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The Kings haven’t improved their defense

The numbers are nearly identical to last season. That's not good.
By | 94 Comments | Dec 28, 2023

Dec 20, 2023; Sacramento, California, USA; Sacramento Kings forward Keegan Murray (13) defends against Boston Celtics guard Derrick White (9) during the first quarter at Golden 1 Center. Mandatory Credit: Ed Szczepanski-USA TODAY Sports

The Sacramento Kings finished the 2022-23 NBA season with the 24th ranked defense, using defensive rating as our measuring stick. It was a bad defense, bolstered by an all-time great offensive season. Entering this season, the hope was that the Kings would improve, even if it was just a little, on the defensive end. At a quick glance, you’d see that the Kings are currently the 21st ranked defense in the NBA. Huzzah! Improvement! Raise the banners and light the beam!

Unfortunately, if we look past the initial ranking and look at any of the defensive metrics, we find that the Kings are not currently any better than last season. In fact, they’re remarkably similar in nearly every way.

If you’d like to follow along at home, I’m using numbers for 2022-23 and 2023-24 from NBA.com/stats.

First, the aforementioned defensive rating. Although the Kings rank a couple slots higher than last season, their defensive rating is currently slightly worse. Last season they finished at 116.0, and currently have a defensive rating of 116.4. Where it gets really fascinating are the other team-metrics available:

Defensive rebounds per game:
Last year 32.9, this year 32.6

Defensive rebound %:
Last year 73.1%, this year 73.3%

Steals:
Last year 7.0, this year 7.1

Blocks:
Last year 3.4, this year 4.1

Opponent points off turnovers:
Last year 16.3, this year 16.5

Opponent second chance points:
Last year 12.7, this year 11.7

Opponent fast break points:
Last year 11.5, this year 11.6

Opponent points in the paint:
Last year 53.5, this year 53.3

Opponent shooting numbers are also nearly identical between last year and this year.

So what do we make of all this? Despite the individual improvement we’ve seen from some players, like De’Aaron Fox and Keegan Murray, and minor improvements in blocks per game and second chance points, the Kings remain a flawed team that struggles on defense. But it makes sense. After all, the Kings opted for continuity this offseason, bringing back the same core pieces as last year’s squad. The Kings banked on internal improvement and continuity. And really, despite the lack of improvement defensively, the Kings are a better team than they were at this point last year. They just aren’t significantly better.

There’s obviously still a lot of season left to play, and perhaps the Kings can continue to improve as the season goes along. Perhaps the Kings can land an impact defender via trade, allowing easier matchups for the rest of the roster.

One final thought on the Kings defensive numbers, courtesy of our own Omer Khan. Offenses are more effective and efficient overall compared to last season, so maintaining the same rating and numbers is actually a sign of improvement. Last year the Kings set the record for best offensive rating in NBA history. So far this season there are 6(!) teams with a better offensive rating than last year’s Kings team. In an ever-improving offensive league, the rankings may indicate improvement and context better than the raw numbers themselves.

We’re roughly a third of the way through this season, we’ll have to wait and see if the Kings can make a more significant defensive improvement the rest of the year.

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RobHessing
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December 28, 2023 2:17 pm

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SactownLegendz
December 28, 2023 2:28 pm

Good article but not a real surprise with a roster that is 90% offensive based players. McNair assembled the team this way, and although it was nice to finally end that ugly playoff drought, Kings might just keep the 1st round playoff drought going for a while if moves aren’t made. A good starting place would be to start Ellis and shift Huerter to forward. Move HB to the bench and then give Davion minutes again as the backup PG. Kev is too big and not athletic enough to play guard, at least when it comes to defense. In today’s game, he’ll get scorched consistently defending 6-3 SGs like Simons and Henderson.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 5:27 pm
Reply to  SactownLegendz

Moving Huerter to SF just makes the existing issues worse

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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December 28, 2023 5:41 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Not if you replace the off guard spot with a defensive minded wing like Thybulle or Caruso.

A rotation of Fox, Thybulle/Caruso, Huerter, Murray, Sabonis is likely to be better defensively than Fox, Huerter, Murray, Barnes, Sabonis.

The former helps stop the penetration to the paint and takes the pressure off of Sabonis to be the anchor.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 6:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If you acquire Thybulle and you plan on keeping Huerter in the starting lineup, Thybulle will play SF and guard the other team’s best wing, but then you have to move KM to PF. This makes us a smaller, weaker team and while it might work in stretches, I don’t think it wins playoff games as Huerter will still be hunted out.

I would rather add Thybulle as a replacement for Huerter straight-up but I don’t think that improves us as much as acquiring a PF replacement for Barnes.

I think Monk should be on the floor at the end of games anyway, therefore I believe a defensive PF would make the most impact considering our limited asset pool to deal with.

Adamsite
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December 28, 2023 7:25 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

But Keegan is the same size as Barnes. I guess I don’t understand the “weaker” argument. That may have had relevance in the 80’s and 90’s but today no one is posting up and using physicality in that way. Barnes isn’t even posting up anymore.

Honestly, I can’t name a single back to the basket physical player other than Sabonis and Lebron. Who is Keegan going to be out strengthened by when it is such a perimeter game?

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 8:28 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

LBJ, Zion, KAT, Banchero, Randle, Giannis, and other big wings who make a living driving through their defenders to get to the hoop (w/ and-1’s). They are too much for Murray to handle at this point in his career. Size means very little when it comes to strength and while they may be similar in size, Barnes is without a doubt much stronger than Murray.

You’re correct that back-to-the-basket post-ups aren’t a big thing any more, but a player’s strength really comes into play when driving to the basket and finishing through contact.

Shoot, Fox is strong AF for a guard, it’s one of the reasons he is so efficient around the rim. He didn’t have that strength in his first few seasons and Murray really shouldn’t be expected to guard the league’s stronger PFs until he has been given time to grow older and naturally bulk up.

I still think KM is best used as a SF because he can guard smaller wings so well and his length is an asset on both sides, but some people seem to think he should be banging down low, I don’t get it. This team needs more size and people are advocating that we get smaller by moving KM to PF, it doesn’t make much sense and it won’t provide the missing physicality that Coach Brown is looking for.

jwalker1395
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December 29, 2023 12:29 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I might suggest moving Murray to SG. He’s a defensive upgrade over Huerter while still maintaining the shooting/length, and he’s a superior rebounder. Then you can fill the forward spots with long, athletic defenders. Assuming you could do so while maintaining the same offensive efficiency, that’d be a significantly improved and more versatile rotation.

andy_sims
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December 29, 2023 10:15 am
Reply to  SactownLegendz

Good article but not a real surprise with a roster that is 90% offensive based players.

An interesting observation that applies more or less to a minimum of eighty percent of NBA teams.

Jman1949
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December 28, 2023 2:31 pm

Kings defense?

comment image&ct=g

RobHessing
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December 28, 2023 2:34 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

comment image

kingarthur916world
December 28, 2023 2:33 pm

The kings need Sabonis at the 4 .

should target these guys .

  • Jakob Poeltl
  • bobby portis
  • jarret allen
  • Wendell carter jr *
  • john Collins who plays better at the 5
  • moritz wagner*
  • jalen smith *

unproven potential *

move keegan Murray to the 2 and target a 3&D wing player .

SF’s

•Deni Avdija *
•Moses moody*
•Deandre Hunter

SG’s

•Matisse thybulle
Alex Caruso

PF’s

kuzma & pj Washington*.

I can deal with Kevin . Please get rid of barnes or move him to the bench monte .

TheGrantNapear
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December 28, 2023 2:55 pm

The problem with pairing most the centers you listed with Sabonis is that they are non-shooters just like Sabonis so it wouldn’t work, there would be no spacing.

Kuz or PJ next to Sabonis makes sense.
This team has a well defined ceiling due to Sabonis’ glaring weakness. A PF that is athetic, can shoot and play D would do wonders for the team and Sabonis. Not easy to find though. So likely have to take flyers on some undervalued players and hope a change of scenery can improve their play.

RobHessing
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December 28, 2023 2:58 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Isaiah Stewart.

TheGrantNapear
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December 28, 2023 3:03 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Stewart would be a great get.
If they threw Bagley in then it’s a no brainer 🙂

RobHessing
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December 28, 2023 3:56 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

It’s not as though we’d have to play Bags – his all-time consecutive game streak is considerably less than the Pistons’ current losing streak.

Jman1949
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December 28, 2023 3:13 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Bring back Bjeli!

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UpgradedToQuestionable
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December 28, 2023 6:29 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Do they deserve this?

kingarthur916world
December 28, 2023 3:34 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

It’s not a problem in my opinion . The league don’t have that many elite stretch 4’s who can play D . Sabonis is capable, the man just don’t .If he can’t adapt the kings should trade him . Fox development as a shooter , is the reason why I will move sabonis to the four . Sabonis is like 250 with a short wingspan , the kings are going to struggle with him at the 5 forever on D .all of them guys are capable but Jakob and jarett Allen . Those two play with 4’s who can’t shoot . All of em play with 4’s who can’t shoot but John and he can shoot .

rockbottom
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December 28, 2023 4:50 pm

That should get us back to 25 wins in no time .

Jack
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December 28, 2023 3:41 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I really like Tari Eason.

BeTheBall
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December 28, 2023 3:43 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Didn’t the Hornets just re-sign PJ to a pretty team-friendly deal this off-season?

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 4:57 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

Yeah, and Miles Bridges return to the starting lineup makes PJ a gettable piece should he be a target.

Adamsite
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December 28, 2023 5:00 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I’d put money on them moving Bridges before Washington. They want to move on from that situation.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 5:43 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I would too if I were CHA…but even though Bridges is the better player (he was one of my fav trade targets before he showed himself to be a POS person), I don’t think he’ll garner as much in return as PJ Washington would specifically due to his off-court history.

It’s hard to hold on to a player like Bridges after he did what he did, but I’d argue it’s way harder to justify giving up significant assets to acquire him (regardless of how good he might be). Maybe DET is desperate enough to make a move like that, but I don’t think too many other teams would.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 5:35 pm

I couldn’t disagree more, Domas is a Center.

The Kings knew it when trading for him and it’s why his production is better now than when he played as a 4 next to the perfect hypothetically pairing in Myles Turner. If a Sabonis/Turner pairing didn’t work, I highly doubt a lesser player than Turner would suddenly make sense next to Domas.

IMO, we don’t need a huge interior player who can shoot 3s (like Turner), we need an athletic perimeter player that can rebound and provide some weakside defense (our version of Aaron Gordon).

Adamsite
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December 28, 2023 5:44 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Isn’t that guy (an athletic perimeter player that can rebound and provide some weakside defense (our version of Aaron Gordon)) Keegan Murray?

IMO, his role with this team going forward is the stretch 4 weak side defender who guard guys off the dribble. What the team needs is a POA defender to stop penetration that shatters the defensive scheme.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 5:56 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Personally, I think Keegan is a perfect SF at this point in his career. If he bulks over the next few years, he could definitely slide over to the PF spot, but right now he gets bullied by stronger players.

Jack
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December 28, 2023 6:31 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

How about Barnes for Lugentz Dork?

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December 28, 2023 7:20 pm
Reply to  Jack

Ha! OKC ain’t making that trade.

BeTheBall
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December 29, 2023 8:18 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Yep, Barnes is a deal we’re stuck with for a while. I don’t see anyone wanting to take on that “production” at that price tag. Our main trade chips are Keegan, Monk, then probably Lyles, then Huerter, and even a Huerter deal would be a very specific type of move where a team is simply looking for a guy to come of the bench and shoot, without having to give up a lot to get that type of player.

kingarthur916world
December 28, 2023 10:21 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Sabonis stats are the same. Less shots and more efficient but always been above 50 percent. The same rebounder. Less steals. All Star at the 4. All Star at the 5. You guys love Aaron Gordon so much he has never been on an all defensive team lol. Jokic & KCP is the best defensive players on that team. Jokic 280 with a 7 foot plus wingspan.stop comparing sabonis and the kings to the nuggets.

oshima9
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December 29, 2023 1:24 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

It is worth noting that the Warriors, when they have had centers who were not shot blockers in the paint, they had a weak side defender in Durant who could block shots and intimidate shooters. Maybe, this is the kind of player the Kings need sans Durant’s offense.

SelecaoKOJ
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December 28, 2023 5:43 pm

Sabonis at the 4? Makes zero sense. He can’t shoot. And that’s obvious, If he can’t shoot at distance, he can’t space the floor. No one is scared of Sabonis taking 20 footers. 80 percent of his shots come within 10 feet and the rim. Teams will let him take perimeter shots all night. Pack the paint and feast.

For all of Sabonis accolades, he had had a couple summers to work on his range and outside game. I don’t see it.

kingarthur916world
December 28, 2023 10:26 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

plenty of 4’s in the league winning championships and advancing past the first round without a jump shot . Great basketball players adapt.

andy_sims
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December 29, 2023 10:20 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Why on Earth would you desire anyone on a team that you root for to take shots from twenty feet out? It’s the worst shot in the game.

SactownLegendz
December 28, 2023 2:33 pm

I just don’t think Brown will be able to break through defensively with this group, even being the defensive guru he is. They need to trade for 1 or 2 plus defenders. Most of these guys have played organized ball at a high level for 10-15+ years, so if they haven’t become good defenders by now…

Jack
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December 28, 2023 3:43 pm
Reply to  SactownLegendz

Barnes for Lugentz Dort.

BeTheBall
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December 28, 2023 3:46 pm
Reply to  Jack

Would be a fun get for us. Though we’d have to send picks, and even then I don’t see why OKC wants to add Barnes and his contract.

Jack
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December 28, 2023 6:35 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

According to some OKC would like a dependable forward who is savy and has the experience to help with this younger roster.

BeTheBall
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December 29, 2023 8:23 am
Reply to  Jack

Barnes answers the latter, but not the former. Especially at his price tag.

andy_sims
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December 29, 2023 10:22 am
Reply to  Jack

“Some people are saying _____. Big, burly men with tears in their eyes…”

TerzoM
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December 28, 2023 2:46 pm

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RobHessing
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December 28, 2023 2:48 pm
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TerzoM
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December 28, 2023 3:31 pm
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December 28, 2023 3:58 pm
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TheGrantNapear
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December 28, 2023 3:00 pm

The crux of improving the roster is that the two likely tradeable player’s values are at all time lows (KH, HB). Resigning HB was a bad decision, that was money that could have been utilized on signing a defensive minded player.
Selling the first round pick didn’t help things either. Questionable offseason moves leave us be where we are. No easy fixes for MM. That’s why I think taking flyers on undervalued not playing well but have potential players is probably the best route to take (think Lauri, who had no value when traded and look at him now).

On another note, myself and many other commenters were hoping we’d draft Sengun the draft we took Davion. Would have been fascinating and entertaining to have Domas and Sengun on the same team and one of the two on the floor at all times.

BeTheBall
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December 28, 2023 3:21 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Those are a few of the reasons why I have have my doubts in our front office’s ability to turn the team into a contender.

Adamsite
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December 28, 2023 4:59 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

The Kings could not have used Barnes money to sign a defensive minded player. He was re-signed via Bird Rights and allowed the Kings to go over the cap to do so. The Kings basically had Sasha money of an exception to get someone. IMO, it was re-sing Barnes to retain him as an asset or let him walk and sign an even more middling vet at a lower cost. As it is, the Kings are just 24th in payroll, so keeping Barnes has actually allowed to them to spend above the cap.

If they want to compete they need to remain above the cap by doing things like retaining Monk and then eventually extending Keegan. I think of Barnes not as a value to contract but an ability to spend to compete. If they can kick his salary down the road to other contracts then they have the ability to spend to compete.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 5:51 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Agree. Having a contract like Barnes allows you to trade for starting-caliber player, he won’t be the actual “asset” to make a trade work but his salary can help line things up. At that time the Kings were unable to offer more money elsewhere, plus retaining HB came with the benefit of continuity (something lacking around here for a long-time, other than continually missing the playoffs).

Sacto_J
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December 28, 2023 8:12 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Stop making sense, you’re confusing some folks.

kingarthur916world
December 28, 2023 10:32 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

Think all kings fans know that. The teams still would need to want to take on that contract. Who were they negotiating with? Why not a 2 year deal or a team option in his last year. To actually make him an attractive asset.

SelecaoKOJ
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December 28, 2023 5:46 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

That money should have gone to Dillon Brooks. That’s one player who’s defensive identity rubs off on the whole team.

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December 28, 2023 5:47 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

The Kings couldn’t afford Brooks in free agency. It’s as simple as that.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 5:47 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

No thanks, D. Brooks is good sometimes but I prefer to like my favorite team too. Plus, he’s way overpaid.

Jack
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December 28, 2023 6:43 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

IMO he would be a terrible fit as a person who would bring down what we are good at. Culture working together and playing together and locker room.

andy_sims
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December 29, 2023 10:26 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

To my recollection, there wasn’t a single person in this forum advocating for signing Dillon Farking Brooks before, during, or after free agency.

“Should haves” are the most disingenuous thing in any conversation. Anyone can be brilliant in hindsight.

oshima9
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December 29, 2023 12:28 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I did, several times, and got mercilessly ridiculed for it because I anticipated this problem.

jwalker1395
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December 29, 2023 12:35 pm
Reply to  oshima9

I, too, thought Brooks would’ve been a great pickup. Perhaps not at $25m/yr but tbh that contact sounds more bearable than this defense currently.

BeTheBall
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December 28, 2023 3:14 pm

Considering they made no effort to even modestly improve their defense, it’s no surprise that we’re once again one of the worst defenses in the league. Yet rather than try to reverse that trend, the chatter is that front office seems to be targeting players who will forego defense in favor of offense.

Jack
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December 28, 2023 3:47 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

They have made efforts. Duarte and Anderson were brought in a low cost. They were yo mbe good defenders but so far not turning out that way. Also Edwards was brought in.

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December 28, 2023 5:03 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

What chatter? Have there been any Kings rumors that they are targeting offensive minded players?

If you are referring to LaVine, all that’s been reported is that HE is open to the idea of playing for the Kings. That’s very similar to ME being open to the idea of dating Scarlett Johansson.

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December 28, 2023 10:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

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Jman1949
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December 29, 2023 6:00 am
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BeTheBall
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December 29, 2023 8:11 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Lavine, Markannen, and to a lesser extent Siakam. Amick has also said the sense he’s getting is that the Kings are looking to target players that will bolster the offense.

andy_sims
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December 29, 2023 10:30 am
Reply to  BeTheBall

But that’s such a meaningless thing for Amick to say. Looking at plus defenders who are more efficient on offense than Davion Mitchell or Kessler Edwards would also bolster the offense. It ain’t Zach LaVine, but it could be scores of other players.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 5:21 pm

I think you hit the main point right on the head with this sentence, “After all, the Kings opted for continuity this offseason, bringing back the same core pieces as last year’s squad.” You need some good defenders to be a good defensive team on a consistent basis.

Fox is putting the effort in on D and still putting up 30pts/gm, he’s dope.Domas is simply undersized when it comes to rim-protection, but he’a a fairly good defender despite that and he puts up close to a triple-double everynight.Murray’s defense is much improved, but he can’t change this team’s defensive trajectory himself.Those 3 are our core players and they aren’t bad defensively, which means that the other two positions are where we need improvement.
Barnes is solid defensively most nights when it comes to his one-on-one matchups, but he’s not much of a help or team defender. HB is isn’t (edited) really a problem defensively during his 1on1 match-ups, but he’s not much help either (I’ve advocated for Lyles mins, don’t care who starts).Then we get to an offensive-minded player like Huerter, he helped us achieve the record offense but without him being on target, his defense is simply too porous to win with in the playoffs (and our best lineups include Monk anyway).IMO, this team has two main areas where it struggles on defense, perimeter POA and in too many easy looks in the paint. If we truly want to compete in the playoffs, we’ll could use a solid 2-way player at SG (I think C. Jones will eventually be that guy) but we NEED a long, strong, athletic defensive minded PF (who could passably shoot the 3). I know these types of players are tough to come by, but there’s always one or two available each year and I think we should continue the path that Monte has taken to slowly improve the team at each seasonal opportunity (FA, Draft, Trade-deadline). I believe Monk should be on the floor during crunch time so in order to maximize the teams performance in the most efficient way, I think the best path to truly improve is to pickup a defensively-versatile PF. They’ll likely need to move Barnes and/or Huerter at some point to recoup what assets or depth that might be lost in other moves.

I would throw a strong package at HOU for Tari Eason built around D. Mitchell and an unprotected 2025 or 2026 FRP. The money swaps evenly so the rest would need to be draft assets. I believe Eason provides the best production vs cost that could be acquired this year. If anyone is wondering why HOU would move such a player, I’ll provide a few reasons:

Eason comes off the bench behind J. Smith, Jr. (one of their core players) and often behind Jae’Sean Tate as well.HOU has several players competing for mins at SF & PF, with money heavily invested in D. Brooks while J. Smith is the long-term starter there. Tate, Eason, Amen Thompson, Cam Whitmore and Reggie Bullock are left fighting for backup mins.Eason is between 7-9th in mins played on HOU (when they’re fully healthy); all things considered, he is more valuable as a trade piece for future assets to be used later than he is as a player on the court now.Ideally, the Kings could also acquire Caruso in a separate deal but I think we all know that he’s wanted by too many teams around the league and is likely a pipedream (mostly due to his contract vs production, unlike OG who would require major draft assets AND a sizeable investment) and I doubt the Kings have the assets to compete with other offers.

In regards to the league-wide record offensive ratings, it’s a long season and I bet the 6 teams referenced will regress to the norm a bit and maybe only one or two will remain consistently good throughout the remaining 2/3s of the season.

Last edited 3 months ago by NorCalKingsFan
SelecaoKOJ
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December 28, 2023 5:36 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Not sure. By the eye test it looks like Sabonis, Murray and Fox are all good defenders. But the numbers I posted above tell a different tale. All
of that can’t be blamed on 2 players. That makes zero sense.

Sabonis is an average defender at best that feasts on smaller bigs most of the time. Not so much when he’s up against formidable bigs like Senguin, Zubac,’Valenciunas etc.Single exception is his advantage against the inconsistent Anthony Davis.
Sabonis can’t space the floor, shoot at range or rim protect.
Teams will continue to take away his bread and butter in the playoffs.’He’s a regular season lion. Who’s completely disappeared or been mediocre at best. In 4 playoff appearances. Averaging 12-8. And 6-14.

Fox is improved defender. But he doesn’t make the players around him better. Like a Doncic. So he will have little to no influence on how bad Barnes, Huerter or anyone else is playing in that end.

Murray has also improved as a defender. But against faster more athletic players. The guy gets put in a blender. Saw it constantly against a very fast and high flying and Bad blazers team.
Brown stating that he can guard 1-4 is kinda laughable. He can’t. Guys just blow right past him. He’s a true 4 and that should be his natural position. Dreaming that he’s Jason Tatum is not going to work.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 6:27 pm
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Well yeah, but those 3 are also our most efficient offensive players. You can get by with average defense from your 3 best offensive players due to their offensive output, but when that’s the case, the defensive slack can ONLY be made up by the other 2 players on the court.

On the Kings roster, that is KH & HB and neither has defensive-minded focus (HB is jack-of-all-trades, master-of-nothing player and KH is a streaky 3PT sniper, you are not getting superior defense out of those 2 no matter how hard they try. It was enough to get us into the playoffs, but we won’t get too much further until those two spots are upgraded.

It’s kind of funny that you bring up Doncic in the context of defense, he’s one of the worst defensive players in the NBA. I assume you meant his game as a whole and not his atrocious defense. While Doncic is a legit MVP candidate and may make some nice passes to get his teammates open, he doesn’t make people around him better. If he did, he wouldn’t have to score so much each and every game and they’d win more often than they do. Also, the Mavs (w/ Doncic) are worse than the Kings (w/Fox), so I don’t really understand that line of thinking.

Jimmy Butler and Jrue Holiday are the type of players who make others around them better. Fox is closer to their profile than Doncic is.

RikSmits
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December 29, 2023 10:05 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Sorry, but I have to push back here.

Fox is not an improved defender!

I am not here to shit on Fox. I have learned my lessons and have eaten crow. His offensive game has developed tremendously and this season his 3p shooting has been excuisite.

But he is simply a bad defender. Period.

Is he trying harder? I think so, although the effort varies fromn game to game and from quarter to quarter. But the results are below par. The shooters that Fox defended this season shot 6.7% better than their averages when defended by Fox. In the most impactful category, 3 pointers, the opponents of Fox shoot 7.1% better than their season average. That is not good, to put it mildly.

De’Aaron Fox | Sacramento Kings | NBA.com

Last season, opposing players shot overall 2.2% better from the field. And even 0.5% worse on 3’s! So Fox regressed substanmtialkly this season.

Overall, we have just 4 rotational guys who cause opponents to shoot below their normal averages: Keon, Keegan, Sasha and Domas. Davion is a zero sum player and all the others are negative in that category (Fox the worst).

Players Defense Dash Overall | Stats | NBA.com

As to Luka Doncic, in a reply described as “one of the worst defensive players in the NBA“, his opponents shoot 2.2% better than average against him. Fun fact; Tyrese Haliburton, who gets often ridiculed for his D, lets opponent shoot 6.5% better (but his defense of the 3p shot is very good, interesting enough).

For comparison, the top 3 guard defenders in the NBA in this category, who played at least 10 games and defended at least 10 shots per game, are KCP from Denver (players shoot 6.1% worse against him), Jaylen Brown (5.4% worse) and Max Struss (5.1%).

With these same filters (at least 10 games, at lkeast 10 shots defended) only Lamelo Ball (8.4%) and Shaedon Sharpe (6.9%) allow their opponets to shoot better than Fox.

I am sure that this stat isn’t perfect and is partly also team dependent, but it is nontheless an important data point that should not be ignored. And to me, it matches the eye test.

RikSmits
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December 29, 2023 10:22 am
Reply to  RikSmits

And one; if we are talking forwards to target for their ability to lower opponents FG%, here are some names:

  • Isaiah Stewart (opponents shoot 6.0% worse defended by him)
  • Precious Achiuwa (minus 3.3%)
  • O.G. Anunoby (minus 1.6%)
  • Dorian Finney-Smith (minus 1.5%).

On the other side of the spectrum:

  • Kelly Olynyk (players shoot 5.7% better)
  • PJ Washington (5.3%)
  • Keldon Johnson (4.0%).
andy_sims
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December 29, 2023 10:36 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Do players like Doncic or Haliburton routinely guard an opponent’s best or second-best player, or are they routinely hidden by covering the fifth offensive option on defense?

Seriously asking, I truly have no idea.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 29, 2023 11:55 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Feel free to push back, that’s what the forum is for!

While I agree that opposing field goal percentage can be helpful, it only judges whether or not someone makes a shot that they took, it doesn’t count positioning, steals, blocks, stopped drives, or simple good defense that forces the opponent to pass to someone else.

For example, Bruce Brown and Matisse Thybulle are good defenders, but their opponents are shooting 4.7% higher against them this year. I don’t think Fox is anywhere near their level, but they also don’t score 30pts/gm.

IMO, there aren’t many other lead guards who are as solid defensively as Fox is (think Jrue Holiday, SGA, DJ Murray), but there are even fewer who are as good offensively while also holding it down on defense.

My main point that you responded to was that our 3 best players are offensive-minded and if we want to be better defensively, then I think we need 2 defensive-minded players to balance out that offensive focus.

Jack
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December 28, 2023 6:52 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I finally found someone who agrees that Tari Eason would be a good fit next to Sabonis. He plays defense can protect the weakside rim defend from 1 to 4 can stretch the floor and shoot the 3 can run the floor is young and can still improve his game. Sure he because of his youth still has room for improvement but is very athletic and has a high motor.

Jack
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December 28, 2023 6:56 pm
Reply to  Jack

I would also look at Barnes for Lugentz Dort If not Barnes then Huerter. His salary matches Dort’s.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 8:37 pm
Reply to  Jack

Huerter for Dort makes a ton of sense for SAC, but I don’t think OKC would do it without a major haul in return.

kingarthur916world
December 28, 2023 10:36 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Bruv. The rockets are not trading Eason for the same reason why you want him .

NorCalKingsFan
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December 29, 2023 11:59 am

Maybe, but he’s not a marque player for HOU and based on the mins played so far this year, he’s the 3rd PF on their depth chart (Jea’Sean Tate has been J. Smith Jr.s primary backup this year). That means that there is likely a path to get the deal done.

SelecaoKOJ
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December 28, 2023 5:21 pm

It’s actually worse:

Kings half court defensive rating 103.7 (26th)

Allowing pts at the Rim. 68.3 (26th)
Allowing pts at the mid range 45.2 (24th)
From Deep: 39.8 (28th)

All the while. Their offense is not what it was last year. (12th)

One defensive role player is not going to put a band aid on this.

Jman1949
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December 28, 2023 5:35 pm

OT—Halftime score!

Pistons 66 – Celtics 47

Adamsite
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December 28, 2023 5:48 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Whoa! Wouldn’t that be something if it holds.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 6:30 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It’s sad that it seems so inevitable that DET will collapse before the game ends.

Jman1949
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December 28, 2023 6:34 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Ha! Tied by the end of the third and neck-and-neck right now.

Jman1949
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December 28, 2023 6:54 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Tied at 108 apiece and going to OT!

Jman1949
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December 28, 2023 7:12 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

PISTONS!!!…

still streaking.

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December 28, 2023 7:27 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

I really feel bad for Cade. He can only do so much.

NorCalKingsFan
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December 28, 2023 8:39 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah, I remember that gut-sinking feeling from watching the Kangz be 10+ pts up on a superior team at half, KNOWING they would not be able to keep the lead was always so depressing.

jwalker1395
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December 29, 2023 12:40 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Pistons! Cade is the source of your problems! We will graciously take him off your hands!

scottymusprime
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December 28, 2023 6:54 pm

So maybe this isn’t the biggest shock, but the Kings play much better defense in wins than in losses this year. According to stat muse, the Kings are 128.76 in losses since their loss to Houston (I couldn’t find the earlier data) and 113.6 in victories. But here’s what matters more to me.

There are more wins than losses. We usually play pretty good defense. When we lose, we usually have the doors blown off. We’ve lost 3 games by less than 10 points, and the others are games that seemed to have gotten away from the beginning. I think that — for whatever reason — we just don’t go full throttle when we’re being uhhh throttled.

I also think that the complaints about Mike Brown are completely overblown. He’s a great coach, he brings out the best in players, and you watch what he’s done for the culture of the team. Even the social media team is influenced by the way he works. He’s impacted the building from top to bottom. In that vein, while it boggles my mind that HB still starts when everyone lower than him in the rotation seems to have minutes moved around quite a bit, I can only assume it’s one of three things:

1 — Monte wants him starting to keep his value high.
2 — Brown has a lot more patience than we do (Huerter will regress to the mean, though Barnes may have just regressed)
3 — He doesn’t like what he’s seeing from the guys who could take his place. I’d try Sasha at some point or Trey just to mix it up, but maybe he doesn’t buy that they’ll really improve the team. (Comparisons per 36m and per 100possessions Rank them Sasha > HB > Trey)

I think we’ll make an impact trade at some point. Whether that’s a high caliber move like Lauri, OG, Siakam or someone who isn’t on our radar yet (Monte special!) or a mid-grade move like Hart, Grant, etc. I think we’re in a panic because we’ve played 3 ugly games in the last week (admittedly, two were against the #1 seed in each conference and one of those was 2nd of a b2b)

We’re in good shape, rough week or now. I still like our odds in 7 games against anyone that isn’t Denver (respect the champs) or NOP (See evidence from this year).

Kfan
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December 29, 2023 8:12 am
Reply to  scottymusprime

Funny thing, looking at last 10 games we’re 6-4. Haven’t been playing well and though we’ve lost games to the teams above us in the West we’ve still gained on all the teams below us except the Pels and Jazz who also went 6-4.

aplumley
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December 29, 2023 9:57 am

If you are looking for silver linings, Murray looks to be a legit 2 way player and Fox has shown the ability to situationally be a ball stopper. Things we didn’t see last year. The issues seem to be less to do with individual ability than discipline. Huerter has even stepped his game up a bit on the defensive end and his rebounding has been much better. I think he’ll always be a minus defender though. Barnes has dropped way off on the defensive end, which, at 31, is a bit surprising as I would think he’d have a few more solid athletic years in him. Barnes either needs to find the fountain of youth or they may need to put a longer, more athletic wing in there. I wish Edwards could shoot, that would solve a lot of problems.

ajonez81
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December 29, 2023 10:31 am

Was looking at NBA.com power rankings and Kings are 8th, which is near where I put us overall. We are a pretty good or good team but not a really good or great contender. I say this from watching lots of games and also looking at defense and offense ratings and also point differential. The 7 teams above us actually do better than us in all theae categories and there is a pretty big drop off after the Clippers at 7. We’re just not elite and that’s okay but this roster is just not that great. Monte will need to continue to make changes, he seems to be under directions to do so slowly to make sure we don’t ruin the moderate success it has taken this franchise so long to get back to.

Malrock
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December 29, 2023 11:33 am

To paraphrase the article:

If you exclude all the kings who did improve their defense then they haven’t improved their defense at all.

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