Trey Lyles was one of the biggest surprises of the post-trade deadline Kings season. At the time of the trade, in which Lyles was part of a return package for Marvin Bagley, Lyles was considered a serviceable-if-unspectacular journeyman who made the salaries work. And while serviceable-if-unspectacular could still be an apt way to describe his contributions to the Kings, I often found myself watching games and noting that Lyles was helping the Kings a lot more than he was hurting them.
Sometimes as a Kings fan it’s the little things you appreciate.
Lyles’ stat line with the Kings isn’t terribly exciting. 10.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 1.3 AST, with a respectable 36.5% from three on 2.6 attempts per game. Nothing exciting, but solid production. And the type of production I’d be really happy with from a backup big man next season. The Kings have a team option for keep Lyles next year for $2.6 million, and it feels like an easy decision to keep him at that price.
My one concern is the role the Kings ask him to play next year. I don’t want this to end up in a situation like Maurice Harkless where the Kings expect Lyles to be more than he is. He’s a good backup big man on a good contract, the Kings just can’t afford to convince themselves that he should be a starter for a team trying to make the playoffs next year.
Good luck Greg. 🙂
We all know it’s going to happen, but it doesn’t get much worse than Harkless starting 20+ games lol
How long have you been a Kings fan?
It can always get worse.
My whole 33 years of life unfortunately lol.
Exactly this. He’s like a Lawrence Funderburk kind of guy. And that kind of guy plays an important roll on a playoff contending team. Now we just need to find a Chris Webber. to start at PF.
joking not joking.
in complete seriousness, if Lyles isn’t kept around for that price it’s malpractice and I would call that a failure by our GM. Now if he is packaged with Holmes or barns to get a starting caliber PF then I’m cool with that.
I think you are spot on – I think Lyles was valuable to us because he filled a type of role that we have lacked – a legitimate, long SF/PF who can shoot, slide his feet on the perimeter, and provide some additional resistance around the hoop.
It’s a role that Bjelica and Lyles have both filled better than anyone else we have on the roster (Barnes doesn’t really fill it), but both are probably on the lower end of that player archetype. On the one hand, their impact shows how badly we need that type of player, but neither was a long-term answer.
And I think McNair knows this, we saw him try to trade Bagley for both Bey and John Collins (and rightly get rebuffed by their teams). I think he probably would have drafted Franz Wagner if he had lasted one more pick (even if not, we reportedly had interest in him). And it’s not a surprise, because most winning teams have this player archetype.
It will be interesting to see what McNair does this summer. If we jump in the draft, Smith or Banchero could fill this role to various degrees. If we don’t jump or acquire another pick – there are some players like Murray, Eason, Sochan, etc. who could potentially fill this role longer term. But if we still want to make the playoffs this year, we may need to pursue another, more established option.
With that said, Lyles makes a good, cheap veteran backup who can play some lower end rotational minutes and help out in a bigger role in case of an injury.
Exactly. A well priced competent reserve who can soak up minutes if necessary. In the past this is the type of player the Kings way overpaid for, or was a very borderline NBA player.
I mean fine, at that price, it’s fine. I hope Lyles doesn’t play much though. The starter and backup mins should come down to a competition between FA/rookie/Metu
The scary part is, he’s the de facto starting PF unless major changes/additions are made this summer.
If he’s starting next year for the Kings a PF, they are fucked. If he’s the on the low end of the 8 man rotation there may be hope. He’s a cheap contract and worthy of about 12-15 minutes on a solid team.
There’s a long ways to go, Monte.
Trey Lyles is entering a Kings tradition like no other, taking a guy that can do a little of C and then being expected to do a lot of A.
He is fine. He also won’t ever be more than he is, regardless of the roster deficiencies of the Kings’ roster.
Looks like people have a pretty good feel for Lyles. No reason not to pick up that option. Like most Kings players, just don’t expect him to be something he isn’t. He’s a perfectly cromulent 5th big at that price.
If Lyles is a 10-15 minute backup fine . I do think he is more solid and better than Metu .
Metu is improving. He’s the potential to be a solid starter. Hopeful, Kings retain both.
As Rob Hessing is fond of saying his contract is good to value. Well priced, worth picking up. I paid a good deal of attention to Lyles as the season wore down not because he was great but because he didn’t make many mistakes, played within himself and knew his role. I also think he’s got some grit which IMO is something this team is sorely lacking. He would scrap for boards and defended in the paint.
I am not a Metu fan and if it comes down to picking one, I hope Monte picks Lyles
Im going to keep saying this, Barnes and Holmes both need to be traded. Barnes has an expiring contract and if he’s on the roster next year it’s only for one season because he’s leaving when his contract is up. Monte MUST get a return for him this summer that helps the team win next season and beyond. Otherwise the kings just lost an asset that many teams want and they’d lose him for NOTHING! That can not happen. If you keep Barnes this summer you would 100% need to trade him at the allstar break and then you’re breaking up a starting lineup that was established and that you want and (the front office) expects to be in the playoff picture. Basically, keeping Barnes past this summer makes NO SENSE TO ME. Uh oh, I said “makes sense” when talking about the Kings front office. Oh god, we’re screwed.
The financial space the Holmes contract frees up for an impact player at the PF or SF/SG spot is important.
IF… The kings actually want to make the playoffs.
I repeat, these two players being traded this summer is a MUST!!!
I would trade Barnes and our 2023 first round pick to the Celtics for Marcus Smart and Grant Williams. Smart can start with Fox leaving Mitchell and Divincenso to play together. Smart is one of the best defenders in the league and is only 28. Grant Williams can play backup PF. He shoots over 40% from three and is a very good defender.
Who plays point guard for the Celts ? No chance they move Smart for Barnes but agree he would be terrific for Kings. Celts get worse .
Derrick White, Payton Pritchard.a trade or a FA. I really like Tyrus Jones. The reason I was trading Barnes to the Celtics because in the last two tears they really want him as their starting SF or PF.
If the Celtics would do it I wouldn’t say no to that deal.
regardless, that’s the kind of deal that needs to be made if we actually want to make the playoffs. Barnes and a 2023 first round pick = a huge upgrade in talent for this team. If that talent plays SG, SF or PF it’s a win and a big step to actually having a chance to make the playoffs.
Barnes and 2023 FRDP for DPOY is a non starter.
I love HB in a respectable, manly way…great guy, but if we discount off night’s production at the end of the season because the schedule was “Pete Chilcutt” soft then why did HB disappear. Should have gotten fat. Didn’t. Tired, checked out, apathetic or just sick of losing? No matter a bad look for a locker room leader, high bbiq guy. No hate. Just think he wants to move on way more than any of us want him to move on. I yield back.
Making him with his veteran status play when you rested your other main guys and punted the season was not a good look, IMO.
I’m spitballing, but I get the feeling that Monte is of the Morey school of seeing players as assets, not as persons. The way several players complained about how they were treated wen they were let go seems to support that spitball.
OT:
Dear Monty,
Villanova coach is not returning.
Please make a (W)right decision when you search for a coach.
Thank u.
Sonny
I didn’t know Wright wasn’t coming back. He definitely needs to be considered as the Kings next head coach.
While almost nothing is impossible, for a guy that has spent his entire career basically on the East Coast, already was making 6+ million a year…the idea he is “retiring” and coming to coach the Kings when he would likely have many other NBA opportunities is extremely wishful thinking at the best, even IF they were offering him 10+ million a year.
Isn’t it because he is retiring? Is he stepping away from coaching or just as coach of Villanova?
Would love to have Wright in Sacramento, but it occurred to me that Villanova is in Philadelphia, as are the 76ers, and Doc Rivers. Daryl Morey is also there.
Wright could become an NBA coach with a great roster, and not even need to move. That would be tempting to anyone.
I wouldn’t place too much hope or emphasis on a coach turning this around. Keep in mind George Karl went 21 straight seasons without a losing record and had three seasons with over 60 wins before coming to the Kings where he had a 33 win season. If I was going to make a coaching move I would go for something way out of the box and consider someone like Randy Bennett from St. Mary’s who turned around an awful program and seems to get the most out of his roster. Someone that’s turned around a total shit show and gets the most out of his players are two features very applicable for a new Kings coach.
I’m going to take a wild guess and suggest that you may be a St. Mary’s graduate. Otherwise the idea of elevating the coach of what is essentially a Division II program that plays Gonzaga twice a year to the NBA would seem, ah, fanciful.
You are so wrong about that program. They just made the tournament again and won their first game. You should go back and do some research before commenting. Take a look at the shape that program was in before Bennett was hired. Ask Patty Mills about Bennet.
Btw I have undergraduate degree from Sac State and masters from Cal. but I attended St. Mary’s games when I lived in Orinda. I was hoping my son could play basketball there but wasn’t at that level and ended up at a true division 2 program which is a big drop off from St. Mary’s.
I certainly agree that St. Mary’s is a good program, particularly in the context in which it exists. I’m skeptical that coaching athletes who don’t get to the NBA is adequate preparation to coach NBA players.
I’m sure your coach is a good one, and it’s certainly possible that he could make that jump and be successful. I would dump a lot of money into betting against it, though, particularly in Sacramento.
I know Wright is a long shot to say the least. It sure is a least a phone call or two. Who knows it might be a fit.
Agreed! You offer Wright the moon and sun, and if he says no, that’s how it is. I’d imagine that McNair and a lot of other GMs are going to be making some outstanding offers to lure JW.
Personally I don’t think a coach will make a significant difference hence my point about George Karl. I think it’s likely we get a NBA retread like Mark Jackson or Terry Stotts and after one season the blog will be calling for their heads. I’m far more interested in getting a roster than a coach but your point about a college coach moving to the NBA is not without merit.
Question; how do you think the Kings stack up talentwise against a team like the Clippers, who were without Kahwi and with George only playing 31 games?
How does Fox stack up vs Reggie Jackson? Barnes vs Morris? Holmes vs Zubac?
The Clips won 42 games. The Kings 30. In a year that our GM tagged play-offs as the target.
The Clippers with KL and George are on another planet compared to the Kings. The 42 wins is a product of injuries. As for your comparisons, Fox is better than Jackson, Barnes is better than Morris and Zubac is a little better than Holmes.
Again, KL didn’t play and PG only 31 games.
So how do you describe the disparity in wins, when Sacramento had the more talented players?
Could it be coaching?
They have much more overall talent. You compared three players not the overall roster. Sacramento did not have more talented players.
Stingers Up
george Karl was a shell of himself when in sacramento. And he shot himself in the foot when he Went out of his lane. I agree with all you said but the George Karl example doesn’t fly.
Lyles is twenty-six, and the highest MPG he’s had was the 22.8 he had in his time in Sacramento. If you look at his time in the NBA each season, his per36 numbers are actually quite good. Barring a trade package, Lyles will undoubtedly be on the roster in October, and I’m not as convinced as most that he can’t be a solid starter, if that’s how things play out.
Assuming no FA signing or trade is made to get an upgrade at PF, and we don’t get Jabari Smith, I wouldn’t be shocked if Lyles begins the season as the starter. There are some pretty nice PF prospects in the draft outside of Smith, but I don’t think that any of them other than Banchero are guys you want to throw into the water as starters out of the gate.
As ever, too much unknown still out there to even take a stab on how it’ll play out.
All true but let’s not go crazy about Lyles. He’s a solid bench player at best and not one who will make a significant difference.
It’s not that I don’t say crazy things, but can you show me the part where I did that here? I suggested that Lyles might do well as a starter/or with starter minutes, and since he’s never had that opportunity, and based on his per 36, it doesn’t seem remotely impossible.
His rookie season in Utah, he was behind Derrick Favors, who was good for 16.4/8.1/1.5 blocks per game. In Denver, he’s behind Millsap & Faried. In San Antonio, he’s behind LMA, who was still playing well.
The question, “well, if he has starter potential, why didn’t he ever break through?” is certainly fair. It could be about the rosters, the coaches, or maybe that Lyles just never showed that he could do it. All I’m suggesting is that he plays a very sound and skilled kind of basketball, and in Sacramento, as with his other stops, he is productive when he plays.
I don’t know if Lyles can maintain that lever with 30-35 minutes per game, but that’s only because I have no usable data set to prove or disprove it. The data we do have strongly suggests that with that kind of burn, he’d produce. No guarantees, obviously.
Decent points and crazy may be a bit strong. I think we all agree for $2.6 million let’s keep him another year but I just don’t see him as as impactful starter. I’m okay with him but I can’t stomach watching a losing team with veterans like Holiday, Harkless and others who have no chance of getting better. I want to go young and clean house and rebuild this from the ground up. Marginal changes will not make a difference and prolong the agony.
No argument here, but opportunities for significant changes can be tough to come by, particularly in Sacramento. I’m definitely not saying that I don’t want to try and get a better player at PF, but if upgrades can be made at the wing, and more shooting is added, Lyles isn’t a bad option as a starter.
As ever, getting better players is ninety percent of it. A good draft, a trade or two, and getting a guy like Portis in free agency would likely make an immediate positive difference.
(I really hope Portis doesn’t price himself out of our range, but that’s what I expect.)
I think Keegan Murray could be a really good fit along side Sabonis.
I do as well but doubt he falls to us if we select 7th in the draft. Those meaningless wins to end the season hurt. I’m high on Murray and Mathurin but doubt either fall to 7.
Like every draft, there is always someone who slips. Pretty sure one of Griffin, Mathurin, Murray will be available at 7.
Probably Griffin or Mathurin. If we move up ahead of the Pacers then we have a good chance to draft Murray.
I’m fine with Griffin or Mathurin at 7. Assuming Murray does go to the Pacers at 6.
I think we have a better chace in gettng Mathurin than Murray unless for some odd reason we draft ahead of the Pacers who really like Murray and draft #6.
When you watch playoff basketball it brings to light just how far away the Kings are from being playoff competitive. The assets simply are not available to make a couple of moves that can suddenly make the Kings playoff viable. A major rebuild would be the most prudent method to get the Kings to a sustainable winning team. Sure they might be able to trade some future draft capital for a couple of marginal established players and sneak into a late playoff spot but it won’t produce sustainable and substantial improvement. Barnes has one year left and Sabonis two years and if they don’t trade those guys now it’s very likely we lose them with no return. Sabonis to Portland for this years and next years first round pick with some salary fillers perhaps Hart makes sense for both teams. Barnes for a late first rounder to perhaps Utah might work. There’s not a urgent need to move Fox but I would be entertaining offers for him. The only veteran I would maintain at this point is Lyles because of his $2.6 million contract next year. I may also consider keeping Harkless with his contract.
Let’s make those moves and get Murray, and either Sharpe, Mathurin, Griffen or Duren and follow that up with Koloko. In the second round or as an UFA Timme. Here’s also some sleepers in the second round Gabe Brown – Michigan State, Keve Aluma – Virginia Tech, Pete Nance – Northwestern, Jake LaRavia – Wake Forest, Nembhard – Gonzaga. Maybe Drew Peterson – USC.
Wouldn’t it be much more exciting and entertaining watching a young developing team that will have struggles no doubt as opposed to a middle aged roster going nowhere. Still like the proposed Fox trade to Boston for Pritchard, Nesmith, 2022 and 2024 first round picks.
Mitchell, Pritchard, Nembhard
Mathurin or Griffin or Sharpe, TD
Nesmith, Gabe Brown
Murray, Lyles, Timme, LaRivia
Koloko, Duren, Queta
draft picks 2023 first round, 2023 first from Portland, 2023 second Round
2024 first own, 2024 first from Boston, second round.
I buy this 1000%! This should be the long term plan.
Get young and get rid of the older veterans who are at best, marginal players and won’t give us additional Ws.
I will be able to endure an 18 yr playoff drought while watching new, likeable players grow and develop. By year 2025, we might be a completely better team .
He will look great as Keegan Murray’s back up!
Knowing the Kings Keegan Murray will have to “earn his minutes” behind Lyles starting the season at PF.
If we can draft Murray at #7. You still have to somehow convince the Pacers to draft someone else or get lucky and drasft ahead of them
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