Someone will do that deal to win.

Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2024 5:41 pm

The Suns are going nowhere fast. Bet it!

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 7:16 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

How about the Kings for the last two decades?

Keep running it back.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2024 3:03 pm

At least Phoenix tried to win.

They’re also royally f’kd with no chance of competing for a title in the forseeable future, the younger teams in the West have past them by and they have no assets to improve the team and are stuck with the worst contract in the NBA (Beal).

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:05 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

How are the Kings stacking up in the West?

Run it back.

Durant sucks. Definitely a liability worth nothing. Sasha for KD.

Stay out of the playoffs or make a choice to get better. If it doesn’t work try again.

Last edited 27 days ago by AnybodyButBagley
BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 2:52 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

We need to get HB out of the starting lineup. Caruso doesn’t move the needle for me in terms of taking the Kings to the next level is all I’m saying.

I agree they should have made moves last year. And they need to do something this year. I’m just not losing sleep over whiffing on either Caruso or Lavine / Caruso.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 2:54 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

I agree with you on that. I like Curuso a lot but maybe they need different positions. I hate Lavine

murraytant
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June 24, 2024 3:21 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Going back to my mantra (I feel like I am Jack, always repeating) Keon is a wiz on D. He inspires Fox, D is better, but teams don’t guard him. Cannot have 2 guys that teams don’t guard. HB + Keon= bad. Keon + Caruso= bad.
Get a 3/4 who is a threat, and this allows Keon to m optimize his talents.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:50 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Discussions and actions are not the same.

I like Caruso. Do you?

Yeah….

Should we get him?

Maybe….

Ok, let me call them and talk about it.

He still there?

Nope.

jlandweh
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June 24, 2024 2:13 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I completely agree and actually appreciate this type of honesty from Fox. He wants to bet on himself but also wants to play for a winner and in meaningful games. I think a lot of players feel this way, but not many will actually come out and say it.

Glad if this did come from Fox that he is being honest. Way better than signing the extension and then forcing his way out via trade if things go south.

Also now he puts the Kings officially on the clock-which we can all agree is a good thing. Make moves or I’m gone.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:45 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Fox is smart. He wants to win. He can get paid and win.

I honestly don’t think Fox is the key piece of this team. Fox leaving might actually break open the gates that allow this team to build a better roster.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 2:50 pm

Not sure I agree about Fox but this is exactly the attitude the FO needs. Anyone is available in pursuit of making this team a championship contender. That’s how it works.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:56 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Stagnation has not worked.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:56 pm
Reply to  Greg

What is Fox telling you?

I haven’t heard from him lately.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:46 pm
Reply to  Greg

Maybe Fox truly does want to win?

More money but remain a King for eternity. Not many players desire that deal.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2024 2:59 pm
Reply to  Greg

Fox not extending has nothing to do with the roster and everything to do with the WAY bigger sum of money he can get if he makes All-NBA this season.

Exactly. It makes sense for Fox to wait until next season and at the end of the day the Kings can offer more than any other team. Not to mention, his bff just resigned so Fox isn’t planning on going anywhere anyways.
And also, we haven’t accomplished enough team success with Fox as the francshise player these seven years for me to care if he wants to test the waters.

Jack
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June 24, 2024 1:42 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

What if we can keep the #13 pick and still improve this team. My proposal.
Barnes, Mitchell, 2024 second, 2025 second, 2027 first for Kuzma.
Lyles, Vezenkov, a second for Zach Collins.
#13 pick DaRon Holmes.
Use MLE to get Naji Marshall
Starters: Foz, Ellis, Murray, Kuzma, Sabonis.
Backups: Monk, Huerter, Marshall, Holmes, Collins.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:53 pm
Reply to  Jack

Kuzma is not going to be dealt for second round picks.

Who wants Veznekov?

Lyles and Barnes are worth something to another team.

Here is my dog food that my kids won’t eat. I will take your filet mignon.

Jack
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June 24, 2024 3:29 pm

if you look again at the above comment for Kuzma 2 seconds AND A FIRST. Thatis good enough.

Jack
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June 24, 2024 3:31 pm
Reply to  Jack

Also if not Kuzma then John Collins. Might be a better fit anyway.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:36 pm
Reply to  Jack

Barnes and Mitchell are not going to replace what Kuzma does.

Two seconds…one this year and one next year. These two second round picks will definitely not be anything close to Kuzma.

The first round pick is an unguaranteed pick in three years. Meaning they have the slight opportunity of finding someone as good as Kuzma or better in three years.

For two years they get worse and pray that in three years they find the one in a million superstar.

Not a deal.

Jack
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June 24, 2024 3:38 pm

Your filet mignon cost way to much and unfourtunaely it came burnt.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 7:59 pm
Reply to  Jack

Cooked on high heat knowing it is the best possible outcome.

Never perfect but one has to do what is known to work.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 24, 2024 3:53 pm

Kuzma is not going to be dealt for second round picks.

I thought Caruso would cost a first round pick at a minimum, and yet he was dealt for a guy who was benched in the playoffs. Maybe the league is tipping back and away from the Rudy Gobert trade price.

Kuzma is best used as a 3rd to 4th best player on a good team. He’s currently marginally better than peak Harrison Barnes. Maybe he won’t cost a first after all?

Jack
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June 24, 2024 4:46 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Thank you.

ForKingsandCountry
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June 24, 2024 4:50 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I think it all it tells us is that picks in this draft aren’t worth a whole lot. I also think Josh Giddey is a much better player than one playoff series would indicate. He’s 21, was excellent two seasons ago, and his three point percentage has gone up every season. The Bulls want to rebuild and I’d easily take Giddey over the 13th pick.

Last edited 27 days ago by ForKingsandCountry
AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:01 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I don’t think Kuzma is worth a first. I doubt anyone gives up a first for him.

Kuzma is worth a comparable player and some filler. Second round picks not getting it done.

BuiltToSpill
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June 24, 2024 6:11 pm

You feed your kids dog food? Gross.

Last edited 27 days ago by BuiltToSpill
AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:02 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Bored?

DNP-CD
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June 24, 2024 2:11 pm

The Kings “could” still be interested in LaVine? I think I’m going to throw up.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 2:29 pm
Reply to  DNP-CD

Huerter, Davion, Duarte, Sasha for Lavine probably makes the Kings better.

Duarte and Sasha are non-factors for winning basketball. Davion is a highly replaceable undersized backup PG.

Huerter is mostly one dimensional offensively, and defensively on par with Lavine.

Not saying I would do that deal. Lavine does provide the team with another multi-dimensional offensive player, but he costs a shit ton and has injury concerns.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:47 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

The problem with that deal is that the only player in that group any other team desires is Huerter. The rest are contracts they have to get rid of shortly.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 2:56 pm

And I think Chicago would gladly take the salary relief as Davion and Duarte have 1 year left, as does Sasha (his 3rd year minimally guaranteed I think). That gets them out of like $80m of salary after next season with Lavine off the books.

Huerter has 2 years left at like $16m/year. If the Bulls want to cut salary to go acquire bigger fish, then they have to space to do that next offseason.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 2:59 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

After next season is the key to that statement.

Why wait year?

If they want to improve now they need salaries that expire now. They are not looking to lock in an absurdly low quality roster for a year.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:06 pm

They can’t get salaries that expire now. The Bulls have to take salary back, that’s how the CBA works.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:15 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

They can do better than players they don’t want that they have to carry for a year.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:30 pm

Lavine’s value is basement level low, so the offers probably won’t be much better .

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:32 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I understand your take on the Lavine possibility and I don’t want him here.

I just think the Bulls can find a much better and simpler process to get rid of him.

Jack
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June 24, 2024 3:33 pm

I don’t want him either. PERIOD.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 3:40 pm

I don’t really want him either. I do think if the Bulls could have moved for better, they would have moved him for better.

Maybe they want to keep him and see how it works when they are all healthy (which will be never).

Let’s just hope the players/picks the Kings have get a better PF to help next season.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:03 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Go get what is obviously needed and see what happens.

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 2:46 pm

We all know that the deal Monte makes will come out of freaking left field and catch everyone off-guard. It’s the Monte way.

So when Evan Mobley, or Julius Randle, or Cam Johnson, (example players, not what I think will happen. Don’t come at me) end up in a King’s uniform this next season, I won’t be surprised.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 2:52 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

As Joe Gibbs used to say when guiding Washington to Superbowls…..”let us 🙏 pray”.

Id love Mobley. Though the kings don’t even need an all star/etc. just a couple pieces that fit

Hobby916
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June 24, 2024 2:59 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

The players listed were just random names I thought of. No way Mobley gets traded to Sac.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2024 3:20 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I realize that. Just fantasizing.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 3:28 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

I think it is time to allow the fantasies to become a reality.

Why not?

Jack
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June 24, 2024 3:35 pm

I agree.

eddie41
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June 24, 2024 2:57 pm

it was only a few days ago when most of us were thrilled that the Kings re-signed Monk.

I think it’s okay that the Kings did not get Caruso and still have the 13th pick.

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2024 3:31 pm

I don’t quite think it’s fair to put it on Monte. If most of the league would of taken 1st and filler but chi chooses to roll with giddey it is what it is. I don’t want to get burned just to make a deal.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2024 5:03 pm

It’s frustrating to hear, again, that the Kings were close to a deal but didn’t get it done.

Conversely, it’s comforting to read that the Kings won’t overpay on deals, particularly since there’s no information regarding the matching salary that Chicago wanted.

If the Bulls value Josh Giddey over a late lottery pick, I’d feel no obligation to give away more to make a very poorly run organization happy.

Mike120
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June 24, 2024 5:40 pm

I’m not upset about this. We don’t know what Chicago was asking. I’d rather draft an athletic PF at 13 than bring on Caruso.

Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2024 6:26 pm

Eight player rotation: 2 bigs: Sabonis, ?
3 wings: Murray, Barnes, Lyles
3 guards: Fox, Ellis, Monk
Len can’t be relied upon for regular rotation minutes. If they can improve with another wing, play Lyles behind Sabonis. Obviously they can improve many spots, but as the roster is now, the hole in the rotation is backup big.

Improved rotation: Sabonis, Lyles
Kuzma, Murray, Barnes,
Fox, Ellis, Monk

Assuming they trade Huerter/Mitchell, and #13 for Kuzma, they can re-sign Len and Edwards to be 9th and 11th, Jones is probably 10th. Now that the rotation is set with veterans, draft BPA, and let the rookies endeavor to break their way in. No pressure, no unrealistic expectations. Then try to trade back into the end of the 1st round (picks are rumored to be available) with Duarte/Vezenkov for anther bigman prospect, that’s 12. Second round pick makes 13, and a couple two-ways makes a full 15. Or Monte can use the MLE if there’s room under under the cap apron. Naji Marshall would be great on a reasonable deal.

That’s kinda how I’m seeing it right now.

JoeNoSay
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June 24, 2024 7:38 pm

Just spitballing here…

What if we could trade down out of the 13th for two later picks? This seems like a weaker draft, but with some good potential down the road.

I really would like to see us pick up Ryan Dunn. Perhaps his offense can develop, but I’ve read that he is similar to Thybulle, who a lot of people wanted the Kings to trade for.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 8:13 pm
Reply to  JoeNoSay

Play two hands instead of one. Could work?

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2024 8:17 pm
Reply to  JoeNoSay

Dunn makes Thybulle look like Reggie Miller.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 24, 2024 8:40 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Or he could be Tony Allen with rim protection.

I find it unfair to favor offensive threats who play no defense over defensive stoppers with no jumper. Both have value, IMO, but there is one thing that we know wins championships. Defense.

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 8:48 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’ll also add, Dunn is projected late first round to early second round material. If you can get that kind of defender, regardless of his offensive problems, on that kind of rookie deal, I think you have to take it.

I’ll just point out that Herb Jones shot 44% from the field, 28% from 3 and just 60% from the charity stripe in 4 years at Alabama. He’s now an all-nba defensive team member and is slated to take Ingram’s spot in the rotation. He was also 2nd round material that couldn’t shoot.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2024 11:45 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I was mostly kidding.

In another post I was stating how much I like Dunn’s game.

SelecaoKOJ
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June 24, 2024 8:29 pm

I may be in the minority here. But Ellis is not a starter for any playoff team in either conference. He just isn’t. He’s a good defender who really hasn’t proven anything on offense. If that’s you’re starting 2 guard going into the season. I would say he’s massively overrated by Kings fans as a whole. Hes a nice back up. A starter. Not seeing it. At all

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 8:37 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

That’s totally fair and a small sample size may prove you are right. I would just look to the stats as a team when he was starting for the Kings towards the end of the season. He’s by no means a star, or even a primary offensive weapon, but the team showed significant improvement on the defensive end.

I don’t think he’ll ever be more than a 12ppg player, but his defense at least hints at a Crauso, Thybulle, Smart type of POA impact. If the Kings can get that kind of defensive production at his cost, it’s an absolute win. Think Doug Christie 2.0

To put it bluntly, he makes Davion Mitchell’s perceived defensive attributes seem average, but Ellis has also shown to be a significant threat from deep. A legit 3 and D off guard is what Fox needs next to him and Sabonis needs to kick out to. Time will tell, but I’m willing to give it a shot.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2024 8:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I look at Keon as a force multiplier (much like the names you mentioned above). Maybe his nickname should be “Fulcrum”.

Adamsite
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June 24, 2024 9:20 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Yes, much like Christie, he’s a sum is greater than their parts “multiplier.” Fingers crossed.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 9:05 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I wonder how his scoring changes as the scouts figure him out?

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 24, 2024 9:19 pm

True, and I guess that’s in the wait and see perspective. Can he and the coaching staff adapt? It seems teams “figured out” Keegan and DHO a bit this year. Every year is an adaptation and evolution. I’m optimistic that both Keegan and Ellis can notch it up, and I have a feeling Monte is as well.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 9:56 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I think most NBA players hit that wall when other teams figure them out. The good ones develop other tools. One dimensional players are exposed,

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2024 11:48 pm

That will be interesting to see, but I don’t think they can do much about his scoring opportunities. Most of Ellis’ points came from side or corner catch and shoot 3s.

Unless someone can figure how to prevent spacing, there isn’t much a team can do except get longer (looks at NOP).

AnybodyButBagley
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June 25, 2024 7:35 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

At least there is hope.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 9:04 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Average player that isn’t a scorer at this point.

Much more than anyone ever thought he was.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2024 8:47 pm

If Holland is still on the board at 13, I hope they draft him and keep him.

I don’t hate trading for Kuzma, but I don’t like it. I don’t think he cares about winning that much, and while that is not an absolute imperative in a player to be acquired for a certain role, it is required in a player the Kings are giving up assets for.

I don’t hate trading for Collins, but I’m mostly indifferent to the idea. I don’t think he’s a better player overall than Barnes, but I do think he is a better fit at PF between Domas and Murray. I also think Collins could be had for less and if HB could be retained in the trade, then I would feel better about it. HB is still a good player and I think he’ll be even better in a lesser but more clearly-defined role at this stage in his career.

I still think trading for T. Eason is the best play. Maybe trade the 13, Huerter (or Davion if they prefer), and whatever additional assets (most likely a few 2nds or maybe Sasha) to make it worth it to Houston to move off a good young player they aren’t using. HOU could use a reliable sharpshooting wing (unless they get Sheppard) and they have a glut of forwards. Eason is an excellent fit for this particular roster and his contract is by far the least expensive of the three (Team Option of $4M in 2025 and $6M in 2026).

If there are enough savings available through any draft-day moves, I really hope they find a way to sign Simone Fontecchio through FA.

Hobby916
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June 25, 2024 4:38 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Eason would be a nice get. Fontecchio should be gettable for the MLE.

If Huerter goes out in a trade, I would hope they draft someone to try and replace him at #13. I like Ja’Kobe Walter for that.

Jack
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June 25, 2024 6:09 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I agree on Eason, If not Simone then Naji Marshall.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 25, 2024 11:47 am
Reply to  Jack

Naji is good too, would not be upset at all if he were added to the roster.

NowLoveThemOnceAgain
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June 24, 2024 9:00 pm

Focus on Brandon Ingram. That’s the target. We’ll soon forget about Caruso if that happens.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2024 9:02 pm

Yes please.

NorCalKingsFan