What a deeply unserious team. Vent away. Full recap to follow.
Dec 19, 2024; Sacramento, California, USA; Sacramento Kings guard Malik Monk (0) reacts after making a three point basket against the Los Angeles Lakers in the second quarter at the Golden 1 Center. Mandatory Credit: Cary Edmondson-Imagn Images
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Anyone else getting a quitting on the coach vibe?
There is clearly a disconnect with the coach and the players, considering how many times Mike Brown has said in post game press conferences that the players aren’t doing what they are practicing or going over. It’s like they’re trying to get him fired at this point.
What the players want versus what is needed to win are not the same thing.
I miss Harrison Barnes vibe?
I’m having a quitting on the season vibe so I get it.
2022-2023 was a fun little oasis of basketball. Welp, time to blow it up again.
I remember posting after the season in 22/23 that I really hoped this was the start of something and not the high water mark for this group because we’d be stuck in purgatory if it was. Welp, that’s appearing prescient. Sadly we’re on a one way train back to rebuild town because this current core is cooked. Their only saving grace is that if they can get a decently high pick this year, this is a loaded draft at the top.
I remember feeling so optimistic after the 2022-23 season. I truly felt we finally had some kind of core that we could build around. Turns out that one season might just simply be an outlier season.
I think they overachieved that season and set the expectation bar high. I expected an upward trajectory, but that never came.
One of the big things that propelled us that season was health, combined with some really bad injury luck to many teams in the West. NO, Minny, Lakers, Warriors, Clippers annd Suns were all riddled by injuries.
Having so few injuries was never sustainable long-term.
Another factor seems to be that this team thrives as underdog, but can’t handle the pressure of being a favorite. That would also explain the subpar home record.
Yeah, you aren’t gonna be a playoff team if you’re home record is 6-9.
My God we suck.
Posted this in the game thread –
Honestly, last year’s team was better than this year’s team. And the team the year before was better than last year. Monte has systematically made the team worse and worse each year.
Monte and Brown both.
Yeah……I’m definitely not going to be renewing my League Pass monthly subscription which comes up in a few days. I just am not feeling that this year is going to be good.
Hey Seattle, still want a basketball team?
If so, get your own! This one’s taken.
Eh, I’m listening to offers of two bags of Fritos at this point.
The current frustration is understandable but ultimately we went through the trouble of supporting this team and fighting to keep it during even the darkest times. It belongs to Sacramento, whatever the team’s win-loss fortunes happen to be each year.
The tickets better be free.99 then.
Ownership is taking advantage of the fact that we’ll support this team no matter what, so they can just keep putting out a mediocre product without consequences. I’m tired of it, personally. I’m sure Vivek appreciates you, though.
Yeah, honestly, you need to just go support some other team.
Yeah, honestly, it’s sarcasm and I’ve been a fan as long as or longer than anybody. But fuck this team and ownership and culture. And I have every right to say that.
You sold out really cheap.
Two bags of Fritos and an Arizona iced tea.
Good to see you leaving happy.
First time this season I saw the team just mail it in the last few minutes of the game. Essentially just stopped fighting. Give the ball to Fox and let Him iso for 4 min.
Well, sadly the Kings are just an average team this year. Gonna win a few against good teams. Gonna lose a few to bad teams. And are gonna split the rest.
Brown blaming the players again, in the post-game interview. Of course. The coaching staff is doing everything right, according to Brown.
Brown is nothing more than an armchair quarterback at this point. He has no feel for the pulse of the game. Letting Fox play with 4 fouls with 7 min left in the 3rd, not playing I Jones until the 4th, and no C Jones (who viewers would think had bought himself playtime just based on his performance in the previous game) are just a few examples of how he mismanages the roster. Why tf would Monte make a trade when the coach won’t give the new talent a try? Yeah Kings need more talented players on the bench, but potential talent is just being wasted at this point. Time to hand the reigns back to Doug Christie as the interim coach for the rest of the year.
The same thing that got him fired at his last job. It was a good one year relationship, but now he is back to his old way in mismanagement with peoples’ personalities
Doug is not the answer. Has no real
experience as a lead asst.
That would make this team lottery bound.
As opposed to now when they are……what?
Agreed with most of this but I think Doug is a nice guy that we have fond memories of but is not really HC material.
You know who else wasn’t “head coach material” at some point in time? Erik Spoelstra. How can you say “not head coach material” when he’s never been a head coach?
Hence I wrote: “I think”.
But you know who else wasn’t GM material at some point in time? Vlade.
And who wasn’t assistant-GM and player development manager material at some point in time? Peja?
I have little faith in these legacy hires from the golden era. IMO it’s based on goodwill and positive vibes and not on merit. YMMV.
100%. These hires were patronizing sops to the casual fan.
Agree! Bobby Jackson would make more sense than Doug. He has a lot more coaching experience.
i guess on a positive note – we’re on track to keep our 1st round pick and send 2 2nds to Atlanta instead in 2026 and 2027 for Huerter!
Always gotta look for the silver lining!
That deal really messed the kings up from making a big move
Fox scoring more than 20 and only five assists will not beat teams that play team basketball. The opponent does not even have to play good team basketball. The Kings must figure out how to play as a team. Playing hard and competing for wins is something that this organization has struggled with for two decades now.
Fox/Monk 9assists and 9 turnovers . Those two and DeRosen dibble and ISO too much . Days of great ball movement seem over .
Sabonis facilitates team basketball. He plays the game at a much higher level.
Sabonis has been playing more in the low post and not facilitating this year, probably due to DeRozan.
He can and does facilitate in the low post. It requires the team to run and offense and some half court sets. Fox does not play that style of basketball. It has nothing to do with Demar. Demar would prefer to play in a half court set as well.
It does have to do with Demar. You can’t feature Demar in the low post. Keegan can’t be in the low post all the time because he needs to be behind the 3 point line. So that leaves only Sabonis to occupy the low post.
Also, notice Sabonis hardly ever brings the ball up the court this year.
Demar is not in the low post. Keegan is not in the low post. Sabonis is the five and is in the low post. You are correct.
Demar should never be featured in the low post. The four does not typically play behind the three point line. Sabonis does not have to bring the ball up to facilitate an offense.
He does but for that work. Guys have to make 3’s and he needs to be agressive with his scoring.
It works. He had the high assist number tonight in a loss. If they go through him he is a team offense player. He does not need to score but he is obviously perfectly capable of doing that. He is good at moving the defense with a pass or a post move prior to a pass.
I am not saying he is the ultimate solution. I am saying he is the best team player on this team full of ISO players.
Agree, Domas is not the problem but a clear positive . One of most productive offensive players in the NBA . 62-43-82% amazing plus 100% effort every game . He is a huge reason I still love to watch games . ( mostly on mute )
Hard for fox to pass the ball and get assists from bricks. Everyone catch & shoot is so inconsistent or poor.
Fox had that lack of ball handling on full display tonight too.
If he passes we will find out if that is the case.
Kings need another player who is wired to be aggressive at the start of games and start him. Fox waits until he gets hit in the mouth before imposing his will on the game. by that time, the team is already down 10 or 20. maybe replace DeMar in the starting 5 – or Monk.
Fox did not impose his will tonight.
in most games, he has stretches when he does impose his will, but it’s normally after the team falls behind and/or a ref does not call a foul, right? also, tonight he was playing with 5 fouls.
Good to see him with five fouls. That means he was playing defense and did not foul out. The times he imposes his will are impressive but not very often.
well, the point I made was to start another player (not in place of Fox) at the wing or forward who is agressive from the tipoff, especially on defense.
A decent four with size has been a need for a few years now.
Jerry Reynolds has been saying that too. some names he’s brought up in the past as potential targets have been Bobby Portis, Brook Lopez, Naz Reid, Jalen Smith, John Collins, and Jonas Valanciunas. In the recent podcast, there was a quick mention about Isaac Jones.
It has been a need for at least two years. Harrison Barnes was good but not a four. Now we have a three playing the four again.
Keegan is both a 3 and a 4.
He is a four for the same reason Harrison Barnes was a four.
Portis and Brooke are going nowhere now. Bucks are the hottest team in the league right now. Reid is not going anywhere either. Wolves have won 6 of the last 7. In that 7 game stretch. Number one D in the NBA.
Utah will want a good young asset and at least 1 first
rounder. If Kings are not offering Ellis or Keegan. Utah will get a better deal
elsewhere. For sure.
Jonas will help
with rim protection. Not much else.
Iam sure Reynolds is a nice guy. But, Let’s be real, the modern game has passed him by. He’s like 80. That podcast would be worth listening to if it was Richmond or Artest. It’s like I am listening to Abuelo.
those name were brought up in the past. I’m not saying to go after them now. I was just sort of acknowledging Delesandro’s comment that “A decent four with size has been a need for a few years now”
Jerry Reynolds has forgotten probably 50 years more basketball than any of us ever learned.
You are absolutely right.If you haven’t then you need to read his book.
I don’t buy that age thing. I’m 81 and coached 48 years. Jerry knows what’s wrong and I think I know also. It has nothing to do with the modern game. It has a lot to do with work ethics, mental attitude, playing together, leadership, talent, culture,heart sacrifice etc. Put that in your modern game pipe.
Makes a lot of sense to most . Guess you didn’t agree that picking up Portis 3 years ago when mentioned by Jerry he was available as a FA. Also Naz Reid 2 years ago as a free agent . You aren’t actually listening are you ? Agree that he is old but seems quite sharp to many .
I totally agree with this. I would say a real 4, not a small ball 4.
At this point why not try Isaac Jones with the starters? Go Fox, Monk, Keegan, Domas, Jones. At least they will not be as undersized. DDR can score off the bench and save his legs a bit.
What is the worst that could happen, lose in an uninspiring way? He makes a bad mistake, like losing a dribble behind the back twice? Or throws a pass into the first row? Get beat off the dribble and reach foul constantly?
We saw all that last night.
Is that player on the team right now who are you talking about?
I think Domas is wired to be aggressive at the tip-off. Keegan is pretty consistent with his defense. is there another good forward or big wing currently on the roster who is wired to be aggressive at the tip-off? I’m not sure. I think there might be another guard on the roster who is wired that way but I am assuming Fox and Monk are starting there.
Fouling out doesn’t mean you are playing good defense. Rather it tells me he is getting beat and has to reach to remedy the fact. As I watched the game last night and as a defensive coach(coached offense also) he did not play good defense last night. Period!
‘Fastest player in the league’…
when he feels like it.
with who?
Just a lowly 15+ year season ticket holder (yeah I started in the lull)…they raised prices significantly last year and are now (I think) in the top ten in terms of ticket prices. The kings/ticketmaster have also changed the resell market with added fees on resales (while waiving fees for unsold tickets). They’ve thrown a shit product on the floor for home games while raising prices and neither the organization or players care. That’s the most painful thing. It was shitty when the maloofs duped season ticket holders in to a renewal when they had plans to move. This is almost as upsetting with what they are putting out on the floor.
On top of that, every season is more and more about selling advertising. It’s like we’re paying for the privilege of them advertising to us. They created a meaningless tournament just to sell more advertising. And the softness and apathy of players make it feel more like the WWE. The NBA/Kings are eroding their core competency to make another buck now, which is almost always detrimental to any organization in business. I’m just finding it difficult to put energy into caring about the Kings or NBA in general anymore.
I think everyone jumped to conclusions that the recent wins (against inferior opponents and missing star players) was due to Monk starting.
Too many guys on this team have way too much freedom with the ball. I really hate that lol feel like pick up basket ball @24hr fitness
Watching this team in 2022-2023 was amazing. Watching this team in 2023-2024 was fun, sometimes frustrating. 2024-2025 is not very fun for me personally. I know that it’s better than the complete incompetence of the playoff-less streak, but this team has no identity other than Sabonis. I love watching Sabonis, dude is worth the price of admission.
DeRozan is really bad at defense
at this point in his career
Agree with that.
Yes he is. So is Huerter, Crowder, McDermott.
the lineup of Fox, Monk, DeRozan, Keegan and Sabonis does not have enough defense in it.
I agree. So if you sub those players from above other than Ellis the bench you won’t get defense either.
with Isaac Jones, you’d get more size, length and shot contesting.
Like Isaac and his potential but he is not the answer and only a limited spot player . Maybe more than that in a few years but maybe not . Just not what is needed now .
the Kings were better with Harrison Barnes AND Davion Mitchell
I disagree. Right now Murray has taken over as PF where Barnes played and Ellis is a far better defender overall than Davion.
looks like you misinterpreted my comment.
Multiple GM’s, coaches and hundreds of players the last 11 years and one constant: Vivek Ranadive. He’s one of the worst owners in sports and it’s really hard to overcome that, especially in basketball. If your owner/s are bad, you aren’t consistently winning anything, ever. It sucks, but this won’t end until Vivek figures it out or he sells the team. Any discussions of how to fix things just feel silly and irrelevant at this point.
The GM made bad moves and created a roster that is almost comically designed to fail at basketball in 2024. The coach has not maximized the talent on the roster in any way shape or form. The players are almost all playing below expectations. Who cares. All of these things have happened multiple times in various iterations for almost two decades. Terrible ownership is the common denominator for the last two decades. Going from the Maloofs to someone who has more money (I think?) but is somehow even less competent at running a basketball organization is incredible but we rolled snake eyes twice. It sucks but maybe in another 20 years when Vivek is dead it’ll get better? I’m holding out hope that my grandkids (my kids are 2 and 4) will know what it’s like to see a Kings team contending for something other than play-in’s and ping pong balls.
Vivek seems to let Monte do his job and Monte has done it poorly.
Monte has traded 3 first round picks and hired his own coach. That has netted the Kings one first round playoff appearance in 5 seasons.
Who hired Monte? Who signs the checks? The buck stops with Vivek. If he can’t hire competent people then he’s the problem.
worst in sports? John Fisher
True. Vivek is just one of the worst. I don’t think he’s necessarily a bad guy, he’s just incompetent.
I heard he was a “dismissive little chap”.
It’s not Fisher’s fault that only 2500 fans would show up for A’s home games. Nobody seems to bring that up. I think it’s fair to blame him for trading Cespedes that year when they were the best team in baseball and headed to the World Series though.
When the team plays well, the fans show up. However, we all know that the team has about a 3 year window of being good before our favorite players are traded and the rebuild (or whatever they call it) starts. That cycle continues for…20 years now (?)
Keep the good players around and the fans will keep showing up. Put out a 60 win team, in a crap ballpark, people won’t show up.
Don’t forget Vivek is the owner that coached his daughter’s youth hoop team and won their championship by having only four girls on defense and making one stay back and cherry pick. And then he wanted the Kings to do that.
So Brown called out his players and especially Fox after last game and specifically called out Fox while giving him both praise and making demands. I have many issues with Brown, but I think he struck a good balance on that one.
And this was Fox’s reaction to that?
Mr. “Clutch” had 4 turnovers in the 4th, of which 3 were completely unforced and one was moronic. And he made the stupidest attempt at a boxout I’ve seen in years and let Christie get an offensive board. He’s a very good player. But he is simply not top tier and with Fox as your number 1 player are you winning titles? As it stands, are you even winning a first round series or getting out of the play-in?
Is it all Fox? No.
We start games in a nonchalant fashion. We are mentally soft. We are from a physicallity, length and athleticism perspective utterly unimposing. We lack focus. We whine after fouls and lose composure. We lack cohesion and chemistry. We lack leadership. We lack good coaching. We lack a clear identity.
No, wait. Our identity is that unless we are clicking on almost all cylinders (which rarely happens this season), we are very beatable and have a tendency to choke.
Blow it all up.
We need D. Green.
Only he can motivate the team……..and he can define this team’s identity.
Dubs lost by 50 last nite to Grizzlies and motivator Green poured in Zero points .
I’ve been constantly ridiculed for my position on Fox. The proof is in the pudding.
And yes, blow it up!!
SAME per Fox
If your criticism is focused on Fox why not suggest trading him instead of blowing everything up?
Once Fox is traded, where is a roster with Domas, MM, KM and DDR going?
If it’s going nowhere with or without Fox, then the natural conclusion is to blow it up.
What Peaches said and on top of that, you have too many issues to fix. Trading Fox won’t cure them all.
Also, you need to ensure that your FRP from the Huerter trade stays here in a what looks like a good, deep draft.
And you need a new coach.
Best to go nuclear, IMO.
getting rid of everyone doesn’t fix them either.
When I wrote “go nuclear”, I wasn’t very precise, admittedly. But I didn’t mean get rid of everyone.
What would you suggest to do, then?
Monk, Colby Jones for Marcus Smart.
Huerter, Lyles for Kuzma, Anthony Gill.
Let’s go Monte. Shake it up.
I have been saying this about Fox for years. He is good to very good not great. Not a best player (or maybe even a second best player) on a contender.
I was saying this when he was on a hot streak two years ago and got roasted here.
Giving him a max or supermax will be a big mistake. A big concern of mine is I don’t think his game will age well (also been saying this for years). Once he slows down I forecast a big drop off.
The stupid Kings are going to wait and trade him with low value. This organization lacks the balls to take a big risk to get better, like trading your best player when they are at their peak because you know his game has fatal flaws.
So, we got lucky that Fox did not sign that extension this summer ?
I don’t know if I would say lucky. I think what he turned down was for a much smaller contract which maybe would fit his value more. Which would have been better IMO than if he gets the supermax.
That kind of move is exactly what Petrie did with Mitch Richmond. For all of Richmond’s greatness, his career arc is looking similar to Fox’s on the Kings. Both are/were considered the best on their team, with Richmond getting even more honors. Both have/had very limited postseason success while in Sacramento. The change for the Kings then was trading all-nba and all-star Richmond for Chris Webber. Some might argue the same kind of trade may be needed for Fox in order for the Kings to break this slump.
I’ve compared Fox to Cuz, but the Rock is a fair comparison as well. The career arc for those three in Sac are very similar.
Same way Cuz’ game didn’t age well, as a commenter stated above, neither will Fox’. I hope MM has the stones to trade Fox the way he traded Hali. That was a big boy decision MM made, but he has made none since and the roster has suffered.
Actually I compare Fox to prime Beal. Even though Beal had a great deal
of success leading a sorry Wizards team to several playoff appearances.
Before Beal started getting injured every year. Fox’s value is very high right now.
Kings could get 4 Number ones and multiple young assets for Fox.
This current core is not remotely close to contending for a chip.
Vivek and Monte don’t seem to understand. Fans will absolutely embrace a rebuild.
With a lot of young talent.
I would love to see a full blow up.
OKC and Rockets style.
100%
The thing is depending on what they could get for Fox, I think this team could end up being good. There are some pieces to work with in place. I’m not sure it must be blown up.
If you trade Fox, make Monk the starting PG. He is on a good contract.
I don’t know who it would be but what if Fox brought back a legit 4, a tall 3 and D wing and a pick or two?
I think that would rebalance this roster quite a bit.
Actually, I think Reggie Theus may be the comparable, and, if so, that’s not encouraging for his trade value. If anything, Theus was a better ball handler and distributor, but both are known for being lackadaisical.
Exactly. Once that next big contract is handed to Fox, this core is set in stone and this is a core that doesn’t have a WCF or Finals ceiling, so what’s the point?
MM needs to get ahead of things and trade Fox and honestly anyone on the roster. No one should be considered untradeable on a roster that has regressed two years running.
I keep on saying Rockets. They have the young assets and multiple firsts.
Fox gets to go home.
Kings get 4 firsts and
A choice of Players like:
Sheppard,
Smith
Whitmore
Eason
Plus the thought of getting Brooks to match salary. Would absolutely love to have that Dog changing the culture here.
If Shepard, Smith and Brooks were the package plus a couple of firsts -great .
Fox’s style of play is more 1990s than 2020s, and, contrary to the local media propaganda, he’s not a great defender.
He should be traded, but I honestly don’t know where he fits. If we can see the limits in his game, surely GMs around the league do. I have no idea as to his trade value, but my best guess is that it is nowhere near what Kings management and fans think it is. I can’t see how he fits on a team where he is the 2nd or 3rd option. What is his value in a subordinate role?
A weird wrinkly to think about is that with the league’s new(ish) player participation policy, any player needs 65 games in order to qualify for end of the year awards. Fox is putting up fringe all-nba numbers and with a lot of stat players already missing a good chunk of games, he may sneak into all-nba honors and qualify for the super-max contract.
To you point, he may not be your number 1 guy on a title winning type of team, but the Kings may be pushed into a corner in paying him the super max. Personally, I don’t think he is worth that kind of deal, but Monte’s hand may get forced.
Good point. Just another reason to trade him at the deadline.
To whom, and for what? That is where I think things get a little tricky.
I would say a real 4 and if they are lucky a tall 3 and D bench wing too.
That would allow Keegan to slide back to 3. Now they aren’t so undersized. Monk is the PG. Move DDR to 2 or the bench and start Keon. Let Isaac Jones back up the new 4 and Sabonis.
I get the concept and player style, which is great for the roster (I agree with you). However, It is mainly theoretical until some actual teams/players names are included.
Most top teams have solid guard play, so adding Fox may not make sense. Other teams might not have what the Kings want, so that likely won’t work. Rebuilding teams don’t want to give up draft capital and young players for someone Fox’s age and contract status.
That’s where things start to fall apart, for me at least. Finding the right combination of team and players/picks.
I don’t bring up specific players because I am pretty ignorant to the cap rules so I don’t want to propose something that is impossible.
That is the GMs job.
The Kings is roster very unbalanced and short. They have been playing with a small ball 4 and undersized 5 for a long time now. I think you can win with the undersized 5 if you have a real 4. They have never even tried it.
Yes, they keep looking at smaller options, when the league is getting taller and lengthier. Small ball seemed like the craze 5 years ago, but now it is all about players with size. Trading for those players is harder now because good GMs know how those players are coveted now.
Yes, seems they failed to forecast the direction of the league and it seems the team concept is flawed.
Does make me wonder if they were trying too hard to be Warriors north instead of trying to build a good team. Mike Brown and Vivek are both Warriors guys…..hmmm….
Shocking like Divac, actually, but in a different way.
Fox isn’t a PG, that been conclusively shown by now.
And players on this roster that have never shown a disposition to play defense aren’t ever doing to do it.
Can a group of you poor souls going to games start a sell the team chant at home games please? The vlade sign was great idea but i think vivek needs to hear it live from the fans
Sabonis and DeRozan are so bad on defense. The offense had no flow. Huerter and Murray not contributing much as usual. And of course MB with the random ineffective rotations. I. Jones should be playing more and whoever else is hungry and wants to play defense. Lack of intensity and urgency throughout most of the game. Len and McLaughlin can defend and should be playing some. Our ‘stars’ like Fox and DeRozan need to be on bench until they start playing hard.
Sabonis is a poor rim protector but an amazing wing and trap defender for a center . Much better than Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Towns, Zubac, and others . Credit where credit is due .
I think Sabonis is passable as a defender. He just doesn’t deter or block shots that often. Also, Kings don’t have good perimeter defense, which makes his job even harder, knowing he isn’t a rim protector.
If the Kings could find PF/C guy that stretches the floor offensively, and plays the 5 defensively, things would be looking better (I don’t who that player is, or if he is available, or if the Kings have the assets to get that type of guy)
Straight up Keystone Cops offense, it’s so sad.
How the hell do you come away with only 4 offensive rebounds for the entire game? I get that the ball doesn’t always bounce your way, but that just smells like a lack of effort.
That’s one of the major reasons we lost last night. A couple of times the Lakers got 3 and sometimes 4 offensive rebounds in one play. Then they would eventually score. Hello!.I know Sabonis has a back issue but one play the ball was on the floor but instead of going after it he was swiping at it as a cat would with a ball on a string. Twice Huerter drove into the lane with an open shots but instead tried to pass the ball to Sabonis. 2 turnovers. Keegan Murray is at the head of the key a lot. He recieves the ball but just passes it back. No offense there. Seems he doesn’t want to attack the paint. Either he is afraid to do it or is told not to try. All these little things add up
I’m beggining to think maybe this team might just are losers not winners. One of my biggest frustrations is we can’t control the fourth quarter. We just fall apart at the end of the game. Shots missed, turnovers, iso ball, no confidence etc. It really hurts watching them lose that way.