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Chainmail

You asked, we answered!

Welcome back to Chainmail! We had some great questions this week, so let's dive right in, shall we?

From 1951:

When the Kings hire Mark Jackson, what are you going to do with the time you used to spend on the Kings?

Tim: My fandom and willingness to watch bad basketball has really eroded over the last eight or nine months, but the Mark Jackson hire would essentially put the nail in the coffin for me actually caring about this team. There's no way I can invest the time or emotional energy into an organization that categorically refuses to do the sensible thing at any time.

As far as things that I'll do, spending time with my family, jumping on the trampoline, swimming, working on DIY projects, getting through another puzzle, and getting back to my two-books-per-week rule would all be wonderful consequences of the Mark Jackson decision.

Will: Man, I can't even fathom what life would be like free from the clutches of this team. To borrow from The Shawkshank Redemption, I've been institutionalized by the franchise and I'm not quite sure what remains of my time on the other side of the wall. I couldn't exactly quit all things Kings, but I'd certainly pull the ol' Tom Ziller and become a much more general fan of the NBA. I'd spend more time feeding my soul instead of depleting it - getting more use out of the Criterion Channel subscription, getting through the novels on my night table a bit quicker, prioritizing good basketball when I do watch. Hell, I've put off doing my own writing for a few years now in order to get through the endless slog of previews so maybe.... do... that?

I couldn't quit completely. I've got Tony and Jerry to look forward to and all of you I have to harass in these mailbags... but yeah. Just generally be happier, I guess?

From Rob Hessing:

Name the best player that the Kings can add to their roster this summer (excluding rookie picks), and how the Kings get him.

Tim: Are we including the ability to make trades in this scenario? If so, John Collins is probably the most reasonable answer. The Hawks weren't as good as they hoped this year and Collins has been unhappy in Atlanta for some time. He's also the sub All-Star level of player who isn't going to cost an arm and a leg or a Tyrese Haliburton. The Kings could probably snag him for some combination of Davion Mitchell or the pick and Harrison Barnes, although it would probably be a three-team deal since the Hawks want to win now.

Outside of trades, Kings General Manager Vivek Ranadive Monte McNair could consider a handful of guys with the MLE. Malik Monk would be an upgrade at the starting shooting guard position; however, the Kings already have a dozen near-starting caliber off-guards right now. TJ Warren represents a higher risk, higher reward signing, as he's a starting-caliber wing who has dealt with injuries for the majority of his career and he's coming off of another major one this summer. Otto Porter is an old Kings crush who played solidly for the Warriors this season, but I can't imagine that his play will hold up for this roster. Finally, Bobby Portis is the dream, but I just don't see it happening.

Will: I'm going to go ahead and say this one again in the hopes the universe hears it... Cam Johnson. I really think Robert Sarver is going to start feeling the pinch with all of these winning players wanting winning contracts and with Ayton due for a huge payday, I can see Sarver asking GM James Jones to get what he can get for Cam Johnson before that contract comes due. I'd say a future first round pick and matching salary like Mo Harkless could get it done under the right circumstances, but this is all predicated on Sarver being very Sarver-y. I agree with Tim on Malik Monk, disagree a bit on the attainability of Bobby Portis but generally, I think the Kings are going to have a tough time attracting any A or B level free agents this season... regardless of who they pick from these three meh-to-terrifying coaching finalists.

From jwalker1395:

Assuming we stick at #7, and the top 5 is Chet, Jabari, Paolo, Ivey, and Murray, what are you doing with the pick?

 

Trade up? Trade out? High upside swing on Sharpe/Mathurin/other, or a high-floor role-player like Agbaji?

Tim: I would shop the pick heavily for a guy like John Collins or someone else of that caliber who may be available, but assuming that doesn't happen, I'll probably take Benedict Mathurin. He's a wing who can knock down three-pointers with ease (38% from deep on 316 attempts over two seasons), and his motor/flashiness would be fun next to De'Aaron Fox and Domantas Sabonis.

Will: Since this is framed with what I would do with the pick, I'd absolutely keep it and be happy with a good number of forwards available in this range. Obviously Bryant and Brenden are going to have a deeper read on those potential guys at this point, but any of AJ Griffin, Bennedict Mathurin, Tari Eason would make me happy. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a trade down or a reaching pick for a guy like Jeremy Sochan. Maybe the Hornets would give up 13/15 and a cheap vet like Cody Martin for the #7 and the Kings could nab a Jalen Duren or Mark Williams big to go along with a player like Sochan. Bottom line is... keep the pick and maneuver from there.

From jlandweh:

With the draft lottery upcoming, who would be your dream additions to the Kings from the draft?

If we jumped to #1?

If we jumped into the top 4?

If we land in the dreaded 7-10 range?

Tim: I cannot decide between Chet Holmgren and Jabari Smith Jr. I can't do it. I know who Monte McNair would pick - Jabari Smith - as he's far more ready to contribute at this moment, but Chet could be incredibly special long-term. As of this moment, I lean 51% Chet and 49% Smith Jr.

If we have the fourth pick, and assuming Paolo, Chet, and Jabari are gone, I'll swing for the biggest homerun and take Jaden Ivey, especially since I'm not convinced that De'Aaron Fox is long for this roster. Ivey could work alongside Fox as another scoring option off of the ball, but his ceiling his high enough that he could take over as one of the primary options if/when De'Aaron is traded.

In the 7-10 range, I'm hoping and praying that Keegan Murray slides, and if not, Benedict Mathurin is my guy.

Will: I answered that last one in the question above so I'll just stick with that but as for the other three: If we jumped to the top spot, I'm absolutely not stressing about who the pick is between Holmgren and Smith Jr. I see the merits in each, I'd be tickled to death with either and while we all know I'm a sucker for the weird, multi-faceted noodle boys, I'd legitimately be happy with either. With the #4 I'm taking Ivey unless Paolo Banchero is jumped by someone unexpected and is available. Again, the Kings need talent plain-and-simple so I am happy with either of those two guys at the #4 spot should they be there. This draft doesn't have any obvious "hellllll no!" types in the top 4 and the Kings are so in need of a talent influx that I'm fine with nearly whatever we can get.

From deepshot22:

What current playoff team do you see the Kings emulating to get back into contention? I love seeing the successes of the Grizzlies. Are we capable of replicating what they have done/created? Is the Bulls route an option? Or could we more likely duplicate what the Cavs, Timberwolves or Pelicans have done?

Tim: I don't think the Kings can emulate any of those teams until they find a true star player. The Grizzlies have Ja Morant, the Bulls have Zach LaVine and DeMar DeRozan, the Cavs have Evan Mobley (and maybe Darius Garland and/or Jarrett Allen), the Timberwolves have both Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards, and the Pelicans have Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson.

I wouldn't rank De'Aaron Fox or Domantas Sabonis over any of those guys, and that's the true issue the Kings face, far more so than which blueprint to follow. Once they acquire said star player, they can start to think about how to build around him.

Will: The Grizzlies, Cavs, Timberwolves and Pelicans all bottomed out for a few years, so no, we aren't emulating any of them. The Bulls aren't really an option because we aren't a talent draw in the same way that Chicago is. If were doing it like anyone, it'll be either the Suns or, honestly, the Bucks. I mean, the Bucks refused to really commit to a tank, just stayed bad-adjacent for awhile and then after picking up decent players in their 7-12 range picks, just lucked out into an all-generational player in Giannis 9 years ago. The Kings are going through a similar phase so... hey all we gotta do is wait right?

But really it's the Suns. They have high draft picks like Ayton so it isn't perfect but they were bad until it suddenly clicked and they weren't. They made a savvy move in picking up Chris Paul, their young star in Booker was finally ready to make that sustained leap, their role players all stepped up. Sac is different in that their young stars are a point and a center but... if they can prove their mettle to others in the league next year, who knows what over the hill, ready-to-prove-them-wrong wing could show up on their doorstep to take them one level higher.

From SPTSJUNKIE:

There’s plenty of negativity around here (for understandable reasons), so let’s think positive. Imagine one year from now, we have just won 42 games and lost an exciting first round series and you are writing an article about what an instrumental role our new coach played in our successful season.

 

For each of the three coaching finalists (Brown, Clifford, and Jackson), what are the positives about their styles and approaches that would have led to such a successful season? In other, why is it each of these three might be the right choice?

Tim: Mike Brown: He provides a calm but disciplined atmosphere, and for the first time in his career, De'Aaron Fox feels the need to hold himself accountable to a coach. The Kings develop a defensive scheme that hides weaknesses and enhances strengths, and the Kings make a splashy trade on draft night that lands them a big upgrade at one of the starter positions. Sacramento wins just over half their games, and the chemistry between Fox-Sabonis-Brown is as clear as day.

Steve Clifford: The Kings play ugly, winning basketball. They get after every possession, dive for the loose balls, and are manic everywhere on the court. Clifford, like Dave Joerger, pushes Fox to push the ball down the floor on every possession, but he also teaches him to pull back and run the offense through Sabonis if things are dicey.

Mark Jackson: Jackson convinces the Kings that everyone hates them, no one believes in them but him, and they have to prove everyone wrong. Sacramento's defense clicks behind his schemes, the offense is good enough to get by, and Domantas Sabonis is selected to the All-Star team after putting up 20+, 13+, and 7+.

Will: Are you "What If Vlade's Right"-ing this mailbag, Sptsjunkie?! Okay, I can do this. Predicting how they ended up successful:

Mike Brown: Brown provides a methodical approach to the game, he's always well prepared and while he's known for his defensive acumen, his years on the bench of the Warriors has ended up shoring up his offense more than anyone had originally thought it would. His team is close knit, they play intelligent basketball on both ends of the court and while they aren't great at either offense or defense, they find a way to win close games and squeak by when they need to.

Steve Clifford: The Clifford Kings wreck havoc on opposing defensive with an aggressive front line that is always trying to put pressure on opposing guards. They aren't the prettiest offensive team in the world, but Fox and Sabonis put up big numbers every night and everyone else fills in as much as they can. While they're not very efficient on the offensive end, the steals and forced turnovers they average give the Kings enough extra possessions to make up for it.

Mark Jackson: The Jackson Kings play pissed off. They're close knit, trying to get put some edge and swagger back on the court in Sacramento and bust their asses for every loose ball. Moving a shot blocker into the starting center role and having Domas play from the key and high post as a power forward pays off for a season and while he'd prefer center, the Kings win enough based on his Webber like presence that he isn't complain too much one season in.

From Kingsguru21:

I’m going to assume for a moment that the Kings A) hire Mike Brown, B) draft and trade well, and C) get an useful player in FA.

 

Provided these things, what conditions do you think it would take for De’Aaron Fox to be a 1st time All Star?

Tim: For the ease of argument's sake, let's say no All-Star caliber players shift divisions this summer. If that's the case, De'Aaron Fox has to beat out all but five of the following Western Conference guards next season:

Steph Curry
Damian Lillard
Ja Morant
Chris Paul
Luka Doncic
Devin Booker
(See how hard this is already)
Dejounte Murray
Donovan Mitchell
Anthony Edwards
Klay Thompson
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
(Where I have Fox ranked now)
Jordan Poole
CJ McCollum
Desmond Bane

All Fox needs to do is outplay several players who are clearly better than him, hope for multiple, catastrophic injuries, and hope that the Kings are somehow good next season. As our very own Rob Hessing once said, the league's guards are getting better faster than Fox is progressing, which is why I don't see an All-Star appearance in his future.

Will: Two of Ja Morant, Chris Paul, Steph Curry, Luka Doncic will have to suffer sever injuries to start the season.

I can see old farts like Paul or a young guy like Dejounte Murray not making it onto an All-Star squad next season but it is going to be incredibly difficult for Fox. The Kings will have to be a Top-6 team in the West for Fox to be considered and even then I could see them giving the nod to Sabonis instead.

From Marty:

Favorite childhood/sugary breakfast cereal you could still proudly eat an entire box when nobody is looking.

Tim: Cinnamon Toast Crunch is the GOAT cereal, but I can also smash a bag of RAISIN BRAN CRUNCH any day. Yeah, that's right. RAISIN Bran Crunch.

Will: It's probably gonna shock friends that know me when I say something other than Malt-o-Meal's Cocoa Dynobites (because I couldn't easy crush a bag of that in a day, in my prime) but I'll go with Cinnamon Toast Crunch. I'm in a soggy CTC mood right now and that sounds absolutely delicious.

From sonny:

Why do birds suddenly appear?

Tim: They aren't real. Have you ever seen a baby pigeon? Why don't we eat any eggs but chicken and occasionally quail? Some can fly and some can't? Not. A. Real. Thing.

Will: Just like me, they long to be close to you.

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murraytant
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May 5, 2022 10:22 am

You are very optimistic on Mark Jackson. I would have a far different take.

Fox- all-star- not likely. He can still optimize his potential but those other guys are good.

FA pool is weak.
Mathurin a real possibility. I would avoid Griffin and Chet but that’s me and my opinionated opinion. What about Davis? Sharpe is a risk but could be a LaVine but will take loads of time. Although Green from Houston did well this year.

Kings-Rebuild
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May 5, 2022 10:46 am
Reply to  murraytant

I’ve watch a lot of basketball, played a lot of basketball and coached a lot of basketball. When it comes to Holmgren proceed with caution. To me this guy has bust written all over him. When playing against high level competition he struggled immensely and I watch hands and feet very closely and both are problematic especially his hands. There’s many guys on the draft board I haven’t seen enough to comment on but for those I’ve seen frequently Jabari Smith stands out to me and that’s on BOTH sides of the ball. I want players who are dependable, play defense and will score in the clutch and Smith to be can be that player.

I watched almost every Gonzaga game this year and Holmgren was impressive when he played inferior opponents but struggled mightily like in the tournament against better competition. He won’t be playing against Santa Clara, Pepperdine and Loyola in the NBA. I watch a lot of OKC games for whatever reason and have watched Pokuseski quite a bit. To me he has similar traits as Holmgren but is much better and although he shows flashes it’s been a struggle for him although I think he’ll eventually be a productive NBA player. I don’t see that happening with Chet. It appears from the draft boards, the Kings won’t have to make a decision on Holmgren and I think that’s a good thing.

murraytant
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May 5, 2022 10:42 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

thank you

There are some who are completely enamored with Chet. Your reasoning and observations are sound- he reminds me of Shawn Bradley.

I suspect that the Kings get 7,8 or at worst 9. Someone will take Chet. That leaves Smith, Banchero and Ivey. Then Murray. After that in no order: Griffin, Sharpe, Davis and Mathurin. So there is talent down to 9. I would also avoid Griffin. He reminds me of Justice Winslow. Sharpe is a risk and a couple of years away, although Green did well in Houston. Davis can step in. Mathurin is Kuminga with more basketball talent and less athleticism.

Kings-Rebuild
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May 6, 2022 8:30 am
Reply to  murraytant

Your assessment is as good as any. I suspect the draft board will shuffle after the combines and there will be a couple of surprises draft night. Holmgren has a little different skill set than Bradley but their physicality limitations are similar. I actually think Bradley had better hands and is/was a better defender. I can’t see Holmgren having an immediate impact in the NBA although I was a bit surprised how quickly Mobley has contributed. These advanced scouts are pretty damn good in their assessments but this one puzzles me. Like I said, Pokuseski is better than Holmgren in my opinion and he’s having growing pains. Jabari Smith is the best player in this draft especially when you consider his potential diversity as a defender. We have a tendency to look at one side of the ball but when you compare Smith to Holmgren regarding their potential on defense Smith is miles better than Holmgren.

murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:25 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

agree. Smith would be a grand slam.

Bbmuteman
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May 5, 2022 10:40 am

But…nostradumbass? 😉

sonny
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May 5, 2022 11:11 am

Who do birds suddenly appear?

Hah! first time my question on Chainmail was answered!
Thanks Tim and especially Will for the right segue!

If (God forbid) Jackson is hired, we’re gonna be having more of these kinds of Kangz posts.

Lost fandom on the basketball team will surely turn to more energized support for the TKH team!

Klam
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Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
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May 5, 2022 11:30 am
Reply to  sonny

Tim and Will occassionally will answer silly questions. One time in a chainmail I jokingly asked on Twitter “What is the name of the director of Lady Bird?” and to my utter shock it made it on that week’s chainmail as an answered question.

Kingsguru21
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May 5, 2022 11:46 am
Reply to  Klam

comment image

WGriffith
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May 6, 2022 10:11 am
Reply to  sonny

No one slips a karaoke favorite past me!
(like the Carpenters better to listen to, the Sinatra version to sing to)

Adamsite
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May 5, 2022 11:32 am

In regards to who might be there at #7, I keeping hearing, and seeing in mocks, Mathurian more and more. I don’t know what it is about him that gives me serious pause, but I just don’t want him to be the precieved BPA at #7. I get some serious Ben McLemore vibes off of him. Could someone talk me off that ledge?

If he is BPA, then I say trade the pick. Either trade back to get additional assets or move the pick for a 3rd bananas to go with our two 2nd bananas. Collins would be nice, but I don’t think the #7 gets him. Barnes and the #7 works numbers wise, but just leaves the Kings with a hole at the wing. Huerter and Hunter for Barnes and the #7 would be more my speed, but I doubt the Hawks go for that.

Bbmuteman
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May 5, 2022 2:05 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Mathurin seems to play with more effort and anger than McLemore. He also back cuts for points which would play well with sabonis dimes.

I’m there with you on trading down though.

Last edited 3 months ago by Bbmuteman
02kingsfan
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May 5, 2022 3:48 pm
Reply to  Bbmuteman

He’s a much better play maker than BMac from the very limited time I saw him play.

SPTSJUNKIE
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May 5, 2022 3:04 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I feel like we could do worse as he can shoot and has the tools the play defense.

He just doesn’t have great handles, doesn’t have a lot of bend/fluidity so he struggles a lot scoring inside (like it’s ugly on film), and his defense has some promise, but isn’t there yet. He’s also still needs to bulk up a bit more, he doesn’t always take great angles on D and seems to get knocked off balance by a lot of screens – it’s almost comical.

I’ll also add that while I am sure he’s a good enough shooter, he’ll figure things out eventually, he seems like a better shooter with the ball in his hands than pure “catch and shoot.” He has some moments coming off screens and hitting in a rhythm, but even when he’s pretty open, he likes to put down a dribble or take a moment to collect himself. Synergy seems to back this up a bit as he’s only 50th percentile on catch and shoot (17th percentile unguarded) and 72nd off the dribble.

Overall, while he has appropriate height/length, he just doesn’t seem to play long. The same way we discuss guys who have “run and jump” athleticism versus “applied athleticism,” Maturin almost seems to have “measured length” versus “applied length.” He doesn’t have enough bend to use his arms to reach around defenders and score (a la Tyreke) and he has fast hands and gets some strips, but gets surprisingly few deflections and steals for a player with his quickness / length both om film and in the numbers (1.2 steals per 40).

So I kind of have your same feeling. Guy has a chance to shoot, defend at a solid level, and drive opportunistically – which would fit nicely next to Fox and Sabonis. But without a lot of development, I question his upside a bit and even wonder if his defense is just passable, how much better is his shooting than a baseline that is getting higher every year as more players grow up with training that emphasizes shooting.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 5, 2022 3:50 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

We could do worse, but I don’t see a likely scenario where he is among my top few choices still on the board. Nor one where I wouldn’t be looking to trade the pick is he were.

SPTSJUNKIE
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May 5, 2022 4:51 pm

Agreed. Hoping there’s a better option there as you can probably tell from my assessment.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we trade the pick if we don’t move up. I could see Monte trying to add a third semi-star packaging the pick and more.

HongKongKingsFan
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May 5, 2022 4:53 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

Didn’t we say the same thing for last year ?

eddie41
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May 5, 2022 9:42 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

that sounds like a bad nba player.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 6, 2022 9:48 am
Reply to  eddie41

Without going too deep into it, I see him being kind of a Caleb Martin type (doesn’t pass as well as Cody). A G/F tweener who is a good rotation player that won’t kill you if he has to take on a slightly bigger role for stretches. Basically, a useful NBA player to have on a cheap deal.

SPTSJUNKIE
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May 6, 2022 1:28 pm

My current “middle” comp for him is Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Another lottery prospect who was better from range and a decent (but a bit overrated) defender with some of the same weaknesses and a smilar, though not identical physical profile (Mathurin is a bit taller, wingspan is similar, KCP weighed about 10 pounds more).

I can see the Martin comparison as well.

SPTSJUNKIE
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May 6, 2022 1:25 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Maybe I am coming off as too harsh. Yes, definitely have concerns about him with our pick. But he also improved a lot as a sophomore (so maybe a hard worker).

Assuming he can develop into a better catch and shoot threat (same adjustment Davion is making, but Mathurin is a better pure shooter), can become better at using his tools defensively, and improves his runner / in-between game, he still has a lot of potential.

I am still working on my high end comp for him, but it’s actually almost scary how much he has in common with Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, who was also a lottery pick. While that may not be the sexiest outcome. Getting someone whose baseline is KCP, but with more upside isn’t the worst outcome, especially closer to back end of the lottery.

eddie41
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May 6, 2022 8:43 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

okay, fair enough. I see him as a 1st rounder, so obviously there’s something there. the thing is, as Kings fans, aren’t we tired of stocking the roster with shooting guards who have below average guard skills and are projects who need some work on defense and aren’t even really elite enough at shooting to justify the wasting opportunities of adding playmaking and IQ to the court at a position where it’s more common to find it? It seems like you can find that guy in free agency every year, and probably at a lower salary.

murraytant
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May 5, 2022 10:49 pm
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

I can see how you see this. If true, all the other GM’s – who see more than we do- see it as well and this de-values the 7th pick. unless they like someone else.

SPTSJUNKIE
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May 6, 2022 1:26 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Good point

RAP87
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May 5, 2022 4:38 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If the Kings stay at 7 there a lots of options other than Mathurin. I have him currently at #9 on my list.

One of Sharpe, Murray and Griffin will be available if they pick 7.

RobHessing
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May 5, 2022 4:40 pm
Reply to  RAP87

Yeah, he’s battling Dyson Daniels for #10 on my list.

(BTW, I know nothing.)

Kingsguru21
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May 5, 2022 4:48 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Let’s say the Kings are at 8. They are choosing between Jeremy Sochan and Tari Eason. I’m assuming you have Sochan higher, but would either of those guys bother you?

RobHessing
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May 5, 2022 4:55 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Neither one would bother me if McNair determined that was the call. I have some faith in him when it comes to the draft at this point.

Holmgren, Smith, Banchero
Murray, Ivey, Sharpe (based solely on what I have read – the HS tapes don’t really do much for me)
Griffin, Davis
That’s my top 8. After that, add Eason, Sochan, Mathurin, Daniels to my top 12 .

I think that Monte will also take a good look at Agbaji and Liddell. I have not seen enough of Jovic to slot him.

RobHessing
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May 5, 2022 4:56 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

And 1 – I think that Davis was pretty banged up down the stretch of the season, and I would not be surprised if he showed out really well when teams get a look at him in person.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 5, 2022 5:05 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

It will be interesting because he’s isn’t really a combine/workout beast type. He doesn’t pop in athleticism, measurements, or shooting. He’s more of an in-game savvy guy. Obviously, a different position, but kind of a TJ Warren. Just a guy that knows how to put it in the bucket.

RobHessing
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May 5, 2022 5:11 pm

I think that he’s a basketball player, and a baseline-to-baseline one at that. Healthy, I think that there is a smoothness and flow to his game that will translate in the workouts. Pure guess, all feels on my part. I don’t think that he will crack the top five, and he may not pass Sharpe’s athleticism, but I think the Kings will give him a hard look if he is there when they pick.

murraytant
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May 5, 2022 10:51 pm

I see some DeMar.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 6, 2022 9:54 am
Reply to  murraytant

Sure, I can see that as a high end comp.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 5, 2022 5:14 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I’d probably have Sochan, Daniels, and Jovic above that Griffin and Davis tier. But at that point I’m probably looking to move down and gain assets.

RobHessing
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May 5, 2022 5:20 pm

It will be interesting. McNair has shown a penchant for being deliberate, and not one to come off of his opinion of a player’s value. He does not strike me as the type to make a lot of draft day deals, but to be fair, his track record is a short one.

eddie41
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May 5, 2022 7:59 pm

I saw a full game of Jovic. He seemed better on defense than advertised. Only reservation is that although his “showtime” attitude can be good, and he seems to have a real passion for hoops, he seems a bit careless with the ball. I get the feeling that he’ll have a great idea of a pass he’d like to make but when the play does not develop the way he thought he still has a tendency to make a pass that isn’t there. I think it’s reflected is his high turnover rate. If that’s true, is it an easy problem to fix? And would you draft him in the top 10?

murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:32 pm

Sochan and Jovic are risks.
Daniels is very intriguing . I see some Giddy there. Good fit in guy but can he be a NBA killer? Davis and Sharpe have the most potential to be able to get a shot and make it. and I agree on Griffin- too much Justice Winslow.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 5, 2022 5:02 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Eason would. I think his decision-making on both ends is a BIG issue.

Last edited 3 months ago by BestHyperboleEver
Kingsguru21
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May 5, 2022 6:15 pm

Yeah. I figured you would have an issue.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 5, 2022 7:01 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I tend to have issues. In every sense.

Kingsguru21
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May 6, 2022 7:28 am

Don’t we all. I meant Eason’s profile/player archetype isn’t your preferred way to go.

I think both Sochan and Eason are interesting. But draft prospects often are. I don’t really know, I’m at least not pretending I do.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 6, 2022 10:21 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I mean, I think the underlying understanding here is that none of us really have any idea what we’re talking about. And even if we did have the knowledge, none of us have the access or resources that NBA FOs do. We’re just a bunch of hobbyists throwing out ideas. We’ll get a few right, a lot wrong, and both outcomes will probably have a lot more to do with random dumb luck than any innate scouting skill.
We all also have our “types.” As you mention, I tend to like high BBIQ as a cost of entry. I like players that show good understanding and anticipation. In general, I’d rather bet on players improving skills, (shooting, handles, defensive technique, etc.) than players improving their awareness as I think the majority of that is a combination of natural talent and learning in the formative years.

Kings-Rebuild
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May 6, 2022 3:45 pm

I agree with the first four sentences. I often wonder how often most have seen these guys play. I pay a lot closer attention to this stuff than I should and many of these guys I don’t have a clue about.

murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:36 pm

agree- none of us know that much. We have opinions. NBA FO people have opinions but have data and experience. And, despite that, there are so many huge misses.
My gut feeling a few years back was that Serbian dude fell into our lucky lap and I distrusted, at that time, Duke guys but WTF did I know?

eddie41
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May 5, 2022 7:49 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Interesting two players to compare. They are polar opposites. Eason shows a good shooting touch and length, but the one full game I saw, his teammates were soooo annoyed with him on both sides of the ball. IQ is questionable. Also turnover prone. Sochan I like because he does have IQ, but his shot is a question mark and although he can move his feet well on the perimeter and battle with the bigs, he often focuses so much on being in the right place defensively that he misses the opportunity to get stocks, which are often only one inch away from his fingertips and you wonder where that final spring is to make the play. I could see Sochan at 8 but consider Dyson Daniels to be a better player.

Kingsguru21
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May 6, 2022 8:35 am
Reply to  eddie41

Yeah, but couldn’t you see Eason coming off the bench for a few years for a disciplined coach and potentially developing that?

I mean, Eason is going to hear he’s out of control alot. At some point he’ll have to adjust.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 6, 2022 10:27 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Then, of course, we’d find out if he has the ability to adjust and still be impactful.

Honestly, I think one of the most important (and hardest) attributes to scout is the ability to improve and make adjustments. I don’t think every player has the same aptitude for meaningful improvement. (Suck on THAT, Gladwell!) And the ability to make those leaps in ability are what separate guys like, say, SGA from guys like MCW.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 6, 2022 10:58 am

I will say this is one of the reasons I often prefer upperclassmen and euro’s with pro experience over freshmen once you move beyond the truly elite prospects.

Kingsguru21
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May 6, 2022 11:44 am

Honestly, I think one of the most important (and hardest) attributes to scout is the ability to improve and make adjustments. I don’t think every player has the same aptitude for meaningful improvement. 

That’s a tough element of player development, IMO, is to help a player understand who he really is at the NBA level. Especially if he’s not likely to be a star.

Anyhoo, yeah, we’ll see I guess. I’m just mostly interested to see what happens with the coaching search and the lottery and go from there. I’m thinking, this year of all years, would be a good year to jump to the top and take a player that doesn’t require a lot of faith to believe in (like Smith Jr).

Last edited 3 months ago by Kingsguru21
eddie41
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May 6, 2022 1:58 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I can’t say for sure. Just seems like a big gamble. And I question how high someone’s ceiling is if he’s the most confused guy on the court.

eddie41
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May 6, 2022 11:14 pm
Reply to  eddie41

I’d have to see a couple games where he’s sober. Honestly the one full game I saw (I think it was the one Will told us all to look at) his symptoms were akin to someone who had taken too many bong rips before playing.

RAP87
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May 5, 2022 7:01 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I have Daniels at #7 on my personal board.

1. Smith
2. Holmgren
3. Banchero
4. Ivey
5. Sharpe
6. Griffin
7. Daniels
8. Murray
9. Mathurin
10. Sochan

A lot can happen during draft workouts but this is my current list at the moment

murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:42 pm
Reply to  RAP87

My list is close. I have Murray at 5 and Davis and Mathurin above Daniels. This is my rankings but not for the Kings. For them I would avoid Chet and Griffin and take next guy down.
I think Daniels will be a fine player but I believe the Kings need an aggressive killer scorer.

jwalker1395
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May 6, 2022 6:42 am
Reply to  RAP87

I am not a fan of Griffin or Eason. With Griffin, it’s a whole lot of love for what he could be rather than what he is. I see the shooting numbers, I do not see a whole lot else.

Eason is a poor decision maker with limited upside. Maybe he could be a 3&D forward, he could also just as easily be unplayable to me.

andy_sims
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May 6, 2022 8:57 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

Six weeks ago, most mocks had Griffin in the top five, and now I’m seeing him outside the top ten. I think that between his injury history, and his disappearance during the tournament, there is concern about his upside.

Griffin looks to be a reliable deep threat, and has the physical profile to be a good defender. Before the tournament, I’d have considered getting him at seven to be something of a coup, despite his injuries. Assuming the Kings don’t jump up and have better choices, Griffin is likely to still be on the board at 7/8/9. If so, that’s going to require McNair to make a tough decision, but as Rob mentioned. in his tenure so far, he’s been on the money.

RAP87
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May 6, 2022 10:17 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

I still think Griffin has a lot of potential considering his age. Only concern is the injury history. If that part checks out, I’d be comfortable with him as the pick at 7. He already has good handles, can obviously shoot well from deep and is a passable defender. He won’t be asked to do too much with the Kings that has Sabonis and Fox. All Griffin has to do is play good defense and space the floor.

I’m with you on Eason though.

Last edited 3 months ago by RAP87
jwalker1395
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May 6, 2022 1:03 pm
Reply to  RAP87

Griffin clearly has potential. I get why some people are high on him, I just have my doubts he will reach his ceiling – whether it’s due to limited playmaking, self-creation, or injuries. He also is a big, strong, athletic body with a 7′ wingspan that isn’t particularly good on defense – what’s up with that? The competition isn’t getting easier from the NCAA tournament, either.

It’s all of these questions that would make me honestly prefer just taking a guy like Agbaji over Griffin, who was far more productive as a 3&D wing. He knocks down his shots when they come, attacks the rim off cuts/lobs and in transition, and can stay in front of his man. And I know we always want younger guys because of their ceiling, but Agbaji even has some explosiveness to him that makes me think he could be even more if he develops a couple different aspects of his game. Imo that’s a high-floor with some room for growth.

My lottery big board right now probably looks like:

Tier 1

  • Chet
  • Jabari
  • Paolo

Tier 2

  • Murray
  • Ivey
  • Sharpe

Tier 3

  • Mathurin
  • Agbaji
  • Griffin
  • Jovic

Tier 4

  • Daniels
  • Branham
  • Davis
  • Sochan
  • TyTy
  • Duren
murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:46 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

makes sense. Griffin is more potential than actual. Davis was the man for his team- had to take the reins and be aggressive. Griffin was “allowed” to float because he could get away with it.
Sharpe could be the next Jalen Green. Could be. or he could be Rafer Alston.

murraytant
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May 5, 2022 10:46 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Trading down works in football where there is a ton of talent. Not so well in basketball. I get the Mathurin = B-Mac but he is bigger and smarter.
Trade down for Dyson? Eason? (or the slot that delivers them).
Huerter and Hunter- nope.

andy_sims
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May 6, 2022 10:23 am
Reply to  murraytant

I like Mathurin, too, and suspect he’s got a good hoops IQ, but saying someone is smarter than Ben McLemore is the faintest of praise.

AmateurNerd
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May 6, 2022 2:34 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

He also has more hands than Marvin Bagley.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 6, 2022 3:15 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

A better leader than Cousins as well.

murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:47 pm

the trifecta- any player with Cousins leadership, B-Mac’s BBIQ and Marvin’s hands is playing ( poorly) in the local rec league.

CoreyBrewersD
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May 7, 2022 6:15 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Who leaked my scouting report!! I make up for those pitfalls by being under 6′ and pretty out of shape.

rockbottom
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May 8, 2022 9:36 am
Reply to  murraytant

Huerter and Hunter both better than who Kings get at 7 . Hawks may trade Huerter for 7 but not a chance on Hunter .

Sacto_J
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May 5, 2022 12:00 pm

Get in the van…

Birds-Not Real At All.JPG
Kosta
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May 5, 2022 12:42 pm

KANGZ!

(the new thriller from Alfred Hitchcock)

comment image

Last edited 3 months ago by Kosta
RobHessing
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May 5, 2022 12:44 pm
Reply to  Kosta

comment image

markdog333
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May 5, 2022 1:37 pm

It is going to be tough for Fox to be an all-star next year after not even being part of the conversation this year. It would have to be a hot start for the Kings combined with Fox putting up big numbers. And by hot start, I’m talking like 20-4 hot.

sonny
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May 5, 2022 2:10 pm
Reply to  markdog333

Agree completely.

And this is my prediction – this coming season, the nattering nabobs of negativism on Fox will not end. He just doesn’t have IT.

And negativism on the Kangz of course.

alec26
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May 5, 2022 2:21 pm

Tim and Will and Carmichael Dave really do not like Mark Jackson. I wonder if Vivek Ranadive is hearing this and is going to hire Jackson out of spite.

SPTSJUNKIE
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May 5, 2022 3:10 pm

Are you “What If Vlade’s Right”-ing this mailbag, Sptsjunkie?! Okay, I can do this. Predicting how they ended up successful:

Ha – I hate to be that guy, but the world is so glum, we need some hope around here!

Love the answers from both of you, but especially the insights on Brown and how you both thought Jackson would basically convince the roster the rest of the world hated them. I can see you guys both have a lot of respect for his coaching 🙂

Brown: Brown provides a methodical approach to the game, he’s always well prepared and while he’s known for his defensive acumen, his years on the bench of the Warriors has ended up shoring up his offense more than anyone had originally thought it would. His team is close knit, they play intelligent basketball on both ends of the court and while they aren’t great at either offense or defense, they find a way to win close games and squeak by when they need to.

Love this though. Think there is another path on offense where Brown who is a bit older and perhaps a bit more willing to acknowledge his lack of offensive acumen (or at least the deficit there compared this his insane defensive coaching ability) bring in a top notch offensive coordinator to help run the offense while Brown leads the defense.

You see this all of the time in NFL coaching circles and seems like it would help here as well.

Last edited 3 months ago by SPTSJUNKIE
Adamsite
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May 5, 2022 3:11 pm

There is still hope.

Kingsguru21
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May 5, 2022 3:14 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

There was always hope.

WizsSox
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May 5, 2022 3:56 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

comment image

Kingsguru21
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May 6, 2022 8:15 am
Reply to  WizsSox

I’m not a fool. Am not! Nun uh!!!! Not me!! I’ve never been fooled once, or twice! Not even in Tennessee!

Nope, wasn’t me.*

* Doth protesting alot; argument is invalid

Klam
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May 5, 2022 3:25 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Please please please………

JackassCentral916
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May 5, 2022 3:29 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

But did he say he wants to play coach in Sacramento?

Klam
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May 5, 2022 4:29 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Take with a grain of salt, of course, but if true, hold on to your hats everyone.

Last edited 3 months ago by Klam
Kingsguru21
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May 5, 2022 4:50 pm
Reply to  Klam

Pretty sure he was being a smartass.

HongKongKingsFan
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May 5, 2022 4:57 pm
Reply to  Klam

Is Sabonis one of the interviewer ? (As he said he wanted to make some contribution)

Prior to the coach search process, I don’t think Saboins should involved in the coach selection or offering any opinion.

But right now, I hope he is involved and vote for/say something good about Mike Brown, as Sabonis is a smart guy that won’t wanted to play for Mark Jackson.

andy_sims
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May 6, 2022 8:58 am
Reply to  Klam

#King?

sonny
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May 5, 2022 6:49 pm

In regards to the draft picks discussion above, can somebody fill me up on this:

Are there any Kings scouts who actually go to the games to watch those prospects live?
Or do they just watch tapes and read reviews?

Also, is it a normal practice that teams do not introduce or make known the credentials of the people in the scouting dept?

I have a poker friend feom Sacramento who’s reslly good in college bsketball scouting.
The last few yesrs, he nailed down the above average ones, even from the late first round.
I keep joking with him to apply as a scout for the Kings.

eddie41
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May 5, 2022 11:03 pm

Got another name: Jalen Williams, Santa Clara. anyone seen much of him this year? looks like he’s got a nasty game.

RobHessing
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May 6, 2022 1:32 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Shares the ball well. Still needs to fill out some for a Junior. Wouldn’t mind him if he’s there at 37.

eddie41
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May 6, 2022 8:45 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I like how quick he makes decisions. good shooter and passer. but yeah, second round seems about right.

BestHyperboleEver
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May 7, 2022 11:31 am
Reply to  eddie41

My list of 2nd round guys I’m interested in looks like a reunion guest list. It includes Jalen Williams, Jaylin Williams, Alondes Williams, and Trevion Williams.

NorCalKingsFan
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May 7, 2022 5:07 pm

Check out Leonard Miller, a 18yr old from Canada

murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:50 pm
Reply to  eddie41

has the potential to be this year’s Kessler Edwards who started for the Nets for awhile. Poor man’s Zaire Williams

Hobby916
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May 6, 2022 8:46 am

If the Kings come away from the draft with both Murray and Agbaji, I have this vision of those two and Harrison Barnes being snipers from 3, while Fox drives to the rim. The spacing would be rather nice. Sabonis in the high post with Murray and Agbaji would also be a threat.

ArcoThunder
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May 6, 2022 7:35 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

So your vision includes losing Barnes for nothing. How clairvoyant are you?

If you’re really good at seeing the future than I’m bummed. My hope was Monte could get something good in a Barnes trade with only 1 year remaining.

Last edited 3 months ago by ArcoThunder
Hobby916
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May 7, 2022 8:06 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Why would he be lost for nothing?

murraytant
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May 7, 2022 5:54 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

no way to get both.
Second round- Max Christie Michigan State., one of the Euro centers , LaRavia or Justin Lewis.

andy_sims
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