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Royal Roundtable: Post-draft thoughts

The crew gathered together to share their thoughts on Thursday nights moves.

Jun 23, 2022; Brooklyn, NY, USA; Keegan Murray (Iowa) shakes hands with NBA commissioner Adam Silver after being selected as the number four overall pick by the Sacramento Kings in the first round of the 2022 NBA Draft at Barclays Center. Mandatory Credit: Brad Penner-USA TODAY Sports

On Thursday, the Kings entered the NBA Draft armed with the 4th, 37th, and 49th picks. They exited with Keegan Murray, two future second rounders, the rights to Sasha Vezenkov, and a couple million in cash. Some members of the crew gathered together to share their thoughts, so let’s dive right in!

Tim: Let’s start with the good: Keegan Murray. As probably the first member of the local media to set my sights on Murray back in January, I can’t help but be excited about what he’ll be able to do for the Kings. I think he has a higher ceiling than most believe, as he can defend, score at three levels, and he also has some solid rim protection instincts as a weak-side defender. He’s going to be a key cog for any NBA team he’s on for the entirety of his career. I understand any and all frustration directed at the Kings for their draft night decisions, but I can’t comprehend that frustration devolving into vitriol for Murray as a prospect. If he wasn’t going 4th, he was going 5th. He’s good.

Yet, my excitement for Murray is muted by Sacramento’s nonsensical execution of their goal to make the playoffs next year. They needed to kill it on draft night, and they did anything but. Almost every other team in the Western Conference “We’re hoping to be in the playoff/play-in conversation next year” race made several moves to leap ahead of their competitors, while Sacramento stayed stagnant outside of their lottery selection. I keep hearing about Monte McNair’s aggressiveness in the trade market, and yet, outside of the Sabonis trade, nothing significant has been consummated in 2.5 years of management. We saw other teams move up, move back, add picks, and swap salaries, but the Kings were noticeably absent from all of those transactions, as their only moves were to punt their second round picks down the line. 

And speaking of those moves, trading the 37th pick for future second rounders that Monte McNair will almost certainly never see felt backwards in and of itself, but then selling the later pick for cash and a soon-to-be 27-year old EuroLeague prospect no one had heard of until yesterday made me feel even worse. Add in the failed John Collins negotiations (for the second time) and passing on the consensus fourth-best player in the draft, and I can’t help but think the Kings missed a huge opportunity last night. Teams like the Kings, with their history of losing and small market presence, rarely make significant talent additions in free agency, making the draft all that more important to leverage. Monte McNair’s goal is to make the playoffs in 2022 and they don’t feel much closer than they did three months ago. I’m underwhelmed.

Akis: Draft night was fine for the Sacramento Kings, if not a little boring.  For weeks the debate had been largely over who the Kings would select at 4, Keegan Murray or Jaden Ivey.  Many pundits, myself included, believed that Ivey was the higher upside pick, but the Kings clearly felt otherwise. I’m a little skeptical that the Kings would have taken the same tack if their best player wasn’t De’Aaron Fox (who Ivey seems to have a lot of similarities with), but this wasn’t a Luka/Bagley situation: Murray was clearly one of the best prospects available in this draft, and one of the most productive players in college basketball last season.  He should be able to step in from Day 1, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he does turn out to be the right pick in the long haul.  If you told most Kings fans before the Draft Lottery jump that moved the Kings from 7 to 4 that they would be getting Keegan Murray, the excitement would probably be a lot more palpable.

The Kings are getting dinged by many for drafting for fit, and it’s easy to see why: Jabari Smith Jr. might be the only other player in this entire draft who fits as well with what the Kings need as Murray.  He’s a switchable 3/4 who can play both ends of the court.  He can shoot, he can rebound, he plays defense and he hardly ever turns the ball over.  But what teams don’t need someone like this?  It’s hard to find a situation in the NBA where a team doesn’t need a guy like Murray.  

Some had hoped that if the Kings truly liked Murray better than Ivey that they would be able to extract more assets from a team below them in order to draft him and get a little extra, and I’m sure they were working the phone to do so.  I’m willing to bet that Adrian Wojnarowski’s reports that the Kings viewed this as a 4 person draft with a drop-off after Ivey were simply the Kings trying to throw some smoke at Detroit to get them to cough up something to move up a spot.  Either Detroit wasn’t buying it, or they were just as happy to take Murray if Ivey wasn’t there and weren’t willing to offer anything of significance to move up one spot.  The Kings clearly liked Murray enough over other options that they weren’t willing to trade too far down and risk not getting him.

I’m a bit more disappointed in how the Kings handled the second round. Trading the 49th pick for cash and the rights to a solid European player is fine, especially if Veznekov can come over and be a rotation player sooner rather than later.  But trading the 37th pick for future seconds when there were players still available that were seemingly first round talents like Jaden Hardy (who Dallas picked) or E.J. Liddell (who went 41 to the New Orleans) was disappointing.  It’s not the end of the world or anything, but I’m tired of the Kings seemingly ignoring opportunities in the 2nd round when we keep seeing other teams find diamonds in the rough every year, right in this range.  Just last year, you had the Pelicans find Herb Jones at 35 and the Bulls get Ayo Dosunmu at 38, two All-Rookie selections for playoff teams.  The Kings themselves have seen second round guys they sold for cash or future picks go on to be solid players in recent years: Xavier Tillman in 2020 and Gary Trent Jr. in 2018.  A team like the Kings should be throwing as many darts at the board as they can.  I like the Keon Ellis signing as a two-way contract, but they could have done that AND gotten another flier this year.

It was also a bit disappointing to not see a big trade of some sort after rumors seemed to indicate that the Kings were “leading the pack” in the pursuit of John Collins and were mentioned in other rumors as well.  Nothing came of that, and the Kings watched other teams in their conference get better.  The Trail Blazers were able to snag Jerami Grant for a likely late first rounder in 2025 from the Pistons.  The Rockets saw the guy that many considered the best prospect in the draft fall to them at 3, and then added a high upside player in Tari Eason and a flier on TyTy Washington.  

I’m excited to see Murray in Sacramento, and I think he’s going to be a good player for a long time. But drafting one player, whether it was Keegan Murray or Jaden Ivey, wasn’t going to fix the Kings.  There’s still a lot of work to be done, and given that free agency has never been Sacramento’s strong suit, I’m a little worried to see how the Kings make the improvements they need to get over the hump.  There’s more pressure than ever on De’Aaron Fox to become the perennial All-Star franchise guy that this team needs, and for Monte McNair to surround him with the pieces to not only end this playoff drought, but to go beyond.

Tony: I like Keegan Murray a lot, but I think the Kings made the wrong pick yesterday. Think is the most important word there. Monte McNair and the Kings could be right. Murray could be better than Jaden Ivey. Murray could be just what the Kings need next to Domantas Sabonis and De’Aaron Fox to finally make a playoff run. But I think it’s both fair and appropriate to seriously question any Kings basketball decision, especially one that goes against NBA consensus like this. The history speaks for itself.

The Kings weren’t the only team that was high on Keegan Murray. The Spurs, an organization that has earned plenty of trust, are a good example. This isn’t Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic. And it’s not saying much, but I have more faith in this front office than I did in Vlade Divac and his buddies. Monte McNair did a lot of work on this. We know Murray is an analytics darling, and McNair’s draft history is solid. If he’s right and Murray proves to be the better player, I’ll be the first to give him his praise. But until then, I guess we just have to sit here and hope that the Kings finally got one of these we’re smarter than everyone else decisions right.

Beyond the Murray selection, the Kings had a pretty uneventful draft. Yes, McNair has plenty of time to make trades and improve the roster before the season opener, but teams can and do get significantly better on draft night, and that wasn’t what the Kings explicitly did this year. They drafted the guy they wanted, landed Sasha Vezenkov, a lower level European prospect that may or may not ever play in the NBA, and made some extra cash by selling 2nd round picks. It was a boring and uninspired night from a franchise that still has a lot of work to do before their playoff hopes become a reality.

Greg: I put my thoughts on record before the draft, just to make sure it wouldn’t seem like I was simply making excuses after the fact:

I would have picked Ivey, but I don’t think the difference between Ivey and Murray is big enough to be overly upset about today. Ivey seems to have the higher upside, and god knows I want the Kings to capitalize on lottery luck and land a true superstar. But Murray is also really, really good, and there’s a path for him to become a superstar too. We can quibble about who we think is more or less likely to reach that highest level, but at the end of the day we’re all guessing, and there’s perfectly sound arguments to be made in favor of either player. But the Kings got a big man who is a good defender and can space the floor, which is exactly what every team in the NBA is looking for in a big man.

I wish the Kings had done more yesterday. I do. I feel like we’ve spent the last few years waiting for a big swing and instead we keep getting incremental improvement. But I also didn’t think it would make sense to trade for John Collins once the Kings had drafted Murray. I still hope the Kings can make another trade, whether that involves Harrison Barnes, Richaun Holmes, or others, to bolster the overall talent level of this roster. I know the Kings aren’t the masters of free agency, but there’s still plenty of time for trades to happen. I’m disappointed right now, but I also know the opening day roster could still look very different.

I keep coming back to the idea of “time will tell”. We can question a draft pick, but time will tell if this was the right decision or not. This isn’t to suggest Monte McNair should get endless time because we always need to wait to evaluate the next moves. He can be judged based on the totality of his tenure. But I find it strange to rush to judgement on yesterday’s pick. History hasn’t been kind to Kings fans in the draft, but for now I’ll hold onto hope that this time will be different, even if history tells me otherwise.

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234 Comments
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outrider
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June 24, 2022 2:41 pm

In general, I feel ok about the draft. I do wish they’d drafted somebody with the 37 or used it as part of a larger deal, so that was a bit disappointing.

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the Euro guy will come over. Curious to see what he can do.

Last edited 1 year ago by outrider
SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:25 pm
Reply to  outrider

Everything is awful

Name one team in the West who is more badly positioned than the Kings.

The only thing Monte has done is put his team in a little better position to draft the only Euro guy that matters in next years draft. The tall French dude.

Last edited 1 year ago by SexyNapear
Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
June 24, 2022 3:38 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Lakers.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 3:57 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Could be a reckoning, especially if they get Kyrie. The Lakers would further mortgage their future to get a name, with no consideration as to how his previous teams “benefited” from signing him.

ForKingsandCountry
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June 25, 2022 10:22 am
Reply to  Adamsite

The Lakers are a mess but I still think I’d rather have Lebron and AD. Plus, no matter how inept the Lakers are, they are still going to get guys like Lebron that just want to be in LA every so often no matter how bleak it gets.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:38 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Name one team in the West who is more badly positioned than the Kings.

Heck we may be the worst positioned team in the league, let alone the West.

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2022 4:44 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Tripping bud, they are fine and better positioned for the playoffs then they have been in YEARS

Amonk81
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June 24, 2022 4:57 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

If they add a player in trade or FA at the level of Fox/Sabonis then maybe they have something.

And I do actually think McNair knows what he’s doing.

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 4:59 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Is it because of all the clever moves he’s made or trading second round picks? Why are u impressed?

Amonk81
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June 24, 2022 5:04 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

I like his draft pics. And though I wanted them to trade Fox, I think Sabonis was a very good get if McNair was forced to go for playoffs rather than full rebuild.

I like Mike Brown as a hire. I like that he didn’t let the shit owner bring in Christie or hire Marc Jackson. Bagley for DDV is good.

He seems like an actual real GM with a system and his guys. The first real GM in Sac since Petrie.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 5:05 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

I covered this with you in a different thread, and so am surprised you decided to drag the same, already-answered question into this one.

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 5:36 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Am I supposed to be impressed that you’re a pretentious fool, Andy?

Why, yes, I’m impressed.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2022 7:34 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

You are too kind in that description.

Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2022 10:34 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Is anyone supposed to be impressed that you can spell “pretentious?”

Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2022 10:35 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Leave me the easy ones Andy.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2022 11:20 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Ok

Hamlet1989
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June 25, 2022 12:27 am

Not you. Your too easy!

AnybodyButBagley
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June 25, 2022 9:32 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Ok….

Have to keep it to small words you can read. Until now you, you have never responded to anything I have said even when I directly ask you a question.

Last edited 1 year ago by AnybodyButBagley
Hamlet1989
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June 25, 2022 11:26 am

We’re Kings fans, not adversaries. I have no beef. If I ignored you, I apologize. I’m not a consistent poster, or reader. I just fade in and out of the convo. I don’t mean to sound hostile.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, and comments, when they are grounded. I feel you like you let your emotion lead you to hyperbolic statements. The negativity can be a drag. We’ve been though enough as Kings fans. There’s no sense in running each other down.
I’m 50 years old, and I’ve been morbidly obsessed with the team since ’96. It’s been a long 16 years. And even the glory years were mostly heart-breaking.
I don’t know anything about you (or anyone else on this forum). I don’t think your a troll (which there are some of on this site). You give me the impression of youthful exuberance gone wild. Some of your posts are entertaining.
Please try to stay positive. If there’s no reason for positivity, there’s no reason to even care (let alone post/participate). Let’s not attack each other. Please forgive my sarcasm as I don’t mean to be confrontational.
If you have a specific question for me, you’ll probably need to ask it while I’m active on here, or I’m probably not likely to even see it. I’m willing to answer, but if it becomes too contentious, or argumentative, I’m out.
Moreover, it’s just my humble (sometimes not humble enough) opinion. There are many more knowledgeable posters on here, and better informed opinions than my own. I’ve been talked away from the ledge on here myself. That’s why I’m here, not to impress anyone with my incite. I offer what I have. Thanks for reading.

Hamlet1989
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June 25, 2022 11:30 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

“Incite” Ha Ha, laughing at my own lack of spelling.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 25, 2022 10:35 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Read your comments.

I am all for positivity. We can all express our opinion without attacking or insulting people.

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:02 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

I fee like this unnecessary but hey, I’m just a dude with thoughts.

CoreyBrewersD
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June 25, 2022 2:33 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

“The Sacramento Kings trade the 38th pick in the NBA draft for (insert player never coming) and the remainder of former coach (insert coach here)’s contract value”

What 2nd found pick has this team developed into an average starter? We have an owner who doesnt invest in that development at all. (see assistant Stockton GM) 2nd round picks here are to be traded for $ to pay fired coaches.

Jack
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June 25, 2022 6:46 am
Reply to  Amonk81

What about Collins or Kuzma? I like Kuzma better. Would love it if they could also grab Hachimura for backup power forward. He is shooting 44% from three and can play defense. Fox, DD, Kuzma, Murray and Sabonis.

RikSmits
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June 25, 2022 6:56 am
Reply to  Jack

I watched a lot of Wizards the last two years and Hachimura is not a good defender.

jwalker1395
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June 25, 2022 11:45 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Hachimura isn’t worth anything to me. Kuzma was really impressive when I saw him live last year. He’s grown into his body and still has nice touch and physical coordination, along with being more on the timeline with Fox-Sabonis. I’d be pretty satisfied if we picked him up.

richie88
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June 25, 2022 12:02 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I wouldn’t want the Kings to pick up either guy. Neither player is particularly good IMO.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 25, 2022 5:05 pm
Reply to  richie88

This.

ForKingsandCountry
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June 25, 2022 10:57 pm
Reply to  richie88

Agree with you Richie. I don’t think either guy really helps us.

rockbottom
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June 26, 2022 8:07 am
Reply to  richie88

Kuzma is very good and why he will be in the league a long time and make a ton of money .

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 4:58 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

Over who? Pelicans? Only team that might be worse (but positioned better for future) is OKC

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2022 7:54 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

I actually only think there are 4 clear cut top teams in the west: GS, MEM, PHO, DEN. Everyone else has questionable things going on and are reachable

rockbottom
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June 26, 2022 8:10 am
Reply to  MidtownMike

The Clippers , Suns, Pelicans and Mavericks for certain . Hope the kool aid tastes good now .

sacm3bill
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June 26, 2022 10:47 am
Reply to  MidtownMike

1) No team in the West is more badly positioned than the Kings.
2) The Kings are better positioned than they have been in years.

Both those statements can be true. And probably are, unfortunately.

markdog333
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June 26, 2022 11:04 am
Reply to  sacm3bill

I was just thinking that!

The Kings will definitely need some improved play from the roster to move up to the play-in this year. The west looks brutal, but to me, there are also a lot of teams with questionmarks.

How are the Jazz going to look with a new coach and possibly after a big trade? Is Kawhi going to be close to 100%, and if not, will PG remain healthy enough to carry the team for most of the season again? Are the Suns going to trade Ayton, and will CP be able to continue the impressive run this late in his career. The Lakers are another year older, and need LeBron and AD to stay healthy. Are the Spurs any better than last season, and what will the Blazers look like with Dame back?

Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2022 9:50 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

You cry for now but, when/if the Kings are better this season, you don’t get to join the party, and I’m gonna be clownin’ you ceaselessly for being fair-weather, and giving up on the season in June!
Sac has SOME of the best fans in the country.

Hamlet1989
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June 24, 2022 9:51 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Oh and “more badly?”

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 10:42 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

How’s that Kool aid tasting?

Hamlet1989
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June 25, 2022 12:26 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

More badly!

Dougscott
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June 24, 2022 2:43 pm

Did the off-season last only 1 day or did I miss something?

The dread felt amongst kings fans today is a bit ridiculous, acting this is the final product? The off-season has only begun.

The Kings got better yesterday, pure and simple. They added who they thought was the BPA. And added a solid potential 2way player in Ellis.

I know we all expected a lot of activity yesterday, but I can truthfully only point to 1 move yesterday that made a team a better playoff contender, and that was Philly trading for Melton.

outrider
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June 24, 2022 2:48 pm
Reply to  Dougscott

It’s funny. I read multiple draft analyses last night and they all seemed to follow a familiar script: praise for Murray as a player and the things he brings to the table, then dinging the Kings with the draft grade because he wasn’t Ivey.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 24, 2022 2:55 pm
Reply to  outrider

I was half wondering if the Spurs had pulled off a trade for #4 and took Murray, would the analysts be healing praise on a “smart” Spurs organization because they saw something in Murray. Kings and a history of drafting like the Kangz while the Spurs have a history of drafting players who win rings. It’s all perspective.

Dougscott
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June 24, 2022 3:00 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Yup.

and there was that story where the Warriors were completely enamored with him also, even though they knew they couldn’t get him

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:20 am
Reply to  Dougscott

Pretend they never said that. 🤫

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 5:36 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Vecenie called Murray a good player who was 8th on his board, slammed the Kings for the Davion Mitchell draft last year, the De’Aaron Fox extension and the Haliburton trade in one blurb.

Then he managed to say the Kings might have a good offense. 😂😂😂

One of the hilarious takes I’ve seen in awhile.

Dougscott
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June 24, 2022 3:01 pm
Reply to  outrider

Yeah, it was like..

”he was the best player in college basketball last year” and then proceed to diss the Kings

whatever

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:24 am
Reply to  Dougscott

Emphasis on :

whatever.

It’s just part of being a kings fan. Everyone in here probably gets that but it still sucks to hear the simple narrative regurgitated at every possible opportunity.

rockbottom
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June 24, 2022 4:50 pm
Reply to  outrider

Jay Bills was on Scot Van Pelt Show after the draft and said Kings made a great pick and Murray was the best player and most NBA ready in the draft . Just sayin .

rockbottom
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June 24, 2022 4:50 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Bilas

Amonk81
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June 24, 2022 4:55 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

I think we all know Murray is most NBA ready but who the fuck wants that when you can go for someone who can be a star?

Who wants to top out at the 8th instead of trying to build a title contender?

Maybe Murray is that guy, who knows but NBA ready? Whatever. Kings need talent/stars

richie88
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June 24, 2022 4:57 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

I think Murray’s more likely to be a star than Ivey. Ivey will need to improve a lot of skills to be a star. Murray’s already a skilled player.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2022 4:59 pm
Reply to  richie88

I hope you are correct. If McNair is to be believed then they have their 3rd piece.

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:27 am
Reply to  richie88

Magic Johnson was too nba ready and clearly didn’t improve in his entire career. Just like every 4 year college player that was a mature adult before being drafted in the nba. No upside.

TImorous_Me
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June 24, 2022 8:37 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Can be a star, yes. Will be a star? Not necessarily.

itsjabby
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June 26, 2022 9:17 am
Reply to  TImorous_Me

maybe! we shall see! i think yes

rockbottom
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June 25, 2022 7:01 am
Reply to  Amonk81

Ivey a star ? No evidence just guessing . Murray played in the same conference and had far better stats and was MVP . Facts not guessing .

jwalker1395
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June 25, 2022 11:51 am
Reply to  Amonk81

What does ‘Star Potential’ mean, anyhow? Murray is a built-in-a-lab forward for the modern NBA. Hits threes, defends 3-5, makes good cuts/drives, rebounds, limits TOs, good athlete with long arms.

Guys like that win titles. Ivey runs faster and jumps higher. If we’re running track, maybe then Ivey has more star potential. Other than that, there’s not much he can do on a basketball court that Murray doesn’t do better. I’ll take my chances with him.

markdog333
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June 26, 2022 11:11 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

I think it is the athleticism, and that Ivey does some things that remind people of Ja. If he had Ja’s playmaking abilities, I would be much higher on him. He just seems like a completely different player to me – more of a volume scorer – and I am not sure whether he will be as efficient at that at the NBA level. I’m not saying he can’t learn to be a better playmaker, but it does not seem to be instinctive to him.

I don’t watch much college basketball, so keep in mind that is from a relatively low sample size.

outrider
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June 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

I was only speaking to what I read at various sites that offered draft analysis/grades. I’m sure there were people that thought it was a good pick, but that’s not what I was reading at the aforementioned sites.

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 10:04 pm
Reply to  outrider

The Jaden Ivey goggles are strong!

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:29 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Jayden Ivey koolaid.

Kingsguru21
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June 25, 2022 1:47 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

That’s what the goggles are for!

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:25 am
Reply to  rockbottom

1/175

sweet. Someone has their own brain!!!! Yay!!! 😃🤗

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:18 am
Reply to  outrider

This.

do they not think some people will see how hypocritical they sound? I do.

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:26 pm
Reply to  Dougscott

I have heard this silly reasoning for 15 years. It never gets better.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:40 pm
Reply to  Dougscott

Majority of the teams in the NBA got better last night, so not much of an accomplishment. This still isn’t a playoff team so what’s the excitement for? It’s been 16 years of this BS.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 24, 2022 4:17 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Yeah there was nothing imaginative how he used the pick and not trying to do something in the second round was perplexing. A smart 4th grader could have done what Monte did last night. Nothing against Murray who may turn out to be a fine player but I’m disappointed nothing more was done.

Kosta
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June 24, 2022 4:27 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

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ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:35 am
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

I could never quite grasp why Detroit or Indiana would want to trade up like every pundit and many many fans implied like it was such an easy decision for Monte. The cost to select Keegan Murray at 4 was steep. Why didn’t anyone trade with Detroit to get Ivey? Was Detroit stupid and miss a huge opportunity to trade down and get more assets when Ivey “fell” to them? Where were the huge offers the kings passed up on. This stuff is too easy to debunk.

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 4:59 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

This

Kings-Rebuild
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June 24, 2022 4:14 pm
Reply to  Dougscott

If Ellis is a two way player you have a very loose definition of a two way player.

richie88
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June 24, 2022 4:47 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

He’s on a 2 way contract & has the potential to be a good 3&D player (though it seems like he’ll have to at least get stronger to do that), so it works in 1 sense of being a 2 way player & could potentially work in a 2nd way

NorCalKingsFan
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June 24, 2022 6:49 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Ellis was named to the All SEC Defensive Team and he also shot 37% from 3 and 88% from the FT line, so he looks like a potential two-way player.

ArcoThunder
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June 25, 2022 9:16 am
Reply to  Dougscott

I for one didn’t think anything was going to happen on draft night. I’ve learned my lesson long long ago. There’s always a lot of chatter around this team making moves and being in on several trade talks. Very rarely does anything extra ever happen. Very rarely.

Murray and trading away second round picks is par for the course. I like Keegan over Jayden. Maybe I’m wrong but the Ivey hype was total BS. Sure he’s good but if he was so amazing he would have snuck into the top 3. I don’t buy that drafting Murray was for “fit” or the “safe pick”. He was voted the best player in college basketball last year. Not sure where an argument can be made that makes his selection any less smart then literally any player in this draft. It’s not fact. The professional opinion makers form normal fans opinions. Those guys are routinely wrong every year without fail. Keep it real.

CoreyBrewersD
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June 25, 2022 2:46 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Agreed! If movement and gambling the franchise assets, just the sake of doing so, is the best draft day option, then the Knicks won the decade Thursday.

alec26
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June 24, 2022 2:50 pm

Totally agree with Greg that “We can quibble about who we think is more or less likely to reach that highest level, but at the end of the day we’re all guessing, and there’s perfectly sound arguments to be made in favor of either player.” I think a lot of people get into their draft mode and think their guesstimates are scientific truth (hmm, hmm, James Ham). What about the three #2 pick in the draft players who played for the Kings in the last seven or eight years? If I remember, Bucks fans were ecstatic to get Jabari Parker in 2014. Darrell Williams was rated most NBA ready in the draft. How did that turn out long term?

I don’t mind taking fit into consideration for a draft pick. Murray and Ivey were the two best players in the Big 10 this year but Murray is like getting a solid fielding short stop while Ivey is like a potentially decent hitting left fielder. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. If scoring 2 guard is such a position of need why did the Kings trade Buddy Hield?

rockbottom
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June 24, 2022 4:55 pm
Reply to  alec26

Agree and Murray not Ivey was Big 10 MVP with better stats across the board .

itsjabby
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June 26, 2022 9:20 am
Reply to  alec26

A lot of these analysts don’t know what they are talking about or just throw a lot of fluff out there that means nothing.

Adamsite
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June 24, 2022 2:52 pm

Can anyone clarify, when a team trades for cash (as the Kings often do) does that money go into an operational budget that Monte has to play with or into the pockets of owners? Or is it some combination of both?

Also, if it goes into an operational budget, why have the last 3 GMs under Vivek so often traded for cash? Are they limited by ownership with a budget of how much they can spend, because we all know they’ve been in the bottom half of salaries in the Vivek era.

I only ask because it seems to me the Kings do it more often than any other franchise.

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 6:13 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Can anyone clarify, when a team trades for cash (as the Kings often do) does that money go into an operational budget that Monte has to play with or into the pockets of owners? Or is it some combination of both?

I’m going to guess that it’s going to the operational budget, but that’s to make up for shortfalls in that budget. Or possibly, just to increase the overall budget.

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2022 7:39 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

At least you state you are guessing this time.

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 9:29 pm

As opposed to what other times?

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2022 11:27 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Generally you talk out of your ass and act like it is some sort of gospel while trying to pretend to be smart by writing endless rambling posts that you copy paste random crap you read into without any order or logic followed by quoting someone’s point but never actually making your own rambling point that never ends t just goes and goes sometimes about clay ovens sometimes about basketball usually copy and pasted stuff from your latest Google search……just rambling nonsense.

You should be the only one that might understand that……

Hamlet1989
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June 25, 2022 12:29 am

Great contribution! Very constructive.

Kingsguru21
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June 25, 2022 3:11 am

sometimes about clay ovens

I didn’t realize I had mentioned clay ovens. Since we’re here, I highly recommend them. My Mom and I had a terrific sirloin baked in one. Threw in some red potatoes, carrots, red bell peppers and onions as well. Awesome stuff once we cooked the sirloin long enough. (It depends on your preferred preparation, of course.)

I didn’t realize you were such a big fan of clay ovens!!! Nice to meet ya buddy!!!

AnybodyButBagley
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June 24, 2022 7:38 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

The check goes to the organization and the organization decides what to do with it. Same as when you buy something from a store. The business gets the money and decides what to do with it.

We can only hope the Kings use it to improve. Most likely use it to pay coaches that no longer work here.

Klam
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June 24, 2022 3:08 pm

Damn, I was having login issues yesterday during the draft, so I couldn’t comment on TKH until I tried again just now. Glad I’m freeeee!

RobHessing
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June 24, 2022 3:10 pm
Reply to  Klam

Coincidence?
comment image

Kosta
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June 24, 2022 4:15 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I have never seen Klam and Monte McNair in the same room at the same time.

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 5:46 pm
Reply to  Kosta

That’s probably a good thing. I’m quite sure Klam has forgotten more about Chinese food than Monte McNair will ever know. And that loss of knowledge would set humanity back quite a ways. We couldn’t have a football jock from an Ivy school suddenly become a connoisseur on what constitutes good Chinese food, could we? That would just be wrong.

JoeEnzyme
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June 25, 2022 9:17 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Probably even a connoisseur about Chines breakfast!

outrider
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June 24, 2022 11:02 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Spock gif = auto up vote

Bluejohn
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June 24, 2022 3:40 pm
Reply to  Klam

I know how you feel. My Cable and internet went down around 5:15 and I didn’t get back up and running til around 7:00. Most relaxing draft I’ve gone thru in years. I could not be more pleased with the Murray selection and believe he is actually going to help make the team better in his rookie year. Don’t understand why the Kings didn’t hold on to their first second round pick but WTF.

rockbottom
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June 24, 2022 4:59 pm
Reply to  Bluejohn

Jaden Hardy may well turn out to be this years Gary Trent that was given away . Seemed a mistake based on his top 5 HS rating . Not taking a swing where it’s easy could prove costly .

BestHyperboleEver
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June 24, 2022 5:03 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

More likely he’s this year’s Jordan Bone.

rockbottom
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June 25, 2022 7:08 am

Yes, probably true but if he finds his potential it is a Sluck up on asset acquisition . Just sayin when you don’t swing you can’t hit .

markdog333
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June 26, 2022 11:18 am
Reply to  rockbottom

I guess I just don’t get how drafting Murray is not swinging.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 26, 2022 1:15 pm
Reply to  markdog333

Drafting Murray at 4 is not swinging at 37. They had another couple ABs if they wanted them.

TerzoM
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June 24, 2022 3:22 pm

I don’t buy Monte’s “No Mandate” comment. His days are numbered. If the Kings don’t trend towards Play-in, Monte will be Vi-wrecked. If so I don’t see Sabonis re-signing either 23-24 season.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:42 pm
Reply to  TerzoM

Highly unlikely we make the playoffs or play-in this year, so I think MM is gone next off season.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 24, 2022 4:19 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Agree, if nothing more is done and I mean significantly more, we are looking at 30-35 wins next year.

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:29 pm

A real GM would have shipped out Fox and Barnes, acquired multiple assets, saved cap space, and started this dreck team from scratch.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 24, 2022 4:20 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

So true, anybody off the streets could have done what Monte did last night.

Kosta
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June 24, 2022 4:24 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

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TerzoM
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June 24, 2022 4:35 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Ladies and Gentlemen, Let’s hear it for your New 2023-24 GM, cum New 2023-24 PG…
comment image

richie88
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June 24, 2022 4:52 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

I think it’d be hard to convince Vivek that trading Fox is the right move.

arbexfernando
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June 24, 2022 3:41 pm

I just don’t see the vision. Look at the young core from Houston, OKC and Detroit, who embraced full rebuilding process. Kings fans are eager for a home run because it looks like the only thing that can save us.

Is there enough talent in fox-davion-barnes-keegan-sabonis? We need a leap and concistency from two of them, at least. All good players, would help a lot of franchises, they just may not be the right collective to form a winning team. Let’s see what Mike Brown can do and hope that Monte is a lot right in his recent choices.

TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:46 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

There is no vision. Just throwing darts at the board hoping something sticks. I was hoping for McGenius but it’s looking more like McFired by the trade deadline or next off season.

MidtownMike
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June 24, 2022 6:31 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Absolutely a vision, it’s high bbiq players that are 2 way players.

ForKingsandCountry
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June 25, 2022 10:36 am
Reply to  MidtownMike

I think that remains to be seen. If the vision is high bbiq guys that are two way players, one would presume that the defense and overall bbiq of the team would start to improve at some point right? Certainly haven’t seen any evidence of that yet.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 3:54 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

Ownership not allowing a complete tank at any time over the past few seasons is the real difference. All three of these teams threw in the towel before Halloween, and we’re seeing the fruits of their, well, not labors, perhaps schemes is the better word.

arbexfernando
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June 24, 2022 3:59 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

scheming is a way of laboring in this business

andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 4:00 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

Then I’m the hardest-working man in show business.

Kosta
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June 24, 2022 4:31 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

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andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 4:42 pm
Reply to  Kosta

My nuts are still sore.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 24, 2022 4:21 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

True and that gets back to no plan or vision.

Amonk81
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June 24, 2022 4:49 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yes. A better way to put what I said. Rebuild you morons, don’t reload. You’re not in that position amd never have been under Vivek, though he acts like the Kings are always a move away.

SexyNapear
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June 24, 2022 5:38 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Ground breaking take

Amonk81
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June 24, 2022 8:36 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

The single biggest problem with the Kings (and what annoys about this draft) is this no rebuild No foresight mandate from the single biggest problem with this franchise…….. you know who

Amonk81
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June 24, 2022 4:47 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

I think the vision is what scares me. The Kings have decided Fox is to be built around come hell or high water. They seem to feel that he and Sabonis are a core that will win.

Thanks to Vivek and his short sighted idiocy the Kings have not attempted to really rebuild, like small market teams and well run teams do, they just try to reload.

I’d rather have Hali amd Mathurin and rebuild etc etc.

So, I question if the Kings have chosen the correct path and players. And why this pick irks and draft day in general—-Kings should be swinging for the fences in every pic amd player.

WizsSox
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June 24, 2022 8:33 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

Throw the magic in there. It could work for these teams. Have some promising pieces.

That said, I would bet a decent amount of money that at least 2 of those 4 teams are still in the lottery 2 seasons from now. That would put those teams in a 4-5 year “rebuild” without much to show for it. Guess depends what your appetitive does that is.

More than one way to skin a cat. I find it really unlikely all those teams are playoff bound after 4 seasons of tanking.

RikSmits
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June 24, 2022 10:29 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

We’re 16 years in and and counting.
I have a hard time understanding a lack of appetite for a 4-5 year rebuild.
Right now, the cat is skinning us.

WizsSox
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June 25, 2022 8:10 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Sure if you start from square one and say 16 vs 4-5 that’s an easy proposition. But that’s not the situation.

My point is that bottoming out is no slam dunk proposition at getting into playoffs. There’s just as many examples of teams tinkering and building without completely tanking and improving.

I think you can argue for either method, but I don’t think it should be viewed as some plain sighted mismanagement not to try the full on 3-4 year 20 win tank method.

RikSmits
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June 25, 2022 8:52 am
Reply to  WizsSox

My point is that we tried everything else and we’re still stuck here.

The only season there probably was a concerted tank effort was in 2008-2009.

Tank jobs are no guarantee, of course.

But I personally would be more excited about a team with many young prospects and seeing how it comes to fruition like in Cleveland, Detroit, Houston or OKC, opposed to seeing us squander the last bits of Barnes’ asset value and hoping that Fox will shed the inconsistent motor and the bad D and somehow will become that guy.

Your milleage may value, and I respect that.

WizsSox
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June 25, 2022 10:32 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I was on the train for a long time and don’t discount the approach. Up until couple years ago I was going on tankthon nightly to see for positioning.

It comes down to having some competent people in the front office. If you don’t, probably doesn’t matter what method you use. If you do, I think either approach can work. Personally I like McNairs style and approach so far. The next 1-2 years will dictate if that’s an opinion that pays off.

I think it’s hard to tear it down to studs right now and say, “Buckle up people, we are going to make it to 20 years for this drought”…and have no more guarantee at results in my opinion.

If the same GM and coach had been running this for the drought obviously I would say change your methods. But they haven’t and thus I think they should be evaluated on the last 2 years…which is probably an incomplete grade at this point I’d admit.

RikSmits
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June 25, 2022 10:38 am
Reply to  WizsSox

It comes down to having some competent people in the front office. If you don’t, probably doesn’t matter what method you use

I’d say yes and no to that.

If Vlade would have just taken Luka, no matter how bad he was until that point, I think probably the drought would have been broken and Vlade would still have a job.

That’s why tanking and taking multiople shots at high end talent is a big equalizer. If you get the occasional LBJ, AD, Durant or Luka, you’re more than halfway there.

WizsSox
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June 25, 2022 11:41 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I get your point…but he didn’t and he wasn’t competent in that moment. And he wasn’t competent when trading pick swaps for salary relief and forcing Kings to miss on Taytum. So incompetent GMs missing on the few chances you get to pick said talent is a bigger problem in my mind. If I have a smart GM, decent chance they can find a way to a good team regardless of method.

Jury still out for Monte in my mind.

Last edited 1 year ago by WizsSox
TheGrantNapear
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June 24, 2022 3:44 pm

As long as the FO continues to make moves around Fox (not taking Luka, trading Hali, not taking Ivey) they will never sniff the playoffs. Simple as that. He’s not a number one and to continually make moves based on him is absurd.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 3:51 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Seems like the pick was more about covering some of Sabonis’ shooting problems that it is about Fox’s. If Sabonis was a stretch five, the Kings would likely have looked to trade down to get Duren or Mark Williams. There simply wasn’t any leverage where Detroit was concerned,

BestHyperboleEver
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June 24, 2022 5:11 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I think they just picked the best player available.

MichaelMack
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June 24, 2022 8:46 pm

I don’t know why it is so hard for people to accept that they chose one of the best players in college basketball who plays a very valuable position in today’s game, and is the right size and right kind of athlete to build a team with.

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 9:34 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

Narratives are powerful stuff. For alot of Kings fans these days, the draft is the only thing that matters. If you’re not uber aggressive making a 1000 moves, it will bring inevitable disappointment.

I think the biggest real criticism is the Kings didn’t use the 37th pick on an actual player, and personally I don’t especially care.

What matters are the other moves they make because they need to make other moves.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kingsguru21
RikSmits
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June 24, 2022 10:34 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

I like the pick, and I think that the Ivey has star potential takes because he’s like Ja or he’s so athletic are lazy.

Having said that, mainly pointing at Murray’s success in college basketball is equally lazy. Many excellent players at the college level failed to make a dent in the NBA.

richie88
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June 24, 2022 5:03 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

While Murray was the best fit, I’d say he was also the BPA at #4.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 3:49 pm

Well, these takes certainly run the gamut, some of them all by themselves.

I’d have selected Ivey, but Murray is going to be great. Having said that, with some feeling that the choice made was a bad one, or even malpractice by the front office, I would ask:

Are you still pining for Tyrese Haliburton? At the time of the trade, there was a lot of talk of him being a lock to be an all-star multiple times. Murray is the exact same type of cerebral player, except that he also defends, and has no fear of contact.

I hope that both of these guys turn out to be great. I don’t know if Ivey will be a franchise guy, no one does. If Fox’s play play after acquiring Sabonis is any indicator, and Brown gets full buy-in on defense, I like Fox’s odds of being great more than I do Ivey’s.

arbexfernando
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June 24, 2022 3:57 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I’m over Hali. Not as a person, because I love him. I just don’t see he being more than a role player (maybe a great one). I can go as far as saying that Domas will end up with a better career. But the trade will only make sense if Domas re-sign. That’s an important If.

andy_sims
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June 24, 2022 4:04 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

I think that there are other possible outcomes with Sabonis, but don’t know more than anyone else at this point.

SneakerKing
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June 24, 2022 5:26 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

I’m over Hali as well. I get the feeling he’s sort of Lonzo Ball 2.0, but with some dog/defensive limitations. Weakside and off ball defense are very good. However his on ball defense is lacking and I wonder if he’s too nice of a guy. Not going to lie I’d rather have him than Fox, but I understand Indy not wanting to take Fox’s max contract and wanting Hali’s offense and rookie contract control.

MichaelMack
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June 24, 2022 8:59 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Well said Andy. I have to say, I agree with our assessment that Fox is probably the most likely to be great between he and Ivey. I don’t think it is that big of step to contend for an all star appearance for Fox. This will be the best coach he has played for, and he will be playing with a big man who he can have some genuine synergy with (for what its worth, I watch a lot of Indiana basketball, and even with making two all star teams, I don’t think we have seen Sabonis fully utilized either). Ivey is probably going to need several years to be as good as Fox, and there is no guarantee that even happens.

I want the Kings to try and be good, then they can figure out how to be great. Its going to take many moves to get this team to 45-50 wins, and its not all happening in this draft.

Likewise, as pretty as those young players look in Orlando, Houston, Detroit, etc, they are going to need just as much luck to have them all develop. I keep seeing “every team in the west improved!”, but I read that every year, and every year injuries hit one team, another implodes, another fires their coach. Monte seems to have a type of player he likes, I think he made a really smart hire in Brown, I hope he just keeps to his vision, and not this stupid scatter shot of moves just to make moves, which ends up being activity without accomplishment.

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 9:37 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

activity without accomplishment

But it’s so shiny at the beginning.

reydarly
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June 24, 2022 4:05 pm

There is always a win now mandate here honestly, but as soon as we start trending in the right direction Vivek gets crazy and starts trying to put his touch on this teams success. This was evidenced by the circumstances of both Mike Malone and Dave Joerger getting let go. We were seriously 9 games out of the playoffs in the ’18-’19 (Luka/Bagley’s rookie years) season. It’s not apples to apples but FWIW Dallas drafting Luka resulted in 9 more wins. If you remember that year the Kings lost a lot of games in the last few minutes due mostly to poor execution in crunch time. Murray isn’t going to move the needle much. He will be a solid piece but right now this team needs to be on OKC/DET/HOU’s program.

BasketballHella
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June 24, 2022 4:55 pm

I think the incremental way they have been doing things is more the norm these days within the league. It’s not very often you see teams making huge moves to completely change the direction of said franchise.

Murray is definitely not the most exciting player or has the most IT factor as far as attention. But I personally would love to see Kings that get back to being focused on basketball and honing their craft vs shoe deals, MVP prognostics, and NFT deals.

He showed that he was able to make those around him better last year which is something no one on the Kangz can claim with the exception of Sabonis.

Marty
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June 24, 2022 5:10 pm

Without superstars it really doesn’t matter.

Outside-looking-in franchise, providing revenue to the league so those that matter can get the shiny things.

ForKingsandCountry
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June 25, 2022 10:42 am
Reply to  Marty

Rinse, repeat. Seriously none of this matters without at least one bonafide star player. We don’t have that yet. Maybe Murray can be that and I think he’s at least got a chance but that ship has already sailed with Fox and Sabonis IMO. After watching the playoffs and the finals, if you don’t have guys that can either shoot or defend at a really high level you’re not going to be successful. Neither Fox or Sabonis can shoot or defend. You can get away with one of those guys if they facilitate at a really high level which Sabonis (Fox is just OK in that department) does but two of them as your best players? I don’t see it.

Last edited 1 year ago by ForKingsandCountry
eddie41
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June 24, 2022 5:27 pm

I’m not disappointed at all. Kings’ roster just got better.

Corneroffense
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June 24, 2022 6:15 pm

Thanks Roundtable, for the extended, well reasoned takes. The overall impression I get is that given the horrible state of the franchise, more than ‘solid first round pick Monte’ was and is needed. Unless Monte makes some moves to get what ‘Fox and Ox’ don’t supply (outside shooting and athletic defense) before opening day, another year will have been wasted. I’d like to be optimistic but…I’m not holding my breath.

Milkman
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June 24, 2022 6:25 pm

Tevin Brown got picked up by the Pacers with an Exhibit 10.
Can the Kings use these too…like signing Hyunjung Lee or Orlando Robinson to an E10?

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 6:47 pm
Reply to  Milkman

It means the Pacers have an option on signing Brown to a Two Way Contract if Brown didnt make the Pacers squad as a minimum salary guy out of training camp, basically.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kingsguru21
Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 6:53 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I believe this is how the Kings brought Chimezie Metu into camp back in 2021.

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 6:35 pm

I looked up my top 10 that I put in the 1st community draft board. I had Keegan Murray 6th (but not behind Ivey who I put 8th). TKH had Murray 6th, too. (TKH had Ivey 5th.)

What interests me is that the Kings didn’t trade off 4, probably because there wasn’t a deal worth doing, and they clearly saw Keegan Murray. I knew they were serious about Murray because he had dinner with Fox and Sabonis.

It becomes clear that in order for the Kings to get value out of this 4th pick. Keegan Murray will have to kill it. Which he might. And that’s true of anyone you draft that high.

I’m not worried whatsoever about the sell off of the 37th pick. There were rumors early on the Kings were targeting TWC guys and they might not have gotten anyone to commit to that like they did with Queta a year ago. They did get a 27 year old Sasha Vezenkov who did shoot 37% in EuroLeague. Whether that’s meaningful who knows?

What I know is the Kings needed improvement in multiple areas this offseason. Draft, trades, free agency, internal improvement from your existing players. Sure maybe there wasn’t a trade made, but there doesn’t have to be on draft day. I think the next 14 days are crucial to next season so Im hoping it goes well.

Marty
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June 24, 2022 8:10 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

in order for the Kings to get value out of this 4th pick. Keegan Murray will have to kill it. 

Next level analysis. 😜

Kingsguru21
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June 24, 2022 9:48 pm
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