30 games into the 2024-25 season, the Kings are now 13-17, 12th in the Western Conference and riding a 4 game losing streak, all at home. In fact, the Kings are just 6-11 at home compared to 7-6 on the road. They’ve lost 10 games by 5 points or fewer. Anyway you cut it, this season has been an unmitigated disaster. There’s still time for the Kings to right the ship (they’re only 2.5 games out of the Play-In right now), but we’re getting closer to the point where the Kings need to consider if this ship is even worth righting. So how did we get here?
The Beam Team
The 2022-23 season was magical. Monte McNair went out and made a couple of key acquisitions in the summer, getting Kevin Huerter for a future first round pick and signing Malik Monk in free agency. They also got lucky in the lottery the previous year and got the 4th pick, drafting Keegan Murray. New head coach Mike Brown built a high octane offense revolving around Domantas Sabonis and De’Aaron Fox that set NBA records. That season saw the Kings finally break their 16 year playoff drought as they finished 3rd in the West at 48-36. It was an unusually bad year for the Western Conference, with multiple teams missing star players for extended period due to injury, while the Kings remained remarkably healthy. Unfortunately Sacramento’s reward that season for their first playoff match in nearly two decades was a grueling test against the defending champion Golden State Warriors. The Kings and Warriors ended up going 7 games in a very exciting series, and it took a Steph Curry nuclear explosion in Game 7 to finally snuff out the Kings dreams. But even in defeat, the future looked bright as the Kings had finally gotten to the big stage and it only looked like things could go up from here.
The Season of Inaction
After that magical season the Kings went into that summer with an air of confidence in what they had built. The previous year had been the most active Sacramento’s front office had been in a long time (starting back even the season before when they made the mid-season move to acquire Domantas Sabonis for Tyrese Haliburton). The summer of 2023 though, the Kings were mostly quiet, content to see if this roster could build on the previous season’s success with a few tweaks. They used their first round draft pick to get off Richaun Holmes’ salary (a player the Mavericks later used to acquire Daniel Gafford from Washington), and then traded two future second rounders to Indiana for Chris Duarte. They moved up slightly in the second round to draft Colby Jones, a shooting guard, and gave him a four year contract under the new second-round rookie provision. But their big coup-de-grace of the summer was bringing over Euroleague MVP Sasha Vezenkov to the states after acquiring his rights a couple seasons earlier. Vezenkov was just coming off a huge season with Olympiakos, and his shooting was supposed to take Sacramento’s offense to even greater heights. Other than that, the Kings didn’t make any other major moves with the only other transaction being cutting Neemias Queta in favor of veteran JaVale McGee. It was a quiet summer, but the Kings still had some ammo to make some moves if they needed to.
The Kings season started off even better than the prior one, with the Kings going 18-12 over their first 30 games. However, there were some signs that the facade was cracking. Sacramento’s offense wasn’t nearly as explosive as it had been the year prior as teams started to figure the Kings out. Vezenkov, the big signing of the summer, barely got any playing time because Coach Brown didn’t trust his defense (and rightly so, as he was too slow to guard opposing wings and too short to guard opposing bigs). It also quickly became clear that the Chris Duarte reclamation project wasn’t going well either, as while Duarte provided some defensive intensity, he was almost completely useless on the other end of the court.
The Kings were involved in many trade rumors that season, with the big names being OG Anunoby and Pascal Siakam, but Sacramento wasn’t willing to meet the price either team was asking. Anunoby ended up going to the New York Knicks for RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley and a 2024 2nd round pick, a haul the Kings really couldn’t have matched unless they included Keegan Murray. Siakam ended up going to the Indiana Pacers for Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis Jr. and three first round draft picks. That one was maybe one the Kings could have gotten involved in but something about Sacramento apparently soured Siakam and he reportedly told the Kings he wouldn’t re-sign there if they acquired him.
Those were big swings though, and there were still other moves out there that could have made a difference. The Dallas Mavericks for example were very active at the deadline, acquiring PJ Washington from the Hornets for Seth Curry, Grant Williams and a 2027 1st round pick. Dallas even got a couple of second round picks back in that trade too. They also made that aforementioned trade for Daniel Gafford to bolster their frontline. With those two minor moves that didn’t really take that many assets, the Mavericks went from being a fringe playoff team to a true contender, even going all the way to the NBA Finals with both Washington and Gafford playing a major part.
Meanwhile the Kings finally got hit by the injury bug, with first Kevin Huerter and then Malik Monk being knocked out for the season right as the Kings were in the playoff hunt. Despite winning just two fewer games than the prior season at 46-36, the Kings had gone from a 3 seed to a 9th seed and would need to win a Play-In Tournament to make the playoffs. Their first match was fittingly against the Golden State Warriors, and the Kings got some measure of revenge by blowing them out at home to end their season, but the Kings fell apart in the following game against the New Orleans Pelicans, a team that had beaten them five times already over the course of the regular season. It was clear this team had fundamental flaws that needed to be addressed, mainly size and wing depth. If there was one saving grace of the season it was the emergence of former two-way guard Keon Ellis, who stepped up when the Kings needed him, showing that he could be a 3 and D player that the Kings desperately needed. Ellis played so well the Kings signed him to a real contract, and many expected him to continue starting even when Huerter and Monk came back.
A Draft Pick Nobody Wanted
One outcome from the Kings missing out on the playoffs was that they got to retain their first round pick in the upcoming draft. Had they made the playoffs, that pick would have gone to the Hawks to satisfy the Kevin Huerter trade. Instead, the Kings now had the 13th pick in what was widely considered a very weak draft. The Kings made this pick widely available in the days leading up to the draft but nobody was biting. The Kings were mentioned in rumors for Alex Caruso (who instead went to Oklahoma City for Josh Giddey), Lauri Markkanen (who Danny Ainge wanted blood from a stone for) and Kyle Kuzma, but it didn’t seem like anyone thought the pick was worth giving up a proven asset for. So when the draft came, the Kings instead used it to take Devin Carter, another guard, over other prospects like Dalton Knecht or Tristan Da Silva that would have brought more size on the wing for the Kings. Carter was one of the players that most pundits considered “NBA ready” but it turns out he had unresolved shoulder issues that caused him to slide a bit in the draft as he would require surgery before entering the league. Carter could be back for the Kings soon but at this point it’s unclear what his impact might be, especially given a lack of training camp and the fact that the Kings have so many guards they can’t play them all (a topic we will come back to).
DeBig Move
The Kings did end up making one draft day move, and that was to send Davion Mitchell, Sasha Vezenkov and their 2024 and 2025 second round picks to Toronto in a pure salary dump. Vezenkov made it clear after his rookie year that he didn’t enjoy riding the pine in the NBA and wanted out, and Mitchell was getting lost in a crowded backcourt. The Kings also were clearly freeing up space to make some type of bigger move. They had already re-signed Malik Monk (a big win for the Kings as other franchises could have paid him more in the open market), but they were clearly big game hunting. Then news broke that DeMar DeRozan was in Sacramento visiting the Kings front office. DeRozan, one of the NBA’s best scorers, would be one of the biggest acquisitions in Kings history, if not the biggest in terms of name recognition. DeRozan quickly finalized an agreement with the Kings and Sacramento worked with the Bulls and San Antonio Spurs on a three team trade that sent Harrison Barnes and a 2031 1st round pick swap to the Spurs and Chris Duarte and two future 2nd round picks to the Bulls in return for DeRozan on a 3 year, $70 million deal.
The move was widely celebrated in Sacramento, a market not used to getting such names. However, around the NBA there was plenty of skepticism about the fit. DeRozan was a good scorer, but mostly from the midrange, and wouldn’t provide a ton of floor spacing for a Kings team that already needed some extra space around De’Aaron Fox and Domantas Sabonis. DeRozan also didn’t help the Kings defensively, and in fact made them smaller if he was going to take over Harrison Barnes role in the starting lineup. Most Sacramento fans, myself included, largely brushed off these concerns mainly due to the fact that Harrison Barnes hadn’t been what many had claimed him to be for some time now. Barnes was a good veteran, but would too often disappear in games, and the Kings needed more consistency from that position. DeRozan theoretically should have brought that consistency, as well as giving the Kings yet another standout option in crunch time to go with Fox.
What could possibly go wrong?
It All Goes Wrong
The Kings season started off on the wrong foot pretty much immediately. First, multiple injuries during training camp caused the team to have some weird rotations and not really get to work everybody in. Then came the surprising news that Mike Brown was planning to start Kevin Huerter on opening night despite Huerter missing the entirety of training camp and preseason as he recovered from his shoulder surgery. Keon Ellis hadn’t had the best preseason, but still, it was surprising to see Huerter being thrown into the fire immediately without any preparation instead of slowly being worked in. It should be no surprise then that he struggled in that first game against Minnesota, scoring just 2 points on 1-4 shooting in 19 minutes. The Kings as a whole played fairly well in that game, led by DeMar’s 26 points, but in the end the Wolves won by 2 points. Close losses quickly became a theme for this Kings team as the following game they lost to the Los Angeles Lakers by 4.
The questions about Sacramento’s spacing quickly came back as well, as the Kings three point shooting took a complete nose dive. The Kings have actually been shooting a bit better of late, but through 30 games are still just 24th in percentage at 34.2%. Keegan Murray and Kevin Huerter, two of Sacramento’s most frequent shooters, are shooting just 30.2% and 31.1% respectively. De’Aaron Fox, who puts up 6 attempts a game, is making just 33.3% of them. DeMar DeRozan himself is only at 30.8%. Not only do the Kings fare terribly at making their threes, they hardly even shoot them anymore. Last season, the Kings had the 3rd highest three point attempt rate in the league. This season they’re 24th. It’s hard to lay all of that on DeRozan’s shoulders, but it’s definitely simply a reality of what playing him big minutes can mean. Take a look at the three point attempt rate for DeRozan’s teams since he left Toronto:
24th(this year), 29th, 29th, 30th, 30th, 28th, and 30th.
DeRozan is still an effective scorer, averaging 20.8 points a game on 47.9% from the field, but he’s also struggling to mesh with a Kings team that has relied so heavily on three point shooting in the past. He also has been dealing with a sore back lately, and during this recent losing streak has seen his scoring plummet, averaging just 10.3 points on 33.3% from the field. The Kings brought DeRozan in to be that third option and if he can’t score, he’s a liability as he’s still going to be taking quite a few shots. If he isn’t healthy, the Kings need to rest him until he is.
Sacramento’s poor roster construction is also forcing Mike Brown to play a shortened rotation and heavy minutes. De’Aaron Fox currently leads the NBA in minutes played and is playing a career-high 37.2 minutes a game (he was at 35.9 the year before and just 33.4 in the 22-23 season). Domantas Sabonis, Keegan Murray and DeMar DeRozan are all at around 35-36 minutes a game as well. Malik Monk finally joined the starting lineup after both Huerter and Ellis failed to spark the team in that role, and he’s been playing well as a starter but unfortunately it hasn’t been adding up to winning yet. Sacramento’s lack of wing depth forced them to sign Jae Crowder, who even started in his first game before eventually being relegated to the end of the bench. Crowder is clearly on his last legs in the NBA and is akin to a bandaid fix on an amputated arm.
Keegan Murray is the only actual wing capable of giving minutes on this roster right now, and as such is often tasked with the hardest defending job in the entire team night after night. He’s also seen his offense fall to its lowest level yet as he’s the last option on almost any given possession, especially with the starters where all four other guys are the team’s main scoring threats. The Kings desperately need Murray to regain his shooting touch from outside, as most of their offensive hopes hinged on his spacing. But whether it’s tired legs or just an ungodly slump, Murray has yet to bring the same kind of offensive burst he had in years prior. Fewer attempts means fewer chances to get in rhythm as well.
Keon Ellis has seen his minutes jerked around a ton this season, which is unfortunate given he’s one of the team’s best defensive and three point shooting options. Does Kevin Huerter, who shoots and defends worse than Ellis, deserve to be playing more minutes at this point? It’s true that Ellis needs to assert himself more offensively, but even still, he’s able to provide something of value even when his shot isn’t falling, whereas Huerter is mostly only effective when he can reliably hit his shots.
Sacramento’s defense has also continued to exhibit the same problem it has for years, with opponents feasting on wide open three pointers. The Kings have the 3rd worst opponent three point defense in the league, allowing their opponents to shoot 37.5% from distance. Kings opponents make 14.6 threes a game, 2.7 more than the Kings themselves. That’s nearly a 9 point margin the Kings are giving up on average every game and given how often the Kings are in close games, that’s a big deal. The Kings were also awful in three point defense the last two seasons, but they shot enough of their own that they actually averaged more makes than their opponents. Now the three point defense has gotten even worse, but this time without Sacramento making up for it with their own threes.
Mike Brown got an extension before this season and that’s probably the only reason he’s still the coach right now, as the Kings would have to eat all that future salary should they let him go mid-season. Brown certainly isn’t the sole or even biggest problem with this Kings team, but he hasn’t been helping matters with how inconsistent his rotations have been, and the fact that the team can’t seem to come out with a fire lit under them is a leadership problem.
All these problems have resulted in a Kings team in free fall, unable to win close games, home games or any against good teams. Their only wins on the season against opponents currently above .500 are two wins against the Phoenix Suns without Kevin Durant, a win against the Spurs without Victor Wembanyama, and wins against the Timberwolves and Rockets. They’ve blown double digit leads, they’ve lost to lottery teams and they say the same thing game after game about not paying enough attention to the details. More frustrating, they’re not showing any real fight. This is a Kings team that came in with hopes of contending for a true playoff spot and now that looks further away than ever after dropping four straight.
But the biggest problem for the Kings may have just started to rear its head.
The Looming Free Agency of De’Aaron Fox
When De’Aaron Fox turned down his contract extension this summer, there didn’t seem to be any cause to worry. It was just a math problem. If Fox waited one more season, he could try for an All-NBA team which would result in a contract worth millions more. Even if he didn’t make it, you could sign the same extension the following summer.
But now with the Kings struggling, Fox and his camp are starting to make some noise that signing an extension might not be a foregone conclusion, and that’s where the Kings could be in big trouble. There’s already blood in the water, especially after last week saw Rich Paul, Fox’s agent, sitting with Kings GM Monte McNair at the game in a conversation that was focused on “an existential question that needs to be answered if this partnership that began eight seasons ago between Fox and the Kings is going to continue long term.”
It’s hard to blame Fox for not wanting to lock up the prime years of his career on a team that isn’t winning, especially when so many of his peers are enjoying success year after year. Fox is playing some of the best basketball of his career this season with 26.2 points on 48.3% from the field to go with 6.2 assists, 5 rebounds and 1.6 steals a game. He’s stepped his game up defensively and he’s one of the most dangerous fourth quarter scorers in the NBA. But if things don’t change soon, he may force Sacramento’s hand.
But there’s an uncomfortable question the Kings need to ask themselves before they do anything too desperate to try to retain Fox’s favor and that’s if there is enough here with this team to actually build a contender, or if they’re better off not throwing good money after bad and starting over. The way I see it, the Kings have four options.
Option #1
The first option the Kings have, and the one that I think they will make, is to use some of their already limited assets in a trade for a good player, but not a star. Think a Jerami Grant, John Collins, Kyle Kuzma or Cam Johnson type. They’ll likely sacrifice some of their already limited depth to do so, but maybe a more balanced roster will actually be enough to right the ship. The only issue is that this type of trade would have to work out and quickly, or you risk putting yourself in a position where you still miss the playoffs and now have even less to work with with Fox asking out anyway. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the Kings used DeMar DeRozan in this type of trade, calling a mulligan on the signing and trying to get some more spacing and depth back in. But if it does work out, you can hopefully get Fox to sign an extension and then have some more time to figure out the future.
Option #2
Go star hunting once again, and this time dangle Keegan Murray in the talks. The Kings have been unwilling to include Murray in future deals, and it makes sense since he’s the only player the Kings have at their biggest position of need, but if the Kings want to land a big fish, they’re going to have to put in some big assets. The problem is I don’t really know what kind of big name is out there right now that would make sense to trade Murray for. Zach Lavine and Brandon Ingram are the names that pop up most, but neither seem to fix Sacramento’s biggest problems. There doesn’t really seem to be the availability of big names out there that would be real game changers for this team. Someone like Lauri Markkanen can’t be traded until next summer, and guys like Zion Williamson come with big risks themselves.
Option #3
Trade De’Aaron Fox now for a haul. Fox is by far the greatest asset the Kings have, and trading him would be the ultimate risk. You’d be re-orienting the team around Domantas Sabonis for the given future, and you’d need the players you get for Fox to be able to come in and help win now. You could get a little bit younger, with some more depth, but would likely have less star power unless one of the young players you trade for manages to grow into a star themselves. Think back to when the Thunder traded Paul George to Oklahoma City and got Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and picks out of it. Now, Fox doesn’t have the same cachet that George had at the time, but he’d still be a piece most teams would want. The Kings might end up having to do this anyway if their other plans don’t work out. I would rather do this too soon than too late, as Fox’s value will be higher the more time a team has with him, especially if they can lock him up long term.
Option #4
Blow it all up and start over. This is the least attractive and most unrealistic option, but in a small corner of my mind might be the best option. The Kings are not anywhere near an NBA contender level team in my opinion. We have good players, some are great even, but the levels needed to be championship level aren’t there. We have limited future assets to work with already, and what we have hasn’t been good enough to get out of the first round (or at this rate even make it to the first round). The ceiling for this core may have already been met. If that’s the case, the Kings might be best suited to just call it in early and go for a full ground up rebuild. I can’t possibly imagine Vivek allowing Monte (or another GM, as Monte likely would be fired if we had to face this scenario) doing this, but it’s something the Kings have never really truly done. The last rebuild took so long for two reasons: shortsighted solutions and terrible draft picks. Drafting the right players is such a huge part of rebuilding. Just look at what the Grizzlies, Thunder and Rockets were able to do in a few short years because they drafted well (and high). The Kings could completely restock their assets. Sabonis and Fox alone would fetch huge sums in terms of picks and young players. You could even keep young guys like Keegan Murray, Keon Ellis and Devin Carter and just play them a ton. But the sting of 16 seasons of losing is still too fresh for the Kings to choose this option, so it’s probably not worth discussing in too much detail.
Time’s Running Out
The Kings are quickly running out of time for self-correction to take effect. Yes, their Net Rating is positive, and statistics have the Kings with an expected Wins-Loss record of 16-14, but that’s not where we are at right now. The season is very close to the halfway point, and right now the Kings look closer to being a pretender than a contender. It’s hard to see how this team manages to make up ground in the West without some type of major move, and even then, such a move isn’t guaranteed to pay off. But recovery is possible. The same Warriors team that beat the Kings in that playoff series a couple years ago started the season 14-16, and the Lakers that made the 7th seed that year were the same 13-17 that the Kings find themselves in now. That Warriors team mostly recovered by getting players back healthy, while the Lakers made moves in acquiring Rui Hachimura and D’Angelo Russell before the deadline, which helped rebalance a team that was poorly constructed (sound familiar?).
Still, inaction has to be off the table. Something must be done and quickly, or else this Kings season from hell will continue to spiral out of control and we could be looking at some of the more drastic options the Kings have on the table whether the team and ownership like it or not. The era of good vibes is over.
A post that is better in construction & execution than the source of the topic.
For me, it’s a fairly simple set of circumstances:
DDR for Barnes, while being a talent upgrade, addressed none of the roster holes & added an element of redundancy, which has influenced the contributions of at least Sabonis (who has been flexible & fabulous) & Murray (who has channeled all of it to the D end). It’s just not a good fit.
The frustrating part is that this is a conversation that is two years running now. And that guys like PJ Washington or John Collins appeared to be (a) solutions and (b) available. For that, I place the blame fully on the front office and their inability to move off their valuations model to meet the market. They fucked up the easiest part of the rebuild. They should go.
I stand by my opinion on the DDR trade at the time it happened, that it was a good move specifically because they still had the assets to make another move or two. I was very disappointed when it became clear they weren’t going to do anything else. We could all see this roster’s imbalance, and it’s killed the team this season. And that imbalance has existing for two years now.
Yep. It was a clear talent upgrade. Now, close the roster holes. Get a guy to play in between Sabonis & Murray, and maybe a guy that can back the 3-4 better than a collection of square pegs.
If you get a guy to play in-between Keegan and Sabonis, then is the plan to have DDR come off the bench? It seems to me that DDR may be the one who needs to be moved to find that guy we so often speak of. The problem is, I don’t see any team out there that both want DDR and have what the Kings want.
The cost of the 4 might include moving DDR (a three team involving DDR & John Collins, for eg.).
In could see moving DDR to get a guy like Collins being a good move. It slides Keegan back to the 3, adds length, shooting and rim protection. It kind of corrects a lot of wrongs with this roster.
And it allows Keegan to guard the best player 1-3 instead of getting outmatched guarding power forwards.
I had high hopes that DDR would be used as a guy to help get a bucket when the offense had grounded to a halt. I envisioned a team that had many options offensively, and could score in many ways. But I quickly realized that was not the plan that Brown and his staff had.
Now the fit is beyond clunky, and a change needs to be made.
I thought the same and was mistaken. Unfortunately, it seems DDR is often the one who grinds the offense to a halt.
I thought we might see him driving more and kicking to shooters, or being used in the PnR with Domas. But it’s usually just get on the elbow and post up. Not sure if that is by design from the coaches, or he just calls his shot.
I also don’t know if teammates like him. I can’t recall seeing Fox and Monk talk with DDR much during games. I will have to check the next game. Cohesion is a big deal in team sports, and this team appears to be fractured.
If Fox played off ball and Derozan had the ball he could penetrate the paint and kick it out.
IMO you trade Fox now before the extension. I looks like the Spurs would be the obvious team to trade with. They have young players and draft capital to do this. A Fox trade for Castle. Johnson, Sochan 2 firsts and 3 seconds would probably do it. I think with Huerter, Lyles, Jones and Ellis and probably a first and second you could get Collins and Kessler. I know Fox scores more but Castle just got an Aplus from the league. IMO he is going to be a really good point guard. And IMO Carter will be a player and a great backup. You could also stagger there minutes. Johnson a good backup to Monk and Sochan to Collins or Murray. Kessler would be an excellent backup tp Sabonis and if heaven forbid he was to get injured he would be a good starter. You haven’t completely blown up the roster but inserted youing good talent possible to get into the playin. You now have more draft capital to trade or go after more talent. With this roster you have multiple scorers not just one or two or three. And it would be a good fun team to root for.
I think the Spurs will be very reluctant to give up Castle. What if the deal were Chris Paul, Sochan, Champagnie, and Zach Collins (plus assorted draft picks) for Fox and whoever the Spurs might take among C Jones, ORob, McLaughlin, or Len? Paul would spend the last half of this season schooling Carter and Collins would be a decent backup to Domas. Sochan and Champagnie give us a couple of young forwards with some length.
In this case do you think Zach Collins can be a good backup to Sabonis. Has the fire and won’t back down. If so wouldn’t have to go after Kessler just John Collins. I don’t know.
I still think the Spurs with Paul and Fox Castle would be available. Monte makes that sure. I would then maybe switch Johnson for Collins. It would now look like Castle, Collins, Sochan 2 firsts and 3 seconds. Maybe.
Zach Collins is included mostly for salary matching purposes, but he is a much better backup alternative than anyone currently on the Kings roster. I’d much rather have him than Len or ORob as a spot starter if Domas couldn’t go for a game or two.
The prizes here are Sochan and Champagnie to balance out the roster. I like Johnson, but he doesn’t have Champagnie’s length or 3-pt shooting ability.
John Collins was not just available, but available for basically nothing. Now it would take a decent haul to get him.
Before you start looking at these options, as an organization you have to fiurst ask and answer the big question:
Is De’Aaron Fox capable of being the number 1 guy on a championship contender?
If that answer is “no”, that takes most options right off the table.
I get what you’re saying, but maybe the question should be, can you (via reasonable odds) do better than Fox, and if so, what is the timeline? Because if you can’t do it quickly, Sabonis is next, and you’re back to (at best) a 15% chance of getting lucky in the lottery.
I firmly believe that the problem with this roster is below / next to Sabonis and Fox, not above them.
I’ve heard many versions on this question: can you do better than Fox? Can you do better than Domas? Can you get a better coach than Brown? Can you get a better GM than Monte?
And I say; that’s a defeatist attitude. No offense intended.
Simply put, you can do better than Fox and we had the opportunity to do exactly that 6 seasons ago.
Could OKC do better than Westbrook, Paul George and Steven Adams?
If you act out of fear that you can’t do better, you won’t.
It’s not fear. Actually, the kneejerk reaction of moving him for magic beans is acting out of fear.
Is it kneejerk? IMO it’s common sense, and a weighing of risks vs reward.
The chance that you can quickly find guys to help improve this team are small, and then there’s the question how fast they will fit in and yield results.
The chances of getting guys who move the needle without completely mortgaging the future are slim, and even then there’s zero guarantee that Fox will stay.
And if Fox stays, does that give you a real chance at a championship? Or, if you just want a decent team to root for, that’s fine too, but then there isn’t much use to this discussion, I guess.
One team’s magic beans are another team’s Luka, SGA or Wemby. Do you need some luck in the draft? Of course. But so do you when you trade for an established player, as the DDR signing is showing us.
And when you look at draft odds & then draft results statistically, you realize that this too is a narrow, narrow needle to thread.
So the question remains, do you take the opportunity to build around the margins of the most talented duo that you’ve had in 20 years, or do you try to catch lightning in a bottle. I’m choosing the former, at least for now.
I am going to disagree with the premise:
Championship or Bust? Is that a reasonable goal? I don’t think so. And in Sacramento, Hell no. I am using this qualifier not to be thrown into the defeatist group, but a realistic goal is goodness, not greatness. How many teams are Championship contenders? Boston. Cleveland (this season, with the same roster as last season, but new coach). OKC (they are amazing, in that they are head scratcher overperforming, IMO).
To me: Miami, Minnesota, Denver, Dallas, Knicks, Milwaukee who all made the Conference Finals (or close in the case of NYK) in the last three seasons – I guess, maybe. Not the Lakers. Not the Warriors.
I want to have competitive professional basketball in Sacramento, playoff basketball level competitive is even better. This season isn’t living up to that, but the last two seasons have once, and almost the other -both years anomalies. (3rd in the West at 48 wins, 9 in the West 46 wins).
.500 ball at the least. Build on that.
Blow it up? Puh-leez. Vivek is still in charge. Who is he hiring, and who would want to be hired by him? Which GM? I can almost guarantee you that if McNair is canned, it’s Wes Welker first. And to be fair – as a fan, I just don’t know that you’ll find anyone better. That is a black box of guesswork for us fans. It’s agent interactions and asset management. And again, it’s Vivek Ranadive. He’s poison. Jimmy Dolan has New York City. He did acquire Scott Perry from Sac. ‘Nuff said.
Coaching? Not happening (they didn’t fire Luke Walton, they are NOT firing Mike Brown and his newly inked 3 yr/$30M deal). If you want to fantasize: That’s going to be Jay Triano for the rest of this season (the substitute teacher) or Scottie Brooks, or Frank Vogel or Terry Stotts, or Mark Jackson. IF that is next week – you are looking at a 3 or 4 year deal. If you wait until the Summer – pretty much same candidates because you have a veteran team, you don’t want a new rookie Head Coach.
Just my opinion – bolster the frontcourt somehow. ride out the season, don’t let the pain fester. Figure it the fudge out. The talent is there. Chisel don’t sledgehammer.
I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, and hope not to offend anyone – but Make Sacramento Good Again. (not great).
Wes Wilcox, not Wes Welker.
cough cough. Oh crap.
Yes – Wes Wilcox.
If you’re not playing play-off basketball, you’re not really competitive. You are mediocre or bad.
In a 15 team conference, 10 teams get a shot at the play-offs and 8 teams make it. If you can’t make the cut you’re simply not competitive.
Do you really get exited about a team fighting for the 10th spot? I don’t.
Doing better than Fox assumes Fox will continue to play for the Kings. He’s practically shouting that that’s only going to happen if the win/loss record drastically improves, which seems real unlikely.
They either need to be aggressive about dealing core pieces (Fox, Sabonis, Monk, Murray, DeRozan) for high level players or rebuild. Tinkering around with dealing Kevin Huerter and Trey Lyles just lowers the eventual trade you have to make for Fox as he approaches the inevitable trade demand or extension he won’t sign.
Good one.
Fox is not the bird in the hand. Fox is the bird that looks at all the crap in the nest and is on the verge of flying away.
I agree completely that anyone below Sabonis & Fox is tradeable. As well as Sabonis & Fox, if you are getting all-NBA talent (hopefully not in their mid 30s or older) in return.
How many guys in the NBA are capable of being the number 1 guy on a championship contender? I’d argue the number is less than 30, and that some teams have more than one. So should 15+ teams just be giving up and bottoming out?
Did the glory year Kings have a number 1 option on a championship contender? Webber? Bibby? Not sure either of those players were that guy. Those teams did well, got to the WCF and made the playoffs many times with a solid chance of reaching the finals.
And it wasn’t long ago people said Tatum/Brown couldn’t win a title together and the Celtics needed to break it up.
And Jokic didn’t have the game to be the man. Or Kawhi. And so on.
LOL. At age 21, Tatum led the Celtics to the Eastern Conference finals, with Daniel Theiss as starting center.
Fox has done nothing, even with a strong supporting cast.
apples to oranges
Have to agree with Smits on this thread.
It feels like a large subset of fans just want to believe that Fox and as an extension Domas can lead us to the promised land. Between them they have over 15 years of experience in the NBA with no playoff success to show for it. So, to try and compare someone like Tatum or JBrown to our big 2 is just not an apt comparison.
It seems like fans are worried we’ll go back to being a cellar dweller if we trade Fox and/or Domas, well the alternative is to be mediocre and never have a chance at a title. At least if you bottom out there is hope to build a team with young assets and picks that can one day become a contender.
Once Fox signs the next contract with us, the writing is on the wall.
I believe that Sabonis & Fox can lead a team of fun, compelling, winning basketball, and we don’t have to go back too far to find it.
I believe that fun, compelling, winning basketball has been the exception in Sacramento and not the rule.
I believe that the road back to fun, compelling, winning basketball is statistically more viable by building around Sabonis and Fox than by blowing it up and starting from scratch.
And that’s where some fans differ from others. Some want to build a legit championship contender and some are content with a compelling, winning basketball team. To each their own.
Agree 100%. I am in the compete for a championship group. Just because we have been fans of the kings for the last 40 years and not the Lakers or Celtics does not mean we can’t have that standard. It’s insulting when you hear media and or fans suggesting that fans of historically bad teams should be content with making the playoffs or simply being competitive.
Good thing no one here is really saying that. No one is saying to “settle.” But you have to climb the mountain to get to the top. I’d rather start from on the mountain than from the bottom of it.
Pretty sure there were almost no Utah Jazz fans back in the day that thought “Stockton and Malone haven’t won a title, it’s been 4 years. They need to rebuild.”
It takes time to get good and sustain winning. I would take what the Stockton/Malone Jazz had in a freaking heartbeat. Consistent winning with a chance at WCF and Finals for nearly two decades.
the nba has changed so much since the 90s. I’m not just talking play, but team building. The jazz coulda been better, in those days, if they tried to pay for a center. I don’t wanna be the Stockton/malone jazz just getting my heart ripped out. I want a championship in my lifetime.
Also, the issues here are not fan expectation problems. Not. Even. Close.
With the caveat being that you can’t achieve the latter without first achieving the former.
So it’s not just a function of being content. Common sense and logic is also at play here.
This turns on a dime if/when Fox wants out. But I still think it is a more realistic road to fix this with than without him.
The Lakers have sucked at times with LeBron & AD when the supporting cast does not do their job. That’s what I see right now with the Kings. It’s not Donas and/or Fox. It’s the collective balance (and imbalance) of the roster.
The lakers are stuck where we are as well. No meaningful way to improve.
I’ll say it again, I don’t get the comparisons of duos like Tatum/Brown and LBJ/AD to Fox/Ox, those are just not apt comparisons. Fox/Ox have done nothing in their careers to be even mentioned with those other 4 who have been to countless playoffs, Finals, and won championships.
Ya 2022-23 was fun, but idk that getting knocked out in the 1st round will get old. I’d rather become championship contender. That means give me the rockets/okc trove of picks. In honesty, it didn’t take either of them long to get where we are right now. We basically have gotten passed by with okc, Houston, Orlando and very soon to be San Antonio. In fact, all those teams have been good, then bad, and good again while outside 22-23 we’ve been the Cleveland Browns of basketball.
Fox is gone, I don’t know why it is so hard for people to accept it. The Kings need to get what they can before it is too late.
Even if Fox stayed, he will never defend well, never shoot the 3 well and remain a mediocre distributor. He’s a ball dominant player who can’t lead a team to playoff success.
Leaders in Steals + Blocks + Drive Stops
Dyson Daniels 203
De’Aaron Fox 153
Jaden McDaniels 144
Victor Wembanyama 141
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 133
Anthony Davis 133
Mikal Bridges 132
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 129
Keegan Murray 129
OG Anunoby 129
Win loss record?
“with Daniel Theiss as starting center” and with Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart, Kemba Walker, and several other solid role players.
And yet even after that people argued that Tatum and Brown could not lead the Celtics to a title and that the Celtics should trade one of them, which was my point.
It’s funny how the “national media is dumb”-mantra only applies to the Kings and narratives that don’t support our takes.
Jaylen Brown was only 23 and his 4th year in the league, Smart was shooting under .400 from the field, Hayward was damaged and only played 5 out of 17 games in the play-offs, and Walker was an inefficient chucker.
Those solid role playes were led by Brad Wanamaker’s 4.9 points in the play-offs.
What these guys did was impressive, given their age and supporting cast. And if you want to squint really hard and make a comparison between them and Fox and Sabonis, be my guest.
Tatum is younger than Fox and both he and Brown have never missed the playoffs. Fox is in his 8th year with the Kings without a single playoff series win. Your point is apples and oranges.
I guess conferences and supporting casts and markets don’t matter.
You can die on the comparing Tatum/Brown to Fox/Ox hill all you want, it still makes no sense.
And Fox and Tatum were in the same draft, look at what Tatum has accomplished when it comes to winning compared to Fox.
Tatum has been to 5 ECFs and 2 Finals and won one whilst Fox has never won a playoff series.
But keep comparing the two.
Amazed that people seem to actually believe Fox is comparable to Tatum. Maybe Sabonis and Jokic next?
The Kings don’t have the choice of just continuing with the same core or giving up and bottoming out. This all depends on Fox and what he wants. He wants to be on a team that can at least be a fringe championship contender. The Kings are not that right now and I don’t see any moves that will vault them up to one. Therefore, the team should be proactive and trade Fox now for a haul. Bottoming out isn’t the Kings choice. It’s Fox’s unfortunately.
No, but they probably shouldn’t ride the same core for 3 years with no meaningful results.
Options 3 or 4 is common sense. Fox says he wants to contend, a max/supermax will not cut it for him to stay with a mediocre team at best. He is gone either way?
Option #5 – Stand pat and send me to the lottery!
Fox is gone.
There is no reason to question if a contender can be built around Fox. If it can or cannot be done it will not be happening here.
Mcnair needs to maintain control of this team and start working deals for Fox. Rich Paul has asserted himself and that is not good for the current team currently or the future of the team. Get something for Fox that benefits the Kings. If Fox does not like it he can have a meeting with Rich Paul.
Don’t get used, abused, and embarrassed by a wanna be star and his agent.
I had been a fan of option #1 since summer, but I now don’t think any fringe addition like a John Collins, Jerami Grant, or whoever is going to move the needle all that much. Trading what little depth the Kings have for marginally better depth isn’t going to get this team to play over .600 ball to match last seasons record.
I also really don’t like #2. It would Keegan and more to get an impactful player, who is likely coming in ona big contract. That’s going all in on a team that you just shouldn’t go all in on.
From all that, and as each game passes, I’m leaning to #3. Fox could bring in a ton in return without completely giving up. I’m also in favor of potentially trading DDR, as I just don’t think his game fits.
Move Fox and pick up a team point guard instead of a stat stuffer then Demar will be amazing. Despite what Fox said when recruiting Derozan it is clear Fox has no idea how to play with other scoring guards.
“team point guard”. Who are some that you would thing could be considered?
Morant, Haliburton, Paul, Brunson, Young, the list is long.
Fox is a good individual player. He is not going to make the other players on the floor better. He has spent his entire career being “the man” on a losing team.
Okay, now go trade for one of those guys. How does that happen for the Kings?
Monte and Vivek’s problem. Other teams have successfully built a roster many times.
I like the idea of getting a really good four and decent point guard for Fox. Let Fox stuff the stats somewhere else.
Hard pass. I look at okc model and say copy/paste. Smaller market than sac and they will probably be in the finals and they still have a lot of picks which when they don’t like they keep flipping for more future picks.
You don’t have to. See my comment above. If you don’tbelieve me check him out. Read his stats. Look at videos that show what I’m talking about. Do some homework.
“Do some homework”? Like I don’t look at various trade scenarios throughout the day.
Castle shoots 37% from the field, 26% from 3. Sure he is a solid defender and get others involved. But non shooting players are hard to build around, just like the Kings have been struggling with all season.
Maybe you need to do some homework.
If you trade Fox to the Spurs you would get a really good point guard in Stephan Castle. IMO not only good but a potential star. At 6’6″ and can really defend and along with Carter who IMO will also be really good you have two interchangeable point guards. What more would you ask for? Just to let you know the league grade so far this year for Castle is an A plus.
He has the downside of not being a good shooter, which has plagued this team all season.
Then why did the league just gave him an A plus so far this year?
And why are the Spurs rising up not down. He is scoring maybe not by the 3. You can be a really effective point guard by not shooting the 3. He has all the other tools not to be but already has. He would make the other 4 who play with him better even to the point of shooting the 3. IMO as a coach I would rather have a really good point guard that a really good center anytime. I didn’t have to worry because I had both most of my career but that’s another story. If Castle were to be the Kings point guard along with Sabonis they would be blessed to have both too.
The same fans who want to trade what little assets we have left for sideways moves like Collins, J Grant etc. are the same fans that were cool with giving up a pick swap in the DDR trade. It’s just bad asset management, especially when the pick swap is conducted 7 years out with a team that has the best asset in the whole NBA who’s only in year 2 of his career.
Tbf, players Wemby’s size are historically injury plagued. (Ralph Sampson, Kristaps Porzingis, Joel Embiid, etc..) Wemby is obviously very good now but he might be on load management or even injured in 2031 and the swap might not convey at all or if it does, only a few spots back. It’s so far in the future that it’s hard to know.
I guess we will just ignore Hakeem, Shaq, Russell and well I can go on and on with the list of great bigs without injury woes.
Let me be more specific. Many players 7’3” or taller like Victor (the super tall) have had their career cut short by injury.
Coping really hard on this take and excusing a dumb move by MM.
Since the swap is so far in the future I guess it doesn’t matter, so let’s trade all our future picks and swaps for players that may help us win now.
I’m not saying you have to trade everything but you do have to take risks in order to get something. Trades ain’t free. Of course Monte’s move could come back to bite him. It also couldn’t. Nobody knows. You can feel free to think the move is terrible and I can think it’s fine and we can both be right at the moment.
I agree with you and #3. If you trade Fox rightfully so you get younger established players in return. You don’t blow it up but still continue to shoot for the playoffs. I to would try and trade DDR. He doesn’t fit the Kings timeline. I’m not sure what team would want him. Not my job but Monte’s. GO KINGS! GO MONTE!
I think DeMar should be looked at to be traded. 30 games in and the fit isn’t working (whether skill set or coaching not being able to integrate properly).
Send him and Huerter to the Nets for Cam, DFS, Milton. More length on the wing, good shooting, and pick up Milton to help with the bench unit for creating/making shots a bit.
That trio gives the Kings more of they needs, shooting and defense on the wing. Maybe the roster would synergize better by making the move. All I know is that the current roster is plagued by poor shooting and by perimeter defense. Send those two culprits out and see what happens.
There is too much good talent for me to feel comfortable with blowing it all up. And I don’t think Vivek will ever let that happen. Try something like this and see what happens. If Fox doesn’t like it and wants out, then trade him in the offseason and get what you can for him.
The Nets are tanking and therefore have no use for an old vet like DDR, you would have to attach a future first or pick swap in the proposed trade. Which to me is a big no but McGenius is probably willing to do anything right now to save his job.
I could see the Nets hanging on to him this season and trying to flip him this summer or before the deadline the following season.
It’s the pick that would most likely be attached that the Nets would want. Its all speculation at this point, and I like to theorize ways to improve the roster.
Blowing it up and rebuilding is easier said than done.
Full tear down isn’t easy or guaranteed in any way.
Worst case scenario you win 25-35 games next several years.
Best case scenario with this group is 40-45 wins next few years with a first round playoff loss ceiling. There are too few assets and too little talent for anything higher.
If this core had a 10% chance to reach the WCF I’d be very hesitant about a full blow up. But this team has 0% chance of reaching WCF and about 1-2% chance of reaching the 2nd round even if a trade for Cam Johnson is made.
The first thing any GM must be able to do is honestly evaluate his own teams roster.
How would we know? We’ve tried it what once in 2007?
I vote option 4. Blow everything up and rebuild. Think of what OKC did or what the Celtics did a while ago – trade away all the best players for a hoard of picks and talent, then tank the season, gunning for a top 5 pick. This is the right way to rebuild. The worst way is to trade away one player while hanging onto others as they age. The best teams grow together and play within a window of their primes for championships.
Think of what Detroit & Portland & Utah did a while ago, among others. Hell, look at Philly.
Look at the odds of landing a top pick. Then look at the odds of landing a franchise altering player. Then look at our track record. It’s not pretty.
This is not to say that the current situation is tenable. It is not. But the solution may be more marginal than extreme.
If you blow it up even if you win the lottery one player yet to play a single NBA game won’t even be close for you to win a championshi/p let alone get to the playoffs. Terrible gamble.
This is why it takes multiple years and setting the foundation while they are young. Look how long it took curry to even get to the playoffs.
Don’t need a top pick. If you take away Lebron teams last 10 years. None of the finals teams had top picks. Minus 2021 Phoenix who had ayton. Don’t think any of us are confusing him being the guy on that team though. Portland and Utah are on year 2 of the rebuild so horrible examples imo. Detroit is fair for sure; however, a lot of that was coaching incompetence with Casey. They also have a lot of talent from these drafts it just doesn’t really fit together.
Fox has (effectively) said that he’s leaving unless the Kings become a contender. The question is not “Can we do better than Fox?” The question is “Can we build a contender before Fox forces his way out?” This comes down to:
Can you build a contender by dealing Kevin Huerter, Trey Lyles, Keon Ellis and a future first?
No. I can’t imagine thinking that the problem with this team is at the back end of the rotation.
Can you build a contender by dealing some combination of Sabonis, Monk, Murray, DeRozan and picks?
Maybe. But this front office would make one move, and if it didn’t work, would be too afraid to make another one until Fox’s value was minimized or he demanded a trade.
I don’t think option #1 is in any way viable. Option #2 might be, but the timeline has to be this season. If you make a move now (and you pretty much have to) you evaluate it now. None of this “Oh, they haven’t gone through training camp” excuse while you wait around for Fox to force a trade. If you make a move and it fails, you have to deal Fox sooner rather than later.
Be aggressive or rebuild. Tinkering around or doing nothing (hallmarks of this front office) are the worst possible options at this point.
Maybe the market for basketball in California has been saturated and thats why the Kings keep on pulling the shortest straw. It has been difficult to find a team that is willing to do business with the Kings for two decades. I am still wondering what was the better deal that Vlade had on the table before trading for Buddy Hield.
Also it is really unhealthy to internalize losing, incompetence and bad characters for a great portion of ones life. Merry xmas for all you guys it has been nice reading all these pieces and conversations (also in sactownroyalty). I learned a good portion of my English from these blogs.
To answer the “better deal” question, the Kings were supposed to receive 1 more first round pick in the DeMarcus Cousins trade until his agent called New Orleans and told them he wouldn’t re-sign with the team (in order to try and preserve Cousins’ ability to sign a supermax.) The Pelicans proceeded to remove 1 first round draft pick from the deal.
That was two days before though.
Spitballing here: would the hornets give us La Melo Ball and a couple of picks for Fox?
That would scare me spitless.
I appreciate all the “takes” here. I’m not sure my take will be any better, but thought I’d share. I’ve said before that my basketball expertise does not match most on this board, but I have many years of experience leading people in my career. And my first take is the Mike Brown needs to go. Yes, his rotations are atrocious, but his big crime is spending the last two weeks basicly blaming his employees for the outcomes. There is no world where this is a winning strategy-sure, maybe call them out once, but he’s made it a habit now, and he’s unlikely to ever get them back. I know, Vivek won’t do it, but short of complete overall of the players, with Brown here, we are where we are. And…contrary to most here…I think…I think Brown overcoaches, and he does it publicly. I think he’s gotten into the heads of Keon, Murrey, and Kevin. He has them thinking WAY to much, which takes the joy out of the game for them. But leaders blaming the employees for the results is a key mark of a horrible leader. This is not okay.
That said, here’s what I’d do with the roster:
-somehow, somewhere, find a servicable big/wing, but try to do it without giving up future assets. That means Heurter, DDR or possibly Devin Carter, who is a first round pick. And filler, though I wouldn’t give up Keon. He plays WAY above his cost. DFS from the Nets? His 3pt percentage would certainly be helpful….
-Send DDR to the bench if you can’t trade him. With another servicable big/wing, you could start them or Lyles. Honestly, I sort of feel Lyles and Murrey are almost untouchable in this scenario. We can’t afford to give up another wing/big just to get another one.
-Start Keon, moving Monk back to the bench. DDR and Monk become the bench scorers, and gives DDR more space to do his thing. The issue with DDR is that he needs pretty much the same space that Fox and Sabonis live in, and he just doesn’t play fast. Oh, and he’s a horrible defender. Almost as unwatchable as Kevin on that side of floor.
In the end, options 1 and 3 above are not mutually exclusive. Make a move now, see if it works, and if it doesn’t, then trade Fox over the summer. Just don’t let the suspense go on for too long.
I thinking moving DDR and Huerter for better wimg defenders would do wonders for the roster.
I agree. Now Monte needs to find a team that will take him and his contract. Good luck. If he can’t then he needs to come off the bench.
We have a winner: #3. It’s good team building and good franchise politics, meaning it’s possible and not a pleasant pipe dream. Vivek is not going with #4 and he’s not dumping Monte and Mike. Fox is great fun to watch when he’s on, but he’s a stats guy and he’s out of here anyway. You don’t hire Klutch to stay here. So he’s the one to deal. And you may not get an All Star for him. The reality is that neither Fox or Sabonis is a true #1 guy. We may have told ourselves that two years ago, but events have proven otherwise. If Murray is in the right spot, with his range and size, maybe he’s a #1 guy. We’ve seen flashes of it. Sabonis is such a good #2, #3 guy that I’d hate to lose him, and he might be hard to move anyway. Of course, maybe Fox will be too. I don’t know why Pop would want him. At this point, I don’t think it matters. And I still think DeRozan to the Increasingly Desperate Lakers for the DeAngelo Russell expiring is a winner. Make the moves Monte! One-year tank! Remember the ‘96-97 Spurs!
Pop would welcome Fox with open arms. Who wouldn’t? Paring Fox with Wemby would be a nightmare for other teams.
PS That’s why the Spurs are position themselves to make the trade if it comes available. They want first dibs. This also could be a blessing for the Kings if it comes down to working a deal. Goes both ways if Monte is smart enough and I think he is.
First off, I wouldn’t say our roster is as good as the 96-97 spurs. It’s finish, but we don’t have a David Robinson talent. Second, and probably most important, I like cooper Flagg, but he is no Tim Duncan level talent. Lastly, the nba has wayyyyy more talent now than in that weak era of talent from 99-2007. It’s well documented about how those paying the young guys in the 90s destroyed a lot of their careers young, as well as, the notorious weak 2000 draft were some of the reasons why we had all star years by the likes of Brad miller and Jamaal magloire. We are more close to an era of talent like the late 80s early 90s than post expansion/ talent deplete era of the 2nd Jordan 3peat and early 2000s
interesting discussion about this on the Game Theory Podcast with Sam Vecenie today. it’s about 40 minutes.
That was an interesting listen. They mentioned trading for Reed Shepherd, Cam Whitmore, Steven Adams and Jeff Green contracts, plus a few picks. That might be fine when spun in a way they that Reed was a #3 pick last year and Whitmore the 20th pick in the prior year.
I think it would be okay for a soft reset and to keep trying to rebuild. They really need to see if DeMar van integrate better. If not, je needs to be the next one to go.
Honest question to the blow it up folks: Other than PG13 for SGA, can anyone list a trade or trades where an All-NBA level talent was traded for picks & prospects that ultimately resulted in an All-NBA level player? There must be other examples, but I’m sure not coming up with any.
Domantas Sabonis for Tyrese Haliburton.
Yes, that is probably the one and the Pacers got Siakim since Hali and Turner weren’t enough .
Except that neither of those guys were considered A-listers at the time of the trade.
Given Hali’s struggles and his inability (to this point) to find that next level, who is the “winner” of that trade now? Both? Neither?
Sabonis was a two time All Star when the trade went down, and Tyrese was more a (very good) prospect than anything else. They’ve both since made the All-NBA team, so to me, it meets the criteria.
Pretty clearly the Pacers won that deal. They’ve made the Eastern Conference Finals. The Pacers barely have a better record than the Kings this year, but Tyrese shot 25% from three in October, 37% in November and is at 39% in December, so from a stats perspective, he’s close to where he was. His playoff stats look pretty good, and I don’t think it was realistic to expect that team to beat the Celtics. I see Tyrese as a guy who scores efficiently and makes people around him better, not a scoring force that carries a team. (Fox is more the latter than the former.)
I don’t know what the fans are saying in Indiana, and certainly their record is worse than it probably should be so far, but I wouldn’t be worried about the Pacers or Haliburton. They’re almost certainly at least a top 6 team in the (weak) east, and probably better, and they’ve proven anything can happen in the playoffs in that conference.
The Kings on the other hand, have topped out at losing in the first round and are spiraling into looking hopeless and not even making the play-in with both Fox and Sabonis healthy. They’re looking pretty solidly like the 12th best team in the West at this point, and the Spurs just ahead of them are younger and have a lot of assets to improve. Certainly, Sabonis (and Fox) are the least to blame for the Kings mess. But as good as Sabonis has been individually, it’s hard to argue the Kings won the deal with how bad the team is.
So the Pacers, 1.5 games ahead of the Kings right now, have a bright future, while the Kings have peaked and are doomed. /Shrugs.
Pacers have been relevant in the last twenty years. Pacers are putting it together and just slaughtered the Kings. Pacers likely are a top six team in the East this season.
Key point here is the geography. Put ‘em in the West & I guess we yell “blow it up!” But they’re in the East, so they’re putting it together. /Shrugs again.
Key point here is that no matter where they are in the galaxy they are far better than the Kings and on an upward trajectory.
Milwaukee and Boston have fake NBA Championships.
Kind of hard to strut out that argumenty when this West team just got kicked in the teeth at home in a must-win game by these weak East wussies, no?
Not really, unless you think a small subset of games wipes out decades of conference imbalance. And I know you don’t, Rik.
Yes, you are right, of course.
i just think this “oh but look how weak the Eastern Conference is”-argument is as weak as the Eastern Conference.
The top is slimmer, but they have very good teams at the top that won championships.
Some people seem to think that if the Kings were playing in the East they’d be a powerhouse. I personally can’t subscribe to that.
They would get to the play in, win the play in, then be swept in the first round.
So geographically speaking the Kings are all world champions is the geographical limit is a three block radius around G1 Center.
We need to be realistic about the radius because there are a couple of college and high school teams close that can beat them.
I have gauged from the tenor of your responses that you would rather win the internet than take part in an earnest discussion. Therefore, I will pronounce you King of the internet and move on. Congratulations, and long may you rule.
Always appreciate a good conversation. The Kingdom of the same Kings for the last twenty years but also complain about the Kings is a weak Kingdom.
Yes, the Pacers do have a brighter future. Looking beyond the current standings, no one would be surprised to see Indiana get to the second round of the playoffs. They made the conference finals last season, which the Kings haven’t done in decades.
It would take an enormous shift for the Kings to even get to the first round of the playoffs and a near act of God for them to win a playoff series.
Domas certainly holds up his end of the bargain, night in and night out, as an individual player. None of this is his fault, but you can’t say you won a trade when the other team is making deep playoff runs and you’re healthy and on pace to miss the play-in.
And the Kings are on a countdown until Fox forces his way out. As a wise man once said, tick, tick, tick…
Every minute that passes is one more minute closer to the moment that Rich Paul sells this team out for absolutely nothing.
Monte and Vivek must see this reality and do something to maintain relevance in this situation.
Haliburton struggled all the way to the All Star Game, All NBA, deep into the playoffs, and to the National Team.
The guy clearly is not doing much with his career.
Talking about his struggles this season. His lone struggle last season was staying healthy, which is not to be ignored. Domas logged 700 more minutes than Hali last year. Basically played about 25% more than Hali.
Hurt, recovered, then straight into a deep playoff run and a gold medal.
He played more post season minutes than any Kings player in the last 22 years.
Minutes played is not really the best comparison of success. Domas played 700 more minutes for no reason apparently.
The post season canard is such small sample size nonsense, and again, geographically driven.
And you have to be on the floor to help your team. 700 minutes is not an insignificant difference. It’s roughly 25%.
You want individual statistics and the team to stay the same. I prefer wins and play off runs.