Welcome back to Chainmail! We hope everyone had a wonderful holiday season (outside of Robert Horry and Pete D’Alessandro and the entirety of the Lakers fandom). Let’s review the last week or so for the Kings, shall we?
- Just like almost every other team in the NBA, the Kings have recently been hit with the health and safety protocols bug, with multiple players missing multiple games, including De’Aaron Fox, Davion Mitchell, Marvin Bagley, Terence Davis, Alex Len, Louis King, and Neemias Queta. Alvin Gentry also missed a handful of games, leading to Doug Christie’s entertaining and exciting debut as a head coach in the league.
- De’Aaron Fox missed a total of four games due to health and safety protocols, and boy did Tyrese Haliburton show out during that span. Sacramento’s second-year stud put up 23.5 points and 11.3 assists while running the show for the Kings.
- Due to the above absences, Sacramento signed Justin Robinson, Ade Murkey, and Emmanuel Mudiay to hardship exceptions, but neither player was particularly impressive in their individual stints.
- Richaun Holmes also recently returned from a seven-game absence due to an eye injury, but he’s looked out of sorts on the court as he gets back into a rhythm. In 30 total minutes, he’s put up just 4 points (2/7 FG), 11 rebounds, and 7 fouls. Holmes has also stated that he’ll be wearing protective goggles for the remainder of his career, and that is clearly requiring some adjustments on his part.
- De’Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, Terence Davis, Louis King, and Alvin Gentry all returned from health and safety protocols on Sunday afternoon, but the Kings were still wrecked by the Memphis Grizzlies.
- On December 23d, Buddy Hield attempted 18 three-pointers for the shorthanded Kings. In Sunday afternoon’s loss, Hield took just two three-pointers (missing them both) in 24 minutes of action, the fewest he’s taken in a full game since December of 2018.
- Sacramento has now lost 7 of their last 9 games. If the team keeps up its current pace, they’ll end up with a record of 31 wins and 51 losses, not exactly the playoff core that was promised in the offseason.
- The Kings now rank 29th in defensive rating, 25th in net rating, and 29th in defensive rebounding. They’re currently surrendering 53.8 points in the paint on average, the worst mark since the NBA began posting the statistic in 1996.
- Sacramento now has the sixth-worst record in the NBA, and they lead New Orleans by just one game for the fourth-worst record. Conversely, they’re now 3 full games out of the eighth seed. Since their surprising 5-4 start, the Kings have gone 8-17, the third-worst winning percentage in the league.
Now, get to asking, so we can get to answering!
Is this rock bottom? It sure feels like it to me.
Don’t be butthurt.
What’s cooler than being cool?
Ice cold?
I said what’s cooler than being cool?
ICE COLD!
Alright alright alright alright
Serious question: If it was announced that Kings were sold and breaking their lease and moving to Seattle today, would there be an ounce of outrage?
I say it would be barely a whimper.
I say that you have severe myopia.
so you think Carmichael Dave is getting on a bus to drive cross country to save the team?
A Rascal, maybe.
I’d be upset, but not surprised.
I don’t see any way in hell the league lets that happen. They’d expand before they brake a 30 year lease, 5 years in, with a city who built them an arena. They’s loose a ton of credibility in ever wanting city funding for an arena elsewhere.
That’s not the question.
Just answer the darn question!!!
It was a hypothetical. I think it goes to show how the Kings have beaten down the fanbase
It may indicate to a slight degree how the minuscule percentage of Kings’ fans who read and post here may feel.
Twitter ain’t the real world, and neither is this.
I’m sorry. I didn’t think my response was all that inflammatory, but here’s what I think.
If the Kings relocated to Seattle or Las Vegas it would add hundreds of millions (or more) to it’s valuation almost instantly.
The more that existing franchises are worth, the more the NBA can charge the prospective owner of Seattle/Las Vegas (wherever the Kings didn’t end up) in expansion fees.
If Vivek, the NBA, and the other owners decide moving the team is what is going to make them the most money then they’ll find way to make it happen.
Lease or no lease.
If that were true The Pelicans and Grizzlies would already be moved !
And the Magic.
Gawd, how awful would it be to be young, rich, and planted in Orlando, Florida for several years?
Please talk me off the ledge of apathy?
I’m sorry, but I lack the motivation to do so. I think that I’ll take a nap.
Come down from that ledge—wait, not like that!
I wish you would step back
From that ledge my friend
You could cut ties with all the lies
That you’ve been living in
And if you do not want to see me again
I would understand,
I would understand
What’s the most outrageously KANGZ thing you could see happening in the rest of the season that wouldn’t surprise you?
Kangz trade picks and four starters for Westbrook AND Kevin Love to “go all in on a playoff push.”
‘Go on…”
A week before the trade deadline, Gentry is replaced by John Calipari, with a five year, $75 million deal with no interview process. At the presser, Monte McNair plays a recording of himself saying “______ is the coach who is going to get us to the playoffs.” Rumor is that Dumars is against the hire.
McNair is then fired the day before the trade deadline and Joe Dumars becomes the GM. Dumars immediately trades Davion Mitchell, Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley for Russell Westbrook, and then trades Harrison Barnes for Joe Harris and Blake Griffin. After the deadline, Danny Ainge is hired as special adviser to the owner, and he really, really isn’t involved in basketball ops. Really!
In their first game, Westbrook clanks a three off the rim so hard it knocks Griffin into Westbrook, and they both miss the rest of the season. The good news is that the KANGZ make the 2013 All Star Team!
Serious question: Kangz, or KANGZ?
Please attempt to explain how Terence Davis (362 min) leads the team with a +4.6 net rating and Moe Harkless (477 min) is second with a +0.9 (minimum 50 mins played). Thanks.
Is there really even anything left to say about this franchise?
Should we all go ahead and take the rest of the season off and hope that next year is better? If the last game is any indicator it seems to be the strategy that the Kings have adopted.
If it’s good enough for them…
“Should we all?”
Do whatever you feel would be best for yourself.
You should start exploring other teams. We would appreciate it.
But I don’t hate the team or its players.
Or were you talking to a mirror?
Sometimes you have something useful and intelligent to say. Generally you are an ignorant prick.
While I’ll concede that you may have great familiarity with both ignorance and pricks, you’re not really in a position to throw stones when they are combined.
I know you are but what am I…..
Your brilliance and personality always shine through.
The compliment is appreciated.
That’s not how lemmings behave.
Unfortunately, nothing is ever better “next year”.
This answer applies to my bank account, too.
Besides a massive scandal, is there anyway to get Vivek out?
Isn’t the team’s performance a big enough scandal in and of itself?
At this point, what is the easiest on-court issue to address and fix? What about the off-court issue most easily remedied?
Are this FO and roster capable of identifying further issues and making the appropriate adjustments?
How much stock do you put in Halliburton’s play during the 4-game sample when Fox, Mitchell, Bagley, and damn near everyone else was out?
The Kings sales team trying to get season ticket holders to stay and renew their tickets:
Phoenix. Chicago. Memphis. Cleveland. These are four teams that recently wallowed in the bottom of the NBA standings with the Kings but have found their way into the current NBA’s top ten, with two (Phx & Chi) in the top five. How many years or decades before the Kings get there?
Phoenix- a few of strong drafts, consistent philosophy, keeping the first star (Booker), free agents (CP3) and some around the edges trades
Chicago- keeping the one star- LaVine, adding free agents – DeMar, the guy from LAL, trading for Vuc, bad drafts except Williams who is hurt. Coach
Memphis- trading Gasol and Conley early, drafts (Morant and JJJ), got lucky with Brooks and Bane, trade for Adams
Cavs- drafts for Garland, Sexton, Okuro and Mobley . Trade for Allen
No real pattern here. Some kept a star, most drafted well, others drafted poorly (Bulls)
Most got some luck or prescience- Griz, Cavs
Kings have had some good drafts- Fox, Mitchel, Hali but blew the one big chance. Luka, Trae, JJJ all left on table.
Going forward- get lucky in draft (not a good plan), pursue sign and trades.
But too many teams have commandeered all the loose future draft assets and are actively tanking for even better picks on their own.
Kings do have a number of serviceable players. Package pieces for one guy.
But all this relies on too much luck- some skill but mostly luck.
A decade look would be to save 1-2 players, trade the rest, tank and play around like OKC.
A few others left on the draft table: Steph, Giannis, Klay, and so on and so on.
What’s interesting, even using the crutch of hindsight, is that better than half of the teams in the league passed up on at least one of those guys. And many of those teams have been, or are very good.
The draft with Luka was obviously a titanic fuck-up. When you have a top-two pick in a two-player draft, the only thing you don’t know is which of the two you’ll be able to get. Vlade Divac could fuck up a wet dream.
Over the last couple of seasons I’ve been less and less interested in watching this teams this year has to be the least number of games I’ve willingly missed. I know other fans feel the same way. Nothing ever changes with this team.
Do you all think the franchise is aware of how many fans have lost interest in this team and how they’ve missed out on a generation of younger fans who have no incentive to root for this team?
The next generation thing is not a small deal. If you are under 18 years old, the odds are that you have no memory of this team being in the playoffs, and the overall product has left a lot to be desired much more often than not. There is virtually no civic pride linking fans to this team right now, and parents and children are not making a lot of memories, judging by the attendance. Good grief, if you removed the corporately owned tickets from the mix, the number of tickets sold to the common person these days has to be at or very near an all-time low.
All of that said, fans would come back for a compelling and competitive product. The question then becomes, what will the Kings organization change in its approach to change the results?
My siblings became Kings fans because I watched the team all the time. They were too young to have seen the 02 Kings so the playoff drought is all they’ve known. A couple of them have stopped watching because what’s the point? There’s no fond memories for them to look back on and there’s certainly no light at the end of this never ending tunnel.
Also, think about all the people who’ve moved here from the Bay Area. Do you think they’re going to root for this franchise when they’ve watched Curry play for the last 12 years?
Who’s going to be left rooting for this team in 10 years?
To your point, I moved to the Bay Area about 5 years ago and I watch a fair amount of Warriors games now. Watching Curry is just so much more entertaining than anything the Kings are doing. I still root for the Kings but I just can’t do the daily grind of watching every game any more. It’s too depressing. I check in and if they’re competitive I’ll check it out but if not I just move on.
To go to your point:
A few years ago, I, an adult, happened to be walking near McClatchy High in a Kings hoodie when some high school students (presumably) walked past and burst out laughing, starting a WARRIORS chant.
This organization hasn’t just just shot themselves in the foot with the fanbase. They’ve shot the foot, pulled the bullet out, shot the other foot too, sawed off the remains, lit them on fire, and launched them out of a cannon.
I told a guy in Tahoe last weekend that I liked his Kings hat and he just stared at me for a new seconds clearly trying to sort out if I was being sarcastic or not. Being a Kings fan should be in the DSM-5.
Every time I see someone wearing Kings gear I have to wonder if they are optimistic or pessimistic/realist fans before I approach them. I naturally want to give them the knowing look of shared sadness.
My office full of Kings memorabilia has gone from a source of pride to somewhat relevant to classic to vintage to ironic to sad.
Most likely thing is that they lost a bet.
The Kings will always engender their share of civic pride. After all, the Kings were shitty when they first came here and there was a lot of civic pride in the team. They are the *only* major league sports franchise in town and on top of that they are one of the few major league franchises that the average joe can afford to attend in person. The average cost of a Warriors game (according to Alexa) is $200 a seat. My seat in the lower bowl (arguably a better than average seat) is ~$40. So, lots of people will go to games because it’s the only major league game they can afford to go to within driving distance even if the team is shit.
Do you think that there is any civic pride associated with this team at the moment? Or recently?
Nice arena, though.
Sure, it’s visible enough. Watch the pre-game show and look at all the people behind the broadcast booth in the arena rocking their Kings gear and rooting for the team. That’s an expression of civic pride IMNSHO.
That’s an expression of people wanting to get on tv, imho. Also, those folks are now the exception, not the rule.
If excitement about the Kings is part of the daily convo in your circle, then color me wrong. Plain and simple, I very rarely hear Kings talk outside of TKH, and never do I hear anything within a mile of civic pride associated with this team.
If their desire were only so they could get on tv then why are they rocking their Kings gear and why are they chanting for their team when they could just stand there and wave at the camera? I’ll grant you that getting on tv is a part of the motivation but I don’t believe that is the only motivation or even the primary motivation.
I’d like to see how you objectively determined that this is the exception or if this is just you butt pulled opinion. My butt pulled opinion is that it’s not the exception unless you consider fan attendance in general to be the exception. When I’m at a game the majority of fans around me are supportive of the team. There is the occasional fan complaining about certain players but that’s all been true. There’s been a lot of ‘refs suck’ chants that are pretty loud when the fans disagree with questionable foul calls.
When I’m about town after a game and I’m wearing my Kings gear I will get asked who won the game by people around me. I even get into conversations about the team with cashiers at the grocery store when I’m checking out. Kings talk outside of TKH is definitely down but it’s not nonexistent or rare.
The organization will continue putting out decades-old JWill videos on social media because that’s all they’ve got.
When your franchise’s highlights are all in standard resolution, you have clearly got a problem.
In Kings game’s lately by the middle of the 3rd period, you can pretty much tell where the game is going, and there’s no way the Kings are coming back. Time to change the channel.
What other franchises in sports can compete with the Kings complete ineptitude?
How many Kings GMs does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
“Hey, that’s a good one! What do you think, Vlade?”
FIFY
How many GMs does it take to screw?
FIFY
How many GMs does it take to get screwed?
Question:
if you were the owner of this mess, wouldn’t you be embarrassed of your product? Wouldn’t you feel compelled to change what you’re doing after 8 years of failure? Would you not question your process?
Unfortunately, we may have to consider that the ownership and the fans have differing ideas on what constitutes “failure” and “success.”
This is the sad reality of where we are. Vivek really doesn’t care about the product they are putting out because the franchise valuation just continues to go up.
the spirit to compete to win games should be part of being an owner in an organization like the NBA. I know there’s not a way to calculate that, but it’s rotten for the fans of a team where an owner is content with profits.
I only buy TKH merch. Will probably stop league pass in case that gives revenue to the Kings. Won’t purchase game tickets now.
how else can we stop ownership from profiting during this drought?
Can’t really. Even not purchasing LP means you won’t have it mostly. It’s part of the national pot so that goes to all 30 teams, not just the Kings regardless of whomever you watch the most. If you want LP, buy it. If you don’t, don’t buy it is where I’m going with this Gonzo. Your 6 1/2 dollars isn’t making or breaking this scumbag franchise dude. (It would be awesome if it did, though, sadly.)
Part of those franchise calculations include being in the NBA, though, and some of it is market and other things when Forbes calculates that stuff. I wouldn’t necessarily say the Kings are killing it with their franchise valuation just because the number looks big. Because so much of the value in the arena deal was land related, that’s where they are making their real money on all of this.
It’s just the ownership doesn’t really get (and I’d love to say it’s only Vivek Ranadive but it’s not) what it takes to own a NBA team. It would be nice if they hired someone to run basketball operations, let that person hire the head coach, and give them a few years (say 3) to run their program.
Monte McNair has not had that. So what he said Luke Walton would be the head coach of the next playoff team? So what he’s trying to win games with the current roster and improve it? Isn’t that the goal? Is he supposed to encourage dysfunction? When you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t, you’re still fucking damned.
We all know this ownership group is bad, and regardless of whose to blame (and I don’t think the solution is as simple as getting rid of Vivek Ranadive unfortunately), the problem is the dysfunction and the encouragement of competing factions. There’s no continuity, there’s no same page encouragement. Which seemed to be something Monte McNair did try to promote regardless of the level of futility it would be received by the media and the fanbase.
At some point everyone is on the same, or we continue to judge the current GM based on the previous GM’s roster construction. This is not really Monte McNair’s roster. Does he have to own it? Sure. That’s part of the deal. But pretending this is Monte McNair’s roster is ridiculous and is about as useful as claiming donkey punching is an avantgarde sex act. Some things are not so no matter how often you state them. Just because Monte McNair is accountable, and Vlade Divac wasn’t, doesn’t mean McNair should have less time. It was going to take time if things didn’t work out and patience to fix things. Perhaps the Kings organization should let someone qualified to sit in the chair rather than making another panic firing and lusting after pointless goals that can’t be achieved without a player who can essentially push you there.
Meanwhile, I’m watching the Memphis Phoenix game. I think the Grizzlies should fire Taylor Jenkins because the Grizzlies have lost a big lead to the Suns and Phoenix might win even though the Grizz are up 5 with 4 mins to go. Because, reasons. Well, up 4 with Paul on the line for an And1 to cut it to 3 with 73 seconds to go.
Off with their heads I say!
Actually it sounds like you think it’s going well ! Great players, coaches , GM and owners in place and just need a few more years ! Yeah- that’s the ticket !
Apparently reading comprehension isn’t your thing. Try again sparky.
It is difficult to comprehend a mishmash of unrelated thoughts ! Greg Wissinger you are not !
More like ass kissinger.
I feel like you are very forgiving of Vivek in this post? While much of the ownership group has come and gone, he has been the 1 constant. Reports say he has had his hands in many of the basketball decisions that have crippled this franchise since he took over.
I am absolutely not in favor of moving on from McNair, but I am curious at what point you would say this is “his roster?” How long do you expect it to take for a new GM to make some kind of mark on the personnel?
Sidenote: I’m not sure comparing him to Vlade’s tenure makes sense since Vlade was given an uncommonly long tenure given his lack of results.
It wasn’t McNair’s roster when he came in two offseasons and a trade deadline ago. He hasn’t done much other than draft a couple of guys. This offseason, he said their goal was to add defense, which he claimed to accomplish, and that they were in a fantastic place as far as the roster goes. The Kings returned more players than 28 other teams.
McNair said that both coaches were the coach that was going to take the team to the playoffs. Jason Anderson reported last week that the mandate is that the team makes the playoffs this season. McNair has had more than enough opportunity to make changes. This is Monte McNair’s roster. Vivek is clearly a problem, if not the problem. But McNair’s name is on the door, and this 35 win team with no meaningful change is a 35 win team for the third year in a row. Let’s if McNair actually does anything about it before he gets fired. Tick tick tick…
And to be clear, I don’t think McNair should be fired. But as has been the case since the day he was hired, he needs to get off his ass and change this bad roster.
I do understand what you’re saying, but I don’t see how you can point to the Kings keeping more players than almost every other team, after a year in which they were largely terrible, and then excoriate the front office for not flipping these players for better ones.
These things are related.
Yet teams who were recently even worse than the Kings, often with even fewer assets, find ways to be proactive and leapfrog the Kings every year.
And I don’t think anyone is “excoriating” the front office for not flipping these players directly for better ones. I think what people are getting frustrated with is a near complete lack of meaningful movement in any direction at all.
If he’s not embarrassed for owning a terrible loser sports franchise he lacks self respect. #Sacramento Proud, though!
my question was if YOU were the owner. Would you be content with it?
I don’t know. I’m not sure how bad I would feel about owning a mediocre island.
its a competitive league, not an island. The whole point of the league is to win games.
It’s also end stage capitalism where if you’re a Have instead of a Have Not, you’re wringing every last drop of value and profit you can out of anything and everything you can get your hands on, no matter the cost. How much does a shiny trophy or rings or playoff merch really matter to a team’s valuation?
I’d be curious to see what happened to the valuations of small market teams before and after winning a championship, like Milwaukee.
I hope for end stage playoff drought
….all NBA players make millions.
if you were a player, would you be content with just earning millions?
maybe some players we are familiar with are content. But some
NBA players care about winning—some even enough that they’ll take less salary for a chance at a championship.
maybe it’s different for owners, but I thought perhaps they were competitive, too.
I think most, if not all, owners would prefer that their team wins. That said, I wouldn’t say it is the top priority for most of them. The players and owners both want to be the best at their endeavor. The difference is that the players primary endeavor is playing basketball. The owners’ primary endeavor is making money.
True, true.
To add, some owners will go over the cap and pay penalties, and some will even fire a coach/ hire a new one and have both on payroll if they feel it can help them win games.
I think some other NBA owners would try to make changes if they were faced with what Vivek currently owns. I think they would understand they could make even more money with a winning product, especially one that would gain revenue from playoff games and more merchandise sales.
I agree. Offering a premium product is one way to make money. But there’s a reason the top 20 richest people in America list includes 3 Waltons.
Players make more millions if they play better. Owners, perhaps too but the difference isn’t as stark.
My neighbor’s yard is terrible, it’s full of weeds and overgrown. Meanwhile, his home value increases right along with the rest of us.
Wait… are we neighbors?
I know a guy who cuts grass for a living and could use a couple of bucks.
When do you think the Kings will make the playoffs (not the play-in which doesn’t count) again? Do you think anyone will ever break the playoff futility record after the Kings do?
I’m putting my money on NASA rather than the Kings. James Webb telescope will detect alien life in 5 years. Kings will make playoffs after at least 5 years.
The good news is, when we discover alien life and the Monstars show up, they won’t need to stop in Sacramento to steal anyone’s talent. They’ll assume it was already stolen.
What happens first?
Seattle gets a team, or the Sea of Tranquility does?
I’d be fine trading the Kings ever winning a championship to give Ol’ Musky his one way trip to Mars.
40% of the people will deny it’s happening and get eaten to prove the rest of us wrong.
and another 40% will declare them the spawn of the devil and want to go to war.
Oddly, the Venn diagram of those two groups would be close to a perfect circle.
FIFY
When aliens discover us peeping into the bedroom windows they’ll wipe all life off the face of the planet.
Can James Webb a legit PG and SF in other planets?
Can James Webb find a legit PG & SF in other planets?
Misery, turmoil, breakdown, breakdown, breakdown, luck and a logical draft and some kid now aged 10 will lead Kings to playoffs.
So is there a possibility this team ever makes the playoffs with Fox and Haliburton as the stars of the Kings. Is there a coach that can get the most out of these players? Will Fox ever play defense? If the best player won’t play defense why would anyone else?
As “the stars?” Probably not. But there’s certainly a possibility they make the playoffs with Fox and Haliburton as core members of the team.
I’m going to state as an axiom that one of Fox or Haliburton or both should be on the court for all 48 minutes of regulation-length games.
That given, so far Fox has averaged 34 minutes per game and Haliburton has as well though his might be juiced due to Fox’s absence so I’ll say 33 MPG. There were 15 minutes of overtime but whatever ignore that.
That means Fox plays without Haliburton for 15 minutes and Haliburton plays without Fox for 14 minutes. They essentially play 19.5 minutes together.
Assuming, each player is the primary ball handler/initiator/distributor when the other is off the court, do you think Tyrese can play that role when both him and Fox are on? In other words, when they are both on the court, can Tyrese be the primary distributor and Fox the secondary? What might need to change in their games for this to go well?
Based on recent play I think a good strategy would be for Haliburton to be the primary playmaker and when the shot clock starts winding down give the ball to Fox to collapse the defense and either score or kick the ball out to a 3-pt shooter. Fox essentially becomes a slashing 2 guard with ancillary playmaking duties.
Though, at that point, I think you have to think long and hard about whether a one-way, “slashing 2 guard with ancillary playmaking duties” is someone you want to be paying the max to. Or if you’re better off trading him.
I don’t think you necessarily NEED to trade him. I think Fox and Haliburton CAN be a good fit. The question, as always, is where are you going to get that elite all-around wing and high-level 3-and-D rim-protector you need to make that guard pairing really work.
Regardless, yes, given the current roster, Haliburton should be the primary half-court facilitator.
I think classifying Fox as a one-way player is overly harsh. When he puts in the effort he’s a decent defender and when he doesn’t he’s not. And a lot of the time he doesn’t look like he’s putting in the effort.
We’re in agreement that we necessarily NEED to trade him. But if you’re going to trade one of Haliburton or Fox I’d choose to trade Fox at this point.
I also agree that the pairing can work (and my original comments were my thoughts about how that might work) and that we need that 3rd player to make that pairing click.
When he puts in effort he’s a decent 1v1 perimeter defender and can jump some passing lanes. But he still doesn’t show much of a clue when it comes to defending offensive actions or overall team defense.
How about we just say he doesn’t add value on that end?
What’s the most effective way for fans to try to drive meaningful change in the organization? It seems there’s no motivation or competence for the change to come from within.
Inception. Gotta infiltrate their dreams.
I think they’re already invading our nightmares.
Same way consumers drive change at any business. Stop buying the product and encourage others to do the same.
Really wish MLS had pushed through… 🙁
We have been on the Kings Pass for a couple years now. This month, we paid $49 a ticket for 10 games, or less than $5/game. We have made the decision that this team is not worth it and are cancelling the plan until Monte/Vivek do something interesting enough to care about. 4 hours of my life + $5/ticket + $10 to park my car isn’t worth it to watch these losers.
I think a lot of people will disagree with you. See my comments above.
Good job Gregory. I forgive you for even wasting your money. The NBA will notice when the stadium is empty and when they can’t blame it on Covid anymore.
Puking. It just works.
How will the 2022 Draft Class Rank compared to 2021 and 2018?
Serious question:
Who are the people in the Kings scouting dept?
Can you list their names here?
Who’s in charge of scouting the NCAA, the Gleague and International Leagues?
That needs to be qualified by separating the past two drafts from those previous. I don’t know whether the same people were doing the scouting, but it’s basically impossible to beef with the last two drafts.
We all want something to lean on in yet another lost season, but I’m just going to say it: Davion needs to improve his shooting and/or playmaking for him to be a good pick. At this moment, he’s a better defending, worse shooting Cory Joseph, and that’s not enough. He’s an older rookie, but he’s obviously been in the league less than a season, and is extremely high effort, so there’s time for that to happen.
Mitchell’s mechanics seem fine, and I’m certain that he’ll manage to be an average or better shooter/scorer. He’s going to get three buckets a game just blowing by his man to the hoop.
He’s fast, and he’s quick. He can create open looks, and I like what he was doing with his midrange game before the unpleasantness.
Agreed. I’m very hopeful he works it out. Nothing seems broken.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but who was better and available at that pick? You could argue Duarte but I don’t think he was really on the radar at that pick. That would have been a great pick no one saw coming. There were a bunch of Moody and Bouknight fans but not sure they are going to be better pros at this point. Biggest argument might have been Sengun. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t argue that Davion was a “bad pick”.
Agreed. I also wouldn’t argue that he was an un-beefable pick.
I wouldn’t either, and he’s certainly not a finished product. Neither are the players selected behind him. We need to see some offensive improvement, which I’m hopeful we will, for him to be a truly valuable player.
Agree with your point.
I just want to know the people who currently comrpise the scouting team.
What do they do NOW or the last few months? are they attending college games?
I’m sure they are not supposed to attend or watch Kings games. Just look out for hidden gems and bright prospects somewhere – because we’re perennially at the bottom of top 15 picks.
Ehhhh. I’m not sure it’s impossible to beef with them. Haliburton is a clear win. But the jury is certainly out on Mitchell and none of the other picks have offered much reason to think they’re going to have any impact yet. It’s certainly too early to tell on any of them, but they certainly aren’t beef-proof.
Beef away, what I’m saying is that both of the first-rounders look like they’re going to be pretty good NBA players, and sooner rather than later.
When you’re in the lower lottery, you can’t draft players who will be projects, unless you’re 99% certain that they’ll pay off. And some of those guys end up chosen in the top five, although more are probably selected past the lottery. With this crap, middling draft position, the can’t-miss guys are gone, and your fanbase would shit the bed if you took a guy who was unlikely to have an impact for two or three years.
I’m down for the tank, because doing the opposite this season isn’t going to have a worthwhile payoff.
My question: does anybody really think it’s just that ‘they don’t try hard enough?’ As in, these guys have so much ‘talent’ that they should win 45-48 games, but they’re just so ‘lazy’ that they’re going to lose 50? According to recycled hack Alvin Gentry and NBC Sports California, the answer is yes. We don’t need Wes Unseld Jr or J.B. Bickerstaff or (former King, Pop protege) Ime Udoka to coach. We don’t need one lead ball handler instead of two, who make each other less effective. We don’t need to stop being collectively both undersized and slow. We just need to TRY HARDER. How long is anyone in their right mind going to believe that? Not counting the dumbass who wrote last night’s NBC Sports California article of course, and Alvin, who’s getting paid to say it.
I think Gentry is peddling far less of the usual Kings-related BS than anyone who has worked in the organization in years. But if you’re saying the roster is the problem, I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s been the problem since 2019, when Vlade Divac built it.
He’s not going to let this be his last stop and not have his say so. You might as well call out this group for their poor performance. It’s not like you’re winning games not saying anything. That’s just the reality of this deal at this point.
This comes back to the way this organization operates, and really the way ownership operates. Walton wasn’t fired when Basketball Operations wanted to fire him, and then he was fired during the season when it would have the least amount of impact.
I think Doug Christie hit the nail on the head when asked about the Kings’ defense he said that defense is all about effort, it’s hard work, it doesn’t feel good, but you gotta do it and you gotta do it all the time.
The Kings’ problem is two-fold: They are (as a group) both basketball-lazy and basketball-stupid. Fox, for example, is basketball-lazy. Hield, on the other hand, is basketball-stupid. There’s enough lazy and/or stupid players on the roster to spoil the whole bunch and make the product stink on a nightly/monthly/annual basis. This is why we have a collective fangasm every time we see a new Kings player who is both hardworking and smart (e.g., Haliburton and Mitchell). It’s depressing how not being lazy or stupid makes someone such an outlier on this team.
Assuming you aren’t trading Fox or Haliburton, what kind of trades would you make to improve the roster and go for the playoffs?
(Note: I’m well aware that you, Will, and whomever else answering this disagrees entirely with this POV. You’re welcome to cop out but the point is to improve the roster so this team can actually win games.)
You’ re not getting any impact players for Hield/Bagley/Barnes. So therein lies the problem. You’re dreaming. Players like Reddish, Wood, Sabonis, Simmons, Ingram, Brown won’t be available for any of the aforementioned.
You may be able to get young prospects, more role players and some mid- late first round picks. But, Actual difference makers. Forget it.
So, trading any combination of Bagley, Barnes, Hield, and Holmes will net you some value. But, it won’t a great player.
Kings have 2 paths and it’s really quite simple. Either they trade at least one of their top 2 players for a great player that fits this team better or go Full Rebuild.
Moving deck chairs with more role players won’t improve this team. That’s been done to death with this team.
Dreaming of what? That the Kings could be good? I was around for the last go around of 50 win teams, and I wasn’t little then either. It can happen again if the right people are running things and what needs to be available is available.
Is Hield and Bagley going to get you Domantas Sabonis? Of course not. I never said as much.
What I would like to see is a Mitchell-Haliburton-Fox trio starting lineup. Put whomever you want in the starting lineup with those three (it will be Barnes and Holmes but I’m open to whomever), but start them as a trio. I would like to see a trade to add to that group, but it’s going to require draft picks and probably 2 draft picks at that. Unprotected would be my guess, and well there’s alot of people that would automatically disagree with that on principle would be my suspicion.
Put whatever you have to on the table. But I think the right way to go is to build around those three and figure out your defensive issue’s as best as you can. But putting MItchell to stop starting PG’s might help more than any singular thing the Kings can do.
Outside of a trade that can help you play with that smaller group of PG/Wing players.
Trading Fox isn’t as simple as some would like to think. Teams have to not only take on the money (28.3 million), but they also have to commit a designated max player slot to him as well. And that changes a lot of the calculation on whether or not acquiring De’Aaron Fox is worth it to other teams. For instance, Charlotte might want De’Aaron Fox, but they also might not want to commit a max slot to Fox with Miles Bridges getting bigger money this off-season in all likelihood and with LaMelo Ball likely in line for such a contract. I don’t think Charlotte is a likely destination for Fox, but Charlotte could fit him in as far as a max slot pretty easily. It’s just making the money work and that’s just as tough in a league where many teams simply operate within 5 million of the tax line.
There’s also the fact that if the Kings wanted to trade Richaun Holmes, and that shouldn’t be off the table, IMO, they have to wait until January 15th because he was resigned with EBR’s. (This is true of Terence Davis also.)
Either way, I think rebuilding the OKC way that so many seem to want around here isn’t as simple or as doable as it is often opined. It ignores, for better or worse, the realities of trading the players away that fans want traded away.
I agree that a trade to improve the roster would involve our picks. If you exclude De’Aaron and Tyrese, our best assets are our first round picks. Trading unprotected picks is tough on the one hand because what if you miss the playoffs, are late in the lottery, but jump to top 4? Missing out on the 13th pick is regrettable. Missing out on the 3rd pick could be a disaster.
On the other hand, if you trade unprotected picks you convey them in that year and then have the flexibility to trade picks down the line with protections or not. If you trade the 2022 1st with protections that could go on for 4 years, you essentially prevent yourself from trading your first for that stretch, assuming the team continues to suck and protects the pick each year. For the Kings at the ’22 trade deadline, that gives them only one bullet in their draft pick gun. Then no bullet for years. I’m sure many of us remember the first that was traded for JJ Hickson in 2011 that was protected for six years before becoming a second round pick.
If you’re pushing picks into the middle, I might prefer to trade the current year with no protections for a very impactful player. Then trade a swap in the next year and a protected pick in the following year. That gives you two picks to trade and one pick to swap.
Now, assuming you want to start Fox, Haliburton, and Mitchell, I think you need strong rim protection and rebounding. Myles Turner is rumored to be available and Jake Fischer said that Carlisle has an affinity for Barnes from their time together in Dallas. For the Pacers, that would mean Brogdon, their new SG (assuming LeVert is dealt), Warren, Barnes, and Sabonis moves to center. That could be an improvement, idk. The Kings would also send their 2022 unprotected 1st for the Pacers to add a player in their soft reset.
Now, you have Holmes and Turner which won’t work if you want to keep Turner per reports, so Holmes needs a new home, preferably for another stretch big that can also rebound at a high rate. I’d look to the Rockets offering Holmes, a 2023 swap, and 2024 top 4 protected first going to unprotected in 2025. For the Rockets, they probably have a longer timeline on their rebuild so the 2024 or 2025 1st is okay. They will probably not use the 2023 swap, hence the inclusion of the ’24 or ’25 pick. Holmes is not on their timeline, actually older than Wood, but he has a fantastic contract and could be flipped for something else down the line, meanwhile providing a great rolling big to help develop Jalen Green and Kevin Porter Jr. The Kings get a definite strong rebounder, and he can play next to Turner as he shoots 34% from three. Not great but not bad.
The ending starting five is Mitchell, Fox, Haliburton, Wood, and Turner. There is no viable combo forward on the roster, but if you want to start the three points, you’re rolling without that anyway with the opening group.
Myles Turner does not move the needle. Why do some people think Turner is a good big? Please explain. I would rather keep Holmes.I am really baffled how some people hype a guy who averages 12-7 in his career. 12-7? I would rather have Andre Drummond. At least he will ger you 15-20 rebunds a night. If rebounding is an issue with this team. Which it is. Why are you ging after a player who is a mediocre rebound? Yes, he’s mediocre. Sabonis is another story. But, you’re not getting an All Star for Picks and any combo of picks, Hield/Bagley/Barnes. That’s for sure. Teams will have alot more to offer for Sabonis.
With all due respect, Please tell me how Turner improves this team? There is a reason the Pacers are looking to move him. He’s a one dimensional big who is average defensively. Can’t shoot the 3, so please don’t tell me he’s a stretch 4. Adding Levert to the package doesn’t help either. Levert is a 3(Which the Kings need) But, a 3 who can’t shoot the 3. 31%. Might as well keep Barnes. Barnes puts up similar numbers with a better 3 pt shot and better defense.
I am not even sure Pacers will just take the Kings future picks and randomness of players(Hield, Bagley, Barnes) Why would they be remotely interested in any of those players.They are not trying to win now.
If Carlisle is trying to rebuild, he’s looking for young prospects, expirings and picks.
Turner does not rebound, yes. Hence, Wood. Their starting lineup would still be a poor rebounding team, but Wood would help. I realize it’s still a weakness, and you could do better at center with rebounding. However, Myles Turner’s 4.9% OReb % is probably that low since he is spacing to the corners on offense. He is second on the Pacers after Sabonis in DReb % at 19.6%. He is obviously near the basket a lot since he is a rim protector but maybe he is concerned with guarding the ball so much that he doesn’t rebound it super well. That’s just a hypothesis on my part and could be completely wrong. Regardless, Turner would play the same role on the Kings, so his rebounding numbers would be similar.
I respectfully disagree on two points. Turner is not an average defender. He leads the league in blocks per game (> 1 GP) a full 0.5 per game ahead of Gobert and he gets 68.9% of the Pacers blocks. His defensive rating is fourth on the Pacers but only 0.6 behind the leader (> 10 MPG). His defensive field goal % at the rim is 53.8% which is good. He is pretty good defender at least.
He is a stretch big. Per Cleaning the Glass he shoots 38% from the corners and 35% from the non-corner 3’s for 36% overall. That’s not lighting the world on fire, but it’s good enough that players have to respect the player. From a legitimate center, it’s pretty damn good. I sorted by “Bigs” on CTG, but they have Kuzma, Crowder, and Carmelo classified as Bigs. Out of the true centers, Turner is near the top in 3P shooting. If that is off on a night, he shoots 80% at the rim.
I doubt Carlisle is looking to rebuild in his new job and their owner has said they’re not, but if Carlisle is Bagley is expiring and a draft pick was in my comment.
You have to wonder if this was done to protect the team from the Maloofs.
Yeah, that was the theory back then.
Occam’s Razor says it was just a bad move.
Why are we trying to build a team around a 3-guard lineup? I get why we would play a 3-guard lineup given the flaws of the current roster. But why would we use our assets (such as they are) and make moves to support a 3-guard lineup instead of using them to try to better balance the roster? Starting Mitchell, Fox and Haliburton together is a short-term mitigation strategy. Not a long-term plan.
I don’t like how the text columns get all skinny on these long threads. It’s very off-putting.
San Antonio has a fairly similar record right now. Would you swap the Kings for their entire roster? I’m not too deeply into them, but I’d say they are run competently. Still, on paper, the Kings team should look better, no?
Most people felt the Fox needed to grow into his contract, but there were not a lot of voices objecting the new contract (probably as a small market tax).
Barnes is a veteran with some value, Buddy had some value as shown in the Lakers trade. The rookies were solid choices, I don’t read a lot of complaints.
As a starting point from an asset management perspective, this should not be too bad, even if you want to start from scratch.
I am not sure. Of course, their coaching is at a whole other level. But, I woould take Murray over Fox. I think he’s more of a leader. A more well rounded player.
Taking everything into consideration: skill level, contract length, salary, age, etc., who has more trade value: Fox or Hali?
Hali for certain ! Contract of Fox a killer !
Would it be wise for the Kings to make a major trade while the current coach is a interim?
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