Articles | Kangz | Mailbag

Chainmail: Talkin’ fandom, next year’s rotation, and effort

Let's chat about the Kings, shall we?

Welcome back to Chainmail! Will is out this week (a tarp fell from the ceiling of Golden 1 Center and fell on him, straining his left pinky, which is his primary photoshop finger), so it's the giraffe or bust! Let's dive right in!

From Kosta:

Why do you stick around?

Yes, for some it's probably more about the TKH community at this point than the actual basketball team, but I'm sure there are other places for folks to find friendship and/or forums to talk about interests/hobbies. We make fun of our €œLucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown€ tradition of always coming back to see if things change, but 15 years is a big chunk of your life, and is there even a light at the end of the tunnel?

Tim: Man, how many times have I asked myself that question over the last six months or so? I stick around for a few reasons, one of which is the responsibilities of this site. I know in my heart of hearts that the Kings aren't going to provide a quality product on an night-to-night basis, so I'm determined that we'll provide a quality product here.

Beyond that, I do enjoy the ridiculousness of this organization. There's drama to be had, and drama is fun. The Kings literally do nothing right as a franchise, hence their historic playoff drought, and it's sometimes fun to watch the disaster unfold, especially when you know a certain amount of what's going on in the background. And no, I have no faith that things will get better.

Finally, there's the community. That's the community here at The Kings Herald, as well as (most) of the larger community of Kings fans on social media. We have fun, we argue, and we go too far sometimes, but (almost) everyone also knows that we all have what's best for the team in mind. No Leo, you still can't have my number.

Notice how I didn't mention my fandom? I'm honestly not sure of how much of that is left after this year. Whatever's there is certainly hanging on by a thread. Maybe Ziller had it right?

From mthal:

Is there a way for the Kings to shift the chairman/CEO/oversight of the team from Vivek to one of the other owners through some internal voting mechanism? Or is Vivek an outright owner of the team and here to stay unless he sells his share of the team?

Tim: Unfortunately, no. Interestingly enough, Vivek isn't even the majority shareholder of the team. While I don't know exactly how much he owns, it's been reported as less than 20%. So why does Vivek hold complete and total power over this organization?

When the relocation saga was occurring, the Sacramento contingent was desperate to garner approval from David Stern and the NBA Board of Goveronors, hence their famous search for a "whale", preferably one who already had ownership ties. Enter Vivek Ranadive.

As part of his benefits package for joining the ownership group and surrendering his minority stake in the Golden State Warriors, Ranadive was granted the title of controlling governor, which gives him complete control of the franchise, even if a majority of the shareholders disagree with his decision-making. There is one vote that matters in any Sacramento Kings meeting, and that is Ranadive's vote. The only way that Vivek can be removed from power is through some sort of financial misdeed or incompetence, but paying multiple coaches and GMs every season doesn't come close to qualifying. Vivek is here to stay.

From Kangz_Landing:

What is TKH's honest reason why this team has two separate 7-1 stretches, but also is 8-30 outside of those two stretches? I don't believe in the early season reason of €œwe caught injured teams€ because this was the same narrative last year as well. Why has this team been the epitome of Jekyll and Hyde the past 2 seasons? I say this is a coach thing, what say you?

Tim: I wouldn't necessarily say this team has been Jekyll and Hyde. They're just not very good, and not very good teams sometimes find stretches of good basketball. For both of those runs of wins, the Kings played about league average defense, compared to the atrocious play that is typical for this squad. They did, in fact, catch some injury/health and safety protocols luck, but it's also important to keep in mind that just like we get frustrated when the Kings overlook bad teams, good teams sometimes overlook the Kings. We're an easy win on most nights, so on occasion, a couple of solid teams will coast and let the guys get some confidence.

From TheBufferZone:

Which players on our current roster do you expect to still be on the team come Game 1 of the €˜21-€˜22 season?

Tim: De'Aaron Fox, Tyrese Haliburton, Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield (untradeable), Delon Wright, Terence Davis (unfortunately),  Jahmi'us Ramsey, Robert Woodard, and Chimezie Metu.

Marvin Bagley is dumped for little to no value on draft night, Richaun Holmes takes a big offer in free agency, and Justin James is cut, while Hassan Whiteside, Moe Harkless, Damian Jones, Chris Silva, and Kyle Guy are all allowed to walk in free agency.

From eddie41:

Is there something more important for this team than showing up for a game?

Tim: I think it's safe to say that this roster is incredibly immature when it comes to basketball discipline. There are no vocal leaders, no one is willing to get in somebody's face and yell at them for poor play, no one backs each other up, and that's an issue with both the players and the coaching staff. It sounds lame, but this crew doesn't know how to win and they don't understand what it takes to win.

Buddy Hield has been with a losing organization for his entire career, De'Aaron Fox has been with a losing organization for his entire career, Richaun Holmes has been on losing organizations for his entire career, Marvin Bagley has been with a losing organization for his entire career, and Tyrese Haliburton has been with a losing organization for his (very short) entire career. Sure, some of the veterans have been on winners and with champions, but those veterans also don't have the personality to snap these guys out of their habits.

Until we get both players who are willing to show some personality, and a qualified coaching staff, these guys aren't going to develop winning habits, and they're not going to know how to win games.

From Peja:

Right now the only hope I can find is in a fox/haliburton backcourt and luck in the lottery€¦where else can I find hope?

Tim: Luke Walton is probably getting fired in the offseason? That's about all I've got.

From TyrekeFan18

How many games will the Kings win this year, and assuming it's a full season in 2021, how many games will they win next year. Will they make the playoffs?

Tim: My original prediction was 29 wins this year (33-win pace in an 82-game season), but that needs some adjustment with the Fox news. I'm guessing a 1-7 stretch while he's out, followed by a 2-3 finish, putting us at 27 victories and 45 losses, a 30-win pace in a normal season. Great job, Luke!

As far as 2021-2022 is concerned, I think we're 2-3 years away from the playoffs, so I'll roll with 36 wins, assuming they play a full season. The only thing that'll really change that prediction is if Monte cashed out some high-value assets for a major upgrade, which I strongly believe is his goal. If there's a star available this summer, expect the Kings to be linked to those conversations.

From SMF-PDXConnection:

If you were to introduce movies to someone who had never seen a movie before and you had to pick:

A comedy guaranteed to make them laugh

A movie guaranteed to scare them

A movie guaranteed to blow their mind

Tim: Full disclosure - I am not a big movie guy. If you read one of those random lists on social media about the 'Top 100 movies of all-time!", I've probably seen like six of them. I turned off The Godfather, thought Pulp Fiction was just okay, haven't seen Braveheart or Gladiator...you get the point. So, my list is probably going to be lame.

Comedy guaranteed to make them laugh: Stepbrothers

Movie guaranteed to scare them: Quarantine

Movie guaranteed to blow their mind: I don't know if it would blow their mind, but I really enjoyed the twists and turns throughout Knives Out.

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Kosta
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April 24, 2021 8:31 am

Tim: My original prediction was 29 wins this year (33-win pace in an 82-game season), but that needs some adjustment with the Fox news. I’m guessing a 1-7 stretch while he’s out, followed by a 2-3 finish, putting us at 27 victories and 45 losses, a 30-win pace in a normal season. Great job, Luke!

It’s just mind boggling how Luke is allowed to continue his tenure here, while Joerger and Malone were both fired.

Whoever is in charge of coaching decisions–what is the justification for keeping Luke around if you’re serious about winning?

Maybe Luke is a Yes-Man, that nods his head whenever Vivek proposes some dumb shit…?

Monte, please show us that you’re in charge and fire this dude.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kosta
ArcoThunder
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April 24, 2021 8:50 am
Reply to  Kosta

The answer is money. That is why Luke is still around.

ForKingsandCountry
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April 24, 2021 9:45 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I’m pretty sure this is the reason. On the TKH pod with James Ham, he and Jerry both confirmed that over the last year the team had lost a colossal amount of money. I’m guessing Vivek straight up told Monte Luke wasn’t going anywhere this year.

Kosta
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April 24, 2021 9:45 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Yes for sure, that’s likely one of the reasons, if not the main one.

I just hope someone does what is necessary to contend, rather than try not to lose any more money. (Could’ve saved money not firing Malone/Joerger, too.)

If the organization isn’t serious about competing and is content with putting out a crappy product, I hope they lose a lot of fans and lose revenue from ticket sales and merchandise.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kosta
Klam
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April 24, 2021 8:52 am
Reply to  Kosta

Malone and Joerger were fired when the team was turning the corner while Luke runs the team to the ground and gets to stay, lol.

Tankbrigade
April 24, 2021 11:10 am
Reply to  Kosta

Long time reader. First time poster. Thank you for this community (my support group for being a kings fan :))

i have never understood why money is the reason for Luke holding on to his job. Couldn’t we have fired luke and saved money by not doing the cory trade?

RikSmits
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April 24, 2021 12:19 pm
Reply to  Tankbrigade

Welcome! Post more often.

The money reason is stupid and sortsighted. So it is probably the main reason.

We are destroying capital (our players) by this coach teaching them wrong things and not teaching them the right things and them developing bad habits which will have to be unlearned at one point and a blow to their confidence which will have to heal.

And I am not even talking about the young players that we are not developing and making it harder for the GM to evaluate these players and the roster. Or maybe even fans who finally have had enough and don’t buy merc and/or have not renewed their season tickets for next season.

The team retained Luke but furloughed many arena staffers and got rid of some good people on the G-League affiliate. But yeah, we’re “saving” money by retaining Luke.

And would anyone be surprised if he’s still here next season?

ForKingsandCountry
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April 25, 2021 10:29 am
Reply to  RikSmits

All of this is probably accurate Rik and it’s so dumb and shortsighted as you said. At this point I really do think they might bring him back next year so they don’t have to eat two more years of his contract. It’s why it’s probably for the best that this team lose a ton of games to end the season. I think the only way he’s definitely gone is if they lose like 21 of 25 to end the year or something like that.

Bluejohn
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April 25, 2021 7:54 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

My thoughts exactly Rik. Another season with Luke and I’m going to be a very sporadic viewer.

eddie41
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April 24, 2021 8:59 am

Please don’t say we’re gonna have a players only meeting. Please don’t say we’re gonna have a players only meeting. Please don’t say we’re gonna have a players only meeting …

Kosta
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April 24, 2021 9:48 am
Reply to  eddie41

‘Commenter’s Only’ meeting!

No TKH staff allowed!

RikSmits
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April 24, 2021 11:19 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

No comment.

Klam
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April 24, 2021 12:19 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

One dislike from someone from STR who made a TKH sock puppet account. 😉

2018DraftTimeMachine
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April 25, 2021 6:00 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

There are currently more writers than commenters on STR, by quite a margin … 3 to 0.

ArcoThunder
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April 24, 2021 9:14 am

If this team still has both Buddy and Marvin on the roster for next season then the season is over before it gets started, If Luke is still the coach for next season then the season is over before it gets started.

One of Buddy or Marvin HAS TO GO. It really should be both. The trade “return” and desire to get max value is a good sentiment but we can’t wait to get better for sake of hoping their trade value increases with improved play and a shorter contract. Marvin and Buddy are glaring changes that need to be made. You already have replacements that are better for about 30 million dollars less.

You have to move on, it sucks that their value is low. We can’t let their shitty play hold us hostage for the sake of maximizing trade value. At some point you have to move on and for me it is way past due.

There are three things holding this team back from a playoff run next season. Buddy, Marvin and Luke.

leave those three in the dust and insert a new coach with some balls, a high draft pick and one “star free agent” and this team could be in the hunt for a real playoff spot.

Last edited 1 year ago by ArcoThunder
2018DraftTimeMachine
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April 25, 2021 6:02 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

The two down votes are from Marvin and Buddy. Can’t think of why else anyone would disagree with one word of this. Well said.

WizsSox
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April 24, 2021 11:57 am

Curious…who do people see as possible replacement coaches? Any ideas as to the hot names next coaching cycle?

Last edited 1 year ago by WizsSox
SunBreakTheDawn
April 24, 2021 12:51 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Coach Becky Hammon is my dream.

TheGrantNapear
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April 24, 2021 6:33 pm

Lol, try again.

andy_sims
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April 24, 2021 1:05 pm

I have to admit, I don’t get the “why do you stick around” motif that runs through so much of the discourse here. I love basketball, and the Kings are my team. It’d be nice if they won more games, but for the most recent epoch, they don’t do that. What am I going to do, buy League Pass and root for Charlotte or Milwaukee?

The frequent mention of “drama” as it relates to the franchise (and most things in general) is overwhelmingly created by fans with their theories/conspiracies, with an assist to local media, who knows that they can garner clicks by uploading even the most vague, spun-from-whole-cloth bullplop.

I understand how the missteps and unforced errors that this organization makes are exasperating. I see frequent comments to the effect that these issues are causing both mental and physical discomfort among some. If any of that is true, and getting back to the question, what are you still doing here? I mean, masochism is one of the great mental disorders, because it doesn’t hurt anyone other than you, but if you’re not so afflicted, you should take a break.

And I’ll even through in this sweetener: If you’ve been a Kings fan over the past 5-15 years, and you want to go root for another team, and come back when (if?) this team ever becomes competitive, I won’t consider your return to be bandwagon behavior. You’ve earned the right of return!

Fewer people seem to spend time in the game threads these day, but among those there, a significant portion of the comments have nothing to do with the game. They’re about so-and-so is a moron, and this guy sucks, and it again begs the question: Why bother? Spend your free time however you see fit, but this is, even under the most tortured logic, a bizarre choice.

This shit has been difficult. I bitch as much as anyone, although I feel like lately it’s less about the team, and more about the discourse. If you simply have a need to make a comment in a thread about De’Aaron Fox’s improvement about how much Marvin Bagley sucks, or how stupid Randive is, it’s a free country. But if that’s all you have, how can you be happy? How can you derive any joy from the team, or the site?

I’m built differently than most people, and that brings with it a lot of things that aren’t great. But I don’t punch down. If a guy gets hurt during a game, I’m not going to harp endlessly about his father. Even taking a nap or watching TV has got to be a better use of your liimited time on earth than working up righteous anger about something that, in the larger scheme of things, doesn’t matter in any real sense.

I understand what it’s like to have a black cloud over your head, and implementing anger as a defense. But this is basketball. The same as I would say to a player who has non-basketball issues, that the court should be a refuge from everything else, I would say to those of you who proclaim psychic injury related to this team and organization: Give yourself a break. You’ve earned it. If sports or entertainment things are impacting you outside of those contexts, that is unhealthy.

We applaud Kevin Love, Chamique Holdsclaw, DeMar DeRozan and others from all walks of life for acknowledging their troubles, and doing the work to get better. Very often part of the therapy is nothing more than taking a break. It’s not a sign of weakness to walk away from things that end up causing misery or anger.

You have to live in this world, and there is no guarantee that there will be anything else for you once your time is up. Our finite existence is a gift, because it emphasizes how valuable that time truly is. You may not be able to spend it vacationing in Italy or making every moment amazing, but you can set down things that cause pain, and just walk away.

Please, take care of yourselves.

GFunkClassic
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April 24, 2021 3:39 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

comment image&ct=g

Carl
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April 24, 2021 9:13 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

he frequent mention of €œdrama€ as it relates to the franchise (and most things in general) is overwhelmingly created by fans with their theories/conspiracies, with an assist to local media, who knows that they can garner clicks by uploading even the most vague, spun-from-whole-cloth bullplop.

First off, “clicks” aren’t worth anything. The banner ad business is effectively dead today as a way of making money. For a “prove it” guy, you seem to be leaning pretty hard on the “clicks” theory.

Secondly, the “drama” has been reported over and over by local reporters, radio hosts, national reporters and everyone in between. I haven’t counted, but would be willing to be that every national NBA reporter, commenter, TV personality and so on has reported on Kings drama at some point since Vivek took over the team. *All of them.* Even Grant Napear, the Newsmax/OANN/Sean Spicey of the Kings, reported on DeMarcus Cousins drama.

The rest of the post I agree with. It might be a little condescending, but I think the spirit is there, and I wouldn’t criticize that.

Bluejohn
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April 25, 2021 8:11 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It’s just a game. And it is. As a loooooong time fan I stopped really caring about the team when the Maloof’s announced the team would be moving. But if I feel like it’s just a game then it sets me up to not give a damn and if I don’t give a damn about the team then I’m no longer a Kangz fan and truly I’m not there yet and I’m not sure I’ll ever be there no matter how bad they are.

The Kings are my team. I guess that’s all I need to know.

MichaelMack
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April 24, 2021 1:14 pm

Is Buddy untradeable? I don’t think so. Unless there is a team with cap space that completely lacks outside shooters, we would have to take salary back, but there are several sizable contracts that may not be of value to their teams: Kevin Love, Steven Adams, Andrew Wiggins, Damontis Sabonis, Gary Harris, Danilo Gallinari, Terry Rozier, Myles Turner, Ricky Rubio, Eric Bledsoe, Eric Gordon, Davis Bertans, Patrick Beverly, and Markelle Fultz. I think if Monte wants Buddy gone then he will be able to move on. I love Buddy, would love to see Buddy play for a Coach that exercises any sort of discipline and game plan, but with Haliburton being so good, I think we need to spend Buddy’s money on a position of greater need.

rockbottom
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April 24, 2021 4:10 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

Sabonis is not available ! Sadly, the only player on the list that would improve the Kings !

Carl
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April 24, 2021 9:15 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Yeah, Sabonis has been pretty darned good statistically.

ForKingsandCountry
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April 25, 2021 10:30 am
Reply to  Carl

I can’t figure out why that team is so bad. It seems like they’ve got a lot of good individual players but it hasn’t really worked on the court.

TheGrantNapear
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April 24, 2021 6:35 pm
Reply to  MichaelMack

I don’t buy that Buddy is untradeable.
Plenty of teams can use his shooting.

GFunkClassic
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April 24, 2021 3:33 pm

Fox is the best Kings player since….

GFunkClassic
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April 24, 2021 3:40 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Artest?

Last edited 1 year ago by GFunkClassic
RobHessing
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April 24, 2021 4:29 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Cousins.

2018DraftTimeMachine
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April 25, 2021 6:04 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Luka Doncic

TerzoM
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April 24, 2021 5:39 pm

Who knows, The.Information.Bus.COmpany might go undercomment image

Last edited 1 year ago by TerzoM

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