The Sacramento Kings embarrassed themselves Sunday night. Perhaps they were focused on getting home to their Valentine’s Day plans, or perhaps the Memphis Grizzlies are simply that much better. Whatever the reason, the Grizzlies walked all over the Kings en route to a 124-110 victory.
The Kings were led by De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton, two of the only Kings who bothered to show up. Fox didn’t even have a great game, shooting just 1-8 from 3, but still finished with 23 points and 9 assists. He’s at that level where even his not-so-good games are pretty good. Haliburton finished with 22 points and did everything he could to keep the Kings in the game during a disastrous third quarter.
Richaun Holmes (13 points) and Cory Joseph (16 points) were the only other Kings to score in double figures. Harrison Barnes and Buddy Hield were both no-shows.
The Grizzlies had seven players score in double figures, led by 25 points from Jonas Valanciunas.
The Kings don’t have much time to dwell on this loss as they play the Brooklyn Nets tomorrow. Oh boy, that should be swell.
Tank you very much!
LOL!
Kangz are back in town!
Happy Valentine’s Day Kangz fans.
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“I TANK TANK TANK YOU”
For anyone that needs to bookmark this again:
http://www.tankathon.com
Also, I cant quite figure out Buddy Hield’s continued nose dive this season. He’s been worse in almost all measurable categories this season aside from some improved passing. Maybe Covid’s got him in the dumps.
I was watching a replay of game highlights from 2 years ago (don’t ask why), and Buddy was clearly quicker and more agile back then. I didn’t realize it until comparing him to 2019.
He looks chubby, like he’s carrying a good ten pounds more than he should be.
He’s also gotten 3 years older in the last 2 years
We don’t know that for sure. He’s probably 38.
Ha!
He has gotten heavier and slower ! Seems even his open shots are less open ! The good news is his handle is the same shitshow just slower !
Me too, Buddy. Me too.
It’s like Buddy, Bjelica, Cojo, Whiteside, GR3, and Bagley make many plays that dont contribute to winning. Missing shots are one thing. But the same stupid mistakes every game because of low bbiq is killing this team. For every nice play it’s surrounded by bone headed decisions. It’s so frustrating, I hope McNair brings in higher bbiq players during this rebuild. Hali is great start!
Bagleys lack of BBIQ main reason we lost this game
Bagley did not play tonight.
I’m pretty sure that was the joke.
Bags biggest issue is he is as soft as mush !
This is pretty much it, and it really shows up on the defensive end.
Too funny. this comment turned into a bag on bagley comment from a game he didnt even play in. LOL.
HB on his off days, Buddy this season, and Holmes guarding these bigger guys is tough to watch.
Barnes is presently into one of his extended, multi-game disappearing acts.
Maybe Luke Walton should change his diet. I mean, he could be allergic to gluten, and that wouldn’t be very good.
OT: Hoping this isn’t serious for Giles.
I hate this world.
Haters gonna … keep living in this world. Whacha gonna do?
Guess I’ll just go play miniature golf. 😛
Idk what’s happening here but color me intrigued
the tank is back on track ð
That Memphis team is everything the Kings should be striving for. They are young, well coached, have a clean cap sheet and have nowhere to go but up. When Jackson Jr. and Winslow return to that rotation… look out.
Speaking of coaching, check out Memphis’ head coach’s history. Taylor Jenkins has little basketball history. I’m not sure he even played competitively. The dude has a business degree from a private university. He then started as an intern just 13 years ago for the Spurs at the age of 23. He moved his way up the ranks of the G-League before becoming an assistant under Budenholzer 7 years ago. He is now 36 and is in his 2nd year as the head coach of an NBA team. INCREDIBLE.
I think ever since the Kings missed the playoffs in 2007, every team that has been bad has had some kind of upswing while we continue to be stuck in the mud.
Dude, the Lakers won a title with Kobe, Odom, Fisher, Gasol, and
Waltonin 2010. They then tanked and got a bunch of high picks, then moved those picks for AD and signed Lebron. They’ve now won another title.That has all happened since the Kings last made the playoffs.
If a team can win it all, then stink it up for a number of years, then rebuild for another title before your team can even sniff the playoffs, you may have a problem.
Ha! We technically have an “NBA Champion” head coach!
If you really go through the whole league, almost every single team has been good, tanked and been good again over the Kings stretch of not making the playoffs. Literally almost every single team in the NBA. One of the only ones who hadn’t was the Suns but they are definitely going to make it this year barring a second half collapse.
Heck, the Cleveland Browns made the postseason before the Kings!
Need a new head coach? Look no further than Kenny Atkinson.
Built the foundation for a superteam and made D-Russell an All-Star.
Hell, I’d settle for Stan Atkinson.
His resume sounds similar to Nick Nurse’s too. I hope our coach comes in the offseason.
He was the captain of his varsity basketball team. I honestly don’t think it’s possible to make it to that level or even the college level without at least making the varsity team in High School.
Haliburton’s no show against Orlando started the negative momentum
How about those two Valanciunas plays at the end?
Am I supposed to be mad that no one threw hands? Or was it whatever it’s just the garbage time stuff?
And letting JV crap on you, then Tillman yammed on you, and don’t forget Vucevic yammed on you too at the end of the last game. The lack of heart and fight is obvious.
Luke is a flop. Emotionless team for an emotionless coach. Don’t let me fall for that fool’s gold again please Kings community. This defense and this personnel will not win. Help keep me in the lottery mindset. Thanks y’all.
Unfortunately, until Vivek backs the fuck off or leaves the Kings will be a foundation of shit. The Organization is horribly run. For Christ’s sake, Walton is still the fucking coach. Rumors of medaling with new GM. On and on.
This is what depresses me. There is no where to go until that piece o shit owner figures it out…if….
-And my love of Haliburton almost makes me forget and believe.
Not so fun fact:
Grizz have Dillon Brooks under contract for the next 2 season at an average of $12M per year. He’s just 25.
The Kings have Buddy Hield under contract for the next 3 years for an average of $20M per year. He’s already 28.
Imagine Buddy off the bench. That contract would hurt a tad bit less, as crazy as it seems.
Fox, Haliburton, Barnes, Bjelica & Holmes start. Hield, Whiteside, Bagley et al off the bench.
I liked how hard Dillon played even though he was annoying me. Corey Joseph making just as much as him is ugly.
Barnes is still inconsistent even in his best season and Buddy is really bad right now. We just need talent. Imagine giving Holmes 15-18M and he is still the same.. We will be stuck forever in the lottery.
I suggested that the Kings get Brooks in return in response to a comment about an imaginary trade, and I was laughed at.
Well, yeah. Brooks is terrible. He’s got a 47TS%, plays terrible defense, and is barely above water on ast:to. And he wouldn’t get the advantage of playing against the Kings.
And the Griz are paying Kyle Anderson $9-10M per season the next two years to be younger and as impactful as Harrison Barnes who is making $19M per season the next two years.
Again, not a knock on Barnes who is a good basketball player and person. But just overpaid compared to comparable players. Not really the end of the world if you have cap space or are a contender trying to get over the top, but just an inefficient use of cap space.
Jackson, Morant, Bane, Tillman is also one heck of a 3-year draft haul IMO. I really think targeting productive high BBIQ upperclassmen later in the 1st and 2nd is a smart approach.
I’m hoping Woodard or Ramsey ends up on a list of ours at some point.
Aren’t we all.
Well, you are if you’re a Kings fan BHE. LOL
I hope that isn’t the “I wish we had re-signed them instead of…” list
I try to not think about that sort of stuff honestly.
Agreed – you know I love my high IQ, high skill players :).
Obviously way too early to judge this year’s draft, but given Tillman’s pedigree and performance so far, there is certainly some pressure on our 2nd round picks to work out.
Here’s my problem. How are the Kings going to improve on their dollar to contract value? It’s not just as simple as replacing Barnes, it’s also replacing that production which isn’t going to be as simple as it seems.
I know it seems like I’m defending the decision (which I’m not really), but I do think Barnes has more value than just his production on the court (for better or worse). Opening up cap space is easy, but having value you can at least depend on has some value even if tangibly speaking isn’t going to show up on something like a dollar to value contract list.
FWIW, I think McNair will probably look at the kind of players we are talking about Memphis has now. It just will take a few years to remove SOME of the sins of Vlade Divac and his attitudes towards team building.
Fair enough. I don’t think we have to trade Barnes for scrap. I just think that we are paying a pretty high amount for a role player. And while he is arguably earning his contract so far this year, I am not sure if that continues and think could probably replace his role and 90% of his production much cheaper.
I think most savvy teams build cheap and flexible (adding some bad contracts in exchange for assets) and preserve flexibility. Then sometimes take on some less efficient contracts when they are on the cusp and ready to go “all in.”
I mean, all summary stats are flawed for the NBA, so by no means would I argue they prove anything definitive. But pick any of them and Barnes is a pretty middling SF/PF. RPM for example currently puts him as the #21 SF. That’s not bad. That’s a starter. But it doesn’t really justify $22M either.
We could probably get 80% of his value for a fraction of the cost. So if we can trade him for multiple assets to a contender who is willing to sacrifice some asset efficiency to content, that’s a big win. If Boston is really willing to make a good offer (always a big if with Ainge), we can get assets and if they use their trade exemption, we can shed the contract and get cap space as well.
I don’t expect you to show your work because that would be unreasonable, but this is the entire premise that frankly, any way I wish to slice it, seems untenable.
I think the only thing that fixes the sins of this clusterfuck Vlade built is time. And I don’t think the only value Barnes has is on the court. And it’s not like the Kings are anywhere near the luxury tax. The only thing dumping Barnes does, IMO, is save ownership money.
Buddy is overpaid and not very good but Dillon Brooks is terrible. He’s one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.
It looks like a complete rebuild is in order. I like Barnes, but there’s no point to having him here on his salary. Hield looks like he is never going to play with any kind of consistency.
Just compare the Kings to other teams. Who are the Kings top 3 players? And how well do they compare to the top 3 players on other teams? It is a pretty sobering thing to do.
We need to go all in on John Collins. ATL doesn’t want to pay him max so we can give them decent return instead of him pulling a bogi on them.
Bagley and lotto protected first could get it done
Going into next year with a core of fox, hali and Collins gives hope.
Add to it anything we could get for barnes, buddy etc at least we would have a competent shot at “big 3” to build around
Btw, watch us beat Brooklyn 142-140.
“Something to build on” – Doug, Kayte, Kyle, Mark, Luke
Tonight was a stark reminder that no matter how many games this team wins, it’s a fluke. They flat out stink and a push for the playoffs is a pipe dream. Trade the vets, get what you can, and hit the reset button
Not necessarily a different conclusion, but I would just argue that this is the fate of mid-level teams. An average team in aggregate will look average.
But that means for any short period of time (i.e., 10-20 games) they can look amazing. The team is fully health, shots are falling, etc. And they can go 8-2. And fans get hypes and we overrate our roster and role players.
But at some point the team normalizes and injuries hit and shots stop going in and the team goes 2-8. And the fans get depressed and we underrate our roster and role players.
This is all normal. And this is what we are and it’s fine. We are an average team. We look great for a few games and awful for a few games. We have some promising young players, but are better off trading players like Barnes for assets and building around our core than pushing any material amount of chips into the pot to try to bluff and win an average hand.
No. We are not an average team. We are a bad team and have been a bad team for an unprecedented amount of time.
Some people will forego the tank and aim for just being average for one season so we can break the play-off drought, even at the expense of getting significantly better long-term. And likely the owner agrees with pursuing these short-term goals.
Can I blame him for that? Yes.
Is he’s supported in that by the GM and his special advisor on all kinds of stuff including Bball. I don’t know.
I nearly typed slightly below average or mediocre. But we’ve been the 11th and 13th worst teams the last two seasons despite playing in the harder conference. If we were in the East, we would arguably have been a playoff team the last two seasons. I’d say that puts us pretty close to average, but won’t quibble if someone wants to argue below average.
Larger point is that really bad teams (think our 17 win season) lose pretty consistently with a good occasional game.
Mediocre or teams anywhere around average will have streaks that make fans think they have turned a corner. Almost any 35-45 win team has a stretch in their season where they go 10-5 and look fantastic. Problem is, they predictably go through a similar stretch where they go 5-10 or worse.
Any Kings fan should recognize this patter. How many times have we heard people even trying to say Vlade deserves to keep his job because we started hot 2 years ago or had the one stretch in February before the shutdown where we played well. But that’s not turning a corner, that is just the expectation for a mediocre team.
But at some point the team normalizes and injuries hit
Thats my issue, Klam.
I’m tired of normal KANGZ year after year, but I do appreciate your take, and the subtle jab at injuries hit Marvin.
I hope Monte hits the phones sooner than later
Excellent post. I agree that we’re an average team… But an average team with a less than average coach, which probably makes us a less than average team.
The only good news is our franchise backcourt of Fox/Haliburton showed up. I’m over the up and down hope. Let’s make some trades and better our chances for Cade/Mobley/Kuminga. Our fanbase is owed at least one good fleece job on the trade market for our suffering right?
We won the #2 pick for our suffering and screwed it up. The NBA ain’t giving us another one.
We actually won the #3 (it got swapped with philly) and #2 pick in consecutive years. We have had so much bad ownership and poorly ran front offices. Its sickening. Whenever we have a good coach like Malone or Joerger, this team showed so much promise. And when that promise started showing, the front office started meddling more, leading to good coaches walking.
Agree 100. As I stated earlier, we are screwed w Vivek running the show.
it is sickening, gross/egotistical behavior from ownership. It’s not hard to have a good team if you give a shit about winning.
Good news. We don’t need that.
Top teams in the NBA:
Jazz
Lakers
Clippers
76ers
Suns
Bucks
Nets
Blazers
Pacers
Spurs
Total organic top 3 pick taken in the last decade between all of those teams?
6
And among championship teams from the last decade?
4 (Ball, Ingram, and Russell for the Lakers, Duncan for the Spurs)
Most winning teams have built organically. Made smart decision and / or then robbed other bad teams of their stars. Sure, some like the Lakers have the advantage of LA and are not replicable for us. But the Raptors, Warriors, and Mavs are right up our alley.
As much as I like to believe in smart decisions with low picks and trades as a good strategy to build a team (and I do, to am extent), it also requires a significant amount of luck.
Were the Bucks smart in picking Gianis? Sure. But how lucky were they that no other organization infromt of them picked him?
The higher you pick, the more choice you have and the more you control your own destiny.
The Bucks also took Thon Maker #10 and I’ve been to a Bucks thread after the Bogi trade and they are pissed off about their missed draft picks when building around Giannis.
It was undoubtedly luck that they took Giannis, he was an athletic freak from overseas, that is about as big a gamble as there is.
Anyway our team will be in mid lottery hell for the foreseeable future with our roster construction so I’ll say that the Kings need a proven coach who brings a proven developmental staff. Because we are the unluckiest team in the league, we are not hitting on a superstar mid lottery.
I’m not sure you can call a team that just into the top 3 in two of the past 4 drafts (including one that put us in line for a generational star) unlucky. The Kings haven’t been unlucky. We’ve been incompetent. There’s a BIG difference.
Yeah a couple weeks ago I made the case we’ve been one of the luckiest teams in the league over the last 5 years. Bad management will always trump luck.
Even though we’ve got top 3 picks, luck is still a factor in selecting rookies.
Anyone can say how did Vlade miss on the youngest Euro MVP in history in hindsight, but the Suns and the Hawks also passed on him, because Luka has been the only overseas superstar drafted in the top 10 since I can remember. He’s a once in a generation Euro star. When the odds are that low and history proves failure, that’s a lucky pick.
Coming off a 39 win season? Marvin getting hurt with a fluke thumb injury? Then the foot? Bad luck. Fox getting hurt too.
Drafting a rim running defensive center who didn’t want to settle into his role and earn 7 figures a year? Willie is the only center I can remember who hasn’t accepted a rim running role. That’s gotta be bad luck.
Further back, we picked McLemore and T-Rob, two of the “safest picks” and consensus top 7 mocked picks by all analysts in those drafts. The fact that no other team could develop them either supports that whether we were competent or not we were unlucky on two busts. Other teams were gonna draft them too guaranteed.
Projected #1 lottery pick in 08? Fell to #4.
6 other teams passed on Steph too, who knew he would be a small school generational talent and change the league. That’s unlucky.
How did we get the most meddling owner in the league? If you can’t explain it away, then I just say we’re unlucky.
No doubt we’ve had bad management, but we’ve been unlucky too.
The Suns took the other reasonable top guy in what was seen as a two player draft. The Hawks decided they were willing to take Young and a pick instead of Doncic. Those two teams made reasonable decisions that, to a lesser degree than Doncic obviously, have worked out for them. And the history of Euro players has nothing to do with Doncic. There has never been a Euro with his combination of age, success, pedigree and visibility. He was no more, and arguably less, of a risk than drafting a US college player. Considering the level of competition he had succeeded against, one could argue he was less of a risk than LeBron, though obviously LeBron had the athletic freak advantage. There’s no reason to discredit other teams’ good decisions as luck. And, of course, other teams bad enough to be picking that high not making the optimal choice doesn’t excuse the Kings not making the obvious choice.
That’s just the normal injury issues most teams deal with during a season. As has been pointed out many, many times the Kings didn’t deal with meaningfully more or more significant injuries than other teams. Again, not bad luck.
They chose him. His personality was part of his scouting report. They made a mistake. Again, that’s not bad luck. That’s a bad choice.
Again, making poor choices doesn’t mean you’re unlucky. They were both “falling knives.” Other teams above the Kings saw something the Kings didn’t.
This is really the only thing on the list that could actually be considered unlucky rather than the direct result of a decision made by the Kings. Of course, the worst teams not getting the top pick happens all the time. Since 2010, the team with the worst record has only gotten the top pick like 3 times. So, yes, unlucky. But hardly “Woe is me” lucky.
Again again, they CHOSE not to select Steph when they had the chance. That isn’t unlucky. That’s a mistake in evaluation.
You could include Cousins meningitis. Though that wouldn’t have been a big deal if it hadn’t led to a horrific decision that didn’t need to be made. You could include Evans health. I’d say that was unlucky. But, again, part of the game that pretty much all franchises have dealt this.
The problem with calling poor decisions “unlucky” is it gives bad decision makers a pass, and discredits good decision makers. If you take that approach then no team ever gets credit or blame for their outcomes. Ultimately, unsuccessful people/teams LOVE to give way too much credit to luck, while successful people/teams LOVE to give way too little.
I mean sure, that much is obvious, but it ignores two factors.
First, that this type of talent being present is the norm and not some type of a fluke. Of all the current playoff teams, only the 76ers, Hornets, and Suns have gotten any of their top players from their own top 3 picks. And the Lakers at least traded their top 3 picks for AD, though they are obviously a special case. More teams either struck later draft gold like the Nuggets, Jazz, Raptors, and Bucks or via great trades / signings like the Celtics, Heat (ok, not a current playoff team yet, but made the finals last year), Pacers, and Clippers.
And part of that is because even if you strike gold in the lottery, you give yourself a very narrow window to build your team back up and keep your star if you strip your team of all talent in order to land him. Yes, some GMs have essentially started with teams that had no talent or had a freak accident like the Thunder or Spurs with Duncan. But there are just as many teams like the Pelicans with AD or Wizards with Wall where they completely squander their time there or even cases like LeBron’s first run with the Cavs or D12 with the Magic where their elite talent in a weak East still led to some success, but frankly they minimized their talent and their overall accomplishments with them were underwhelming.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I’d love for us to get lucky in the lottery and get the #1 pick. Nowhere in my post did I suggest high picks were bad and we are better off getting unlucky. But if McNair and his staff are good, then we don’t need to land a top pick to become an elite team (or to win a ring). We just need to use our picks and assets well like virtually every winning and championship team.
So, we should have held on to Xavier Tillman?
Looks that way so far, but obviously too early to say.
I was only referring to Luka. The NBA gifted us Luka and we blew it.
I’m sure you knew that, and yes lower picks can also bring success but only if you have a great staff and organization. I’d rather have Luka with a bad staff than low picks and a great staff because having Luka will make a great coach want to bring his great staff here!
The Raptors hit one jackpot with a disgruntled Kawhi, other than that they’ve had a ceiling. The Warriors are the creme de la creme because they hit on 2 superstars. The Mavs are only here because we’re dumb.
I think the low pick model you are looking for is the PG Pacers. He was the only top 10 pick on those Pacers teams. In terms of building through the draft and acquiring vets along the way,, that will never happen again in my mind. That was a masterpiece in team building. Imagine if they didn’t trade Kawhi for George Hill.
I think the larger point is that even with the top pick, an organization needs to string together a bunch of good-to-great decisions in order to be successful. Obviously drafting an elite player makes things a lot easier and can cover for more mistakes and that’s easier to do at the top of the draft. But it is t a requirement.
And, of course, I’d be perfectly fine with the Kings developing the Non-Kawhi Raptors ceiling.
Bingo. Nothing would be better than having a great front office and getting lucky in the lottery in a year where there is an elite #1 talent. I would love to follow the Spurs model with Tim Duncan. Yes, please let us have a Pop-Buford quality FO and the luck / willingness to fold in a clear down year to get a generational player.
But most teams with top picks are in fact bad teams that are devoid of talent and have very bad GMs. Many drafts do not have a clear cut generational player and many of those bad GMs cannot be trusted to make good decisions (see Divac, Vlade). Even when they do stumble backwards into a good pick, they can very often blow it or cap out with a low ceiling like the Pelicans with CP3 and AD.
Meanwhile the vast majority of elite or even championship teams were build with very smart front offices using their assets really well.
The Jazz drafted Gobert at 27 and traded Tres Lyles to get the #13 pick to draft Mitchell.
The Warriors drafted Curry at 7 and then Klay 11 and Green at 35. Then they traded Monte Ellis (a 2nd round pick) for Bogut.
The Nuggets drafted Jokic at 41 and then Murray at #7.
The Raptors drafted DeRozan at 9 and traded him for Leonard, while trading a future first (#12) for Lowry and drafting Siakam (#27) and signing VanVleet.
The Pacers drafted Paul George at #10 and traded him for Oladipo and Sabonis. Then signed Brogdon and drafted Turner at #11.
The Heat drafted Bam at #14, Herro at 13, signed Duncan Robinson, and drafted Josh Richardson at #40 and traded him for Jimmy Butler.
The Bucks drafted Giannis at #15 and drafted Brandon Jennings at #10 and then traded him for Middleton. They signed Greg Monroe and then traded him and a protected first for Bledsoe, who they flipped with future picks for Holiday.
Our own GM came from a team that was one CP3 hamstring away from a championship and they rebuilt their team after Yao’s and Mcgrady’s injuries killed their team and tanked their trade value never drafting higher than #12. They drafted Landry at #31 and traded him to us for KMart who they flipped with draft picks they acquired from scrap to get Harden. Then they got CP3 for Beverly (signed FA), Harrell (drafted #32), Sam Dekker (#18 pick), Lou Williams (acquired for a late first), and a future first. And drafted Capella #25.
This is more than I planned on writing and the list goes on. So yes, on lottery night I will cheer for us to get lucky and get the #1 pick. But if we have good management (still TBD) we don’t need it. Elite teams building with top picks is not the norm. Even setting aside situations like the Lakers or Nets that we could never emulate given our market, the majority of elite teams are build far more organically and via asset efficiency and smart maneuvers.
Teams like the KD-Westbrook-Harden Thunder and Process 76ers are more the exception than the rule.
Yup, I’ve said it many times. I’d be happy with just being the Blazers.
Knowing that were not winning a title every year but golly the team does sure make it interesting
Yeah, I’m not really a fan of the outright tank. Especially with the new lottery odds.
Agreed. The older I have gotten and more I have studied winning teams – gutting your team of all talent to tank is typically not a smart move. Most savvy GMs build up their talent base and stockpile assets while trying to acquire star talent.
Now, in a lost season, waving the white flag and running out more of your rookies and testing some G-League players the final 10-20 games of the season and letting some of your vets and proven youngsters rest and avoid injury I think is still a savvy move.
Agreed on everything you are stating here Junkie. Yes it would be great to get a top 4 pick. That doesn’t seem especially likely for this Kings team because they are not devoid of talent…which isn’t a BAD thing. If you are in the 11-14 range in lottery it means you are a few smart moves away from being good. Now those have been few and far between over time with the Kings, but it doesn’t not preclude any reason it couldn’t start, especially since there is new management.
Also, there isn’t any great difference historically between drafting 5-9 and 10-14, looking back at the last 10 years of drafts. Same number of All Stars produced in either range and basically a split in which range produces the most win shares. I think at the end of the year, there may be more to build on drafting 13th and having gotten close to playoffs (young core players continuing good play), then “tanking” down to the 6-7 pick…which is probably as low as the Kings could get without some real lottery luck.
If you flat out suck anyways and your ceiling is the 6th-7th pick, then by all means tank away, cuz you have nothing. If your ceiling is borderline playoff team then that’s a different story. You aren’t that many moves away from being good.
Well said all around, but I think this is especially insightful:
People talk about that area as if it is a dead zone there is no coming back from. There used to be (and maybe still is with some people) a sense that is the worst place to be as you aren’t good enough to content, but not bad enough to get a top pick without crazy lottery luck. It’s NBA purgatory.
But most teams I listed elsewhere in this post who became very good were there and just made smart moves. The Warriors were there and drafted Klay, Green, and traded Ellis for Bogut. The Rockets were there upsold their assets till they became Harden. I won’t rehash the whole list, but it’s big.
Meanwhile, teams like the Hornets got there and then made moves like signing Batum and Stephenson to large deals and drafting Vonleh (#9), Kaminsky (#9), and Monk (#11) and traded a pick to Vlade for Belinelli. No GM is going to get 100% of draft picks right, but Turner, Booker, Siakam, Mitchell, and Bam went within 5 picks of those misses. They had chances to build on their success and they made their own purgatory. And that’s true for most teams that don’t get over the hump and get stuck in mediocrity.
Totally agree on the importance of that mid lottery range. Why? This is how I see ideal drafts playing out nowadays.
#1) Consensus All Star/Superstar
#2-9) Freshmen/Soph projects with potential to be All-Star/Bust/Teams reach for their guy
#10-20) NBA ready Soph/Junior Role players who have All-Star/Starter potential/Bench floor. Good NBA players fall to patient teams.
#21-40) Juniors/Seniors who can ball, Freshmen with tools and flaws, Busts, Euro stashes.
In that mid lottery range, you get a player who’s ready off the bench, who accepts his role because there’s no privileged draft position, and can grow into something more.
This draft was different. Everyone thought it was weak because there was no Superstar or All-Stars projected, but it was full of guys who would normally be in that 10-20 range, at the top (Okoro, Toppin, Avdija, Vassell, Hali) and even down at the bottom (Vassell, Bey, Maxey, Quickley, Pritchard, Bane,Tillman) which makes this class look even better than a normal draft.
This is why I hate the tank and the focus should be on hiring developmental guys from the Heat, Raptors, Spurs, Thunder, etc.
People want the full tank because we haven’t done it in forever, maybe that Zach Randolph season. Yikes. But other than that, Boogie and Rudy prevented the full tank for a few years.
To those who do want the tank, I raise you another season of Beno, KMart, Garcia, JT, and Hawes. Y’all might be fine with skipping Kings basketball for a whole season, but I like to watch my team play.
And I agree, this won’t even guarantee you a top pick.
Two of those 3 will turn out to be just OK players !
The Kings are currently 13th in the ping pong ball standings, 5 wins from the top pick.
Since they’ve blown a proper tank because #kangz, at this point they would need to pry away somebody else’s pick to move up.
And the only player the have with a chance to do that is Fox. Who I can’t see being moved.
I was for blowing the team up prior to that 7 of 8 run..
Fox/Hali/Hield/Barnes/Holmes have formed a death advanced statistical lineup for most the year
I think the talent on the team is sufficient, without a terrible coach
before blowing the team up have to see it without Luke
The talent on the team is sufficient for being a 6th-8th seeded playoff team for sure as Fox/Hali mature, and steady role players, with a serious coach
Buddy, Barnes, Holmes, Joseph and Bjelica should all get traded for any assets that can be had. Do whatever it takes to get in the top 5 of the 2021 draft. Build around Fox, Hali and whoever gets selected with that pick.
A deal surrounding buddy for Aaron Gordon, barnes for Nesmith/R Williams and bos 1st, belly for korkmaz, Bagley and lotto protected first for John Collins.
Cojo isn’t going anywhere except for salary filler. I haven’t looked for holmes but if he’d stay as a backup big (that means salary too) I’d love to keep him
I want Korkmaz on our team, if only for the fact that I can type, “oh, THAT Furkan guy?”
.. I’ll let myself out.
Unless that player is great hope you enjoy being even worse and hoping for the next draft and 19 year old savior !
I’m not sure what you all are watching that want this team to get into the bottom 5 record wise…they are not that bad. Assuming Fox and Hali play at the level they have been at this team will win some games. I don’t know what message you are sending those guys, especially Fox as he starts his extension next year, that we are tearing this down and going on a 3 year complete rebuild.
Now if injuries befall this team and you get to the last 10-15 games and want to give some G League guys some run fine. But there are 45 games left….if this team hits a little 4 out of 6 streak starting tomorrow they are right there. That matters for Fox and Hali’s development… meaningful games.
Can anyone explain why we did not go to the paint and try to draw foul after the Grizzles was in the penalty like 2 minutes into the 4 Qtr ?
(It was not like the issue under Walton’s era, we did not do the same even under different coaches)
The team need to play smart….!!!
They actually did go to the line a bunch they just missed most of the free throws.
Didn’t matter. They can’t stop anyone for 3-4 straight possessions and when they do get back to back stops, Buddy Hield misses a big three or they turn it over right back.
Yeah as always when the Kings are bad, it’s the defense. The offense was pretty terrible last night as well but the defense is why this team has been bad for so long.
Well, at least we know that we’re sellers, now.
In the trade thread I specifically asked if we could revisit after losing to the Magic… and we lost to the Magic. This is just the bad team hamster wheel.
Guarantee we won’t be sellers. You know why? Because as much as we know that KANGZ can return at any time to erase a 6-1 hot stretch, a hot stretch of play can return at any time to erase a KANGZ stretch.
It will keep the FO always chasing .500 and probably hopeful enough to not sell.
My only hope is that Monte McNair is smart enough to realize that won’t get us anywhere AND has the decision making authority to do something about it.
I hope so too. But winning means everything for the players. Idk maybe Fox will be ok with it, but I just imagine a “SMH” tweet when we trade Barnes, especially if we’re only a few games out from that 10th seed. Then the Pandora’s Box has been opened.
So I think we’d have to be completely in the tank record wise to be true fire sale sellers.
I honestly believe Buddy and Barnes won’t be traded until after the season. Then u can sell the fact to Fox that this core cannot make the playoffs and needs a shake up.
A. They shouldn’t be afraid to make hard decisions just because it might upset Fox.
B. They should bring Fox in on their plans before those types of moves happen.
They shouldn’t and I knew it would brought up.
Now I say, Fox hasn’t done anything to earn either of those things. The FO should not care yet what he thinks, but also, he hasn’t done anything yet to earn a say in decision making. So that’s why the result will be an unknown and I don’t want to find out. Fox is smart but he also speaks freely so we’ll see.
I know whatever he says won’t lead to a trade request or anything ludicrous but it’ll just be another dark day if Fox even hints at displeasure.
I am not so sure the Kings will be as lucky moving forward. This team really benefited from the other teams injuries during that streak. Most of those so-called quality wins came against teams dealing with injuries to key players.
The only real quality win, if you can call it that, was the Raptors, who were only missing Anounby.
Wins against the Pels, Celtics, Nuggets, and Clippers were all with Big Asterisks:
Pels: Adams, Redick
Nuggets: Murray, Dozier, Harris
Celtics; Smart, Pritchard, and Kemba
Clips: George and Beverly
Barring injury to our team, I think we’ll still have some fortunate injury games as well in the 2nd half, allowing us to steal a few more games.
With Covid, less days off, the cramming of make up games in the 2nd half, we might be even more lucky. But I get your point as well, we are a fool’s gold team with a fool’s gold record so far
I blame the loss on the fact that they introduced the Grizzlies with Let’s Get it On.
Any team with Marvin Gaye on their side shall not lose.
And any team with Marvin Bagley on their side…
Apparently will ALWAYS lose! We’ve won zero games without Bagley!
Extending Buddy is turning out to be one of the worst (among many) front office moves in King’s history.
Honestly I take a bit of personal responsibility for that. I was a fan chanting pay Buddy at Vlade at FanFest last year.
So I’m burdened with the fact that I can’t blame Vlade for that.
Fear not! There are many other things to blame Vlade for.
At the moment I’m feeling pretty good about my calls to trade him in the season before the extension.
Wish I was you. We had Bogi too and Buddy just had probably the best season he’ll ever have. Imagine the haul we coulda got!
Kings history? Haha broooooooo not even close, like not top 50 close
Which really says more about Kings history than it does about Buddy’s extension.
Looking at the teams above us, it would be prudent to blow this thing up. Playoffs are out of the question this season.
You know the drill. Barnes, Buddy, Belly, CoJo traded immediately.
Fire Walton, don’t forget
The more things change the more they stay the same. I’d be surprised if this weren’t so predictable. It’s the mediocrity treadmill. But seriously, the point differential and net rating suggested even during the 7-1 stretch that this team wasn’t very good and that still seems accurate.
One positive compared to the Orlando game: Haliburton being aggressive. In the third quarter last night, unlike against Orlando, he looked to get his own shot much more consistently. Unsurprisingly, the offense looked a lot better when he did. He needs to keep up that aggression especially in games where nobody else is scoring like last night.
The fact that we’ve only had one win by more than 10 pts has also proven that.
Just stay in the GLeague Robert and Jah’mius, you ain’t getting any garbage minutes here.
I hope we have a plan. At some point, a desperatly fight to reach the play-in will hurt our future. I’m only ok about play to win games if we get back at 8th or 7th seed.
If we continue like this, blow everything and sit Fox for the rest of the season.
This just seems like the quickest way in 1-2 years for the Fox wants out trade rumors to begin…which if anything the last 7-8 years of NBA history should tell us will come. Then where are you at? Trading him for picks and tanking, then placing your hopes on another prized rookie and hoping he can develop into a Fox level player (maybe better)? Another 4 year process before you are possibly right back where you are now?
SptsJunkie highlighted numerous teams who have built consistent contenders without picking in the top 5…it’s not some pie in the sky dream or complete luck. It takes good decision making and moves which have been completely absent since Petrie. Petrie’s good teams were not built at all on drafting in the top 5. One shrewd move at a time.
The Pelican traded AD for a trove of picks, Ingram and lucked out to get Zion…and what now? I don’t really know if they in a much better position than the Kings to win over the next 2-3 years.
It’s one thing to tank when your best players are John Salmons and Marcus Thornton. Quite another when it’s Fox and a rapidly developing Hali.
The Kangz came back? Huh. Here I thought they never left……
We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.
Time for the Kings to get lucky in the draft lottery!
Classic.
Walton is not the issue. We just have subpar talent across the board. I’m all in on trading Harrison – even though I love the guy. Nesmith and a First from Boston or Korkmaz and a first from Philly and I’d be doing Jumping Jacks. I’d also love it if we could get DeVicenzo from Milwaukee for Barnes straight up – but don’t think they have a trade exception, so would require a 3rd team and a dumping of assets likely. Haven’t looked over Milwaukee’s cap sheet.
Even though we want everything to happen overnight because its been so damn long since we made the playoffs, its not going to happen. We’ve got “The Process – 2.0” going now – draft / trade for athletic, switchable wings, build around a player with star talent (Fox) and hope we can one more through development (Bagely, Hali are the most likely); draft or trade.
Gonna be awhile. Is what it is.
At any given time there are perhaps a half dozen NBA coaches that get net wins for their team (Rivers, Snyder, Pop, Spoelstra, for example), and perhaps a half dozen that cost the their team net wins . The rest are interchangeable. I put Walton either in the bottom six or the lowest end of the interchangeable. You can’t convince me that this team would not be better under Pop or Snyder or Spoelstra or Rivers, especially on the defensive end.
If Walton ain’t the cause, he sure as hell ain’t the cure. Nowhere to go but up, really.
No doubt about this now.
Look at Thibs with the same Knicks as last year. The man has his flaws but golly he can coach and motivate his players.
Eh. He mostly just plays his best players into the ground. Just wait for their inevitable piling up of injuries and late season swoon.
Yep. Good short-term results wherever he goes, but he wears the tread off of his players both physically and emotionally. He has not proven to be a good long-term solution.
He has been flawed but as mentioned below has a corner been turned with the minutes?
Also, do I blame him for Rose? Yes, but after the injury they still won more than 44 games for the next 4 years. They would have won a lot more.
I don’t know. Randle leads the NBA in minutes played and Barrett is 8th. And, of course, they’re 13-15 in the East. So it’s isn’t like they’re seeing some great success.
Small sample size yes but he’s been playing a 10 man rotation lately.
Other than that, he’s won where he’s gone, his defense travels with him, and dudes go back to play for him
Walton ain’t the guy
I’m not saying Walton is a good coach. I’m just saying that we aren’t going to magically start winning if the Kangz replace him. I agree with your take that there are a half dozen really good coaches, and the rest are interchangeble. Walton is one of the interchangeable. BTW, we aren’t getting Pop, Snyder, Spoelstra or Rivers. If we move on, we’re gonna get . . . drumroll . . . one of those interchangeable coaches. Do the following names scream plus 10 wins to you? retreads: Gentry, Brett Brown, the “take that for data” guy – sorry old guy brain fart on the name, Dwayne Casey – I’m assuming he’s gone in Detroit after this year. unproven assistants: Juwann Howard, Jerry Stackhouse. I don’t really know all their names, but how has that gone recently? Mostly meh. Good team, the assistant does well, bad team, not so much (see Indiana, Charlotte, Chicago, etc.). Top College Coach (realistic): Chris Beard, Shaka Smart, Steve Alford, Bob Huggins, Sean Miller. Their recent history in the league (absent Brad Stevens) has not been great. See John Belien as a recent example.
Just my two cents.
Minnesota has an All-NBA center, an All-Star PG, a #1 pick, a bona-fide 20 pt scorer, and multiple 1st rounders, and I know for a fact that even though KAT has been out for most of the season, they aren’t going anywhere with that coach no matter how long they play together to build chemistry.
Why? Because when KAT has missed games, they have looked utterly awful. A coach makes the best of what he has. Walton has made what Joerger built worse.
BTW, I don’t give Luke credit for Fox’s emergence. Fox puts in the work in the offseason.
Only a team like the Kings can twice in a row take a head coach that had the team going in an upward direction only to pull the plug.
The Kings are Charmin 3-ply soft. The Metu play when Jonas throws him to the ground was dangerous and disgusting. No King came over to confront Jonas. I’m no means an advocate for violence, however throwing your teammate to the ground when they are six feet in the air has to be confronted. Instead you have Joseph and Jonas laughing two plays later….. wow…. embarrassed by this team to be honest….
I didn’t know there was such a thing as an unsportsmanlike foul. I thought an unsportsmanlike foul was basically a Flagrant 1. What JV did at minimum was a flagrant 1 but IMO it should have been an ejection. Metu could have gotten seriously hurt and all we get was a 1 freakin free throw?!
Bagley got ejected in NO for hopping around but JV threw a man to the ground and gets an unsportsmanlike conduct call. The NBA refs are BS!
Jonas Valanciunas is such a big bitch
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