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Kings vs. Bulls Preview: Oh Great, More Bull

The Kings are looking to keep their heads above .500 and will get a chance to pull even in the win column with a strong showing Wednesday night against the Chicago Bulls.
By | 407 Comments | Jan 6, 2021

Editors note: The following was written prior to today’s events in Washington DC. We delayed running it for several hours, but I’ve decided to run it now. As of this moment there is still a game happening tonight, and I don’t fault anyone turning to sports for escape from the moment. Please also use this post for tonight’s game thread. -Greg

***

Well it’s Wednesday and the Kings have gone at least 12 hours since embarrassing themselves off the court… which, of course, means that they’re due for a game where they can embarrass themselves on it! Tonight they’ll take on the Chicago Bulls, who started their season off 0-3, heard Charles Barkley call them the least talented team in the league and then promptly won four of their next five games. They’re coming off of a 20 point comeback against the Blazers just last night, which would be great news for a team that liked to get out and run. Unfortunately, this is the Kings. Let’s talk Kings basketball!

When: Wednesday, January 6th, 7:00 PM PST

Where: Golden 1 Center, Sacramento, CA

TV: NBCSCA –  Mark Jones on the call.

RadioKHTK Sports 1140 AM

For Your Consideration

Chicago-ing Up: Okay, first things first: The Chicago Bulls have gone through quite the rearrangement of deckchairs and as such, must be respected. Gone are days of GarPax and their particular flavor of stench. Gar Forman and his 22 years of serving the Bulls were pushed gently off the capsized boat after the effective end of the Bulls season in late spring of 2020. So too is John Paxson, who spent 17 years with the franchise before essentially firing himself (though technically he’s been reassigned) so that they might bring in Arturas Karnisovas as the new Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations who then himself named Marc Eversley as the new General Manager of the Chicago Bulls. Karnisovas has been a long sought after talent in the managing world in the NBA with stops in Houston, working with current Kings GM Monte McNair, as well as in Denver, where he worked his way up to the General Manager’s position before departing for the Windy City. I’m not going to go into much further detail than this, but the Bulls are being ran by intelligent, more than competent people. So if you’re counting that’s one less franchise the Kings can depend on to routinely screw things up.

Gone too in all this is the anthropomorphized cinnamon jelly bean known as Jim Boylan…..

Okay so, I truly wanted to write more about this match-up tonight against the Kings and Bulls. Lots of banter about their pacing and Lavine nearly being in Sacramento etc. But there’s something far more pressing taking place in our country and well, that’s taking precedent while I write this.

Prediction

The arc of the moral universe is long, but bends toward justice.

Kings: 0, The People: 340 million or so.

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407 Comments
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SMF-PDXConnection
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January 6, 2021 3:08 pm

I just want to say how much I appreciate you, Will, and the entire crew of this site. Thank you.

TheFifthMookie
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January 6, 2021 7:03 pm
Reply to  WGriffith

I’ll be working till about midnight tonight to finish the stuff I should have finished during the day that I couldn’t pay attention to because watching today’s craziness unfold in real time was too compelling.

eddie41
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January 6, 2021 5:15 pm

Kind of funny this got two downvotes.

1951
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January 6, 2021 5:18 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Vox folks monitoring the competition?

Or it’s Grant and Vivek.

eddie41
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January 6, 2021 6:01 pm
Reply to  1951

No idea. All the comment said was hey, thank guys for running this site, and he gets a couple tomatoes thrown at him. Funny.

TheFifthMookie
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January 6, 2021 7:03 pm
Reply to  eddie41

There’s someone who downvotes a lot of comments at random it seems like. Not sure there is any point to it.

Jman1949
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January 6, 2021 3:22 pm

Will, I am breaking my 5+ year streak of posting game preview limericks in reaction to the seditious seizure of our nation’s Capitol building earlier today. Though I had one prepared this morning, I am too sad and angry to post it. To those of you who may be offended by my introducing €œpolitics€ into a sports blog, I can only say €œDeal with it!€

CoreyBrewersD
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January 6, 2021 3:33 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

It is actually very unnerving. And appreciate your part of the THK experience. Stay safe and I hope this can be rectified soon.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 6, 2021 3:46 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Well said.

Klam
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January 6, 2021 4:25 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Appreciate you, Jman.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 4:36 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

I’d like to help:

There was an old man from Queens
Who had a predilection for teens
He lost an election
Fomented insurrection
And still can’t distribute vaccines.

Moderators – feel free to dump this, it’s out of bounds.

SMF-PDXConnection
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January 6, 2021 4:53 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Compared to a Confederate flag flying in the Senate during an attempted coup, this definitely isn’t out of bounds. Have a rec.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 5:07 pm

Confederate flags? Loser POV you mean?

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 5:32 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

I think “Traitor flag” is succinct.

TheFifthMookie
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January 6, 2021 7:04 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Why not both?

It’s the flag of traitors *AND* losers

eddie41
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January 6, 2021 5:28 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Spike Milligan cracked jokes throughout WW2 and published his journals. So I think a little comedy on a sports blog for the worst team in the nba is fine, probably welcomed.

CoreyBrewersD
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January 6, 2021 6:05 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Hey don’t jinx the worst team thing, there are a lot of games to go.

If, say all the all stars sat out the season, there might be a few teams that finish worse.

Last edited 3 years ago by CoreyBrewersD
Gabriel_Bonito
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January 6, 2021 5:34 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

As A huge JMan1949 fan for 5+ years and counting, let me say: if today was the day, you made it count. I love your passion and creativity. Here’s to 5+ more years.

JMan may have lost his voice,
But now we all have a choice,
Speak truth to power,
Give fascism a glower,
And in compassion we all could rejoice.

BabyGiraffe
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January 6, 2021 3:28 pm

One of the saddest and most disturbing days of my 30 years on this earth. I won’t blame people for completely disconnecting from everything tonight, and I also wouldn’t blame anyone from trying to distract themselves with some sports. Stay safe, everyone.

BabalooMagoo
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January 6, 2021 3:41 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

Thinking back to what I’ve witnessed since the early 50’s I’d have to say this ranks right up there with Kennedy’s assassination, Watergate, & 9/11. Sad.

FairOaksBob
January 6, 2021 3:43 pm
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

Ranking this with 9/11??? Not sure I can agree with that.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 3:45 pm
Reply to  FairOaksBob

A man dies, and power passes per succession < a coup against the federal govt.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 6, 2021 3:50 pm
Reply to  FairOaksBob

What is difference is we were all shocked and saddened, and more importantly, united on 9/11, today proves we are not on the same page.

The former was an act of war by a foreign entity. Today is an attempted coup from within.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 4:32 pm
Reply to  FairOaksBob

Well both were terrorist attacks

TheFifthMookie
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January 6, 2021 7:10 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

one had more deaths (but still less than the daily average deaths from COVID this month), and one had hideous implications about the future of our entire country.

They are fully equivalent in magnitude, even if a bit different in action.

phulcrum
January 6, 2021 4:50 pm
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

This is the first time since 1814 that the capitol building has been breached. I’d say it’s up there with all those, totally.

(Legit, not being sarcastic.)

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 5:20 pm
Reply to  phulcrum

It’s weird that no one has mentioned that in 1954, Puerto Rican nationalists shot up the House of Representatives, injuring five congressmen.

It’s true!

Last edited 3 years ago by andy_sims
phulcrum
January 6, 2021 6:39 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Good to know.

richie88
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January 7, 2021 12:48 am
Reply to  andy_sims

It was mentioned on some of the TV coverage I saw.

richie88
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January 6, 2021 4:50 pm
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

This is scary, but the next few weeks will determine whether or not I rank it up there w/the pandemic & 9/11.

FairOaksBob
January 6, 2021 3:43 pm

So is Haliburton playing??

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 3:44 pm

I will always read “Gar Forman” as “Abe Froman.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 3:50 pm
Reply to  WGriffith

It’s tough to slip anything past this group. A lot of varied experiences in here.

Carl
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January 6, 2021 7:50 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I will always read €œGar Forman€ as €œAbe Froman.comment image

L-Train3.1
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January 6, 2021 3:46 pm

Tyrese Haliburton is a patriot and a hero, max this man asap
https://twitter.com/TyHaliburton22

Otis
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January 6, 2021 3:56 pm
Reply to  L-Train3.1

Hell yes, then put his jersey up in the rafters.

bjax1
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January 6, 2021 4:23 pm
Reply to  Otis

Its good to see players, fans. . . hell, everyone here, reacting to this. I’ve been trying to work, but just can’t. Its just disgusting to me what happened at the Capitol. And no, its not political! I don’t give a crap your political party or who you voted for, but inciting a mob who then breaks into OUR HOUSE – the Capitol is the “people’s house,” pisses me the fuck off! Sadly, someone died there today after being shot by Capitol Police. This is the U.S.A., not some damn dictatorship where whoever is in power stays there and makes the rules regardless. I’m embarrassed for this country, pissed, and also determined to speak up and not let shit this go unaddressed again. This is OUR COUNTRY. If you don’t honor the basic traditions like elections, then you are not a patriot – you are a traitor, and you ought to be treated like one.

Sorry for the rant. If you need to run me, I get it, but I just had to get that off my chest.

Klam
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January 6, 2021 4:48 pm
Reply to  bjax1

Yeah, I was ready to be productive today and that pretty much isn’t happening for the rest of the night.

CoreyBrewersD
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January 6, 2021 4:12 pm

comment image

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 6, 2021 4:14 pm
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

I just read that only 17 have been arrested? Is that for real? Unbelievable.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 4:16 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It almost sounds like the police only protects the citizens they align with politically…

Otis
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January 6, 2021 4:33 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

“Nobody could have seen this coming” – nobody.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 4:38 pm
Reply to  Otis

Another fave: “We’re better than this!”

Honestly, when has that ever been true?

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 4:39 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

“The party of law and order.”

Klam
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January 6, 2021 4:36 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

There’s literally video of the capital police outside opening the gates and letting the rioters storm the steps, which was then followed by them storming the inside of the capital.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 4:38 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

14,000 arrested during protests related to George Floyd.

CoreyBrewersD
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January 6, 2021 6:47 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

That was also days long and nationwide, a little more time to make those arrests. Hopefuly the Morons parading inside the Capital will be arrested thru facial recognition and facebook etc. photos. To be honest so should all the idiots in jewelry stores and police stations should have been tracked down as well.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 4:17 pm
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

If they were brown and black people, they’d be shot on sight.

Let’s call these fucks what they are. Terrorists.

Last edited 3 years ago by Timmy_13
Adamsite
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January 6, 2021 4:21 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

They wouldn’t have gotten within 100 yards of the capitol building before they were shot at.

Klam
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January 6, 2021 4:36 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

Hell, if you are black or brown, you’ll get shot just for sleeping in your own bed.

MyNeighborTurturro
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January 6, 2021 6:09 pm
Reply to  Klam

I’d love to hear the counterargument of the person whom downvoted this.

Bill2455
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January 6, 2021 6:22 pm

I offered one.

BBIQ4U
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January 6, 2021 7:47 pm
Reply to  Klam

Who downvotes this?

eddie41
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January 6, 2021 4:14 pm

I haven’t been this excited since two rookie quarterbacks for winless teams Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer went head to head.

Klam
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January 6, 2021 4:28 pm

I was working on a short 2D animation project in Photoshop these past few days while simultaneously doing my usual job searching/keeping up with exercising. I was all prepared today to start coloring the frames in and possibly get it all edited together tonight, and I was in such a good mood this morning….and now all the productivity I had planned has gone out the window. Truly such awful things happening.

Last edited 3 years ago by Klam
Mike120
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January 6, 2021 4:28 pm

As someone who’s a bit right of center-right, I’m thoroughly disgusted by what’s happening in DC. As much as I’m not looking forward to an all Dem WH, Senate, and House, I’m also glad that the loud mouth, egomaniacal bully is leaving soon whether he likes it or not. I do think there was a lot of cheating in the election, all in the favor of the Dems, but enough hard proof wasn’t provided to convince a number of judges. That is our system. While I agreed with many of his policies, his tweets, bragging, bullying, self indulgent actions were and are repulsive. What’s sad to me is that us on the right are not supposed to act like BLM/Antifa by destroying property and disrupting people’s lives. He lost and doesn’t have the decency or class to admit it and exhibit any grace. I hope to hell he doesn’t run again.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 4:40 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I do think there was a lot of cheating in the election, all in the favor of the Dems, but enough hard proof wasn’t provided to convince a number of judges.

For the record no proof at all was presented to the courts. None.

Klam
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January 6, 2021 4:42 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yeah, I’d love to see that long list of hard proof that doesn’t exist.

Otis
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January 6, 2021 4:48 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

The only proof of fraud that’s been presented are apparently dead people in Pennsylvania magically voting for Trump.

Pennsylvania Trump supporter charged with voter fraud

I’m always flabbergasted by people who are skeptical of things that are backed by copious amounts of hard evidence (moon landing, spherical Earth, voting results) but need nothing to believe in a conspiracy theory manufactured by some whackadoodle on the fringes of society who probably ties his own shoes together occasionally.

Klam
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January 6, 2021 4:50 pm
Reply to  Otis

Facts don’t matter in that world.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 5:25 pm
Reply to  Otis

Don’t be subtweeting Kyrie Irving, now.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 6, 2021 5:35 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

The Dems cheated an election with a Republican WH, Senate, Supreme Court, and DOJ, mostly in swing states run predominantly by republicans, with republican legislatures and secretary of states, without a shred of evidence deemed solid enough to sway countless Republican judges (with Trump appointees among them). That’s one hell of a trick.

1951
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January 6, 2021 5:38 pm

“Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Sobama.”
comment image

TheFifthMookie
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January 6, 2021 7:17 pm

if the Dems magically did cheat – all those republican ran states are utterly incompetent and should be replaced. and the Dems should be laughed at because they didn’t give themselves the senate with the cheating. Who cheats to lose house seats and not take the senate?

CoreyBrewersD
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January 6, 2021 6:42 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Mike 120 Your guys were in charge, it was their job to stop any cheating, and they have nothing to show it. Furthermore if this was so F’ing obvious and easy, not only to do, but to hide, then why wouldn’t Poppa T do the same… because it is almost F’ing imposible.
From a 55 year old whiteman and lifelong registered Republican (Moderate obviosly) Trump has set us back and all we got was a temporary tax cut.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 4:43 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I do think there was a lot of cheating in the election, all in the favor of the Dems, but enough hard proof wasn’t provided to convince a number of judges. That is our system.

The Dems really suck at cheating. For the life of me, you would cheat Donald Trump out AND keep Mitch McConnell. Not only that, the Dems ALSO lost HOUSE seats and barely won the SENATE.

As someone who is a democratic socialist, actually been called “champagne socialist,” I hate defending establishment democrats as it is. Don’t make me defend Biden. This is an unintelligent take.

BBIQ4U
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January 6, 2021 4:52 pm
Reply to  Mike120

What the hell are you talking about? You think the dems who aren’t even in control of the White House or senate somehow cheated??? Why do you think that? What non refuted information do you have to bring you to that opinion? NONE!!! You are as bad as Trump. Trying to act like you are decent and care while still spewing a baseless conspiracy theory that the dems cheated. Trump, Republicans, and you are anti American.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:58 pm
Reply to  BBIQ4U

You and I clearly have differences of political opinion. That’s fine. You can even get emotional about your opinions. But when you question my €œAmerican-ness€ without ever meeting me face to face you are out of line and I’m calling you out on it.

Carl
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January 6, 2021 8:11 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I wouldn’t question yours, but I absolutely question patriotism of the insurgents who invaded the capitol today, as well as the people who incited them to do it.

MyNeighborTurturro
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January 6, 2021 8:43 pm
Reply to  Carl

…as well as the people that continue to defend it.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 9:55 pm
Reply to  Carl

As I said, I didn’t like it at all. The storming of the Capitol and the stupid drivel coming out of DJT’s Big Mac hole. I am going to guess that this dissipates quickly by the Trump supporters as they go home. It won’t drag on for 100 days like the crap in Portland.

Carl
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January 7, 2021 8:59 am
Reply to  Mike120

Fair on the first point. I wouldn’t imply you said otherwise. I agree that what happened in Portland went too far for too long, and on some level stopped being about the original intent. However, we’re talking about invading the United States Capitol during an election count. This will be in history books forever. That will be a footnote at best.

As far as the timeline goes, the people who committed this act, and the people who support them, and the person who incited this insurrection are not going away.

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
TheGrantNapear
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January 6, 2021 4:57 pm
Reply to  Mike120

This is why it’s better to keep things sports than to delve into politics on this site.
Having a different opinion is not welcome in a space like this.
And no, I’m not saying I agree with Mike120, but I do believe he has the right to voice his opinion without the mob coming after him and bullying him.
And please be civil in your language, those cussing sound no different than you know who.

Otis
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January 6, 2021 5:04 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

And no, I’m not saying I agree with Mike120

You aren’t saying you don’t, either.

TheFifthMookie
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January 6, 2021 7:19 pm
Reply to  Otis

oh he does. He’s just upset that people disagree with Mike120’s unproven statements. He’d like everyone to not talk about facts, since they are not welcome.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 5:05 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

How is he not welcomed? He posted his comment. He wasn’t denied to post or anything. If you open up your opinion for discussion (especially outlandish rigged claims), a lot of people would comment on both sides of the aisle. That’s how forums like these work.

He’s not getting bullied. He’s just flat out wrong on his election claims.

BeTheBall
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January 6, 2021 5:08 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Disagreement != bullying

Klam
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January 6, 2021 5:08 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Ummm, if you post known disinformation and lies, expect to get a strong response back.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 5:27 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Having a different opinion is not welcome in a space like this.

Having bullshit opinions that have no proof to back them up aren’t welcome in a space like this.

What’s your Parler user name?

L-Train3.1
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January 6, 2021 5:51 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I believe it is @GrantNapearshow

BestHyperboleEver
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January 6, 2021 5:38 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Correct. He has the right to voice his opinion. And we have the right to challenge him to support that opinion with evidence. The same way we do when someone starts throwing around basketball hot takes.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 5:49 pm

“Look, Vlade was the best general manager in the history of the NBA, nay, sport.

“Proof? He was tall! What more do you need, snowflake?”

CoreyBrewersD
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January 6, 2021 6:56 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

If you haven’t seen the undefeated Jets skit it ispretty “funny”?

TheFifthMookie
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January 6, 2021 7:20 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

“Why is TKH so unwelcoming to andy_sims?”

L-Train3.1
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January 6, 2021 5:50 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

You might actually be Peaches.

Carl
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January 6, 2021 8:12 pm
Reply to  L-Train3.1

Too reasonable and literate.

BBIQ4U
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January 6, 2021 5:54 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Touting a debunked conspiracy theory is not a different opinion it’s a lie

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 6, 2021 5:10 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I feel for you. I have family who are life long republicans, including my Texas raised mother-in-law. They too are disgusted by the man in charge. They by no means are fans of the Democrats, but this year they just couldn’t swallow another 4 years of the same thing.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 6:47 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I appreciate your words. I knew writing what I did that TKH is in general to the left of me. I was voicing my anger in both Trump’s words and actions and of the mob crashing the Capitol. Got my big boy pants on and people can say what they want. To the guy who called me un-American: does that pertain to my two US Navy tours in the Persian Gulf away from my family a total of 11 months?

Adamsite
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January 6, 2021 6:53 pm
Reply to  Mike120

First, thank you for your service. You are welcome to say what you want, but yeah, a basketball blog in deep blue Cali is going to lean a certain way, so you I have expect blowback. I’m about as left as they come, but I’m tired of yelling. Sometimes having a civil conversation with those you don’t agree with is the best action. I’ve learned that skill with my mother-in-law. I feel there are those that I can still “reach” with my opinions without fistacuffs.

All that being said, I don’t think the people who acted today can be reasoned with. We are at a ever closing precipice and one man is responsible for slamming his foot on the gas pedal.

Last edited 3 years ago by Adamsite
Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:25 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’m kinda with you on this. Really want the tone to die down. And I appreciate civil differences of opinion. I might learn something. You might too. Not nearly as much fun talking with those who agree with you. Very unhappy with Trump since he lost. He’s all about himself trying to disguise it about being for the country. I see it. Romney, Gore, McCain, Kerry hated losing too but they did so with grace. You gotta admit, Hillary is still having a hard time with it. Maybe I’m naive but I want to believe there are only 10% crazies on both side and 80% of us while not all in agreement can get along.

Adamsite
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January 6, 2021 7:30 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I’m not sure about Hillary, but I was never a fan of hers. But I do know she is not a blatant racist, sexual predator, and incite violence from her followers.

Otis
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January 6, 2021 8:33 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I’m genuinely curious – were you looking for the tone to die down over the last four years when Trump was attacking anyone and everyone outside of his base?

Or just now, when Trump has clearly lost his reelection bid?

Last edited 3 years ago by Otis
Otis
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January 6, 2021 6:54 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I don’t think military service makes someone immune from doing un-American things.

Edited to add – definitely not implying you are un-American, I just think that’s a red herring (used by Bill above as well).

Last edited 3 years ago by Otis
Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:16 pm
Reply to  Otis

Just providing a little context. Haven’t met any of you personally. Agree with you that military service doesn’t provide a patriotic blanket.

Kingsguru21
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January 6, 2021 7:30 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Agree with you that military service doesn’t provide a patriotic blanket.

Suspect a lot of vets would agree with this.

Adamsite
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January 6, 2021 7:35 pm
Reply to  Mike120

My cousin is Jewish and is in special forces. He’s fluent in Hebrew and Arabic. He has served in places America is not supposed to be. He has many stories of folks in the military who have no business being there either due to their racism, ignorance, sociopathic tendencies or combination of all three. I’m sure the majority of them are pure in intentions and are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, but there are a percentage that would terrify the rest of us.

richie88
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January 7, 2021 1:04 am
Reply to  Otis

I don’t think military service makes someone immune from doing un-American things.

I read that the rioter who died after being shot at the Capitol served in the Air Force for 14 years, so that’s a pretty clear example of that.

Carl
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January 7, 2021 9:04 am
Reply to  richie88

And while I don’t agree with what this person was doing, it’s tragic that she is gone. I assume she was unarmed, which is always a bad look for the police, and part of the problem with letting the mob through. Cops end up outnumbered and surrounded, and then bad things happen.

Carl
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January 6, 2021 8:14 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Yeah, that was definitely a cheap shot and not OK. The election stuff is nonsense, as I posted above, but I otherwise appreciate your resonableness. I appreciate that least it’s a discussion and not a war on your end.

L-Train3.1
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January 6, 2021 5:48 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Whatever may have been my political opinions before, I have but one sentiment now. That is, we have a Government, and laws and a flag, and they must all be sustained. There are but two parties now, traitors and patriots”

  • U.S. Grant

This is the only leg you have to stand on here, in agreeing with many of “his policies” I question your judgement on such matters. Children in cages? Letting Americans in Puerto Rico die? Doing nothing while hundreds of thousands of Americans died during the pandemic? Where was your line?

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 6:57 pm
Reply to  L-Train3.1

Children in cages began under Obama. Both were wrong to employ it. Trump didn’t let Americans die in PR. People die during natural disasters regardless who is President. Trump marshaled resources to fight Covid. Hospitals, operation warp speed, working with private companies to make PPE, ventilators, etc. Could he have done more? Of course. There always lessons learned in the aftermath of disasters. I’d like to see the rhetoric be brought down and see calm voices on the right and left lead the country out of the place we are now.

CoreyBrewersD
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January 6, 2021 7:03 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Mike Thank you for your service for sure, and I hear you. But what the pandemic showed me is we cannot be an island nation. Without solid ties to places hostile or friendly we are really just in the dark… until something knocks us on our ass such as the CV. We need more connections, not less, globally, and locally. Just My humble opinion.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:08 pm
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

Thank you for that. Certainly, the world is interconnected and good relations with other countries are important. But I think it’s also perfectly fine for each country to stand up for itself and not surrender its identity to a global consensus. I wouldn’t expect another country to accept subservience to America.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 7:05 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Obama’s fault was not replenishing our emergency stock of medical supplies.

THAT however, pales in comparison to what Trump has done during and before the pandemic. He abolished our pandemic response team that was built from the ground up by Clinton/Bush/Obama as a way to mostly combat bio-terrorist attacks.

Trump kept denying COVID during December calling it a democratic hoax. When we finally got the first case in Washington, he said it will go away in a few weeks. Refused to wear a mask, refused to have mask mandates (which Biden seems against as well). Refused lockdowns when they were proven to curb the infected rates. You want people to stay home? Pay them. Instead most of the money went to billionaires again. Surprise, surprise.

He definitely could’ve done better. But his irresponsibility and hubris has cost 300k lives. €œIt is what it is,€ right?

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:13 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

So no governors, mayors or individuals deserve any scrutiny? Every death is on Trump?

Adamsite
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January 6, 2021 7:19 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Not every. Be he is the captain of the ship. Where does the buck stop?

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:34 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It stopped with him. People didn’t like how he handled it and that is one of the reasons he lost. I’m all about accountability.

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January 6, 2021 7:36 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Agreed.

Carl
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January 7, 2021 9:26 am
Reply to  Timmy_13

Obama’s fault was not replenishing our emergency stock of medical supplies.

This may be a fair criticism, but the pandemic happened in year three of the Trump admin. There’s not much room for blaming the previous guy if you had three years to fix a problem.

Adamsite
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January 6, 2021 7:06 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Well, the guy politicized masks, blamed others, and held numerous mass spreader events. I give him zero credit in the fight against COVID. Just because he did something doesn’t mean he should be given credit. One only needs to see how the other leaders of the free world handled COVID to understand how Trump bungled things.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:11 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

So did you like how China handled it? Dragging people out of their homes, disappearing journalists who reported things, kicking out international inspectors, allowing their people to fly all over the world knowing they were infected?

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 7:14 pm
Reply to  Mike120

I don’t understand why everyone is focusing on the China Bad part. Obviously yes, Fuck Chinese authoritarianism.

Secondly, like it or not, the best way to handle this type of pandemic is ironically what China is best at. Authoritarian lockdowns. Go to China right now and you can see they have water parks and shit open. Unless you think it’s a hoax.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:31 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

Americans would never submit to the measures the Chinese imposed on their people. The CCP can control their population because people have very few rights there. I haven’t seen much of China lately so I’ll take your word that it’s open.

richie88
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January 7, 2021 1:18 am
Reply to  Timmy_13

I read that China recently locked down parts of a province that’s near Beijing, so they don’t have the pandemic completely under control.

Adamsite
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January 6, 2021 7:16 pm
Reply to  Mike120

No, but I like how Canada, France, Japan, Korea, Spain, Germany, New Zealand, Australia and most of the free world handled it. How about comparing us to our peers not our opposites.

richie88
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January 6, 2021 7:24 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Based on what I’ve read, I wouldn’t include France & Spain among the countries that handled COVID-19 well.

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January 6, 2021 7:26 pm
Reply to  richie88

I define them as well, because they did a hell of a lot better than we did.

Klam
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January 6, 2021 7:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Pretty much almost every country did better than we did.

richie88
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January 6, 2021 8:20 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Spain has more COVID-19 deaths per capita than the US & France hasn’t always done lockdowns quickly enough.

Carl
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January 7, 2021 9:27 am
Reply to  Mike120

Yeah, China is not the bar for how the US should behave.

Carl
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January 7, 2021 9:24 am
Reply to  Mike120

Children in cages began under Obama. Both were wrong to employ it.

I’m going to correct the record here, and maybe this is an instance where we can all learn something.

The Obama administration did separate families, *when there was reasonable suspicion of abuse or human trafficking.* It was used rarely.

The Trump administration did it by the thousands, as a form of punishment for people entering the country illegally.

There is no both sides argument to be made here. I’m sure the Obama policy was implemented imperfectly, and maybe even poorly, but there is no moral equivalence. The Obama policy was intended to help and the Trump policy was intended to punish people by taking away their children.

Trump marshaled resources to fight Covid. Hospitals, operation warp speed, working with private companies to make PPE, ventilators, etc. Could he have done more? Of course.

€œGovernors are supposed to be doing a lot of this work, and they are doing a lot of this work,€ Trump said. €œThe Federal government is not supposed to be out there buying vast amounts of items and then shipping. You know, we’re not a shipping clerk.€

€œEvery state is shopping for ventilators. We’re shopping for ventilators. We literally have people in China shopping for ventilators, which is one of the largest manufacturers. So this is a major problem,€ Cuomo said at his daily news conference, adding that the administration €œcan actually play a very constructive role€ under the DPA.

€œWe’re going to need protective equipment in hospitals,€ Cuomo said. €œWe’re going to need ventilators. And that is something that a state can’t do, but the federal government can do.€

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/trump-governors-coronavirus-medical-supplies-137658

reydarly
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January 6, 2021 6:06 pm
Reply to  Mike120

A bit center-right? Establishment democrats are neo-liberals, who are literally considered to be center-right. I hope you know that. And even if you don’t like BLM/Antifa you can’t deny that anyone who shares your viewpoints are imperfect as well and prone to the same boneheaded behaviors when acting off emotion. We are all human.

andy_sims
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January 6, 2021 6:22 pm
Reply to  reydarly

I’ve lived long enough to know that what are currently called mainstream Democrats, would have, forty years ago, been called moderate Republicans. This is not progress.

What passes for a moderate Republican in 2021 is someone who believes with no proof that there was election fraud, but isn’t willing to overturn a free and fair election with violence. This too, is not progress.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:01 pm
Reply to  reydarly

Name me some current center-right establishment Democrats. Maybe Joe Manchin. Who else? So only those who share my views are imperfect and boneheaded? C’mon, man.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 7:06 pm
Reply to  Mike120

The fact that Center-right here in America is a moderate Republican just goes to show how far right our politics are.

In Europe, Bernie is considered Center-Left and Pelosi is Center-Right.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:42 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

My definition of center right is a guy like Tom Sullivan on at 3:00. Yes, America is still more right than Western Europe but both are drifting further leftward

Carl
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January 7, 2021 9:37 am
Reply to  Mike120

Can’t agree here. After electing Trump in 2016 and a centrist Democrat wining by what – a few hundred thousand votes in a handful of states in 2020, (and yes, 7 million nationally). The last poll I saw said ~75 percent of the GOP believes the election was stolen. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think 40% of the country is drifting leftward, 40% are turning hard right and 20% don’t pay attention either way.

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
reydarly
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January 6, 2021 7:24 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Literally the majority of the mainstays. Even Obama was/is a neo-liberal. Pelosi, Schumer, Joe Biden, etc. Joe Manchin just appears to be more right leaning because he is the senator of West Virginia. His votes with the republicans are inconsequential and only to keep his job. Anytime he votes with republicans the legislation literally is guaranteed to pass or fail and his vote is not a deciding factor.

Mike120
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January 6, 2021 7:38 pm
Reply to  reydarly

Are you telling me that Obama, Pelosi, and Schumer are center-right? If so, I’m at a loss for words. I threw out Manchin’s name but agree that he makes very calculated inconsequential votes in order to keep his job.

richie88
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January 6, 2021 7:43 pm
Reply to  Mike120

They’d be centrists in Europe, but not in the US.

reydarly
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January 6, 2021 8:15 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Yes because they are neo-liberals. Compare Pelosi to AOC for example, who is solidly left. Republicans are just so good at messaging and mainstream democrats are pushovers who just fold to whatever republican grievance short of social issues. Every single dem I mentioned would trash a progressive as a socialist for example to win an election. The main difference between a neo-liberal and republican is social issues. The wars and foreign policy have been handled the same way by both parties for the most part. There is never much pushback when the DoD requests more money. First responders always get more money. Veterans always get more money/benefits. The list goes on. There is a lot more overlap than would appear.

Last edited 3 years ago by Daryl Adams
Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 8:32 pm
Reply to  reydarly

Fucking based take comrade

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January 6, 2021 8:50 pm
Reply to  reydarly

Amen.

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 8:26 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Yes

Timmy_13
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January 6, 2021 8:50 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Brother, why do you think during the primaries, MSNBC/CNN/FOX would all collectively shit on Bernie? Because like it or not, conservative and neoliberals are basically the same thing.

L-Train3.1
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January 6, 2021 8:59 pm
Reply to  Timmy_13

This, in the Civilized parts of the world where President Obama is on the political spectrum would be considered equivalent to republicans. There is a reason they twice attacked the only true left leaning candidate, Bernie, both times he ran.

richie88
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January 6, 2021 7:41 pm
Reply to  reydarly

Given the Senate’s 50-50 split, any Manchin votes w/the GOP will doom Democratic legislation unless a GOP senator offsets that vote. I’ve read that he won’t vote for the Green New Deal, so that’s something that’s unlikely to pass the Senate.

L-Train3.1
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January 6, 2021 9:01 pm
Reply to  richie88

Likely due to the strength of the coal lobby and Manchin’s relative lack of spine.

Carl
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January 7, 2021 9:49 am
Reply to  L-Train3.1

If Manchin doesn’t vote his constituents interest and in some support of the coal lobby, there will be a Republican representing that state. I’m not saying that’s OK. Sometimes you have to take a hit to do the right thing, like people like Chip Roy did over the last week, and like a lot of GOP senators refused to do over the last four years. But you do have push/pull from the right thing versus in Manchin’s case, the thing that keeps someone worse out of office.

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
Carl
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