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Report: Pistons, Pacers, Wizards, Knicks, and more trying to trade up to 4th pick for Jaden Ivey

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reports that the 4th pick is in high demand.
By | 274 Comments | Jun 17, 2022

Purdue Boilermakers guard Jaden Ivey (23) works a possession during the second half of the Big Ten championship title game Sunday, March 13, 2022, at Gainbridge Fieldhouse in Indianapolis. Iowa won, 75-66. Iowa Hawkeyes Versus Purdue Boilermakers In Big Ten Men S Championship Title Game On Sunday March 13 2022 At Gainbridge Fieldhouse In Indianapolis

The Sacramento Kings are fielding calls from multiple teams interested in moving up in the NBA Draft, according to a report from ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski. On last night’s Finals broadcast, Woj reported that teams such as the Pistons, Pacers, Wizards, and Knicks, along with other unnamed teams currently picking later in the draft, have all been inquiring about moving up in the draft to select Purdue’s Jaden Ivey.

Woj reports that the Kings asking price will be high to move off the pick, and that Sacramento sees this as four-player draft.

There are a few ways to view this report. After all, if it’s a four-player draft, why would the Kings trade down even a couple of spots? But really, this report tells me the Kings are doing exactly what they should be doing.

In the wake of a report that the Kings like Keegan Murray, the Kings are sending a signal that they will take Ivey fourth, so if anyone wants Ivey they need to trade up to the fourth pick. They’re also letting teams know that Sacramento won’t take a lowball offer, because there are plenty of bidders involved. In short, Sacramento is just playing the predraft smokescreen game. What the Kings will actually do on draft day is anybody’s guess.

Unless the Kings receive a truly great offer, they should stand firm and take Ivey (or if Ivey goes top 3, take whichever of Jabari Smith Jr, Chet Holmgren, or Paolo Banchero fall). Whether the Kings choose to keep the pick or trade it, we’re unlikely to know the outcome until draft day itself, as the Kings will probably take this down to the last minute to extract the best possible trade offers.

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Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
June 17, 2022 7:50 am

Cool, cool. Drive up the price of the #4 until it exceeds your perceived value of the player available at #4. If it doesn’t happen, then just take the player at #4. It ain’t rocket surgery.

Vlawde
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June 17, 2022 7:55 am
Reply to  Adamsite

..or brain science 😀

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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June 17, 2022 8:38 am
Reply to  Vlawde

Or bird law.

SexyNapear
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June 17, 2022 10:24 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Maybe, just maybe, Ivey might be the best pick for a team dying for a superstar. Seems like the rest of the league thinks that.

The Kings, however, think they are a veteran player away from a shot at a play-in game, which might be the stupidest, short-term, total Kangzy thinking ever. And exactly how they will play it.

Last edited 1 year ago by SexyNapear
Gregoryl
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June 17, 2022 10:53 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

Yep, “if we can just find the perfect player to partner with Fox…”

Amonk81
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June 17, 2022 10:59 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

Vivek is an ego moron. Hoping beyond hope that McNair guides team to a potential star pick.

Idea of building a first round losing team rather than building a contender is so Fucking shortsighted it’s ludicrous.

Vivek too stupid to realize he should extend McNair and take advantage of this opportunity. Plus he’s too blinded to see almost all his decisions are the wrong ones.

Amonk81
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June 17, 2022 11:26 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

And why the fuck aren’t they working out Sharoe? They should be seeing who may be better than Murray if they drop back.

I so despise this shit owners meddling and mandates.

Just do things like a professional organization.

Hobby916
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June 17, 2022 11:34 am
Reply to  Amonk81

The player also has to want to workout for the Kings, or any other team. They can’t force the player to workout.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 4:27 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

It’s completely true, but they’ll make you pay for it, regardless.

ArcoThunder
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June 17, 2022 7:34 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

They kind of can though. Money talks and bull shit walks. An extra 2 million a year for your rookie contract isn’t nothing.

Kingsguru21
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June 18, 2022 11:47 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Davion didn’t work out in Sac. He’s now in Sac talking the joint up. Agents drive much of this process. I don’t think the players have one thought on it one way or the other. They are too busy thinking about showcasing their basketball skills more than anything else.

Kingsguru21
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June 18, 2022 11:45 am
Reply to  Amonk81

And why the fuck aren’t they working out Sharpe? They should be seeing who may be better than Murray if they drop back.

Sharpe didn’t want to come to Sac for a workout, it’s really that simple. They have talked to him at the combine and saw his individual workout.

Players aren’t eager to come to Sac due to the reputation that has been built up here. A lot of agents hate dealing with the Kings for a variety of reasons. Improve yourself, these things change. There isn’t some conspiracy against the Kings or Sacramento, it’s just the reality of the way it is right this moment.

1951
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June 17, 2022 11:40 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

If “the rest of the league thinks that” Ivey is “a superstar” then he isn’t available at 4.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 11:45 am
Reply to  1951

Unless the rest of the NBA thinks that all of the top 4 prospects will be superstars. However, it seems highly unlikely that all 4 of them will be superstars. For instance, I’d be shocked if Ivey became a superstar.

1951
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June 17, 2022 11:50 am
Reply to  richie88

Sure, but if “the rest of the league” thinks Ivey is a “superstar” then one of them is moving heaven and earth to trade into the top 3 to get him.

Point being, I think it’s silly to speculate as to what actual FOs are thinking based on the BS rumor season that is pre-draft time.

None of this means anything. The only thing that drives up the value of the No. 4 pick is what actual NBA executives are actually prepared to pay for it. The rest is just noise.

Last edited 1 year ago by 1951
richie88
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June 17, 2022 12:05 pm
Reply to  1951

I agree w/this.

1951
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June 17, 2022 12:07 pm
Reply to  richie88

I agree with this agreeing with that.

PhutureKings
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June 17, 2022 12:57 pm
Reply to  1951

I agree with this, that, and the other thing.

KingBob
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June 17, 2022 11:56 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Hard pass on rocket surgery. Just sounds unpleasant all around!

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 11:58 am
Reply to  KingBob

cockpit

Klam
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June 17, 2022 4:51 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Agreed. It’s a great position to be in….let’s just hope the Kings don’t screw anything up.

eddie41
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June 18, 2022 8:28 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Actually, this news is only good for the Detroit Pistons who want to select Murray at #5.

andy_sims
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June 18, 2022 7:10 pm
Reply to  eddie41

They seem to be wetting their pants up there with the idea of a Cade/Jaden back court. I’d only be slightly surprised if Ivey is gone by four.

rockbottom
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June 17, 2022 7:55 am

Agree that Kings are doing the correct things regarding Ivey and 4th pick but disagree that if Ivey is taken in top three just take who falls. Truly feel that Banchero is not as good as Murray .

HongKongKingsFan
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June 17, 2022 8:01 am
Reply to  rockbottom

Wow.

But there probably would be no way that Murray got picked before Banchero.

The offense skill of Banchero seems better than Murray.

(Murray seems better at all fundamental thing)

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 8:03 am

Murray may be less likely to bust, but Banchero looks like more of a franchise talent.

jwalker1395
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June 17, 2022 8:24 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Banchero will likely be a good player, but he seems like the #1 option on a team that doesn’t win anything. Keegan Murray seems like the #3 option on a Finals contender.

I wouldn’t want to invest my entire franchise in building around a guy like Banchero who, even if he reaches his full potential, may still not be good enough to lead us anywhere. And if he doesn’t reach his full potential, it’s hard seeing what type of secondary role he could play effectively. It’s all or nothing, and I don’t think he’s good enough to bet on.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 11:32 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

Idk if Paolo could be the #1 option on a title contender, but I could easily see him being a #2 or #3 option on a title contender.

Sacto_J
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June 17, 2022 4:53 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

“It’s all or nothing, and I don’t think he’s good enough to bet on.”
But you think Murray is? Interesting.
Why does the rest of the scouting world see him below the top 4/5, and some even lower?
I think Murray could elevate to another level based off his BBIQ and decent athleticism. But I don’t think he’s better than Banchero currently. Banchero is 19. What he does for his age, and if his BBIQ develops, good lord. D and 3s are his only real weakness, I think Paolo will be high-level starter / All-Star possible super star. I think Murray will be a solid starter possible All-Star. I’d take either of them, really, but if both were available and it was my choice it’s pretty easy to see Banchero has a slightly higher floor and a way higher upside.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 10:05 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

Paolo already has a high BBIQ, so it doesn’t need to develop. While I don’t think Murray’s nearly as good of a prospect as Paolo, I think he’s a good prospect & a little better than Ivey.

rockbottom
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June 17, 2022 2:30 pm

So all the players taken before Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, and Butler had special skills . The idea that the top 5 are actually the top 5 is never correct . Right now no person knows which players will be much better than their draft number and which will prove to be much worse !

BasketballHella
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June 17, 2022 11:04 am
Reply to  rockbottom

Coach K is one of the greatest coaches of all time. Plays to his players strengths and hides their weaknesses…….. ask me how I know.

Aka no more Duke players.

Last edited 1 year ago by BasketballHella
richie88
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June 17, 2022 11:42 am

Bagley’s weaknesses were pretty easy for me to see. I don’t think Paolo will be a good perimeter defender, but it looks like he’ll be a great offensive player & that he’ll probably be a cromulent post defender.

RighteousandHopeful
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June 17, 2022 11:45 am
Reply to  richie88

Cromulent. Not to be confused with cormorants. Or Ja Morant.

BasketballHella
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June 17, 2022 12:54 pm
Reply to  richie88

I think Paolo plays zero defense just like bagley. I think yes he is a net positive on offense but I think he’s basically a possibly more healthy bagley.

players that are all about offense and can’t be bothered on defense….we have yearly reminders on how that works out in the nba.

if he’s scoring 30 but giving up 25 a night how valuable is that?

richie88
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June 17, 2022 2:06 pm

His post defense seems fine to me.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 2:42 pm
Reply to  richie88

Overall his defense is and will be fine. Not great. But right around average. His size, agility, and BBIQ will enable him to be a useful part of a good team defense.

All in my opinion, of course.

Last edited 1 year ago by BestHyperboleEver
BasketballHella
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June 17, 2022 11:38 pm

Honestly heard the same with Bagley yet saw none of it change.

One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite players of all time.

”Defense is a choice not a talent.”—Dennis Rodman

richie88
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June 18, 2022 12:10 am

In addition to defense being a choice, it also requires BBIQ. Bagley has a much lower BBIQ than Paolo.

Nemanja_Business
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June 17, 2022 7:28 pm

Tell me how Ivey is different?

BasketballHella
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June 17, 2022 11:36 pm

Oh he’s not as far as defense goes. I would say he’s quite possibly worse.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 11:27 am
Reply to  rockbottom

I’d say Paolo’s the 2nd best prospect in this draft & that he’s easily a better prospect than Murray. To me, it’s Ivey who isn’t as good as Murray.

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 7:58 am

Kuzma and Sochan for four? That’s definitely gonna make a bigger impact, immediately, than Ivey.

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 8:02 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Probably Kuzma and #10 for Holmes and #4.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 8:14 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

To be blunt, I think that’s a really bad trade.

TheGrantNapear
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June 17, 2022 10:01 am

Your bluntness is an understatement. That’s a really really really bad trade.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 11:47 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

It’s a terrible, horrible & very bad trade.

murraytant
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June 17, 2022 12:53 pm
Reply to  richie88

that’s burn all season tickets bad.

1951
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June 17, 2022 11:42 am

To be blunt …

comment image

cloudyeyes
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June 17, 2022 12:34 pm

Still a better trade than #4 + Barnes for Jarret Allen which makes no sense whatsoever.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 1:34 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

I mean, that’s also pretty terrible, but at least you end up with a very good player in Allen.

Last edited 1 year ago by BestHyperboleEver
Dub_TC
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June 17, 2022 1:44 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

That’s John Salmons trade level bad

eddie41
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June 18, 2022 7:26 am
Reply to  Dub_TC

good reminder. for all the optimism of pulling off a trade down for Jason Tatum, the Kings should avoid this result. Most important thing is to evaluate the draft prospects. That year Klay Thompson went 11 and Kawhi 15. If you’re positive Klay or Kawhi will be available at the lower draft slot, then it’s not bad. If you’re not, just draft Klay or Kawhi at 6 even if the “consensus” is different.

eddie41
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June 18, 2022 7:57 am
Reply to  eddie41

in other words, if the Kings prefer Murray, just draft him at 4 unless the offer to trade down is clearly better.

richie88
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June 18, 2022 9:37 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Since the Kings drafted Jimmer ahead of Kawhi & Klay, they could’ve drafted them while trading down.

eddie41
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June 19, 2022 9:26 am
Reply to  richie88

If they actually did that it would have been a good trade. If they had intentions to do that, but Klay and Kawhi were to get drafted before 10, it would have been a terrible trade. And the fact that neither team involved in the trade drafted Klay or Kawhi means that maybe they should have been more focused on evaluating prospects than working out a draft day deal involving John Salmons.

richie88
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June 19, 2022 5:39 pm
Reply to  eddie41

My impression was that Petrie evaluated the prospects & (wrongly) thought Jimmer was the BPA. He also got a hell of a steal by drafting IT w/the last pick.

SexyNapear
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June 17, 2022 10:27 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

The Kings have been salivating over Kuzma for five years. It’s a strange obsession.

Sacto_J
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June 17, 2022 4:56 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

According to who?

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 8:07 am

The Warriors won w/o Wiseman, Moody, or Kuminga even playing (hardly). That’s a lot of upcoming young talent! Who can they hold onto, and who becomes available?

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 8:10 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

They can easily hold onto all of them if they want to.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 17, 2022 8:29 am

The Warriors have the most expensive salary in league history. $175M in salaries and $170M in tax. They spent $345M last year to the Kings $130M. They doubled up the Kings in spending and then some. They have a bigger spending gap over the rest of the NBA that’s so big, it is eclipses any MLB salary gaps. The closet spending to them is Brooklyn at $267M.

At some point I’d think they’d have to reel it it or the NBA needs to reevaluate their salary cap rules.

They are going to have some spending decisions here pretty quick with Wiggins and Poole.

Gregoryl
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June 17, 2022 8:55 am
Reply to  Adamsite

That is amazing…would love to see how much the W’s made this year from all profit streams…

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 10:18 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

Without knowing a damned thing about the amount of dough that rolls in to any given team, and even assuming that the Warriors are at the top of the pyramid, it’s not impossible that they lost money this season.

And that’s something an owner must absolutely be prepared to do if the window to succeed begins to open. The owner of any pro franchise has got to be both willing and able (especially able) to absolutely eat tens of millions of dollars in losses in order to be fit to own said franchise.

Team ownership is a trust that makes you beholden (to some degree) to the the team’s fans. Success is extremely difficult to create, and an unwillingness to spend simply cannot be a reason for not making every effort to make it happen.

Going deep into the tax is certainly no guarantee of success, but a willingness to take financial losses has generally proven more productive than trying to move up with players on rookie deals and mid-level veterans.

I would be remiss not to note that in the Kings’ case, opportunities to acquire top talent are far more difficult to come by, for many reasons, including some beyond anyone’s control. You can’t overpay a player if he’s not willing to come to Sacramento to be overpaid.

Regardless, I stand by my main point, which is that if your franchise is your main source of income, you aren’t wealthy enough to own it. Hoisting trophies and making a profit may be largely incompatible under the current structure.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 11:55 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Winning titles & making $ may be incompatible in the NBA, but I doubt it’s incompatible in the NFL & NHL. For MLB teams, it probably depends on the team.

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 2:40 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

While I’m sure they can show some paper-loss, or at least come close to zeroing-out their profit (on paper), I would have a hard time believing they lost any actual money. Now Sacramento? Yeah.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 3:07 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

I’d disagree on both counts. One-third of a billion dollars is an obscene amount of money, and (bearing in mind I know nothing) it seems like it would be impossible to recoup with network rights, local tv, ticket sales, merch, and other ancillary revenue streams. There’s a lot of money coming in, but, that is a big nut to carry.

Conversely, I’d be surprised if Sacramento lost money. The payroll isn’t crazy, and the revenue streams mentioned above probably are sufficient to at least break even. It’s really hard to lose money with a professional franchise. Not impossible, but you’d need to work as hard as the Warriors, or work as stupid as the Maloofs.

And I repeat: I know nothing.

Adamsite
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June 17, 2022 3:59 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

From what I understand from the some family members in the Bay that know some higher-ups within the Warrior organization, they are rolling in profits. There is a crazy amount of foreign money in the Bay Area and the Warriors have tapped numerous foreign deals for their players and team.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 4:33 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

That’s a really good point. I wouldn’t include foreign money to players as part of the organization’s revenue stream, but licensing out Warriors stuff around the world has got to be lucrative.

Adamsite
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June 17, 2022 5:22 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

According to THIS, the Warriors had the highest revenue in the league in 2019-20 at $474M

And THIS article, although pre-covid, predicted the Warriors would be taking in nearly $700M per year at the new Chase Center.

They are rolling in it, so I see no reason why they don’t continue to spend.

Adamsite
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June 17, 2022 5:26 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’ll add…maybe it’s time the NBA looks at a more hard cap for its teams. Something more reflective of the NFL?

richie88
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June 17, 2022 10:20 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

My impression is that the NBA’s fine w/the current system. Even w/a hard cap, there can be loopholes (such as the NHL’s LTIR loophole).

UpgradedToQuestionable
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June 17, 2022 7:00 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

throw in tax money from said Warriors to the Sac revenue. I don’t know the exact amount, but I’ve read that luxury tax penalties this year will total around $500M. The Warriors tax bill, being repeat offenders is around $170M plus their roster salaries (total $370M)

Teams that are paying tax don’t get included in the distribution. Teams below tax amount then split the amount, though I believe there are some other folks get a cut, I don’t think it all gets divvied up by teams alone.

Nonetheless, it will be a nice windfall to some bottom lines and a sore slap to others.

CoreyBrewersD
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June 18, 2022 9:50 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Any NBA owner can overspend, If they crave the notoriety, and fame that can come from that.
BUT
It is an investment.
I see a franchise like, say, a Rembrandt. Some owners like Lacob, or even the Maloofs for a while, build it up with a museum and fancy frame, art restoration specialists. Others like Vivek toss it in the attic at there weird uncles house, and tell them to keep an eye on it. Either way it is worth significantly more as time goes by. One enjoys and celebrates it, the other is calculating profit.
GSW purchase 450M
GSW value 5B

Last edited 1 year ago by CoreyBrewersD
murraytant
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June 17, 2022 1:06 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Vast majority of money is from local TV contract. Expect it is high but limited and not as high as some – LAL, NYK etc. Attendance contributes but is shared with visitors. Merchandise small potatoes. Concessions- depends on the number of $50.00 beers in team cups, I guess.
They do have to share the overage in tax with the under-cap teams but there are only a few of those.
Just read 2 articles on OKC and Houston and how the finances ultimately drove their decisions. Not the case in dud ville.
I suspect they are losing money and don’t care.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 8:57 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Sure, but not necessarily about Kuminga, Moody and Wiseman. I suspect they’ll just run it back next year, then let Wiggins walk. Maybe extend Poole this offseason (the increased contract wouldn’t kick in until the following season.).

That said, I do think the NBA needs to revisit their salary cap rules. And their max contract rules, IMO.

Last edited 1 year ago by BestHyperboleEver
murraytant
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June 17, 2022 1:13 pm

it has been their tendency to try to get some value out of over paid players who are leaving- like Wiggins. They did not just let Durant go but converted him into D-Lo and converted him into Wiggins.
I suspect they play Kuminga more and then try to get younger in the Wiggins exit.
The super max players are going to get $50 M per year soon.
There may be a move towards hard cap- teams want to be competitive and see the gross unfairness here. Some teams want external pressure and excuse to reduce spending. Who can afford this? and who can afford to sink that money just to try to keep up.? The agents want no cap, no rules

Kingsguru21
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June 18, 2022 11:54 am
Reply to  murraytant

They did not just let Durant go but converted him into D-Lo and converted him into Wiggins.

D Lo also wanted to come. Plus the Dubs also got the 7th pick in the 2021 draft and used it to take Kuminga.

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 2:43 pm

I don’t see a problem with the salary structure that’s currently in place.

Kingsguru21
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June 20, 2022 7:32 am

That said, I do think the NBA needs to revisit their salary cap rules. And their max contract rules, IMO.

I think the rules mainly work. It’s just to play with the big boys, you’re going to make less money in, say, Milwaukee, than you will when you’re based in SF. Unfortunately, that’s just the way of the world.

BasketballHella
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June 17, 2022 11:06 am
Reply to  Adamsite

They can spend what they want forever they drafted all that talent, with the exception of Wiggins.

they can’t change the salary cap on drafted player compensation or the Kangz never draft and keep any player of value again.

look at the impending free agency of Sabonis the only hope the Kangz have is they can give more money that’s it.

If it’s equal again between us and the warriors in free agency who wins that battle.

Last edited 1 year ago by BasketballHella
murraytant
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June 17, 2022 1:00 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

record breaking spending. And they crow about “we didn’t buy this team”. Ok, you did not go to the free agent store and buy new players but as the value of your players rose, you spent more on them. Semantics.
Wiggins has one more year and then has to be paid for.
Poole is up for rookie extension
They want to keep Payton- that will cost.
and Looney is an URFA
The 3 “young guys” are all coming due.
If they do this right, they could spend over $450 M
The cap is a joke when you can breach it and just pay repeater taxes.

Adamsite
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June 17, 2022 3:53 pm
Reply to  murraytant

They make quite a bit of money with the Bay Area market, but still it’s pretty wild when you take the tax into consideration. They are at $345M for basically a 15 man roster when teams like the MLB Dodgers at $260M with 26 players and NFL Jaguars at $260M with 90 players. That’s remarkable!

From what I understand, they are still one of the most profitable teams in the League, behind only the Lakers. The repeater tax really isn’t phasing them and other owners really aren’t complaining because it’s lining their pockets as well.

One thing is fore sure, and I think will become a problem, the spending between large and small markets is widening and I’m not sure is sustainable for competitive balance. IMO, there is no way a team like Memphis (who is often near last in profit) can spend like the Warriors to keep their core together for a decade.

CoreyBrewersD
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June 18, 2022 10:05 am
Reply to  murraytant

boo hoo on the overpay. Yankees overpay every year and no Chip for years. Spending doesn’t equal championships, just better odds. It’s all about culture. Yes the Kings are fucked. Say what you want about the Maloofs but the culture here has never been the same. I would posit Wiggins is being paid market and beyond.

andy_sims
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June 18, 2022 7:15 pm
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

Licking the boots of the Maloofs? Please consult a psychiatrist.

CoreyBrewersD
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June 18, 2022 8:19 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Being a Kings fan I was told only alcohol and hard drugs could help!
But why the hate for the Maloofs? This team has never had the success it had for a short time under their watch. I have no expectation of a Vivek team ever being as good as the Webber Bobby teams were, yet I still purchase goods and follow the team. Is this why the Shrink sent me away?

richie88
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June 18, 2022 9:42 pm
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

But why the hate for the Maloofs?

Have you forgotten what the last few years w/the Maloofs were like? I’ll always hate them for that.

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 3:03 pm

Easily? I mostly agree with your comment below. Their probably hoping Kuminga can replace Wiggins, or Otto Porter Jr? likely gone (UFA). Who replaces him in the starting unit this season? I know Looney has become quite serviceable, but I think they would still like to upgrade the 5 spot.
They will also, likely, try to consolidate their payroll. That’s just too much talent going to waste on the end of the bench. They’ll extend Poole. Klay is now, and will likely continue to be, their least productive contract. Maybe they surprise us and move him off. Moreover, they’ll probably end up trading some excess talent now, for some draft picks down the road.

Hamlet1989
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June 17, 2022 3:05 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

O r trade some talent for an upgrade at Center.

CoreyBrewersD
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June 18, 2022 10:07 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Klay is 6 months away from seeing what he is post injury. Likely he and Dray take a haircut on the pay to help resign Poole, and never say never Wigs.

SexyNapear
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June 17, 2022 10:27 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

No. 4 for Curry. Who says no?

rockbottom
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June 17, 2022 2:40 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Warriors

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June 17, 2022 5:01 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Warriors don’t say no. They just laugh a lot while hanging up.

CoreyBrewersD
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June 18, 2022 10:10 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

The Nets would jump on this.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 8:09 am

Yep, this is gamesmanship and they’re playing it the right way so far. They may or may not actually have Ivey at 4 on their board, but either way they should absolutely be saying they do. Personally, I’d be looking for: This years pick, a future lightly or unprotected pick, and an at least interesting player. Something like:

Pistons
I don’t see them trading Bey, and there isn’t a ton else on the roster that interests me (I’m extremely skeptical about him being willing to scale back his game back to the role he’s effective in). So it’s probably something like #5, 2025 1st (better be basically unprotected since it’s so far out), and Livers. I may even be willing to consider taking Hayes as a lottery ticket, but his positive flashes have been few and far between.)

Pacers
They have a number interesting pieces at different levels, so I can certainly see a deal there. If not for his injuries Brogdon would be a really interesting target. My preference would probably be #6, 2023 1st, and a lower tier guy or two like Goga, Duarte, Jackson, Brissett, and even Taylor. They also have #31 this year, which I think is a nice slot.

Wizards
Between their roster and their pick limitations, it’s tough for me to see a package that would make me excited to move down that far. I like Avdija and Todd to varying degrees, but they aren’t nearly valuable enough to drop to 10.

Knicks
Similar to the Wizards, it’s hard for me to find a trade that would excite me here. So their future assets included better be REALLY sweet. Like the better of their two 1st next year unprotected, or multiple future 1sts.

Last edited 1 year ago by BestHyperboleEver
Adamsite
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June 17, 2022 8:49 am

Agreed. The closest comp is when Dallas traded the #5 (Trae Young) and a 2019 pick for #3 (Luka).

Kings should demand at least a pick or a young stud…maybe both, if they are to give up a top 5 pick.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 9:05 am

This seems right on the nose to me, good synopsis.

TitleChaser
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June 17, 2022 9:14 am

Forgive me, but I’m a little confused by the top of your Pistons blurb. Are you saying that you’d like Bey, though you don’t see the Pistons trading him, but are skeptical that he’d scale back to a more effective role? Or does the “he” in your parentheses refer to Grant?

Last edited 1 year ago by TitleChaser
BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 9:19 am
Reply to  TitleChaser

Yes. Sorry. My mistake. I’d like Bey but I don’t see them trading him. The parenthetical was meant to be about Grant.

TitleChaser
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June 17, 2022 9:28 am

Cool, thanks for the clarification. So out of interest, would you see something like 5 and Grant for 4 and spare parts as appropriate value, but likely to blow up in our faces? Or do you think it would be a poor trade value-wise too?

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 9:40 am
Reply to  TitleChaser

I’d say value-wise, putting my personal preferences aside, it’s fine. Because you only make that trade if you know DET isn’t taking your top choice anyway. But I don’t think it’s likely to help the Kings much more than simply taking their guy at 4.

The swing issue is whether Grant would be willing to embrace going back to something much closer to his DEN role. If so, then it could be a really good move. But I’m skeptical.

So, I guess my answer would be, I don’t necessarily think it would likely “blow up in their faces” so much as I think it just wouldn’t help much.

Last edited 1 year ago by BestHyperboleEver
MichaelMack
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June 17, 2022 11:43 am

You don’t think if Grant was the sweetener from Detroit, that Monte wouldn’t just flip him? He will bring back something of decent value certainly, if not in the offseason then before the trade deadline.

I wouldn’t love that move, but I don’t think it is without merit. I love Saddiq Bey, but that might be a bit expensive for the Pistons. They seem to really like him. That GM is not afraid to do some crazy stuff tho. If he really feels like Ivey can be the perfect running mate to Cunningham, then maybe.

I think there is something to a Sabonis, Fox, Mitchell, Bey, Murray, & DDV group, and using the MLE, Holmes, and Barnes assets to fill in the blanks.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 12:12 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

Given the mandate to make the playoffs, I think Monte would prefer to keep Grant in this scenario. Hopefully Detroit’s GM would view trading Bey as the cost of making a trade, but Idk if he’ll have that view.

MichaelMack
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June 17, 2022 12:24 pm
Reply to  richie88

Monte seems more calculated than that, to me at least Richie, especially if he was wanting to keep Barnes for the season.

I feel like the “win-now playoff mandate” is being bandied about in the media, and what is turning out to be a pretty robust economy of Kings coverage with all of the blogs/podcasts/etc, so much that it is over simplifying the matter. If the Kings made some moves with the roster, and Brown was able to really make an imprint and the team started to have an identity, and just missed the playoffs/play-in after a competitive or fun-to-watch season, I don’t think McNair would lose his job just because they narrowly missed a playoff berth, unless several teams just cratered and the 8/9/10 seeds were mediocre.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 12:32 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

If the Kings made some moves with the roster, and Brown was able to really make an imprint and the team started to have an identity, and just missed the playoffs/play-in after a competitive or fun-to-watch season, I don’t think McNair would lose his job just because they narrowly missed a playoff berth, unless several teams just cratered and the 8/9/10 seeds were mediocre.

I hope this would be true, but Idk if Vivek would view it that way.

SBKangz
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June 17, 2022 1:56 pm
Reply to  richie88

I think Monte has incentives to be a good GM regardless of whether he gets fired in Sac. Whatever he does it will be on his resume when looking for the next gig. Kangz may be shortsighted but Monte doesn’t have to be.

Kingsguru21
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June 17, 2022 5:35 pm
Reply to  richie88

What difference does it really make what Vivek thinks?

richie88
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June 17, 2022 10:35 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Whether or not Monte keeps his job as Kings GM depends on what Vivek thinks.

Kingsguru21
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June 17, 2022 5:35 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

I feel like the “win-now playoff mandate” is being bandied about in the media, and what is turning out to be a pretty robust economy of Kings coverage with all of the blogs/podcasts/etc, so much that it is over simplifying the matter.

This may be one one of the best things you’ve ever said Mike.

murraytant
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June 17, 2022 1:28 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

this has possibilities. Detroit wants out of Grant and can get a late first round pick but they would not get Ivey. They could get Ivey if they trade Grant + 5 for 4. and then Kings – who should not want Grant- can flip him for a second first rounder. This is close to Hawks-Mavs except the pick Hawks got was protected and was the following year. This pick would be this year. Wood went for #26? Grant should get comparable. In that #20 area, there might be a few players- and there might be takers – teams who made playoffs this year and think they are “one player away from breaking through”. ( yea, right)

Want2win
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June 17, 2022 9:27 am

Nice write up, my fear of trading with pacers us that we will end up with Duarte an end up drafting Sharpe..I don’t think Murray makes it to 6 unless Detroit is sold on Bey/And Bagley

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 9:32 am
Reply to  Want2win

I think that would be fine. Sharpe is likely a couple year project at least and both he and Duarte are big enough to play at the same time if they both work out. I mean, it isn’t my first choice, but, say, #6, #31, and Duarte would probably be fine. For what it’s worth, Isaiah Jackson has the potential to be a pretty interesting fit with Sabonis. I’ve also always like Brissett as a low cost back-up versatile forward with upside.

Dougscott
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June 17, 2022 10:29 am

I think that if we made a trade with Indiana like this, we would take Daniels, if Murray doesn’t fall. He seems to be a favorite of the FO

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 10:37 am
Reply to  Dougscott

I think Daniels is a good choice around that slot.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 10:59 am

At six, and assuming Murray is gone, Daniels makes a lot of sense.

murraytant
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June 17, 2022 1:31 pm
Reply to  Dougscott

agree. Murray is better. SS way too much of a risk. He did not even practice at Kentucky.
But Daniels, Duarte and 31 is interesting.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 17, 2022 12:33 pm

They are not giving up 6, 31, and Duarte to move up two spots. If they would they should run to the bank with that one.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 12:35 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Then they don’t move up. No skin off my nose.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 17, 2022 12:45 pm

You have to be realistic with these proposals. That’s a ridiculous over ask.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 12:47 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The ball is in their court.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 17, 2022 12:49 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

The last top 5 traded pick was Luka for Trae and the following year’s pick in 2018. That’s the baseline right now. The Kings should get a good young player and a pick at minimum for trading down.

I’d say the #6, Duarte and the #31 is on par with the Luka deal.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 12:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It might even be a little below the Luka deal.

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June 17, 2022 12:56 pm
Reply to  richie88

Agreed. You aren’t getting Trae young at #6 and Duarte is no better than Cam Reddish (who ATL got with the Dallas pick). The #31 is small potatoes.

TheGrantNapear
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June 17, 2022 10:06 am

None of those four teams have players on offer that I’d be interested in unless Indy was willing to trade Hali back to us. The only trade that may make sense is with Detroit if Monte doesn’t want to draft Ivey and is fine moving back a spot to get his target and pickup an asset in the process.

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June 17, 2022 10:30 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

The Pacers are not allowed to trade Hali to us. Have to wait a year I think

SexyNapear
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June 17, 2022 10:31 am

This draft has the potential of being Luka 2 if the Kings pass on Ivey.

Last edited 1 year ago by SexyNapear
Dougscott
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June 17, 2022 10:33 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

If Ivey was that kind of prospect, he would be going first overall. I like Ivey and his potential, but he isn’t this “cant-miss” prospect everyone is describing him as.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 10:36 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

Ivey isn’t anywhere near that type of prospect.

Dougscott
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June 17, 2022 10:37 am

Agreed. He is getting overrated by many.

RobHessing
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June 17, 2022 10:39 am
Reply to  Dougscott

I have him 4th on my board, but he is certainly not at a level where you take the phone off the hook.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 10:42 am
Reply to  RobHessing

I have him much lower. But I know and accept that I’m in the minority on that and my opinion doesn’t set market values. That said, I don’t see the argument that justifies him being especially close to the top 3. The only rationale that makes sense to me is that all the others are Bigs, so some team for some reason may prefer a guard. And I know how much everyone around here LOVES decisions based on fit.

Last edited 1 year ago by BestHyperboleEver
Want2win
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June 17, 2022 10:54 am

I have Keegan above Ivey and probably as 5-7

Amonk81
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June 17, 2022 11:04 am
Reply to  Want2win

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Murray drop past 8 if Kings don’t take him.

He’s got that kinda feel to me. Very questionable if he’s anything more than average

RighteousandHopeful
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June 17, 2022 11:37 am
Reply to  Amonk81

Agree. He was used very well at Iowa.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 2:38 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

I’d be surprised. He’s clearly a top 6 prospect IMO. I think his skills give him a high floor.

Last edited 1 year ago by richie88
RobHessing
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June 17, 2022 10:55 am

Yep. We know nothing. Bottom line, I’m not sure that there is a player in this draft that would have me not taking calls. The offers may not be up to snuff, but the call is free, right?

Looking at this through the team lens of trying to fast track the turnaround, I could see something like 4 for 6 / Brogdon / future 1st with some protections if they knew that they could land Murray at 6 (or Sochan if that is their cup of tea). If the Kings prefer Murray and think they can get Bey and a future 1st, fine.

I’m not too hung up on the Kings trading the messiah at #4.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 11:03 am
Reply to  RobHessing

I REALLY like Brogdon and he’s theoretically a really good fit for this team, but over the years I’ve become more and more leery of depending on injury prone players to take on key roles. Now, if you get two 1sts, it’s probably worth a shot since the value of the trade doesn’t hinge on Brogdon being a star, but it still gives me pause.

rockbottom
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June 17, 2022 2:51 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Ivey looked very un messiah like against St. Peter’s . Concerns me.

RobHessing
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June 17, 2022 3:14 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Yeah, one game samples don’t do much for me, either way.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 2:30 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I have Ivey 5th on my board. I think he’s in the same tier as Murray & Sharpe.

RighteousandHopeful
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June 17, 2022 11:35 am
Reply to  Dougscott

Disagree. Ivey has all the talent in the world and a high hoops IQ. I say Murray is over-rated if he goes in top 6.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 12:07 pm

Can you define “all the talent in the world” for me? I’d also like to see evidenced of his high hoops IQ.

RighteousandHopeful
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June 17, 2022 3:57 pm

I follow the Big Ten and watched a lot of Purdue games. Ivey is the fastest, quickest and highest jumping player I’ve seen this year. I feel he will excel in the more wide-open NBA where he can use “all that talent.” The high-hoops IQ, admittedly, is conjecture on my part, because he comes from a family of athletes, including his mother, who is the head coach at Notre Dame.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 8:07 pm

I notice nowhere in there do you mention actual basketball skills beyond his athleticism. Am I to infer that “all the talent in the world” just means he’s extremely athletic. If so, I agree. But I prefer some more basketball specific skills.

richie88
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June 17, 2022 12:28 pm

I’d say Ivey’s overrated. I haven’t seen or read any evidence that he has a high hoops IQ.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 17, 2022 12:44 pm
Reply to  richie88

I mean, it isn’t bad. I’d just going with closer to positional average for a secondary ball-handler type.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 12:48 pm
Reply to  richie88

Have you seen any that suggests that Ivey doesn’t?

richie88
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June 17, 2022 2:27 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

What I’ve seen & read indicates that his hoops IQ is average.

BeTheBall
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June 17, 2022 2:03 pm
Reply to  Dougscott

To me, it seems like he’s becoming a bit of product of the favorable articles about him get written, which spurs more people to write more articles about him. Which then builds his “legend” more and more with each passing series of articles/tweets.

After the tournament, he was a guy who pundits felt would seemingly land in the top 10. Then as more outlets started to write more articles on him, he became a “top 5 pick”. Which garnered more press about his rise up the draft ranks, to now having people basically saying he could be a generational talent and possible #1. Oddly, it’s basically the opposite of what happened to Sharpe.

Probably why both players make me nervous when it comes to using picks on them. As nothing has really changed about them from the season to now.