This is an unserious team, and hopefully they can figure some things out over the break.
Full recap to follow.
Feb 13, 2025; New Orleans, Louisiana, USA; Sacramento Kings center Jonas Valanciunas (17) is fouled by New Orleans Pelicans center Karlo Matkovic (17) during the first half at Smoothie King Center. Mandatory Credit: Stephen Lew-Imagn Images
The Kings Herald Newsletter
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Zach LaVine: 32 points, -10
CJ McCollum: 43 points, +8
In a loss to a now 13-42 Pelicans team missing several starters is the most quintessential Zach LaVine line possible.
Welcome to the new normal.
Tankathon has Liam McNeely available to us if we dropping like we should. I’d be good with that.
I want to get greedy. If we keep losing, let’s Capture the Flagg!
Derozan was 5-16 for 20 points, and luckily he was 9-9 from the FT line. He lost the game down the stretch with his ISO ball.
Keegan was doing well on CJ, and they need Keon in there to double and force some turnovers. It was a bad coaching job tonight.
Yeah, lots of reasons we lost. I am being a bit snarky. This certainly isn’t all on Lavine.
But this does epitomize my concerns with him (other than his nicer passing tonight). He can score, but we have plenty of scorers. Every shot he takes comes at the expense of Monk, DDR, Keegan, or Sabonis. Now that’s not terrible, I mean lots of teams with loaded offenses have that issue and will rotate the high scorer every night.
However, scoring, hasn’t been our issue. We are 8th in the league in offensive rating and 19th in defensive rating. We need more defenders and versatile players and LaVine really doesn’t fit that.
Again, I maybe getting too harsh on LaVine specifically, we could jettison other players for more strong, switchable defenders and LaVine’s value could increase. But given his salary and lack of trade value, he just wasn’t a great return for Fox.
If we had figured out we were not signing him to a supermax sooner, we probably could have gotten the Murray package from the Pelicans. Daniels and picks would have been so much better for our core.
Demar >>> bigger problem than Lavine short term and longterm, anyone can see lavine fitting in, demar does not.
Truth is, would be great if both are traded. Neither fits or fills a need.
Kings needed/need someone like OG or a young Portis or Bridges.
Lavine absolutely fills a need if demar is traded, athletic scorer that can shoot from range.
he fits into a team offense and defense concept just fine. We need a real pg so monk can go back to his role as 6th man.
100% disagree. If you are looking for full on chuckers then yes, Lavine fits. Derozen has won so many games for us this year when no one else could step up. He didn’t tonight, but he IS the most clutch player/shooter in the NBA.
Lavine???
Full on chucker? He is having a historic season for efficiency, one only ‘15 curry has matched
You know that Lavine is a more efficient scorer than Fox, right?
In the last 5 seasons, he has had 4 seasons of a TS% of higer than .600. In the last 5 sesons, Fox only was close to that once (.599 in the 22/23 season).
DDR has only had a TS% over .600 once, six seasons ago…
There are plenty of arguments to make about LaVine. But calling him a chucker is really not one of them.
Question: What is the point in bringing up Fox in this conversation, when no one else was and we are discussing DDR and LaVine?
Also, if you are going to discuss their merits, disregarding the defensive side of the equation between Fox and LaVine (readily apparent since the trade) completely ignores the largest point.
Well, because Fox is the guy he replaced in the lineup? So it creates context.
And I explicitly wrote that there are plenty of arguments to make about Lavine, and defense is certainly one of them. But this specific discussion was about him being perceived as a chucker.
We haven’t given Lavine enough time to really evaluate if he fits or not. Not only can he score but had 8 assists last night. He is much younger than Derozan and in his prime. Derozan yes is a good finisher but for how long?
His age has a lot to do with it.
Sort of. I think you can definitely make the case for LaVine offensively at this stage in their careers, but DDR is still better defensively.
However, we also have to consider the price tag. DDR is making between $23-$26M through the end of his contract. LaVine is making $45-$49M. That is a huge salary for someone to be a solid starter.
Given DDR’s age and the ease of salary matching, he’s probably a better candidate both for us to trade (before his age really catches up with him).
Agree on concerns
McNair has assembled talent/assets-(maybe) but they don’t fit.
If he (v wreck) know this and move 1 or 2 of Levine/DDR/Monk and go about balancing the roster then I see a path to a real team/that they are building toward contending.
If not, more likely, Kings are going nowhere for a long time.
if not, just another in long line of bad moves
Yeah, I hope for roster balance and hopefully Monte can get it done.
It’s just going to be challenging as I am not sure how much trade value a lot of our pieces have. LaVine’s trade value is obviously pretty low as the Bulls tried to trade him for awhile. He’s a solid player, but not a lot of teams are wanting to shell out $47M and $49M the next two seasons for him, especially as he enters his 30s.
DDR will be 36 by the time next season starts. He’s having a nice year and his salary is reasonable for his production. But am curious what specifically a contender would giveup to get him.
We could certainly put better fitting pieces around a core of DDR, LaVine, and Sabonis by trading our younger players and picks, but that seems like it would severely cap our upside and wouldn’t be the smartest move.
I think it will be challenging. And the most likely move is swapping one of our flawed players for another team’s flawed players and hoping the pieces fit slightly better.
We only have ISO ball.
In most instances I hate Iso ball. Basketball is a team game. Run it that way.
This. Not having Keon in the game at the end of the 4th and OT was a major brain fart by Doug.
Boy do I agree with that.
Yep, no ball movement at the end of the 4th and generally poor team defense throughout the game.
I like Matt George have real concerns about this King’s team. Other than Ellis and Murray nobody else plays defense. To have a short handed team beat you scoring 140 points is terrible. Doug blew it last night. Not playing Keon Eliis in the fourth and overtime was just an absolute terrible decision. CJ was having one of those games and we have one out of two of our best defenders riding the best. Just horrible. Lastly Derosan is a great closer but just didn’t have it last night but we just going to him everytime down the court. All iso ball after iso ball. In overtime he missed every shot like 5 or 6 in a role. Enough said. Defense WHAT DEFENSE? I just don’t think they are good enough especially on the defensive end to get in the playoffs, maybe the play-in. Their schedule for the next 30 games are brutal. It is what it is.
Picking him and not demar is laughable
Lavine’s defense is a sad sad joke. Ownership booked the “talent”. Kings are the punchline once again.
I’m too lazy to start searching, but let’s not act as if we didn’t have several such statlines with Fox, and that’s not even addressing the fallacy of ascribing value to individual game plus/minus numbers.
This loss is on Christie, IMO. He let the offense come to a screetching halt late in the 4th and OT, relying on a DDR who wasn’t feeling it tonight to ISO us out of the game. And keeping Keon’s minutes under 30 again,in a OT game.
And if we are addressing defense (and we should!), then DDR is also the bigger problem than Lavine, IMO.
Under 30 isn’t accurately describing the Keon situation. He played 22 minutes. 22 MINUTES!!! In a game where Demar played 43. 36 year old on a b2b. It’s the most aggravating thing to see. When Keon gets praise from the coach in post-game, I know the next game he is bound to play less minutes. Happened with both Brown and Christie.
To be clear, I am not blaming LaVine for this game versus more of a macro point that this is pretty typical and backed up by longer term stats as well (as I agree, single game +/- is funky).
Overall, he’s a solid player on a horrific contract who I don’t think is a great fit with this team.
Though, I’d take DDR’s defense over LaVine’s pretty easily. DDR isn’t great there and is far from a stopper, but he is certainly better and more switchable than LaVine. And while advanced metrics are all imperfect, they all pretty much back that up.
The fact that CJ wasn’t flattened out at least twice tonight is very disappointing. Somebody has to be willing to lay a hard foul on a dirty player like CJ.
This!
Run him into a JV screen, make it a moving screen and lay his ass out, even if a foul is drawn.
CJ kings killer Mccollum out with a grudge against the Kings all the time.
And I guess this team lives and dies with Derozan in clutch situations.
Mavs, Warriors, and Wolves win which is probably the worst case scenario that couldve happened today.
It sucks that we always lose to the worst teams, man. 20 freaking years of this bull.
Just 20?
Yup, live by the DeRozan, die by the DeRozan. Iso ball on a few possessions for him down the stretch, but the degree of difficulty on his shots was higher than normal. And he missed open 3’s in overtime. I don’t see why we have to suddenly stop having a dynamic offense when there’s less than 2 minutes in a game.
The Pelicans knew exactly what Doug was going to do with Derozan so they played accordingly. That’s why his shots were so hard. You had Lavine and Domas especially to go to and Monk can drive and get fouls. This is called team ball. Much better than iso ball.
Maybe it might be a plus after all. Our schedule in the next 30 games we play top teams more than bottom teams therefore we should win more games.
Demar needs to be traded in the offseason. Not what the team needs. Older, ISO scorer, no defense. Sure he has games here and there where he dominates, but the team needs to build a more defensive identity.
Christie needed to pull him for Keon down the stretch but he didn’t. Major error by coach that probably cost them the game.
Our 5 starters all scored in double figure. In a perfect world that almost always results in a win.
But oh, look, Hawkins with 16, Robinson-Earl with 16. End of the bench guys end up with contract extensions when they play against us.
The Defense tonight was awful.
And usually is.
keep DeMar
Would MUCH rather keep Demar than LaVine. But Demar’s contract is much easier to move, unfortunately.
Eww, no chance that is the right call. Lavine can play in a system on both sides of the ball, demar cannot on either side
Lavine is in is prime Derozan is not.
Yes now but not in 2 years.
Serious question: Why?
Small sample size, but in the previous 5 games where both LaVine and Derozen played, Derozen stats were better than Lavines (offensively and defensively) on almost every category. Have you seen Lavine handle the ball? I cringe every time he dribbles the ball up the court.
I said it a couple games ago, LaVine is not a good passer. He had some nice ones, but then on a two-v-one he dumps it into Sabonis’ feet and advantage gone, can’t remember if it was a turnover.
IMO this has to do with working together with time and working with coaches to solve this. Also remember Sabonis doesn’t handle passes well unless they are almost perfect.
Derozan has played a lot longer than Lavine on this team. He needs a little more time to work with the team. Last night he showed what he can do.
Hi Adamsite. just seeing your question now. Why keep DeRozan you ask? Because he’s a bucket getter. 22 points on 16.5 shots this year. 3.7 assists to 1.4 turnovers. We were all drooling over his 42 point game on 22 shots for the W two nights ago and because he didn’t repeat that performance on the second night of a back-to-back when CJ went off, we’re going to overreact? Even Steph Curry has bad shooting nights.
Reason #2: he’s a big free agency signing for the Kings. The Kings normally do not sign players of his level. so the Kings get a guy like DeMar and he continues getting buckets and the Kings are winning more than losing in a strange year when the coach gets fired and Fox gets traded, both occurring mid-season, and then in the moment of frustration watching the Kings lose a game, maybe after a few beers, someone wants to kick him to the curb?? good luck signing another player of his calibre if you do that.
Reason #3: the players want to be competitive and win. DeMar helps with that on most nights.
I don’t think it’s an over reaction. He has been an issue most of the season with the spacing and defense, plus he has the easier contract to move.
Sure, he has gone out and some great games and been clutch down the stretch, but how would those games have looked if his defense wasn’t really bad leading in to those games late.
The roster imbalance was exacerbated by his addition.
Are we a better team now with LaVine??? Talking about exacerbating roster imbalance…it is more than clear to everyone who has now exacerbated that.
Now, I get it. Lavine is a tougher contract to move. So we may be stuck with what we got.
Let’s just all agree that there are 5 guys who are all really good basketball players with their individual skill sets. THESE 5 just do not work together. And a little extra practice is t going to change that.
Are they better with Lavine? Time will tell. Would they be better by moving Demar for a stretch 3&D big that is lower usage, which allows Keegan to play the 3? Probably.
My hair brained idea after the game last night was DDR + Carter and picks for Jaden McDaniels (the one in Minnesota). Wolves are in cap hell and the ownership group wants to cut long term salary.
If Monte could swing this I would take it.
In my honest opinion, Eddie, DDR both as a player and a contract is just a placeholder. He’ll be 36 by the start of next season and will be going into his final guaranteed year. There is a reason Monte got that 3rd year as unguaranteed. He’s trade fodder. His contract may have more value than his play. Peak Demar right now, as your favorite scoring option in the clutch, gets you to around .500 basketball and sniffing the play-in. So the “players want to be competitive and win. DeMar helps with that most nights” is a stretch at this point.
I truly believe he was never the intended target by Monte last season. His game never really fit with Fox and Sabonis and he wasn’t even signed until a week into free agency. Monte had a few swings and misses early in free agency and DDR was the backup to the backup plan, sort of a “I have to do something” move.
DDR was never intended to be a long term plan. His offense is dated and defense is bad. Monte may find value in him this summer or by the deadline, so to consider him a keeper is a bit ridiculous.
$10m guaranteed on the 3rd year of DDR contract. It’s a contract that is movable to those teams that have a short window to compete and want off Ling term money.
You have Derozan for the rest of this year. IMO I would try to trade him this summer for a player that plays better defense but also can have a decent offense. Why? Because Derozan is past his prime. If you keep him for the next 2 years he will probably get you something of less value because of his age and contract.
For how long? One or two years and now you get nothing.
Keon with 23 minutes in an overtime game!
&ct=g
terrible
I will keep going back to the simple stats. When the Kings play Keon 30+ minutes, they win the bast majority of their games. For the life of me I can’t figure out why much better basketball minds who are paid to do basketball minding can’t figure this out.
CJ rattled Keon’s emotions, making him do bad decisions defensively. I’m trying to play devil’s advocate here, but CJ didn’t beat us in the 4th. Robinson-Earl scored 13 pts (!) in the 4th to CJ’s 5 pts. The defense was so atrocious that an end of the bench guy looked like an All-Star.
yes we are talking about practice … during the All Star break
This version of the Kings is quite hard to watch. I think I’ll invest my time on the pickleball courts in the evenings lol
Let’s see how they come out after the break. a lot of new players out there.
100% true and hope they come out better. But we also say that like we are the only team going through that.
Pelicans are now a 13-42 team who played without Murray, Zion, and Herb Jones.
They were also working a lot of new players into their lineup including Missi, Antonio Reeves, Bruce Brown, Matkovic, etc.
Completely and utterly disagree. The kings are a bunch of players thrown together. Literally. Sabonis Demar and Lavine were not drafted by this team and all of them are in the twilight of their careers. Demar will be 36 and Lavine will be 30 next season. So will Sabonis.
You could say the Clippers are a similar case study. Except you have one of the best coaches in the league in Lu. And real team leaders with Harden and Kawhi.
The Pels are far more home grown and the majority of their talent was drafted.
If the Pels didn’t have this deluge of injuries they would have continued to destroy the Kings. Keegan is a non factor. Sorry to say it. Man is a role player on any contending team not a starter.
Keon is a find and he can possibly be a building block. But that’s it.
Back to the Pels: Zion is annoying. The man certainly has Top 5 talent and no discipline. Watching him play healthy is just flat out amazing basketball though. Most unstoppable force in the NBa outside of Jokic.
This Kings team isn’t contending for nothing.
I also wouldn’t put it past Vivek to extend Lavine in the offseason.
Trying to trade Demar in the offseason for another deck chair seems to be very likely.
Watch.
I really disagree respectively on Keegan Murray. What he does for this team doesn’t show up on the stat sheet. He does what is asked of him and does t well. I would keep him.
Hopefully really shitty so they get their draft pick.
No way this team is going anywhere. Just get your assets, trade DDR and Levine if you can and actually act like you’re trying to win. Really win.
trade deadline has passed. players want to win. coach wants to win. I’m rooting for them.
Loss is on DC.
There wasn’t a good reason before.
But, there is absolutely no reason Keon shouldn’t be in with 3 minutes to go when the offense is only to ISO demar
I said on Twitter, I understand where this team is now, but over the break they will need to make a choice. Are they a team where:
1) Players insist on their exact role and minutes or there are chemistry issues
2) Are they a team where they let their coach tweak the rotation and closers based on the matchup to maximize wins
Both happen in the NBA. And we have a lot of vets who sort of have the right to demand their role and clarity and chase money. But teams that are serious about competing for a title tend to have secure players and confident coaches who gravitate towards the latter.
For Kings fans, think of our 2002 team. We had our core starters, but sometimes BJax or Hedo closed instead of Christie, Bibby, Peja, or Vlade. And both were happy to come off the bench and just wanted to win.
We need that. But we have not shown that so far
Why is this in question? It’s nearly literally the head coaches only job. What’s the point in having a coach if egos dictate minutes and timing of individual games and moments, despite whats happening on the court. Fucking celebrity bullshit. Everyone just out for themselves. Wonderful good ol’ USA. Puke.
“Team? Winning? Dgaf. I’m a HoF loser!” LOL.
Everyone is an a-hole and they are all to blame in this decades-long failure. No one on the kings deserves minutes, past scoring be damned. Prove it on the court or be told to sit down.
This is the major downside to chasing veterans, rather than good young players. You’re stuck with what you got and can’t dig yourself out without ruffling (extremely sensitive) feathers (which an insecure small market, just trying to prove they belong at the table, will never do). Nothing will ever change with this franchise. Rinky fucking dink.
Clippers have a similar model But Lu is one hell of a coach.
He is but if you are grading Christie for this short period of time and coaching from what he has you are doing him a diservice. I personally think Doug is doing a great job working with what he has to work with.
I think this is a bit of an over simplification. It’s not just “must play vets because egos”.
This is a team constructed by McNair, Wilcox, Vivek, etc. who have made significant investments in Lavine, Demar, etc. not just in terms of salary but moves and assets given up for them. For Christie to potentially go rouge and not play the FO’s top guys would be rowing in the opposite direction, indirectly insuting/insubordinate, jeopardize his job, and cause even more FO chaos (remember when Malone refused to play PDA’s aquisitions and the feud boiled over?).
That said, I don’t think it’s beyond Doug’s purview to find a way to play Keon in crunch time. Tweaks can certainly be made, and I wish they would. But my point is, the problem is not just player ego. It’s the front office/ownership’s roster construction. They invested heavily on a bunch of veterans who can no longer crack an all-star team. That’s the plan. This is what we got.
I don’t disagree with you. Ownership/Monte went and got vets. For worse or for worse.
Coaching has trouble sitting them, even if they aren’t playing defense and there are better but lesser known players waiting. Players may not be whining to the media and showcasing their egos… but they aren’t getting benched when they stink either.
Perhaps it’s a lack of creativity, but it feels more like dancing around egos so they don’t blow the whole thing up. Either way, it’s not helping to keep the other team from putting the round ball into the orange circle.
I’m not gonna wholly disagree with that either. I’ll just add, it’s not just player egos at stake. It’s McNair’s and, the biggest one in the room, Vivek’s. I don’t think think his ego will survive having his prized acquisitions summarily benched.
tldr: gotta play the boss’ fave player.
This, and it’s so painfully obvious at this point.
Ah, okay.
Can we just rip the bandaid off, tank, keep our top 12 protected pick, trade everyone and start over? Again?
While we’re screwed because of the thought that this team can be a contender this season, I hope the rest of this season shows Vivek, etc that these are NOT the players to make this team a contender. They’re all good players but Lavine and DeRozan aren’t going to do it. The crossroads this off-season is move those guys for players who can move this team forward (which would be really hard to do) or sell everyone with value and rebuild. But you and I both know they’ll stand pat because “this team will be great next year with a full off-season!”
looking forward to seeing improvements after the all star break.
Until you see 20 of the 24 games to end the season are against playoff teams.
Look at the schedule in March and tell me they are not cooked.’
I look at your comment and see a losing attitude.
If only our attitude had any effect on how the team played.
Has nothing to do with lavine, kangs been doing this for years.
Supposed to be reply to first comment
No worries. I mean, I agree, it’s not all on him. But highlights where another scorer with no defense on a huge contract isn’t the best asset for us.
Fox or Lavine. Same outcome.
Derozan plays ISO ball or ISO Fox. Same outcome.
This roster now has some balance because we have a back up center. That is very helpful. It does not change the fact that the core three or four players do not play defense. That issue is the same as it has been for many years now.
Not even mad. This game just shows plainly what this team is – a middling ~0.500 team that likely wouldn’t make it out of the play-in, much less the first round of the playoffs. Much more important to protect our pick at this point.
Can’t take an organization seriously that does not take itself seeiously.
Very true. Even if we keep our pick I fear we’ll waste it. I’m looking for glimmers of hope for the future. Not seeing them yet.
Agreed!
Also, I hope the typo was on purpose.
Not every play has to be iso in clutch time. Stick to the basics! I have not seen Monk and Domas pick n roll for a while now. Or a Domas to Keegan/Monk DHO.
I noticed the same thing today with Domas and Malik. Where did the PnR go?
I implore everyone to go back and watch the final few minutes of regulation. It was the same shit over and over again of giving the ball to DDR on the left side for an ISO back to the basket play.
This is the worst kind of offense. FWIW, I lost a lot of respect for Christie in the coaching down the stretch. If this is gong to be the offense for the foreseeable future, we might as well be looking to the offseason because it’s over.
The Christie live fest has diminished somewhat
I guess the hope is, after a few practices, a little diff approach but doubt it.
They should be running high post Sabonis O. Ala Denver. Cut. Pass.
Id like to see Christie at least heading in that direction since you know he’s the coach for the next decade.
Looking at the box score, I’m confused. I’m certain I was told the bench got deeper.
Deeper in SOMEthing.
Your Sacra-MEH-nto Kings!
Sacra meant D’oh!
Welcome (back) to basketball hell!
so what does everyone think of how the two bigs were utilized tonight? Brought both of them towards half court to screen for the ball handler Monk on both sides – the same play they used to do with Fox in a small-ball lineup.
Wow, lots of vitriol tonight. This is a .500ish team, which means we win 2, we lose 2, we beat teams we shouldn’t, we lose to teams we should, and so on.
In terms of expectations:
We didn’t play any defense, and thus a 12 win team hung 140 on us. Look at this roster and the distribution of minutes: if you build an undersized roster full of bad defenders, they will tend to play poor defense.
Doug coached a bad game, pressed all the wrong buttons. Expect games like this from a new coach. Although again, if you build a roster where the top scoring options are ball-pounding ISO players, you will have losses like this. It’s not surprising that Keon didn’t get enough minutes, and DeMar got too many. This organization likes showhorses and doesn’t reward workhorses.
For the love of my sanity Kings, please stop complaining to the refs. I would love to see the NBA really crack down on this and start giving techs liberally. It would take a week to turn the tide.
I have a feeling that Keon and Keegan will never progress the way they should in Sacramento with Zach and DDR in town. Keon and Keegan’s natural positions are 2 and 3. Depressing
Well that was disappointing, but not unexpected.
Struggling to understand how a defense minded coach can get a team to play good defense when he keeps giving lots of minutes to players without any accountability.
Let me ask all of you a question, because in my game-time text exchange it was noted how negative I am about this team. GASP, I know.
dribble-dribble-dribble-dribble-ISO-(hopefully)putback
I’m envious of other teams and their ball movement. Is this feeling going to last the rest of the season? Are they doomed to look this way the rest of the season, considering LaVine and DeRozan’s age?
The team was moving the ball really well. At one point they had 18 assist on 19 made shots. Hell, they finished with 38 assists for the game. But the last few minutes of the 4th and OT the ball, magically, started getting stuck in the player’s hands.
Badge Legend