Articles | Mailbag | NBA Draft

Chainmail: Let’s talk some lottery luck!

You ask, we answer!

Welcome back to Chainmail! Well folks, this has been quite the week of luck in the Kangzdom. Of course, I'm talking about the Kings getting the incredible and unexpected opportunity to hire Anjali Ranadive to the Stockton Kings front office! Oh, and the Kings jumped to the 4th pick in the 2022 NBA Draft, something that only had around an 8% chance of happening. Luck, luck, and more luck!

All of those things, in addition to the re-hiring (unfiring?, promoting?) of Alvin Gentry and the hiring of Mike Brown have the Kings in an highly interesting position over the next several weeks. The top-3 of the draft will most likely end in some version of Chet Holmgren, Jabari Smith Jr., and Paolo Banchero going back-to-back-to-back, leaving Jaden Ivey as the consensus top available prospect, a player who doesn't exactly fill a ton of needs for Sacramento's roster. Meanwhile, lower-ceiling, higher-floor players such as Keegan Murray and AJ Griffin are waiting in the wings, a pair of forwards who could solve a ton of shooting and defensive issues for this core.

Add in the rumored playoff mandate, Monte McNair's expiring contract, Domantis Sabonis' free agency coming sooner than everyone wants to discuss, mock drafts, workouts, the possibility of trading up, the possibility of trading down, and everyone's habit of throwing crazy (and usually justifiable) trades Sacramento's way on draft night, and this fan base is in for a hell of a few weeks. Let's kick off the craziness in our own little corner of basketball hell with some questions!

Now, get to asking, so we can get to answering!

Support Us On Patreon
Subscribe
Notify of
225 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
RobHessing
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
May 19, 2022 10:32 am

Rank your top six draft prospects, and then rank what you perceive as the organization’s top six draft prospects.

Kosta
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 10:49 am
Reply to  RobHessing

comment image

comment image

comment image

Last edited 1 month ago by Kosta
TerzoM
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 3:39 pm
Reply to  Kosta

comment image

ForKingsandCountry
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 20, 2022 9:20 am
Reply to  Kosta

This is really random but is that Gabe Vincent being signed? It sort of looks like him with different hair. If so, that makes this picture that much more hilarious because he’s currently starting and playing great in the conference finals.

richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
May 21, 2022 1:10 am

IIRC, yes. I know that he played for the Stockton Kings.

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 20, 2022 12:31 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Vlade’s list keeps gettin’ funnier with age!

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 20, 2022 12:37 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

This makes me wonder: would we be better to have MPJ and his bloated contract compared to what we got with Bagley?

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 10:40 am

The Kings are in a place where there are many good options.

What is the most realistic way they Kangz it up?

SlamsonsRollerskates
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 10:47 am

Trade the 4th for the 5th and Bagley.

oswan88
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 12:35 pm

Lmaoooo

sonny
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
May 19, 2022 10:48 am

Pretty sure Mike Brown will not do this:

But this is so Kangzy – Whoever they pick will not be given the playing time that Kings fans want. And fail to develop and/or showcase his skills on the court!

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:41 am
Reply to  sonny

Who have they failed to develop?

rockbottom
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 2:27 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Vincent for example. Now starts for Heat and played last season for Stockton Kings . Not even invited to camp 😂

SlamsonsRollerskates
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 10:45 am

It seems most people think we will take a player at 4 or trade down for a pick and a Vet. I feel like I’m in the minority of thinking we will trade up. If we traded up from 4, what’s a realistic trade for the #1 pick?

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 10:56 am

#4 + Fox. Or #4 + a very lightly or unprotected future 1st.

Based mostly on the PHI – BOS 2017 trade. Then again in ’93 the cost of moving from #3 to #1 (to draft Webber) was 3 future 1sts.

Last edited 1 month ago by BestHyperboleEver
SlamsonsRollerskates
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 11:41 am

Wow, that’s an insane amount of value for the number 1. I’ll have to look up to see who the future firsts turned into. Without knowing, I’m guessing Webber was still worth more.

I would definitely do the second trade you proposed. If we were trading Fox though, I’d attach him to a lightly or unprotected future first and go for #1 while keeping #4.

cloudyeyes
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 2:35 pm

I would do #4 and unprotected future first for #1 any day. Reminds me of the move Dallas pulled to get Luka.

fossilizedflatus
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 3:22 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

who’s the prospect that you feel is “Luka” in this draft?

cloudyeyes
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 9:20 pm

Better question – what is it like having hindsight on Luka and nobody in this draft?

Barely anyone thought Luka was going to be THIS good – a once in a generation talent (in hindsight). The consensus was Ayton had a higher ceiling and Luka was the higher floor safe pick who seemed like he topped out skill wise. Argue about it all you want, that was the pre-draft mentality. A majority of us had Ayton as the top pick.

I’m not comparing anyone to Doncic, I’m comparing the trade. The #1 pick regardless is extremely valuable. The Mavs traded #5 and their unprotected pick the following year to move up to #3 for Doncic.

ForKingsandCountry
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 20, 2022 10:37 am
Reply to  cloudyeyes

I thought Luka was going to be this good. It was actually really obvious. He was the most decorated European prospect ever dominating grown men in the second best league in the world at 17 years old. A LOT of people thought Luka was going to be amazing. Sadly there were two dumb teams at the top of the draft and one slightly less dumb team that traded him. I don’t see any future MVP/best player in the league candidates in this draft.

rockbottom
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 5:23 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

There is no sure thing at 1 . This draft may turn out like most and have the best player taken in the teens .

Mephariel
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 8:45 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

I don’t see Luka in this draft.

cloudyeyes
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 9:22 pm
Reply to  Mephariel

Because we don’t have hindsight on this draft. That’s pretty obvious.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 20, 2022 10:36 am
Reply to  cloudyeyes

I don’t think that there were many of us that needed more than three seconds of hindsight to understand that Luka was not only the correct pick, but also the incredibly obvious one.

VD will wreck one’s thinking process.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 10:50 am

If the Kings can’t get reasonable return from Detroit or Indiana for swapping down to five or six, and the #4 pick isn’t used as part of a package to bring back a very good player, who do you like at four, assuming that the top three goes as expected?

I like any of Sharpe, Murray or Ivey with that pick, and even though Murray at four might be a tiny stretch, he sure seems like the type of player that McNair has gravitated to: Smart, hard-working, teachable, and hungry. He’s probably the most plug & play of the three, too.

As ever, a great problem to have, but that doesn’t make finding the answer particularly easy.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 10:57 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I don’t think 4 is a reach for Murray. I think he has as much claim to that slot as anyone else outside the top 3. And I think it’s the most likely outcome.

Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:15 am

Murray seems like the most safe pick there.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 11:17 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I could agree with that. He’d probably be considered the highest floor of the 3 guys being talked about (Ivey, Sharpe, Murray).

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 2:52 pm

I like Murray at #4. The other two are a tier below for me. I also like Grifffin at 4, or any of the consensus top 3. I’d probably shop anyone else pretty hard, unless they wowed in workouts. Workouts may be the main factor.

Last edited 1 month ago by Hamlet1989
richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 4:57 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

I’d say that Sharpe & Ivey are in the same tier as Murray. However, I don’t think Ivey’s a good fit w/Fox & I worry about not being able to see how well Sharpe would’ve done against college competition. At the same time, I worry that Murray has a lower ceiling than Sharpe & Ivey.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
May 19, 2022 11:17 am

IIRC, some folks thought Scottie Barnes was a reach at #4 when the Raptors passed on Suggs, who some thought was a top 3 pick. I could totally see that situation happening again with Murray being taken before Ivey.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 11:21 am
Reply to  Adamsite

“Some folks” are always going to think odd things. For what it’s worth, I still think Suggs will be good. The 2021 class had an unusual number of top picks that were good in year 1. That isn’t necessarily the norm. Suggs may just take a more conventional development path.

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 12:27 pm

Speaking of “odd things,” I’d still like to hear the rationale for “some folks” putting S. Sharpe ahead of a younger, bigger, more accomplished shooter/player named AJ Griffin.
“His knee doesn’t look healed yet” doesn’t sound like a valid reason to dis-qualify a teenager.
I mean like evidence, stats, something?!

Last edited 1 month ago by Hamlet1989
Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 12:31 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Not that I hold this opinion, I have heard…2 knee surgeries, looks to have lost some athleticism, below the rim player now, not quick, defense is suspect, stationary 3 point shooter, can’t move and relocate to catch and shoot.

There are many things with Sharpe too. He hasn’t played against big time competition, and the video available is all that people have. They go off “what could he become” and “will it translate”.

It’s draft season, nobody knows what the hell is going to happen.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
May 19, 2022 12:32 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

I have concerns about his defense. I feel is more of an offensive weapon but could be a liability on the other end of the floor.

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 1:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I think you’ll come around. He looked a little bored at Duke. He hasn’t shown out yet. I don’t know why he gets docked for playing experience, and Sharpe is assumed to have another level he hasn’t shown because he hasn’t competed on a big-time level.
The reason Sharpe is foregoing his eligibility is because he’s worth more as an unknown. If he thought his draft stock would improve with a year in college, he’d be playing at Kentucky this season. He’s hoping to take advantage now, of a team willing to bet on him before anyone sees him against high-level competition. I don’t understand how anyone can look at the Kings and see a franchise that can afford that kind of gamble.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 1:22 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

The problem is that Griffin looked bored during the NCAA title game, and other than one good game in an earlier round, he largely disappeared.

The knee issues obviously need to be taken into consideration, but his passivity and disappearance in big moments may also be a problem.

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 3:11 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I’m sure your not going anywhere either Andy. We’re probably both doomed to a life in the King-dom, and we’ll grow old together right here on TKH. I’ll get my chance to remind you of this conversation as well.

richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 5:01 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Um, Griffin didn’t play in the NCAA title game.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 6:40 pm
Reply to  richie88

Oops, you are right of course. I was referring to Duke’s last game, but that’s a pretty important distinction.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 12:47 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Griffin’s lack of current athleticism is a major issue. He’s a very good shooter, but beyond that he had a pretty poor year overall. He was a defensive liability, couldn’t get past anyone, wasn’t able to create anything for teammates, didn’t rebound well.

For me, his presence in the top 10 is entirely based on whether you believe his athleticism will come back and that will unlock his defense and broaden his offensive game.

Last edited 1 month ago by BestHyperboleEver
Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 12:57 pm

Thank you for your opinion. I dis-agree he had a “poor year overall.”
Still, no stats to support that opinion. I’ll take his size and strength over Sharpe’s hops, and a lot of question marks.
If what I saw in the tournament was a hobbled version of Griffin, then I like him even better.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 2:23 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

i mean, you can look at his stats. Everything outside of shooting % is really underwhelming. And the defensive issues were well documented. Heck, he was literally pulled from games in crunch time because of his trouble staying in front of people.

As I mentioned, I think we saw different tournaments. Aside from a hot (in low volume) 2nd half against Ark, he really struggled to make a mark on the games.

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 3:03 pm

I do think we saw him differently. Shooting % is very important and should not be overlooked or downplayed. He struggled defensively on the perimeter, and Duke didn’t need a lot of help around the basket. He’s definitely a front-court player, and at 18, he has progress to make. He’s a completely different player, and body-type from Sharpe. The Kings need more of his type of physicality, and less guys who need help from the refs.
I’ve been here for a couple years, and I’m not going anywhere. You’ll get a chance to remind me if I’m wrong.

rockbottom
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 2:32 pm

Agree about Suggs and may be available for a low price. He was the 3rd point guard at seasons end behind Fultz and Anthony .

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 3:58 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Suggs felt bafflingly overhyped in college. He looked like a pretty good player with the potential to have a career in the NBA, but he didn’t jump off the screen compared to a number of other players with similar attributes.

Gonzaga gets good players, and has produced some decent NBA talent, but more often than not, the marquee guys spend the winter getting fat on cupcakes and conference opponents. We are quite fortunate to have one of their best on our roster right now. I think that Hachimura has a pretty good chance at having a nice career, but he’ll likely need to leave DC to achieve it. Brandon Clarke is another possibility.

You have guys like Adam Morrison, Zach Collins, and Kelly Olynyk, lottery picks all, none of whom has ever lived up to the hype. Credit to KO, he’s turned himself into a serviceable player, but he’s never started games with any consistency.

As it relates to Holmgren, so much of whether he succeeds or not will be dependent on his ability to get stronger, and at least a little quicker. Even if he gets pushed around in the paint, his shooting and passing skills will likely make him a useful player, especially if he can hold his own on the defensive end. I’d compare the hype here to that of Porzingis, who is dinged up so often that even when he’s able to play, he’s seldom able to dominate in a way commensurate with his talent. I don’t know if I’d take him at #1, although if he’s still there at #4, you’d have to take him.

Fully aware John Stockton went to Gonzaga. And that’s your hall of fame guy, singular.

rockbottom
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 5:31 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Duke has produced a dozen lottery pick disappointments as well . Why judge the school ? Judge the player Curry went to Davidson and Klay to Wash State, Lilliard to Weber State

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 6:03 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Duke has produced a dozen lottery pick disappointments as well . Why judge the school ? 

Because it’s the school they chose, for starters. And, if they don’t develop into the players you hope, that’s part of the equation, too. It’s not like Sims is making any of this up.

While I don’t think Holmgren’s competition is the issue some make it out to be, I do think how Holmgren holds up over 82 is a legit concern. And what is Holmgren great at at the NBA level? That’s another concern for me.

There are reasonable concerns about Holmgren, IMO. Who he faced at Gonzaga isn’t one of them.

jwalker1395
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:52 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Doesn’t really answer your question but I’d really try to make it work with Detroit. I’d love to do #4+Barnes for #5+Bey. Seems like it would be a trade of Barnes+Ivey/Sharpe for Murray+Bey and I think those two would fill out the forward positions quite nicely for the next decade.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 12:04 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I wouldn’t say no to that, and it could easily play out as you suggest. Barnes would be a good pickup for a young team, and is also expiring, which won’t hurt. For Detroit, it’d be a matter of weighing their love for Bey against their hopes for whoever they select at four, if given the opportunity.

Hell, they might move up and take Murray, and we end up with Sharpe. I wouldn’t be upset about it.

oswan88
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 12:40 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I have a hard time seeing them letting go of Bey. Barnes doesn’t do much for them considering they aren’t in win now mode.

MichaelMack
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 12:58 pm
Reply to  oswan88

I think they like Bey as well. He certainly seems like he could be their starting PF for a while. That would be very surprising if they were using him as a chip like that for anything other than the top pick.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 6:06 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

I don’t see the Kings getting Bey in a 4 for 5 swap, either, FWIW.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
May 19, 2022 6:12 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I agree, you aren’t going to get that much of an additional asset in a one pick trade back. Maybe you could get a future lottery protected first, but I think that is about it.

Kings-Rebuild
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 6:23 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Hell no – no chance

TheGrantNapear
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 10:56 am

Give us your best realistic trade(s) involving the pick.

sonny
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
May 19, 2022 10:59 am

I personally think that Keegan Murray, if he doesn’t move up, is the best and safest pick at #4.

Do you agree?

Bbmuteman
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 10:59 am

Who’s the nostradumbass? 😉

Klam
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
May 19, 2022 11:57 am
Reply to  Bbmuteman

I’m curious to know too! Especially since the Google sheet link disappeared in the middle of the season.

Kosta
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 20, 2022 9:11 am
Reply to  Bbmuteman

Um, the REAL NOSTRADUMBASS would be able to predict the answer to your question, sir! 😛

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 11:08 am

Seems like a big weight has been taken off of Richaun’s shoulders this summer: is he worth keeping to see about fit as a back-up and/or increase trade, or should they look to move him this summer?

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 11:10 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

I’m guessing they won’t be especially motivated to trade Holmes, but if the right deal comes along, losing him won’t hold it up. I think they’d be perfectly happy going into best season with him on the roster.

Last edited 1 month ago by BestHyperboleEver
Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:19 am

I was thinking maybe trade him to Charlotte for Oubre and PJ Washington. Kings gets some wing depth and a look at those two guys, Charlotte gets a solid Center and allows them to develop Kai Jones and/or whomever they draft this season.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
May 19, 2022 11:32 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I think the Hornets are going to want to move Hayward before anyone else. I wonder if Monte would want to roll the dice on his health. If the Kings were to draft a wing or stretch 4 (Sharpe or Murray), would they consider trading Holmes and Barnes for Hayward if he came with a pick? The Hornets do have the #13 and #15

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 12:04 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

As you know, I would absolutely consider trading for Hayward assuming the additional assets for his contract are right. Which would basically be 2-3 quality assets. For example, the #13, Washington, and a future protected 1st.

The crazy, never going to happen deal I’ve been mulling over recently is a 3-way deal that sends Fox to WAS, Hayward + assets to SAC, and salary relief to CHA.

Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
May 19, 2022 12:29 pm

I think sending Barnes to the Hornets would qualify enough as salary relief for them. They are going to have to pay Bridges big money this summer and Barnes would only be on the books for next year. They’d have a massive payroll for one year, but would drop down below the tax line once Barnes and Oubre come off the books in the summer of 2023. Holmes would be the get for them as they desperately need a center. Acquiring Holmes also allows them to cut Plumlee’s non-guaranteed deal, saving them more cash.

I’d give serious consideration for Barnes and Holmes for Hayward and the #13, especially if there is someone around there that Monte likes. Sochan, Dieng, or Davis perhaps?

It would be even better if the Hornets could sweeten the deal with the addition of someone like Washington, but that might be pushing it.

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 3:29 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Sounds Good!

Jack
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 4:25 pm

What about Holmes and Metu plus #4 to the Knicks for Barrett and Quickly and #11. Would pick up Sochun or Eason as well.

richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 5:08 pm
Reply to  Jack

Ugh. I would be willing to drop down to #5 or #6 if a good deal is possible, but I wouldn’t want to drop down to #11.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 5:30 pm
Reply to  Jack

I doubt the Knicks would be interested in moving Barrett. I’m personally not a huge fan of him either, but I admit to being in the minority there, I think.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 6:09 pm

I don’t know how the community at large feels about Barrett, but I’m not a huge fan either.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kingsguru21
Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
May 19, 2022 6:19 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I kind of see him like a younger version of Harrison Barnes or a meh version of Andrew Wiggins, which means his possible addition is going to move the needle much.

Kingsguru21
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 6:30 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Oh goody.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 12:10 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

I think Holmes is going to start the season like his ass is on fire, as he’s fully motivated after being vindicated in regard to the false allegations from his partner. He’s still somewhat redundant with Sabonis, but my hope (again, season after season), is that Holmes is working hard to become a credible threat from three. If he can just shoot 35% or better, it really changes the capabilities of the offense, and lets him play alongside Domas.

Holmes shoots free throws well, and his mechanics are fine. I’m sure stretching the floor has been largely deemphasized for him by various teams, but I do believe that he’s capable.

oswan88
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 12:42 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

I’d look to trade him for cap space and a filler considering him and Sabonis don’t fit well together. That money could be used elsewhere.

Gregoryl
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 11:09 am

What do you think the Kings will do with the pick? Flip side, what should the Kings do with the pick?

jwalker1395
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:20 am

Jaden Ivey is a faster and worse shooting Ben McLemore change my mind

Last edited 1 month ago by Jacob Walker
BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 11:32 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

I don’t see it. For all his flaws and disappointments as an NBA player, Ben had a MUCH more shooting upside as a draft prospect. I think we forget that Ben was an exceptionally efficient scorer in college. As a freshman, he put up a .633 TS% shooting with .553/.420/.870 splits. For comparison, Ivey as a Sophomore just put up a .579 TS% with .531/.358/.744. As a Freshman he was .497 TS% on .508/.258/.726. And Ivey has basically zero mid-range or pull-up game.

Ultimately, Ben just didn’t process the game fast enough to let his strengths play up to expectations. I don’t think Ivey has game processing issues, so much as he has skill level issues.

jwalker1395
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:47 am

Is this to say Ivey is a better or worse prospect?

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 12:07 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Eh, if I were able to completely erase my knowledge of Ben’s NBA tenure and just think of Ben the draft prospect, I’d say Ben was a better prospect.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 12:16 pm

A lot of people said so, and six teams ahead of Sacramento saw through it. I was likely very pleased at the time to get McLemore, but Jesus, what a stiff. I honestly think that a lot of the blame for his failure to become a good NBA player is predicated on the fact that he’s not particularly bright.

Smarts aren’t necessarily required to be a star in the NBA, but I’ll take a less talented/gifted player with a big juicy brain over a comparable dumbass.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 12:18 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

BB smarts are absolutely necessary. Which are complete different than general intelligence.

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 1:25 pm

Let’s compromise and agree that Benny has neither.

rockbottom
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 2:41 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Always remember on McLemore draft nite that Vivek stated they attempted to trade up to get Ben and were excited he fell to 7 . 🥸

andy_sims
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
May 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

As were most of the people here who were around then.

SPTSJUNKIE
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
May 19, 2022 12:54 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I think that the setup of the question already shows that they are massively different prospects.

Ivey has legitimate speed that will allow him to beat defenders consistently in the NBA and has great body control. He hit 62% of his shots at the rim last season, despite every single defense knowing he was trying to get to the hoop and Edey / Williams often clogging the paint or serving as poor P&R partners. The best coaches in college basketball had the task of stopping Ivey from scoring at the rim and couldn’t do it.

He needs more counter-moves when his momentum is stopped, more mid-range game, and probably to tweak the form on his jumper to reach his potential. But he did hit 36% of his threes and 74% of his FTs, so he’s not a 2010 Tyreke Evans-level shooter.

And his defense was so-so overall this year, but that happens with a lot of top prospects who are the centerpiece of their team’s offense. When he was engaged, he was able to play some very strong defense and has the tools to be an impactful defender (length, strength, body control / change of direction speed, lateral quickness).

Now, I don’t know how I can convince you he won’t flop like Ben did. He does have risk associated with him. But I think Ivey has a high ceiling and probably a higher floor than he gets credit for (scoring guard off the bench with meh defense). I think there’s a reasonable case for Murray and Shape at #4 as well (and potentially Griffin if the medical staff believes he played this season at 50% recovering from injury), but I think Ivey is getting a big underrated at this stage (or at least should have a bit more hype).

jwalker1395
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 1:05 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

I’m not so much comparing them as individual players, but more making a statement that questionable defense, handling, motor, and IQ would be the undoing of an explosively athletic, offensive-minded guard.

SPTSJUNKIE
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Author
May 19, 2022 1:37 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Going by each component part:

Defense – Ivey’s tools and flashes are far better than Ben’s – though we can discuss if awareness is an issue (you laid out separately)

Handling – I don’t think this is even close. Ivey’s handles are strong, Ben’s were non-existent. I realize standards are higher for a PG or if you think Ben could have been an elite tertiary ball handler as an elite shooter. But I don’t think they are even in the same ball park.

Motor – Ivey moves a ton on offense and was both great on ball and was run in off ball action to get him moving downhill (sort of how Fox ran and benefited from Sabonis after the trade last year). There’s fair criticisms about him coasting on defense, but that is said of a lot of college stars (people said similar about Ball, Anthony, Luka, etc.). I don’t think overall motor is an issue here.

Awareness – I shy away from saying IQ nowadays as I think it’s a bit loaded. But this is a legitimate question. I would personally argue that Ivey is average (Fox-level in college) whereas Ben showed very very poor feel. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for Ivey to have plus feel given his role, but if he did, he might be the #1 pick.

would be the undoing of an explosively athletic, offensive-minded guard

Overall, I understand your point here, but I would hypothesize that Ben had good run and jump athleticism, but it really didn’t show up on how he played and his lack of handles prevented him from using his speed. Ivey as his warts, but his applied athleticism is much more apparent. He has the handles and body control to take advantage of his other athletic gifts.

This goes back to that point on his 62% shooting at the rim with only 19% assisted, despite every coach trying to stop him from getting to the rim. He has the handles, body control, and ability to slither through traffic and score from different angles. You can throw two help defender at him and he side steps them, contorts his body and gets up a good shot, whereas, if you watch someone like Griffin, they get a help defender in front of them and can’t really navigate them, which makes it easier to stop him driving inside.

cloudyeyes
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 2:43 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Ivey is also a much better ball handler, passer, finisher at the rim and has better decision making ability. I don’t get the comparison. McLemore was mostly just a 3 point specialist. If I had to compare, he looks more like Morant.

Last edited 1 month ago by cloudyeyes
richie88
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
Comments
Original Member
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 6:32 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

Ivey isn’t nearly as good of a playmaker as Morant.

NorCalKingsFan
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 6:38 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

He is nothing like Morant other than he drives to rim with reckless abandon

cloudyeyes
Comments
Comments
May 19, 2022 9:27 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

And has the same athleticism and a 3 point shot. But richie is right that Morant is a better playmaker. Ivey has shown flashes of good passing ability. Still way closer to Morant than compared with McLemore.

Last edited 1 month ago by cloudyeyes
Adamsite
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Nostradumbass 14
May 19, 2022 11:20 am

Which current guaranteed salaried King do you not expect to see in a Sacramento uniform to start the season? Also, which current non-King in the league do you expect to see in a Sacramento uniform to start the season?

jwalker1395
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:27 am

Who of the top 3 is most likely to slip? And if it’s Banchero, how likely is he to become the Kings next terrible draft decision?

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 11:33 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

IF the Kings get Banchero, I’ll be thrilled. If he falls and becomes a terrible decision by the Kings, it will be because they decide NOT to draft him.

Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:39 am

His skill level is amazing. He is not flashy and the 3 isn’t there yet, but he does so much more.

BestHyperboleEver
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
Patreon Supporter
Comments
Vote Up
Original Member
May 19, 2022 12:31 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I can’t find the stats, but I’d be really interested to see CnS vs Pull-up break downs. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see:
A. That Banchero’s CnS 3pt percentage was solid-to-good
B. That his 3pt mix leaned MUCH farther towards Pull-ups than the other top prospects.

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 3:32 pm

That’s the dream scenario, that one of the top three falls. I think any of them would make the decision pretty easy!

Hamlet1989
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 3:33 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Truly the BB gods have smiled upon us with the #4!

jwalker1395
Comments
Vote Up
Comments
Vote Up
May 19, 2022 11:45 am

I like Banchero as a prospect fwiw. I just think he doesn’t fit here, and it’s one of those situations where getting drafted by the Kings would ruin his career at the expense of the organization, again.

Hobby916
Comments
Vote Up