Vent away.
Full recap to follow.
Postgame Thread: Spurs 127, Kings 125
I’m sure the discourse after this one will be calm and measured!
By Greg Wissinger | 118 Comments | Dec 1, 2024
December 1, 2024; Sacramento, California, USA; Sacramento Kings forward DeMar DeRozan (10) shoots the basketball against the San Antonio Spurs during the second quarter at Golden 1 Center. Mandatory Credit: Kyle Terada-Imagn Images
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This freaking team. I want to think that the Kings are more talented than the Spurs, and the they just got out coached or something, but I think the Spurs are actually more talented and better coached, and run a better offensive and defensive system.
Spurs are better in every way.
What can we expect the Kings to start doing that will win games?
48 wins seems a long time ago.
OKC rebuilt, Houston and San Antonio ascendant, Warriors and Lakers improved.
I honestly don’t see a future for this roster.
Not that we can expect it, but I think we all know what they need to do – shoot 3s at a respectable clip, defend 3s at a reasonable clip. Until/unless they can do that, we’re just watching the ship sink.
Hiatus time! This team sucks and I like my sanity.
Yeah I’m about there.
Yeah, I’m mentally preparing to disengage for a while, maybe the remainder of the season.
This makes me sad. They looked solid…then they didn’t.
You can’t win in 2024 being out scored from 3 every game. Every time they go up, the other team comes back easily because they just hit 3s while the Kings shoot midrange 2s. Every time the Kings are down, it’s a struggle to make up ground because of that same math problem.
I have no idea how a GM from the Morey tree decided to build a team who’s 3 best players aren’t 3 point shooters. I know our regular role player shooters suddenly decided to forget how to shoot but the general makeup of this team is puzzling.
It’s shocking to think that Monte came from the Morey tree, considering this oddball roster.
Yeah I don’t get it. They’ve gotten absolutely destroyed from three since game one of the preseason and haven’t made one structural change to the roster or changed their defensive scheme. It’s just a wild team building misread.
A few more losses and this season will pretty much be over. It’s not just that we’re losing a bunch of games, but all other teams in the West are winning.
Looks like I will not be renewing League Pass before the next auto-renewal comes later this month.
The West is just silly good. Currently you have to be the 4 seed in the East just to be a play-in team in the West, and I only expect that to widen.
To repeat from the game thread:
When you give up 64% from 2, 50% from the field, and 50% from 3, all while you shoot the league averages and score 125 points, you can’t say the problem is the offense. The Kings cannot get a stop. As Bibby just said in the postgame, “You don’t win games when you allow 23 3pt makes.”
Call it the system, the culture, the roster, or whatever, either way this team is dead in the water with the way they are currently playing defense.
The culture needs to change. It needs to be a basic expectation like tying one’s shoes. Play defense or no contract.
If players have been in the league several years and aren’t that good defensively, I don’t think you can expect much improvement, which is indirectly shown by how well Keon and Keegan defend.
Demar Derozan doesn’t tie his shoes… coincidence?
That is a very astute observation.
Mb can talk about defense all he wants but it’s just for show. If he cared he would of played keon more than 17 minutes.
Keon has become a liability in the game. He won’t shoot. He turns the ball over. He gets caught for stupid fouls at the end of games.
Dude was like 2/4 from 3 in 17 min, what are you talking about
He took six shots, had four fouls, and a turn over in 17 minutes. He isn’t winning anything like that.
You literally said you didn’t watch the game, what a bunch of silliness from you lol
Box scores and statistics from the game. Easily found. I said a few times that is what I was looking at.
They got outscored 69-36 from the three point line. That’s the game. It’s happening almost every game and they keep losing. You just can’t have that kind of disparity and win. The Suns had this same issue last year but with more talented players so the results weren’t quite this bad. In the playoffs? They got incinerated by the Wolves. It’s team building malpractice.
I am strictly looking at box scores because I decided to skip the game. Looks like the normal events happened. What does stand out is Isaac. Time to give Issac a start. Keegan has 21 games of shit. No need to try again. Let him earn his way off of the bench. What Isaac lacks in experience he makes up for in hustle and he will score more than eight.
1-6 in the last 7. Paging Monte McNair, Klutch Sports is on the white courtesy phone wanting a word about De’Aarons likelihood of re-signing.
How bad does the record have to get before the GM and coach are held accountable?
Every defensive set in last 5 minutes: Spurs high pick and roll. Sabonis goes over, covers the point guard. Ball goes to Wemby who either scores (being guarded by someone 12 inches or more shorter) or dishes to another player who scores. Horrible defensive coaching on the part of Kings!!
This team does not recognize the rotation and think through it.
Then Domas was in no man’s land every time as well. He should of been denying the pass back out to Paul or dug all the way in. Paul left wide open for game sealing 3…and like you said they ran it 10 times over. Keon played terribly also. Instead of playing Wemby straight up he kept going for a lazy ass swipe down steal.
This has been the same story for a couple years now. It’s visible to a blind person. Other teams hunt matchups against us and we freely allow it. I never see the kings hunting matchups.
Domas has the handles to own a small forward or a guard. He always pounds into the power forward and center at the same time.
Perhaps, I am asking a dumb question, but what is the alternative with this roster?
Good question and there is not a good answer. A power forward to keep them honest in a shift at the post would be helpful.
If things keep going down this road I’d expect a fire sale at the all star break. I don’t get it, Kings are competive and just can’t get the win at the end
Monte can’t do that because he won’t survive it, we will be buyers
I’m done with passive Murray. 8 points in 38 minutes. Isaac Jones had 12 points in 19 minutes. Start him over Murray. That cheap half court 3 at the end of the first by the Spurs was the difference in the game.
Agree. He cannot do any worse.
I think the difference was Keon’s horrible turnover then foul at the end of the 3rd quarter. 4 or 5 point swing right there. Dribbled into a triple team instead of kicking out to corner for 3.
Keon is an average defender. There is no reason he should ever have the ball in his hands when the game is within ten points.
That makes him one of the best defenders on our team.
Yes. Here average is excellent.
Murray is our best defender, those 7 minutes of colby jones for no f’ing reason should of gone to keon or issac jones. Colby a minus 9 in those 7 terrible minutes
Our best defenders are well below average offensively.
Colby Jones is even further below average offensively than our best defenders
He is a mystery. Why is he here?
Colby Jones should never see the court again this year.
When they were 42-28 after one. I knew we were in trouble. To be honest I thought they would pull this out. Albeit ugly. With Hou on deck Tue. This team just has so many issues. Sure 3 20 plus scorers. But bb Iq, coaching, mentally weak. All components of this slide. The regression of Murray and continued descent of Huerter. Team is in major trouble.
Domas picks up so many stupid fouls. A coaching change needs to happen. Brown obviously isn’t getting through to the team and he makes zero adjustments. Look at what Ime Udoka has done for the Rockets. JJ for the Lakers. Kerr for Warriors, when everyone thought they would regress this year. Jordi for Nets. Mark of good coaching. I’m done with Brown. Then if Murray still struggles afterwards, then him too.
He is not a good coach, jordi did so much for him
How did Huerter descend tonight?
I skipped the game.
You have been one of the first to recognize how this team is fatally flawed, and like most prophets got attacked for your insight.
I can’t figure out how starting the game with a 14 point lead is a sign of trouble.
Is it too much or too little? Was it because it was their highest quarter point total of the season? That’s bad, right?
Please understand, that like Oshima9 states, you are a prophet, and I am not attacking your insight, but hope to garner even a droplet of clarity in this quagmire of despair. Please shine more light on this dark cloud which shadows these Kings.
I humbly await…
I say 42-28. Why? Because I know they would take their foot off the gas beginning of second qtr. which they did . Let the Spurs hang around mostly within 5 pts the entire qtr. No killer instinct. Just the lackadaisical effort of being too comfortable. Believing their core 3 will shoot them out of any issue. A team that very rarely has the capacity to pour it on and keep that foot firmly on the gas. This is less a team and more 3 highly talented scorers. None of them will ever be confused for being 1A in a contender In defense. Not completely their fault. When you have such a weak supporting cast, other than Monk. How much winning can you expect?
So, it was too much. Maybe just a 30ish scoring output in the 1st Q would have better prepared them for the fight ahead.
That is uncanny, as that is exactly as it played out.
Sage-worthy stuff.
I have no stats on this just my observations but how many times do the Kings get up by 14 or 17 points and now bury the other team or how many times do the Kings get up by 14 or 17 points and now lose the game?
The stat of the game:
69-60
That’s the second half of the game.
All of the other stats are close (excepting 23 made 3 pointers on 50% 3FG% – but that didn’t overtake the score).
Not enough stops. Yes, there were many missed 2 foot bunnies, but that happened on both sides. Yes, the little things – like allowing a 3 pointer at the halftime buzzer.
Like Keon Ellis missing a layup, then fouling for 2 FTs, then another turnover. Awful 6 seconds.
But allowing a 34 point 3rd and 35 point 4th while only scoring 60 lost them the game, IMO.
At least this one was close.
Next.
Close is only good at horseshoes and hand grenades.
give this team a chance to figure it out.
No.
They have had 21.
1 with the new starting 5. I thought you’d be more optimistic about that.
We need more new starters. It was good to see Monk where he belongs finally. Unfortunately the problems with defense persist. Starting Monk likely ensures we score 120 plus. If we can hold an opponent below 115 we will be fine.
We’re a quarter of the way through the season. That ship has sailed.
it’s called adversity.
This franchise has a fantastic track record of dealing with adversity so we should be fine.
The pattern repeats.
In defense of the point you’re making, if this team had shot 3 pointers at around league average for most of these games, we’d probably be looking at a much better record. If they’d been even half-way competent at defending the 3, the record might actually look pretty solid. Unfortunately those IFs never materialized and we have a pretty large sample size (this season, this preseason, even last season) to indicate they never will.
You speak as if this a newly assembled roster. The core has been together a few years now. Well defined floor and celing with this roster. Hope is not a strategy.
How much of a chance do you want. 25% of the year is already gone and they still haven’t figured it out.
Kings now have 1 win in their last 7 games (and that took Super Fox and Super Monk to get that win) and went 7-9 in the month of November. They next host Houston before back to backs on the road at Memphis then San Antonio, before getting a “reprieve” at home vs Utah a week from today.
If they don’t correct things fast, they could easily lose 9 of 10. That’s very hard to come back from to make a playoff run.
In all seriousness, in this current Western Conference, the season could be basically over before Christmas unless they flip some kind of switch to correct things.
In your opinion what should they do. I know you aren’t Mike Brown. Heaven forbid but I do respect your opinion.
I don’t even know, Jack. Monte has made his bed and now has to lay in it. Apart from firing Brown or trading Fox and/or Sabonis, there is little he can do at this point to make an impact.
Do you think Murray has any trade value?
The most 41-41 team you’ll ever see. Not looking good at all for this org or this roster
Such an optimist
Fox plays 36 minutes and has one foul. He is not trying to stop anyone.
Only saw highlights but if you can’t beat Spurs when ur desperate and somewhat healthy that’s big trouble. Nothing is going to change fast that is not the MO of anyone in this organization. Keegan needs to go to a psychologist or something and maybe get productive again, I have no hope for Huerter. I think Brown will definitely finish the year and probably wouldn’t get fired until sometime into next year.
I will withhold my final judgements on team, coach, GM for this year until at least All-Star break. If it looks like this recent stretch then I’m open to any and all changes. At some point though you have to sit back and just see what happens rather than freaking out over every loss.
Monte knows his job is on the line if the season stays this way (it should be mb imo) so he won’t play hardball for trades. I expect a push real soon of huerter for kuzma and 2 firsts. He won’t worry about the future with how the team is going right now.
Washington will laugh. Huerter is worth nothing Be clear nothing. He’s been relegated to being a spot shooter
who can’t shoot. He can’t defend and the Wizards are going to take on 17 mil for that.
In addition. What’s more laughable is you want a known defensive sieve who can no longer shoot either.
You want a guy that is ranked close to dead last in def efficiency. Shoots 27 percent from 3, and averages 15 ppg
Tell me again how Kyle Kuzma improves this team. Based on what metrics?
You’re also going to give up an extremely valuable pick in one of the best drafts of the past 20 years.
Monte will quickly start caring about the now…all gms do
Huerter is just salary, they want picks.
kuz is down this year for sure but thw wiz are a dumpster fire.
not saying he is my choice but it’s an easy target and monte will feel the oressure and won’t play hardball like normally.
Kuzma IMO won’t help the Kings. He would do just the opposite.
Worst thing MM could do right now is overpay for a perceived win now move.
Better off going the opp direction selling off assets. But it takes stones to do that.
I’m not talking what he should do, he won’t survive a rebuild, he is in a must win situation so he will now be an aggressive buyer unlike his normal style imo
Live by the 2 die by the 3.
And defense. We die by the defense.
How you try to play a switch-heavy scheme with this roster and the knowledge that opponents hunt mismatches is beyond me.
People laughed at me when I talked about the COTY curse at the time. Since winning the award, Brown has been hovering between mediocre to bad.
Brown hasn’t been good but by the same token, they haven’t been able to defend the three in about 20 years. The roster is not built to play winning basketball in 2024. They weren’t good at defending the three in 22/23 either but they made as many as they gave up so they could compete. Now they can’t make any threes or defend the three. And the results are… this.
So the solution is to switch a big onto a guard and a guard onto a 7 footer?
No but if they had more defensive options, maybe the scheme would be different? I think they’re sort of screwed either way because they don’t have the defensive talent on the roster to defend competently for 48 minutes at a time. I’d prefer they run teams off the line a lot more than they are doing right now but I also don’t think that would magically solve all the defensive issues.
What you are saying is basically the whole box of wax.
Not just a COTY curse, but apparently a GMTY curse too?
The OG Beam Team shine has completely worn off.
Looks like we had a window to really ascend and establish the team as a perennial playoff team and totally blew it.
Yes I’m being a big downer right now but I think it’s pretty close to the truth.
West is an absolute bloodbath. HOU, MEM, SA, LA, hell even GSW all got better.
Monte brings in DeMar because he’s too scared to work a trade for Lauri. Doesn’t address the issues with the team’s lack of depth, lack of shooting, lack of defense, and lack of athleticism.
And this is what you get.
Monte’s seat should be pretty dang hot right now. He’s the architect of the team. And for two seasons in a row now he’s sat back and watched the rest of the Western Conference load up on talent and pass the Kings by.
Coaching a BIG issue imo
They both should be accountable. Not just one.
Last year I mentioned this team had looked to be going way of ATL from a few years back. 1 good playoff year and then back into the shit.
And that looks like what’s happening.
The whole thing is disconcerting and counterintuitive. Shitty 3 point shooters who can’t defend. A coach who plays systems that don’t utilize his talent /use the talents they have. Etc etc
And Vivek is lurking-casting a losing shadow over it all.
I called them the west coast Bulls last year and that feels right. Sabonis is Vuc, Fox is Lavine, Keegan is Patrick Williams, Monk is Coby White and reprising his role as Demar DeRozan is Demar DeRozan! Obviously it’s not perfect but it’s definitely in the ballpark. Those Bulls teams got cooked from 3 too.
It’s all very disconcerting. The drama, rumors, disconnect is all going to start and boil over. All over again. Trade rumors, coaching rumors, GM in the hot seat.
I was not a big proponent of Demar coming in. I felt it kept Keegan from being that guy. So. Far. Right about that one.
The team has no mental discipline, bb iq is low across the entire squad, don’t play with purpose or identity whatsoever.
It seems the only game plan objective is to get your 3 core players going offensively and the rest will take care of itself.
The attitudes in the majority of the players are apathetic and this has been apparent all season long.
What is this team? Even with Demar, I didn’t expect this team to be any better than 6th if everything went perfect but more likely a play in.
I Was not expecting a team this bad. Not even close
Demar has no effect on KM.
Murray is just not the guy we thought he would be.
another in the long list of Kings draft picks
I personally think Derozan has had an effect on Murray and not a good one.
PS If you keep Derozan say for 2 maybe 3 years then IMO Monty should trade Murray now and get something for him and let him flourish on another team. He deserves this because IMO as long as Derozan is here Murray will stay the same as he is now.
Play-in? What play-in?
I’m honestly ok with this team tanking or just sucking and keeping their draft pick this year. That’s probably the best outcome as of now if this draft is as deep as I’ve heard it is
Somehow I just feel Vivek is at fault here. I can’t draw a straight line to him at the moment, though. He did what I thought was a decent search for a GM (Monte) and let that GM choose his coach (Brown), and from what I can tell the GM and coach effed things up after a brief but hopeful run 2 years ago. Why do I want to blame Vivek so much?
Bad organizations usually don’t get that way by accident. I absolutely blame Vivek for most of the issues with this franchise. I think he’s a bad owner. I’ve thought he’s a bad owner from the jump. Getting lucky one time doesn’t change the fact that his tenure has been a colossal failure.
Vivek’s history has been pretty bad but I thought (and still think, for the most part) that he at least stopped with the meddling once he brought in Monte. I’m wondering if this is just an unfortunate case of the organization being run poorly by others (Monte and Brown) once Vivek finally decided to let basketball minds run the show. Now that Monte and Brown seem to be screwing up I’m really afraid that we might be dependent on Vivek to fix up the front office.
The blame for this current failure may be on others but Vivek is the one hiring these people. Ultimately the buck stops with him either way.
My guess is that Vivek is impatient and refuses to do even a soft rebuild, let alone a full one. Trading Hali was a huge move, but it was done with the mindset of winning now and building around Fox. I assume that if it were up to Monte, a full rebuild would’ve occurred and they would’ve kept Hali and Fox and just continued to tank for high picks.
Vivek gets mad when we lose, even though he is the one who hired Vlade
Few items.
This team is boring. I don’t even tune into games anymore because they are just not fun to even watch play.
We’ve seen bad teams be fun to watch, this isn’t them, and thats a problem.
Also, this team sucks, and sucks really hard. The crazy part is that outside of Murray most of the individual starters is playing pretty good, but the TEAM sucks.
lastly, it’s time to trade KM, i really wish they had shipped him off during the offseason while his value was at an all time high. now we’ll get pennies on the dollar, but KM has got to go.
In fact.. i’d be fine with shipping of Fox, KM, and Malik at this point. Keep Domas and Demar and rebuild for the future.
This team is cooked.
At 35 Derozan is not your future. What are you thinking? He will only be here another 2 or maybe e years.
PS if you really want to hamper this team then just pay Fox his supermax and leave it at that. I hate to say this because I really like Fox and what he has done for this team over the years but basketball is a business. Trade Fox before you pay his supermax. You aren’t tanking because you can get a really good return. After you pay Fox his supermax he won’t be tradeable and you have lost all leverage you might have to say improve the bench or you probably will get at least one more pick in the draft along with at least 2 good players in return. There are teams out there that could use and really want a player like Fox.
My question is does trading Fox before he signs a supermax mean the new team can’t offer him one, thus, doing Fox dirty in a way?
Hopefully the sh!t show continues. It’s all comical at this point.
That pick swap with the Spurs is already starting look concerning. I was laughed at for even daring to bring it up after the DDR trade. Shortsightedness in trades is how franchises get ruined for years (see the Vlade Philly trade).
So MM traded a protected first for KH who sucks. A pick swap for a player pushing 40 and with a team that in five years will have one of the best two players in the nba playing for the best run org in the NBA.
McGenius?
Well, guess I can save money and not go to a game this year lol. Thanks for making the decision much easier, Kangz
Never like Wemby, and after this game, I hate him more.
He flops, and is a jackass……especially from the last play…..grabbing Sabonis with both hands…
Find somebody to send him to the Eastern conference……just don’t wanna see him for fourth times in a season.
I personally like Wemby. He sure can shoot the 3 at least against the Kings.He has a great future with the Spurs. I wish Murray gets his confidence back and has as much as Wemby does.I hate to say this but I like what the whole Spurs organization has done the past 2 or 3 years. They have passed the Kings in that area and have a great future. Popovich deserves this although his health probably won’t allow it.
Old man Chris Paul beat the Kings late in the 4th.
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