According to Shams Charania of The Athletic, the Sacramento Kings are leaning toward keeping the 4th overall pick, as no teams have been willing to meet their steep asking price.
Of course, this is the season of smokescreens and blatant lies to help oneself, so this information may or may not be true, but this rumor shows the Kings are playing things exactly as they should. With Jaden Ivey viewed as the final guaranteed prize in what many consider to be a four-player draft, Monte McNair should be demanding a ridiculously high price to see if a team massively overreaches, and if not, Ivey is a good enough player to draft even with his minor-to-major fit concerns. For the first time in a long time, the Kings seem to be operating with a front office staff that understands the intricacy of the league.
While Sacramento’s manipulation of the draft pick trade market should be considered the most important piece of news, Charania also reported that the Kings have engaged in talks with the Atlanta Hawks around power forward John Collins. In what should be a massive relief for Kings fans, Charania added the tidbit that Monte McNair has not included the 4th overall pick in conversations with the Hawks, meaning a trade back to 16 would be unlikely.
From a talent upgrade and fit perspective, Collins makes quite a bit of sense for Sacramento, a team lacking in both starter quality players and a sensible front court partner for Domantas Sabonis. Sabonis’ unique set of skills and weaknesses are best supported by a floor-spacing, weakside rim protector, and while Collins is by no means the next coming of Rudy Gobert, he’s a much more vertical threat at the rim than Harrison Barnes. Last season, Barnes averaged just 0.2 blocks per game, the lowest mark of any rotational player on the roster. Meanwhile, Collins rejected one shot per game, a much higher volume. Collins also held his opponents to 60.6% shooting at the rim, 3.5% worse than their average, good enough for the 60th percentile among forwards, while Barnes allowed his opponents to make 64.5% of their shots in the paint, 0.6% better than average, ranking in just the 26th percentile. A Collins acquisition wouldn’t solve all of Sacramento’s defensive issues or act as a fix-all salve for Sabonis’ troubles as a rim protector, but it would allow the Kings to upgrade from awful to average in that regard.
Offensively, Collins would shift Sacramento’s game plan dramatically. He’s not quite as good from deep as Barnes, although his 36% from deep last year is respectable as a big man, and he also doesn’t have the self-creator bag that Harrison occasionally dips into when the Kings are in a scoring drought. Instead, the Atlanta big man would give the Kings a weapon they haven’t seen since Richaun Holmes went down last season: a force in the pick-and-roll and transition. In 2021-2022, Collins scored 1.44 points per possession in the screen game, ranking in the 95th percentile. Similarly, he put up 1.2 points per possession in transition, sitting in the 67th percentile. Collins would offer the Kings a Holmes-esque target in both the open and half-court, a key component of De’Aaron Fox’s passing game, without having to take the awkward path of starting a second center next to Domantas Sabonis.
The cost of Collins may or may not be prohibitive for Sacramento. His age (24) and length of contract (4 additional seasons) are right along the Fox-Sabonis timeline, although some would consider his average annual salary of $26 million to be a bit overpaid. The Hawks will likely seek a package somewhere in the range of a starting caliber player and a first round pick, or a corresponding young player worth the same value, meaning the Kings could build a package around Harrison Barnes, who would be redundant with Collins in-house, and either Davion Mitchell or a protected future first round pick.
Between the report that the Kings are refusing to part with the 4th pick without a godfather offer coming their way, and their rumored interest in John Collins, it’s clear that Monte McNair and his team are determined to walk out draft night with an improved roster and better long-term situation for both De’Aaron Fox and Domantas Sabonis.
If by some miracle they go into next season with Collins, Domas, Fox, Mitchell, and keep #4, I may just learn how to love again.
Seems like Hawks have been dangling Collins for a year. Gotta ask why.
I’d want to keep Barnes. Trading Barnes for Collins is a lateral move, IMO. It also ties up the cap even more.
Fox
DDV
Barnes
Collins
Sabonis
is a pretty good lineup.
Agreed but how does that happen? I think Barnes is likely part of The Hawks logic. They stay competitive but clear the books a bit, with a chance at a cheaper extension for Harrison if it goes well considering his age, then what Collins is currently costing them. Or Trae and co take a leap and they enter the FA market with the space Collins was eating with Barnes expiring.
The constant desire to move Barnes does not make much sense to me. He is a good player that has value. Collins is less than Barnes in my opinion.
If we can trade Barnes and get better players then go for it. There seems to be some sort of unjustified constant banter to trade Barnes for whatever reason.
I think that Collins is better than Barnes, especially next to Sabonis. Additionally, Barnes is an expiring contract. Houston just got a #26 pick for the expiring Christian Wood. I doubt that Barnes would fetch much more than that.
Thank you
But even that requires some context as Dallas is quite limited in ways to acquire players. And Houston is still certainly in asset collection mode as well.
How valuable is something like the 26th pick to the Kings at this point? That’s my question. And if I were to answer, I’d say not nearly as much as a team like Houston that also has the 17th pick, as well, so there’s a possible package they could get with those two picks.
good point. While the Wood for a #26 seems like the comparison, there are mitigating factors- Houston wants Sengun at the 5 and is still acquiring assets and Wood’s numbers seem like empty calories.
The Mavs have limited ways to acquire anybody, and this is a good move for them. Barnes for anything in the 20’s is not a good trade.
Barnes for Collins is a good move- adds size, adds salary but adds stability. I love Davion but I would put him in here over a next year’s pick (strong draft)
As we know Kings have to over=pay.
BTW- Kings salary last year $130M. duds- $360M or so and going up. How do you compete with that? and despite the highest salary and high repeater tax, they still are making money.
My opinion…I don’t think the team changes much with Collins replacing Barnes.
Good point that Barnes is on an expiring contract. I just think the Kings are better off getting rid of some dead weight instead of hell bent on moving Barnes.
I don’t think it is as much being hell bent on moving Barnes as it is recognizing the very real possibility that he could be lost for nothing at the end of the season.
True…he could be. I still think we can get something better for the team with him.
I read online today, and I can’t remember which national writer, that the Rockets have shopped Wood for a year, and Dallas was the first team to offer a first. I thought that was interesting, especially with his skill set. My guess is that he is less than a desirable locker room presence.
Also, I agree Rob. I feel that Collins is both a better player and better fit for the Kings, and he is locked up for a few years on a contract that should be easy to trade and/or a nice ballast for swinging a deal for a max-level player.
I think it’s fair to say it’s a talent upgrade and even a good thing for the Kings he is locked up for so long considering our struggles to attract free agents. But I do think suggesting his contract as easily tradable is a stretch. This deal would be happening I think mostly on the fact that Collins is a cap restraint and overpaid, and Atlanta wanting flexibility.
Re-sign Barnes…he will be a solid player for the next 3-4 years
More I sit with this, the likelihood and cost of a possible Barnes extension is a key variable. Barnes was given a generous contract basically on good will by the Kings. He’s UFA and played fairly close to his initially inflated deal.
If the Kings know he wants to go I get the intrigue of Collins for their competitive goals. Attracting a player is difficult in this market and the self induced pressure is on. On the floor it’s a seamless transition. But the money is a jump. Collins has upside to play to his deal, he also is a large risk on being one of the league’s worst overpays.
If Barnes has expressed being open or not to a team friendly extension I think that intel is relevant.
Not as long as John Wall or Brad Beal are on a supermax, he’s not. Or Rudy Gobert, for that matter.
Collins fits better with DS.
and in a sense, this allows Monte to pick who he wants at #4 because he can tell VR that we got a vet just like you wanted.
Murray is a fit as well but Collins and Murray are similar and with Collins the pressure to go for fit with Murray is lessened
If Davion is included, then the back court is less crowded with Ivey
If Kings management is worried about fit right now I’m worried about Kings management. We need good complete players not fit although good complete players by definition will provide all the fit you need. This word fit is becoming as ubiquitous as mentoring was for awhile. Let’s hope it incurs the slow death mentoring finally incurred.
So when the Kings acquired Barnes for basically nothing, they were playing slightly above 500 basketball. Since the acquisition of Barnes the Kings haven’t come close to playing 500 basketball. Now there’s certainly a myriad of factors that contributed to the demise but it’s safe to say Barnes has not been a difference maker. When you’re not winning you can’t continue to ride with the same players and hope by some miracle things will change. Barnes has one year remaining on his contract and I doubt the Kings will resign him so it seems the prudent thing to do is move him before you get nothing for him. It’s possible the team can show some improvement next year but an appreciable improvement will take multiple years of good roster decisions. Barnes just doesn’t figure into a winning future for the Kings and the evidence is overwhelming.
If we get Collins, I think Barnes is as good as gone especially if the 4th pick is not included.
Barnes + Holiday or Holmes for Collins
Two solid players (Barnes and Holmes) for one role player?
I don’t see Collins moving the needle on any NBA team let alone this team.
This is a really ridiculous statement, even for you! Collins has already moved the needle on his own team dramatically. The Hawks won’t consider that trade w/o a 1st rounder attached.
Also, a bit ironic from a guy called AnybodyButBagley. Maybe you were hoping we could swing a deal to get Marvin back?
It is my opinion. Allowed to have one.
If he makes Atlanta so much better why has he been on the trade blocks for a year?
AnybodyButBagley means just that….any player other than Bagley. It is ironic that you write but cannot read.
Collins in a vacuum would be a great acquisition. Collins along with his contract brings great acquisition down to solid acquisition at best imo.
It is an ok move at best? I don’t see it as a game changer for this team. Build a bench before getting rid of Barnes for basically the same player.
So you would rather have Barnes with his expiring deal than a 24 year old who is locked up for 4 more years and could theoretically be a good fit next to Sabonis?
I’m not advocating for Collins but I wouldn’t certainly hate it if we acquire him and letting Barnes go.
Technically Collins is under contract with for 3 more years with a player option for the 4th year.
I just think we can get someone better in a deal for Barnes or deal that includes Barnes. No need to trade Barnes now.
I don’t see Collins changing this team or any other team really. My opinion. Collins is a solid role player. Collins is not going to get this team to the next level.
Again, I don’t love Collins, but you may be overrating the value of an expiring Barnes.
Definitely could be overrating him but….I just think at some point they can get more.
Collins is not as good a player as Barnes . Is a better 4 but not all round and highly over paid . Lateral move at best .
s&t Donte and protected ’23
I am not as big a fan of the Collins fit as a lot of Kings are, but he would be a talent upgrade
To me, we need to be invested everything we can on our wing depth and impact. That is how you win these days and play good defense.
I’m okay with Collins if you don’t surrender the pick. But it’s the Kangz so….
I think this is where I am as well.
KaNGZ…
Fox and the fourth pick for Collins.
The report said that the Kings haven’t offered #4 for Collins (& that they haven’t received an offer that’s good enough for them to trade #4), which makes sense since that’d be a massive overpay for Collins.
A core of Fox, Sabonis, Collins and the #4 pick (Ivey) isn’t bad. At least the FO would be accumulating talent and assets to make further moves if this core doesn’t work.
I do like that the Collins rumors leave the 4th pick alone. He’s not number one on my list, but Collins is a good player, and is a nice fit with Sabonis.
$26m is too high, but when I imagine what a player along the lines of Collins would cost Sacramento as a free agent, it seems less crazy. The final details are key, but I agree with you, this is a development that doesn’t make my stomach hurt.
Collins isn’t making 26M next season, and that’s not the AAV if you include his option year over the life of the deal.
2021-22: 23M
2022-23: 23.5M
2023-24: 25.34M
2024-25: 26.58M
2025-26 (Player Option): 26.58M
After crunching the numbers, I do recollect that Collins indeed signed a 5 year 125M deal.
FWIW.
It’s not a bad contract, especially with the salary cap rising. I’m not sure I like him better than Jerami Grant but, I like the contract much better as he’d be locked-up for 4 seasons in his prime years. Grant would almost certainly be a 1 year rental.
I definitely like him better than Jerami Grant outside of the injury issues. But Grant has those, too.
I’d imagine that Grant will be looking for a deal along these lines next summer. I don’t know that I’d be inclined to offer something like that.
I wouldn’t offer that deal to Grant.
I’m still skeptical as to what Jerami Grant really does that makes the Kings better. With Collins, at least there is the scoring/shooting/rebounding element that he brings with a bit of defense/shot blocking. I don’t really see Grant doing that on the Kings.
If the Kings were to acquire Collins and his 5 year deal, would they be able to re-sign Sabonis (if they so chose) to a 5 year deal? Are teams allowed to have three 5 year deals?
Yes. Teams are limited to 2 Super Max deals and 2 Rookie Max extensions. Only De’Aaron Fox qualifies of any player on the roster currently, and that’s a rookie max extension.
But a 5 year deal like Collins signed with Atlanta, you could have 15 players with contracts like that technically provided you had Full Bird rights to all 15 players.
It doesn’t work that way in practice, of course. Hope this helps. (I will always hate your rosterbation ideas as evidenced by my numerous puke emojis I answer in response. On Twitter.)
FWIW.
Thanks for that clarification, Nate! I knew you were good for that precise cap knowledge.
I wasn’t sure if Collins deal qualified as a rookie max or not.
Man, if Monte can somehow get Collins and get a player like Ivey at #4, that is an absolute win. That being said, Collins is going to cost a future pick, maybe two, if you are not including Barnes.
From a Kings standpoint, Holmes, filler, a lottery protected 2023, and lottery protected 2025, would be great but I don’t think the Hawks go for it. They really have no need for Holmes unless a third team is involved.
The Kings haven’t talked to Ivey. He hasn’t come in for a workout.
Who runs this team?
We should ask for a do-over on last year’s draft, since Davion Mitchell didn’t come in for a workout.
Why would you take him? Who knows if Mitchell can even play at the pro level?
Yeah, brag about the fact that your team is about the make the most consequential decision since the Luka debacle and they are flying blind. Awesome.
Yes, this is exactly the same thing, well done!
I think you’re overselling the importance of these workouts and interviews.
I can see it mattering with a guy like Sharpe that you don’t have as much film on against good competition. Or interviewing a guy with question marks in his make-up or motor. But they aren’t going to learn anything new about Ivey.
Yeah, sure, I guess they just shouldn’t meet with any draft picks. Seems like a good strategy.
I’m saying this as a guy who has been having a BF all weekend. Go easy bud.
BF?
I consider those things sort of like getting a mint after a great steak dinner. The mint is nice and all, but it’s never going to replace the steak dinner in the first place. It’s a cherry on top of the sundae type thing for a lot of these guys.
The excuse making for the Kings front office never ends.
Where’s the excuse being made?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FT28QSGVUAA0QkJ?format=jpg&name=large
Yeah they are flying blind! lol
Another fine example of a delusional Kings fan who thinks the franchise is operating at at even a semi-competent level.
For what it’s worth Morey wasn’t a big believer in pre-draft workouts. According to the workout trackers, as far as we know, the 76ers have worked out 2 players. The highest ranked of which is Keon Ellis. I’d say he and his orgs tend to be at least semi-competent.
Get a track record. Than do weird shit
As much as the Kangz stench is all over this team top to bottom. This example of having players in or not doesn’t happen as much as it used to. The only reason players did in 2018 was because we had the #2 overall.
Most agents wouldn’t let their clients work out or speak to the kings anyway because they don’t want them going there in the first place.
So this one time it’s definitely less Kangz front office and more player agents and reps not wanting them anywhere near here.
Yeah sure. NO AGENT wants his players anywhere near this franchise. Kings fans have to stop making excuses for this incompetent collection of idiots
I’m sorry, but I don’t think the basketball FO ARE idiots. They’ve all come from other FO’s that are a lot of things but characterized as idiots is not one of them. Paul Johnson, the Stockton Kings GM, came out of San Antonio’s organization. Phil Jabour came out of OKC’s. Wes Wilcox worked for Cleveland when LeBron James was there and Atlanta when Mike Budenholzer coached there including that 60 win team. Monte McNair was in Houston with Daryl Morey for over a decade.
That group is a lot of things, I have no doubt, but they have never struck me as idiotic.
agree- not idiots
But I say this in a LOL mode- what about that new genius, just hired in Stockton to do player evaluations? Angeli World or something.
I’m operating under the assumption that she’s a non entity and as such I won’t waste my time laughing at the whole thing.
She’s welcome to prove us all wrong, but I’m assuming she’s going to fade away and this’ll be another dumb footnote in a long series of dumb footnotes.
This is interesting and I can see Atlanta taking a little less simply to clear his contract. But I am struggling to understand a deal construction that makes sense for the kings. In isolation or compared to alternatives.
Collins’s contract is less a factor considering Sabonis’s value deal and them being staggered for half that time. It’s still a huge number that’s increasing with a player option. In terms of trades I find it hard getting a deal without Barnes involved. If that’s the case I don’t see the needle moving much. One is expiring but we would be taking on a risk to in relation to our books.
I just think it’s worth comparing the costs for Collins, who seems to garner a fringe all star value, to say a Kuzma or Isaac. Two players I think a better fit with the team and cheaper.
I’m not a huge Collins fan, but he’s significantly better than Kuzma. Meanwhile Isaac hasn’t played basketball in 2 years, and only averaged 45 games in the three seasons before that. If you can pick Isaac up for the cost of a lottery ticket, fine. But I wouldn’t pay a price or make plans that depend on him playing significant impactful minutes. And I say this as a guy who was all in on a Isaac/Mitchell draft in 2017.
Unless you’re talking about including a pick to get Isaac, the “lottery ticket” cost you mention may confuse some. Not that I’m hard to confuse, admittedly.
We would have to trade for Isaac. So unless the trade cost is basically nothing, and of course, we have 17MM in cap space to burn (which is a pretty high opportunity cost), Isaac is a bad move IMO. I think IF you’re considering acquiring Isaac, you have to basically work under the assumption that there’s a decent chance he’s not going to provide useful minutes. And, at that point, why would a team in the Magic’s situation trade him for peanuts?
I have deep concerns about Isaac’s thought processes, nearly to the degree I do about his ability to stay on the floor. In five years, he’s averaging twenty-seven games played per season.
Isaac is owed $52m over the next three seasons, and that’s a lot of space taken up by a guy who may not give you a full season’s worth of games over that span.
Sounds like we agree.
As I said, I also don’t see ORL’s motivation to trade him at the low low (perhaps negative) price they’d be likely to get for him.
I mean, based on what I mentioned above, Orlando has millions of reasons to move him, even if to only get Isaac off of their payroll. I’d want a first-rounder for our trouble, but I’d rather do nothing than get Isaac.
But they have plenty of cap space and are still in the relatively early stages of building. So they would be much better off holding onto him and letting his value grow (either by showing he can play or by reducing the contract). At this point, picks are more valuable to them than that particular chunk of cap space.
Good points. To me, Orlando is a far less desirable place to work and live than is Sacramento. Imagine having to live in Florida, and you’re still nowhere near a beach. Humidity, rednecks, and an absolute tourist trap? Not for me.
I’d like to think that if I was making millions per year, Florida’s lack of a state income tax wouldn’t sway me that much, but one of my few good qualities is that I’m not greedy.
Hilarious. Florida’s beaches are nice but Orlando does not have one of those. But it has all the other “amenities”- huge voracious bugs, tourists, humidity and some crazy assed non common sense opinions.
Same. Politics aside, he’s said and done some spotlight catching things that may float better in Orlando than in a progressive thinking Sacramento. That could develop into an issue apart from his injury history.
he means, I believe that Issaac is cheap- do Kings have to pay all future medical bills?
Collins better than either of these two
I’m kinda with you here. I like the idea of giving up draft picks even less than losing Barnes.
I’m not sold on Barnes as a 4. He’s ok there offensively but, he can’t guard a legit PF. Aaron Gordon made him look totally out-classed. Collins patches holes at 3 and 4 when Barnes moves back to Small Forward where his size becomes an advantage. I would think long and hard, because I can think of some deals, for Collins, I might like but not really any that I love.
This is going to be a fun week. Hopefully it doesn’t end in soul crushing disappointment.
“Hopefully it doesn’t end in soul crushing disappointment.”
Its the KANGZ WAY! Of course that would happen on draft night.
It is giving me vibes of the Luka draft. I still remember that week it was reported that we were taking Bagley, and I thought it was just a smokescreen so no one moves up to 1 to take Luka. Of course I and most King’s fans were wrong.
I’m still not sure what this has in common with the Doncic draft. Are there reports that we’re planning on taking an over-hyped “athletic specimen” over a generational talent?
Of course there aren’t. There’s been almost nothing notable from the organization, and even last week’s report about the preferences of Brown & Ranadive don’t seem to be based on much of anything.
McNair appears to be handling the process in a way that has made sense since the lottery order was decided: A high price placed on the #4 if it’s to be traded, or an excellent prospect, whoever remains when Sacramento is called.
I don’t know what the likelihood of acquiring Collins might be, but I’m pleased that part of the cost won’t be this year’s pick, unless perhaps the Hawks are willing to include DeAndre Hunter.
While I don’t think there’s a generational talent in this draft, Ivey feels somewhat similar to Bagley as an overhyped athletic specimen (though I don’t expect Ivey to be as bad as Bagley) & I think there’ll be at least 1 available prospect who’s definitely better than Ivey.
I wasn’t comparing apples to apples. Just the sentiment going into the draft was as with this one that we’re in a great position to improve the franchise barring making a stupid bone headed move. We’ll see what happens Thursday. We’re in a great position, but at the end of the day, Kangz may rule.
Barnes + Holiday for Collins + Huerter. Would Atlanta make that trade?
I’d do Collins for Barnes and Mitchell and then draft Ivey. Fox, Ivey, Sabonis, Collins would be fun. Then you have to cross your fingers and hope that DDV is the answer on the wing. I doubt that Atlanta takes that deal, though.
And 1 – I would also consider Collins for a top 10 protected ’23 pick, though that would come only Barnes and not Mitchell.
Trading a future FRP is a dangerous game if you’re Sacramento – when you miss the playoffs (play-in ain’t playoffs as we all agree) you crush the fan base who, as we are all living now, trend up the fandom with hope and dreams this time of year and throughout the Summer and Pre-Season.
The Kings can’t depend on Free Agency where they are getting leftovers and crumbs.
Just my opinion – one of the most valuable players on the Sacramento roster is next year’s first rounder (for the last 16 years). When you are in the playoffs, not so much. Even with this possible upgraded roster, getting into the Western Conference playoff picture is far from a sure thing.
John Collins is just not enough, IMO, to part with a first round pick. If they were one piece away, and he was the piece – ok. Sacramento, even with John Collins is more than one piece away, IMO.
After 16 years, I don’t think that the thought of “crushing the fan base” is on the organization’s front burner. And again, it’s top ten protected, so it is a limited risk.
Agree. Crush was too strong a term. This site is proof that this fan base, despite being deeply buried in disappointment can thrive with hope and fun and good cheer.
Back when, in a time long long ago when Sacramento had strong playoff teams and became a Title Contender – the draft was an amusement; what curious gems can they add? Well, Kevin Martin (26), Gerald Wallace (25), Hedo Turkoglu (16) and wash out the Quincy Dooby (19), Dan Dickau (28), Francisco Garcia (23). If they skipped a draft, no matter, team is still going strong.
Ah, the good ol’ days.
And not unimportantly –
but if I’m John Collins, I am okay with a trade, even to Sacramento, as long as I don’t have to don that awfully ugly yellow Hawks jersey ever again. And that doesn’t work if Sac brings back the gold lamè.
Yeah, we’re past the crushing part and at the dislodging bits of icky fan gristle from the grooves of the organization’s booth-part.
But hey, creamy thick shakes! I mean; nice arena!
next year’s draft appears strong. If Kings keep protected pick, fine but even an #11 is good.and if the Kings keep it, the drama goes on for years.
yes. Collins not worth losing a FRP. or having the risk of loss hang on for years.
If I’m Monte and those are the two choices, I’m trading Davion and keeping the 2023 pick knowing well that this team is likely back in the lottery.
yep
Eww no way…Kings big losers giving up Barnes and Mitchell
I’d much rather have Murray & Davion than Ivey.
It might be Collins + Ivey and losing Barnes and Davion.
vs.
Murray and keeping Barnes and Mitchell
I’d much rather have Murray, Davion & Barnes than Ivey & Collins.
That’s too much for Collins. Swapping Barnes for Collins is a wash, but including Mitchell is just too much.
I haven’t felt this good coming into a draft in a long while. Monte has an actual chance to do something good, I think. Hopefully he can.
How do you feel after the kingth motht rethent draft pick?
Thor.
.
.
.
Thor.
Jaden Ivey does not like sausage. He said Sacramento “wouldn’t be the wurst option.”
Please show yourself out.
It’s Greg’s fault.
https://twitter.com/gwiss/status/1538684183362641921
You’re such a brat.
I mean, really, who out there truly thought the Kings would trade the 4th pick for Collins? The Kings didn’t do that for Sabonis, why would they consider it for Collins? Because of an opinion that McNair is under a win-now mandate from outside sources? LOL. That’s all I got on that one.
Of course McNair is going to ask everything for that 4th pick, why shouldn’t he? He won’t get it, but you don’t get what you don’t ask for. And isn’t McNair’s job as GM to improve the roster? Or am I missing something?
I thought the most revealing thing about the Shams blurb on the Kings was the need to state that McNair is thought to be in control of basketball operations. Not the statement itself, but the need to state that McNair is in control. Yet again.
TBH, most of the column was whether Kyrie Irving would end up on the Nets, Knicks or Lakers anyway. There wasn’t much else in the tidbits that told me much of anything, and certainly the points about Irving didn’t have much use for me personally, either. There was a whole section dedicated to whether or not Lou Williams would retire for chrissake. There was a 2 line bit about Minnesota being interested in Clint Capela. (That was the most interesting thing of the whole column, I thought.) The Pacers are discussing trades around Brodgon and Turner, surprise surprise!
That’s most of what Shams wrote, I might add. Not all. There’s some other stuff in there, but not especially interesting (to me). It’s that time of year.
You seemed pissed at Shams.
I’d love to see Kyrie back with Lebron and Westbrook back with KD, just for the comedy of it all.
I’m not pissed at anyone. Outside of myself for filling my Mom’s clay oven with too much water that is overflowing outside the oven and now I have to clean that up.
But I have no reason to be pissed at Shams for what he reported. I’m sorry if you don’t understand actual criticism and how it works, though, bud. I’ll try harder to do it Idiocracy style next time, but I’m pretty sure my Tyme Masheen is broken.
It is perfectly ok to write a coherent post and not attack people like a total ass.
Occasionally you pull it off. Keep trying.
So it’s okay for you to mischaracterize my opinion on purpose with no penalty. But it’s not okay for me to call you an asshole when you do. Got it. Good to know.
Not mischaracterizing anything on purpose. Is what it is…
Right. Just like I believe there’s oceanfront property in Arizona.
You should look at map. Basic knowledge is helpful. Your knowledge is limited only by your inability to see reality.
Collins would add much-needed talent to this roster, but I don’t think that would be a good move honestly.
We need outside shooting more than interior at the moment, and while Collins can hit some shots I don’t think it would be enough to open up the middle. Look at how the league is right now, outside shooting is prioritized and we don’t have a bunch of that on the roster currently. Unless someone has really worked on adding that over the off-season I don’t think we have good enough shooting from outside to add someone of Collins’s talent and not be clogging the middle, which would prohibit Sabonis and Fox’s ability.
TL:DR – Collins is a good talent, but we need better outside shooting first, imo. Just my 2 cents.
There’s a world where Collins’ contract mirrors that of Barnes’. Remember the first year or so of Barnes’ contract was viewed as a complete overpay and we fans were pissed. Fast forward into the future and Barnes’ contract ended up becoming at the very least a fair contract, if not a somewhat value contract. Point being, we can see a similar trajectory for Collins’ contract, specifically with the CAP rising.
Collins is really young and still has a lot of room to grow. The pick and roll threat with him and Fox would be legit and the spacing he would give Sabonis to operate on the block would be awesome.
If Monte can kind of buy low right now on Collins and avoid giving up this year’s pick then go for it. Next year’s pick if included should be top 5 protected.
2021-22: 23M
2022-23: 23.5M
2023-24: 25.34M
2024-25: 26.58M
2025-26 (Player Option): 26.58M
Any trade for Collins depends on Atlanta’s motivation. If it’s to clear future salary then Barnes and some other assets gets it done. If they want value for perceived value then I think the Kings don’t do it.
As for the Godmother (shout out to the best sandwich in the world, at Bay Cities Italian Deli in Santa Monica,) offer, it won’t happen until the Kings are on the clock and some GM loses blood to his brain looking at whoever of the top four is sitting there. I think Detroit and Indiana is as far as Monte should be willing to drop. I could see packages from both teams that would work. Otherwise, draft at 4 and go from there.
So Barnes + Holiday/Holmes, maybe a protected 1st as well, for Collins then draft Keegan to replace Barnes? Got it.
This was a fun sentence Tim. 🙂
Love this week. Good stuff. How about this. Collins and a lottery protected first next year, and 2 years after, otherwise it converts to 2 seconds. Throw in Barnes and one of Holiday, Harkless or TD. May need to take another player back from Atl. I would do that deal. I love Barnes but he’s a tradable asset, and Collins is locked up for a bit. It hasn’t work with this core. Time to try switching out pieces.
I don’t think two firsts are necessary to obtain Collings.
One should do it.
Not if that one is unlikely to convey. There is no way in hell they should include a future unprotected pick. I’m fine with 2 protected firsts.
If the Kings got back Huerter, I’m absolutely game.
IMHO, giving up future firsts for John Collins would be next-level KANGZ.
Entirely dependent on the protections.
I’d have no trouble with a top 10 protections from 2023-25 and converting into 2 2nd rounders in 2026. Especially since Atlanta is deep into the tax and the Kings would be saving them around 11 million dollars were they able to make a trade that got Atl completely out of the tax.
Gotta give up something to get something.
Same. 2023 lottery protected (converts to two second rounders in 2023 and 2024 if not conveyed) and a 2025 lottery protected first (converts to two second rounders in 2025 and 2026) is what I would propose, along with Holmes and filler.
Full admission, the Kings aren’t making the playoffs next year, so that pick won’t convey, but they had better be in the playoffs in 2025 or we will have burned the arena down by then.
Doomer. You’z a Doomah Adam!!!! Fall back in shame, Doomah!!!!!!
1 protected pick would be fine. 2 picks seems excessive, no matter the protections.
Agreed. Collins is, at best, worth a non lottery 1st.
I’m for whatever gets us to:
Fox
Ivey
Barnes
Collins
Sabonis. Would love to keep all future FRPs and Mitchell. Probably a pipe dream. Would a package of Holmes, Holiday, TD and two second rounders get us Collins?
Why would they do that? Collins is better than Holmes.
They want to unload his contract and Hunter is better and will need paid in a year .
Atlanta is 7M+ deep into the luxury tax since Trae Young qualified for the 5th year 30% criteria. They were a few million over, but that increase in pay for Trae added an extra potential 5 million to that tax bill.
The Hawks FO knew this was coming. I don’t think there was ever any intention of paying the tax for their team this upcoming season. Even then, they could easily get under the tax by waiving Galinari’s partially guaranteed contract. Part of the reason they are trading the tax is waiving Galinari is only a one time fix, and they have other players that are going to create a new problem next season (like De’Andre Hunter).
Still, they could likely do better than Holmes, Holiday, TD and some second rounders.
Maybe. But getting out of the luxury tax can be tricky.
I was thinking they could simply trade him to the Spurs for one of their two later round picks and some minor filler. Something like John Collins for Zach Collins, #20, and/or #25. That saves them a ton of money.
Why does SA do that? I’m not sure I want to tie up that much money were I t.he Spurs. Otherwise, certainly I’d agree with you.
I wonder if the trade would be centered around Holmes and a future draft pick?
Atlanta is rumored to have been shopping Capela, so if that is true then Holmes would replace him (positionally). And if they trade Collins to us they just cleared about 30 million in cap space overall (Capela to another team + Collins to us – Holmes to them). Obviously, whomever they would get back in a Capela deal would affect that number but the 30 million in cleared salary allows them to go after a star player in free agency (or in a trade using the Kings future draft pick).
Then, we do what’s best at 4. Trade it for a King’s ransom or draft BPA. With Fox, Mitchell, Barnes, Collins and Sabonis the rookie wouldn’t be expected to start, rather he would be expected to compete for a starting spot over time. Having 5 starters in place is a really good environment for the #4 pick to come into. Or, there is no rookie because Monte traded it for the King’s ransom.
I understand the debate either way on giving up future firsts for Collins. I fall on the “pull the trigger” side because of bust potential on a pick (especially with the Kings), so I’d rather acquire a player that is already a really good NBA player, fits well on our team and is in the same window as Fox and Sabonis.
Keeping Barnes, drafting Murray makes team better and far less costly going forward .
I agree. Add in Collins to the mix and we have a really good 1-6.
I’ve been a big fan of Capela forever, but his fit in Sacramento would be bad, as things stand.
We would not be trading for Capela.
I honestly hope this is smoke. Barnes is more valuable than Collins in my opinion and much more durable. If Collins stays healthy, is he that much of an upgrade? I don’t see it and I think they could do much better. Losing Mitchell and Barnes seems like a bad idea unless you’re getting more than Collins.
Losing Barnes for a role player like Collins is bad. Giving up Mitchell as well as Barnes is KanGZ!
Like Collins, Barnes is a role player.
Yes he is a role player. A good role player that they already have. No need to package Barnes and another player or a pick to get the exact same thing as Barnes or less in return. That is my point.
Barnes plus anything for only Collins is a bad deal for the Kings.
“Kings could build a package around Harrison Barnes, who would be redundant with Collins in-house”?
Whaaaat?!? Not at all, Barnes slides down to SF where he would be an excellent and much needed shooter in a starting lineup with Fox, likely DD, Collins and Sabonis.
If Barnes is required by ATL then that’s fine and you do it, but I try my hardest to keep Barnes on this roster. He is on the roster so we can go over the cap to keep him, and there is about zero chance we bring in a player of his caliber during FA.
If you do trade Barnes I feel like the Murray pick is a must or we at the same spot with zero wing play beyond one player (Collins).
I’d look to s&t Donte and a protected ’23 for Collins. Then you are more free to take Ivey or Murray whomever you rate higher.
Agreed, I don’t see any redundancy between Barnes and Collins.
A front line of Barnes, Collins and Sabonis would be solid.
I think the pick-and-roll numbers for Collins could be a bit of fools gold. That is probably mostly about the pressure that Young puts on the defense, and that he is really good at making that pass.
Having said that, I would probably still make a trade that includes Barnes for the improvement in defense. Still have to figure out a way to add more shooters though.
I came to make the same comment about his PnR numbers. Trae is elite in that role because of his combination of deep shooting and savvy passing. On the Kings, Collins still may be good but I’d expect a drop off.
I am still for a Collins trade if it works out. He is a good player that still has room to improve. Worth a shot imo
Would we rather have Collins at 25/year or Miles Bridges at 30/year? Both are a bit scary
Mo Bamba at 10/year for me 😉 MLE
[…] The Sacramento Kings continue to be linked to Atlanta Hawks forward John Collins as trade rumors swirl before tomorrows NBA Draft. Collins and the Kings have been rumored as far back as the trade deadline, and again within the last few days. […]
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