Welcome back to another edition of Chainmail, the only Sacramento Kings mailbag exclusively typed up by ungulate hooves. We’re here to talk offseason targets, possible Buddy Hield trades, pending free agents on the roster, draft night strategies, GM candidates, and whatever else is swirling around in your Kings-obsessed mind.
We also want to thank our sponsor for the mailbag, Carter Imports! Carter Imports is a Sacramento-based company that imports some of the very best Extra Virgin Olive Oil and Cretan Thyme Honey available in the world today. There has never been a better time to support one of our own than right now!
Now get asking so we can get answering!
Hi, my name is Rob, first time caller, long time listener, love the show. I’ll take your answer off line…
Each of you name one player that you think will be there at #12 that you would love to have, one player at #12 that you would hate to have, and one player at #12 that would have you thinking that the ghost of Vlade Divac is still roaming the halls.
My early answer for #3 is Precious Achiuwa. 6’9” PF/C who can’t shoot and has just over a 0.3 A/T, but who gets a ton of points and rebounds. Could develop into a good big, but will likely some real development and even then maybe less valuable than similarly talented wings in the modern NBA.
To be fair, that’s not nearly as bad at #12 as it is at #2, but still, seems to have ghost of Vlade written all over it.
I guess I’d have to start by figuring out who I think will be there. Quick mock leaving out trades because that adds too many variables: Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Hayes, Avdija, Haliburton, Hayes, Lewis, Vassell, Toppin, Bey. So the highest ranked guys left behind are Okungwu, Okoro, Nesmith, Williams, Hampton, Precious, Anthony, etc.
Love: Poku
Like: Okoro, Okungwu
Meh: Nesmith
Hate: Williams, Precious, Hampton, Anthony, Maxey, etc.
Reaches I’d prefer to the Mehs and Hates: Tillman, Bane, Bolmaro
Vlade: Precious
On what are you basing your evaluation of Poku? I can’t find much on the net about him other than some highlights which sort of bring a young Josh McRoberts to mind.
Mostly scouting reports and videos. You can find a few full youth FIBA games and Olympiakos B games online. The Kings Pulse pod was pretty great.
As I mentioned below, while I think Poku shows some things McRoberts never did (better handle, more shooting off movement, etc), a healthy McRoberts with better mentality would be an excellent player.
Yeah, I saw that podcast after I commented. I’m still not sold on him at 12. I’d be interested if they got him in the 2nd and stashed him.
I’d try to stash him either way.
I don’t see the Okoro either. On offense he reminds me of like Ray Jackson from the fab5. It really stands out how erratic he is. And on D, his numbers (1 steal pg, 1 block pg vs. 3 fouls pg) don’t back up his hyped billing as a defensive specialist.
His defense is good by eye test. He moves his feet exceptionally well and is always dialed in and in a stance. On offense he’s a good downhill player. My issue with him is that he seems to have zero touch. Which makes me really skeptical if he’ll ever be a passable shooter.
And Okongwu looks like he should return to school. If he is going to be an NBA player he will have to do it as a skilled player because his body language and natural demeanor are that of a finesse guy who shies away from contact like Skal Labissiere, but Okongwu lacks skills like dribbling, shooting, passing and court awareness. The athletic dunks and some shot blocking are deceiving in the way that it was for Devon Harden for Cal who was a really really bad player, even in college. He has to return to school and work on his game if he wants to be a good nba player.
I think the “reaches” category is a misnomer. they are the opposite of reaches. they are safer picks, you know a little more about who they are and what you’re getting. You know they will belong in the nba. You like their game. If you draft those kinds of players with all four picks, I bet you would be happy.
“Reach” just refers to a team reaching farther from their draft position that expected to grab a guy at the prospect’s projected position. Me calling them a reach doesn’t say anything about how good or safe they are as a prospect. Just that projections have them going later in the draft.
At #12 – we seem to be in a position where there maybe a few players available who have a very high probability of developing into high end role players. Players like Vassell, Nesmith, and Green are arguably prototypical 3-D players to differing degrees (some better shooters, some better defenders, but all credible at both) with NBA builds and physical traits / athleticism. However, barring outlier development, they likely have lower ceilings as high end starters. Additionally, there are some prospects like Williams and Poku who have higher ceilings, but who could either be out of the league in 5 years or at least playing a very limited role when they are becoming RFAs. Our franchise has two issues – we have a lack of star power and we have whiffed on so many assets that we don’t have a ton of great trade capital.
So if you were GM, regardless of the exact player you would pick – strategically, would you prioritize trying to swing for the fences at #12 for a 10% chance at hitting a home run or would you draft a player you believe could be a solid starter and be happy with an 80% chance of hitting a double?
Another problem has been our bad track record in developing players. I know that Vlade and Peja (bless their lungs) are gone, but that is probably not something that is remedied overnight.
I realize that I may be in the minority here, but while I think our coaching could have used players better – I still don’t know that we have had any issues with development.
Now that players are making millions and most teams have developmental coaches – most motivated players can improve.
We have complained about development here for the last 14 years and yet in hindsight – we mostly drafted really badly. We have had a lot of players leave us and go to better franchises and outside of Whiteside, I can’t think of a single player who did not develop here, but who did elsewhere. And Whiteside had to go to multiple teams, play overseas, and come back on a 10 day contract – and I personally think he was the issue more than any of those teams.
But even someone like IT who was an all star with Boston – if you look at his time here, he improved a lot and had stellar advanced metrics by the time Pete let him go for nothing.
Our real issue has been drafting poorly and then at times using players poorly so it doesn’t cater to their strengths such as Buddy Hield, who again arguably did develop here and looked fantastic under Joerger before Walton started using point-Buddy this season.
I think the Kings have a long history of playing players out of position. Tyreke Evans is a prime example. His USG% went down every year as a King, where they really should have developed him as a lead guard and better surrounded him with shooters.
Yeah, I think a lot of what we often talk about when it comes to “development” is less about teaching guys skills and more about:
A) Identifying guys with the desire and capability to improve. All players do not have the same capacity for improvement no matter how hard they may work.
B) Putting players in the right positions and giving them the right opportunities to succeed.
I don’t really believe any one team is better than another at, say, improving Hield’s handle or Fox’s shot.
I’d disagree with B a bit. A team like the Spurs knows how to best utilize their players while maximizing their strengths and hiding their weaknesses. I’d argue that they definitely “develop” players at another level than the Kings. They also get every bit of blood out of acquired vets. See: Marco Belinelli and Rudy Gay
I was probably unclear in my wording, but in my head my B agrees with what you said.
I think this gets to the point though – they are better at finding guys who fit their system. I’m not wholly convinced they are masters of developing players. And even if we concede they are, they are sort of the pinnacle of the NBA – but I am not convinced that we are any worse at developing players than 90% of teams.
Even at our absolutely messiest – we saw guys like IT, Evans, and Cousins all improve while they were here. And virtually all of the busts we have drafted have been awful elsewhere. And while you might argue the first 3-4 years of a player’s career are the most influential – even guys like TRob, Nik, and Jimmer who were her for a short time flopped elsewhere.
And while it’s any theoretical here would be counterfactual – I’m curious who people would identify as players the Spurs developed who weren’t just great draft picks. I think Tony Parker, Manu, and George Hill were examples of great scouting and drafting. But the Spurs have just as many guys like James Anderson, Francisco Oberto, and Jonathan Simmons who they fit very well into their system in a hyper-specific role while surrounded by stars, but who went elsewhere and were pretty unimpressive players where it is hard to say the Spurs developed them, so much as they have been very smart about establishing a system, getting stars via great drafts / trades / signings, and then filling in with the right types of skill / character / high basketball IQ players for their system.
I am aware at some level – this is just a fun message board discussion and we could argue that development versus usage is a distinction without a difference. I think we all agree the Spurs have been a much, much better run and coached organization than we are.
But the development point has become a curiosity of mine as the Kings have invested a lot into development and I’ve noticed that when teams draft poorly their fans’ first instinct is to blame their teams’ development – when typically, they have just picked bad NBA basketball players and / or have a mess of a system.
I’d say Vassell is the only prototypical 3-and-D guy there, since he’s the only guy that projects to be above average at both of those disciplines. I don’t think Nesmith is likely to ever be more than average on D, and Green the same with the 3.
Understand the argument for Nesmith (which is why I said some better at one aspect than another), but he’s an ace shooter who is long and has the lateral speed to be switchable.
Not sure I agree on Green though – he doesn’t project to be the scorer of a Nesmith, but he hit 36% of his threes and 78% of FTs last season as a freshman. And while I realize most people don’t have access to Synergy – he was 78% percentile for spot up, 85% percentile for catch and shoot, and 94% percentile for unguarded catch and shoot (though 17th for guarded). So long as he has a halfway decent work ethic, he should be a good three point shooter – though perhaps not running off screens or off the dribble like Nesmith and Vassell.
Yeah, I just don’t really buy Green as a high level shooter. His game feel is pretty suspect so I’m not sure he’s going to be much of an NBA shooter. Perhaps limited to open C&S. Which doesn’t make a very interesting package to me.
I could obviously be very wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time.
One thing that Green goes have in spades that goes a long way with me is a high motor and he obviously cares about playing defense.
I mean open catch and shoot is part of being a prototypical 3-D role player.
If he could also shoot like Nesmith, he’d be a much more intriguing prospect.
Sure. It’s just a lower-level version of the prototype and one that I don’t think is all that hard to find or moves the needle that much for a team like the Kings.
This sort of gets back to the fundamental question asked above – not that they are the same player – but you are sort of describing Anunoby who has been huge for Toronto. Adding a cheap player who can switch on the perimeter and guard 4 positions to varying degrees has value.
Not a HR, but as asset that can be accumulated and adds a new dimension to the team.
Which is why the original question is at #12, if you would choose to swing for a double and add a piece to the team and build our total assets or swing for a HR and have that 10-15% chance we add a real difference-maker, but also a much higher chance the player never really develops and their trade value plummets quickly.
That a tough decision, but I think I’d swing for the fences. I really don’t think you are going to find an Anunoby type in this draft at #12. I’m thinking you get more of a Francisco Garcia type at #12. Yes he’d may be a solid role player, especially to a contending team, but to a shit team like the Kings, you need a hero.
It’s a great and well backed perspective. This isn’t a question with a single right answer, so I was mostly curious what the pulse was here.
I mean Denver was built through finding a HR outside of the early lottery (though at later than 12 where maybe Jokic was a good risk-adjusted pick). Ditto for the Jazz.
Boston and arguably Houston were built through accumulating assets and then flipping them for star players.
I don’t think there is a single formula, but multiple paths where I am curious what a lot of different, smart fans (and TKH writers) think.
I think another wrinkle to this dilemma is who is making the pick. If it is newly hired GM with full scouting reports or Dumars doing it on the cheap.
If a new GM with a full scout team, player interviews, workouts, etc. determines to make a pick that is going to be a solid role player, I’m behind it.
If it is Dumars with a skeleton crew simply picking who they feel is BPA, I’d balk at the choice and the reasoning behind it.
Full disclosure, this is why I want a GM sooner than later.
I think a new trend which I don’t know is sustainable long term quite yet is having a max contract as a purely tradeable asset. Look at the contracts like Chris Paul, Wiggins, DeAngelo Russell, Westbrook. All were used to acquire other max contracts along with picks.
I mean the Clippers and Rockets look good now, but what if they don’t win a ring in the next couple years?
Yeah, they have zero draft assets in eh cupboard, but they also didn’t build through the draft. It helps when you have owners who are willing to spend and GM’s with brass balls.
Yeah, I’d swing for the fences. Almost always. I think Green types can be had on the cheap. For example, I’m not sure Green is a meaningfully better prospect than Cassius Stanley, who can almost certainly be had in the 2nd. And would be on a cheaper deal, thus a better trade chip if he pans out.
Oh course, in baseball, doubles aren’t really any easier to hit than HRs, sooooo…
I’ll also point at that Anunoby was a different tier of defensive prospect. He offered Green’s athleticism with enough height, length and strength to defend 4s and even many 5s at times.
See above with Adamsite – not sure there is a right answers as teams have done this both directions, but your point is well made and exactly what I was curious to hear – with the caveat not to get too caught up on Green. I mean, imagine Vassell was there at #12.
He’s probably not ever going to be a star player, but he could be a high end starter. So if I guaranteed you today that Vassell would be a 10 year plus starter, but would never be better than the 3rd best player on a playoff team, whereas Player Y (let’s not get caught up on names) had a 50% chance of flopping out of the league, 30% chance of being a bench player, 10% chance of being a starter of Vassell’s quality, and 10% chance of being a star – do you still swing for a HR?
At this point I don’t care if a guy can shoot or not. I want a guy with a high motor, toughness and who has the ability to set solid picks, pass and rebound. I’m tired of how soft our team is, we need an alpha with some grit.
Having said all that, I haven’t followed any of the prospects available this year, simply because life has been all wonky, so I don’t know if there’s anyone available who fits the mold. ð¤·ð»ï¸
Take a look at Xavier Tillman. Projected 2nd rounder in mock drafts who I think will climb up the boards into the lottery.
Nice find! Sounds exactly like a guy I’d like to see in our team;
Despite being undersized and lacking a jumper at this stage, his physicality, defensive acumen and impressive passing chops differentiate him from this draft’s other bigs in a meaningful way, according to Sports Illustrated.
Winston is picked as high as No. 28, to the Los Angeles Lakers, by NBC Sports. ESPN and has him going No. 29 to the Toronto Raptors.
If you were a tree…
If we all fake the funk, will Vivek’s nose grow?
It’s been over 2 weeks since Vlade and Peja left town. Why haven’t we heard any rumors or leaks from a normally rumor filled and leaky Kings franchise on who they are interviewing or are researching for the empty GM position.
Tim is with me.
https://twitter.com/TimMaxwell22/status/1300504982207176704
Here’s my thing – with so many unknowns, this is going to be as complex of an offseason as we’ve seen in recent NBA history. Would be nice to get the FO in place ASAP so they can start tackling it.
Assuming Walton is indeed safe going into next season, who will Dumars (or the new GM) force on Luke as his new lead assistant? Will it be a former HC like Gentry, McMillan, Fizdale; or a younger, up-and-coming assistant from another organization?
If I’m the new GM, I would think the only fair way to do it is to let Luke pick his own lead assistant. I mean, that’s probably the best way to show that his job is in fact safe.
OKthe new GM, who doesn’t get to pick his own HC right away, should be fair to Luke to make him feel safe?
to be clear, I’m not strictly for Walton staying on as coach. But if that’s the directive, if he’s still coach, he should get to choose his lead assistant. Or at the very least be a heavy voice involved in the process.
The Kings currently have 9 players under contract for next season: Fox, Barnes, Buddy, Holmes, Joseph, Bagley, Parker (PO), Nemanja (partial guarantee), and James.
Assuming they bring back a few of their free agents: Bogi, Jeffries, Giles, Guy or Len, the roster is going to be near full. Now add in the fact that they have four draft picks in the draft that will take up more roster spots.
From all that, and barring any trades, will the Kings be a player in free agency, or more importantly, should they?
What would it take for Walton to resign so we can save some money? Could Vivek duplicate what he did with his past 2 GMs by making the lead assistant coach more powerful than the actual head coach to force Walton to step aside? Also do we know how much money Vivek had to pay to buy out Vlade’s remaining contract?
What is De’Aaron Fox’s trade value? Do you think it will ever be higher, given the fact he will likely have an extension kicking in 2021-22 around $30M/year?
My favorite trade scenario as an example: Fox, Hield, Parker to NYK for 2020 1st (#8), Ntilikina, Gibson, Portis, Robinson, and NYK 2021 unprotected 1st (which they can trade because they have Dallas’ 1st that year).
Think we can do better, or is that asking too much? (Just using that trade as a starting point for discussion).
I think IF they went that way, we could probably get a bit more. That said, I’m not all that interested in having two lottery picks in this draft. I’d much rather add the #27 (I think) in this draft PLUS another in one of the next few drafts. Or do yours and immediately start looking to move #8 and/or #12 in another deal.
Yeah I’m thinking if Halliburton is there at 8, I keep the pick.
Admittingly, I have a small crush on Haliburton, so if I were GMing the Kings and Haliburton is there at #8, I’m calling up the Knicks and dangling Fox, but would also insist on their 2021 pick. Structure the package however you want from there.
Yep the 2021 is a must have in any Fox deal.
I think the Knicks are about the only team with the interest and possible assets to swing a Fox trade. It would begin and end with their unprotected 2021 pick as an inclusion. I’d insists on Ntilikina, Robinson and possibly Randle as being part of the package.
All that being said, it has about a 1% chance of happening. I don’t think either team makes that trade.
I think if a smart GM comes in, they might see that this team really doesn’t have much of a ceiling. So we will be wasting prime years of good players to stay in NBA purgatory.
But yeah, the chances of a forward-thinking GM coming to this shitshow with Luke Walton promised another year are slim.
I’d rather have expiring than Randle but that conversation isn’t really what would make or break the deal for me.
I just kind of like Randle’s game. I’d start him with Robinson in that hypothetical trade, then surround them with shooters.
A couple of those shooters better be extremely high level playmakers.
That’s where I’d hope Haliburton is there at #8 and you also get him. But also keep in mind, it’s not about winning next season. It’s letting the GM evaluate the team and using that NY pick in 2021. Kings may get two top 5 picks in 2021. Their own and NY’s
That would just be insane. And it’s possibly right there for the taking.
But in that case, what is Randle doing for you? Aside from being an expiring in 2021-2022? Wouldn’t you rather have that expiring this season for the incoming GM to work with?
Solid point.
I could see them wanting to include Randle because they would want free agent capital in 2021. But I’d rather not include him if I’m the Kings.
I read somewhere. It may have been hypothetical, but decent read. GS #2 pick for Bagley and our 12th pick. ð¤ð¤ð¤
Edwards????
Fox with Bogi (for now) and Edwards on the wing. The league is getting smaller. That doesn’t sound too bad.
If I were the Warriors I’d call up the Knicks with a straight pick swap. Golden States #2 this year for the Knicks 2021 pick next year. Knicks would draft Ball and the Warriors get to kick the asset can down the road a year. Just think…they’d have Minny’s pick, NY’s pick and Wiggins to dangle for a superstar. You just know they’d be calling the Bucks if Milwaukee doesn’t win it all this year.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they could get Robinson in that swap as well. Who could suit them pretty well.
Hell yeah it would. I could see them swindling the Knicks like that. Warriors could throw in one of their own future firsts to sweeten the deal.
Man if the Warriors do that, I just give up. All the success of the Dubs, and then they get another franchise talent like Cade Cunningham. Just stop it already.
I think their window is closing with Curry, Klay and Green. I think they’d use those two 2021 lotto picks next year (I fully expect Minny and the Knicks to be in the lotto) and Wiggins contract to land a star in a trade. They’d then be a lock for another title next season.
I think it will be really interesting to see exactly where they end up deciding to go on the spectrum from “Win a ring now” to “stay in the contender conversation for the next decade.”
I’d be really interested to see if they try to split the middle by using anything OTHER than the MIN pick to try to improve their team as much as possible now.
I’m also scared they may use that Minny pick and Green to land someone like Myles Turner.
I bet they could get Turner and still hold on to that MIN pick. #2 + Wiggins + a couple future GSW picks may do it.
On the other ha…Oh shit, they’re going to acquire Oladipo on the cheap, aren’t they?
Yep, they’re going to trade #2 for #8 + Robinson. Then flip #8 + Future GSW 1st + Wiggins for Oladipo.
And STILL have the MIN pick
Shhhhhh! Stop giving them ideas. There may be spies among us!
They really can do some damage in trade with that #2 and Minny’s pick. Must be nice to have those kind of assets AND all that talent.
I think the most terrifying possibility is if they’re somehow able to acquire Simmons without giving up the MIN pick. Like Draymond + Wiggins + 2020 #2 + 2021 GSW 1st + 2023 GSW 1st for Simmons + Horford.
Curry, Klay, _______, Simmons, Horford is one hell of a start. A decent 3-and-D guy in that empty space makes for a title favorite.
I don’t really know why, but I’m not a fan of Simmons on the Warriors. They run on a system of shooters with Curry threading the needle. How would Simmons work for them? Would they be running Curry off the ball?
He’s basically a better, younger, higher upside Draymond. He’s a DPOY level 1-5 defender who’s a plus passer and rebounder. And that’s assuming he never starts shooting at all.
Ahhh, that makes sense. Thanks for that clarification.
plus, Draymond and Embiid on the same team is must see TV.
Curry, Klay, Dipo, Green, & Robinson. Plus getting rid of Wiggins and a likely top 10 pick next year. Man, that team could be on their way to another title or two and playoffs for another 5-7 years.
I could see Curry and Klay being productive for another 5 years. Draymond maybe not as much.
I can see it, but they probably shouldn’t plan on it.
I think maybe 3 years. Curry and Klay are on the wrong side of 30 (Curry turns 33 next season) and have a lot of miles on those legs. They’d have their shooting, but if they lose a step…
Very true.
If Bagley is a bust, and Doncic continues to be a superstar, possible HOF, etc., Vlade’s rep in Sacramento will be the guy who passed on Luka, right??
will be?
already is
They’re only superficially similar. As you mention, LaMelo doesn’t have the polish or technique. They both have elite vision but LaMelo struggles with decision making. And LaMelo hasn’t had anything approaching the high level success Luka had. And the degree to which their 3pt shooting is was questionable wasn’t especially close.
LaMelo is Luka with a lifetime of bad coaching..
How much is there to the rumors about Bagley’s shoes being a factor in his injury history?
With this year’s ballroom playoffs being a regular Who’s Who of ex-Kings, which current King is a lock to be starring in the playoffs next year for another team?
Hield and/or Bogdan are probably the easy favorites.
Yup, I’d go with Bogi. He’ll somehow be a Spur, and they will be back in the playoffs.
I’m not sure I’d put any money on the Spurs being in the playoffs next season. Unless, of course, they pull a total coup of a trade or a insta-grow-Giannis draft pick out of their hat.
Yeah, you are probably right. They are kind of on the bubble, but with a healthy Aldridge and the growth of solid young guys in White, Murray, and Walker they may squeak in.
Part of me wonders if DeRozan opts out for one more large contract. That dude is already 31
I wonder what DeRozan’s contract would look like. I would expect his annual to go down significantly, but he may like the stability and total earnings more.
Yeah, I could see something like a 4 year $70M deal for him. His all-star days are passed, so he should come cheaper annually.
By the way,
Barnes + 43 for Ariza (buy out @ 1.8MM) + Hood (assuming he opts in) + 16
does that keep Portland from re-signing Melo though?
It shouldn’t money-wise. I’m not sure it should personnel wise either. They need a passable wing defender that isn’t a total zero on offense in the worst way. Carmelo certainly isn’t that. He would almost certainly be best used as an offensive focal point off the bench at this point in his career.
I think they may just run with Trent Jr. He played quite a bit with Lillard and CJ on the court
I like it, but I’m not sure Portland bites. I feel like Barnes’ value isn’t very high since you can get close to his production at a fraction of the cost.
I do like his fit with the Magic though. I think that’s a team that might be willing to sell off some prospects for a solid wing type, and I like what they could offer us a little more.
Barnes, Bagley, Bjelica for Fournier, Bamba, Aminu & Isaac. We can throw in #12 or swap with #15 for a sweetener.
Why does Orlando get rid of Isaac? They can sign him to a cheap extension this offseason while he sits and rehabs his knee next year. He’s all NBA defense when healthy.
Yeah, I don’t think they want to move Isaac. But you might be able to get him in a Buddy trade, especially if Fournier walks.
I don’t think they necessarily want to get rid of him, but if they want to compete next year, I think there’s a possibility he could get moved for the right price.
It depends what they think of Bagley, but they have done pretty well in a reclamation project with Fultz.
Vucevic, Gordon, Barnes, Ross, Fultz is I think pretty formidable in the East. And Bags and Bjelly for your benchmob front court could be decent.
When I look at it, we’d probably have to include #12 in the deal, but maybe getting rid of Aminu’s contract is a plus for them as well.
I really like what this trade does for the Kings, but yeah not sure what direction Orlando might go in.
I don’t know. I don’t think they’ll sell low on Isaac. I don’t really have much interest in Bamba. I simply don’t think he has the awareness to be more than a 10-15 minute match-up guy on a decent team. Fournier is fine as a placeholder/expiring (though you just know they’ll overpay to keep him). Aminu is, well, I guess I’d rather pay his contract than give something similar to Bazemore. So there’s that.
I guess I just don’t see this deal advancing the Kings toward any positive end. I don’t think them better now or in the future.
It’s possible that they’re not listening on Isaac, but I’m still asking. If he’s off the table, then I’d sub out Isaac for their 2021 1st. Might be in the low 20’s, but still should have good value. And maybe if Isaac is out, I’m taking our #12 off the table. So now we’re looking at:
Barnes+Bagley+Bjelly for Fournier+Bamba+Aminu+2021 1st.
We’d be freeing up long-term money and if used in conjunction with the above Fox trade, we’d have 3 picks in the 2021 draft (two of them likely top 10).
This assumes that Fournier opts into his deal.
I’m not sure I see them doing that. No reason to move Isaac. Gordon plays the same 3/4 position and can defend the 3 as good or better than Barnes. They also should have Okeke coming in this year.
I will say that IF you’re looking at a deal with the Magic, I would target Okeke.
I forgot about Okeke! Why isn’t he listed on their roster? He was drafted by them, but is not on their salary sheet.
They got creative so they wouldn’t have to pay him to rehab his first year. Basically, they all agreed to have him sign a g-league deal while they retained rights. In return, they’ll sign him to 120% of the rookie scale amount. So they get to retain control but not pay for his rehab or burn their team-control, while he gets a larger rookie deal next season. Though that was before COVID. I’m not sure how this will all impact the rookie scale.
That is creative. So, sort of like a draft and stash, only they didn’t stash him in an overseas league. I didn’t realize this was allowed.
I’d definitely inquire about Okeke, but they seem unlikely to trade him when they stashed him for a year. They will want to see what they have. Similar to the Giles hype when he red-shirted…
We know who the coach will be next year and a GM search is underway…
When will the team decide on a VP of Basketball Ops? If Dumars is only interim there would need to be a permanent replacement, right?
People keep talking about how stacked the 2021 draft class will be. How do you think the likely cancellation (or patchwork cancellation) of college basketball this year will affect the next draft class and subsequent draft/season planning? There’s likely to be a scenario where different prospects will get different levels of training, development, and gameplay, to say nothing of the risks involved for players in general as we move into fall and winter.
First and foremost, I’m all in favor of a rebuild, trading Hield, Barnes, and/or sign and trading Bogi for picks and young assets, but IF this FO wants one more go-round with this core than what are your thoughts on the following trade?
Kings receive: Victor Oladipo, TJ McConnell, TJ Leaf, 2021 lottery protected 1st
Pacers receive: Buddy Hield, Jabari Parker, 12th overall pick, any of our 2nd rounders this year
Oladipo, although coming off injury, is more than a year removed from it, a former All-Star, and unhappy in Indy. Also, he’s the anti-Buddy, plays D, can be the secondary ball handler, and can make pull-up 3s and big shots.
Oladipo is worth more than that. Take out the 2021 protected 1st and the Pacers still say no.
I agree with Adamsite too much for sac spare parts.
I do some good thinking while taking a….. a nap, yeah that’s it a nap! When I was taking a nap yesterday I thought about this trade…. or separate trades. Buddy to Houston for Covington… Covington to GS for the 2 or pick swap. No way Houston trades to GS but… I think Covington is the guy that can replace Iggy, and that 2 is a crapshoot. Thoughts ?
Covington is not worth the #2 and there is no way for them to absorb his deal without giving salary back, which they can’t. Also, Houston has no need for Buddy with both McLemore and Gordon on the books for less money next year.
Hield and the #12 pick aren’t spare parts in my opinion. Oladipo wants out of Indy weakening their leverage it seems and he’s a one year rental, his value is lower than ever right now.
ya if the Kings add their 2021 first to that, the Pacers still probably say no.
Whoever is trading for Oladipo is taking a chance on a player who did not look like himself when he came back and who is also on a 1 year deal so it could be a rental. Therefore his value is not as high as it would seem right now
I could see that, maybe, if Pacers don’t like the future with Oladipo . I still don’t see return value for a meh Pacers team adding a meh Buddy, and a meh 12 pick. But any opportunity to turn two mehs into a potential all star is worth looking at.
The Kimgs are taking a chance on Oladipo themselves as well
What is the speculative interest for a base trade of: Atlanta acquiring Buddy Hield in exchange for their #6 overall pick? Another player, our first rounder, or both would be added to consumate the deal if there was any traction on Atlanta’s end. Hield with Young and that Atlanta team could be scary. Plus, they’re both former Sooners.
If there is any truth to this rumor, I feel the Kings should be all over it. I’ve mentioned here and on Twitter that if the Kings could get Huerter in the package that would be great.
The issues I see to a Hield for #6 package are the contracts. If Buddy is traded before free agency, he is still on his rookie contract. From what I understand there are some complications in trading him before his extension kicks in. Can anyone answer this cap issue? If he is traded once he is on his extension contract, ATL will need to send salary back.
I don’t think it’s toooooo complicated. I just think that in matching salaries you have to use the average salary of his extension years. So Hield’s contract is treated like the $22-23MM per year deal it will be.
I think.
I know there is no more poison pill provision, right? So ATL would still need to send a good amount of salary back. From that, I don’t think they can.
From that, I wouldn’t mind draft pick trades being counted as salary. I mean, shouldn’t the #6 pick in this draft have a weighted salary value? Maybe it does and I’m just not aware of it.
Without knowing the logistics on salaries matching up and when based on extension kick in, what’s the appetite for a Huerter and 6 for buddy and the 12th. I’m not sure buddy straight up is worth the 6 for Atlanta, but maybe Atlanta is willing to backslide a little and still get good value at 12 while acquiring buddy. Gives the Kings a more realistic shot at those second tier guys and getting a good young player in huerter.
Hilarious plot twists abound with Dewayne Dedmon and his trade exception we have. Bring him back…
I don’t think the trade happens. The players that could, potentially, maybe make sense have salaries that seem like a murky match at best in a trade (Hield and Dedmon), but then again I’m no Ken “Settlers of” Catanella. I just fart around on the trade machine. To me the trade mostly makes sense but for Atlanta does Hield change the growth of Reddish for the better? And to an extent, the young trio of Young, Collins, and Reddish? Unless I’m missing something and Reddish is expendable.
Who knows? Maybe Atlanta wants to immediately add points to their 17th ranked offense (PPG). I feel like improving the last ranked defense (PPG) will be their biggest priority and Hield doesn’t exactly accomplish that. If they like a guy at 12 though…
Maybe this has already been asked.
If you were to trade Buddy.
What player, pick in this draft, or combo thereof, would you trade Buddy for?
Best reasonable deal (high hope) and least reasonable deal (meh but better than keeping Buddy)
Has the dominant play of lead guards who can shoot in the playoffs (Lillard, Murray, Mitchell) changed your opinion on drafting or building a team moving forward?
I know Fox is the PG but I am of the opinion that we can run a 2 guard lineup even if its a smaller backcourt than traditional standards. With Fox’s size and athleticism I dont see a big drop off defensively especially if we have good sized wings like Jeffries/Barnes . The Warrioirs did this with Ellis and Curry until they made a choice on how to move forward.
I have moved off the Pat Williams bandwagon and have kind of just felt the need to draft someone who has NBA level shooting ability along with skills in other areas. Im leaning more toward a mixture 12)Tyrell Terry/35) Tillman, or 12)Jalen Smith/35) Flynn.
Great question.
Not really. I mean, we’re talking about very different situations. Murray and Mitchell both have the size and length to guard traditional 2s. Fox is average size for a PG. Lillard/McCollum is probably the best pro argument, but both of them are strong off-ball players as well. As we know, even that’s not an ideal situation, but if one of them is as good as Lillard you deal with it. But you don’t go seeking it out.
As for Curry/Ellis, yeah the Warriors did it. It lasted 2.5 seasons and there were not good. It wasn’t until they moved Ellis for Bogut (among other moves) that the Warriors turned the corner.
So, ultimately, sure if you think there’s a superstar guard available, you don’t really worry about the match with Fox. You just draft them and deal with it later. But that isn’t an opinion shaped or changed by these playoffs.
Are Mitchell or Murray any bigger than Fox? What about the Pels, or current OKC team? They are running a two guard lineup.
This leads me to my dream Haliburton/Fox lineup.
Mitchell is 6’2 but strong and with something like a 6’10 wingspan. Murray is a couple inches taller than Fox with a larger frame. Jrue is a big over 6’4 but obviously stronger and an excellent defender while Ball is 6’6-6’7. SGA is 6’6 with a 6’11+ wingspan.
Obviously height isn’t the end all be all, but Fox isn’t the ideal guy to match with another average or below PG. His athleticism helps but his strength plays down. Obviously if your other guard has the size or capability to defend the opponents second guard or wing, then it’s fine. Someone like Haliburton, Hayes, Edwards, etc would be fine.
I took the question to mean has it changed my mind about starting two small guards (I’m defining as average PG size or smaller) together. Obviously the biggest current examples of that working are Portland and Toronto. The question is, do the things that make those pairings work reasonably well, things that can be replicated with Fox as one of the guards. The answer is yes, depending on the other guard. In my opinion, in order to create a successful two small lead guard pair with Fox, that other guard would need to be a good half court facilitator, good shooter, and be able to reasonably defend at least 1s & 2s, if not 3s.
Would you trade #12 and Bagley for the #2 pick?
no
Would you trade Buddy for Aaron Gordon straight up? If so, does Orlando make that trade? Should their be mutual interest?
Rumor has it that Karl Anthony-Towns wants out of Minnesota. If a deal could be struck would you do a trade of Hield for Anthony-Towns?
You’re going to have to source that rumor. The Wolves just acquired Towns’ BFF and there’s rightfully been no talk of moving him. That said, is there anybody not related to Hield that wouldn’t trade him for Towns in a heartbeat?
Maybe rumor wasn’t the right choice of words, but I did read that Anthony-Towns may request a trade.
I think those are old rumors. From before they traded for D’Lo. And even then I don’t think any of it came from KAT or his camp. Just the usual speculation that always accompanies good players on bad teams.
It sounds agent driven. The classic “get this guy out of a small market” move.
Is there a potentially disgruntled star you think the Kings should consider pursuing and if so, who, what do you think it would take to get them, and why do you think they’d be a good fit once the dust settles?
Is it possible to trade for the #2 pick without giving up the #12?
Maybe if you include Fox and/or multiple future picks. Not that I think the Warriors would be interested in those returns, of course.
What about a hypothetical of Buddy + some 2nds+ Holmes and/or Bjelly for Wiggins and the #2?
because Wiggins is a better trade asset than Buddy?
I just don’t really see a match there. I can see them liking the idea of Holmes and Bjelly, but I don’t see them unloading the #2 to get them. I don’t see them being all that interested in Hield. I don’t think they’re concerned enough about unloading Wiggin’s contract to devalue the #2 to do it.
I mean, it’s hard to know since this is such and odd year and a weak draft, but in general, Hield is not the kind of player that gets you a #2 pick.
What’s your favorite home improvement show? What’s your favorite tool? Whats your favorite car show?
Badge Legend