The Sacramento Kings are 2-0 in the Domantas Sabonis era after a very busy trade deadline for Monte McNair and his front office, and we just couldn't wait another week before talking about it on the podcast.
Will and I received several messages asking to hear Jerry Reynolds' thoughts on what the Kings did at the deadline, and how they've played since, so here it is: An hour with Jerry on the new Sacramento Kings. Thanks for listening!
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In addition to our bi-weekly podcast with Jerry Reynolds, we also record a Patreon exclusive Q+A once a month where Patrons at any level can Ask Jerry Anything.
You can submit questions for Jerry on Patreon, or write your questions in the comments below this post! Or you can just yell questions to Tony or Will on Twitter.
Larry Bird gives us an A for Monte’s maneuvers but yet Rich gives an ……F. Larry also said Rich should resign .
Come on Rob I know you’re laughing.
I’m actually a little perturbed. Someone tweeted that Rich should be taken out and shot in the head. The personal salvos that he has received are beyond the pale. Rich is neither an idiot (as he has been labeled by some in the threads here) or someone that needs to resign. Who wants the sound of one hand clapping around here? Where’s the upside in that?
I am sad that the days of civil discourse and reasonable disagreement seem to be behind us. A lifetime ago, when I was on debate team, we would be disqualified for attacking an opponent. We had to focus on the issue or the opinion, not the individual. I am sad that we are losing that capacity, because in my opinion it is through reasonable disagreement and discourse that we all benefit, not by calling for violence or resignations or the such.
And 1 – 99.99% of the folks that launch these personal attacks hide behind screen names. If we all used our real names, I’m betting at least some of this level of conversation would cease.
/Off of soapbox, we return you to our regularly scheduled programming. Go Kings!
The extreme cases are of course unwarranted and unfortunate. But, come on, an F? He wanted the attention and deserves some playful crap for it. There’s something to be said for an increased sensitivity and loss of sense of humor in all of this, as well. Putthegundown and most others I’ve seen were clearly joking.
While I understand your point and where you’re coming from, I’m with Rob on this for two reasons. One, on the subject of humor, when did trying to be humorous become acceptable as an excuse to cause harm? I don’t think Richard found it very funny to be told he should shoot himself. Secondly, I think it also gives the benefit of the doubt to some people that they are just trying to be “funny,” which in our day and age, I don’t think we can assume. There are certainly people who are rabid and zealous enough in any area, like sports, who might be genuine or sincere in wanting to see or do harm to people with opposing views.
That’s my two cents, coming most unfortunately from personal experience.
I don’t think the shooting guy is funny, and I thought I said so. But I also think most people deserve the benefit of the doubt, until they prove they don’t. Putthegundown was clearly kidding, as Larry Bird could care less about Rich’s grade. No offense, Rich. And sorry about your personal experience, Colin.
But Rich doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt?
I call bullshit.
The problem is, in this type of case, once someone “proves they don’t” the results can already be catastrophic. And, even if they don’t, the person on the receiving end of the threat from someone they don’t know has no way of knowing how seriously they should take it.
Ultimately, there’s no upside to a comment like that. The best case scenario where it’s a joke that’s taken as a joke, it still isn’t funny. And in a place like an internet forum with a bunch of IRL strangers we have no idea what the intent is. You are hoping it’s in jest. Unfortunately, all too often, it isn’t.
You twisted Rosevillian’s comment.
Yes I should have put a JK after that post and I’m sure Rich and Rob know far more than I do but I definitely meant no harm or foul towards Rich. It’s all tongue in cheek. Most all of here are guilty of it and mean no ill intentions.
Jokes can be fine, but threats aren’t.
Thanks, because this isn’t the third time I’ve said that now.
Very clearly a joke. Gotta love the pussification of America. Put the gun down was very obviously joking and you’re 100% right. Rich knew what he was doing.
I don’t understand the “pussification” thing. I mean, the ideals that I mentioned above were taught to me by my dad, who was tarring roofs during the depression at age 13 and served in WWII. How is carrying forth his ideals, born out of sweat and service, in anyway a “pussification?”
It’s another phrase invented by people that don’t like that their anti-social behavior is finally being called out.
I am not going to sit here and let anti-social behavior be vilified.
Having said that, threats like this, even in jest, are a bit out of bounds. I’m as nasty as they get from time to time, but I don’t think that I’ve ever threatened anyone, although I concede that it’s possible. Doesn’t feel like me, so at the very least, I hope that I haven’t.
I didn’t see the ironically-named Put the Gun Down’s comment, so I’m glad that there’s some conversation about it. My reaction to Rich’s take was that it was hyperbolic & nearsighted, but people get to have their opinions, and the rest of us get to pick them apart, or just call them stupid, if words aren’t your strong suit.
It’s the first comment in the thread. The one Rob directed his soapbox at for teasing about Rich’s trade grade. Not the person who said anything about shooting.
My name is Kosta, and I’m a cat.
….But seriousy speaking: rec’d.
You must be. Jeremy Lamb fan!
Well put Rob.
I’ll add that I think attacking his opinion is fine, threats and that bullshit is nowhere near that.
Twitter is a cesspool. If you choose to be on it, you can expect to come across craziness like the tweet you mentioned. My advice, don’t be on Twitter.
TKH on the other hand seems to be civil for the most part. Bringing back the down vote button would probably cut down on some of the nonsensical comments lol.
Spot on Grant
Spot on, Rob.
in all seriousness Who is Rich and what is all the vitriol towards the person for and about..
your comments about civil discourse /reasonable disagreement are well noted and spot on.
it is sad that insults and threats of violence roll so easily off one’s tongues/fingertips..
but I will still poke kings4ever until he retracts some of his statements about my mid lottery favorite Franz Wagner… but I won’t call him names or threaten him
The vitriol Rich has received, and ribbing K4E are nothing alike really. It’s like comparing apples to kumquats, there’s little purpose in doing so. Ribbing K4E for his Wagner takes is fine, telling Rich he shouldn’t wirte about teh Kings or kill himself over a take about Haliburton is not. There’s a tad bit of difference there.
Thanks Guru.. sounds like some people got a little out of control..
Check out this article for your answer about Rich:
Thanks Jman.. I will go check it out
Rich’s F grade was a bit harsh, but he backed it up with his views on it. That’s his right and his role. We can’t and don’t want to agree on all things. A contrary opinion is fine but some of the comments were “over the top”.
I do not agree with the F at all. And, while we think there will be answer and a right opinion, there never will be.
I hope his F proves to be incorrect and the Kings make a hard pivot.
Honestly, those who don’t agree with the opinions of this site’s admins and regular contributors have the obvious choice of just not showing up here anymore. I’d figure that’s a more constructive and effective form of protest than hurling insults and threats.
Maybe site rules need reposting? Wasn’t there something about no personal attacks?
Wow- this was about as much fun as a Kings game – now !
Best. Podcast. Ever.
Gotta love Jerry. Needless to say, the contacts on my cell phone don’t include Larry Bird, but he just talks about it like it’s nothing (which i guess it is for him!)- “Yeah, I called up Larry Bird and asked him about it…” Lol. Not that he was bragging or anything because that’s not how Jerry rolls.
You guys are really lucky to be able to talk to Jerry in depth like that. I’d be beyond thrilled to talk with him about kings past and present and just basketball in general. The man really is a treasure.
I remember meeting Jerry at Arco while he was doing a book signing ten plus years ago. What a pleasurable experience. Class act and funny as hell.
You’re lucky he ever let you broadcast next to him at all. 😉
Buddy Hield goes 1/13 from 3pt land to waste a brilliant 15 assist performance by tyrese. If you look at the box score it’s pretty clear Buddy chuckits killed that game for the pacers.
That game and many more.
Given Indy is trying to get more ping pong balls, I don’t get the issue for them. The bigger question, IMO, is whether Indy can get anything for Buddy moving forward or will they have to waive him.
Please let the Lakers get him. Please let the Lakers get him. Please let the Lakers get him.
That might help the Lakers actually.
If they’d taken the deal McNair made, they’d easily be in the top six of the conference.
Hali -5, minn guards went nuts…good for him continuing to put up big numbers in losses
Super-SSS both of us, but Haliburton played 40 minutes and was -5 while Indiana lost by 9: doesn’t that kind of make him a +?
No that means the Pacers were outscored by 5 points while he was on the floor. There’s a reason nobody takes that number very seriously, it’s way too noisy to have much predictive analysis tied to it.
Buddy Hield was 1 for 13 from three in the same game and registered a plus 8, which tells you a lot about that stat, especially on a one game sample size.
Well, that’s a take. 22 points, 16 assists and 5 rebounds on 6 for 12 from three. And Sabonis has been putting up big numbers on a 19-31 team all season. Does that make him a bad player too?
Saw a tweet yesterday from a MN fan saying “The Timberwolves most valuable players were Anthony Edwards and Buddy Hield”
Thanks for giving us the podcast a week early! I could not have waited a seven more days to hear Jerry’s full thoughts after Will mentioned Jerry’s excitement in the Kings Beat.
I’ll say this. Things look… better. I think the trade is a win, because we look better in several areas. But this is WAY too small of a sample size for me to draw any kind of conclusions.
I’ve seen the Kings win two in a row before… and more… right before going on huge multi game losing streak. I am NOT willing that or wishing for it. I HOPE this is the start of a new era, a new winning team. Unless we get to and WIN in the play in, and end up in the actual playoffs, I will have to wait another season to really grade Monte.
I grade this trade an A, because I have to grade on a curve and it is way more than I thought would happen. Bagley and Buddy are gone, and that is good. Sabonis is a great get, and for me… a bird in the hand > potential, so I’m 100% good with trading Hali to get him. So I guess I disagree with Rich’s grade. That said, I understand where Rich comes from.
My name is Mark and I approve this message.
Kings committed to the short game.
The thought of a 5-6 year plan with this team is not realistic in it’s current formation .
Sabonis, Fox, Davion, and DD are really the only impactful 25 or younger players on this roster.
A big chunk of this roster will be in the 30s or close to that next season. With the new additions, the Kings pick will not be super valuable. Especially, if they manage .500 the rest of the season.
Barnes, Harkless, Lamb, Holiday, Holmes, and Len.
The goal is too make a major impact quickly.
The Kings are now banking on Sabonis/Fox taking another leap. The team does not have the Asst valuation it once did.
Best case is the aforementioned. What does that look like? Maybe 6-8 in the West next year.
Can 1 of the 2 (Sabonis/Fox) be a Number 1 on a playoff team? We probably won’t have an idea until they start playing healthy playoff teams.
That won’t be for a couple weeks. The Kings can benefit from playing teams all missing their best pieces for weeks. Nets, Bulls, Nuggets, etc.
The real test of this teams ceiling is when they play the Suns(Twice), Dubs, Heat, Celtics, Bucks, Utah, etc.
The next coach is a monumental decision.
I would love Atkinson. But, I think he would have been great for a rebuild.
Kings are a vet team parading as young. They are not anymore.
3 of their current 5 starters are 30 or pushing.
Time will tell. Monte had to take action.
The team is definitely improved and will be moving forward.
The playoff drought could be over soon. Sustained success is another question entirely.
The Suns should not have picked up the old point guard to screw up the time line with dAyton and Bridges ! Seems to have worked ! Notice Memphis picked up old Steven Adams seems they just want to get better in their timeline ! Worry about sustained success after you have some actual success !
I don’t think 25 is “pushing 30” and I if we are playing that game, lets pretend that we traded “old” Buddy Hield for a young DDV. I am with rockbottom below, lets worry about actually getting a 6-8 seed before worrying about the rest.
Pushing 30 of over: Lamb, Barnes, Holiday, Harkless, Len, Holmes.
I think I prefaced that in my post.
Barnes and Holiday are the only likely players to be on the roster next year ! Each are more than capable of 3-5 years of service ! Any NBA GM with a 5 year plan has no plan ! Injuries, FAgency, unhappy players create plan changes
I Just wanted to wish everyone in Kings land a Happy Valentine’s day. I will leave you with this classic.
That reminds me…..are we going to have a TKH Valentine’s Thread with Kings meme and pun cards?
Great podcast as always. I think we’ll have a winning team now.
Wherever you go you take yourself with you. Thats a problem for Buddy, expecting to find greener pasture in IND. Did he bid the fans and city a fond farewell on social media, as Ty and Sabonis did with their heartfelt words? Probably not, classless to the end!
Buddy is 33% in 2 games and 22% from 3s on 11.5 attempts. LOL, pathetic! The Pacer fans not used to the futility will say, “wait until he gets hot…” to this I say the same thing when he was here, “it is not worth the wait!” Who cares if he gets hot, it means nothing, and happens almost always when the game is out of reach one way or the other.
Leading up to the deadline, I said we needed to take out the trash and bring home the treasure. I invited the fans feeling doom and gloomy to settle down, get your popcorn and enjoy the show. McGenius about to work Any questions? The deals consummated surpassed my expectations, lofty as they were, yet I am seeing C+, B- and F grades?
These pundits are the equivalent of Buddy, scattered and disoriented and missing the essence. Jerry did not say so but you can tell by his exuberant tone he would grade our deals an A! He knows highway robbery when he sees it. If you eliminate the iffy components or non-rotational players, you are left with a 3 for 1 deal, like Jerry said, Ty for Ox, DD and Holiday. Someone call the cops, report a grand theft!
Holiday is not someone I paid particular mind, but I like how he gets over screens. He also has quick hands on defense. Very nice! DeVincenzo has the abilty to guard three positions and his off-the-ball anticipation is comparable to Ty. I don’t see he has a lot of juke moves or shot creation, unlike TD; he’s a spot shooter, straight line driver and slasher, but that is all we need of him.
Sabonis is Top 25 in Touches per game. Among this group, he’s #1 in least Hold Time. He’s basically the perfect player to acquire if you are wanting to try to emulate the Glory Days of Kings basketball, the artistry resulting through angles and timing and sharing and caring. But C+ / B- grade, y’all!
In a hypothetical world where we traded Fox for Sabonis, you would be pairing two exquisite passers and shot creators (Ty and Ox), but where are your finishers? I do not think it would work as well. Before the trade I was supposing Sabonis as our new primary scorer. Sabonis wants to pass more than score. Ty wants to pass more than score. Fox wants to score more than pass. In other words Fox is more comfortable to be 25/5 than 20/10. Sabonis is more capable to be 20/10 than 25/5. Sabonis could be your leading scorer, and will be on some nights, but that is asking him to venture outside his comfort zone when he is most content being an orchestrator and selective shot taker.
Pairing two facilitators in Ty and Sabonis would have been nice, I am not saying it would not have worked, but it could be taxing over time if Sabonis was asked to be the primary scorer. Fox and Davion are better also as cutters than Ty because they have more burst and change of direction. In the way Sabonis can unlock Fox, get him high quality looks through picks and interior passes, Fox can unlock Sabonis by accepting the mantle of a primary scorer. It is a beautiful match made in heaven!
In this context it is easy to envision Sabonis agreeing to an extension. Two years is an eternity, he wont need this long to realize he has found a home, and why I do not get some pundits wanting to double down on this absurd contention our timelime was accelerated. Or there is this new overwhelming pressure to win as result of this deal. Like there was not before?
And there is NO such thing as a 5 year plan when your GM has a 3 year contract. Did not the Suns go from 22 wins to the Finals in a couple of seasons, MEM from lottery to Top Seed in short order. Turnarounds do not take long if you prey in wait then strategically pounce when the opportunity presents itself.
Opportunity inevitably presents itself because teams inevtiably become discontent with their circumstances. If you can count on one thing, is that teams underperform and seek to fix through impulsive or misguided action. This is the edge you wait to exploit.
This GM was criticized for NO plan, NO direction. He had a plan, you just maybe did not see it. His plan was to add players in the draft with the best expected future trade value. He willingly incurred an imbalanced roster until opportunity arose to balance the roster and increase (dramatically) the talent base.
Fox to NYC for Randle could have been a bluff or legtimate consideration, and way to get preferred deal done two days prior to the deadline. Was there incentive on the Pacers to agree relatively soon without insisting on our 1st rounder? If the Pacers did not concede to our terms, no picks, take Buddy, then we pull the trigger with NYK, and our new 2-man core becomes Ty and Randle. A superior negotiator would intimate or directly convey this intention to pressure the counterpart. This is what I think transpired.
For those still in mourning over loss of Ty, I suggest you ponder the possible alternative. Is it not easier to root for Fox and Sabonis than Randle and Ty? Randle is not as likable though I do like how hard he competes. In both scenarios we would become a better more balanced team. But Randle bickers with teammates. He takes bad shots. He’s probably as tough as Sabonis, but his effeciency is woeful in comparison following his outlier season. Randle has not proven his ability as a primary scorer, so you would run into the same challenges as you would with a Ty and Sabonis pairing. But this was a viable backup had not the primary plan been successfully executed.
Ty can lead the NBA in assists. But he lacks burst and his on-ball defense leaves much to be desired. He led a 4th quarter collapse in his first game with IND, a fold job for which Fox would have been raked over the coals! Ty got in trouble with jump passes, caught in the air with nowhere to go. Unlike Fox and Davion, Ty can need a pick to get into the lane. This is going to limit his rise to a perennial all-star. He may want to develop his off hand and ability to go left. I wonder about his ability to hold muscle, he is rather slender, which could effect his durability and FTAs.
Everything we lost with Ty can be readily replaced except for his three point shooting. The steals and off ball defense can be replaced by Davion and Donte. The shot creation can be replaced by Fox, Davion and Sabonis. His leadership can be replaced by Ox. The on-ball defense will be upgraded by Davion Holiday and Donte. Where he will be most missed is the deep shooting especially in cutch. He is 10 for 18 from 3s in two games for IND, 55%! Ty is splendid in his assists in open court too, early hits in transition. If you want to add this to the L column, that is fair as well.
The net effect of these tradeoffs however is better team defense and offense, the result of significant talent increase and synergy of talent. The fact that we are bearing witness to synergy with no practice time is extremely encouraging. Ty is a connector, but the team has been more connected in two games than we have seen most of the season. This is not just a case of McGenius striking again, this is his ultimate strike to date, a stunning and ferocious rebuke of his critics who deemed him asleep or aimless. To the doomers and cynics, your narrative has been foiled, your paradigm shattered; take take the L, amend your grade to A++, and hop aboard the Party Train to the Play-In. Choo-choo, full steam ahead!
This is your fault Want2win. I blame you for this. You yelled Beetlejuice, and out cames Kings4ever with more Buddy Yield hot takes and the iike. This is all your fault. YOU owe us an apology. This is your fault.
I take full responsibility and it is my fault… unfortunately I have no answer on how to fix .. maybe ask about Wagner.. and this made me laugh, which was needed after a crazy day at work..
Guru you are correct I do owe an apology and since it’s Valentine’s Day and I am happily Married I fully understand apologies . To all of TKH I am sorry for my transgression and conjuring the long superfluous ramblings and overly confident commentary of one of the communities most verbose and confident/arrogant posters. With that said I will gladly take my punishment and pay my reparations in the form of Ziller Bucks to be deposited by the US treasury once you send me your account information, social security #, passwords, email address, mothers maiden name, first make and model of your car, first grade teachers name, where you met your spouse and birth place..
Great points ! Team is clearly better and heading in the right direction with plenty of timeline !
This is an interesting wrinkle and one I hadn’t thought about. I would assume that ultimately McNair and the FO would have preferred to pair De’Aaron with Domas for reasons you state: Domas is ultimately a playmaker, De’Aaron is ultimatley a scorer. They pair better off each other than Ty & Domas would.
I will say that while I’ve generally liked Julius Randle over the years (and he’s more efficient in years past than he has been this year), I’ve also liked Domas more ultimately. I’m far more excited to watch a Sabonis-Fox pairing than I would have been a Haliburton-Randle pairing because, in large part, Domas and De’Aaron fit each other timeline’s. Domas wants to be not only in Sac, partly because of his wife, he wanted a very new kind of role that maximizes who he really is as a player. If the first two games are any indication, he’ll get that here.
As much as we ruminated about whether or not the Fox/Haliburton pairing could work, the truth is Domas/Myles Turner had to be broken up, too. Indy might have had a bitter pill to swallow in Buddy Hield, but they might be able to figure him out, too. Ultimately it comes down to timelines and what they can ultimately achieve now that Domas is no longer on that roster. As long as he was there, they were limited in ways they can improve. Now, his removal allows them to change their roster to be a better than 1st round and out playoff team.
I think that exchange of pieces increases Sac’s ceiling, too. I’ll say it over and over again (Larry Bird be damned): This is a win-win team for 2 franchises on 2 very different timelines. But that’s probably too nuanced a perspective for hot take land and TV pundits.
It’s not that well said. I should have said a win-win trade instead of a win-win team in the last line. Happy fat fingers FTW?
I can’t imagine Rick Carlisle is going to let Buddy launch bad shots at will for very long.
And then what? That’s what I’m wondering.
2 games? One against a G league and the other on a B2B surprise.
Team is improved. Certainly.
Better teams just might expose the lack of spacing between Fox/Sabonis.
Let’s see how they do against a healthy and 100 percent Heat, Suns, Dubs, Bucks, Utah, Boston, etc.
I won’t truly judge the ceiling of this team until they start facing bonafide playoff contenders with their full compliment of stars. Let’s also see 23 more games of the last 2.
Purple shades are blinding.
The Kings beat a very good Timberwolves team, and then traveled 3,000 miles to take care of business against the Wizards. No small feat in my book.
About playing these other teams you mention, let’s see what happens. If the Kings can’t beat superior teams, I imagine the Kings will be competitive, and be in most of these games until the end, with a chance of winning a couple.
A far cry from where we were 3 games ago.
Man, a lot to unpack here. Good post
Agree, in general.
Hali was unique and special. Kings were losing. Hali and Fox were redundant. This is an example of taking the BPA- get the best one and reconfigure later. Taht’s what Monte did. Fox and Hali were redundant but that does not mean that their games are the same- I think Fox will fit better with the Ox. And he has more of a score first killer instinct in 4th. Kings need that. I loved/hated Buddy and it is better that he is gone. DDV and Holiday will not score as much but they will play some defense.
Jerry was unsure of DDV- I think the issue is the old injury and he is a confident guy trying to make an impression and jacked up what we thought were Buddy shots and he thought the same as Buddy: “this one is going in”.
Tonight’s game with Nets is important- just have to win- Nets hobbled with injury etc. and Kings cannot lose it. Not cannot lose it as in- “oh, we got this” but as in lose this and we have lost huge opportunity.
Kings have done a lot of waiting and lottery shopping. What does a top 2 pick get you? the chance at MB 3.
I hope this move is parallel to the Bulls and Vuc last year.
A lot of thoughtful analysis and commentary here, thanks to all involved.
Having only just now listened, and knowing the results of the superbowl, I appreciated the support shown for my Bengals. As a fan of that team, and the Kings, maybe that’s what has made me so patient about what happens in Sacramento. Thirty-one years between playoff wins? Sixteen years out of the playoffs isn’t so hard to take, especially now that we’re seeing the benefit of hiring a GM who knows what he’s doing.
If the Bengals can get to the superbowl after winning six games in two years, then anything is possible in Sacramento.
This is a really worthwhile read:
Quality human being, and one of those guys who is a forever King as far as I’m concerned. Rooting for his success in Indy.