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Chainmail: Fan Therapy Session

You ask, we answer!

Welcome back to Chainmail! This week, we'll have a special guest, as Will is out of town. Who might that be, you ask? I'll let you know as soon as Greg allows me back into the Slack channel! [Editor's Note: Tim knows what he did. -Greg]

Here's a quick review of the Kings last few days:

  • The Kings have lost three games in a row, once to the 4-8 Pacers, once to the 7-3 Suns, and once to the 4-7 Spurs. Not exactly a great look for a team talking quite loudly about the postseason
  • De'Aaron Fox has looked much better over his last five games, as he's put up an average of 23.6 points and 5.4 assists on 48/40/80 shooting splits. He's also averaging six free throw attempts per game in that stretch, a key element of his game that was missing in the early parts of the season.
  • Richaun Holmes was semi-benched in Wednesday night's loss to the San Antonio Spurs, recording only seven first-half minutes and ending the game at 18 minutes, having taken only four shots.
  • Jahmi'us Ramsey has gotten the call over Louis King and Robert Woodard while Tyrese Haliburton has been out with a sore back. In Monday's loss to the Suns, he played just a few minutes, but with Terence Davis also out on Wednesday, Ramsey saw his first real action of the season, scoring seven points on five shots in 21 minutes on the floor.
  • Marvin Bagley refused to enter the game against the Phoenix Suns, an impressive anti-tank stance for such a young player.

Now, get to asking, so we can get to answering!

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SexyNapear
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November 11, 2021 7:43 am

Do the Kings guards practice pounding the ball incessantly while ignoring their teammates in practice because that’s seems like the only offensive game plan for Fox, Davion and Hield. I’m assuming Tyrese just ignores the game plan.

Last edited 10 months ago by SexyNapear
eddie41
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November 11, 2021 7:44 am

If a playmaker (eg., Haliburton) gets injured, shouldn’t the next guy on the depth chart be another playmaker? In football if a quarterback gets injured, the replacement is not determined by approximate height but rather by the skills they have. A playmaker can usually dribble, pass, and shoot, right? So wouldn’t that mean King or Coleman should be in the rotation when Haliburton is injured?

Last edited 10 months ago by eddie41
BabalooMagoo
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November 11, 2021 7:46 am

Why can’t we have nice things?

sonny
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November 11, 2021 2:18 pm
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

Because Andy Sims is always lurking somewhere.

andy_sims
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November 12, 2021 11:40 am
Reply to  sonny

I’ll accept part of that, but some responsibility must be borne by the fact that we can’t block annoying .gif files in threads.

Cash_Considerations
November 11, 2021 7:56 am

Am I wrong for feeling strongly about this? I’m super tired of guys like Luke, Keith Smart, Ty Corbin.. The Kings should someday actually get one of those great coaches whose teams set screens, run clever plays, and have defensive schemes. Also, I would love a coach who holds his players accountable…isn’t just “the nice guy.” We had one with Adelman, and I think we had another with Malone. Other teams get the Rick Carlisles, Erik Spoelstras, and Quin Snyders. I want my Kings to get one…soon. Am I supposed to just keep being patient with Luke? Does that really work out?

rockbottom
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November 11, 2021 8:03 am

When Luke is replaced it will be a Woke hire ! See Broadcast team !

1951
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November 11, 2021 8:33 am
Reply to  rockbottom

What’s a woke hire? Be specific, say what you mean.

AmateurNerd
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November 11, 2021 8:53 am
Reply to  1951

Grabbing popcorn now.

BestHyperboleEver
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November 11, 2021 12:05 pm
Reply to  1951

I don’t know, I think what he means is clear as day.

ForKingsandCountry
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November 11, 2021 9:10 am
Reply to  rockbottom

Wut

TheKingsGuard
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November 11, 2021 11:46 am
Reply to  rockbottom

What? Because Kayte is a woman? yeah broadcast team aren’t my favorite, but everyone has bonafides to get those roles. It’s not random people off the street to check those boxes.

Carl
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November 11, 2021 12:08 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

When Luke is replaced it will be a Woke hire ! See Broadcast team !

What’s the term when a white guy automatically gets hired to a job? Serious question.

By my count, 2/3 of the Sacramento Kings 18 head coaches have been white dudes, and they’ve had one non-white GM. 53% of NBA head coaches are white guys, and that’s a record low. 27 of 32 NFL head coaches are white guys. 2/3 of NBA GMs are white guys. 84% of NFL GMs are white guys.

There’s certainly nothing wrong with hiring a qualified white guy (not you, Luke Walton.)

I would love for you to explain to me why when a white guy gets hired, as has been the case for almost all NBA and NFL coaching and front office jobs, there’s no special term, and you have no complaints, I guess because it must be based on “merit,” and not let’s say, “affirmative action.” But when anyone else gets hired, it’s “woke,” and presumably a problem.

Please do explain your reasoning.

sonny
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November 11, 2021 2:21 pm
Reply to  Carl

I’m a minority but I completely agree with you Carl!

andy_sims
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November 12, 2021 3:54 pm
Reply to  Carl

Get ’em, Spangler.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
November 11, 2021 9:36 am

I’d like Monte to look into Darvin Ham this summer. The dude has been the lead assistant under Coach Bud for some time now in both ATL and now Milwaukee. He seems poised to take the next step as a head coach.

BestHyperboleEver
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November 11, 2021 11:47 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Ham and Hammon are both strong candidates. Maybe Jay Larranaga. From college, I’d be really interested to see Tony Bennett (no, not that one) get a look. Guys like Jay Wright and Mark Few are interesting but it’s really hard for me to see them leave their gigs for the Kings. Chris Beard probably deserves a look as well.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 11, 2021 11:55 am

Jay Wright would be outstanding. Probably top of my list, but I think you are right, why would he leave Villanova to come to this shit show.

Kosta
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November 11, 2021 12:57 pm

But maybe even the other Tony Bennett instead of Walton

Carl
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November 11, 2021 1:27 pm

Chris Beard probably deserves a look as well.

comment image

Daydreamer
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November 11, 2021 1:33 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Becky Hammon, long-time assistant to one of the greats?

BestHyperboleEver
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November 11, 2021 11:33 am

I’m not a huge fan of Joerger, but he did make significant positive adjustments between season 2-3, showed an aptitude for drawing up plays, and seemed to try to hold players accountable.

Jman1949
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November 11, 2021 11:40 am

But Joerger wasn’t a players coach. He hurt Buddy’s feelings and wouldn’t start Marvin from day 1!

TheKingsGuard
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November 11, 2021 11:47 am
Reply to  Jman1949

Seriously….look back on it now…we may have let him go because of the way he dealt with Marvin’s pick and his play….what a mistake…

Klam
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November 11, 2021 1:03 pm
Reply to  TheKingsGuard

For the most part he played to the player’s strengths and used them that way. I remember Buddy being used so much more efficiently than he is now.

Bbmuteman
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November 11, 2021 1:42 pm
Reply to  TheKingsGuard

I read it was because of his non-relationship with assistant gm Brandon williams.

coolhandluke
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November 12, 2021 7:14 am
Reply to  Jman1949

Joerger is an ass but he knows his stuff. Buddy and Marvin had their best seasons under him.

deepshot22
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November 11, 2021 8:14 am

If the Kings’ wheels continue to fall off but Holmes continues his great play, do they trade him?

Seems like as much as we all love Holmes, he is far from the ideal 5 to start with Fox. Fox needs a 5 that stretches the floor to allow Fox to get in the paint. Again, I love Holmes. But if he doesn’t stretch the floor and we keep Fox long term, is he the best option going forward?

Last edited 10 months ago by deepshot22
Rosevillain
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November 11, 2021 8:40 am
Reply to  deepshot22

So, sort of like Fox with Embiid?

deepshot22
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November 11, 2021 10:24 am
Reply to  Rosevillain

Embiid the center who shot 37.7% from deep last year and over 39% so far this year?

Rosevillain
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November 11, 2021 3:21 pm
Reply to  deepshot22

Yes, I’m suggesting Fox go play him in return for Simmons.

deepshot22
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November 11, 2021 3:36 pm
Reply to  Rosevillain

Well then I’m in agreement.

jwalker1395
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November 11, 2021 9:19 am
Reply to  deepshot22

I’ve been pitching Holmes + stuff for Turner for a couple years now. But honestly, Holmes seems like better value than Turner at this point. Not that fit doesn’t play a role, but it is something to consider.

Last edited 10 months ago by Jacob Walker
deepshot22
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November 11, 2021 10:28 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

IMO, Turner’s ability to both shoot the 3 and excel at shot blocking make his value better than Holmes’s. Depending on the stuff, I’d make that trade quickly.

BestHyperboleEver
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November 11, 2021 11:53 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

I don’t know. Turner is 3 years younger, only gets paid $5MM more, and has been exceptional so far this season. If you can get Turner for “Holmes + stuff” I think you have to jump at it. The problem is I don’t see any reason IND would do that unless that “stuff” is worth at least, if not more, than Holmes.

TheBanquetBear
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November 11, 2021 8:14 am

On the podcasts, you have mentioned the king’s need a power forward type player to be able to stretch the floor/run pick and rolls. It seems that most teams in the recent NBA have shifted away from using the power forward position, so who are the examples you would point to that have this kind of player anymore that are being successful? It looks like most teams have gone toward a double wing starting lineup rather than double big, so what does having a power forward on the court even mean anymore and how would it benefit the offense?

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 11, 2021 8:32 am
Reply to  TheBanquetBear

Great question. Aykis mentioned yesterday that Barnes currently might just be the best PF in the western conference (AD plays more a center). I like your observation of a double wing lineup. Looking at the West, the good teams are rolling out guys like Crowder, Royce O’neal, Covington, etc. Look at what Bridges is doing for the Hornets! It does seem the idea of playing someone like Barnes at the 4 is the new trend in the league. From that it seems the Kings would be better suited to find another 3/4 wing as opposed to a big PF. Harkless just ain’t cutting it.

andy_sims
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November 12, 2021 11:53 am
Reply to  TheBanquetBear

I was thinking about it, and wondered if Philly might be willing to discuss getting Hield/Bagley/picks for Tobias Harris. He certainly checks a lot of boxes in Sacramento, even with his max deal. He’s got two years left after this season. Hell, even Fox & Bagley with fewer or no picks might be worth considering. They might covet Buddy’s excellent volume shooting, but Fox would excel playing with someone who has the kind of on-court gravity like Embiid.

Random thoughts, nothing more.

RobHessing
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November 11, 2021 8:20 am

I have a question, and I’ll take the answer off air:comment image

Klam
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Nostradumbass 18
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November 11, 2021 8:38 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Being a fan of this team…
comment image

Kosta
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November 11, 2021 8:49 am
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comment image

Last edited 10 months ago by Kosta
RobHessing
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November 11, 2021 10:28 am
Reply to  Kosta

Me watching the game last night:comment image

1951
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November 11, 2021 8:32 am

Luke Walton. Why? Just why?

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 8:42 am
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comment image

Kosta
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November 11, 2021 9:03 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Why not Murray coach the Kings instead?
comment image

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 8:46 am

At this point should the Kings just tell Bagley to go home to Arizona and wait for either a trade or cut him post deadline if one fails to materialize? Why even dress him, bring him on road games or keep him around the team?

HongKongKingsFan
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November 11, 2021 8:48 am

Why Jahmi’us Ramsey has gotten the call over Louis King  ?

I mean, I like both of them, but King fit a positional need…he got handle, size, and plenty of shooting and scoring………

I think more firepower is needed for current rotation, either put in Louis King in rotation or feed Barnes down the paint..(which mean a sure basket) is one of the adjustment should be made.

Kosta
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November 11, 2021 8:55 am

Is it possible to send Bagley down and send Louis King up?

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 8:59 am
Reply to  Kosta

Kings can’t send Bagley down without his permission because of his tenure in the league. I believe only 1st and 2nd year players can be sent down to the G-League under team orders. Even veteran players recovering from injury have to grant permission to be sent down.

Kosta
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November 11, 2021 9:04 am
Reply to  Adamsite

ah, thanks, Adam.

HongKongKingsFan
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November 11, 2021 9:08 am
Reply to  Kosta

even not sending Bagley down, isn’t Louis King is on 2-ways contract, and can play with the main team ?

I just very curious why he got zero playing time.

eddie41
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November 11, 2021 9:12 am

Exactly. If Haliburton, Fox or Mitchell miss a game due to injury, the next guy up is King.

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 9:14 am
Reply to  eddie41

Is Kings a playmaker, though? I’d think the next guy up would be Ramsey.

eddie41
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November 11, 2021 9:46 am
Reply to  Adamsite

They are both young prospects, but at this point King has better handles, a better shot, a larger repertoire of moves, and can pass a bit too. Ramsey is better at drawing contact at the rim and finishing through contact, maybe a better rebounder, and although he has not shot particularly well he is known as a shooter from Texas Tech where he shot 40% or higher. Right now, I see one as a combo guard and the other as a wing, but they are both young prospects.

BestHyperboleEver
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November 11, 2021 11:56 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Neither of them are really playmakers. But King moreso than Ramsey.

sonny
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November 11, 2021 2:28 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I like Coleman on the roster instead of Woodard.

andy_sims
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November 12, 2021 11:57 am
Reply to  eddie41

There are two injured guards, and Ramsey is a guard. King is a wing, he said lyrically.

I want to see LK get some run, too, but he’s not the next man up for guard duty.

sonny
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November 11, 2021 2:27 pm

Because the FO is bad in assessing skills and talents.
All theyndo is Jack & Poy!

andy_sims
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November 12, 2021 3:57 pm
Reply to  sonny

While I’ll concede that thendo Jack & Poy, I’d say that the front office has been rather astute in assessing the skill and talent level of players.

Kosta
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November 11, 2021 8:54 am

It’s game 7 of the NBA Finals and the Kings are tied with their opponents in the final minute of double overtime.

As luck would have it, you have 4 players on the floor as the 5th just fouled out. On the bench you have two players to choose from to insert into the game because everyone else has either fouled out or got injured.

The two you have to choose from are:

Derrick Williams
Marvin Bagley

Who do you ask to get into the game?

(note: you’re trying to win the game)

Last edited 10 months ago by Kosta
HongKongKingsFan
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November 11, 2021 9:06 am
Reply to  Kosta

Depends on which 4 players left on court………

Also, don’t under-estimate D-Will, he played okay for the Kings……..he got great motor, run the floor well, he did move without the ball, and play both inside and outside….he can catch the ball much better than Bagley. I believe the BBIQ of D-Will is higher than Bagley, also D-Will plays better defense.

Most importantly, Vivek love him..comment image

Kosta
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November 11, 2021 9:15 am

Thanks for the well-thought out answer, HHKF!

So then I wonder if Derrick Williams will have the better career of the two…
comment image

Last edited 10 months ago by Kosta
Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 9:24 am
Reply to  Kosta

Fun fact: DWill is still just 30 years old and has been out of the league for 4 years.

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November 11, 2021 9:25 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I actually do wonder if Bagley will be in the league still when he’s 26.

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November 11, 2021 9:30 am
Reply to  Kosta

I see a Euro Championship in his very near future. DWill is a Bundesliga champion.

AmateurNerd
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November 11, 2021 4:37 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Mentally, he never entered the league.

WizsSox
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November 11, 2021 9:16 pm

Derrick Williams sighting…
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Last edited 10 months ago by WizsSox
sonny
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November 11, 2021 2:30 pm
Reply to  Kosta

The Kings can’t win if they have more than one opponents! lol
Are they playing against 2 teams in one game?

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November 11, 2021 9:04 am

I WAS TOLD DOUG CHRISTIE WOULD SAVE US!?
And he, together with TT and Davion would transfer our D into a juggernaut (=middle of the pack).

Why hasn’t that happened yet? When will it happen? Will it ever happen as long as Fox can dick around on D to his heart’s content?

Last edited 10 months ago by RikSmits
HongKongKingsFan
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November 11, 2021 9:22 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I think the main problem is there is no “Snake Head” in the starting lineup without Tyrese.

Fox does not looks like a leader, and he is not inspiring other teammate to play better (both defensively and offensively)

Barnes is vocal, but he just cannot do much all by himself….

Seriously, I would consider putting Mitchell into starting PG to set a good tone to start the game, and let Fox come off the bench as a spark..(also, he can drive in the lane easier against the 2nd unit of the opponent)

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 9:27 am

More and more, Fox is reminding me of Jrue Holiday (without the defensive chops). Both are billed as PGs with good slashing abilities but are really better suited off the ball, with a playmaker sharing the back court with them. Jrue had some of his best years playing next to Ball in N.O. Fox may be of the same mold.

Rosevillain
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November 11, 2021 10:20 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Fox would be a much better off ball defender too.

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November 11, 2021 11:51 am
Reply to  Rosevillain

Agreed. He could use his quickness to defend the passing lanes.

jwalker1395
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November 11, 2021 9:15 am

Going into this season, I believed that the Kings roster was the most talented it has been in quite a few years. Was I right? If so, then is this start to be blamed mostly on Walton or execution by the players?

If you disagree with the initial statement, then is Monte the one to blame?

But who am I kidding? My real question is – WHEN ARE WE GOING TO FIRE WALTON????????

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 9:20 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

If a Kings roster with three 20 point scorers in DMC, IT and Gay couldn’t crack 30 wins, why would this one top 40?

jwalker1395
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November 11, 2021 9:24 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah and Mike Malone was the head coach for those years. Perhaps the Kings really are cursed.

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 9:29 am
Reply to  jwalker1395

To be fair, as impressive as three 20ppg scorers is on paper, the rest of that team was shit. JT and BMac were the other starters.

BestHyperboleEver
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November 11, 2021 12:03 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah, this team might have a higher average talent level, but probably not the higher end talent. Currently, we have a couple-few Gay-level guys. Perhaps an IT level guy. But no one in the Cousins talent-tier.

Of course, that team wasn’t very good either. Being the most talented Kings team in the past decade+ is a depressingly low bar.

AmateurNerd
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November 11, 2021 9:29 am

Is there any universe where this team plays that awful 3Q against Phoenix, then goes on the road and lays a rotten egg in San Antonio, if it were coached by Dave Joerger? Or Greg Popovich? Or Nick Nurse? Or Steve Kerr? Or Mike Budenholzer? Or Doc Rivers? Or the local high school English teacher who led that team of upstart pubescent acne-faces to the JV league title last winter? Or… Or… Or… ?

SMF-PDXConnection
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November 11, 2021 10:03 am

What are you thankful for in 2021 that helps keep you grounded and sane as fans of this team?

RobHessing
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November 11, 2021 11:01 am

I’m thankful that none of these ass clowns are involved in the SF Giants organization.

Klam
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November 11, 2021 1:07 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Man, I’m gonna miss seeing Buster Posey out there. Was always my favorite player.

andy_sims
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November 12, 2021 12:00 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Clowns they may be, but they don’t donate millions to virulently racist groups. Giants fans should be mortified and raising hell.

Marty
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November 11, 2021 11:19 am

Still think they should build around Fox?

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 11, 2021 11:46 am
Reply to  Marty

Nope.

BeTheBall
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November 11, 2021 6:00 pm
Reply to  Marty

Nah, never did. Much like the Cousins era, this is a situation where the “feature” player is a passable 2nd fiddle in a middling playoff team, but really much more suited as a 3rd option.

Last edited 10 months ago by BeTheBall
jwalker1395
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November 11, 2021 6:07 pm
Reply to  Marty

Fox was always a No. 2 on a contender. I’ve been saving the No. 1 spot we build around for someone special…

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TheKingsGuard
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November 11, 2021 11:44 am

Mock Expansion Draft Scenario: You get to choose one of Fox or Dejounte Murray to be your point guard of the future, however, you have to decide now with all each of the players contract obligations and Fox’s current slump being applicable. Who do you choose? Coming from a Fox supporter who acknowledges his faults and skills…It’s an interesting decision to make.

Adamsite
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November 11, 2021 11:50 am
Reply to  TheKingsGuard

Ohhhhh…that’s a good one. Pretty wild to think Murray is basically being paid half of what Fox is.

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November 11, 2021 1:48 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

He had real injury concerns when he signed his deal. No injuries, and I guarantee he’d be making the same as fox now.

rff
citykidd
November 11, 2021 2:07 pm

If and/or when Walton is fired or not renewed why not give Bobby Jackson a shot at head coach?

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November 11, 2021 2:40 pm
Reply to  citykidd

Darvin Ham, David Vanterpool. With Wes Unseld Jr. off the market, these would be the top two on my wish list.

Marty
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